IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-10-26
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [00:11:01] <julianstahnke>
hello guys, I'm working for www.last.fm and we're working to get some microformat stuff going
- [00:11:26] <bewest>
neat
- [00:12:25] * bewest would guess hReview, in particular?
- [00:12:28] <bewest>
perhaps rel-tag?
- [00:12:45] <julianstahnke>
yeah, rel-tag is already implemented
- [00:12:47] <bewest>
maybe even hCard for users
- [00:13:05] <julianstahnke>
yeah, we're going to have events soon and are implementing hCalendar
- [00:13:10] <julianstahnke>
and hCard for venues
- [00:13:49] <bewest>
you're implenting events from scratch?
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- [00:13:55] <bewest>
gah implementing
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- [00:14:13] <julianstahnke>
yes
- [00:14:15] * bewest would have used one of the many pre-existing events services like upcoming or eventful
- [00:14:29] <bewest>
but yeah, hCalendar is apropriate there
- [00:14:29] <julianstahnke>
yeah, we're using many feeds and stuff
- [00:14:33] <julianstahnke>
and try to work with them
- [00:14:41] <bewest>
cool
- [00:15:03] <bewest>
do you know about pingerati? a place to send events and whatnot
- [00:15:08] <bewest>
events and contacts
- [00:15:25] <julianstahnke>
ah, I only knew the kitchen.technorati stuff
- [00:15:29] <bewest>
although tantek and KevinMarks are the people to talk to regarding pingerati
- [00:16:53] <julianstahnke>
uh nice, a co-worker was just trying to get that working somehow
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- [00:26:36] <julianstahnke>
I've a question. we have listings of events and individual event pages. I marked up both as vcalendar, the url in the listings links to the proper full event page ... is that the way to go?
- [00:27:15] <julianstahnke>
(hCalendar, that is)
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- [01:25:22] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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- [01:37:00] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [01:37:03] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [01:37:49] <mfbot>
[[xfolk]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk&diff=0&oldid=9851 * Jinnan * (+77) Implementations -
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- [04:09:04] <mfbot>
[[what-are-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=what-are-microformats&diff=0&oldid=9852 * RichQuick * (+4342) Added another definition of microformats
- [04:21:01] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Aav125.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [04:42:41] <Frederic>
morning
- [04:46:05] <factoryjoe>
mornin
- [04:53:36] <Frederic>
hi chris
- [04:53:54] <factoryjoe>
hi
- [04:54:24] <csarven>
anyone aware of an extension that picks up a hCalendar and export to Google Calendar?
- [04:54:43] <csarven>
firefox
- [04:58:45] * bear is now known as bear_afk
- [04:58:46] <vant_>
not an extension but a script for greasemonkey http://greasemonkey.makedatamakesense.com/google_hcalendar/
- [05:02:41] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
- [05:02:42] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
- [05:04:01] <csarven>
neat. thanks vant_
- [05:12:17] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
- [05:12:17] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [05:12:35] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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- [06:14:23] <jibot>
bewest is Ben West and lives in San Francisco, CA. He daydreams about web style software, works at Alexa.com and blogs at http://bewest.wordpress.com/
- [06:14:37] <bewest>
anyone going to "Web.20"?
- [06:14:49] <bewest>
conference in a couple weeks in SF?
- [06:16:56] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
- [06:17:53] <KevinMarks>
I'm sure I'll be there
- [06:19:11] * bewest is debating whether or not to go
- [06:19:24] <bewest>
how do they decide who speaks at these things?
- [06:19:25] <KevinMarks>
are you nearby?
- [06:19:31] * bewest is in SF
- [06:19:50] <bewest>
my employer will pay for two conferences per year
- [06:19:51] <KevinMarks>
well, I just wander in and say hi
- [06:20:01] <KevinMarks>
but then I know the organisers
- [06:20:36] <bewest>
KevinMarks: yes... how did you get to know them?
- [06:20:47] <KevinMarks>
crashing their other conferences
- [06:20:56] <bewest>
hehe
- [06:21:10] <KevinMarks>
and attending some as a speaker...
- [06:21:56] <bewest>
yes... that leads back to my earlier question
- [06:22:16] <bewest>
you and tantek and some others 'round here sometimes speak at these things
- [06:22:43] <KevinMarks>
well, we spoke at etech 2004 by setting up an evening unconference thing
- [06:24:15] <KevinMarks>
liekwise etech 2003, come to thin of it
- [06:24:33] <bewest>
how many conferences a year do you attend?
- [06:24:40] <KevinMarks>
that was in SJ, and I turned up in the vening for the social software get-together
- [06:24:56] <KevinMarks>
and went to Danny O'Brien's 'Emerging Man'
- [06:25:04] <KevinMarks>
which was the prototypical Foo Camp
- [06:25:54] * vant_ (n=vant@FLH1Aav125.isk.mesh.ad.jp) has joined #microformats
- [06:26:39] <KevinMarks>
http://www.craphound.com/images/etcon2003pix/etcon2003pix-Pages/Image40.html
- [06:27:21] <bewest>
beers and coding can be dangerous ;-)
- [06:28:03] <KevinMarks>
my advice is to just show up
- [06:28:24] <KevinMarks>
worst case you cna hang around the lobby
- [06:28:43] <bewest>
heh, the entry isn't such a big deal
- [06:28:45] <KevinMarks>
but usually you can join in
- [06:28:54] <bewest>
I dunno about most folks but I have work to oblige
- [06:29:54] <KevinMarks>
the conversation at these thinsg should be good for your job
- [06:30:25] <bewest>
so this is a good one to go to?
- [06:30:26] * bengee (n=bengee@muedsl-82-207-128-166.citykom.de) has joined #microformats
- [06:30:26] <jibot>
bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
- [06:30:30] <bewest>
there are so many conferences
- [06:30:38] <KevinMarks>
yes, web2.0 is good
- [06:30:59] <KevinMarks>
most O'R ones are pretty good
- [06:34:53] * bewest read KevinMarks' congress bans myspace post
- [06:35:17] * bewest rubs his eyes in disbelief
- [06:35:36] <KevinMarks>
make sure you vote
- [06:35:45] <KevinMarks>
and call your representatives
- [06:35:57] <bewest>
I have to call?
- [06:35:58] <bewest>
hmmm
- [06:36:13] <KevinMarks>
well, I'm an alien, they don't listen to me
- [06:36:34] <bewest>
does it have to be me speaking?
- [06:37:04] <bewest>
if I call a phone number, and a machine picks up and then completes the call on my behalf, is that good?
- [06:37:30] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Aav125.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [06:39:11] <bewest>
USF tax on VOIP???
- [06:39:39] <KevinMarks>
scary, no?
- [06:40:51] <bewest>
a bit, yeah....
- [06:41:03] <bewest>
combined with Bush saying he uses "the google"
- [06:44:06] * bewest notices there was a "bar camp paris"
- [06:44:24] * bewest should have gotten his company to pay for that one
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- [07:00:36] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
- [07:02:30] <KevinMarks>
definite;y go to the barcamps
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- [07:10:13] <Frederic>
bewest: are you in Paris ?
- [07:11:21] <bewest>
no
- [07:11:43] <bewest>
Frederic: I'm in san francisco. I've never been to paris.
- [07:12:17] <Frederic>
Oh OK, because you wre talking about barcamp paris
- [07:13:07] <bewest>
Frederic: yes, my company will pay for two conferences a year ;-)
- [07:13:08] <factoryjoe>
oh?
- [07:13:38] <Frederic>
hehe
- [07:14:05] <Frederic>
bewest: I've been talking about microformats at 4 barcamps here, we have lots of sponsors
- [07:14:22] <bewest>
factoryjoe: http://barcamp.org/BarCampParis4
- [07:14:37] <Frederic>
bewest: that's an old one
- [07:15:06] <Frederic>
I think we've had 2 or 3 more barcamps here
- [07:15:14] <bewest>
since then?
- [07:15:30] <bewest>
I was just looking at http://microformats.org/wiki/events
- [07:16:17] <Frederic>
Yes, but I had to much work to really get into them
- [07:16:18] <bewest>
if I like french movies, would I like francophone bar camps?
- [07:16:51] <Frederic>
Don't know, I don't like movies but I like talking at barcamps
- [07:16:57] <bewest>
hehehe
- [07:17:32] <Frederic>
The barcamp paris 4 microformats presentation was overrcrowded, ew had to move into a bigger room
- [07:17:45] <bewest>
nice
- [07:20:06] * bewest just noticed it's way past "bedtime"
- [07:20:27] <bewest>
'night all
- [07:20:59] <Frederic>
night
- [07:21:06] <Frederic>
It's time to start working here
- [07:21:21] <bewest>
microformats never sleep
- [07:21:29] <bewest>
the sun never sets on microformats
- [07:21:31] <bewest>
erm
- [07:21:35] <factoryjoe>
the french are nice
- [07:21:40] <bewest>
the sun never sets on microformateers
- [07:21:50] <factoryjoe>
this is true
- [07:21:52] <factoryjoe>
nor on barcamp
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- [07:55:58] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
- [07:56:35] * McNulty (n=ciaran@nat-195.157.130.52.maximalls.net) has joined #microformats
- [07:56:35] <jibot>
McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
- [07:56:42] <McNulty>
morning all
- [07:57:28] <mcknut>
morning
- [08:02:47] <mfbot>
[[what-are-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=what-are-microformats&diff=0&oldid=9853 * AndyMabbett * (+89) Richard Quick - superb!
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- [08:24:13] <jibot>
drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
- [08:24:29] <McNulty>
Hello drew, I listened to your talk on the way to work
- [08:24:32] <McNulty>
Very interesting
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- [08:24:39] <drewinthehead>
hey McNulty
- [08:24:56] <drewinthehead>
a bit stilted i thought :)
- [08:25:16] <McNulty>
I was slightly surprised you didn't use the word REST at all, at the end there.
- [08:25:40] <drewinthehead>
there were lots of words i didn't use :D
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- [08:29:30] <McNulty>
I was glad I'd glanced at the slides earlire
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- [08:45:56] <SvperPhly>
I've been thinking about a new use for microformats
- [08:46:36] <SvperPhly>
you know how you add a lot of crap to your page for navigation, title of website, ads, blog roll, search box, external site links, w3c link, etc?
- [08:46:57] <SvperPhly>
well, that really doesn't pertain much to the actual topic of the page...
- [08:46:59] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [08:47:35] <SvperPhly>
for instance: http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/10/25/argentina.iran.ap/index.html
- [08:47:48] <cbarrett>
drewinthehead: I like your naming of hKit btw :)
- [08:47:52] * cbarrett is a mac developer
- [08:48:08] <SvperPhly>
See how many links have NOTHING to do with the topic of the page? Argentine prosecutors: Arrest former Iranian president
- [08:48:19] <SvperPhly>
we have links to: Madonna: Wealth didn't speed case
- [08:48:26] <SvperPhly>
'Grey's' Washington: I'm sorry
- [08:48:31] <SvperPhly>
'Son of Sam' settles suit with ex-lawyer
- [08:48:40] <cbarrett>
Right.
- [08:48:46] * cbarrett awaits the point
- [08:48:46] <cbarrett>
;)
- [08:48:52] <drewinthehead>
:)
- [08:49:09] <SvperPhly>
ok... well, i've had an idea for a while, but no one reads my blog, so it never really got any 'press'
- [08:49:31] <SvperPhly>
Basically, you should wrap your content using the DOM and serve up JUST the topic/article/text of the page.
- [08:49:40] <SvperPhly>
if you created a microformat for navigation, ads, etc
- [08:49:45] <McNulty>
whuhuh?
- [08:49:46] <SvperPhly>
you could essentially index more effectively
- [08:50:25] <SvperPhly>
this has a little bit to do with SEO sorta, but really more about W3C's description of what a webpage is.
- [08:50:33] <SvperPhly>
a single bit of information.
- [08:50:54] <SvperPhly>
the ONLY h1 that should exist on the page is the topic of the page, not the site title, not the navigation header, not the footer header
- [08:51:01] <SvperPhly>
that's all peripheral information
- [08:51:44] <SvperPhly>
google looks at a page on any of our websites and is like "there's a link to w3c, creative commons, adsense, my friends site, my other friends site, etc"
- [08:51:54] <SvperPhly>
all have nothing to do with the actual page's point.
- [08:52:02] <SvperPhly>
point/topic, same diff
- [08:52:27] <SvperPhly>
i mean we, almost all, use id="body" or id="content"
- [08:52:29] <SvperPhly>
but there's no standard
- [08:52:37] <SvperPhly>
we have id="header"
- [08:52:53] <SvperPhly>
anyone still listening?
- [08:53:32] <SvperPhly>
i guess a better way to describe it would be... if you were to print the page, what would you expect to come out of the printer? the site nav? nope.
- [08:53:49] <McNulty>
I think <header>, <content> and <navigation> have been proposed for future HTML versions
- [08:54:24] <SvperPhly>
so until then, we wait?
- [08:54:42] <McNulty>
XHTML2.0 has <section> and <h>, which is quite interesting
- [08:54:52] <cbarrett>
XHTML2.0 is irrelevant.
- [08:54:59] <cbarrett>
It's not compatible with the rest of the web
- [08:55:08] <McNulty>
how do you mean?
- [08:55:09] <cbarrett>
and AFAIK no browser has plans to implement it.
- [08:56:06] <cbarrett>
<img> is either deprecated or removed (I can't recall)
- [08:56:11] <SvperPhly>
why not develop a microformat vocabulary that makes up parts of webpages?
- [08:56:15] <SvperPhly>
deprecated.
- [08:56:19] <SvperPhly>
<object> instead
- [08:56:20] <cbarrett>
I think they also changed the semantics for links.
- [08:56:23] <SvperPhly>
yeah
- [08:56:37] <cbarrett>
Asking user agents to maintain two separate parsers and display engines is silly.
- [08:56:54] <SvperPhly>
cbarrett: so, does my idea hold water in your eyes?
- [08:57:05] <drewinthehead>
water in your eyes? ick
- [08:57:15] <SvperPhly>
i knew that was goign to happen ;)
- [08:57:21] <cbarrett>
Not really -- I still don't see why you want microformats for navigation and ads and stuff.
- [08:57:31] <cbarrett>
how is that "Humans first, machines second"?
- [08:57:35] <McNulty>
cbarrett - Browsers already can render XML, why can't they just render XHTML2.0?
- [08:57:54] <McNulty>
Also no site in their right mind would explicitly mark up adverts as suck
- [08:57:57] <McNulty>
er such
- [08:58:11] <cbarrett>
99% of the XHTML web can't be parsed as XHTML
- [08:58:19] <McNulty>
becuse everyone in the world would immediately set up a user stylesheet for .advert{ display: hidden; }
- [08:58:26] <cbarrett>
the DOM totally changes, as do the parsing and rendering rules
- [08:58:28] <cbarrett>
for example
- [08:58:39] <cbarrett>
document.createElement() doesn't work in XML. It doesn't know what namespace to use.
- [08:58:41] <McNulty>
cbarrett - I've not looked at it much, so I'll defer to your judgement
- [08:58:48] <cbarrett>
so you use document.createElementNS() instead.
- [08:59:15] <cbarrett>
Next generation of stuff you're gonna see is going to come out of the WHATWG
- [08:59:18] <cbarrett>
HTML5
- [08:59:26] <SvperPhly>
well, then aside from microformats, what about wrapping a document with the site's navigation and what not...
- [08:59:31] <cbarrett>
http://www.whatwg.org/
- [08:59:52] <cbarrett>
SvperPhly: It seems more useful to me to mark up the area of the page that actually *is* contentful.
- [09:00:31] <SvperPhly>
so a single tag of <div class="theRealContent">
- [09:01:22] <cbarrett>
or something.
- [09:01:52] <McNulty>
and <link rel="alternate bookmark" href="#theRealContent" /> in the head?
- [09:02:10] <McNulty>
to say 'for the canonical version of this page, only look at this bit'
- [09:02:41] <cbarrett>
yeah, except with a less silly name than "theRealContent" ;)
- [09:03:36] <McNulty>
If you had a @rel value that was appropriate, the designer could choose their own ID
- [09:03:40] <McNulty>
If you see what I mean
- [09:04:49] <cbarrett>
McNulty: yea
- [09:05:06] <McNulty>
I see whatwg's Web Applications 1.0 specifies a <header> and <footer>
- [09:05:35] <cbarrett>
yea
- [09:06:04] <McNulty>
makes sense considering 99% of published content has an element with @id="header"
- [09:06:35] * muffinresearch (i=scol@nat/yahoo/x-40220122d15ef9c7) has joined #microformats
- [09:06:58] <McNulty>
According to Google, the top classname on existing content is 'footer'
- [09:07:10] <McNulty>
frankly that should be an ID
- [09:07:20] * cbarrett shrugeth
- [09:07:45] <trovster>
I personally use #branding, #content, #footer {}
- [09:07:55] <trovster>
After reading two articles talking about ise
- [09:08:00] <trovster>
use* of class/id names
- [09:08:20] <McNulty>
#header, #footer, #nav here, which sems to map onto the HTML5 proposals
- [09:08:28] <McNulty>
trovster - http://code.google.com/webstats/2005-12/classes.html this one of them?
- [09:08:32] <trovster>
Nope
- [09:08:44] <trovster>
Oh yeh, #navigation {}
- [09:08:46] <McNulty>
dicussion of currency markup, in the last para
- [09:08:55] <trovster>
Then I also use #content-primary {} #content-secondary {} etc
- [09:09:04] <McNulty>
maybe I'll mention that on the mailing list
- [09:11:11] <mfbot>
[[what-are-microformats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=what-are-microformats-fr&diff=0&oldid=9854 * ChristopheDucamp * (+4950) translation - synchro - work in progress
- [09:11:21] <cbarrett>
oh neat
- [09:11:21] <trovster>
McNulty: Pm you?
- [09:11:24] <cbarrett>
<price>
- [09:12:19] <McNulty>
trovster - sure, can't guarantee it'll work though
- [09:13:19] <drewinthehead>
http://blog.johnmckerrell.com/2006/10/23/microformats-tails-export-bluetooth/
- [09:13:47] <McNulty>
trovster - see my reply?
- [09:13:51] <trovster>
nope
- [09:14:12] <McNulty>
gah, happened last time. Gaim's fault...
- [09:15:26] <McNulty>
Are you on any of the IM services I'm on? http://ciaranmcnulty.com/contact
- [09:16:28] <trovster>
I'll ring ya ;)
- [09:16:33] <trovster>
Or fax it over! heh
- [09:16:43] <McNulty>
:-)
- [09:16:47] <cbarrett>
drewinthehead: nice
- [09:16:50] <McNulty>
That number doesn't come through
- [09:17:12] <McNulty>
drewinthehead - that's 'mcknut'
- [09:17:34] <drewinthehead>
ah, ace :)
- [09:18:08] <drewinthehead>
i'm bad with names ... doubly so when IRC aliases get added to the mix
- [09:18:14] <trovster>
hmm, the email export is busted :(
- [09:18:23] <trovster>
McNulty, sorry, on your vCard
- [09:18:34] <McNulty>
He was talking a little about it in channel last couple of days
- [09:18:53] <McNulty>
trovster - oh, is it marked up wrong?
- [09:18:56] <trovster>
Why not just <a href="" class="email">...?
- [09:19:25] <trovster>
email (type, value) ... mmm seems to be right
- [09:20:43] <McNulty>
what's exporting wrong about it?
- [09:21:04] <McNulty>
mcknut was saying he was intending to update the XSL with a more recent X2V
- [09:21:22] <mfbot>
[[what-are-microformats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=what-are-microformats-fr&diff=0&oldid=9855 * ChristopheDucamp * (+194) Richard Quick -
- [09:22:14] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [09:22:42] <trovster>
Email: Email me at my home address, mail@ciaranmcnulty.com. -- in tails
- [09:23:11] <McNulty>
huh
- [09:23:20] <McNulty>
X2V outputs EMAIL:mail@ciaranmcnulty.com
- [09:23:22] <McNulty>
which seems ok
- [09:23:28] <trovster>
Yeh, Tails give me the above
- [09:24:11] <McNulty>
mcknut seemed to think he could drop in the latest X2V XSL fairly easily
- [09:24:13] <mfbot>
[[what-are-microformats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=what-are-microformats-fr&diff=0&oldid=9856 * ChristopheDucamp * (-1) Richard Quick -
- [09:25:05] <trovster>
He's the guy who writes Tails?
- [09:25:18] <McNulty>
no he's modified it a bit lately
- [09:25:24] <McNulty>
he added send via bluetooth
- [09:25:30] <trovster>
ahk,
- [09:25:32] <McNulty>
which works surprisingly well
- [09:25:32] <kapowaz>
anyone seen that thing on 37signals about installing script debugger?
- [09:25:45] <kapowaz>
I'm not sure whether or not I'm laughing or crying
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- [09:25:59] <mfbot>
[[xfolk-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk-fr&diff=0&oldid=9857 * ChristopheDucamp * (+81) Implémentations -
- [09:26:33] <cbarrett>
hm
- [09:26:55] <cbarrett>
what UAs support some of the HTML5 stuff?
- [09:26:59] <cbarrett>
like webforms2
- [09:28:30] <mfbot>
[[xfolk-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk-fr&diff=0&oldid=9858 * ChristopheDucamp * (+376) Implémentations -
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- [09:32:37] <mcknut>
hi, drewinthehead did you just get that from stuart?
- [09:33:13] <mcknut>
and, yeah, I thought I could just drop the XSL in easily, but there was a slight issue which I didn't have time to look at last night
- [09:33:37] <mcknut>
(slight issue being, it no longer worked!)
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- [09:33:50] <drewinthehead>
yeah, mcknut ... he just pinged it over
- [09:34:03] <drewinthehead>
on a rubber band from like 10 metres away
- [09:34:17] <mcknut>
heh, was just chatting to him about it on MSN, I see he's mentioned it on his site
- [09:34:41] <mfbot>
[[hcard-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=9859 * ChristopheDucamp * (+987) Nouveaux Exemples -
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- [09:37:17] <mfbot>
[[vcard-implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vcard-implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=9860 * ChristopheDucamp * (+15) importation unique -
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- [09:38:55] * cbarrett was just talking about process and such
- [09:39:03] <cbarrett>
uF has a great process that works quite well
- [09:39:12] <cbarrett>
I think it's a nice model to follow.
- [09:39:30] <cbarrett>
certainly it's been effective. uF started only a year or so ago, right?
- [09:40:03] <cbarrett>
year and a half ago was when the wiki was created, according to mediawiki
- [09:40:38] <mfbot>
[[vcard-implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vcard-implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=9861 * ChristopheDucamp * (+566)
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- [10:16:11] <drewinthehead>
finally got round to posting about rel-lint http://allinthehead.com/retro/302/can-microformats-be-validated
- [10:18:15] <mfbot>
[[citation-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-fr&diff=0&oldid=9862 * ChristopheDucamp * (+106) Informative References -
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gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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- [11:40:00] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
- [11:40:00] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
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- [11:55:14] <jibot>
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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- [12:09:09] <trovster>
I was looking at one of the uF presentations for the WSG. Someone mentioned the flickr API and the fact more information can be gathered from the profile
- [12:09:12] * charlie_r (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
- [12:10:10] <trovster>
hmm, it's for the specific profile page, not the profile list. Looks like I can't do what I'd want to, oh well.
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- [12:10:44] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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- [12:38:09] * McNulty (n=ciaran@nat-195.157.130.52.maximalls.net) has joined #microformats
- [12:38:09] <jibot>
McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
- [12:39:10] <briansuda>
McNulty, did you manage to check the Nokia vCard import?
- [12:39:59] <McNulty>
briansuda - typing in the URL to the phone's browser works fine now
- [12:40:11] <briansuda>
excellent
- [12:40:24] <McNulty>
Thanks for modifying it so quickly
- [12:40:42] <briansuda>
not a prob, i would assume the ics file is probably also effected, do you want to check that?
- [12:41:01] <McNulty>
I can do, yeah
- [12:43:38] <McNulty>
briansuda - yeah same error message, 'object type not supported'
- [12:43:54] <briansuda>
ok, let me do a quick find and replace...
- [12:43:59] <mcknut>
hey guys, afraid I didn't do much with the extension last night, dropping the XSL in doesn't work because it links to external files
- [12:44:19] <mcknut>
and in the few seconds I looked, I couldn't see what had been done to handle that in the originals
- [12:47:03] <briansuda>
ok, i have uploaded the new hCal XSLT, can you check it again?
- [12:48:26] <McNulty>
checking...
- [12:48:50] <McNulty>
looks ok to me!
- [12:49:13] <briansuda>
excellent
- [12:49:28] <briansuda>
once we get HG re-orgainzed, i'll commit them
- [12:50:51] <McNulty>
fantastic
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- [12:54:37] <McNulty>
It's probably worth seeing if any other apps suddenly start complaining
- [12:55:14] <briansuda>
true, but actually, we are new MORE correct in relation to the spec
- [13:02:49] <McNulty>
briansuda - how far does X2V's include-pattern support go?
- [13:03:18] <briansuda>
depends, it supports the object and 'a' include
- [13:03:31] <briansuda>
but it is my interpretation, i think Tails does it slightly differently
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- [13:07:37] <McNulty>
briansuda - can you see anything wrong with http://test.ciaranmcnulty.com/test-vcard.php ?
- [13:07:44] <McNulty>
The include doesn't seem to work...
- [13:08:12] <briansuda>
yup
- [13:08:17] <blueNine>
Does anyone know if there a public domain vCard icon?
- [13:08:55] <briansuda>
the way X2V interprets include is that it replaces the href=# with the children of the other id
- [13:08:55] <McNulty>
'yup'? :-)
- [13:09:13] <briansuda>
since your id="first-url" has no children it doesn't do anything
- [13:09:19] <McNulty>
aha!
- [13:09:21] <briansuda>
you will need something like:
- [13:09:39] <briansuda>
<div id="first-url"><a class="url" href="/">Link to this site</a>
- [13:09:39] <briansuda>
</div>
- [13:09:44] <McNulty>
Hm... there does seem to be a bit of a difference in the way include-pattern's interpreted
- [13:09:45] <McNulty>
yeah I see...
- [13:10:05] <McNulty>
hKit was happy with it, but had a different issue
- [13:10:07] <McNulty>
hm, thanks
- [13:10:51] * drewinthehead stirs
- [13:11:01] <drewinthehead>
someone say something? ah .. hKit :)
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- [13:11:17] <briansuda>
we all do the include pattern slightly differently
- [13:11:26] <McNulty>
briansuda - ok, I've got something that should work in both
- [13:11:30] * ajturner_ is now known as ajturner
- [13:11:33] <McNulty>
drewinthehead - sorry, didn't mean to rouse you ;-)
- [13:12:06] <drewinthehead>
forgiven ;)
- [13:13:16] <McNulty>
I think I mentioned to you the bug I found with a.include...
- [13:13:54] <drewinthehead>
yup, it's on my list
- [13:13:59] <McNulty>
:-)
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- [13:19:00] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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- [14:40:33] <johnjosephbachir>
i have a question
- [14:40:38] <johnjosephbachir>
why h ?
- [14:42:52] <julianstahnke>
yeah, that'd be interesting to know
- [14:43:26] <Frederic>
h like html
- [14:43:29] <Frederic>
I think
- [14:43:55] <julianstahnke>
ah
- [14:44:00] <julianstahnke>
makes sense
- [14:44:06] <Frederic>
I've always thought about this
- [14:44:12] <Frederic>
maybe I'm wrong but I doubt
- [14:49:48] <McNulty>
does http://test.ciaranmcnulty.com/test-vcard-2.php look like a valid use of a.include?
- [14:51:28] <trovster>
Heh, h for HTML
- [14:51:33] <trovster>
Yeh* even!
- [14:51:43] <trovster>
That's how I've always seen it
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- [15:12:09] <jibot>
Cloud_ is Cloud
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- [15:20:19] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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- [15:53:29] <jibot>
bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
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- [16:02:26] <KevinMarks>
can I put do <div class="location vcard" > in a hCalendar event?
- [16:08:33] * Cloud_ (n=Cloud@deri-wg1-2.nuigalway.ie) has joined #microformats
- [16:08:33] <jibot>
Cloud_ is Cloud
- [16:08:47] <kapowaz>
in that case, what is Cloud?
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- [16:11:19] <Cloud_>
:)
- [16:11:30] <Cloud_>
Cloud is an impostor I tell you!
- [16:11:31] * Cloud (n=Cloud@deri-dmz2.nuigalway.ie) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
- [16:11:38] <Cloud_>
Die impostor Cloud
- [16:11:39] * Cloud_ is now known as Cloud
- [16:11:40] <tantek>
KevinMarks - I believe that example is covered in hcalendar-brainstorming and hcalendar-authoring
- [16:12:11] <tantek>
as well as the Future of Web Apps preso http://microformats.org/wiki/presentations
- [16:15:29] <KevinMarks>
i know it's covered somewhere, I just wanted a yes or no
- [16:16:23] <KevinMarks>
and the answer is 'yes'
- [16:16:32] <KevinMarks>
sometimes one bit is all I need
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- [16:30:25] <jibot>
bewest is Ben West and lives in San Francisco, CA. He daydreams about web style software, works at Alexa.com and blogs at http://bewest.wordpress.com/
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- [16:33:48] <cbarrett>
ahoy
- [16:34:48] <bewest>
aye
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- [16:44:23] <cbarrett>
bewest: how goes?
- [16:45:12] <bewest>
excellent
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- [17:25:45] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [17:25:47] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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- [17:29:56] <jibot>
remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
- [17:41:13] * bear is now known as bear_afk
- [17:43:06] <cbarrett>
ahoy
- [17:45:29] <ajturner>
avast!
- [17:47:18] <bewest>
where were you guys on "Talk-Like-a-Pirate Day"??
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- [17:57:32] <tantek>
bewest, we were ARRRRRRRRound
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- [18:01:10] <cbarrett>
ARRRRRRRR!
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- [18:03:03] <bewest>
what's a pirate's favorite branch of the military?
- [18:03:41] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Abj100.isk.mesh.ad.jp) has joined #microformats
- [18:04:07] <ajturner>
the ARRRRRRRmy?
- [18:04:21] <bewest>
no, the navy, silly... ARRRR
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- [18:05:41] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
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- [18:39:15] <jibot>
drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
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- [19:21:02] <mfbot>
[[include-pattern]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern&diff=0&oldid=9863 * Tantek * (+267) added scope
- [19:33:27] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
- [19:33:27] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
- [19:35:01] * charlie_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
- [19:43:44] <mfbot>
[[include-pattern-faq]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/include-pattern-faq * Tantek * (+479) drafted, added scope Q&A
- [19:44:58] <mcknut>
evening chaps
- [19:45:16] <drewinthehead>
evenin
- [19:45:36] <tantek>
afternoon
- [19:46:13] <mcknut>
does anyone on here have contact details for robert de bruin, the guy who did tails export originally?
- [19:51:30] * charles_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [19:52:27] <mcknut>
ah well, I'm trying to get brian's latest XSL in but having a few problems
- [19:53:06] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
- [19:56:56] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=9864 * AndyMabbett * (+1) Exploratory Discussions - added link
- [19:58:52] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=9865 * AndyMabbett * (+39) Exploratory Discussions - added links, rm/ abandoned suggestion
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- [20:00:22] <jibot>
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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- [20:11:54] <Whafro>
ot, but has anyone here been involved in an information architecture project for a very large (read: lots of data of several different types) site?
- [20:13:38] * bear is now known as bear_afk
- [20:16:25] <mcknut>
possibly.. yeah
- [20:16:38] <mcknut>
guess it depends what you mean by "lots"
- [20:18:16] <Whafro>
how long did that take? I'm just looking to roughly scope a timeframe that allows for some serious IA work...
- [20:19:18] <mcknut>
ah right, wasn't recent, and I wasn't particularly practiced when we did it
- [20:20:14] <Whafro>
the site might well be compared to a major magazine (think GQ) that includes all of its articles, sells everything it advertises directly, and provides some amazon.com-like social aspects to each of those bits of content...
- [20:21:41] <mcknut>
well, we launched after 3-4 months, but work continued afterwards
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- [20:22:24] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
- [20:22:37] <Whafro>
mmhmm
- [20:22:38] <mfbot>
[[include-pattern]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern&diff=0&oldid=9866 * ScottReynen * (-211) object include example - Removed first note on scope, made redundant by new scope section
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- [20:28:14] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
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- [20:30:27] <mfbot>
[[species]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species&diff=0&oldid=9867 * AndyMabbett * (+135) See also - Biobar
- [20:32:21] <mfbot>
[[species]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species&diff=0&oldid=9868 * AndyMabbett * (+101) See also - more on Biobar
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- [20:51:21] <mfbot>
[[species]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species&diff=0&oldid=9869 * AndyMabbett * (+11) See also -
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- [21:42:15] <mfbot>
[[include-pattern]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern&diff=0&oldid=9870 * Tantek * (+320) added restrictions section to emphasize the specific technical implications of the scope
- [21:43:51] <mfbot>
[[species]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species&diff=0&oldid=9871 * AndyMabbett * (+14) See also - oh yes it is...
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- [22:05:01] <factoryjoe>
opinions? http://www.factorycity.net/projects/microformats-icons/
- [22:12:26] * ajturner (n=irc@d14-69-228-190.try.wideopenwest.com) Quit ()
- [22:13:09] <hober2>
ooooh
- [22:14:03] <hober2>
People seem to have roughly converged on green for ical buttons (eventful, google calendar, etc.)
- [22:14:12] <hober2>
so I'd change the color of the hcal one maybe
- [22:14:17] <hober2>
I love the hatom one
- [22:14:53] <hober2>
I like the subtle differences between the various xfn ones
- [22:15:56] <hober2>
what's the significance of the curved-arrowy-dude in the hresume one?
- [22:15:59] <tantek>
not sure about the "me" one - seems like a waste
- [22:16:12] <tantek>
of an icon
- [22:16:18] <tantek>
which could be used more generically
- [22:22:41] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host217-42-133-100.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
- [22:22:42] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
- [22:29:30] <factoryjoe>
tantek: ok..
- [22:29:44] <factoryjoe>
it seems like it would be useful to have though
- [22:30:03] <tantek>
yeah - not sure what an icon for "this is another aspect/facet of me" would look like
- [22:30:07] <factoryjoe>
like in a blogroll, to be able to see which blogs are also by the same author graphicall
- [22:30:08] <factoryjoe>
y
- [22:30:12] <factoryjoe>
mm
- [22:30:14] <KevinMarks>
a mirror?
- [22:30:21] <tantek>
seems like a logical grouping would be better
- [22:30:27] <tantek>
than iconic chartjunk
- [22:30:47] <factoryjoe>
logical grouping? like what?
- [22:31:06] <factoryjoe>
hober2: do you have links to those ical icons you mentioned?
- [22:32:01] <hober2>
yeah, hold on a sec
- [22:32:03] <tantek>
chris - just as an example: http://tantek.com/
- [22:32:16] <tantek>
i put mine in a section called "Identity facets"
- [22:32:37] <tantek>
it makes sense to logically distinguish "my stuff" vs. "my peeps' stuff"
- [22:33:11] <factoryjoe>
yeah
- [22:33:14] <factoryjoe>
hmm
- [22:33:29] <factoryjoe>
well, it would be contextually styled
- [22:33:38] <factoryjoe>
so the use of these icons would be in blog posts
- [22:33:42] <factoryjoe>
not in blogrolls
- [22:33:56] <factoryjoe>
at least for rel=me
- [22:34:05] <hober2>
e.g., http://eventful.com/images/skin/ical.gif
- [22:34:31] <tantek>
ah interesting - when you link inside a post to a part of yourself someplace else
- [22:34:44] <factoryjoe>
right
- [22:34:47] <factoryjoe>
that's what i do
- [22:34:56] <factoryjoe>
when i link to my own blog posts i use rel-me
- [22:34:58] * hober2 is now known as hober
- [22:35:05] <factoryjoe>
it's like declaring my self-promotion
- [22:35:10] <factoryjoe>
or self-link-love
- [22:35:12] <factoryjoe>
;)
- [22:35:17] <factoryjoe>
it's a type of disclosure
- [22:35:17] <tantek>
transparently like
- [22:35:38] <tantek>
yeah, see notes/posts/photos from last night's Social Media Club event
- [22:35:44] <factoryjoe>
link?
- [22:36:31] <tantek>
http://technorati.com/search/%22Social%20Media%20Club%22
- [22:36:50] <tantek>
I suggested that as part of disclosure, bloggers should use XFN when linking to friends etc.
- [22:37:01] <factoryjoe>
yeah
- [22:37:08] <factoryjoe>
well that's why we wanted XBN
- [22:37:12] <factoryjoe>
for business relations
- [22:37:22] <factoryjoe>
XPN for political affiliations (similar to rel-group)
- [22:37:48] <tantek>
why does it need to be separate?
- [22:37:57] <tantek>
rel-group covers that already doesn't it?
- [22:37:59] <factoryjoe>
well -- the idea of contextual sets
- [22:38:08] <tantek>
and if you mean simple ideological statements - then that is tagging
- [22:38:09] <factoryjoe>
rel-group does cover most "affiliations"
- [22:38:25] <factoryjoe>
well
- [22:38:26] <tantek>
e.g. tagging yourself as a "libertarian" but not wanting to say that you belong to the Libertarian Party
- [22:38:27] <factoryjoe>
what about this?
- [22:38:39] <factoryjoe>
I went to Universal Unitarian Church dinner last night.
- [22:38:54] <tantek>
did you avoid the punch?
- [22:39:00] <factoryjoe>
on my blog: "I went to <a href=foo" rel="member">Universal Unitarian Church</a> dinner last night."
- [22:39:06] <factoryjoe>
heh
- [22:39:09] <factoryjoe>
i drank the koolaid
- [22:39:12] <tantek>
no rel="group"
- [22:39:15] <tantek>
*you* are the member
- [22:39:16] <factoryjoe>
really?
- [22:39:19] <tantek>
they are the "group" relative to you
- [22:39:21] <factoryjoe>
oh right
- [22:39:23] <tantek>
think rel="stylesheet"
- [22:39:29] <tantek>
always go back to that example if you are confused
- [22:39:31] <factoryjoe>
"I went to <a href=foo" rev="member">Universal Unitarian Church</a> dinner last night."
- [22:39:37] <factoryjoe>
that's what i meant
- [22:39:39] <tantek>
no don't use rev
- [22:39:42] <factoryjoe>
heh
- [22:39:44] <tantek>
it's too confusing to most
- [22:39:49] <factoryjoe>
well ok, hold on
- [22:39:51] <tantek>
I'm beginning to agree with Hixie on that
- [22:39:54] <factoryjoe>
i get rel="group"
- [22:39:58] <factoryjoe>
however
- [22:40:05] <factoryjoe>
that only says what it is, not that i'm a member
- [22:40:19] <tantek>
no you are exactly incorrect ;)
- [22:40:24] <factoryjoe>
mm
- [22:40:32] <tantek>
rel *only* describes the relationship
- [22:40:37] <tantek>
rel does not "tag" it as a group
- [22:40:47] <tantek>
rel does not say what it is, except to you
- [22:41:10] <tantek>
rel="group" *only* says that you claim that thing to be a group that you belong to
- [22:41:31] <factoryjoe>
ok
- [22:41:33] <factoryjoe>
got it
- [22:41:39] <factoryjoe>
well
- [22:41:44] <yakk>
all this is so much clearer in RDF... ;-)
- [22:41:53] <factoryjoe>
here's another interesting opportunity for and X#N
- [22:42:00] <factoryjoe>
what about object relationships?
- [22:42:05] <factoryjoe>
like one book to another?
- [22:42:10] <factoryjoe>
i know this is what RDF is for
- [22:42:17] <factoryjoe>
but clearly, we want to do this in html
- [22:42:18] * yakk does not attempt to paste the FOAF required to express that into channel...
- [22:42:24] <factoryjoe>
heh
- [22:42:47] <factoryjoe>
like
- [22:42:51] <factoryjoe>
two library books
- [22:42:58] <factoryjoe>
that are related
- [22:43:01] <factoryjoe>
or even in amazon
- [22:43:24] <factoryjoe>
being able to express object relationships like people do seems useful
- [22:44:00] <factoryjoe>
or even rel="owns"
- [22:44:00] <yakk>
it feels like that's fairly domain-specific
- [22:44:13] * factoryjoe rel-owns yakk
- [22:44:21] <yakk>
I mean, from a page about one to another any link implies some kind of relationship
- [22:44:27] <yakk>
where's rel="0wnz"
- [22:45:02] <tantek>
yakk - actually it's not cleaner in RDF - guaranteed it takes more bytes to say it, and probably more URLs too
- [22:45:39] <tantek>
factoryjoe, what do you mean by "clearly we want to do this in html"?
- [22:45:50] <tantek>
do you have examples researched that demonstrated that people are already doing it on the web?
- [22:46:07] <tantek>
without that, you are merely wasting your time on theoreticals
- [22:46:20] <tantek>
"seems useful" is a good warning sign
- [22:46:42] <yakk>
factoryjoe, amazon links to other editions, citations, and related books...
- [22:46:45] <tantek>
yakk, we could do rel="pwnd" just for you
- [22:47:12] <yakk>
tantek, we've got to get the script kiddies using microformats. they're our future!
- [22:47:13] <tantek>
for linking to people that you have pwnd, either in an online space, or in a videogame etc.
- [22:47:18] <factoryjoe>
i have been in touch w/ a potentially large inter-library project that aims to expose the index of library materials from all the libraries in north america
- [22:47:31] <factoryjoe>
they want to use microformats to mark up this data
- [22:47:37] <tantek>
factoryjoe - I direct you to the citation efforts
- [22:47:46] <yakk>
factoryjoe, cool - who is that? did you go to the internet librarians conference in monterey this week?
- [22:47:47] <tantek>
please make sure you are sync'd up with those folks
- [22:47:59] <factoryjoe>
i didn't, but they're presenting at it
- [22:48:00] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@hq.last.fm) has joined #microformats
- [22:48:06] <factoryjoe>
ok
- [22:48:11] <tantek>
they've done a lot of work already - don't reinvent what they've done
- [22:48:13] <factoryjoe>
i've loosely followed the citation work
- [22:48:15] <factoryjoe>
indeed
- [22:48:18] <factoryjoe>
i don't intend to
- [22:48:21] <tantek>
be efficient with your time and reuse others' work
- [22:48:22] <factoryjoe>
i'll have to study up
- [22:48:26] <factoryjoe>
of course
- [22:48:26] <tantek>
yes
- [22:49:38] <factoryjoe>
well
- [22:49:40] <factoryjoe>
back to the icons
- [22:49:51] <factoryjoe>
do you still think the rel-me icon isn't useful outside the blogroll context?
- [22:52:21] <tantek>
it is too ambiguous
- [22:53:36] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
- [22:53:36] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
- [22:53:52] <factoryjoe>
ok
- [22:54:05] <tantek>
still - as with all works in progress
- [22:54:14] <tantek>
just add a link to that stuff to /wiki/buttons
- [22:54:23] <tantek>
and people can give feedback and have improvements happen iteratively
- [22:54:58] <factoryjoe>
k
- [22:55:13] <factoryjoe>
was planning on doing so but wanted early feedback in case there were any obvious problems.
- [22:57:15] * BenWard (n=BenWard@86.111.176.67) has joined #microformats
- [22:57:15] <jibot>
BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk (+0000/+0100 GMT)
- [22:58:07] <tantek>
I do like the emphasis on the human character
- [22:58:24] <tantek>
the hAtom icon in particular, with the human and feed, quite an interesting juxtaposition
- [22:58:42] <tantek>
though I might interpret that as an icon representing a feed of everything about that person
- [22:59:02] <tantek>
"Download hCard" doesn't make sense does it?
- [22:59:50] <factoryjoe>
well
- [22:59:56] <factoryjoe>
not totally, i agree
- [23:00:00] <factoryjoe>
i think they're alternatives
- [23:00:10] <factoryjoe>
depending on how you send the mime type?
- [23:00:21] <tantek>
that's very bad
- [23:00:23] <factoryjoe>
i mean, when you click a vcard link, it downloads a file
- [23:00:27] <tantek>
UI based on mimetypes/pipes is very bad
- [23:00:31] <factoryjoe>
heh
- [23:00:35] <tantek>
user interface should never make the user have to deal with the pipes
- [23:00:40] <factoryjoe>
well, we don't have to use the download icon
- [23:00:43] <tantek>
like the whole comments vs. trackbacks thing
- [23:00:54] <tantek>
they're just different plumbing for the same user functionality
- [23:01:05] <tantek>
distinguishing them in the UI not only makes no sense, but is bad
- [23:01:18] <tantek>
confusing users with unnecessary technical implementation details
- [23:01:27] <factoryjoe>
not exactly
- [23:01:37] <factoryjoe>
i'd rather not get into that discussion now though
- [23:01:47] <factoryjoe>
point taken about downloading an hcard though
- [23:01:52] <factoryjoe>
err vcard
- [23:01:57] <tantek>
users should not have to worry about the plumbing - that's pretty fundamental
- [23:02:10] <factoryjoe>
indeed
- [23:02:12] <factoryjoe>
i agree
- [23:02:15] <tantek>
I don't understand the hResume icon
- [23:02:20] <factoryjoe>
CV?
- [23:02:30] <factoryjoe>
or the round arrow?
- [23:02:31] <tantek>
what is the looping arrow for?
- [23:02:44] <factoryjoe>
it's an alternative subscription indicator
- [23:02:47] <tantek>
looping arrow means "reload"
- [23:02:52] <factoryjoe>
yeah...
- [23:03:04] <factoryjoe>
we could use the wireless waves
- [23:03:05] <tantek>
so that's suboptimal
- [23:03:21] <tantek>
how about a little mini factory icon ? :)
- [23:03:31] <tantek>
to indicate "work"
- [23:03:43] <tantek>
the xfn one is a button, not an icon
- [23:04:09] <factoryjoe>
well there's no real need for an xfn icon or button
- [23:04:14] * _psychic_ (n=_psychic@71.32.228.156) Quit ()
- [23:04:22] <BenWard>
Sorry to interrupt guys, can someone quickly link me to the IRC log for this conversation? I came in half way through and it sounds interesting g:)
- [23:04:28] <factoryjoe>
ical describes a bunch of data, usually in a div or span
- [23:04:33] <factoryjoe>
xfn is in each link
- [23:04:39] <factoryjoe>
xoxo might be better
- [23:04:57] <factoryjoe>
oh yeah, what happened to the topic link to the archives?
- [23:05:20] <tantek>
and not very original: http://gmpg.org/xfn/xfn-mini.gif
- [23:06:00] <tantek>
odd
- [23:07:17] <factoryjoe>
odd?
- [23:08:21] <tantek>
odd that the topic changed
- [23:08:56] <tantek>
hey factoryjoe - do you have the link for people to buy microformats tshirts?
- [23:10:12] <factoryjoe>
goodstorm.com/stores/factorycity
- [23:10:13] <factoryjoe>
i think
- [23:10:17] <factoryjoe>
lemme check
- [23:11:22] <factoryjoe>
BenWard: http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/
- [23:11:31] <factoryjoe>
tantek: seen the new rails restful stuff?
- [23:11:31] <BenWard>
Thank you Chris.
- [23:11:52] <factoryjoe>
np
- [23:15:14] <mfbot>
[[spread-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=spread-microformats&diff=0&oldid=9872 * Tantek * (+359) added tshirts section with links to store, Flickr photos, and Second Life sighting of microformats tshirt!
- [23:16:01] <factoryjoe>
ha!
- [23:20:06] <tantek>
yeah totally - thanks to Ryan King for the SL sighting link
- [23:22:16] <mfbot>
[[spread-microformats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=spread-microformats&diff=0&oldid=9873 * Tantek * (+95) microformatstshirt clusters are fun
- [23:24:37] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
- [23:24:38] <jibot>
bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
- [23:25:25] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has left #microformats
- [23:25:46] * tantek changes topic to 'add yourself to http://microformats.org/wiki/irc-people || about the channel: http://microformats.org/wiki/irc || archives: http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/'
- [23:25:58] <tantek>
there we go
- [23:28:02] * tantek pops the stack and returns to icons.
- [23:28:11] <factoryjoe>
stack?
- [23:28:17] <factoryjoe>
i'm editing that page
- [23:28:22] <tantek>
stack of interruptions that I've received recently
- [23:28:25] <tantek>
which page?
- [23:28:32] <factoryjoe>
icons
- [23:28:32] <tantek>
your icons page?
- [23:28:39] <tantek>
should I reload?
- [23:28:52] <tantek>
the "TAG" icon is similarly just a button
- [23:29:06] <factoryjoe>
i know
- [23:29:10] <factoryjoe>
i haven't finished yet
- [23:29:12] <factoryjoe>
gimme another 5
- [23:29:35] <tantek>
r u seperating buttons vs. icons?
- [23:30:00] <factoryjoe>
i could
- [23:30:04] <factoryjoe>
i wasn't going to
- [23:30:11] <factoryjoe>
only going to call out "web" icons
- [23:30:22] <factoryjoe>
and then offer them by microformat
- [23:30:33] <factoryjoe>
i'll finish up and then we can retool it
- [23:30:54] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
- [23:31:04] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable128.203-56-74.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
- [23:31:04] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
- [23:34:09] <tantek>
yes I think it is useful to distinguish icons vs. buttons/badges
- [23:35:47] <mfbot>
[[User talk:WikiBoomer]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User_talk:WikiBoomer * WikiBoomer * (+51258)
- [23:36:11] <tantek>
ooh that's an awful lot for a user page
- [23:36:53] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:WikiBoomer" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
- [23:36:59] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) deleted "User talk:WikiBoomer": spam
- [23:37:20] <tantek>
badabing badaBOOM WikiBoomer
- [23:38:17] <yakk>
I can put the vcard "class" on my <body> if my vcard elements are going to be all over the page, right?
- [23:38:32] * yakk wonders why he put class in quotes
- [23:38:56] <tantek>
yakk, often people refer to attributes with quotes, more often with single quotes
- [23:39:00] <tantek>
e.g. the 'class' attribute
- [23:39:11] <tantek>
more understandable to more people than
- [23:39:11] <yakk>
that makes sense
- [23:39:12] <tantek>
@class
- [23:39:15] <yakk>
true
- [23:40:35] <factoryjoe>
do your question
- [23:40:36] <factoryjoe>
no
- [23:40:38] <factoryjoe>
you can't
- [23:40:57] <factoryjoe>
unless your entire page will have only one hcard in it
- [23:40:59] <factoryjoe>
wait
- [23:41:01] <factoryjoe>
i am perfectly incorrect
- [23:41:12] <factoryjoe>
i read multiple vcards
- [23:41:18] <factoryjoe>
so i'm wrong
- [23:41:28] <factoryjoe>
carry on, and yes <body class=vcard"> should be fine
- [23:41:56] <yakk>
ok
- [23:42:04] <yakk>
its for my home page
- [23:42:16] <yakk>
so I realised that actually I want to make my <address> a vcard, right?
- [23:42:17] <tantek>
as long as you just have one hCard - that's fine
- [23:42:20] <yakk>
s/vcard/hcard/
- [23:42:23] <tantek>
y
- [23:43:21] * sreynen (n=sreynen@71-214-242-108.desm.qwest.net) has joined #microformats
- [23:43:22] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
- [23:43:28] <factoryjoe>
<address> is appropriate for the age author
- [23:43:33] <factoryjoe>
age --> page
- [23:43:44] * bewest (n=ben@httpcraft/bewest) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [23:50:01] * bear is now known as bear_afk
- [23:51:47] * bewest (n=ben@httpcraft/bewest) has joined #microformats
- [23:57:24] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit ("nil")
These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on
chat.freenode.net
using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.
See http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot for more information.