IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-09-22
Timestamps are in UTC.
- [00:07:18] * ajturner (n=ajturner@d14-69-64-67.try.wideopenwest.com) has joined #microformats
- [00:07:19] <jibot>
ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com
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- [00:20:25] <veeliam>
?karma
- [00:20:25] <jibot>
Karma Dump available at: http://an9.org/~jibot
- [00:34:50] * remi (n=remi@dsl-155-147.aei.ca) has joined #microformats
- [00:34:50] <jibot>
remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
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- [00:53:33] <veeliam>
Howdy folks! I'm looking for that feeds.technorati thing that you put on your site and it goes to technorati and it downloads/converts hCard to vCard onto your personal computer.
- [00:53:44] <veeliam>
where did i see that...?
- [00:54:31] <KevinMarks>
lots of places you might have seen it
- [00:54:35] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@adsl-072-148-043-048.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
- [00:55:25] <veeliam>
yea! i know. i went to technorati's site and found the form where you input a url and it'll just do it for you.
- [00:55:34] <KevinMarks>
cool
- [01:00:48] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Aav125.isk.mesh.ad.jp) has joined #microformats
- [01:04:46] <veeliam>
But, i'm trying to figure out how to put that link in the site without the visitor going to technorati's site
- [01:05:25] <KevinMarks>
well, a direct link works
- [01:05:40] <KevinMarks>
webcal://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://epeus.blogspot.com is what I use to get an iCal subscription on mine
- [01:06:05] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
- [01:09:01] <veeliam>
so in your case it's important to put the webcal instead of http, right?
- [01:11:39] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
- [01:12:41] <veeliam>
so does this look good: http://feeds.technorati.com/contacts/http://yadda.yadda
- [01:13:18] <veeliam>
what i'm asking is, is this the "standard way" of doing this?
- [01:13:39] <KevinMarks>
yes
- [01:16:00] <veeliam>
thank you kevin
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- [02:08:46] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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- [02:15:48] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
- [02:40:44] <mfbot>
[[currency-formats]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/currency-formats * ScottReynen * (+289) Created with ISO 4217
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- [06:26:25] * tantek (n=tantek@65.223.8.130) has joined #microformats
- [06:26:25] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [07:07:10] * Whiskey_M (n=Richard@host-84-9-127-20.bulldogdsl.com) has joined #microformats
- [07:07:16] <Whiskey_M>
'lo
- [07:18:53] * vant_ (n=vant@FLH1Aav125.isk.mesh.ad.jp) has joined #microformats
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- [07:51:56] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
- [07:51:56] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [07:52:47] <Whiskey_M>
morning tantek :)
- [08:01:42] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host217-42-133-100.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
- [08:01:42] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
- [08:01:43] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
- [08:01:44] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
- [08:02:31] <tantek>
morning Whiskey_M
- [08:03:57] * drewinthehead (i=mclellan@nat/yahoo/x-33f433b94b7f0b19) has joined #microformats
- [08:03:57] <jibot>
drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
- [08:05:11] <Whiskey_M>
the UK is waking up ;-) morning all - how goes?
- [08:05:19] * cgriego (n=cgriego@e2.87.5d45.static.theplanet.com) Quit ()
- [08:13:04] <mfbot>
[[currency-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-formats&diff=0&oldid=8747 * AndyMabbett * (-2) ]
- [08:14:05] <mfbot>
[[currency-formats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-formats&diff=0&oldid=8748 * AndyMabbett * (+13) tyops
- [08:15:53] <trovster>
Nah, I usually 'wake up' around never!
- [08:16:49] <drewinthehead>
morning morning
- [08:16:56] * drewinthehead needs coffee and toast.
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- [08:28:46] * drewinthehead has coffee and a bacon and egg muffin
- [08:35:19] * BenWard (n=BenWard@host81-151-112-177.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
- [08:35:19] <jibot>
BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk (+0000/+0100 GMT)
- [08:37:38] <drewinthehead>
morning BenWard
- [08:37:44] <BenWard>
Morning Drew
- [08:37:49] <drewinthehead>
how goes?
- [08:38:04] <BenWard>
Not bad thanks. First in the office again, despite being half an hour late. mmmmStartups.
- [08:38:41] <drewinthehead>
this place seems to run 24/7
- [08:38:43] <BenWard>
Therefore I shall catch up with µf-discuss and then return to the more mundane task of database implementation.
- [08:38:53] <drewinthehead>
mmmm databases :)
- [08:39:39] <drewinthehead>
relational database management systems these days ... i remember when all this were nowt but fields.
- [08:39:46] <BenWard>
It's quite… large. And the list of views I need to create for it seems to grow rather than shrink. Ah well, my hope is to have it mostly done by end of day so I can do something more fun on Monday :)
- [08:39:48] <BenWard>
Ha!
- [08:40:08] <drewinthehead>
sql server 2005?
- [08:41:24] <BenWard>
Yeah.
- [08:42:11] <drewinthehead>
nice. i quite like sql server.
- [08:42:23] <drewinthehead>
it's the tools i dislike
- [08:42:36] <BenWard>
Yeah, this is the first time I've really used 2K5. Used 2000 every day when I worked with Steve at FSC.
- [08:43:46] <BenWard>
Actually gotta say, SQL Server Management Studio that comes with 2005 (replacing Query Analyser and Enterprise Manager) is such a huge improvement. It's many, many orders of magnitude better than what they had before
- [08:44:00] <drewinthehead>
yes, i've never used 2005, but used 2000 for years, and before that v7
- [08:44:05] <drewinthehead>
that's what i was hoping for
- [08:44:18] <drewinthehead>
i should check it out
- [08:46:10] <BenWard>
I think it's built on the same UI core as the current Visual Studios, so it's rather more robust (tabbed UI for queries/table editing/everything).
- [08:47:37] <drewinthehead>
better than the old everything-is-modal model where you end up running multiple instances of both Query Analyser and Enterprise Manager
- [08:48:44] <drewinthehead>
we'll be sent to #sqlserverfanbois any moment
- [08:51:30] <BenWard>
I hated Enterprise Manager so much. I don't know the name of the Windows framework it was built on, but it was the same as one of the generic ‘management console’ kind of set-ups used for simple stuff like the Computer Management app. You'd think for a piece of software they're selling for £10K they'd produce something dedicated to the task…
- [08:53:04] <drewinthehead>
the worst thing is how you have to edit your stored procs in a tiny modal dialogue box ... you have to then be running a second instance of EM to reference your table structures.
- [08:53:39] <BenWard>
Oh God, yeah. And the way it didn't have any kind of intelligent error highlighting: Just an alert box when you tried to save it.
- [08:54:20] <BenWard>
And if the error was because you'd forgotten the name of your field, God help you because you couldn't switch back to the table view to double check.
- [08:57:16] <drewinthehead>
you have to select the whole thing, copy to the clipboard, close the window, check, open it again, paste back in your changes and make the edit
- [08:57:57] <drewinthehead>
oh, and when you create and save a new SP it errors telling you it already exists. grrr
- [08:58:18] <BenWard>
Oh God, yes.
- [08:58:58] <BenWard>
At what point did the SQL Server team lose so much life force to say ‘yeah, that'll do’?
- [09:02:06] <drewinthehead>
the moment someone made them work under fluorescent lighting, i guess
- [09:03:24] <drewinthehead>
upcoming.org have redesigned the watching/attending lists again
- [09:04:38] <trovster>
Now they look like someones mock up ;)
- [09:08:13] <BenWard>
That's cool. I remember seeing Andy Baio's comment when that mock-up emerge. Paraphrasing, it was along the lines of ‘That's much better, we'll do that, give me a sec…’
- [09:08:42] <mfbot>
[[mars-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mars-examples&diff=0&oldid=8749 * AndyMabbett * (+156) another example; sorting
- [09:09:27] * BenWard starts to wonder when his co-workers are going to arrive today…
- [09:12:24] <mfbot>
[[mars-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mars-examples&diff=0&oldid=8750 * AndyMabbett * (+94) quote useage
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- [09:19:35] <mfbot>
[[mars-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mars-examples&diff=0&oldid=8751 * AndyMabbett * (+96) another quote
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- [09:20:16] <jibot>
bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
- [09:22:45] * bergie (n=bergie@80.248.161.234) has joined #microformats
- [09:22:45] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
- [09:27:16] <mfbot>
[[mars-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mars-examples&diff=0&oldid=8752 * AndyMabbett * (+52) fmt
- [09:27:21] * bengee (n=bengee@52.194-78-194.adsl-fix.skynet.be) Quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
- [09:28:32] <mfbot>
[[mars-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mars-examples&diff=0&oldid=8753 * AndyMabbett * (-1) sp.
- [09:33:35] * drewinthehead has made the 'close' icon in rel-lint much bolder, due to popular request.
- [09:35:43] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=8754 * AndyMabbett * (+95) Wikipedia
- [09:36:44] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=8755 * AndyMabbett * (-7) fmt
- [09:40:55] <mfbot>
[[geo]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=8756 * AndyMabbett * (+76) Wikipedia article on GeoTagging
- [09:44:16] <mfbot>
[[geo]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=8757 * AndyMabbett * (-45) rm. redundant sub-heading
- [09:49:53] <mfbot>
[[geo]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=8758 * AndyMabbett * (+0) sp.
- [09:52:28] * bengee (n=bengee@52.194-78-194.adsl-fix.skynet.be) has joined #microformats
- [09:52:28] <jibot>
bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
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- [11:28:44] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
- [11:39:25] * drewinthehead is trying to get his head around rel vs rev for votelinks
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- [11:42:19] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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- [11:49:33] * drewinthehead concludes that he doesn't get the subtleties of the rel vs rev argument for votelinks, so just accepts it.
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- [11:51:23] <briansuda>
rev and rel are directional
- [11:53:45] <drewinthehead>
yeah, and i've read the FAQ
- [11:54:00] <drewinthehead>
the words are going in, but not computing
- [11:54:04] <drewinthehead>
it's Friday ;)
- [11:54:32] <drewinthehead>
i'm wondering whether to check for votelinks in rel-lint and flag that they should be using the rev attribute
- [11:55:34] <briansuda>
that's a good idea
- [11:58:46] * remi (n=remi@csf-127.cegep-ste-foy.qc.ca) has joined #microformats
- [11:58:46] <jibot>
remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
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- [12:17:30] <jibot>
bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
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- [12:23:18] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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- [12:28:07] <pnhChris>
if anyone was paying attention when i asked about dropping type from an card tell value seems like it gets through the parsers (x2v, hkit, tails) just fine
- [12:28:22] <drewinthehead>
yay
- [12:28:41] <drewinthehead>
we rock
- [12:29:57] * bengee (n=bengee@52.194-78-194.adsl-fix.skynet.be) has joined #microformats
- [12:29:57] <jibot>
bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
- [12:36:19] <drewinthehead>
i've just been looking at the Luna and Mars stuff ... i shouldn't these be encompassed within geo? (type/value, default type of Earth)
- [12:38:03] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=8759 * John Allsopp * (+42) Exploratory Discussions -
- [12:39:29] <mfbot>
[[tagcloud-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/tagcloud-examples * John Allsopp * (+36)
- [12:41:26] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=8760 * John Allsopp * (+54) Exploratory Discussions -
- [12:42:02] <mfbot>
[[tagcloud-brainstorming]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/tagcloud-brainstorming * John Allsopp * (+55)
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- [12:46:42] <pnhChris>
i haven't looked at whether is possible to extent geo like that parsing wise.. but i did raise the question on list myself
- [12:46:53] <pnhChris>
seems that would be the most logical direction
- [12:47:36] <pnhChris>
(says the outsider)
- [12:47:58] <mfbot>
[[luna-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=luna-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8761 * DrewMcLellan * (+625) Comments regarding reusing geo
- [12:48:32] <drewinthehead>
seems daft to have multiple formats that do the same thing for different lumps of rock
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- [12:50:10] <briansuda>
pnhChris, what do you want to extend in geo?
- [12:50:23] <briansuda>
ah, where it was from
- [12:50:30] <briansuda>
which terrafirma that is
- [12:50:32] <drewinthehead>
right
- [12:50:38] <drewinthehead>
type/value would work
- [12:50:50] <drewinthehead>
default type is Earth, which gives us compatibility
- [12:50:57] <briansuda>
you wouldn't need VALUE
- [12:51:04] <drewinthehead>
value is the co-ord
- [12:51:10] <briansuda>
the value is already in the lat/long or the @title
- [12:51:19] <briansuda>
you would just need an optional type
- [12:51:24] <briansuda>
and it is assumed to be EARTH
- [12:51:28] <drewinthehead>
right
- [12:51:43] <briansuda>
as cool as mapping other places is, i'm not sure it is practical
- [12:51:45] <drewinthehead>
VALUE is there, but implicit
- [12:52:12] <drewinthehead>
the list of examples is somewhat brief :)
- [12:52:45] <briansuda>
well, you could actually use value within lat/long <span class="latitude">3 steps south is <span class="value">12.435678</span></span>
- [12:52:47] <ajturner>
I don't see why mapping other places is 'inpractical'
- [12:53:10] <briansuda>
not impractical, but if i am exporting data, what "consumer" apps can use it?
- [12:53:46] <briansuda>
just saying, i have limited cycles, if i spend a day writting code, who would use it, and where can i get data.
- [12:54:01] <ajturner>
just so I understand, the question is whether it should be possible to specify another "body" than Earth? (Mars, Moon, SecondLife)
- [12:54:24] <briansuda>
not sure much SL, because it doesn't use LAT/LON, but yes basically
- [12:54:50] <ajturner>
well, this is a q that came up in the Geo-community for doing mapping tiles
- [12:55:16] <ajturner>
for SL, and non-lat/lon worlds the answer was posed to be do a mapping from SL coords to lat/lon coords
- [12:55:23] <ajturner>
I think that kind of stinks, but that was the proposition
- [12:56:05] <ajturner>
anyways, maybe some option "reference frame" would be nice? Could use rel
- [12:56:14] <ajturner>
rel='wgs84' or rel='earth'
- [12:56:20] <ajturner>
rel='mars', rel='secondlife'
- [12:56:29] <ajturner>
or maybe I'm completely abusing the system
- [12:56:48] <briansuda>
yes, but with rel that needs to be a link to something eg maps.google.com
- [12:57:14] <briansuda>
the interesting thing about SL and WoW is that their worlds are indeed flat.
- [12:57:15] <ajturner>
rel='placetime.com/geopoint/wgs84/'
- [12:57:21] <ajturner>
well, for now they are
- [12:57:22] <ajturner>
:)
- [12:57:34] <ajturner>
would be neat to see them use some alternate 3-d spaces
- [12:57:38] <ajturner>
but I digress
- [12:57:43] <briansuda>
true, no one has tried to sail around it yet
- [12:57:51] <ajturner>
right, so WoW and SL are simple Eulerian cartesian
- [12:58:08] <ajturner>
I bet they've "tried"
- [12:58:40] <briansuda>
it is hard to make a 0,0 centre when you are expanding your world outwards randomly
- [12:58:45] <ajturner>
anyways, thinking say even within the next 5 years, people may want to reference lander locations on Moon/Mars
- [12:58:56] * sheets (n=dsheets@EASTCAMPUS-SIX-O-EIGHT.MIT.EDU) has joined #microformats
- [12:59:00] <briansuda>
it is not an even growth on all sides in all directions, they bolt on new land one squre at a time
- [12:59:08] <ajturner>
not really, if 0,0 center is fixed to be the first tile, then you can expand to MAX_INT, -MAX_INT
- [12:59:28] <terrell>
and there's no incentive to 'limit' it by making it a real sphere
- [12:59:30] <ajturner>
and then maybe tile even that by doing deeper coordinate space (Major Tiles -> Minor Tiles)
- [12:59:37] <briansuda>
i would agree that mapping other planets will become interesting and more popular - Microformats don't define the specifications to use, but gather existing data and model that
- [12:59:46] <ajturner>
right, anyways, the question is, if you wanted to specify the reference frame for Geo, how would one do that?
- [13:00:04] <briansuda>
at the moment - earth is the only one
- [13:00:14] <briansuda>
that's why people are looking into the TYPE/VALUE idea
- [13:00:27] <briansuda>
same that has been bouncing around the Currency discussion
- [13:00:35] <briansuda>
and how we already do TEL/ADR/EMAIL
- [13:00:57] <ajturner>
right, so specifying Earth/Mars is like specifying 'Pounds/USD/Euro'?
- [13:01:44] <ajturner>
and Tel: 'Mobile/Home', Adr: 'Home/Work' ?
- [13:02:00] <briansuda>
at the moment that is the current leader for how to mark it up
- [13:03:09] <briansuda>
i would assume that other planets will use lat/lon and not some sort of other system like POLAR, (radius, distance, angle)? if they do then our GEO model is broken already.
- [13:03:09] <ajturner>
example?
- [13:03:37] <ajturner>
heh, correct geo should still work
- [13:04:04] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=8762 * DrewMcLellan * (+9) Exploratory Discussions -
- [13:05:04] <briansuda>
<abbr title="12.34;45.678">Apollo landing site on the <span class="type">moon</span></abbr>
- [13:05:26] <briansuda>
http://moon.google.com/
- [13:06:19] <pnhChris>
but then arises a backwards incompatibility issue
- [13:06:34] <briansuda>
not if you use XMDP Profiles
- [13:06:42] <ajturner>
I like that example
- [13:07:01] <ajturner>
though what is the title="lat;lon" format from?
- [13:07:12] <pnhChris>
i don't particularly like it from a sematic pov
- [13:07:25] <ajturner>
how's that?
- [13:07:38] <pnhChris>
i think its a real abbr stretch.
- [13:07:43] <briansuda>
the LAT;LON comes from vCARD which isn't too explaintory about where they got it
- [13:07:54] <pnhChris>
but i get the idea
- [13:08:00] <briansuda>
you can certainly still use class="latitude" class="longitude" explicitly
- [13:08:38] <briansuda>
i haven't been involved too much in the discussions of GEO outside of earth, but before we declare any "official" microformat - people can certainly test things out on their own site, then as things gain critical mass, the site can be cited as another example
- [13:08:53] <ajturner>
well, being able to 'hide' the lat/lon is nice
- [13:09:14] <pnhChris>
my other concern, if i were to really care enough about this to get into finding a workable solution would be the desire not to have to repeat the type 30 times on a page like some of the example tables shown
- [13:09:21] <ajturner>
sure - well, I am going to start putting up examples to push the geo community as well to see the benefits/usage examples of non-Earth mapping
- [13:09:47] <ajturner>
so I'm going to do some Moon mapping using OpenLayers :)
- [13:10:00] <briansuda>
yes, i want to play with that as well!
- [13:10:12] <briansuda>
you should add them as a link on the wiki so others can find it
- [13:10:18] <ajturner>
b/c when I brought up moon/mars mapping at FOSS4G - some people groaned
- [13:10:45] <mfbot>
[[tagcloud-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=tagcloud-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8763 * AndyMabbett * (+43) boilerplate
- [13:10:52] <ajturner>
ergo my desire to jump in on this convo - hrm... woudl be nice to have a bot to leave "markers" in a channel - if keywords pop up for a discussion, email me so I can log in and join
- [13:11:04] <briansuda>
recently there has been a "lets get this microformat done this week" sort of attitude, or "why hasn't anyone added to my wiki page
- [13:11:23] <briansuda>
well, it is probably because there isn't critical mass of interest yet
- [13:11:31] <mfbot>
[[tagcloud-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=tagcloud-examples&diff=0&oldid=8764 * AndyMabbett * (+48) boilerlpate
- [13:11:36] <briansuda>
we can document and things can lay dormant
- [13:11:46] <ajturner>
well, I think perhaps people are a little frustrated, they want to get something done (due dates, projects, customers) and sometimes "Waiting for emergence" can be tedious
- [13:11:48] <briansuda>
not everything NEEDS to happen by the end of the month
- [13:12:07] <mfbot>
[[tagcloud]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/tagcloud * AndyMabbett * (+31) redirect
- [13:12:10] <ajturner>
not everything ,but some people have customers/projects/timelines (not me, but I've heard it happens ;)
- [13:12:21] <briansuda>
true, but nothing is stopping anyone from just using semantic classes to start with
- [13:12:55] <ajturner>
true, but I think they're trying to 'play nice' and get consensus quickly - pipe dream :)
- [13:13:20] <ajturner>
btw briansuda - I eventually found my flat Tuesday night - took some wandering & gps pinpointing
- [13:13:23] <briansuda>
other other great thing about the web is that it is not like a print broshure, you can change it
- [13:13:31] <briansuda>
:)
- [13:13:39] <ajturner>
the web is dynamic - No! say it ain't so
- [13:13:56] <pnhChris>
the real world problem i run into is not enough clients give a rats ass once something is live... if there was more iteration and evolution on 'normal' sites i think developers would be more patient for things to just come along
- [13:14:20] <pnhChris>
briansuda: you can, but people holding the purses rarely care that it is
- [13:14:32] <pnhChris>
in my experience
- [13:14:42] <pnhChris>
unless the web is your business
- [13:14:45] <ajturner>
well, at least there are grassroots hackers that can try and push and morph their projects
- [13:15:03] <briansuda>
agreed, and if there was some MASSIVE push to map the moon tomorrow (or create a distributed Classified company) then there might be more movement - but like i said - i don't feel the critical mass/buzz so it is abit of a sleeper
- [13:15:14] <mfbot>
[[luna-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=luna-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8765 * AndyMabbett * (+117) Drew McLellan - response
- [13:15:55] <ajturner>
right - pragmatic,
- [13:15:57] <ajturner>
that's good :)
- [13:16:05] <ajturner>
which is why I want to make a demo site
- [13:16:16] <ajturner>
perhaps it's my space background that makes it seem more important to me
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- [13:19:35] <mfbot>
[[luna-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=luna-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8766 * DrewMcLellan * (+141) Drew McLellan - Response to Andy Mabbett's response to me
- [13:20:05] <drewinthehead>
everyone has a space background at night :D
- [13:21:18] <drewinthehead>
moon co-ords are very cool and interesting, but i'm not sure the appeal is broad enough for a microformat, personally
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- [13:22:14] <pnhChris>
if someone can find a way to cleanly extend geo that sits better with me then a new format totally (or for every body)... i just don't have the cycles to give to the discussion no matter what direction it goes in
- [13:22:47] <pnhChris>
otherwise it can wait until i'm flickr'ing my photos of my new house on mars :P
- [13:22:53] <pnhChris>
and need to map em
- [13:23:07] <drewinthehead>
or planning a vacation, perhaps ;)
- [13:24:40] <pnhChris>
vacation? nah.. if i'm leaving this rock it'll be for good :P
- [13:27:55] <ajturner>
I think the idea is to not make a *new* mf, but add a small extension to geo to allow some reference which would apply to moon/mars/virtual environments, and also model closely with how one specifies Work/Home/Mobile, for phones/address, etc.
- [13:28:36] <ajturner>
and think for photos that you should mark what you're taking the photo *of*, so if you have a telescope, marking the lat/lon center (or bounds) of a photo of the moon (if you have a good telescope)
- [13:29:11] <pnhChris>
now THATS a disuccussion i'd think is worth having
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- [13:29:30] <jibot>
kensanata is blogging at http://www.emacswiki.org/alex/
- [13:29:31] <mfbot>
[[luna-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=luna-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8767 * AndyMabbett * (+204) Drew McLellan - response (& Ed)
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- [13:29:55] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
- [13:29:58] <pnhChris>
but i don't want to get into it because the issues of context are just too evil
- [13:30:22] <mfbot>
[[luna-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=luna-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8768 * AndyMabbett * (+8) Drew McLellan -
- [13:30:26] <pnhChris>
and extends to everything from tags to geo to media, etc.
- [13:32:35] <pnhChris>
like the subtleties of the tagcloud discussion
- [13:33:10] <ajturner>
pnhChris - what were you referring to about "THAT discussion"?
- [13:33:22] <ajturner>
you mean, what are you tagging?
- [13:33:43] * briansuda (n=briansud@thjodarbokhlada.hotspot.hive.is) Quit ()
- [13:33:52] <pnhChris>
how to explicitly define what a geo [or tag, or author or.... ] is referring to
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- [13:34:30] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
- [13:34:54] <pnhChris>
so it doesn't lose value or overreach its scope
- [13:37:41] * drewinthehead is utterly bored with luna now.
- [13:37:52] * drewinthehead has a short attention span.
- [13:38:19] <sreynen>
re: luna, current parsers aren't looking for any type of rock, so adding one won't prevent them from mapping moon coordinated onto Earth maps
- [13:38:31] <drewinthehead>
still feels like a solution without a problem
- [13:39:04] <briansuda>
sreynen, that's where XMDP profiles come in and/or a new version of GEO
- [13:39:29] <briansuda>
if you ONLY declare a LUNA GEO XMDP Profile, then any GEO parser should completely ignore any GEOs found
- [13:39:33] <briansuda>
and vice versa
- [13:39:35] <pnhChris>
(e.g. things in a tag cloud not being "tags" because they're defining the contents of a site and not the current visible posts... or if you have a photo with 2 "geos" how to distinguish what point is where the photo was taken and the subject of the photo... or how to say "400iso" is more then just a tag in a list of things next to "balloons" but also can be extracted as exif data)
- [13:40:13] <sreynen>
right, but that still requires rewriting existing parsers
- [13:40:24] <pnhChris>
(lots of things floating around that bother me but not enough just yet for me to go looking for solutions or complaining about specs)
- [13:40:27] <sreynen>
which may be a worthwhile project
- [13:40:41] <sreynen>
but no one seems to be recognizing this change in the email discussions
- [13:41:37] <sreynen>
i do like the idea of something that would encourage use of profiles
- [13:41:50] <sreynen>
seems everyone agrees they're a good idea, but no one is using them
- [13:42:45] <pnhChris>
i think maybe the wrong people are in the thread to be having /that/ discussion
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- [13:43:07] <pnhChris>
i know i've tuned it out
- [13:44:41] <briansuda>
I think XMDP profiles should be the next thing to evangelise - the tricky think is that i'm not sure how pre-made blog apps can/do support adding to HTML outside of the "entry" area.
- [13:44:45] <pnhChris>
is it a good idea or is it inevitable / required because there's no other way to evolve formats in a sane way?
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- [13:45:23] * pnhChris doesn't know the answer to that one
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- [13:46:17] <briansuda>
well i think it is required to disambiguate all the new formats we are producing versus the existing formats we have reused and that apps are consuming currently
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- [13:48:22] <sreynen>
i think we'll run into a social problem where we have an updated format that requires profiles for backwards compatibility (e.g. adding a rock type to geo), and no one is using profiles, so it will just make microformats look broken
- [13:48:55] <pnhChris>
its always been there though
- [13:49:07] <pnhChris>
look at scoping issues with address/author or tags
- [13:49:53] <pnhChris>
i dunno.. need to get coffee and get to work sometime today
- [13:50:50] <pnhChris>
its a bigger discussion then i can take on this morning
- [13:50:53] <pnhChris>
;)
- [13:51:02] <sreynen>
me too
- [13:51:19] <drewinthehead>
when does a draft become a specification?
- [13:51:31] <drewinthehead>
i thinking of hReview in particular
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gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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- [14:24:09] <drewinthehead>
the tantek sticker set is now available! http://www.etsy.com/view_item.php?listing_id=486089&pic_id=4
- [14:32:39] <trovster>
OOOOH, this is where you get the stickers from
- [14:35:10] <trovster>
hmmm
- [14:35:19] * trovster wonders where 'sticker sheet 1' is..
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- [14:46:34] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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- [15:12:46] <mfbot>
[[currency formats]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/currency_formats * Guillaume Lebleu * (+1505)
- [15:13:12] <mfbot>
[[currency formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency_formats&diff=0&oldid=8769 * Guillaume Lebleu * (+0)
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- [15:20:16] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
- [15:24:23] <mfbot>
[[currency formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency_formats&diff=0&oldid=8770 * ScottReynen * (+105) Naming Conventions
- [15:24:44] <mfbot>
[[currency formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency_formats&diff=0&oldid=8771 * ScottReynen * (+0) Oops - formatting
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- [15:33:06] <mfbot>
[[currency formats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency_formats&diff=0&oldid=8772 * AndyMabbett * (-1580) moving (you could have just done that...)
- [15:35:07] <mfbot>
[[currency-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-formats&diff=0&oldid=8773 * AndyMabbett * (+1521) moved, re-arranged
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- [15:38:53] <mfbot>
[[currency-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-formats&diff=0&oldid=8774 * AndyMabbett * (+194) Canadian dollar - pasting my mailing-list reposnse
- [15:40:04] <mfbot>
[[currency-formats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-formats&diff=0&oldid=8775 * AndyMabbett * (+1) Canadian dollar - fmt
- [15:40:30] <mfbot>
[[currency-formats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-formats&diff=0&oldid=8776 * AndyMabbett * (+13) Canadian dollar - <code>
- [15:40:41] <mfbot>
[[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=8777 * Daniel * (+154) Examples in the wild -
- [15:44:52] <mfbot>
[[currency-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-formats&diff=0&oldid=8778 * AndyMabbett * (+4) Canadian dollar - I shoudl use 'preview' more...
- [15:46:08] <mfbot>
[[currency-formats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-formats&diff=0&oldid=8779 * AndyMabbett * (+0) Canadian dollar - =
- [15:47:34] <mfbot>
[[currency-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-formats&diff=0&oldid=8780 * Guillaume Lebleu * (+612) Formats -
- [15:48:06] * tantek scrolls up
- [15:50:40] <mfbot>
[[currency-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-formats&diff=0&oldid=8781 * AndyMabbett * (+1) corrections (4127 is for ship-building!)
- [15:51:41] <mfbot>
[[currency-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-formats&diff=0&oldid=8782 * AndyMabbett * (+41) ISO 4217 - another link
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[[currency-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8783 * AndyMabbett * (+223) Andy Mabbett - References
- [15:55:54] <mfbot>
[[currency-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8784 * AndyMabbett * (+95) References - anpther
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[[hreview]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=8785 * Fold * (+130) Examples in the wild -
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tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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kingryan is ryan king
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- [17:39:59] <tantek>
lots of good discussions last night apparently
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- [17:43:14] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
- [18:00:51] <keithalexander>
I just read the draft for the tagclouds microformat
- [18:01:32] <keithalexander>
what's the rationale behind requiringthe tags to be in a list element?
- [18:12:09] * trovster (n=trovster@host86-139-6-140.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
- [18:12:10] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
- [18:28:34] <hober>
keithalexander: I was wondering what purpose the enclosing <div /> serves.
- [18:29:38] <keithalexander>
yeah, you don't really need both
- [18:30:11] <keithalexander>
i'd rather have the div than the list though
- [18:30:50] <keithalexander>
hmmm
- [18:31:32] <keithalexander>
list might make more sense with stylesheets turned off I suppose
- [18:32:23] <ajturner>
the wiki is still empty on the brainstorming/ideas for tagcloud?
- [18:32:42] <keithalexander>
but then again, that's visual sense of browser's default style
- [18:32:59] <keithalexander>
doesn't necessarily mean it's better semantics
- [18:40:51] <mfbot>
[[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=8786 * DavidJanes * (-7) More Semantic Equivalents -
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- [18:44:00] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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- [18:53:42] <mfbot>
[[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=8787 * Tantek * (+56) minor wording tweak
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- [18:58:54] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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- [19:05:29] <mfbot>
[[implementations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=8788 * BordeWolf * (+457) Added myself and Tails Export
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- [19:15:50] <tantek>
lots of email on the list recently
- [19:17:13] <veeliam>
which list?
- [19:21:39] <tantek>
microformats-discuss
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- [19:29:37] <Frederic>
evening
- [19:36:12] * remi (n=remi@dsl-155-147.aei.ca) has joined #microformats
- [19:36:13] <jibot>
remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
- [19:45:33] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
- [19:45:33] <jibot>
drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
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- [20:22:47] <jibot>
ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com
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- [20:35:47] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8789 * AndyMabbett * (+55) References - Taxon
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- [20:36:06] <jibot>
kensanata is blogging at http://www.emacswiki.org/alex/
- [20:37:13] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8790 * AndyMabbett * (+48) Questions - 'Taxon' as possible top-level name
- [20:40:19] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8791 * AndyMabbett * (+74) References - Hortax
- [20:42:40] <mfbot>
[[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=8792 * AndyMabbett * (+272) Cross (plant) added
- [20:44:02] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8793 * AndyMabbett * (+97) References - ICNCP
- [20:47:48] <mfbot>
[[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=8794 * AndyMabbett * (+140) Cross (plant) - another example
- [20:49:39] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8795 * AndyMabbett * (+26) Straw man proposal - specific epithet
- [20:50:15] <mfbot>
[[species-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=8796 * AndyMabbett * (+0) Cross (plant) - fmt
- [20:51:16] <mfbot>
[[species-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=8797 * AndyMabbett * (-4) Cross (plant) - fmt
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- [20:55:32] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8798 * AndyMabbett * (+29) Straw man proposal - breed
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- [20:57:58] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8799 * AndyMabbett * (+51) References - fix; add Wikispecies
- [21:03:14] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8800 * AndyMabbett * (+45) Questions - Taxon definition
- [21:05:05] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8801 * AndyMabbett * (+14) Straw man proposal - subphylum;, rename "sub" to "subsp"; fmt
- [21:09:36] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8802 * AndyMabbett * (+97) Straw man proposal - domain (& hierarchy ifxes)
- [21:10:17] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8803 * AndyMabbett * (+52) References - Wikispecies' Taxonomy page
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- [21:19:43] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8804 * AndyMabbett * (+65) Straw man proposal - More types
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- [21:33:54] <veeliam_>
?goodnight all
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- [21:34:05] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8805 * AndyMabbett * (+49) Straw man proposal - more
- [21:39:51] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8806 * AndyMabbett * (+12) Straw man proposal - more
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- [21:47:47] <mfbot>
[[citation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples&diff=0&oldid=8807 * Discoleo * (+1597) Citation Mark Up in the Wild -
- [21:49:33] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8808 * AndyMabbett * (+848) Examples -
- [21:49:34] <jibot>
MacDome is a WebKit hacker emeritus & has a passion for fashion & is finally back in CA! & has junk in his trunk! & now has more dots & now has a Super LoveSac!
- [21:50:54] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8809 * AndyMabbett * (+224) Examples - simplified
- [21:54:20] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8810 * AndyMabbett * (+108) Straw man proposal - tidy
- [21:54:56] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8811 * AndyMabbett * (-5) Examples - domain
- [21:58:17] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8812 * AndyMabbett * (+253) Straw man proposal - alternatives
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- [22:00:03] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8813 * AndyMabbett * (+51) Questions - do "authority" and "pair" need a joint wrapper?
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- [22:12:05] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8814 * AndyMabbett * (-10) Examples - tidy
- [22:12:21] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8815 * AndyMabbett * (+0) Examples - cap
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- [22:17:57] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8816 * AndyMabbett * (+273) Questions - "Podiceps sp." & clas confusion - proposed solutions
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- [22:23:09] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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- [22:27:13] <jibot>
BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk (+0000/+0100 GMT)
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- [23:12:50] <mfbot>
[[citation-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=8817 * Discoleo * (+1127) Citing a conference publication -
- [23:34:16] <mfbot>
[[firefox-extensions]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/firefox-extensions * AndyMabbett * (+257) A start
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