IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-09-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:03:55] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("www.ie7.com It's Unreal TOURNAMENT 2007, learn 2 type ten more letters ffs!")
  2. [00:06:30] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  3. [00:06:31] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  4. [00:22:42] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  5. [00:22:42] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  6. [00:45:38] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@adsl-072-148-043-048.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.5.0.5/undefined]")
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  15. [01:42:59] <jibot> ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
  16. [01:44:08] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
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  19. [01:56:00] <mfbot> [[profile-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=profile-examples&diff=0&oldid=8380 * JohnPanzer * (+42) Contributors -
  20. [01:56:26] <mfbot> [[profile-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=profile-examples&diff=0&oldid=8381 * JohnPanzer * (+18) OpenBC -
  21. [02:18:53] * remi (n=remi@dsl-157-105.aei.ca) Quit ()
  22. [02:19:05] * bewest is having fun in #swig
  23. [02:51:25] <_-> bewest: moving in here. has anyone gotten the other direciton working. drag from iCal/Outlook to a webpage and populate form fields for submission?
  24. [02:53:38] <bewest> yes, to some degree
  25. [02:54:21] <bewest> _-: the popular thing right now is called X2V which converts hcards and things into ical data
  26. [02:54:33] <bewest> there are some people who are writing the reverse: V2X iirc
  27. [02:54:42] <bewest> DanC is working on that
  28. [02:54:48] <_-> my use scenario is moving users to a new XHTML/browser based app
  29. [02:55:02] <_-> and saving them the effort of reentering data
  30. [02:55:33] <_-> and eliminating hte need to match up people, since theyre only dragging it over when the context is already nkown
  31. [02:56:04] <bewest> neat
  32. [02:56:09] <bewest> sounds really interesting
  33. [02:58:13] <_-> i guess they can just reenter phone numbers and email addresses
  34. [02:58:53] <bewest> you might look into windows' live clipboard?
  35. [02:58:55] <_-> unless theres intra-app bidirectional vcard drag'n'drop on osx/windows (ive no idea really)
  36. [02:58:59] <_-> maybe
  37. [02:59:03] <bewest> have you seen it?
  38. [02:59:10] <bewest> it's demoed with hcards
  39. [02:59:22] <bewest> MS seems pretty committed to it
  40. [02:59:29] <_-> cool
  41. [02:59:59] <bewest> they allow you to copy/paste datastructures in between apps... so copy/paste from outlook into IE or Firefox
  42. [03:00:23] <bewest> I imagine if os x doesn't do that you could make a widget available?
  43. [03:00:28] <bewest> dashboard something or other?
  44. [03:00:36] <bewest> otherwise they can just type it :-)
  45. [03:22:17] * marclaporte (n=marclapo@tikiwiki/marclaporte) has left #microformats
  46. [03:50:28] * ajturner (n=ajturner@d14-69-64-67.try.wideopenwest.com) Quit ()
  47. [04:11:15] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
  48. [04:15:53] * marclaporte (n=marclapo@tikiwiki/marclaporte) has joined #microformats
  49. [04:15:53] <jibot> marclaporte is Marc Laporte from Tiki CMS/Groupware
  50. [04:17:25] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable132.120-57-74.mc.videotron.ca) Quit ()
  51. [04:20:05] * tantek (n=tantek@h-67-101-102-63.snfccasy.dynamic.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  52. [04:20:05] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  53. [04:20:27] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  54. [04:52:16] * Hixie (n=ianh@trivini.no) has joined #microformats
  55. [04:52:16] <jibot> Hixie is the iron fist of standards compliance
  56. [04:52:32] * Hixie (n=ianh@trivini.no) Quit (Client Quit)
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  59. [05:20:03] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit ("back soon, no doubt")
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  62. [06:06:00] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Abe103.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
  63. [06:22:29] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  65. [06:23:18] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  66. [06:23:36] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  69. [07:01:10] <mfbot> [[hreview]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=8382 * Andrew * (+172) Implementations -
  70. [07:13:11] * bunny (n=bunny@adsl-84-227-7-205.adslplus.ch) Quit ()
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  72. [07:25:51] * danja (n=danja@host166-220.pool80104.interbusiness.it) has joined #microformats
  73. [07:25:51] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
  74. [07:25:56] * danja (n=danja@host166-220.pool80104.interbusiness.it) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  75. [07:55:28] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host217-42-133-100.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  76. [07:55:29] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
  77. [08:00:37] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  78. [08:00:37] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
  79. [08:14:38] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host217-42-133-100.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
  80. [08:52:49] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=8383 * GdfsGerscczaa * (+19949)
  81. [08:53:49] * ROBOd (n=robod@86.34.246.154) has joined #microformats
  82. [09:03:01] <mfbot> [[Main Page-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=8384 * GdfsGerscczaa * (+19949)
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  91. [10:35:48] <Whiskey_M> 'lo
  92. [10:36:21] <jibot> WildFox is Mr. KDOM. Co-author of kdom, ksvg and kcanvas.
  93. [10:41:16] * danja (n=danja@host85-217.pool80104.interbusiness.it) has joined #microformats
  94. [10:41:16] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
  95. [10:51:52] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
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  105. [12:30:08] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  106. [12:30:39] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host217-42-133-100.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  107. [12:30:39] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
  108. [12:31:33] * remi (n=remi@csf-127.cegep-ste-foy.qc.ca) has joined #microformats
  109. [12:31:33] <jibot> remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
  110. [12:42:49] <marclaporte> salut Rémi!
  111. [12:45:35] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) has joined #microformats
  112. [12:49:36] * ryanlowe (n=chatzill@CPE00045a734098-CM001225d89e7c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
  113. [12:49:36] <jibot> ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
  114. [13:07:21] * Whiskey_M (n=Richard@host-84-9-127-20.bulldogdsl.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  115. [13:16:30] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) has joined #microformats
  116. [13:16:31] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
  117. [13:17:38] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("www.ie7.com It's Unreal TOURNAMENT 2007, learn 2 type ten more letters ffs!")
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  122. [13:54:41] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  123. [14:02:20] * adactio (n=jeremy@host86-135-147-9.range86-135.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
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  127. [14:19:24] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  128. [14:19:24] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
  129. [14:19:40] * ChanServ sets mode +o dglazkov
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  133. [14:30:57] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
  134. [14:31:46] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=8385 * Brickski * (+150) Examples in the wild -
  135. [14:34:22] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=8386 * Brickski * (+26) Examples in the wild -
  136. [14:49:16] * danja (n=danja@host44-220.pool80104.interbusiness.it) has joined #microformats
  137. [14:49:16] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
  138. [14:49:45] * ajturner (n=irc@s233-64-126-217.try.wideopenwest.com) has joined #microformats
  139. [15:14:19] <mfbot> [[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=8387 * Phae * (+0) moving expired events to "recent"
  140. [15:14:46] * remi (n=remi@csf-127.cegep-ste-foy.qc.ca) Quit (Success)
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  142. [15:24:19] * cgriego (n=cgriego@e2.87.5d45.static.theplanet.com) has joined #Microformats
  143. [15:30:06] <mfbot> [[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=8388 * Adactio * (+119) Upcoming -
  144. [15:36:12] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  145. [15:36:12] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  146. [15:43:39] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Abe103.isk.mesh.ad.jp) has joined #microformats
  147. [15:57:12] <mfbot> [[events]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=8389 * Adactio * (+13) Upcoming -
  148. [16:03:26] * cgriego (n=cgriego@e2.87.5d45.static.theplanet.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  150. [16:04:44] <mfbot> [[events/2006-09-08-brighton-microformats-picnic Brighton microformats picnic]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2006-09-08-brighton-microformats-picnic_Brighton_microformats_picnic * Phae * (+183) added a template for event
  151. [16:04:55] <mfbot> [[events/2006-09-08-brighton-microformats-picnic Brighton microformats picnic]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-09-08-brighton-microformats-picnic_Brighton_microformats_picnic&diff=0&oldid=8390 * Phae * (+2) spelling mistake
  152. [16:05:40] * lisppaste4 (n=lisppast@common-lisp.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  153. [16:08:16] <mfbot> [[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=8391 * Phae * (+0) Making link prettier
  154. [16:08:31] * danbri (n=chatzill@host81-155-124-250.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
  155. [16:08:39] * lisppaste4 (n=lisppast@common-lisp.net) has joined #microformats
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  157. [16:09:55] * dglazkov_ (n=dglazkov@adsl-159-167-46.bhm.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  158. [16:10:37] <mfbot> [[events/2006-09-08-brighton-microformats-picnic Brighton microformats picnic]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-09-08-brighton-microformats-picnic_Brighton_microformats_picnic&diff=0&oldid=8392 * Adactio * (+951)
  159. [16:12:08] <mfbot> [[events/2006-09-08-brighton-microformats-picnic Brighton microformats picnic]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-09-08-brighton-microformats-picnic_Brighton_microformats_picnic&diff=0&oldid=0 * Adactio * (+1136) events/2006-09-08-brighton-microformats-picnic Brighton microformats picnic moved to events/2006-09-08-brighton-microformats-picnic
  160. [16:15:53] * Phae (n=Chatuser@212.2.31.157) has joined #microformats
  161. [16:15:53] <jibot> Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
  162. [16:16:11] <Phae> gah, sorry. I'm being a muppet on the wiki. I've given up now.
  163. [16:18:12] <adactio> LOL! I'm being an equal muppet... my first time creating an event.
  164. [16:18:25] <adactio> I think it's all good now: http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2006-09-08-brighton-microformats-picnic
  165. [16:18:37] <adactio> Want to add your name? ;-)
  166. [16:21:33] <Phae> I will in a second.
  167. [16:21:37] <Phae> I'm being told to fix a page first
  168. [16:24:09] <mfbot> [[events/2006-09-08-brighton-microformats-picnic]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-09-08-brighton-microformats-picnic&diff=0&oldid=8393 * Phae * (+37) Attending -
  169. [16:24:16] <Phae> there
  170. [16:24:54] <adactio> Yay!
  171. [16:25:54] <Phae> I didn't realise that you were moving the template I made to the correct page, because I was doing it manually
  172. [16:25:59] <Phae> I didn't notice there was a move option.
  173. [16:26:08] <Phae> So much confusion!
  174. [16:27:01] <dglazkov_> hi adactio
  175. [16:27:17] <trovster> [17:27:17] -ChanServ- You do not have channel operator access to [#dconstruct] :9
  176. [16:27:32] <trovster> adactio: Already added my name ;)
  177. [16:28:00] * valmont (n=chrishol@pdpc/supporter/silver/valmont) has joined #microformats
  178. [16:28:41] <Phae> ah yeah, adactio - hope you dont mind, but drew and I registered the #dconstruct channel
  179. [16:28:44] <Phae> not sure if he told you
  180. [16:28:49] <Phae> I set your name in the access list though
  181. [16:28:51] <adactio> That's grand.
  182. [16:29:35] <adactio> Trevor, I'm not seeing your name on the attendee list. Are you sure you weren't just previewing?
  183. [16:29:37] <dglazkov_> what's d.construct
  184. [16:29:48] <adactio> A conference in Brighton this Friday.
  185. [16:29:49] <Phae> a grassroots web conference in brighton!
  186. [16:30:02] <trovster> Microformats picnic ?
  187. [16:30:05] <Phae> okay. i must be sleepy
  188. [16:30:09] <dglazkov_> the diff btw BarCamp?
  189. [16:30:11] <Phae> time to go home!
  190. [16:30:22] <Phae> catch you guys this evening
  191. [16:30:28] * Phae (n=Chatuser@212.2.31.157) Quit ("Leaving")
  192. [16:30:58] <adactio> Ah, trevor, you're talking about the Upcoming event... sorry, I thought you meant the Wiki page.
  193. [16:33:18] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  196. [16:35:03] <jibot> bewest is curious about emerging standards and works for Alexa.com
  197. [16:41:21] <mfbot> [[events/2006-09-08-brighton-microformats-picnic]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-09-08-brighton-microformats-picnic&diff=0&oldid=8394 * Veeliam * (+71) Attending -
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  204. [17:14:16] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: UTC 02)
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  216. [17:44:23] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
  217. [17:44:39] * ChanServ sets mode +o dglazkov
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  221. [17:54:40] <jibot> Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
  222. [17:54:57] <Phae> hello
  223. [17:55:12] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2407P021.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  226. [18:06:19] <mfbot> [[User:Adactio]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:Adactio * Adactio * (+76)
  227. [18:18:10] * dardarsauce (n=dardarsa@38.99.12.65) has joined #microformats
  228. [18:25:27] * bbieber (i=bbieber@ucommbieber.unl.edu) has joined #microformats
  229. [18:26:36] <bbieber> Hey all... I've been searching all over... is there an eps/psd of the microformats logo available..? I've seen the buttons, but can't find one that fits our site.
  230. [18:31:33] <bbieber> http://events.unl.edu/
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  237. [19:00:52] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  238. [19:00:57] <drewinthehead> greetings microformateers
  239. [19:02:54] <cgriego> howdy
  240. [19:04:13] <drewinthehead> how goes things?
  241. [19:05:07] <cgriego> things go pretty good.
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  245. [19:24:06] <jibot> vmarks is in NC
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  260. [19:55:41] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  261. [19:55:41] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  262. [19:56:03] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  263. [20:00:58] * keithalexander (n=keithale@87.112.79.0.bbplus.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  265. [20:08:48] <Phae> tantek?
  266. [20:09:13] <tantek> hi Phae
  267. [20:09:29] <tantek> so I hear barcamp was a good time for microformats and much more
  268. [20:09:32] <Phae> you're awake. I submitted an article. *poke*
  269. [20:09:35] <Phae> yes. very!
  270. [20:10:17] <drewinthehead> it was awesome, tantek
  271. [20:11:15] <drewinthehead> Phae gave a good starter/overview session, then something on the d.Construct backnetwork (which is all XFN-based) and then i rattled on about parsing
  272. [20:11:40] <_-> haha. english please?
  273. [20:11:41] * _- (n=ix@c-24-91-185-85.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has left #microformats
  274. [20:11:41] <Phae> I'm glad I watched your parsing one btw. I kinda got it, but it solidified it all a bit
  275. [20:11:52] * BenWard (n=BenWard@cpc3-cmbg2-0-0-cust58.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) has joined #microformats
  276. [20:13:11] * tantek sees 77 comments pending in moderation for microformats.org
  277. [20:13:26] <Phae> I'd moderate them for you, but Ryan didn't give me that option.
  278. [20:14:05] * shawn (n=shawn@adsl-70-132-1-153.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) Quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  279. [20:18:33] * remi (n=remi@dsl-147-168.aei.ca) has joined #microformats
  280. [20:18:33] <jibot> remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
  281. [20:23:43] <tantek> Phae, I can't seem to find your post
  282. [20:24:59] <Phae> oh
  283. [20:25:05] <Phae> I saved it
  284. [20:25:10] <Phae> Let me go look
  285. [20:25:43] <Phae> Try http://microformats.org/wordpress/wp-admin/post.php?action=edit&post=90
  286. [20:27:54] <tantek> do you see a "Publish" button at that URL Phae?
  287. [20:28:07] <Phae> nope, i dont have publish rights.
  288. [20:28:19] <tantek> what buttons do you see at the bottom?
  289. [20:28:31] <tantek> after the post editing field
  290. [20:28:43] <Phae> save and continue editing | save
  291. [20:28:56] <Phae> if you go to manage, it's listed about the publish articles
  292. [20:29:02] <Phae> published*
  293. [20:29:25] <tantek> yeah i see it there
  294. [20:29:41] <tantek> odd that there is no workflow for the contributor to indicate a desire to publish, and thus putting it into a queue for moderation
  295. [20:29:48] <Phae> above* I should sit at the desk when typing.
  296. [20:29:55] <Phae> oh. that's... strange?
  297. [20:31:57] <tantek> looks good. fixed one typo: presenentation -> presentation but that's it.
  298. [20:32:22] <Phae> ah, my proof reading skills are dud tonight
  299. [20:32:23] <Phae> cheers
  300. [20:32:30] <tantek> your post is live ;)
  301. [20:32:36] <Phae> yay!
  302. [20:34:19] * drewinthehead thinks 'heroic' and 'rugged' should be added to the definition of microformateer
  303. [20:34:53] <Phae> they're very masculine traits
  304. [20:35:10] <drewinthehead> heroic isn't
  305. [20:35:29] <drewinthehead> "having the characteristics of a hero or heroine; very brave"
  306. [20:36:03] * ROBOd (n=robod@86.34.246.154) Quit ("http://www.robodesign.ro")
  307. [20:36:07] <Phae> whatever. it's rare to decribe a girl as heroic
  308. [20:36:12] <Phae> it's like "handsome"
  309. [20:36:12] <drewinthehead> how about 'strapping' ?
  310. [20:36:15] <Phae> nearly always male
  311. [20:36:18] <Phae> no!
  312. [20:36:22] <Phae> strapping is definitely masculine
  313. [20:36:52] <drewinthehead> hmm
  314. [20:37:18] <drewinthehead> lusty!
  315. [20:37:31] <drewinthehead> "healthy and strong; full of vigor"
  316. [20:37:36] <Phae> lol
  317. [20:39:11] * sheets (n=dsheets@EASTCAMPUS-EIGHT-SEVENTY-NINE.MIT.EDU) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  318. [20:39:33] <drewinthehead> gosh, 60 members again
  319. [20:39:48] <tantek> drew it was at 64 earlier
  320. [20:39:55] <Phae> busy busy
  321. [20:39:56] <drewinthehead> and 59 of them subjected to my inane drivel
  322. [20:40:18] * drewinthehead pledges to behave ;)
  323. [20:40:40] <Phae> that's boring!
  324. [20:40:44] * sheets (n=dsheets@EASTCAMPUS-EIGHT-SEVENTY-NINE.MIT.EDU) has joined #microformats
  325. [20:40:50] <drewinthehead> Phae: i saw a note about an XFN validator on the mashup board at barcamp - do you know anything about it?
  326. [20:40:52] <pnhChris> you're on the wrong side of the pond for post holiday sillyness drew
  327. [20:41:08] <Phae> no. I only saw that into the event
  328. [20:41:15] <Phae> Did you catch who was giving the chat?
  329. [20:41:29] <Phae> late into* the event
  330. [20:41:43] <drewinthehead> i think it was more of a suggested project for the mini mashpit
  331. [20:41:53] <drewinthehead> i wondered if anyone had done so
  332. [20:42:07] <drewinthehead> should be easy to build out of the parts i have lying around here
  333. [20:42:13] <Phae> oh! yes. that's where it was. I didn't hear anything come of it. You'd think adactio would have heard about if it had
  334. [20:42:19] <Phae> with his special uF sensors
  335. [20:42:46] <drewinthehead> pinging adactio
  336. [20:43:07] <drewinthehead> hmm .. negative pong situation
  337. [20:43:39] <drewinthehead> it would actually be easy enough to build in javascript
  338. [20:43:49] <Phae> there's this thing called email.. heard of it?
  339. [20:43:56] <Phae> yeah
  340. [20:43:58] <drewinthehead> get all the links, then get their rel attributes and test for matches
  341. [20:44:06] <Phae> XFN seems like an easy one to do really
  342. [20:44:09] <drewinthehead> then test against common mistakes
  343. [20:44:11] <Phae> it's so nice and simple
  344. [20:44:21] <Phae> yea
  345. [20:44:56] <drewinthehead> and list non-XFN matches for the user to catch anything else
  346. [20:45:41] <drewinthehead> if we discounted other valid µF values of rel, there probably wouldn't be that many values left over
  347. [20:46:34] <Phae> there's like.. 16? or something
  348. [20:46:50] <drewinthehead> XFN values?
  349. [20:47:04] <Phae> yeah. 18
  350. [20:47:10] <drewinthehead> yeah
  351. [20:48:02] <drewinthehead> so if we spotted other values which are commonly used for rel (licence, tag, bookmark etc) then we could present the others for the user to manually verify
  352. [20:48:30] <drewinthehead> i don't think too many people are using rel with totally arbitrary values at the moment. some, but not many
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  354. [20:48:50] <Phae> yeps
  355. [20:49:22] * bunnywabbit_ (n=bunny@adsl-84-227-7-205.adslplus.ch) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  357. [20:50:40] * shawn__ (n=shawn@netblock-68-183-69-197.dslextreme.com) Quit (Client Quit)
  358. [20:51:28] <drewinthehead> related: http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-dev/2006-April/000082.html
  359. [20:51:29] * shawn__ (n=shawn@netblock-68-183-69-197.dslextreme.com) has joined #microformats
  360. [20:51:35] * keithalexander (n=keithale@87.112.79.0.bbplus.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net) has joined #microformats
  361. [20:52:05] <Phae> ooo
  362. [20:53:15] <Phae> i always forget that i can read the dev list without being on it
  363. [20:53:22] <Phae> i ought to
  364. [20:53:41] <drewinthehead> there's not much traffic, but it's interesting when it occurs :)
  365. [20:55:53] <drewinthehead> i think whenever validator discussions start up, they tend to get derailed by the complexity of the checking against class names etc
  366. [20:57:30] <drewinthehead> but a simple rel value checker needn't get bogged down with that and could still be handy
  367. [20:58:07] <Phae> yeah, it seems like a valuable effort to start at least writing validators for specific uFs
  368. [20:58:49] <drewinthehead> at least trying to see how much can be done and prove useful
  369. [20:59:25] <Phae> trying to write something that will validate all the "stable" formats at once is just a bit.. mammoth
  370. [20:59:43] <drewinthehead> or even just one of the class-based formats
  371. [20:59:57] <drewinthehead> but the rel-based elementals are much simpler
  372. [21:00:24] <Phae> yea
  373. [21:00:37] <drewinthehead> ultimately it'll end up being more like an accessibility checker - highlighting things to confirm rather than giving a solid yes or no
  374. [21:00:38] * Phae talks like she knows.
  375. [21:01:25] <drewinthehead> so, when do you think you can have it prototyped?
  376. [21:01:29] <drewinthehead> :D
  377. [21:01:35] <Phae> heh. I'm just theory.
  378. [21:02:15] <drewinthehead> actually, a lot of the effort would be UI
  379. [21:02:16] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host217-42-133-100.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
  380. [21:02:28] <qid> someone call sam ruby and mark pilgrim
  381. [21:02:39] <Phae> UI <3
  382. [21:02:49] <Phae> See. Now you're on my platform again.
  383. [21:02:50] <Phae> The pretty end.
  384. [21:03:02] <drewinthehead> mark pilgrim has already looked at it, qid
  385. [21:03:24] <drewinthehead> qid: http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-dev/2006-April/000083.html
  386. [21:04:24] <drewinthehead> i'll ping adactio and see if anything happened at the weekend, else i'll try and hack something together
  387. [21:04:47] <qid> I wonder if a microformat validator should require valid (X)HTML first
  388. [21:05:10] * keithale1ander (n=keithale@87.112.79.0.bbplus.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net) has joined #microformats
  389. [21:05:18] <drewinthehead> the web requires valid (X)HTML first ;) :P
  390. [21:05:23] <Phae> it would have to check for that first, at least
  391. [21:05:37] <Phae> so it would be an XHTML validator and then a uF one
  392. [21:05:48] * keithalexander (n=keithale@87.112.79.0.bbplus.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  393. [21:06:39] <drewinthehead> the usual practise is to patch up a document into XHTML for parsing with an XML parser
  394. [21:06:48] <drewinthehead> but not necessarily validating the XHTML
  395. [21:07:02] <drewinthehead> the only requirement would be wellformedness
  396. [21:07:09] <Phae> really? I think it would be good to make people fix their XHTML, otherwise it might be misleading
  397. [21:07:33] <qid> is XHTML explicity required or is HTML 4 still ok?
  398. [21:07:37] <Phae> the validator would say yea, your uF is write, even though the XHTML isn't
  399. [21:07:41] <Phae> HTML 4 is cool too
  400. [21:07:45] <Phae> strict is the important bit
  401. [21:07:47] <qid> because XHTML has its own problems
  402. [21:07:51] * remi (n=remi@dsl-147-168.aei.ca) Quit (Connection timed out)
  403. [21:07:56] <drewinthehead> XHTML is lovely.
  404. [21:08:02] <drewinthehead> (but let's no go there)
  405. [21:08:16] <Phae> and if it says the uF is right, and the XHTML isn't, then the author may find parsers/tools still won't work
  406. [21:08:18] * bewest assumes that notating (X)HTML means the X is optional
  407. [21:08:25] <qid> well, let me rephrase that
  408. [21:08:25] <Phae> yeah, i should have used the brackets
  409. [21:08:27] <Phae> I'm being lazy
  410. [21:08:32] <bewest> Phae: that's always the case, though
  411. [21:08:37] <qid> XHTML is great, XHTML over HTTP is a pain
  412. [21:08:45] <bewest> speaking of which
  413. [21:08:50] <drewinthehead> Phae is correct - the strict is the most important thing
  414. [21:09:08] <bewest> anyone using XHTML for data, not for necessarily publishable things?
  415. [21:09:15] <bewest> as opposed to POX?
  416. [21:09:27] * jcgregorio (i=chatzill@nat/ibm/x-df41ae4e229a4ee2) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.5.0.5/undefined]")
  417. [21:09:40] <keithale1ander> I used it once for storing data
  418. [21:09:49] <bewest> I recently have come up with a couple of solutions using XHTML instead of POX
  419. [21:09:55] <Phae> Who on earth would want to write something and not publish it?! :P
  420. [21:10:10] <bewest> it meets with many frowns and sometimes shouting
  421. [21:10:13] <bewest> "harder to validate"
  422. [21:10:18] <bewest> or even "impossible to validate"
  423. [21:10:27] <bewest> Phae: not necessarily writing..
  424. [21:10:29] <bewest> Phae: just plain data
  425. [21:10:33] <bewest> application data
  426. [21:10:33] * Phae was kidding.
  427. [21:10:35] <bewest> hehe
  428. [21:10:53] <bewest> especially when it's only consumed internally
  429. [21:10:58] <Phae> yeah
  430. [21:11:03] <Phae> I know there are cases.
  431. [21:11:14] <bewest> I mean has anyone seriously tried this?
  432. [21:11:28] * Harry (n=advocati@82.153.37.36) Quit (Client Quit)
  433. [21:11:31] <bewest> cause then I have to explain why I think inventing proprietary POX is a Bad Thing
  434. [21:11:36] <bewest> and it's so difficult
  435. [21:11:53] <bewest> and it does make it virtually impossible to validate
  436. [21:12:05] <bewest> with POX you can make a schema
  437. [21:12:11] <bewest> either it's valid or it isn't
  438. [21:12:26] <bewest> sorry to get sidetracked...
  439. [21:12:48] <Phae> it's okay
  440. [21:13:20] <bewest> just curious if anyone else is coming up with similar results
  441. [21:14:05] * danbri_ (n=chatzill@host81-155-124-250.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  442. [21:14:11] <bewest> in fact, I designed this one xhtml document to help transform the parameters of one system into parameters a second system expects
  443. [21:14:22] <bewest> as a kind of mapping document
  444. [21:14:32] <bewest> it did not go over well
  445. [21:14:38] <bewest> everyone else wanted POX
  446. [21:14:59] <Phae> I think though that validators are going to be used by people who may not be aware of how important the strictness of the (X)HTML is.
  447. [21:15:08] * vmarks (n=vmarks@cpe-065-190-165-181.nc.res.rr.com) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  448. [21:15:14] <Phae> So if we can help them to understand that, with also including the XHTML errors, if there are anyway
  449. [21:15:16] <Phae> any*
  450. [21:15:23] <Phae> Would be a Good Thing. :P
  451. [21:15:41] * vmarks (n=vmarks@cpe-065-190-165-181.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  452. [21:16:51] <bewest> yeah, but I'm talking specifically about application/machine data represented as XOXO
  453. [21:17:03] <bewest> like SQL2XOXO
  454. [21:17:25] <Phae> I know. I was sneakily dragging the convo back up 30 lines.
  455. [21:17:34] <bewest> in that case
  456. [21:17:48] <Phae> no, it's cool. I'm just not knowledgable to add anything to your discussion.
  457. [21:17:51] <bewest> I concur
  458. [21:17:54] * Phae waits for someone else to step in.
  459. [21:18:54] <drewinthehead> i'll see how far i can get with that on the bus tomorrow
  460. [21:18:57] <drewinthehead> a bus hack
  461. [21:19:31] * cori[s] (n=cori[s]@pdpc/supporter/active/CoriS) has joined #microformats
  462. [21:19:52] <Phae> Okay. If you get it spitting out something useful, I'll think of the UI.
  463. [21:20:06] <bewest> Phae: you a UI person?
  464. [21:20:32] <Phae> Somewhat.
  465. [21:20:37] <drewinthehead> yeah - i'll interface with the document, you can interface with the user :)
  466. [21:20:48] <Phae> I do accessibility and usability testing, so I have a good grasp.
  467. [21:21:24] <bewest> ooOOOoo
  468. [21:21:30] <bewest> where?
  469. [21:21:52] <bewest> is that your primary thing?
  470. [21:22:29] <Phae> Sort of. I got my job because I know how to do accessibility audits. Most of my day I'm doing CSS and things though, because well.. paperwork is dull.
  471. [21:23:04] <Phae> I work for a design and marketing company, but it's mostly B2B
  472. [21:23:11] <Phae> So no one sees it for the most part
  473. [21:25:27] * bewest is interested in usability/hci among other things but has no formal training
  474. [21:25:53] <Phae> I did some HCI during my degree
  475. [21:26:29] <Phae> I do like it. It's like, the practical side of design.
  476. [21:26:47] * ryanlowe (n=chatzill@CPE00045a734098-CM001225d89e7c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/2006072814]")
  477. [21:30:24] <bewest> I like trying to apply as many concepts as possible while designing user interfaces
  478. [21:30:35] <bewest> but I am very bad about testing
  479. [21:30:58] * bewest still believes he can empathize with prospective users well enough to not do much testing
  480. [21:31:11] <bewest> and it's hard to do testing
  481. [21:31:24] <Phae> Yeah, that's a mistake sometimes. Don't try to apply "concepts". It's mostly rubbish. I try to design things my mother could work.
  482. [21:32:45] <bewest> yeah, that's what I mean by empathize though
  483. [21:33:13] <Phae> You probably are doing a good job.
  484. [21:33:23] <bewest> well
  485. [21:33:35] <bewest> I frequently know that I'm building something that people are going to have trouble with
  486. [21:33:53] <bewest> but due to either time contraints or resources or knowledge I build it anyway
  487. [21:34:32] <bewest> one of my hobbies to walk through the electronics aisle at stores and figure out which products are the easiest to use
  488. [21:34:44] <bewest> and why
  489. [21:34:54] <Phae> heh
  490. [21:35:02] <bewest> a surprising number of electronics have problems with basic things... eject and power buttons
  491. [21:35:06] <dardarsauce> intuitive design is suprirsingly sparse
  492. [21:35:22] <bewest> when writely was new, I tried it out
  493. [21:35:28] <bewest> then watched my mom try it out
  494. [21:35:32] <bewest> she had such a hard time
  495. [21:35:37] <bewest> I wrote a long email to the writely team
  496. [21:35:51] <dardarsauce> the mom-test is crucial for ui design :)
  497. [21:35:53] <bewest> then they wanted to know more, so I wrote them an even longer email
  498. [21:36:06] <bewest> I'm not sure if it made any difference :|
  499. [21:36:23] <Phae> ibet the people working on that though felt just like oyu
  500. [21:36:40] <Phae> when you said you are constrained by various factors
  501. [21:36:47] <bewest> yeah, maybe
  502. [21:37:05] <Phae> i'm not saying it's an excuse, but its a common problem
  503. [21:37:06] <bewest> still thought it was ironic since they bragged about getting usability awards for quicken or whatever
  504. [21:37:15] <Phae> i spend my life arguing designs
  505. [21:37:18] <dardarsauce> the toughest thing with UI is breaking the typical mold set by your predecessors
  506. [21:37:20] <Phae> but if the ceo likes it
  507. [21:37:22] <Phae> the ceo gets it
  508. [21:37:40] <bewest> I'm starting a new project
  509. [21:37:56] <bewest> the whole existence of the project is based around the fact that the CEO wants it
  510. [21:38:42] * shawn__ (n=shawn@netblock-68-183-69-197.dslextreme.com) Quit (Connection timed out)
  511. [21:38:46] * bewest reads lots of usability stuff and orthogonal materials
  512. [21:38:51] <bewest> how the mind works, by pinker
  513. [21:38:55] <bewest> Tufte's books
  514. [21:39:01] <bewest> evolution of technology
  515. [21:39:33] <dardarsauce> you can learn a lot by watching girls shop for shoes :)
  516. [21:39:37] <bewest> oh?
  517. [21:39:50] <Phae> lol. what
  518. [21:39:51] <dardarsauce> they go through a bunch of variables when choosing
  519. [21:39:54] <dardarsauce> i'm serious :)
  520. [21:40:06] * Phae should remind everyone of the status of her gender at this point.
  521. [21:40:08] * jrodgers (n=jrodgers@CPE000d93221ae3-CM0012c99f023e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
  522. [21:40:10] * shawn__ (n=shawn@netblock-68-183-69-197.dslextreme.com) has joined #microformats
  523. [21:40:13] <dardarsauce> i've stood idle while shopping enough to learn to observe every environment i'm in
  524. [21:40:18] <dardarsauce> oh :)
  525. [21:40:20] <dardarsauce> hi
  526. [21:40:21] <dardarsauce> heh
  527. [21:40:21] <Phae> :P
  528. [21:41:01] <Phae> It's fine. Go on.
  529. [21:41:11] <dardarsauce> in any case
  530. [21:41:39] <dardarsauce> style in general is a hard thing to look at objectively
  531. [21:42:01] <dardarsauce> but watching a girl shop, i'll just use hte name jane as an example
  532. [21:42:10] <dardarsauce> jane has a huge closet full of x outfits
  533. [21:42:19] <bewest> I think I'd be too distracted by the girls :-)
  534. [21:42:45] <dardarsauce> and every shoe she looks at has to fit some outfit, or combination of those outfits
  535. [21:43:01] <dardarsauce> and add on the different styles of shoes, and the comfort factor
  536. [21:43:02] <dardarsauce> colors
  537. [21:43:09] <dardarsauce> patterns
  538. [21:43:11] <dardarsauce> material
  539. [21:43:14] <dardarsauce> yeah
  540. [21:43:18] <dardarsauce> i dont know hwere i'm going
  541. [21:43:18] <dardarsauce> but
  542. [21:43:32] <bewest> there is a ##usability channel
  543. [21:43:51] <bewest> only a few people in it
  544. [21:43:51] <dardarsauce> i learn a lot from watching girls' shop (or maybe i'm just more bored than i want to admit i am while waiting at the mall with said girl)
  545. [21:43:56] <Phae> I think there is some merit in saying women might just be good at this kind of thing. The few other geek girls I've met seem to be really tuned on to the accessibiliy/usability areas
  546. [21:43:56] <bewest> it's only existed for a few months
  547. [21:44:41] <bewest> I once spent a lot of effort into a menuing system
  548. [21:44:48] <dardarsauce> there should be some harmony on how things look/feel
  549. [21:44:56] <bewest> that I thought would have high affordance, and very monotonous/consistent
  550. [21:45:13] <bewest> and then I realized that the heirarchy made it impossible to get the interesting features quickly :-(
  551. [21:45:17] <bewest> still don't know what to do about it
  552. [21:45:18] <dardarsauce> including web ui
  553. [21:46:06] <dardarsauce> and women look for that harmony while they shop, and are able to visualize it, so yeah, i think i came full circle with my blurb
  554. [21:46:15] <dardarsauce> or something :)
  555. [21:46:37] <Phae> :0
  556. [21:46:41] <Phae> :)
  557. [21:46:42] <Phae> well done
  558. [21:47:06] <dardarsauce> most of the active members on colourlovers.com are female heh, and they rock some awesome palettes
  559. [21:47:42] <dardarsauce> and colors play into UI tremendously imo
  560. [21:48:48] <dardarsauce> nothings worse than a harsh color scheme, you become subconsciously detracted from the ui before you even start using it
  561. [21:48:54] <dardarsauce> harsh/bad
  562. [21:49:46] <Phae> yeah
  563. [21:51:20] <dardarsauce> i'm glad dhtml/ajax/flash is now allowing us to emulate any kind of interface, just too many people are overdoing it
  564. [21:51:52] <dardarsauce> and losing track of the purpose of UI, ie to make using apps easier, not infinitely more complicated and flashy
  565. [21:54:07] <dardarsauce> so yeah, bewest, building great ui is hard and there's never enough time to refine it to perfection :)
  566. [21:55:27] <Phae> I need to say what the advantages of using microformats are without using technical terms.
  567. [21:56:43] <drewinthehead> microformats are sexy. 'nuff said.
  568. [21:56:49] <Phae> heh
  569. [21:57:37] <Phae> oh tough tough
  570. [21:57:47] <Phae> I don't know what's a properly technical term these days
  571. [22:00:04] <drewinthehead> the important difference is that the information on a page can be be understood as the type of information it is - not just meaningless words
  572. [22:00:18] <drewinthehead> so an address can be read as an address etc
  573. [22:01:04] <drewinthehead> i think that's the crux of it in non-techy terms
  574. [22:01:15] <bbieber> Yeah, provides additional context to the data on a page.
  575. [22:01:33] <Phae> yeah...
  576. [22:01:50] * drewinthehead finds it very difficult to not sound patronising
  577. [22:02:01] <dardarsauce> from every viewer of the page, whether in their browser or at the code level
  578. [22:02:29] <Phae> I know. nicepaul asked me for a couple lines ot explain the advantage, that didnt use technical terms.
  579. [22:03:44] <Phae> Microformats are advantageous because they offer a simple way to add extra meaning to a document that allows the information contained within to be understood for what it is (such as an address) by both humans and machines.
  580. [22:04:07] <bbieber> .... and they're sexy.
  581. [22:04:15] <Phae> and they're sexy.
  582. [22:04:20] <Phae> microformateers... are sexy.
  583. [22:04:23] <drewinthehead> very sexy!
  584. [22:04:25] <drewinthehead> night!
  585. [22:04:26] <Phae> That's what should be in the glossary
  586. [22:04:26] <bbieber> :-) I think thats good.
  587. [22:04:34] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit ("back soon, no doubt")
  588. [22:04:34] <Phae> okay. cheers guys.
  589. [22:05:38] * bunnywabbit_ (n=bunny@adsl-84-227-7-205.adslplus.ch) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  590. [22:10:29] <Phae> alright well, I should go to sleep now too, so I'll catch ya later. night!
  591. [22:10:38] * Phae (n=phae@bb-87-80-218-92.ukonline.co.uk) Quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22")
  592. [22:10:55] * bunnywabbit_ (n=bunny@adsl-84-227-135-188.adslplus.ch) has joined #microformats
  593. [22:12:05] * vmarks (n=vmarks@cpe-065-190-165-181.nc.res.rr.com) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  594. [22:22:27] * ajturner (n=irc@s233-64-126-217.try.wideopenwest.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  595. [22:23:03] <bewest> we have a glossary?
  596. [22:25:44] * vmarks (n=vmarks@cpe-065-190-165-181.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  597. [22:25:44] <jibot> vmarks is in NC
  598. [22:27:56] * bbieber (i=bbieber@ucommbieber.unl.edu) Quit ()
  599. [22:38:43] <dardarsauce> bewest: http://microformats.org/wiki/glossary
  600. [22:41:15] <bewest> ooOOooo
  601. [22:43:11] <dardarsauce> pretty extensive huh
  602. [23:07:48] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) Quit ()
  603. [23:09:01] * remi (n=remi@dsl-142-192.aei.ca) has joined #microformats
  604. [23:09:01] <jibot> remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
  605. [23:11:30] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.1/2006012608]")
  606. [23:11:32] * BenWard (n=BenWard@cpc3-cmbg2-0-0-cust58.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) Quit ()
  607. [23:17:18] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  608. [23:29:18] * jrodgers (n=jrodgers@CPE000d93221ae3-CM0012c99f023e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit ()
  609. [23:46:48] * danja (n=danja@host44-220.pool80104.interbusiness.it) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  610. [23:55:27] * cgriego (n=cgriego@64.213.47.252) has joined #Microformats
  611. [23:55:28] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com

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