IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-10-21
Timestamps are in UTC.
- [00:10:50] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@N033P025.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit ("sleep")
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- [00:32:42] * tantek is going to do some editing on /wiki/advocacy
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- [00:55:32] <mfbot>
[[Advocacy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Advocacy&diff=0&oldid=9639 * Tantek * (+1465) expanded upon Mike's intro, added sections for adding micformats, comparisons
- [00:56:18] <mfbot>
[[advocacy]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=9640 * Tantek * (+2535) moved to here
- [00:56:39] <mfbot>
[[Advocacy]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Advocacy&diff=0&oldid=9641 * Tantek * (-2536) moved to [[advocacy]] (lowercase)
- [01:00:05] <mfbot>
[[to-do]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=9642 * Tantek * (-105) moved add microformats to advocacy
- [01:01:26] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=9643 * Tantek * (+58) added help out links to to-do and advocacy
- [01:03:14] * tantek is done editing advocacy for now - have at it!
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- [01:57:52] <emiliano>
Hi.. anybody awake?
- [02:05:34] <mfbot>
[[User:MichalWithoutTheE]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:MichalWithoutTheE * MichalWithoutTheE * (+61)
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- [02:11:31] <emiliano>
?def emiliano is Emiliano Martinez Luque and can be found online at http://www.metonymie.com
- [02:11:31] <jibot>
emiliano is Emiliano Martinez Luque and can be found online at http://www.metonymie.com
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- [02:17:41] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [02:38:18] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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- [03:41:27] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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- [04:08:39] <mfbot>
[[hresume-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-issues&diff=0&oldid=9644 * Steve Ganz * (+638) Issues - Adding contact info classification issue
- [04:12:10] <mfbot>
[[licensing-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=licensing-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=9645 * Mike Linksvayer * (+145) Discussion - parent work reference
- [04:19:10] <Ashley`>
In relation to IRC on the wiki, I'm thinking the text "Join the mailing lists and irc channel" on the main page should be changed to either link to an IRC wiki page, or an irc:// link.
- [04:19:39] <Ashley`>
Thoughts?
- [04:20:21] <mfbot>
[[hresume-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-issues&diff=0&oldid=9646 * Steve Ganz * (+2) Issues -
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- [04:48:08] <mfbot>
[[hresume-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-issues&diff=0&oldid=9647 * Steve Ganz * (+221) Issues - Defined additional need for hCard types in hResume.
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- [05:04:54] <Frederic>
morning
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- [05:40:20] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=9648 * Ashley * (+8) How to contribute - Added link to irc page
- [05:49:27] <mfbot>
[[irc]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=9649 * Ashley * (+719) Added "IRC Clients" section
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- [07:49:37] <jibot>
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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- [10:21:43] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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- [10:28:46] <mcknut>
Hi
- [10:32:45] <mcknut>
just playing around with tails, after seeing it mentioned at the WSG night in London on Thursday, what I'm seeing doesn't look like the screenshots they had so I'm wondering if I'm on the latest version, the latest one I could find was 0.3.1
- [10:40:53] <mcknut>
also, am I right in thinking that there's no version that works in OS X and allows you to export correctly?
- [10:48:52] <trovster>
http://blog.codeeg.com/tails-firefox-extension-03/ 0.3.4 is the latest
- [10:50:16] <mcknut>
ooh, ta
- [10:50:17] <trovster>
There is 'tails export' but not sure whether that is as up to date as tails... could have been built on the pre 0.3 version
- [10:50:45] <mcknut>
ah, right, yeah I've been using 'tails export'
- [10:52:31] <trovster>
The tails I posted, doesn't have export...
- [10:52:52] <trovster>
And, isn't perfect either... clicking on the more info, loses the image it had in the preview mode, which is wierd
- [10:54:33] <mcknut>
hmm.. interesting
- [10:54:45] <mcknut>
I was hacking tails export to have mac support, which now works
- [10:56:26] <mcknut>
will have to check out tails to decide what I should do
- [10:56:56] <jibot>
Elzy[D is aka elzriel; elzriel is Yo-ho.
- [10:58:13] <trovster>
I use tails fine on my mac here, infact, it's just updated to 0.3.4
- [10:58:29] <mcknut>
does it export to addressbook?
- [11:03:10] <trovster>
Nope
- [11:04:42] <mcknut>
ok, mine does, but I definitely need to get a hold of tails itself and try it out
- [11:05:56] <trovster>
yeh, coz you've got tails export!
- [11:06:06] <trovster>
Which, like you said, looks nothing like tails
- [11:06:22] <trovster>
I had tails export on my PC, and rarely, if ever, exported from it
- [11:06:34] <mcknut>
heh
- [11:06:49] <mcknut>
I'm so behind the times
- [11:07:02] <trovster>
I just use Tails to check the uF I am using are correct (ish)
- [11:08:49] <mcknut>
sorry to keep asking questions without actually installing the thing, but I don't want to break one with the other, but what usefulness does tails provide if it has no export function? (don't mean that to sound derisive, genuine question)
- [11:10:49] <trovster>
Like I mentioned, depends what you want from it. I /never/ actually exported contact from it. And it's not (or wasn't) as feature complete or parsing complete as plain old Tails. Tails (IMO) has a nicer interface and experience to find and check uF.
- [11:11:03] <trovster>
I really just use it to check my pages, to see it's all working.
- [11:11:18] <trovster>
Neither are perfect
- [11:11:31] <mcknut>
sorry, that's what I mean though, if you're using standard tails, what do you do once you've found the microformats?
- [11:12:37] <trovster>
I'm not 'finding' them, because I'm building them.... and I go 'yey it's working'
- [11:13:08] <mcknut>
:) fair enough
- [11:13:16] * mcknut does the happy dance
- [11:13:43] <mcknut>
finally got my "new feature" working, tidy the code a bit and I'll go blog it
- [11:14:49] <trovster>
You might be interested in other 'lint' tools
- [11:16:46] <mcknut>
btw, were you at the WSG night on Thursday?
- [11:17:09] <trovster>
Nope, I wasn't. I was at the first WSG, but it's too far for me to travel for one evening
- [11:17:27] <mcknut>
ah right, shame, where are you?
- [11:17:43] <trovster>
I'm in the Midlands, just north of Birmingham
- [11:17:59] <mcknut>
ah, yeah, fair enough
- [11:18:00] <trovster>
Actually, I'm presently just south of Birmingham, but I work north of Birmingham
- [11:18:23] <trovster>
+ talking with drew, I don't think I would have got much out of it, coz I know a lot of the tools and stuff
- [11:18:28] <trovster>
Being in this channel helps a fair bit
- [11:18:35] <mcknut>
I'm actually in Liverpool but I work for a company in London so generally have an excuse to go down there
- [11:19:06] <mcknut>
yeah, i wasn't sure what I'd get out of it, having seen a few talks elsewhere, but I've not really got into microformats in a big way yet so it was still really interesting
- [11:19:31] <trovster>
http://tools.microformatic.com/help/xhtml/rel-lint/
- [11:19:54] <trovster>
http://leftlogic.com/info/articles/microformats_bookmarklet might be good too
- [11:20:36] <mcknut>
thanks
- [11:24:18] <trovster>
http://del.icio.us/trovster/microformats?setcount=25 :)
- [11:33:46] <gsnedders>
isn't there any page on the Wiki simply about the purpose of µf?
- [11:43:43] <trovster>
http://microformats.org/about/ that?
- [12:20:59] <mcknut>
hmm.. GMT/BST dates on upcoming.org are being reported as PST(I think), that's unfortunate
- [12:31:40] <mfbot>
[[events/2006-10-19-wsg-microformats-meetup]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-10-19-wsg-microformats-meetup&diff=0&oldid=9650 * Adactio * (+88) Blog Posts -
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- [12:55:31] <mfbot>
[[events/2006-10-19-wsg-microformats-meetup]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-10-19-wsg-microformats-meetup&diff=0&oldid=9651 * Adactio * (+92) Details -
- [13:03:43] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=9652 * AndyMabbett * (-30) rm duplicate and move "advocay" from "grtting started" to "how to contribute"; make list
- [13:07:34] <mfbot>
[[irc]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=9653 * AndyMabbett * (-2786) People on irc - moving oong list to sub-page
- [13:08:05] <mfbot>
[[irc-people]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/irc-people * AndyMabbett * (+2880) moved
- [13:11:31] <mfbot>
[[irc]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=9654 * AndyMabbett * (-46) Tidying
- [13:11:47] <mfbot>
[[irc]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=9655 * AndyMabbett * (-16) People on irc - tidy
- [13:12:23] <mfbot>
[[irc]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=9656 * AndyMabbett * (-22) Popular Clients - rm unecesary header
- [13:12:39] <mfbot>
[[irc]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=9657 * AndyMabbett * (-1) Clients - :
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- [13:26:25] <mfbot>
[[advocacy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=9658 * AndyMabbett * (+211) Firefox developments
- [13:31:42] <mfbot>
[[firefox-extensions]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=firefox-extensions&diff=0&oldid=9659 * AndyMabbett * (+214) Firefox developments
- [13:31:58] <mfbot>
[[advocacy]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=9660 * AndyMabbett * (+2) sp.
- [13:34:44] <mfbot>
[[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=9661 * AndyMabbett * (+214) Firefox - more
- [13:46:35] <mfbot>
[[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9662 * AndyMabbett * (+256) Notable websites - Nature Network, Boston
- [13:47:01] <mfbot>
[[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9663 * AndyMabbett * (+1) Notable websites - Nature Network, Boston
- [14:10:18] <mfbot>
[[dtstart]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/dtstart * AndyMabbett * (+23) redirect
- [14:11:14] <mfbot>
[[dtend]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/dtend * AndyMabbett * (+55)
- [14:11:35] <mfbot>
[[dtstart]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=dtstart&diff=0&oldid=9664 * AndyMabbett * (+34)
- [14:11:46] <mfbot>
[[dtstart]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=dtstart&diff=0&oldid=9665 * AndyMabbett * (+1) '
- [14:15:22] <mfbot>
[[dtstart]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=dtstart&diff=0&oldid=9666 * AndyMabbett * (+10) cap
- [14:15:43] <mfbot>
[[dtend]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=dtend&diff=0&oldid=9667 * AndyMabbett * (+9) cap
- [14:17:09] <mfbot>
[[inc]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/inc * AndyMabbett * (+29) #REDIRECT:[[include-pattern]]
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- [14:28:30] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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- [15:09:25] <tommorris>
Hey all - got a new microformat suggestion. "hPorn" - semantic markup to help users easily find pr0n!
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- [15:10:46] <tommorris>
Technology gets bootstrapped by porn - so why not encourage pornographers to use microformats on their websites?
- [15:29:52] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-issues&diff=0&oldid=9668 * AndyMabbett * (+293) Issues - URL of same page
- [15:30:43] <mfbot>
[[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=9669 * AndyMabbett * (+273) Issues - URL of same page
- [15:42:42] <trovster>
rel directory and rel prev/next :) heh
- [15:45:14] <tommorris>
I've found another area where microformats may be useful - in marking up chemical processes. A family member runs a darkroom - and it would be neat if one could extract details of the chemicals and timings that people are using for, say, photographic development.
- [16:34:36] <mfbot>
[[events/2006-10-19-wsg-microformats-meetup]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-10-19-wsg-microformats-meetup&diff=0&oldid=9670 * Adactio * (+122) Presentations -
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- [16:37:35] <jibot>
kensanata is blogging at http://www.emacswiki.org/alex/
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[[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=9671 * AndyMabbett * (+159) Typography - response to old Q
- [16:55:54] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=9672 * AndyMabbett * (+58) Typography - fix, sign, my last
- [16:56:24] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=9673 * AndyMabbett * (+18) Typography - add uF !
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- [17:29:29] <jibot>
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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- [17:31:13] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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- [17:43:02] <mfbot>
[[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9674 * AndyMabbett * (+76) Notable websites - Flickr Field Guide: Birds of the World
- [17:44:23] <mfbot>
[[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9675 * AndyMabbett * (+39) Notable websites - another 2twenty-three thousand examples
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- [17:52:47] <jibot>
kensanata is blogging at http://www.emacswiki.org/alex/
- [17:53:34] <mfbot>
[[advocacy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=9676 * AndyMabbett * (+274) television listings
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- [18:25:00] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
- [18:45:26] <bewes1>
am I correct that size was not a consideration to choosing "geo"?
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- [19:37:18] <jibot>
drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
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- [19:44:44] <tantek>
tommorris, to identify content by topic (e.g. pr0n), use rel-tag
- [19:46:10] <tantek>
and "details of the chemicals and timings that people are using for" sounds like a "recipe". Feel free to add URLs to real world examples of what you are talking about to the "recipes-examples" wiki page.
- [19:48:54] <mfbot>
[[advocacy]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=9677 * Tantek * (+0) typo
- [20:02:40] <mfbot>
[[advocacy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=9678 * Tantek * (+450) moved Television suggestion to hCalendar section, created new Applications section for Firefox
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- [20:51:48] <jibot>
kensanata is blogging at http://www.emacswiki.org/alex/
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- [21:19:13] <mfbot>
[[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9679 * CharlesRoper * (+154) GUID -
- [21:20:04] <mfbot>
[[species-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9680 * CharlesRoper * (+126) GUID -
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- [21:30:21] <mfbot>
[[cheatsheet]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/cheatsheet * AndyMabbett * (+133) Couldn't find this anywhere on the 'wiki'
- [21:31:22] <mfbot>
[[cheatsheet]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=cheatsheet&diff=0&oldid=9681 * AndyMabbett * (-109) redirect
- [21:32:08] <mfbot>
[[cheatsheet]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=cheatsheet&diff=0&oldid=9682 * AndyMabbett * (+108) oops
- [21:32:19] <mfbot>
[[cheat-sheet]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/cheat-sheet * AndyMabbett * (+24) #REDIRECT:[[cheatsheet]]
- [21:32:40] <mfbot>
[[cheat]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/cheat * AndyMabbett * (+24) #REDIRECT:[[cheatsheet]]
- [21:34:21] <mfbot>
[[properties]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/properties * AndyMabbett * (+30) #REDIRECT:[[existing-classes]]
- [21:34:37] <mfbot>
[[classes]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/classes * AndyMabbett * (+30) #REDIRECT:[[existing-classes]]
- [21:35:03] <mfbot>
[[class]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/class * AndyMabbett * (+30) #REDIRECT:[[existing-classes]]
- [21:35:19] <mfbot>
[[property]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/property * AndyMabbett * (+30) #REDIRECT:[[existing-classes]]
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- [22:27:07] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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- [22:39:17] <mfbot>
[[to-do]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=9683 * Tantek * (+593) added some process to-dos
- [22:58:18] <bewes1>
anyone interested in the species stuff around?
- [22:59:53] <mfbot>
[[events/2006-10-19-wsg-microformats-meetup]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-10-19-wsg-microformats-meetup&diff=0&oldid=9684 * Adactio * (+88) Blog Posts -
- [23:01:09] <mfbot>
[[mailing-lists]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mailing-lists&diff=0&oldid=9685 * Ben Ward * (+295) new list proposal: Added votes for Ben Ward -
- [23:05:06] <mfbot>
[[mailing-lists]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mailing-lists&diff=0&oldid=9686 * Tantek * (+262) we need a new list for new microformats
- [23:05:37] <mfbot>
[[events/2006-10-19-wsg-microformats-meetup]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-10-19-wsg-microformats-meetup&diff=0&oldid=9687 * Adactio * (+434) WSG Meetup: Microformats -
- [23:05:39] <bewes1>
gah
- [23:05:47] <bewes1>
hmmm
- [23:05:53] <bewes1>
tantek: you edited while I was editing :-(
- [23:06:26] <bewes1>
tantek: I was just about to add microformats-work to the suggested list
- [23:06:45] <bewes1>
for, you know... working on microformats, regardless of what state they are in
- [23:06:48] <mfbot>
[[events/2006-10-19-wsg-microformats-meetup]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-10-19-wsg-microformats-meetup&diff=0&oldid=9688 * Adactio * (+1) Audio -
- [23:07:00] * bewes1 tries to figure out how to merge
- [23:07:29] <tantek>
bewes1, my change was a simple insertion of a continuous block of text, you should be able to merge that into your version
- [23:07:39] <bewes1>
yeah... working o nit
- [23:09:39] <mfbot>
[[mailing-lists]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mailing-lists&diff=0&oldid=9689 * BenWest * (+287) changed my vote away from "nothing"; added microformats-work as a suggestion for the purpose of working on microformats new and old.
- [23:09:46] * bewes1 figured it out
- [23:10:45] <bewes1>
most list suggestions are biased towards /new/ microformats whereas the process is biased against newness.
- [23:12:26] <bewes1>
also, I thought it was our intent to collect failed proposals of microformats and why
- [23:12:46] <bewes1>
so work seems generally more apropriate, because it is agnostic of stage and timeline
- [23:13:08] <bewes1>
and is more descriptive of the actions put before the list
- [23:13:41] <bewes1>
speaking of which...
- [23:14:10] <bewes1>
tantek: I thought the point of collecting examples was so to discover publishing conventions already in place
- [23:14:27] <bewes1>
tantek: and that the conventions already in place would greatly inform the resulting format
- [23:15:40] <bewes1>
eg the question of "how is this data being published?" is more important than "is this kind of data being published?"
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- [23:19:26] <jibot>
vmarks is in NC
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- [23:47:02] <tantek>
bewes1: both questions are important
- [23:47:35] <tantek>
the is it being published is a good first question, in particular, is it being published in any sort of reasonable mass-audience quantity?
- [23:47:49] <tantek>
if not, then no microformat, just go experiment with your own semantic class names
- [23:47:55] <bewes1>
to determine if the "how" question is worth pursuing
- [23:48:21] <tantek>
if so, then documenting *what* in particular is being published implies a schema which is one of the essential components of a format
- [23:48:21] <bewes1>
obviously you can't pursue "how" if there are no instances to investigate
- [23:48:28] <bewes1>
ok right
- [23:48:30] <tantek>
or not enough
- [23:48:44] <bewes1>
so the results of finding examples should imply the schema
- [23:48:51] <mfbot>
[[mailing-lists]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mailing-lists&diff=0&oldid=9690 * Tantek * (+0) move nothing choice to end
- [23:48:56] <tantek>
bewes1, it can
- [23:48:58] <tantek>
but doesn't have to
- [23:49:06] <bewes1>
hmmm
- [23:49:11] <tantek>
in that, one set of folks can find sufficient examples to justify further work
- [23:49:21] <tantek>
another set of folks can analyze those examples for implied schema
- [23:49:41] <bewes1>
hmmm that's interesting
- [23:49:47] <tantek>
see http://microformats.org/wiki/examples BTW for more reading on this
- [23:51:05] <bewes1>
the cite-examples page is wonderful... it addresses behaviour and lets the behaviour inform the schema
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- [23:53:44] <bewes1>
http://microformats.org/wiki/examples doesn't indicate that the examples should be explained in the behavour of those examples in the way the cite-examples actually explains it
- [23:56:15] <bewes1>
also, that pages lists blog-post-examples as a good example of example pages
- [23:56:30] <bewes1>
but cite-examples seems much better
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