IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-10-28
Timestamps are in UTC.
- [00:02:14] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit ("nil")
- [00:10:57] <pnhChris>
yes.. logs... i'll have to read them all another time
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- [00:36:58] <jibot>
BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk (+0000/+0100 GMT)
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- [00:38:03] <KevinMarks>
bbc quotes misinformed folk:
- [00:38:04] <KevinMarks>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/6090418.stm
- [00:38:21] <KevinMarks>
There's a technology called Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) that allows you to control the way a page is displayed, such as the colour of the text and background.
- [00:38:22] <KevinMarks>
"However, that's quite a new technology, it's only been around a couple of years, and a lot of designers are still very wary of using it.
- [00:42:35] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
- [00:42:35] <jibot>
bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
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- [00:51:17] <factoryjoe>
omg
- [00:51:36] <factoryjoe>
i can't believe that that's from today
- [00:57:31] <boneill>
lol
- [00:57:41] <boneill>
emailed the beeb about it ;)
- [00:58:15] <KevinMarks>
then goes on to recommend Flash for accessibility...
- [00:58:20] <KevinMarks>
*boggle*
- [00:59:24] <boneill>
I've not emailed on an "official channel", but it's to a list that has people who actually know what they're talking about on it that work at the beeb
- [01:01:57] <factoryjoe>
is mf.org down?
- [01:02:16] <boneill>
yes, ^ topic
- [01:02:23] <factoryjoe>
oh
- [01:02:24] <factoryjoe>
indeed
- [01:02:36] <factoryjoe>
missed that
- [01:02:38] <factoryjoe>
what's the story?
- [01:04:02] <yakk>
aparently people were wary of css and took mf.org down just to be safe
- [01:05:48] <factoryjoe>
;)
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- [01:25:26] * kingryan changes topic to 'microformats.org down, filesystem problems, no ETA || add yourself to http://microformats.org/wiki/irc-people || about the channel: http://microformats.org/wiki/irc || archives: http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/'
- [01:27:26] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [01:27:27] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [01:27:44] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [01:28:12] <factoryjoe>
tantek: what happened to microformats.org?
- [01:28:22] <tantek>
server problems
- [01:28:40] <factoryjoe>
ah
- [01:28:45] <factoryjoe>
ah
- [01:28:48] <factoryjoe>
i c the topic
- [01:28:59] <factoryjoe>
wow
- [01:29:06] <factoryjoe>
does that mean it's like kaput? data loss?
- [01:29:17] * factoryjoe swoons
- [01:31:12] <factoryjoe>
is anyone else's internet slow as hell?
- [01:31:14] <factoryjoe>
i need a new internet
- [01:31:16] <factoryjoe>
mine's b0rked
- [01:35:52] <tantek>
we should be ok with the data
- [01:36:22] <tantek>
but still checking on that...
- [01:36:39] <factoryjoe>
bummer
- [01:42:43] <cbarrett>
factoryjoe: switch to your backup internets.
- [01:42:55] <factoryjoe>
oh yeah, good call
- [01:43:13] <cbarrett>
did you hear he said he uses "the google" a lot
- [01:43:23] <cbarrett>
"i type it in to the google"
- [01:43:41] <factoryjoe>
that's teh google ™
- [01:43:55] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [01:44:21] <cbarrett>
o rite
- [01:44:27] <cbarrett>
sry GOOG
- [01:47:30] <bewes1>
yeah
- [01:47:38] <bewes1>
"the google... heh... heh.."
- [01:48:07] <bewes1>
does anyone besides me find that a frightening indicator of how different he is from the american public?
- [01:48:30] <factoryjoe>
"he"? who's he?
- [01:48:58] <bewes1>
bush... he's the one that said: "I use the google."
- [01:50:50] <factoryjoe>
omg
- [01:50:55] <factoryjoe>
maybe he was just in compliance
- [01:51:05] <bewes1>
in compliance?
- [01:51:50] <factoryjoe>
http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/index.php/2006/10/26/google-can-go-shove-their-lexicographical-advice-up-their-ass/
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- [02:05:42] <cbarrett>
factoryjoe: man
- [02:05:53] <factoryjoe>
mm?
- [02:05:53] <cbarrett>
i don't know which post to be more offended by
- [02:06:38] <cbarrett>
the hopless corporate shill tone in the original post on the google blog, or the grating and utterly self-involved tone in the one you linked to.
- [02:07:19] <factoryjoe>
heh
- [02:08:41] <bewes1>
heh
- [02:08:58] <bewes1>
well I can't figure out why this person thought it's ok for yahoo to do it, but not for google
- [02:09:22] <factoryjoe>
did yahoo do that?
- [02:09:39] <bewes1>
(In fact I’ve just noticed that the title itself sets the tone of the post - a blatant mocking of the slogan of it’s nearest competitor.)
- [02:09:45] <bewes1>
</unquote>
- [02:10:10] <bewes1>
nearest competitor is a link to yahoo
- [02:10:29] <bewes1>
so he lost me in the first paragraph
- [02:10:40] <bewes1>
I'm not sure exactly what his point is... he hates google but loves their search?
- [02:14:32] <factoryjoe>
heh
- [02:14:39] <factoryjoe>
he's a bit of a contradiction, agreed
- [02:14:42] <factoryjoe>
those brits, man
- [02:32:26] <tantek>
still working on the server situation...
- [02:32:36] <tantek>
hoping to have an update within an hour
- [02:32:45] * remi (i=remi@c66.203.212-11.clta.globetrotter.net) Quit ()
- [02:37:38] <bewes1>
any chance of getting openID on our wiki?
- [02:37:49] <bewes1>
:-D
- [02:40:21] <tantek>
bewes1 - it's on the to-do list :)
- [02:44:36] <bewes1>
what's involved?
- [02:44:45] <bewes1>
is it a patch or is there some coding needed?
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- [03:01:20] <factoryjoe>
there's a mediawiki plugin
- [03:01:24] <factoryjoe>
should work out of the box
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- [03:34:12] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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- [04:36:04] <Frederic>
morning
- [04:36:37] <bewes1>
'evening
- [04:38:35] <Frederic>
6:36 am here
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- [04:59:14] <KevinMarks>
don't take dotban as a British archetype please
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- [05:46:55] <DanC>
hmm... http://inews.webopedia.com/TERM/m/microformat.html "microformat is an open source data format standard "
- [05:47:32] <DanC>
I hope they didn't get that from me. (I'm quoted in http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3640361 , whence comes that link)
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- [05:47:33] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
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- [08:27:25] <jibot>
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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- [08:43:18] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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- [11:00:09] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [11:40:34] <gsnedders>
tantek: what time do you get up at!?
- [11:42:28] <tantek>
hard to sleep when the server is down
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- [11:58:58] <jibot>
BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk (+0000/+0100 GMT)
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- [12:17:10] <jibot>
kensanata is blogging at http://www.emacswiki.org/alex/
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- [13:05:33] <jibot>
bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
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- [14:14:11] <jibot>
remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
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- [15:19:10] <jibot>
Ronnos is Ron Kok, a friendly student Communication and Multimedia Design in The Netherlands
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- [17:38:22] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [19:23:40] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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- [22:02:26] <jibot>
bewest is Ben West and lives in San Francisco, CA. He daydreams about web style software, works at Alexa.com and blogs at http://bewest.wordpress.com/
- [22:03:21] <bewest>
does technorati have a service that can help me select tags? for instance, given 3 or 4 tags, can it tell me which one is more popular?
- [22:03:30] <bewest>
eg should I use "lazyweb" or "lazy web"?
- [22:05:40] <bewest>
is there a name for the class of data the so-far-successful microformats embody?
- [22:06:41] <bewest>
eg "contacts, events, times, places, and relationships are in a class of data called ______"
- [22:19:08] <tantek>
bewest, typically no space tags are better
- [22:19:33] <bewest>
what about "semweb" vs "semanticweb"?
- [22:19:51] <bewest>
and is SemWeb consistently treated the same as semweb?
- [22:19:59] <tantek>
case insensitive yes
- [22:20:57] <bewest>
tantek: what about dotNet vs .net?
- [22:21:20] <tantek>
punctuation is also typically dropped
- [22:21:52] <tantek>
a lot of this comes from the early de facto implementations, e.g. flickr.com
- [22:22:15] <bewest>
hmm
- [22:22:18] <bewest>
yeah, that's natural
- [22:22:52] <bewest>
I also understand that the best tags will emerge... but I'm not convinced the current cycle of that emergence is the best one
- [22:23:11] <bewest>
personally I don't like double and triple tagging every variant I can think of
- [22:23:23] <tantek>
yes that can get a bit tedious i tend to agree
- [22:23:58] <bewest>
it'd be great if there was some notification, even subtle, that a given tag is "winning" over a near variant
- [22:24:06] <tantek>
i wonder when someone will make a "tagfight" services where you can give it a number of tags and it will tell you which are the more popular in which systems
- [22:24:10] <bewest>
and then I could just drop the variant, feeling safe
- [22:24:33] <bewest>
well...
- [22:24:41] <bewest>
you're the blog people :-0
- [22:24:55] <bewest>
maybe I'll get someone at work to do it
- [22:24:59] <bewest>
show off our new product
- [22:25:07] <tantek>
it would be a fun little mashup thing
- [22:25:11] <bewest>
yeah
- [22:25:29] <bewest>
while I have your attention, what about the class of data thing?
- [22:25:44] <tantek>
would be interesting to see if different tags "won" in flickr vs. delicious vs. rel-tagged blog posts (as found by Technorati),
- [22:25:52] <tantek>
class of data?
- [22:26:10] <bewest>
(3:05:39 PM) bewest: is there a name for the class of data the so-far-successful microformats embody?
- [22:26:10] <bewest>
(3:06:40 PM) bewest: eg "contacts, events, times, places, and relationships are in a class of data called ______"
- [22:27:13] <tantek>
the most commonly published data types on the Web
- [22:27:22] <bewest>
hmm
- [22:27:30] <bewest>
yes, I'm trying to think about why
- [22:27:43] <tantek>
the market chooses as the market chooses
- [22:27:48] * bewest is thinking about browsing and publishing behaviour from an evolutionary perpespective
- [22:28:04] <bewest>
our mental toolkit is optimized for certain kinds of data
- [22:28:15] <bewest>
and it is for that reason I believe that those are the most common types of data on the web
- [22:28:16] <tantek>
or simply current human culture
- [22:28:31] <tantek>
it is merely a distillation of a reflection
- [22:32:03] <bewest>
reflection of what?
- [22:32:05] <bewest>
which culture?
- [22:32:24] <tantek>
the Web is a reflection of human culture
- [22:32:36] <bewest>
right
- [22:33:25] <bewest>
so these types of data are the most published types because it's a class of data rooted into the human condition...
- [22:33:29] <bewest>
as opposed to other types of data
- [22:33:33] <bewest>
like log files
- [22:33:35] <tantek>
or in the current human condition
- [22:33:46] <bewest>
the human condition changed?
- [22:33:49] <tantek>
i don't know how timeless the set is
- [22:34:01] <tantek>
human culture certainly has changed is changing
- [22:34:39] <tantek>
and yes the human condition has changed significantly over history
- [22:35:03] * bewest senses near misses in communication
- [22:35:13] <tantek>
witness that no one has yet even proposed microformats for hunting for food, or even farming - though plants comes close
- [22:35:25] <bewest>
I'm pretty sure people have gossiped in more or less the same manner for a long long time
- [22:35:30] <tantek>
both of which were a much more dominant part of the human condition in the past
- [22:35:46] <tantek>
bewest - are you an anthropologist?
- [22:35:51] * bewest isn't
- [22:35:58] * bewest is just curious
- [22:36:08] <tantek>
then i might recommend studying some to answer that question
- [22:36:41] <bewest>
I do know that there are some things that have been more or less static... and it is those things I am interested in
- [22:36:51] <bewest>
for example, we know that music has always existed in every culture
- [22:37:13] * tantek points again at the anthropology book for more precision/evidence.
- [22:37:39] <tantek>
it's only human to seek out common patterns
- [22:37:58] <tantek>
but that doesn't mean that all such patterns are universal, either across time or space
- [22:39:17] * danja (n=danja@host41-220-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
- [22:39:53] <bewest>
it's been observed that changes to make software more "accessible" make it easier to use not just for whatever handicap was targeted, but for the general populace as well
- [22:42:14] * dbaron (n=dbaron@c-24-6-67-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
- [22:42:30] <bewest>
that indicates that there is a common shared experience, to some degree
- [22:43:20] <tantek>
shared across the axis of accessibility within the same culture perhaps, but does not provide evidence for anything more
- [22:43:52] <bewest>
not sure why you qualify to within a given culture
- [22:44:02] <bewest>
there is other evidence, anyway
- [22:44:12] <tantek>
but don't confuse them, that's why
- [22:44:23] <tantek>
it's not scientific
- [22:44:29] <bewest>
such as the common set of emotions shared across cultures
- [22:44:37] <bewest>
a smile is always a smile... never a frown
- [22:44:58] * tantek again recommends more study on bewest's part
- [22:45:21] <tantek>
those are Western-centric assumptions
- [22:45:54] * dbaron (n=dbaron@c-24-6-67-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
- [22:46:12] <bewest>
I'm not making uneducated statements :-)
- [22:46:22] <bewest>
but reading some books doesn't make one an expert either
- [22:46:46] <bewest>
I've never heard any contest to the universal nature of music
- [22:46:52] <tantek>
those statements bely lack of sufficient study of a variety of cultures
- [22:47:00] * kensanata (n=alex@pdpc/supporter/active/kensanata) Quit (Connection timed out)
- [22:47:03] <tantek>
absence of negative evidence is not proof
- [22:47:23] * tantek wonders why logical people make that logical mistake so often.
- [22:47:26] <bewest>
there have been studies on emotion, as well
- [22:47:42] <bewest>
it's not proof, it's a concession
- [22:47:50] <bewest>
I haven't seen every book in the world
- [22:48:00] <bewest>
it's a concession that I may not know
- [22:48:03] * SignpostMarv (i=user@88-111-197-129.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has joined #microformats
- [22:48:13] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
- [22:48:13] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
- [22:48:16] <tantek>
thus it is not scientific to assume universality - that's my point
- [22:48:22] <SignpostMarv>
just checking if it's a known issue that the wiki is 404'd, or if it's just my connection
- [22:48:22] <tantek>
if you don't know
- [22:48:36] <tantek>
Marv, see /topic
- [22:49:12] <bewest>
imagination many times precedes science
- [22:49:28] <bewest>
science then confirms what it can
- [22:49:32] <bewest>
rinse, repeat
- [22:49:40] <tantek>
but scientists don't make proclamations of universality
- [22:49:43] <tantek>
as if they are truth
- [22:49:49] <tantek>
as some of your earlier statements did
- [22:49:59] <bewest>
we have evidence that music has always existed
- [22:50:09] * remi (i=remi@c66.203.212-11.clta.globetrotter.net) Quit ()
- [22:50:16] <tantek>
since which culture?
- [22:50:18] <bewest>
I'd have to do some searching to point to precisely what that evidence is
- [22:50:25] <tantek>
define "always"
- [22:51:06] <bewest>
I will look it up now
- [22:51:53] <tantek>
if the earliest evidence of music is not the earliest evidence of human culture or existence, then clearly the evidence shows that there may have been (likely was) a time in human existence before music
- [22:54:52] <bewest>
that's a good point... however I didn't mean to speak scientifically; all of this is just brainstorming, and you raise some good points
- [22:55:31] <bewest>
ekman has done much research on emotions and communicating them
- [22:55:33] <bewest>
or ekkman
- [22:55:35] <bewest>
whatever his name
- [22:55:42] <tantek>
my meta-point is that you have to be careful about making absolutist statements that overgeneralize because they are almost always wrong, and thus you should question any of your uses of words like "always" and "universal" and "everybody"
- [22:55:52] <tantek>
from a scientific viewpoint of course
- [22:56:08] <bewest>
many times, I actually concede with phrases like "I'm pretty sure..."
- [22:56:13] <bewest>
and other things like that
- [22:56:32] <bewest>
however, I am often accused of this by other people as well
- [22:57:06] <tantek>
like I said, it's a human tendency to overgeneralize patterns and thus as scientists we need to question such tendencies
- [22:57:31] <bewest>
such a bother, at times
- [22:58:29] <bewest>
anyway, I'm still curious as to what you would use to name the line between "log files" and "contacts" when they are both considered data
- [22:59:15] * bewest is a poor scientist
- [23:01:27] * tantek directs bewest at http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/nature/index.shtml
- [23:06:15] * bewest now reviews what he said
- [23:07:18] <tantek>
the difference between "log files" and "contacts" is an interesting question to explore
- [23:07:31] <tantek>
i think gets at the heart of the focus of microformats
- [23:07:49] <tantek>
microformats are for representing human-centric data
- [23:08:12] <tantek>
so for a log file of a conversation, like an IRC log, that makes sense
- [23:10:11] <tantek>
but a web server log file, not really. most of a web server log file is effectively machine generated. humans do enter URLs and click links, and thus "browser history" could be considered human-centric data. but the rest is browsers retrieving other resources and robots.
- [23:10:31] <tantek>
documents vs. data
- [23:10:45] <tantek>
and this goes back to HTML
- [23:10:56] <tantek>
which was designed for marking up human authored text
- [23:11:05] <tantek>
text written by humans for humans
- [23:11:25] <bewest>
yes, but I suspect there is more to it than that
- [23:11:38] <tantek>
of course there is more to it - i am merely exploring the contrast
- [23:12:04] <tantek>
drawing some rough dotted lines
- [23:12:05] <bewest>
that's what I was doing until you hammered me for saying everybody and always ;-)
- [23:12:52] <SignpostMarv>
since web server logs are meant for machines first, humans second, the logs could still be displayed using hCalender, but not stored as it, right ?
- [23:12:55] * tantek reinforces the philosophy of science
- [23:13:39] <tantek>
Marv, another way to approach that would be to first explore a "browser history" microformat
- [23:13:46] <tantek>
which would be humans-first
- [23:14:02] <tantek>
and then see later if it could be reused to represent server-history (web server logs)
- [23:14:19] <SignpostMarv>
hmm
- [23:14:35] <tantek>
humans-first means exploring formats for humans first also
- [23:15:39] <bewest>
I'm not sure the fact that it's text is salient
- [23:15:56] <bewest>
I think it would retain it's interest if it was speech and not text
- [23:16:21] <tantek>
bewest, as long as the content was produced by humans for humans yes the content type is orthogonal
- [23:16:28] <tantek>
same for images
- [23:16:43] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl081-240-149.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [23:16:43] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
- [23:16:44] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
- [23:16:54] <bewest>
'lo
- [23:17:20] * kingryan changes topic to 'microformats.org coming back up- blog,wiki up, mailinglists todo || add yourself to http://microformats.org/wiki/irc-people || about the channel: http://microformats.org/wiki/irc || archives: http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/'
- [23:17:22] * charlie_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
- [23:17:25] <kingryan>
howdy
- [23:17:26] <SignpostMarv>
browser history events have a start date, a location (the document accessed), some data on the event (HTTP Status codes, other headers etc etc). Would making a microformat for browser history not just be reinventing the hCalendar wheel ?
- [23:17:39] <tantek>
everyone please give kingryan a hand for helping microformats.org come back up
- [23:17:42] <kingryan>
we're getting microformats.org back up
- [23:18:00] <kingryan>
blog and wiki should be working (but please back off for now), mailing lists are in progress
- [23:18:02] <tantek>
Marv, a microformat for browser history might reuse hCalendar
- [23:18:14] * bewest hands out party hats and noise makers
- [23:18:16] <tantek>
that would automatically come out of the process
- [23:18:19] * kingryan should be on the beach
- [23:18:28] <danbri>
you can think of a great many kinds of data in terms of events ... it's very seductive
- [23:18:37] * SignpostMarv applauds kingryan, was needing wiki link for blog post comment
- [23:18:42] * bewest hands kingryan some flip flops and a frisbee
- [23:18:46] <tantek>
danbri - the problem is that too many format-jockies confuse human events with computer events
- [23:18:59] <tantek>
and make the mistaken assumption you can generalize them into one concept
- [23:19:14] <tantek>
or that it would even be desirable to do so
- [23:19:16] <danbri>
"anything that happens"
- [23:19:33] <bewest>
yes, that's part of what I'm interested in
- [23:19:37] <danbri>
calendar formats are interesting, 'cos they cover things that don't happen too
- [23:19:39] <tantek>
as opposed to "things that happen that are planned/created by humans"
- [23:20:06] <bewest>
tantek: hmm, aren't things that happen to humans equally interesting?
- [23:20:12] <danbri>
hmm i'm not sure that's the way to carve the scoping cake... there are ical calendars of lunar cycles, etc
- [23:20:27] <bewest>
danbri: right
- [23:20:28] <danbri>
yup what bewest said
- [23:20:37] <bewest>
environmental events
- [23:20:40] <SignpostMarv>
anal-retentive marking up of computer events would be to mark up the computer session's boot time as class="bday" :-D
- [23:20:49] <danbri>
but there are certainly more events visible to science and machines than are interesting to most people
- [23:21:24] <SignpostMarv>
^which on one hand makes sense, but on the other would be a very very odd thing to do
- [23:21:32] * bewest thinks the line has to do something with being experiential
- [23:22:28] <tantek>
danbri - lunar cycles are human abstractions of physical phenomena
- [23:23:10] <tantek>
and see archives - of course you can take a format designed for human authored data (e.g. ical) and apply it to non-human data
- [23:23:30] <tantek>
that doesn't refute the focus for creating the formats - which is still humans first
- [23:24:08] * tantek wonders if things that happen to humans are more "experiences" than "events", which are more things that humans plan/create
- [23:25:07] <tantek>
(archives reference is to designing a format for browser history (human centric) and then reusing it for web server log files (machine generated))
- [23:25:32] <bewest>
are there any experiences that humans don't plan or create that are "interesting"?
- [23:25:40] <bewest>
although I'm beginning to lose site of what interesting means
- [23:26:17] <tommorris>
bewest: individually or collectively?
- [23:26:33] <bewest>
collectively....
- [23:26:35] <bewest>
now that more people are here
- [23:26:39] <bewest>
maybe I'll restate the question
- [23:27:05] * charles_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Connection timed out)
- [23:27:09] <bewest>
(3:05:39 PM) bewest: is there a name for the class of data the so-far-successful microformats embody?
- [23:27:09] <bewest>
(3:06:40 PM) bewest: eg "contacts, events, times, places, and relationships are in a class of data called ______"
- [23:27:29] <tommorris>
attention.
- [23:27:49] <bewest>
tantek's answer was "the most commonly published data types on the Web" and I'm trying to think about why
- [23:28:07] <tommorris>
The most commonly published data type on the web is simple - porn.
- [23:28:14] <tommorris>
But nobody takes my suggestion of hPorn seriously.
- [23:28:22] <tantek>
and my answer to why was - a distillation of a reflection of human culture
- [23:29:11] <tantek>
tommorris - that may be adequately represented by a media-info microformat that included tagging so that you could tag your media accordingly
- [23:29:28] * tommorris is trying to write a recursive OPML parser with a serious headache, so comes out with some silly suggestions
- [23:30:14] <bewest>
xslt is good at that
- [23:30:27] <tommorris>
Unfortuantely not.
- [23:30:56] <tommorris>
I'm using PHP 5 + SimpleXMLIterator
- [23:31:11] <tommorris>
Although XInclude is a nice idea.
- [23:31:12] * SignpostMarv thinks hPorn would be little more than hReview
- [23:31:20] <bewest>
I suggest using xslt to transform it to something else, and then parse that
- [23:31:32] <bewest>
you can write a recusrive xslt parser in like 20 lines
- [23:32:18] <tommorris>
More complicated than that - I've thought about XSLT - but what I'd need to do would take more XSLT than it does PHP.
- [23:32:27] <tommorris>
(Output is all gonna be in XOXO)
- [23:32:39] <bewest>
there's already an xslt for that
- [23:32:43] <tantek>
nice tommorris
- [23:32:44] <bewest>
by lm orchard i believe
- [23:33:28] <tommorris>
Yeah - but I'm trying to turn Dave Winer's OPML parser in to a standards-compliant application that runs on a sane platform.
- [23:33:32] <bewest>
evidently uche ogbuji did one too
- [23:56:20] <KevinMarks>
there's a decent OPML pareser in Python
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