IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-10-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:01:26] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@hq.last.fm) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  5. [00:11:01] <julianstahnke> hello guys, I'm working for www.last.fm and we're working to get some microformat stuff going
  6. [00:11:26] <bewest> neat
  7. [00:12:25] * bewest would guess hReview, in particular?
  8. [00:12:28] <bewest> perhaps rel-tag?
  9. [00:12:45] <julianstahnke> yeah, rel-tag is already implemented
  10. [00:12:47] <bewest> maybe even hCard for users
  11. [00:13:05] <julianstahnke> yeah, we're going to have events soon and are implementing hCalendar
  12. [00:13:10] <julianstahnke> and hCard for venues
  13. [00:13:49] <bewest> you're implenting events from scratch?
  14. [00:13:51] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("Some Kind of Raid Boss")
  15. [00:13:55] <bewest> gah implementing
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  17. [00:14:13] <julianstahnke> yes
  18. [00:14:15] * bewest would have used one of the many pre-existing events services like upcoming or eventful
  19. [00:14:29] <bewest> but yeah, hCalendar is apropriate there
  20. [00:14:29] <julianstahnke> yeah, we're using many feeds and stuff
  21. [00:14:33] <julianstahnke> and try to work with them
  22. [00:14:41] <bewest> cool
  23. [00:15:03] <bewest> do you know about pingerati? a place to send events and whatnot
  24. [00:15:08] <bewest> events and contacts
  25. [00:15:25] <julianstahnke> ah, I only knew the kitchen.technorati stuff
  26. [00:15:29] <bewest> although tantek and KevinMarks are the people to talk to regarding pingerati
  27. [00:16:53] <julianstahnke> uh nice, a co-worker was just trying to get that working somehow
  28. [00:17:35] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit ("nil")
  29. [00:26:36] <julianstahnke> I've a question. we have listings of events and individual event pages. I marked up both as vcalendar, the url in the listings links to the proper full event page ... is that the way to go?
  30. [00:27:15] <julianstahnke> (hCalendar, that is)
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  42. [01:09:35] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  50. [01:21:38] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
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  52. [01:25:22] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
  53. [01:37:00] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-66-127-210-245.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  54. [01:37:00] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  55. [01:37:03] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  56. [01:37:49] <mfbot> [[xfolk]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk&diff=0&oldid=9851 * Jinnan * (+77) Implementations -
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  73. [04:09:04] <mfbot> [[what-are-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=what-are-microformats&diff=0&oldid=9852 * RichQuick * (+4342) Added another definition of microformats
  74. [04:21:01] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Aav125.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  75. [04:42:41] <Frederic> morning
  76. [04:46:05] <factoryjoe> mornin
  77. [04:53:36] <Frederic> hi chris
  78. [04:53:54] <factoryjoe> hi
  79. [04:54:24] <csarven> anyone aware of an extension that picks up a hCalendar and export to Google Calendar?
  80. [04:54:43] <csarven> firefox
  81. [04:58:45] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  82. [04:58:46] <vant_> not an extension but a script for greasemonkey http://greasemonkey.makedatamakesense.com/google_hcalendar/
  83. [05:02:41] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  84. [05:02:42] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  85. [05:04:01] <csarven> neat. thanks vant_
  86. [05:12:17] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  87. [05:12:17] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  88. [05:12:35] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  89. [05:15:17] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit ("back soon, no doubt")
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  98. [06:14:23] <jibot> bewest is Ben West and lives in San Francisco, CA. He daydreams about web style software, works at Alexa.com and blogs at http://bewest.wordpress.com/
  99. [06:14:37] <bewest> anyone going to "Web.20"?
  100. [06:14:49] <bewest> conference in a couple weeks in SF?
  101. [06:16:56] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
  102. [06:17:53] <KevinMarks> I'm sure I'll be there
  103. [06:19:11] * bewest is debating whether or not to go
  104. [06:19:24] <bewest> how do they decide who speaks at these things?
  105. [06:19:25] <KevinMarks> are you nearby?
  106. [06:19:31] * bewest is in SF
  107. [06:19:50] <bewest> my employer will pay for two conferences per year
  108. [06:19:51] <KevinMarks> well, I just wander in and say hi
  109. [06:20:01] <KevinMarks> but then I know the organisers
  110. [06:20:36] <bewest> KevinMarks: yes... how did you get to know them?
  111. [06:20:47] <KevinMarks> crashing their other conferences
  112. [06:20:56] <bewest> hehe
  113. [06:21:10] <KevinMarks> and attending some as a speaker...
  114. [06:21:56] <bewest> yes... that leads back to my earlier question
  115. [06:22:16] <bewest> you and tantek and some others 'round here sometimes speak at these things
  116. [06:22:43] <KevinMarks> well, we spoke at etech 2004 by setting up an evening unconference thing
  117. [06:24:15] <KevinMarks> liekwise etech 2003, come to thin of it
  118. [06:24:33] <bewest> how many conferences a year do you attend?
  119. [06:24:40] <KevinMarks> that was in SJ, and I turned up in the vening for the social software get-together
  120. [06:24:56] <KevinMarks> and went to Danny O'Brien's 'Emerging Man'
  121. [06:25:04] <KevinMarks> which was the prototypical Foo Camp
  122. [06:25:54] * vant_ (n=vant@FLH1Aav125.isk.mesh.ad.jp) has joined #microformats
  123. [06:26:39] <KevinMarks> http://www.craphound.com/images/etcon2003pix/etcon2003pix-Pages/Image40.html
  124. [06:27:21] <bewest> beers and coding can be dangerous ;-)
  125. [06:28:03] <KevinMarks> my advice is to just show up
  126. [06:28:24] <KevinMarks> worst case you cna hang around the lobby
  127. [06:28:43] <bewest> heh, the entry isn't such a big deal
  128. [06:28:45] <KevinMarks> but usually you can join in
  129. [06:28:54] <bewest> I dunno about most folks but I have work to oblige
  130. [06:29:54] <KevinMarks> the conversation at these thinsg should be good for your job
  131. [06:30:25] <bewest> so this is a good one to go to?
  132. [06:30:26] * bengee (n=bengee@muedsl-82-207-128-166.citykom.de) has joined #microformats
  133. [06:30:26] <jibot> bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
  134. [06:30:30] <bewest> there are so many conferences
  135. [06:30:38] <KevinMarks> yes, web2.0 is good
  136. [06:30:59] <KevinMarks> most O'R ones are pretty good
  137. [06:34:53] * bewest read KevinMarks' congress bans myspace post
  138. [06:35:17] * bewest rubs his eyes in disbelief
  139. [06:35:36] <KevinMarks> make sure you vote
  140. [06:35:45] <KevinMarks> and call your representatives
  141. [06:35:57] <bewest> I have to call?
  142. [06:35:58] <bewest> hmmm
  143. [06:36:13] <KevinMarks> well, I'm an alien, they don't listen to me
  144. [06:36:34] <bewest> does it have to be me speaking?
  145. [06:37:04] <bewest> if I call a phone number, and a machine picks up and then completes the call on my behalf, is that good?
  146. [06:37:30] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Aav125.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  147. [06:39:11] <bewest> USF tax on VOIP???
  148. [06:39:39] <KevinMarks> scary, no?
  149. [06:40:51] <bewest> a bit, yeah....
  150. [06:41:03] <bewest> combined with Bush saying he uses "the google"
  151. [06:44:06] * bewest notices there was a "bar camp paris"
  152. [06:44:24] * bewest should have gotten his company to pay for that one
  153. [07:00:35] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) has joined #microformats
  154. [07:00:36] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  155. [07:02:30] <KevinMarks> definite;y go to the barcamps
  156. [07:04:47] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl081-246-197.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  157. [07:10:13] <Frederic> bewest: are you in Paris ?
  158. [07:11:21] <bewest> no
  159. [07:11:43] <bewest> Frederic: I'm in san francisco. I've never been to paris.
  160. [07:12:17] <Frederic> Oh OK, because you wre talking about barcamp paris
  161. [07:13:07] <bewest> Frederic: yes, my company will pay for two conferences a year ;-)
  162. [07:13:08] <factoryjoe> oh?
  163. [07:13:38] <Frederic> hehe
  164. [07:14:05] <Frederic> bewest: I've been talking about microformats at 4 barcamps here, we have lots of sponsors
  165. [07:14:22] <bewest> factoryjoe: http://barcamp.org/BarCampParis4
  166. [07:14:37] <Frederic> bewest: that's an old one
  167. [07:15:06] <Frederic> I think we've had 2 or 3 more barcamps here
  168. [07:15:14] <bewest> since then?
  169. [07:15:30] <bewest> I was just looking at http://microformats.org/wiki/events
  170. [07:16:17] <Frederic> Yes, but I had to much work to really get into them
  171. [07:16:18] <bewest> if I like french movies, would I like francophone bar camps?
  172. [07:16:51] <Frederic> Don't know, I don't like movies but I like talking at barcamps
  173. [07:16:57] <bewest> hehehe
  174. [07:17:32] <Frederic> The barcamp paris 4 microformats presentation was overrcrowded, ew had to move into a bigger room
  175. [07:17:45] <bewest> nice
  176. [07:20:06] * bewest just noticed it's way past "bedtime"
  177. [07:20:27] <bewest> 'night all
  178. [07:20:59] <Frederic> night
  179. [07:21:06] <Frederic> It's time to start working here
  180. [07:21:21] <bewest> microformats never sleep
  181. [07:21:29] <bewest> the sun never sets on microformats
  182. [07:21:31] <bewest> erm
  183. [07:21:35] <factoryjoe> the french are nice
  184. [07:21:40] <bewest> the sun never sets on microformateers
  185. [07:21:50] <factoryjoe> this is true
  186. [07:21:52] <factoryjoe> nor on barcamp
  187. [07:40:18] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl081-246-197.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
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  191. [07:55:58] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  192. [07:55:58] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
  193. [07:56:35] * McNulty (n=ciaran@nat-195.157.130.52.maximalls.net) has joined #microformats
  194. [07:56:35] <jibot> McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
  195. [07:56:42] <McNulty> morning all
  196. [07:57:28] <mcknut> morning
  197. [08:02:47] <mfbot> [[what-are-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=what-are-microformats&diff=0&oldid=9853 * AndyMabbett * (+89) Richard Quick - superb!
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  201. [08:24:13] * drewinthehead (i=mclellan@nat/yahoo/x-8af43bf954a52d52) has joined #microformats
  202. [08:24:13] <jibot> drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
  203. [08:24:29] <McNulty> Hello drew, I listened to your talk on the way to work
  204. [08:24:32] <McNulty> Very interesting
  205. [08:24:36] * bengee_ (n=bengee@muedsl-82-207-128-166.citykom.de) has joined #microformats
  206. [08:24:39] <drewinthehead> hey McNulty
  207. [08:24:56] <drewinthehead> a bit stilted i thought :)
  208. [08:25:16] <McNulty> I was slightly surprised you didn't use the word REST at all, at the end there.
  209. [08:25:40] <drewinthehead> there were lots of words i didn't use :D
  210. [08:25:41] * bengee (n=bengee@muedsl-82-207-128-166.citykom.de) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  211. [08:29:30] <McNulty> I was glad I'd glanced at the slides earlire
  212. [08:30:29] * bewest (n=ben@httpcraft/bewest) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  213. [08:32:14] * bengee_ (n=bengee@muedsl-82-207-128-166.citykom.de) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  214. [08:45:56] <SvperPhly> I've been thinking about a new use for microformats
  215. [08:46:36] <SvperPhly> you know how you add a lot of crap to your page for navigation, title of website, ads, blog roll, search box, external site links, w3c link, etc?
  216. [08:46:57] <SvperPhly> well, that really doesn't pertain much to the actual topic of the page...
  217. [08:46:59] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  218. [08:47:35] <SvperPhly> for instance: http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/10/25/argentina.iran.ap/index.html
  219. [08:47:48] <cbarrett> drewinthehead: I like your naming of hKit btw :)
  220. [08:47:52] * cbarrett is a mac developer
  221. [08:48:08] <SvperPhly> See how many links have NOTHING to do with the topic of the page? Argentine prosecutors: Arrest former Iranian president
  222. [08:48:19] <SvperPhly> we have links to: Madonna: Wealth didn't speed case
  223. [08:48:26] <SvperPhly> 'Grey's' Washington: I'm sorry
  224. [08:48:31] <SvperPhly> 'Son of Sam' settles suit with ex-lawyer
  225. [08:48:40] <cbarrett> Right.
  226. [08:48:46] * cbarrett awaits the point
  227. [08:48:46] <cbarrett> ;)
  228. [08:48:52] <drewinthehead> :)
  229. [08:49:09] <SvperPhly> ok... well, i've had an idea for a while, but no one reads my blog, so it never really got any 'press'
  230. [08:49:31] <SvperPhly> Basically, you should wrap your content using the DOM and serve up JUST the topic/article/text of the page.
  231. [08:49:40] <SvperPhly> if you created a microformat for navigation, ads, etc
  232. [08:49:45] <McNulty> whuhuh?
  233. [08:49:46] <SvperPhly> you could essentially index more effectively
  234. [08:50:25] <SvperPhly> this has a little bit to do with SEO sorta, but really more about W3C's description of what a webpage is.
  235. [08:50:33] <SvperPhly> a single bit of information.
  236. [08:50:54] <SvperPhly> the ONLY h1 that should exist on the page is the topic of the page, not the site title, not the navigation header, not the footer header
  237. [08:51:01] <SvperPhly> that's all peripheral information
  238. [08:51:44] <SvperPhly> google looks at a page on any of our websites and is like "there's a link to w3c, creative commons, adsense, my friends site, my other friends site, etc"
  239. [08:51:54] <SvperPhly> all have nothing to do with the actual page's point.
  240. [08:52:02] <SvperPhly> point/topic, same diff
  241. [08:52:27] <SvperPhly> i mean we, almost all, use id="body" or id="content"
  242. [08:52:29] <SvperPhly> but there's no standard
  243. [08:52:37] <SvperPhly> we have id="header"
  244. [08:52:53] <SvperPhly> anyone still listening?
  245. [08:53:32] <SvperPhly> i guess a better way to describe it would be... if you were to print the page, what would you expect to come out of the printer? the site nav? nope.
  246. [08:53:49] <McNulty> I think <header>, <content> and <navigation> have been proposed for future HTML versions
  247. [08:54:24] <SvperPhly> so until then, we wait?
  248. [08:54:42] <McNulty> XHTML2.0 has <section> and <h>, which is quite interesting
  249. [08:54:52] <cbarrett> XHTML2.0 is irrelevant.
  250. [08:54:59] <cbarrett> It's not compatible with the rest of the web
  251. [08:55:08] <McNulty> how do you mean?
  252. [08:55:09] <cbarrett> and AFAIK no browser has plans to implement it.
  253. [08:56:06] <cbarrett> <img> is either deprecated or removed (I can't recall)
  254. [08:56:11] <SvperPhly> why not develop a microformat vocabulary that makes up parts of webpages?
  255. [08:56:15] <SvperPhly> deprecated.
  256. [08:56:19] <SvperPhly> <object> instead
  257. [08:56:20] <cbarrett> I think they also changed the semantics for links.
  258. [08:56:23] <SvperPhly> yeah
  259. [08:56:37] <cbarrett> Asking user agents to maintain two separate parsers and display engines is silly.
  260. [08:56:54] <SvperPhly> cbarrett: so, does my idea hold water in your eyes?
  261. [08:57:05] <drewinthehead> water in your eyes? ick
  262. [08:57:15] <SvperPhly> i knew that was goign to happen ;)
  263. [08:57:21] <cbarrett> Not really -- I still don't see why you want microformats for navigation and ads and stuff.
  264. [08:57:31] <cbarrett> how is that "Humans first, machines second"?
  265. [08:57:35] <McNulty> cbarrett - Browsers already can render XML, why can't they just render XHTML2.0?
  266. [08:57:54] <McNulty> Also no site in their right mind would explicitly mark up adverts as suck
  267. [08:57:57] <McNulty> er such
  268. [08:58:11] <cbarrett> 99% of the XHTML web can't be parsed as XHTML
  269. [08:58:19] <McNulty> becuse everyone in the world would immediately set up a user stylesheet for .advert{ display: hidden; }
  270. [08:58:26] <cbarrett> the DOM totally changes, as do the parsing and rendering rules
  271. [08:58:28] <cbarrett> for example
  272. [08:58:39] <cbarrett> document.createElement() doesn't work in XML. It doesn't know what namespace to use.
  273. [08:58:41] <McNulty> cbarrett - I've not looked at it much, so I'll defer to your judgement
  274. [08:58:48] <cbarrett> so you use document.createElementNS() instead.
  275. [08:59:15] <cbarrett> Next generation of stuff you're gonna see is going to come out of the WHATWG
  276. [08:59:18] <cbarrett> HTML5
  277. [08:59:26] <SvperPhly> well, then aside from microformats, what about wrapping a document with the site's navigation and what not...
  278. [08:59:31] <cbarrett> http://www.whatwg.org/
  279. [08:59:52] <cbarrett> SvperPhly: It seems more useful to me to mark up the area of the page that actually *is* contentful.
  280. [09:00:31] <SvperPhly> so a single tag of <div class="theRealContent">
  281. [09:01:22] <cbarrett> or something.
  282. [09:01:52] <McNulty> and <link rel="alternate bookmark" href="#theRealContent" /> in the head?
  283. [09:02:10] <McNulty> to say 'for the canonical version of this page, only look at this bit'
  284. [09:02:41] <cbarrett> yeah, except with a less silly name than "theRealContent" ;)
  285. [09:03:36] <McNulty> If you had a @rel value that was appropriate, the designer could choose their own ID
  286. [09:03:40] <McNulty> If you see what I mean
  287. [09:04:49] <cbarrett> McNulty: yea
  288. [09:05:06] <McNulty> I see whatwg's Web Applications 1.0 specifies a <header> and <footer>
  289. [09:05:35] <cbarrett> yea
  290. [09:06:04] <McNulty> makes sense considering 99% of published content has an element with @id="header"
  291. [09:06:35] * muffinresearch (i=scol@nat/yahoo/x-40220122d15ef9c7) has joined #microformats
  292. [09:06:58] <McNulty> According to Google, the top classname on existing content is 'footer'
  293. [09:07:10] <McNulty> frankly that should be an ID
  294. [09:07:20] * cbarrett shrugeth
  295. [09:07:45] <trovster> I personally use #branding, #content, #footer {}
  296. [09:07:55] <trovster> After reading two articles talking about ise
  297. [09:08:00] <trovster> use* of class/id names
  298. [09:08:20] <McNulty> #header, #footer, #nav here, which sems to map onto the HTML5 proposals
  299. [09:08:28] <McNulty> trovster - http://code.google.com/webstats/2005-12/classes.html this one of them?
  300. [09:08:32] <trovster> Nope
  301. [09:08:44] <trovster> Oh yeh, #navigation {}
  302. [09:08:46] <McNulty> dicussion of currency markup, in the last para
  303. [09:08:55] <trovster> Then I also use #content-primary {} #content-secondary {} etc
  304. [09:09:04] <McNulty> maybe I'll mention that on the mailing list
  305. [09:11:11] <mfbot> [[what-are-microformats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=what-are-microformats-fr&diff=0&oldid=9854 * ChristopheDucamp * (+4950) translation - synchro - work in progress
  306. [09:11:21] <cbarrett> oh neat
  307. [09:11:21] <trovster> McNulty: Pm you?
  308. [09:11:24] <cbarrett> <price>
  309. [09:12:19] <McNulty> trovster - sure, can't guarantee it'll work though
  310. [09:13:19] <drewinthehead> http://blog.johnmckerrell.com/2006/10/23/microformats-tails-export-bluetooth/
  311. [09:13:47] <McNulty> trovster - see my reply?
  312. [09:13:51] <trovster> nope
  313. [09:14:12] <McNulty> gah, happened last time. Gaim's fault...
  314. [09:15:26] <McNulty> Are you on any of the IM services I'm on? http://ciaranmcnulty.com/contact
  315. [09:16:28] <trovster> I'll ring ya ;)
  316. [09:16:33] <trovster> Or fax it over! heh
  317. [09:16:43] <McNulty> :-)
  318. [09:16:47] <cbarrett> drewinthehead: nice
  319. [09:16:50] <McNulty> That number doesn't come through
  320. [09:17:12] <McNulty> drewinthehead - that's 'mcknut'
  321. [09:17:34] <drewinthehead> ah, ace :)
  322. [09:18:08] <drewinthehead> i'm bad with names ... doubly so when IRC aliases get added to the mix
  323. [09:18:14] <trovster> hmm, the email export is busted :(
  324. [09:18:23] <trovster> McNulty, sorry, on your vCard
  325. [09:18:34] <McNulty> He was talking a little about it in channel last couple of days
  326. [09:18:53] <McNulty> trovster - oh, is it marked up wrong?
  327. [09:18:56] <trovster> Why not just <a href="" class="email">...?
  328. [09:19:25] <trovster> email (type, value) ... mmm seems to be right
  329. [09:20:43] <McNulty> what's exporting wrong about it?
  330. [09:21:04] <McNulty> mcknut was saying he was intending to update the XSL with a more recent X2V
  331. [09:21:22] <mfbot> [[what-are-microformats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=what-are-microformats-fr&diff=0&oldid=9855 * ChristopheDucamp * (+194) Richard Quick -
  332. [09:22:14] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  333. [09:22:42] <trovster> Email: Email me at my home address, mail@ciaranmcnulty.com. -- in tails
  334. [09:23:11] <McNulty> huh
  335. [09:23:20] <McNulty> X2V outputs EMAIL:mail@ciaranmcnulty.com
  336. [09:23:22] <McNulty> which seems ok
  337. [09:23:28] <trovster> Yeh, Tails give me the above
  338. [09:24:11] <McNulty> mcknut seemed to think he could drop in the latest X2V XSL fairly easily
  339. [09:24:13] <mfbot> [[what-are-microformats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=what-are-microformats-fr&diff=0&oldid=9856 * ChristopheDucamp * (-1) Richard Quick -
  340. [09:25:05] <trovster> He's the guy who writes Tails?
  341. [09:25:18] <McNulty> no he's modified it a bit lately
  342. [09:25:24] <McNulty> he added send via bluetooth
  343. [09:25:30] <trovster> ahk,
  344. [09:25:32] <McNulty> which works surprisingly well
  345. [09:25:32] <kapowaz> anyone seen that thing on 37signals about installing script debugger?
  346. [09:25:45] <kapowaz> I'm not sure whether or not I'm laughing or crying
  347. [09:25:56] * vant_ (n=vant@FLH1Aav125.isk.mesh.ad.jp) has joined #microformats
  348. [09:25:59] <mfbot> [[xfolk-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk-fr&diff=0&oldid=9857 * ChristopheDucamp * (+81) Implémentations -
  349. [09:26:33] <cbarrett> hm
  350. [09:26:55] <cbarrett> what UAs support some of the HTML5 stuff?
  351. [09:26:59] <cbarrett> like webforms2
  352. [09:28:30] <mfbot> [[xfolk-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk-fr&diff=0&oldid=9858 * ChristopheDucamp * (+376) Implémentations -
  353. [09:30:22] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Aav125.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  354. [09:32:22] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
  355. [09:32:37] <mcknut> hi, drewinthehead did you just get that from stuart?
  356. [09:33:13] <mcknut> and, yeah, I thought I could just drop the XSL in easily, but there was a slight issue which I didn't have time to look at last night
  357. [09:33:37] <mcknut> (slight issue being, it no longer worked!)
  358. [09:33:37] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
  359. [09:33:50] <drewinthehead> yeah, mcknut ... he just pinged it over
  360. [09:34:03] <drewinthehead> on a rubber band from like 10 metres away
  361. [09:34:17] <mcknut> heh, was just chatting to him about it on MSN, I see he's mentioned it on his site
  362. [09:34:41] <mfbot> [[hcard-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=9859 * ChristopheDucamp * (+987) Nouveaux Exemples -
  363. [09:35:43] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  364. [09:35:45] * shigeta_ (n=shigeta@124x32x114x226.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
  365. [09:37:17] <mfbot> [[vcard-implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vcard-implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=9860 * ChristopheDucamp * (+15) importation unique -
  366. [09:38:11] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@hq.last.fm) has joined #microformats
  367. [09:38:55] * cbarrett was just talking about process and such
  368. [09:39:03] <cbarrett> uF has a great process that works quite well
  369. [09:39:12] <cbarrett> I think it's a nice model to follow.
  370. [09:39:30] <cbarrett> certainly it's been effective. uF started only a year or so ago, right?
  371. [09:40:03] <cbarrett> year and a half ago was when the wiki was created, according to mediawiki
  372. [09:40:38] <mfbot> [[vcard-implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vcard-implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=9861 * ChristopheDucamp * (+566)
  373. [09:54:54] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
  374. [10:01:55] * blueNine (n=tigger@host213-123-130-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit ("leaving")
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  376. [10:16:11] <drewinthehead> finally got round to posting about rel-lint http://allinthehead.com/retro/302/can-microformats-be-validated
  377. [10:18:15] <mfbot> [[citation-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-fr&diff=0&oldid=9862 * ChristopheDucamp * (+106) Informative References -
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  380. [10:50:34] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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  384. [11:25:55] * McNulty (n=ciaran@nat-195.157.130.52.maximalls.net) Quit ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
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  388. [11:39:59] * briansuda (n=briansud@thjodarbokhlada.hotspot.hive.is) has joined #microformats
  389. [11:40:00] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
  390. [11:40:00] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
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  395. [11:55:13] * danja (n=danja@host100-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
  396. [11:55:14] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
  397. [11:56:23] * charles_r_ (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  401. [12:09:09] <trovster> I was looking at one of the uF presentations for the WSG. Someone mentioned the flickr API and the fact more information can be gathered from the profile
  402. [12:09:12] * charlie_r (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  403. [12:10:10] <trovster> hmm, it's for the specific profile page, not the profile list. Looks like I can't do what I'd want to, oh well.
  404. [12:10:44] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable128.203-56-74.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  405. [12:10:44] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  406. [12:15:40] * danja (n=danja@host100-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit (No route to host)
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  408. [12:38:09] * McNulty (n=ciaran@nat-195.157.130.52.maximalls.net) has joined #microformats
  409. [12:38:09] <jibot> McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
  410. [12:39:10] <briansuda> McNulty, did you manage to check the Nokia vCard import?
  411. [12:39:59] <McNulty> briansuda - typing in the URL to the phone's browser works fine now
  412. [12:40:11] <briansuda> excellent
  413. [12:40:24] <McNulty> Thanks for modifying it so quickly
  414. [12:40:42] <briansuda> not a prob, i would assume the ics file is probably also effected, do you want to check that?
  415. [12:41:01] <McNulty> I can do, yeah
  416. [12:43:38] <McNulty> briansuda - yeah same error message, 'object type not supported'
  417. [12:43:54] <briansuda> ok, let me do a quick find and replace...
  418. [12:43:59] <mcknut> hey guys, afraid I didn't do much with the extension last night, dropping the XSL in doesn't work because it links to external files
  419. [12:44:19] <mcknut> and in the few seconds I looked, I couldn't see what had been done to handle that in the originals
  420. [12:47:03] <briansuda> ok, i have uploaded the new hCal XSLT, can you check it again?
  421. [12:48:26] <McNulty> checking...
  422. [12:48:50] <McNulty> looks ok to me!
  423. [12:49:13] <briansuda> excellent
  424. [12:49:28] <briansuda> once we get HG re-orgainzed, i'll commit them
  425. [12:50:51] <McNulty> fantastic
  426. [12:53:39] * imajes (n=imajes@growl/imajes) Quit ()
  427. [12:54:37] <McNulty> It's probably worth seeing if any other apps suddenly start complaining
  428. [12:55:14] <briansuda> true, but actually, we are new MORE correct in relation to the spec
  429. [13:02:49] <McNulty> briansuda - how far does X2V's include-pattern support go?
  430. [13:03:18] <briansuda> depends, it supports the object and 'a' include
  431. [13:03:31] <briansuda> but it is my interpretation, i think Tails does it slightly differently
  432. [13:07:07] * blueNine (n=tigger@host213-123-130-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #microformats
  433. [13:07:37] <McNulty> briansuda - can you see anything wrong with http://test.ciaranmcnulty.com/test-vcard.php ?
  434. [13:07:44] <McNulty> The include doesn't seem to work...
  435. [13:08:12] <briansuda> yup
  436. [13:08:17] <blueNine> Does anyone know if there a public domain vCard icon?
  437. [13:08:55] <briansuda> the way X2V interprets include is that it replaces the href=# with the children of the other id
  438. [13:08:55] <McNulty> 'yup'? :-)
  439. [13:09:13] <briansuda> since your id="first-url" has no children it doesn't do anything
  440. [13:09:19] <McNulty> aha!
  441. [13:09:21] <briansuda> you will need something like:
  442. [13:09:39] <briansuda> <div id="first-url"><a class="url" href="/">Link to this site</a>
  443. [13:09:39] <briansuda> </div>
  444. [13:09:44] <McNulty> Hm... there does seem to be a bit of a difference in the way include-pattern's interpreted
  445. [13:09:45] <McNulty> yeah I see...
  446. [13:10:05] <McNulty> hKit was happy with it, but had a different issue
  447. [13:10:07] <McNulty> hm, thanks
  448. [13:10:51] * drewinthehead stirs
  449. [13:11:01] <drewinthehead> someone say something? ah .. hKit :)
  450. [13:11:10] * ajturner_ (n=irc@d14-69-228-190.try.wideopenwest.com) has joined #microformats
  451. [13:11:17] <briansuda> we all do the include pattern slightly differently
  452. [13:11:26] <McNulty> briansuda - ok, I've got something that should work in both
  453. [13:11:30] * ajturner_ is now known as ajturner
  454. [13:11:33] <McNulty> drewinthehead - sorry, didn't mean to rouse you ;-)
  455. [13:12:06] <drewinthehead> forgiven ;)
  456. [13:13:16] <McNulty> I think I mentioned to you the bug I found with a.include...
  457. [13:13:54] <drewinthehead> yup, it's on my list
  458. [13:13:59] <McNulty> :-)
  459. [13:19:00] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  460. [13:19:00] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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  469. [14:40:33] <johnjosephbachir> i have a question
  470. [14:40:38] <johnjosephbachir> why h ?
  471. [14:42:52] <julianstahnke> yeah, that'd be interesting to know
  472. [14:43:26] <Frederic> h like html
  473. [14:43:29] <Frederic> I think
  474. [14:43:55] <julianstahnke> ah
  475. [14:44:00] <julianstahnke> makes sense
  476. [14:44:06] <Frederic> I've always thought about this
  477. [14:44:12] <Frederic> maybe I'm wrong but I doubt
  478. [14:49:48] <McNulty> does http://test.ciaranmcnulty.com/test-vcard-2.php look like a valid use of a.include?
  479. [14:51:28] <trovster> Heh, h for HTML
  480. [14:51:33] <trovster> Yeh* even!
  481. [14:51:43] <trovster> That's how I've always seen it
  482. [15:12:09] * Cloud_ (n=Cloud@deri-dmz2.nuigalway.ie) has joined #microformats
  483. [15:12:09] <jibot> Cloud_ is Cloud
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  487. [15:20:18] * cgriego (n=cgriego@e2.87.5d45.static.theplanet.com) has joined #Microformats
  488. [15:20:19] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
  489. [15:22:23] * Cloud (n=Cloud@deri-wg1-2.nuigalway.ie) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  493. [15:53:28] * bengee (n=bengee@muedsl-82-207-128-166.citykom.de) has joined #microformats
  494. [15:53:29] <jibot> bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
  495. [16:00:40] * McNulty (n=ciaran@nat-195.157.130.52.maximalls.net) has left #microformats
  496. [16:02:26] <KevinMarks> can I put do <div class="location vcard" > in a hCalendar event?
  497. [16:08:33] * Cloud_ (n=Cloud@deri-wg1-2.nuigalway.ie) has joined #microformats
  498. [16:08:33] <jibot> Cloud_ is Cloud
  499. [16:08:47] <kapowaz> in that case, what is Cloud?
  500. [16:10:31] * bear_afk is now known as bear
  501. [16:11:19] <Cloud_> :)
  502. [16:11:30] <Cloud_> Cloud is an impostor I tell you!
  503. [16:11:31] * Cloud (n=Cloud@deri-dmz2.nuigalway.ie) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
  504. [16:11:38] <Cloud_> Die impostor Cloud
  505. [16:11:39] * Cloud_ is now known as Cloud
  506. [16:11:40] <tantek> KevinMarks - I believe that example is covered in hcalendar-brainstorming and hcalendar-authoring
  507. [16:12:11] <tantek> as well as the Future of Web Apps preso http://microformats.org/wiki/presentations
  508. [16:15:29] <KevinMarks> i know it's covered somewhere, I just wanted a yes or no
  509. [16:16:23] <KevinMarks> and the answer is 'yes'
  510. [16:16:32] <KevinMarks> sometimes one bit is all I need
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  515. [16:28:28] * blueNine (n=tigger@host213-123-130-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit ("Yar!")
  516. [16:30:25] * bewest (n=ben@httpcraft/bewest) has joined #microformats
  517. [16:30:25] <jibot> bewest is Ben West and lives in San Francisco, CA. He daydreams about web style software, works at Alexa.com and blogs at http://bewest.wordpress.com/
  518. [16:32:20] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  519. [16:33:48] <cbarrett> ahoy
  520. [16:34:48] <bewest> aye
  521. [16:38:29] * drewinthehead (i=mclellan@nat/yahoo/x-8af43bf954a52d52) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  522. [16:44:23] <cbarrett> bewest: how goes?
  523. [16:45:12] <bewest> excellent
  524. [16:45:48] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  525. [16:56:16] * muffinresearch (i=scol@nat/yahoo/x-40220122d15ef9c7) Quit ()
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  532. [17:25:45] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  533. [17:25:47] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  534. [17:26:01] * iwaim_ (i=iwai@gateway.alib.jp) has joined #microformats
  535. [17:29:56] * remi (n=remi@dsl-152-145.aei.ca) has joined #microformats
  536. [17:29:56] <jibot> remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
  537. [17:41:13] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  538. [17:43:06] <cbarrett> ahoy
  539. [17:45:29] <ajturner> avast!
  540. [17:47:18] <bewest> where were you guys on "Talk-Like-a-Pirate Day"??
  541. [17:49:08] * divoxx (n=rodrigo@201.37.108.13) has joined #microformats
  542. [17:53:29] * charles_r_ (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  543. [17:57:32] <tantek> bewest, we were ARRRRRRRRound
  544. [17:58:30] * charles_r_ (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  545. [18:00:53] * hober2 (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
  546. [18:01:10] <cbarrett> ARRRRRRRR!
  547. [18:02:59] * shigeta (n=shigeta@137.147.210.220.dy.bbexcite.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
  548. [18:03:03] <bewest> what's a pirate's favorite branch of the military?
  549. [18:03:41] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Abj100.isk.mesh.ad.jp) has joined #microformats
  550. [18:04:07] <ajturner> the ARRRRRRRmy?
  551. [18:04:21] <bewest> no, the navy, silly... ARRRR
  552. [18:05:41] * Phae (n=Steven@dsl-62-3-104-101.zen.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  553. [18:05:41] <jibot> Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
  554. [18:06:24] * bengee (n=bengee@muedsl-82-207-128-166.citykom.de) Quit ("Leaving")
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  558. [18:23:25] * bear_afk is now known as bear
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  562. [18:39:15] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  563. [18:39:15] <jibot> drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
  564. [18:54:25] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  565. [18:54:53] * ChanServ sets mode +o KevinMarks
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  573. [19:17:13] * tommorris (n=tommorri@i-83-67-98-32.freedom2surf.net) has joined #microformats
  574. [19:21:02] <mfbot> [[include-pattern]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern&diff=0&oldid=9863 * Tantek * (+267) added scope
  575. [19:33:27] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  576. [19:33:27] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  577. [19:35:01] * charlie_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  578. [19:43:44] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-faq]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/include-pattern-faq * Tantek * (+479) drafted, added scope Q&A
  579. [19:44:58] <mcknut> evening chaps
  580. [19:45:16] <drewinthehead> evenin
  581. [19:45:36] <tantek> afternoon
  582. [19:46:13] <mcknut> does anyone on here have contact details for robert de bruin, the guy who did tails export originally?
  583. [19:51:30] * charles_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  584. [19:52:27] <mcknut> ah well, I'm trying to get brian's latest XSL in but having a few problems
  585. [19:53:06] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
  586. [19:56:56] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=9864 * AndyMabbett * (+1) Exploratory Discussions - added link
  587. [19:58:52] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=9865 * AndyMabbett * (+39) Exploratory Discussions - added links, rm/ abandoned suggestion
  588. [20:00:22] * danja (n=danja@host210-220-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
  589. [20:00:22] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
  590. [20:01:01] * blibbet (n=blibbet_@pool-71-112-90-208.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #microformats
  591. [20:11:54] <Whafro> ot, but has anyone here been involved in an information architecture project for a very large (read: lots of data of several different types) site?
  592. [20:13:38] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  593. [20:16:25] <mcknut> possibly.. yeah
  594. [20:16:38] <mcknut> guess it depends what you mean by "lots"
  595. [20:18:16] <Whafro> how long did that take? I'm just looking to roughly scope a timeframe that allows for some serious IA work...
  596. [20:19:18] <mcknut> ah right, wasn't recent, and I wasn't particularly practiced when we did it
  597. [20:20:14] <Whafro> the site might well be compared to a major magazine (think GQ) that includes all of its articles, sells everything it advertises directly, and provides some amazon.com-like social aspects to each of those bits of content...
  598. [20:21:41] <mcknut> well, we launched after 3-4 months, but work continued afterwards
  599. [20:22:24] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) has joined #microformats
  600. [20:22:24] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
  601. [20:22:37] <Whafro> mmhmm
  602. [20:22:38] <mfbot> [[include-pattern]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern&diff=0&oldid=9866 * ScottReynen * (-211) object include example - Removed first note on scope, made redundant by new scope section
  603. [20:28:14] * Phae (n=Steven@dsl-62-3-104-101.zen.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  604. [20:28:14] <jibot> Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
  605. [20:28:47] * _psychic__ is now known as _psychic_
  606. [20:30:27] <mfbot> [[species]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species&diff=0&oldid=9867 * AndyMabbett * (+135) See also - Biobar
  607. [20:32:21] <mfbot> [[species]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species&diff=0&oldid=9868 * AndyMabbett * (+101) See also - more on Biobar
  608. [20:35:18] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Abj100.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
  609. [20:51:21] <mfbot> [[species]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species&diff=0&oldid=9869 * AndyMabbett * (+11) See also -
  610. [21:01:23] * bear_afk is now known as bear_mtg
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  617. [21:39:27] * bear_mtg is now known as bear
  618. [21:42:15] <mfbot> [[include-pattern]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern&diff=0&oldid=9870 * Tantek * (+320) added restrictions section to emphasize the specific technical implications of the scope
  619. [21:43:51] <mfbot> [[species]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species&diff=0&oldid=9871 * AndyMabbett * (+14) See also - oh yes it is...
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  625. [22:05:01] <factoryjoe> opinions? http://www.factorycity.net/projects/microformats-icons/
  626. [22:12:26] * ajturner (n=irc@d14-69-228-190.try.wideopenwest.com) Quit ()
  627. [22:13:09] <hober2> ooooh
  628. [22:14:03] <hober2> People seem to have roughly converged on green for ical buttons (eventful, google calendar, etc.)
  629. [22:14:12] <hober2> so I'd change the color of the hcal one maybe
  630. [22:14:17] <hober2> I love the hatom one
  631. [22:14:53] <hober2> I like the subtle differences between the various xfn ones
  632. [22:15:56] <hober2> what's the significance of the curved-arrowy-dude in the hresume one?
  633. [22:15:59] <tantek> not sure about the "me" one - seems like a waste
  634. [22:16:12] <tantek> of an icon
  635. [22:16:18] <tantek> which could be used more generically
  636. [22:22:41] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host217-42-133-100.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  637. [22:22:42] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
  638. [22:29:30] <factoryjoe> tantek: ok..
  639. [22:29:44] <factoryjoe> it seems like it would be useful to have though
  640. [22:30:03] <tantek> yeah - not sure what an icon for "this is another aspect/facet of me" would look like
  641. [22:30:07] <factoryjoe> like in a blogroll, to be able to see which blogs are also by the same author graphicall
  642. [22:30:08] <factoryjoe> y
  643. [22:30:12] <factoryjoe> mm
  644. [22:30:14] <KevinMarks> a mirror?
  645. [22:30:21] <tantek> seems like a logical grouping would be better
  646. [22:30:27] <tantek> than iconic chartjunk
  647. [22:30:47] <factoryjoe> logical grouping? like what?
  648. [22:31:06] <factoryjoe> hober2: do you have links to those ical icons you mentioned?
  649. [22:32:01] <hober2> yeah, hold on a sec
  650. [22:32:03] <tantek> chris - just as an example: http://tantek.com/
  651. [22:32:16] <tantek> i put mine in a section called "Identity facets"
  652. [22:32:37] <tantek> it makes sense to logically distinguish "my stuff" vs. "my peeps' stuff"
  653. [22:33:11] <factoryjoe> yeah
  654. [22:33:14] <factoryjoe> hmm
  655. [22:33:29] <factoryjoe> well, it would be contextually styled
  656. [22:33:38] <factoryjoe> so the use of these icons would be in blog posts
  657. [22:33:42] <factoryjoe> not in blogrolls
  658. [22:33:56] <factoryjoe> at least for rel=me
  659. [22:34:05] <hober2> e.g., http://eventful.com/images/skin/ical.gif
  660. [22:34:31] <tantek> ah interesting - when you link inside a post to a part of yourself someplace else
  661. [22:34:44] <factoryjoe> right
  662. [22:34:47] <factoryjoe> that's what i do
  663. [22:34:56] <factoryjoe> when i link to my own blog posts i use rel-me
  664. [22:34:58] * hober2 is now known as hober
  665. [22:35:05] <factoryjoe> it's like declaring my self-promotion
  666. [22:35:10] <factoryjoe> or self-link-love
  667. [22:35:12] <factoryjoe> ;)
  668. [22:35:17] <factoryjoe> it's a type of disclosure
  669. [22:35:17] <tantek> transparently like
  670. [22:35:38] <tantek> yeah, see notes/posts/photos from last night's Social Media Club event
  671. [22:35:44] <factoryjoe> link?
  672. [22:36:31] <tantek> http://technorati.com/search/%22Social%20Media%20Club%22
  673. [22:36:50] <tantek> I suggested that as part of disclosure, bloggers should use XFN when linking to friends etc.
  674. [22:37:01] <factoryjoe> yeah
  675. [22:37:08] <factoryjoe> well that's why we wanted XBN
  676. [22:37:12] <factoryjoe> for business relations
  677. [22:37:22] <factoryjoe> XPN for political affiliations (similar to rel-group)
  678. [22:37:48] <tantek> why does it need to be separate?
  679. [22:37:57] <tantek> rel-group covers that already doesn't it?
  680. [22:37:59] <factoryjoe> well -- the idea of contextual sets
  681. [22:38:08] <tantek> and if you mean simple ideological statements - then that is tagging
  682. [22:38:09] <factoryjoe> rel-group does cover most "affiliations"
  683. [22:38:25] <factoryjoe> well
  684. [22:38:26] <tantek> e.g. tagging yourself as a "libertarian" but not wanting to say that you belong to the Libertarian Party
  685. [22:38:27] <factoryjoe> what about this?
  686. [22:38:39] <factoryjoe> I went to Universal Unitarian Church dinner last night.
  687. [22:38:54] <tantek> did you avoid the punch?
  688. [22:39:00] <factoryjoe> on my blog: "I went to <a href=foo" rel="member">Universal Unitarian Church</a> dinner last night."
  689. [22:39:06] <factoryjoe> heh
  690. [22:39:09] <factoryjoe> i drank the koolaid
  691. [22:39:12] <tantek> no rel="group"
  692. [22:39:15] <tantek> *you* are the member
  693. [22:39:16] <factoryjoe> really?
  694. [22:39:19] <tantek> they are the "group" relative to you
  695. [22:39:21] <factoryjoe> oh right
  696. [22:39:23] <tantek> think rel="stylesheet"
  697. [22:39:29] <tantek> always go back to that example if you are confused
  698. [22:39:31] <factoryjoe> "I went to <a href=foo" rev="member">Universal Unitarian Church</a> dinner last night."
  699. [22:39:37] <factoryjoe> that's what i meant
  700. [22:39:39] <tantek> no don't use rev
  701. [22:39:42] <factoryjoe> heh
  702. [22:39:44] <tantek> it's too confusing to most
  703. [22:39:49] <factoryjoe> well ok, hold on
  704. [22:39:51] <tantek> I'm beginning to agree with Hixie on that
  705. [22:39:54] <factoryjoe> i get rel="group"
  706. [22:39:58] <factoryjoe> however
  707. [22:40:05] <factoryjoe> that only says what it is, not that i'm a member
  708. [22:40:19] <tantek> no you are exactly incorrect ;)
  709. [22:40:24] <factoryjoe> mm
  710. [22:40:32] <tantek> rel *only* describes the relationship
  711. [22:40:37] <tantek> rel does not "tag" it as a group
  712. [22:40:47] <tantek> rel does not say what it is, except to you
  713. [22:41:10] <tantek> rel="group" *only* says that you claim that thing to be a group that you belong to
  714. [22:41:31] <factoryjoe> ok
  715. [22:41:33] <factoryjoe> got it
  716. [22:41:39] <factoryjoe> well
  717. [22:41:44] <yakk> all this is so much clearer in RDF... ;-)
  718. [22:41:53] <factoryjoe> here's another interesting opportunity for and X#N
  719. [22:42:00] <factoryjoe> what about object relationships?
  720. [22:42:05] <factoryjoe> like one book to another?
  721. [22:42:10] <factoryjoe> i know this is what RDF is for
  722. [22:42:17] <factoryjoe> but clearly, we want to do this in html
  723. [22:42:18] * yakk does not attempt to paste the FOAF required to express that into channel...
  724. [22:42:24] <factoryjoe> heh
  725. [22:42:47] <factoryjoe> like
  726. [22:42:51] <factoryjoe> two library books
  727. [22:42:58] <factoryjoe> that are related
  728. [22:43:01] <factoryjoe> or even in amazon
  729. [22:43:24] <factoryjoe> being able to express object relationships like people do seems useful
  730. [22:44:00] <factoryjoe> or even rel="owns"
  731. [22:44:00] <yakk> it feels like that's fairly domain-specific
  732. [22:44:13] * factoryjoe rel-owns yakk
  733. [22:44:21] <yakk> I mean, from a page about one to another any link implies some kind of relationship
  734. [22:44:27] <yakk> where's rel="0wnz"
  735. [22:45:02] <tantek> yakk - actually it's not cleaner in RDF - guaranteed it takes more bytes to say it, and probably more URLs too
  736. [22:45:39] <tantek> factoryjoe, what do you mean by "clearly we want to do this in html"?
  737. [22:45:50] <tantek> do you have examples researched that demonstrated that people are already doing it on the web?
  738. [22:46:07] <tantek> without that, you are merely wasting your time on theoreticals
  739. [22:46:20] <tantek> "seems useful" is a good warning sign
  740. [22:46:42] <yakk> factoryjoe, amazon links to other editions, citations, and related books...
  741. [22:46:45] <tantek> yakk, we could do rel="pwnd" just for you
  742. [22:47:12] <yakk> tantek, we've got to get the script kiddies using microformats. they're our future!
  743. [22:47:13] <tantek> for linking to people that you have pwnd, either in an online space, or in a videogame etc.
  744. [22:47:18] <factoryjoe> i have been in touch w/ a potentially large inter-library project that aims to expose the index of library materials from all the libraries in north america
  745. [22:47:31] <factoryjoe> they want to use microformats to mark up this data
  746. [22:47:37] <tantek> factoryjoe - I direct you to the citation efforts
  747. [22:47:46] <yakk> factoryjoe, cool - who is that? did you go to the internet librarians conference in monterey this week?
  748. [22:47:47] <tantek> please make sure you are sync'd up with those folks
  749. [22:47:59] <factoryjoe> i didn't, but they're presenting at it
  750. [22:48:00] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@hq.last.fm) has joined #microformats
  751. [22:48:06] <factoryjoe> ok
  752. [22:48:11] <tantek> they've done a lot of work already - don't reinvent what they've done
  753. [22:48:13] <factoryjoe> i've loosely followed the citation work
  754. [22:48:15] <factoryjoe> indeed
  755. [22:48:18] <factoryjoe> i don't intend to
  756. [22:48:21] <tantek> be efficient with your time and reuse others' work
  757. [22:48:22] <factoryjoe> i'll have to study up
  758. [22:48:26] <factoryjoe> of course
  759. [22:48:26] <tantek> yes
  760. [22:49:38] <factoryjoe> well
  761. [22:49:40] <factoryjoe> back to the icons
  762. [22:49:51] <factoryjoe> do you still think the rel-me icon isn't useful outside the blogroll context?
  763. [22:52:21] <tantek> it is too ambiguous
  764. [22:53:36] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  765. [22:53:36] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  766. [22:53:52] <factoryjoe> ok
  767. [22:54:05] <tantek> still - as with all works in progress
  768. [22:54:14] <tantek> just add a link to that stuff to /wiki/buttons
  769. [22:54:23] <tantek> and people can give feedback and have improvements happen iteratively
  770. [22:54:58] <factoryjoe> k
  771. [22:55:13] <factoryjoe> was planning on doing so but wanted early feedback in case there were any obvious problems.
  772. [22:57:15] * BenWard (n=BenWard@86.111.176.67) has joined #microformats
  773. [22:57:15] <jibot> BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk (+0000/+0100 GMT)
  774. [22:58:07] <tantek> I do like the emphasis on the human character
  775. [22:58:24] <tantek> the hAtom icon in particular, with the human and feed, quite an interesting juxtaposition
  776. [22:58:42] <tantek> though I might interpret that as an icon representing a feed of everything about that person
  777. [22:59:02] <tantek> "Download hCard" doesn't make sense does it?
  778. [22:59:50] <factoryjoe> well
  779. [22:59:56] <factoryjoe> not totally, i agree
  780. [23:00:00] <factoryjoe> i think they're alternatives
  781. [23:00:10] <factoryjoe> depending on how you send the mime type?
  782. [23:00:21] <tantek> that's very bad
  783. [23:00:23] <factoryjoe> i mean, when you click a vcard link, it downloads a file
  784. [23:00:27] <tantek> UI based on mimetypes/pipes is very bad
  785. [23:00:31] <factoryjoe> heh
  786. [23:00:35] <tantek> user interface should never make the user have to deal with the pipes
  787. [23:00:40] <factoryjoe> well, we don't have to use the download icon
  788. [23:00:43] <tantek> like the whole comments vs. trackbacks thing
  789. [23:00:54] <tantek> they're just different plumbing for the same user functionality
  790. [23:01:05] <tantek> distinguishing them in the UI not only makes no sense, but is bad
  791. [23:01:18] <tantek> confusing users with unnecessary technical implementation details
  792. [23:01:27] <factoryjoe> not exactly
  793. [23:01:37] <factoryjoe> i'd rather not get into that discussion now though
  794. [23:01:47] <factoryjoe> point taken about downloading an hcard though
  795. [23:01:52] <factoryjoe> err vcard
  796. [23:01:57] <tantek> users should not have to worry about the plumbing - that's pretty fundamental
  797. [23:02:10] <factoryjoe> indeed
  798. [23:02:12] <factoryjoe> i agree
  799. [23:02:15] <tantek> I don't understand the hResume icon
  800. [23:02:20] <factoryjoe> CV?
  801. [23:02:30] <factoryjoe> or the round arrow?
  802. [23:02:31] <tantek> what is the looping arrow for?
  803. [23:02:44] <factoryjoe> it's an alternative subscription indicator
  804. [23:02:47] <tantek> looping arrow means "reload"
  805. [23:02:52] <factoryjoe> yeah...
  806. [23:03:04] <factoryjoe> we could use the wireless waves
  807. [23:03:05] <tantek> so that's suboptimal
  808. [23:03:21] <tantek> how about a little mini factory icon ? :)
  809. [23:03:31] <tantek> to indicate "work"
  810. [23:03:43] <tantek> the xfn one is a button, not an icon
  811. [23:04:09] <factoryjoe> well there's no real need for an xfn icon or button
  812. [23:04:14] * _psychic_ (n=_psychic@71.32.228.156) Quit ()
  813. [23:04:22] <BenWard> Sorry to interrupt guys, can someone quickly link me to the IRC log for this conversation? I came in half way through and it sounds interesting g:)
  814. [23:04:28] <factoryjoe> ical describes a bunch of data, usually in a div or span
  815. [23:04:33] <factoryjoe> xfn is in each link
  816. [23:04:39] <factoryjoe> xoxo might be better
  817. [23:04:57] <factoryjoe> oh yeah, what happened to the topic link to the archives?
  818. [23:05:20] <tantek> and not very original: http://gmpg.org/xfn/xfn-mini.gif
  819. [23:06:00] <tantek> odd
  820. [23:07:17] <factoryjoe> odd?
  821. [23:08:21] <tantek> odd that the topic changed
  822. [23:08:56] <tantek> hey factoryjoe - do you have the link for people to buy microformats tshirts?
  823. [23:10:12] <factoryjoe> goodstorm.com/stores/factorycity
  824. [23:10:13] <factoryjoe> i think
  825. [23:10:17] <factoryjoe> lemme check
  826. [23:11:22] <factoryjoe> BenWard: http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/
  827. [23:11:31] <factoryjoe> tantek: seen the new rails restful stuff?
  828. [23:11:31] <BenWard> Thank you Chris.
  829. [23:11:52] <factoryjoe> np
  830. [23:15:14] <mfbot> [[spread-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=spread-microformats&diff=0&oldid=9872 * Tantek * (+359) added tshirts section with links to store, Flickr photos, and Second Life sighting of microformats tshirt!
  831. [23:16:01] <factoryjoe> ha!
  832. [23:20:06] <tantek> yeah totally - thanks to Ryan King for the SL sighting link
  833. [23:22:16] <mfbot> [[spread-microformats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=spread-microformats&diff=0&oldid=9873 * Tantek * (+95) microformatstshirt clusters are fun
  834. [23:24:37] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  835. [23:24:38] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
  836. [23:25:25] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has left #microformats
  837. [23:25:46] * tantek changes topic to 'add yourself to http://microformats.org/wiki/irc-people || about the channel: http://microformats.org/wiki/irc || archives: http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/'
  838. [23:25:58] <tantek> there we go
  839. [23:28:02] * tantek pops the stack and returns to icons.
  840. [23:28:11] <factoryjoe> stack?
  841. [23:28:17] <factoryjoe> i'm editing that page
  842. [23:28:22] <tantek> stack of interruptions that I've received recently
  843. [23:28:25] <tantek> which page?
  844. [23:28:32] <factoryjoe> icons
  845. [23:28:32] <tantek> your icons page?
  846. [23:28:39] <tantek> should I reload?
  847. [23:28:52] <tantek> the "TAG" icon is similarly just a button
  848. [23:29:06] <factoryjoe> i know
  849. [23:29:10] <factoryjoe> i haven't finished yet
  850. [23:29:12] <factoryjoe> gimme another 5
  851. [23:29:35] <tantek> r u seperating buttons vs. icons?
  852. [23:30:00] <factoryjoe> i could
  853. [23:30:04] <factoryjoe> i wasn't going to
  854. [23:30:11] <factoryjoe> only going to call out "web" icons
  855. [23:30:22] <factoryjoe> and then offer them by microformat
  856. [23:30:33] <factoryjoe> i'll finish up and then we can retool it
  857. [23:30:54] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  858. [23:31:04] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable128.203-56-74.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  859. [23:31:04] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  860. [23:34:09] <tantek> yes I think it is useful to distinguish icons vs. buttons/badges
  861. [23:35:47] <mfbot> [[User talk:WikiBoomer]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User_talk:WikiBoomer * WikiBoomer * (+51258)
  862. [23:36:11] <tantek> ooh that's an awful lot for a user page
  863. [23:36:53] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:WikiBoomer" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
  864. [23:36:59] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) deleted "User talk:WikiBoomer": spam
  865. [23:37:20] <tantek> badabing badaBOOM WikiBoomer
  866. [23:38:17] <yakk> I can put the vcard "class" on my <body> if my vcard elements are going to be all over the page, right?
  867. [23:38:32] * yakk wonders why he put class in quotes
  868. [23:38:56] <tantek> yakk, often people refer to attributes with quotes, more often with single quotes
  869. [23:39:00] <tantek> e.g. the 'class' attribute
  870. [23:39:11] <tantek> more understandable to more people than
  871. [23:39:11] <yakk> that makes sense
  872. [23:39:12] <tantek> @class
  873. [23:39:15] <yakk> true
  874. [23:40:35] <factoryjoe> do your question
  875. [23:40:36] <factoryjoe> no
  876. [23:40:38] <factoryjoe> you can't
  877. [23:40:57] <factoryjoe> unless your entire page will have only one hcard in it
  878. [23:40:59] <factoryjoe> wait
  879. [23:41:01] <factoryjoe> i am perfectly incorrect
  880. [23:41:12] <factoryjoe> i read multiple vcards
  881. [23:41:18] <factoryjoe> so i'm wrong
  882. [23:41:28] <factoryjoe> carry on, and yes <body class=vcard"> should be fine
  883. [23:41:56] <yakk> ok
  884. [23:42:04] <yakk> its for my home page
  885. [23:42:16] <yakk> so I realised that actually I want to make my <address> a vcard, right?
  886. [23:42:17] <tantek> as long as you just have one hCard - that's fine
  887. [23:42:20] <yakk> s/vcard/hcard/
  888. [23:42:23] <tantek> y
  889. [23:43:21] * sreynen (n=sreynen@71-214-242-108.desm.qwest.net) has joined #microformats
  890. [23:43:22] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
  891. [23:43:28] <factoryjoe> <address> is appropriate for the age author
  892. [23:43:33] <factoryjoe> age --> page
  893. [23:43:44] * bewest (n=ben@httpcraft/bewest) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  894. [23:50:01] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  895. [23:51:47] * bewest (n=ben@httpcraft/bewest) has joined #microformats
  896. [23:57:24] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit ("nil")

These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.

See http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot for more information.