IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-10-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:03:15] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("Some Kind of Raid Boss")
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  9. [01:44:35] <Zeeshan_M> In hCard documentation, how does one indicate a regional and an international number?
  10. [01:44:57] <Zeeshan_M> Ie, how do I mark which ccitt I am using?
  11. [01:45:35] * SignpostMarv (i=user@88-111-197-129.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has joined #microformats
  12. [01:48:25] <SignpostMarv> tantek: regarding the relatively recent discussion on virtual persons in XFN, do you think there should be a distinction between virtual persons (e.g. an avatar) vs fictional persons (e.g. a character in a book or film) ?
  13. [01:51:21] <SignpostMarv> I'd be interested in seeing other peeps thoughts as well :-D
  14. [01:52:11] <tantek> what about characters in costume running around town?
  15. [01:52:55] <SignpostMarv> random drunk people type running, or disney-guy-in-suit running ?
  16. [01:53:46] <SignpostMarv> and by random drunk people, I also mean fancy dress events
  17. [01:54:51] <SignpostMarv> the distinction is that one is meant to be fictional person X, where as the other is just dressing up like person X
  18. [01:57:10] <tantek> acting as vs. appearing as - yes I think I understand the distinction
  19. [01:57:27] <Zeeshan_M> May I have some feedback on my question.
  20. [01:57:42] * SignpostMarv doesn't know what the question was
  21. [01:57:52] <Zeeshan_M> re: [01:46] <Zeeshan_M> In hCard documentation, how does one indicate a regional and an international number?
  22. [01:58:03] <SignpostMarv> dialing codes ?
  23. [01:58:37] <SignpostMarv> ah. I don't think hCard makes a distinction on that level
  24. [01:58:48] * SignpostMarv goes and checks
  25. [01:59:24] <tantek> Zeeshan_M, use standard +(Intl code)... syntax
  26. [01:59:34] <tantek> see the RFC on tel: for details
  27. [01:59:36] <Zeeshan_M> That's explictly for international.
  28. [01:59:46] <tantek> works "locally" also
  29. [01:59:58] <tantek> e.g. for information in San Francisco, I can dial +1415551212
  30. [02:00:07] <tantek> even though I am in San Francisco
  31. [02:00:32] <tantek> and it just works easier if you always specify phone numbers with dialing codes like that for mobile phones etc. which often wander across borders with their owners
  32. [02:00:44] <Zeeshan_M> What do I do when I have two or more numbers I wish to seperate for regional and/or national and international usage?
  33. [02:03:28] <SignpostMarv> class vs text you mean ?
  34. [02:04:32] <SignpostMarv> would it not be a case of <span class="type">regional</span> and <span class="type">international</span> ?
  35. [02:05:03] <Zeeshan_M> No, because there is a pool of pre-defined values for type.
  36. [02:05:16] <Zeeshan_M> work, fav, msg, etc.
  37. [02:05:33] <Zeeshan_M> work, voice, msg, even.
  38. [02:06:30] <Zeeshan_M> I have these to markup:
  39. [02:06:30] <Zeeshan_M> International: +44 709 2100 100
  40. [02:06:30] <Zeeshan_M> Regional: 01604 400 500
  41. [02:06:30] <Zeeshan_M> National: 0870 450 4500
  42. [02:08:26] <SignpostMarv> does the explicit inclusion of the international dialing code (in this case, +44) not imply the number is an international one ?
  43. [02:10:44] <Zeeshan_M> It does, yes but I was hoping there was a set of markers to seperate these variants out.
  44. [02:11:05] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
  45. [02:11:38] <Zeeshan_M> I have checked CCITT and they have a recommendation called E.123, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.123, which helps on shaping national numbers.
  46. [02:11:50] <SignpostMarv> alternate suggestion: <abbr title="+441604400500">Regional: <span class="value">01604 400 500</span></abbr> ?
  47. [02:12:29] <Zeeshan_M> That's wasteful, I need users to --SEE-- the telephone numbers while also making them available via Microformats.
  48. [02:12:46] <Zeeshan_M> Using title attribute will assume users know what to hover on to see additional information, which is foolish.
  49. [02:13:16] <SignpostMarv> you could say the same thing about using <abbr> for dates
  50. [02:13:30] <Zeeshan_M> No, that differs.
  51. [02:13:43] <SignpostMarv> in that case title is used to store the machine readable form
  52. [02:13:55] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  53. [02:13:58] <Zeeshan_M> Yep, here I am dealing with humans ;-)
  54. [02:14:23] <SignpostMarv> the number is still displayed exactly how you typed it out here
  55. [02:14:56] <Zeeshan_M> I want to label the content properly so that if a parser which supports Microformats hits the pages can see the seperation.
  56. [02:15:18] <Zeeshan_M> Oops, pardon me. I mis-read your +44, I thought you did: <abbr title="+447092100100">Regional: <span class="value">01604 400 500</span></abbr>
  57. [02:15:54] <Zeeshan_M> Let me check to see if class="value" overrides title attribute.
  58. [02:15:55] <SignpostMarv> that is what i did right ?
  59. [02:17:30] <SignpostMarv> if i'm understanding the semantics correctly, what i typed says that Regional: 01604 400 500 is an abbreviation of "+447092100100"
  60. [02:18:07] <Zeeshan_M> You did not, you said
  61. [02:18:09] <Zeeshan_M> [02:13] <SignpostMarv> alternate suggestion: <abbr title="+441604400500">Regional: <span class="value">01604 400 500</span></abbr> ?
  62. [02:18:25] <Zeeshan_M> You modified the user readable value with a machine version which has +44 prefix.
  63. [02:18:47] <SignpostMarv> are the contents of an abbr tag not the abbreviation of the title value ?
  64. [02:19:23] <Zeeshan_M> abbr title="" and class="value" are methods to assign a value to a key.
  65. [02:19:43] <Zeeshan_M> I am looking to see of http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard states what occurs when two methods are used to try and assign a value.
  66. [02:19:51] <Zeeshan_M> I assume cascading/overriding occurs.
  67. [02:20:19] <Zeeshan_M> see if*
  68. [02:21:25] <SignpostMarv> I think the "proper" way to use abbr in this case would be <abbr class="value" title="+447092100100">Regional: 01604 400 500</abbr>
  69. [02:21:30] <SignpostMarv> http://microformats.org/wiki/abbr-design-pattern
  70. [02:22:27] * BobJonkman (n=John@206-248-137-186.dsl.teksavvy.com) has joined #microformats
  71. [02:23:06] <Zeeshan_M> SignpostMarv, that then obfuscates information from the user.
  72. [02:23:27] <SignpostMarv> the information they want is 01604 400 500
  73. [02:23:31] <Zeeshan_M> I am looking to firstly show the three telephone numbers to human followed by mechanical proecesses.
  74. [02:23:40] <SignpostMarv> the information an indexer wants is +447092100100
  75. [02:23:58] <SignpostMarv> i pasted totally the wrong number into that example :-D
  76. [02:25:11] <SignpostMarv> just as the examples shown on abbr-design-pattern indicate
  77. [02:27:09] <SignpostMarv> geo does the same thing
  78. [02:27:30] <Zeeshan_M> May I paste a DDL list?
  79. [02:28:14] <Zeeshan_M> Actually, I'll use a pastebin
  80. [02:28:41] <Zeeshan_M> http://rafb.net/paste/results/tTtTib86.txt
  81. [02:28:49] <Zeeshan_M> That is the markup I currently have.
  82. [02:34:37] <Zeeshan_M> *sigh*
  83. [02:34:53] <SignpostMarv> unless there's something stashed away in the standards documents to cover it, i'm thinking <abbr> would be the correct method
  84. [02:36:02] <Zeeshan_M> So you think I should use abbr for the first two and leave the third one as it's already formatted for international syntax?
  85. [02:36:34] <SignpostMarv> it seems the logical option, although I'd wait for it to be seconded/opposed before you did anything
  86. [02:37:23] <Zeeshan_M> re:
  87. [02:37:23] <Zeeshan_M> <dd class="tel"><span class="type">work</span> <abbr title="+44 1604 400 500">01604 400 500</abbr></dd>
  88. [02:37:24] <Zeeshan_M> <dd class="tel"><span class="type">work</span> <abbr title="+44 8704 504 500">0870 450 4500</abbr></dd>
  89. [02:37:33] <Zeeshan_M> That does seem to be "feel" correct.
  90. [02:37:52] <Zeeshan_M> I get user readable text and machine variation seems valid.
  91. [02:38:26] <SignpostMarv> <abbr class="value" title="+44 8704 504 500">National: 0870 450 4500</abbr> methinx
  92. [02:38:49] <Zeeshan_M> I am using a DDL to do the key to value pairs.
  93. [02:39:06] <Zeeshan_M> "National" is defined by DT
  94. [02:39:13] <SignpostMarv> ah
  95. [02:39:14] <SignpostMarv> sorry
  96. [02:39:19] <Zeeshan_M> No problem
  97. [02:39:20] <SignpostMarv> yes
  98. [02:39:49] <SignpostMarv> in your case, it works, but in an inline example, you'd probably need to include the locality indicator
  99. [02:42:15] <SignpostMarv> I should think you'll definately need to include class="value" though
  100. [02:42:26] <SignpostMarv> otherwise the parser won't see anything methinx
  101. [02:52:58] * kensanata (n=alex@pdpc/supporter/active/kensanata) Quit ("zzzzzzzzz")
  102. [03:10:30] <SignpostMarv> back to my question then
  103. [03:11:28] <SignpostMarv> virtual vs fictional, or virtual vs acting vs appearing
  104. [03:12:34] * danbri_ (n=danbri@168.226.3.35) has joined #microformats
  105. [03:14:40] <SignpostMarv> also taking into account that a virtual person can act or appear as a fictional person
  106. [03:21:30] * tantek (n=tantek@71.141.143.129) has joined #microformats
  107. [03:21:30] <SignpostMarv> "Neo" has been marked up with hCard on the wikipedia
  108. [03:21:30] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  109. [03:21:41] <SignpostMarv> wb tantek
  110. [03:21:46] <tantek> Signpostmarv - of course he has ;)
  111. [03:21:49] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  112. [03:22:07] * tantek directs SignpostMarv to the history of that page.
  113. [03:22:25] <SignpostMarv> Neo is a fictional virtual person, Thomas A Anderson is a fictional natural person
  114. [03:22:43] <SignpostMarv> or is it the other way around ?
  115. [03:22:44] <SignpostMarv> :-D
  116. [03:23:32] * danbri (n=danbri@168.226.3.35) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  117. [03:24:32] * neuraxon77 (n=craig@cust7394.vic01.dataco.com.au) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  118. [03:25:02] <SignpostMarv> so with the case of Neo, you have 3 peeps- the actor, the character, and the alter-ego
  119. [03:25:58] <SignpostMarv> then you have the stuntmen, 3D model and fanboys
  120. [03:28:01] <SignpostMarv> and I'm referring to the game model, not the special effects model
  121. [03:28:55] <tantek> Neo is merely a nickname for Thomas A Anderson
  122. [03:29:53] <SignpostMarv> Neo is his "real name", implying that Thomas. A. Anderson is his virtual self (prior to awakening as the one, etc etc)
  123. [03:30:14] <tantek> it's not his "real name" - it's his self-assigned name
  124. [03:30:55] <SignpostMarv> in the "real world", he's never referred to as Thomas A. Anderson
  125. [03:31:26] <SignpostMarv> the name Thomas A. Anderson was only applied to his virtual self- his avatar in the Matrix
  126. [03:33:54] * vmarks (n=vmarks@cpe-065-190-165-181.nc.res.rr.com) Quit ("shvoooooooommm!")
  127. [03:34:06] <SignpostMarv> but that isn't the focus of the question. are the distinctions between natural, virtual, fictional (acting or appearing) significant enough to warrant their own indicators in XFN
  128. [03:34:10] <SignpostMarv> not so much what they are
  129. [03:34:14] <SignpostMarv> as should they exist
  130. [03:34:18] <tantek> but in that world, his legal name etc. were Thomas A Anderson
  131. [03:34:26] <tantek> that his "parents" assigned to him
  132. [03:34:56] <tantek> so perhaps that's the definition of "real name" - your legal name, i.e. the name your parents gave you
  133. [03:35:27] <tantek> in the "real world" - everyone is referred to via their "handle"/"nickname"
  134. [03:35:41] <tantek> in the Matrix fictional reality
  135. [03:35:42] <SignpostMarv> the real name of the avatar is Thomas A. Anderson, the real name of the character is Neo
  136. [03:35:57] <tantek> not an avatar - was his actual self
  137. [03:36:17] <tantek> are you not yourself in your dreams?
  138. [03:36:26] <tantek> you are not an avatar in your dreams
  139. [03:36:32] <tantek> same thing
  140. [03:36:44] <SignpostMarv> I'm not always myself in my dreams :-D
  141. [03:37:06] <tantek> right - but when you are yourself, you're not an avatar.
  142. [03:37:57] <SignpostMarv> that depends on your point of view- to the figments of my imagination, the figment of myself is an avatar of my consciousness
  143. [03:38:10] <tantek> no that's an unnecessary layer of abstraction
  144. [03:38:16] * vmarks (n=vmarks@cpe-065-190-165-181.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  145. [03:38:43] <tantek> you can always rationalize additional layers of abstraction with "point of view" type arguments - that doesn't justify them
  146. [03:39:54] <SignpostMarv> the representation of the character in the matrix is the fictional virtual person, and the representation of the character outside of the matrix is the fictional natural person
  147. [03:39:58] <SignpostMarv> are we agreed on that ?
  148. [03:40:29] <tantek> no it is not a representation - vis a vis the if you are killed in the Matrix you die
  149. [03:41:16] <SignpostMarv> if you are killed in the real world, you die in the matrix
  150. [03:41:27] <tantek> both - exactly - that proves my point
  151. [03:41:36] <tantek> thus there is no "representation"
  152. [03:41:39] <tantek> both are the same person
  153. [03:41:53] <bewest> you might say "it is what it is"
  154. [03:41:58] * BobJonkman (n=John@206-248-137-186.dsl.teksavvy.com) has left #microformats
  155. [03:42:01] <SignpostMarv> "digital self image"
  156. [03:42:17] <tantek> the outfits etc. are the digital self image - to be precise
  157. [03:42:32] <bewest> not at image... that would be a representation
  158. [03:42:40] <SignpostMarv> I believe there was a character in the comics who could change their digital self image- their entire appearence
  159. [03:42:42] <bewest> s/at/an
  160. [03:43:05] * danbri_ (n=danbri@168.226.3.35) Quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
  161. [03:43:30] <tantek> are the comics considered canonical?
  162. [03:43:47] <bewest> tantek: canon of what?
  163. [03:43:52] <SignpostMarv> the Matrix
  164. [03:44:12] <bewest> oh
  165. [03:44:17] <SignpostMarv> Star Trek books are not always canon with the Star Trek universe for example
  166. [03:44:40] <KevinMarks> is 'Goliath' canonical?
  167. [03:44:57] <tantek> e.g. Star Wars comics are not considered canonical representations of the Star Wars universe
  168. [03:45:10] <bewest> gotcha
  169. [03:45:37] <bewest> is this in regard to developing some avatar microformat?
  170. [03:45:46] <SignpostMarv> no, just XFN values
  171. [03:46:10] <bewest> XFN values have to be collected from the web, or what?
  172. [03:46:26] <bewest> I mean instances of those values
  173. [03:47:18] <SignpostMarv> okay, so the neo self reference example isn't a good one, but Neo is a friend of the Oracle, correct ?
  174. [03:47:25] <SignpostMarv> e.g. rel="friend"
  175. [03:47:41] <SignpostMarv> but last time I checked, the Oracle was a virtual person
  176. [03:47:49] <tantek> sorry - g2g, another rel="friend" needs me ;)
  177. [03:47:55] <tantek> the Oracle was a program
  178. [03:47:58] <tantek> just like the Agents
  179. [03:48:03] <bewest> not in the same frame of reference as "neo"
  180. [03:48:14] <SignpostMarv> so you have this fictional virtual person being friends with a fictional natural person
  181. [03:48:36] <bewest> in the frame of reference of neo, there was nothing virtual about the oracle, she was perfectly extant
  182. [03:48:37] <tantek> not a virtual person - a program
  183. [03:48:45] <tantek> bewest, exactly
  184. [03:48:48] <bewest> right
  185. [03:48:52] * tantek (n=tantek@71.141.143.129) Quit ()
  186. [03:49:26] <SignpostMarv> sticking with the matrix references
  187. [03:49:34] <SignpostMarv> wasn't there two programs who created a child ?
  188. [03:50:08] <bewest> in that frame of reference (POV), they weren't programs, they weren't virtual, they were normal agents of that point of view
  189. [03:50:10] <bewest> perfectly extant
  190. [03:50:22] <bewest> and thus able to rear young like any other entity
  191. [03:51:14] <SignpostMarv> okay, i'll shift it out of the internal referencing
  192. [03:51:59] <SignpostMarv> Keanu Reeves codes an HTML page showing his work history
  193. [03:52:10] <SignpostMarv> he uses hCard to mark up the characters he played
  194. [03:52:16] <bewest> why?
  195. [03:52:17] <SignpostMarv> and links to the wiki page for Neo
  196. [03:52:24] <SignpostMarv> for arguments sake :-D
  197. [03:52:42] * bewest isn't sure that's what would happen :-)
  198. [03:52:56] <bewest> but ok
  199. [03:53:37] <SignpostMarv> rel="me" sort of seems like an appropriate, but imperfect value to use between the document and the wiki article on Neo right ?
  200. [03:53:56] <bewest> hmm
  201. [03:54:12] <SignpostMarv> but the spec would indicate that saying rel="me" would be saying "I am Neo"
  202. [03:54:23] <SignpostMarv> not "I represented Neo in a work of fiction"
  203. [03:55:05] <bewest> that's a different problem
  204. [03:55:27] <SignpostMarv> which problem would that be ?
  205. [03:55:37] <bewest> that is a representation
  206. [03:55:56] <bewest> the other problem is not a representation, it's a frame shift
  207. [03:58:29] <SignpostMarv> would it be out of the scope of XFN to have some combination of one or more values added to rel="me" to say something along the lines of "this fictional person was portrayed by me"
  208. [03:59:04] <bewest> I dunno
  209. [03:59:16] <SignpostMarv> hmm
  210. [03:59:27] <SignpostMarv> actually, XFN is supposed to be present tense isn't i
  211. [03:59:29] <SignpostMarv> it*
  212. [04:00:37] <SignpostMarv> so i probably shouldn't have used that as an example :-D
  213. [04:01:03] <SignpostMarv> in the rel="me" sense anyway
  214. [04:01:30] <SignpostMarv> but people can still rel="muse" a virtual or fictional person
  215. [04:02:50] <SignpostMarv> another example would be the band "Gorillaz"
  216. [04:03:34] <bewest> yeah
  217. [04:03:37] <SignpostMarv> these are fictional persons portrayed by natural persons, and these fictional persons have interpersonal relationships with fictional and natural persons
  218. [04:03:56] <bewest> they do?
  219. [04:04:23] <SignpostMarv> well they're friends with each other, and they have rel="muse" with real world bands and musicians
  220. [04:06:04] <SignpostMarv> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorillaz
  221. [04:10:00] * charles_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  222. [04:10:30] <SignpostMarv> the members of the band have been interviewed in real world media, so the band members would rel="acquaintaince" the interviewer
  223. [04:10:46] <SignpostMarv> although i'm not sure if the interviewer would do the same :-D
  224. [04:11:26] <bewest> heh
  225. [04:11:29] <bewest> are they rude?
  226. [04:11:42] <SignpostMarv> the band members or the interviewer ?
  227. [04:12:19] <bewest> band member
  228. [04:12:35] <bewest> I mean why wouldn't the interviewer do the same?
  229. [04:12:47] <SignpostMarv> point of view thing
  230. [04:13:09] <bewest> how is it a different point of view?
  231. [04:13:13] <SignpostMarv> is he interviewing the fictional band, or damon albarn/jamie hewlett
  232. [04:13:39] <bewest> dunno, I haven't seen the interviews
  233. [04:14:23] <SignpostMarv> I know an interview with Murdoc was done "with" Murdoc, not either of two
  234. [04:14:53] <SignpostMarv> and this isn't a Marilyn Manson/Brian Warner situation
  235. [04:18:26] <SignpostMarv> although I'm not sure if it's a Spinal Tap situation
  236. [04:20:19] <SignpostMarv> generally these virtual/natural/fictional persons problems are only a problem when it comes to rel="me"
  237. [04:25:27] * charlie_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  238. [04:25:42] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  239. [04:25:42] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  240. [04:26:00] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  241. [04:26:56] <SignpostMarv> wb again, we've switched from the Matrix to the band "Gorillaz" as the example for the virtual/natural/fictional persons thing
  242. [04:28:10] <tantek> I suppose the larger problem is - are people actually sharing/publishing information about virtual persons in any great degree? If not, then its not really even worth our time to consider a microformat for it/them.
  243. [04:28:51] <SignpostMarv> fictional persons are different from virtual persons tantek
  244. [04:29:05] <tantek> sure I'll accept that
  245. [04:29:13] <tantek> the critique still stands
  246. [04:31:08] <SignpostMarv> biographies on characters in books, promotional sites on characters and cast lists, profile sites for MMOs
  247. [04:34:30] <SignpostMarv> every article on the wikipedia about a natural, virtual or fictional person could be marked up with hCard for example
  248. [04:38:33] <SignpostMarv> bringing up the superman example again, there's links to 5 different persons in the infobox, 2 of which are natural persons, 3 are fictional aliases
  249. [04:40:14] <SignpostMarv> ah correction, 6 people, there's the alter-ego of clark kent as well
  250. [04:42:15] <SignpostMarv> i really need to use different examples, but in the list of fitional orphans, there's 192 peeps
  251. [04:44:12] <SignpostMarv> hmm. just wondering if this natural/virtual/fictional stuff should be in class or rel
  252. [04:47:04] <SignpostMarv> which would be the most semantic way of indicating the "type" of person the relationship is referring to ?
  253. [04:48:08] <SignpostMarv> now that I'm thinking about it, I suspect that rel is not the best place for such an indicator to go
  254. [04:51:07] <SignpostMarv> anyone else awake care to chip in ?
  255. [05:02:10] <SignpostMarv> I've got a little birdie whispering in my ear that these sorts of behaviours exist in hCard already- with the "manifestations" of a person
  256. [05:02:23] <SignpostMarv> email, url, telephone, fax etc
  257. [05:22:06] * SignpostMarv wonders if he has bored everyone to sleep :-D
  258. [05:23:13] * rabble (n=evan@protest.net) has left #microformats
  259. [05:40:51] <Frederic> morning
  260. [05:41:08] <SignpostMarv> mornin'
  261. [05:52:14] <SignpostMarv> at least someone else is awake :-D
  262. [05:55:18] <Frederic> Well, it's 6:55 here
  263. [05:55:43] <SignpostMarv> 5:55 here
  264. [05:55:56] <Frederic> damn
  265. [05:56:27] <SignpostMarv> i just don't sleep :-D
  266. [05:56:40] <SignpostMarv> no coffee either :P
  267. [05:57:39] <SignpostMarv> i'm getting some rather confusing messages from my little birdie, brb
  268. [05:59:59] <Frederic> My son wakes up around 6 everyday
  269. [06:00:05] <SignpostMarv> have you read over the discussion on how to indicate the type of person an XFN relationship refers to ?
  270. [06:00:07] <SignpostMarv> hehe
  271. [06:00:10] <SignpostMarv> nice alarm clock
  272. [06:00:26] <Frederic> Nice is not the word
  273. [06:00:49] <Frederic> I haven't no
  274. [06:01:46] <SignpostMarv> unless my connection dropped while you signed on (which it does do, it's an ass like that), you should be able to see it up that way ^^ right ?
  275. [06:02:42] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable128.203-56-74.mc.videotron.ca) Quit ()
  276. [06:36:24] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl081-246-197.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  277. [06:52:11] * SignpostMarv (i=user@88-111-197-129.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  278. [07:05:17] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl081-246-197.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  279. [07:17:31] * danja (n=danja@host242-220-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
  280. [07:17:31] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
  281. [07:30:07] * SignpostMarv (i=user@88-111-197-129.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has joined #microformats
  282. [07:30:37] * SignpostMarv had some technical issues earlier, may have appeared to have been in the room while he wasn't
  283. [07:46:53] * Frederic may have appeared to have been in the room while traveling in the tube
  284. [07:47:21] * SignpostMarv wonders if he means browsing the net or commuting
  285. [07:48:49] <Frederic> Going from home to my office
  286. [07:48:58] <Frederic> The only place in the world I can ork quietly
  287. [07:49:28] <SignpostMarv> ah, well i couldn't avoid a play on "the internet is a series of tubes" thing :-D
  288. [07:50:55] <Frederic> With the little plumber repairingg the tubes when they're brocken ?
  289. [07:53:00] <SignpostMarv> super mario part times as an OBGYN ?
  290. [07:54:52] <Frederic> No, I was more thinking of a bunch of old gags at userfrienddly.org
  291. [07:55:10] <SignpostMarv> ah
  292. [07:55:49] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl081-246-197.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  293. [07:56:13] * dbaron (n=dbaron@c-24-6-67-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  294. [07:56:36] <factoryjoe> http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2006/10/28/apple-embraces-microformats-in-new-mac-webmail/
  295. [07:57:40] <Frederic> Hello Chris
  296. [07:57:44] <factoryjoe> hi
  297. [07:57:58] <Frederic> Too bad we didn't meet last time you were in Paris
  298. [07:58:07] * SignpostMarv wonders who'll be the first to add that to the wiki
  299. [07:58:28] * factoryjoe runs to add it
  300. [07:58:48] <Frederic> run luke run
  301. [07:59:45] <SignpostMarv> do we have enough awake peeps to get back the earlier discussion ?
  302. [08:01:43] <factoryjoe> earlier discussion?
  303. [08:02:30] * SignpostMarv points factoryjoe to the chatlog http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/2006-10-29
  304. [08:02:44] <factoryjoe> mercy buckets
  305. [08:03:12] <factoryjoe> timestamp?
  306. [08:04:12] * SignpostMarv is scraping ranges
  307. [08:05:45] <SignpostMarv> 01:48:25 - 01:57:10, 03:10:30 - 05-02:23
  308. [08:18:26] * kensanata (n=alex@pdpc/supporter/active/kensanata) has joined #microformats
  309. [08:18:26] <jibot> kensanata is blogging at http://www.emacswiki.org/alex/
  310. [08:19:51] <Frederic> here it is, starting monday, one of the biggest Italian bank will heavily use Microformats in its website
  311. [08:24:36] <factoryjoe> link>
  312. [08:24:38] <factoryjoe> ?
  313. [08:24:51] <factoryjoe> sorry SignpostMarv -- don't have much to add to the xfn discussion
  314. [08:25:20] <Frederic> factoryjoe: localhost at the moment, I'mm at work finishing the site
  315. [08:25:28] <factoryjoe> nice
  316. [08:25:31] <factoryjoe> which formats?
  317. [08:25:40] <SignpostMarv> rel="payment" ? :-D
  318. [08:25:40] <Frederic> hcard + hcalendar
  319. [08:25:59] <Frederic> hcalendar for their marketing campaigns
  320. [08:26:08] <Frederic> and hcardfor the agencies map
  321. [08:27:46] <kensanata> http://microformats.org/code/hcard/creator is still broken?
  322. [08:28:14] * SignpostMarv codes them by hand and tests them with tails export
  323. [08:30:41] <kensanata> yesterday i added an extension to my wiki that automatically detects addresses in two common formats within europe. now i'm not so sure this is useful.
  324. [08:31:19] <kensanata> i think i'll stick to raw html blocks for now, since there seems to be exactly one useful address on my site: mine. :)
  325. [08:32:27] * Frederic codes them by hand and doesn't test anymore
  326. [08:33:04] <kensanata> hehe
  327. [08:33:25] <Frederic> Since MS Dos 1.0 internal testing have been deprecated. You have a bunch of uesrs to do it. Now they call that beta version for web 2.0
  328. [08:34:12] <Frederic> When I think about it there have been a regression somewhere : before, people usd to pay for the software they beta tested, now it's free
  329. [08:35:33] <SignpostMarv> apart from subscription based MMOs that are patched on a really regular basis
  330. [08:38:28] <Frederic> Are MMOs web 2.0 ?
  331. [08:39:01] <SignpostMarv> depends on how you look at stuff like There, Active Worlds, Open Croquet and <plug>Second Life</plug>
  332. [08:40:02] <Frederic> I was thiking about WOW, FFXI, Guild Wars...
  333. [08:44:20] <SignpostMarv> Web 3.0 is a term bandied about to describe SL sometimes, and the experience of it is kinda like it's still in beta sometimes
  334. [08:46:01] <Frederic> I wonder why people don't use fieldsets more often, they just kick ass
  335. [08:47:23] <SignpostMarv> because they don't read A List Apart
  336. [08:54:05] * SignpostMarv wonders if he should try to get more discussion on the XFN rel vs class for indication of entity type issue in IRC before he posts something to the mailing list
  337. [08:54:05] <Frederic> Or because they don't know them
  338. [08:58:42] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl081-246-197.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  339. [09:08:50] * bewest (n=ben@httpcraft/bewest) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  340. [09:13:52] * kensanata (n=alex@pdpc/supporter/active/kensanata) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  341. [09:20:40] * tommorris (n=tommorri@i-83-67-98-32.freedom2surf.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  342. [09:30:26] * tommorris (n=tommorri@i-83-67-98-32.freedom2surf.net) has joined #microformats
  343. [10:35:04] * SignpostMarv (i=user@88-111-197-129.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  344. [10:39:30] <tommorris> hReview renderer: http://tinyurl.com/ykt8y5
  345. [10:41:16] * Ronnos (n=Ronnos@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #microformats
  346. [10:41:16] <jibot> Ronnos is Ron Kok, a friendly student Communication and Multimedia Design in The Netherlands
  347. [10:43:22] <tommorris> drewinthehead - I'm planning to add a Cache_Lite function to hKit.
  348. [10:44:06] <drewinthehead> why, tommorris?
  349. [10:44:27] <tommorris> So I'm not pulling in the same page three times if I'm searching it for hCards, hCals and hReviews
  350. [10:44:29] <drewinthehead> caching should really go before hKit
  351. [10:45:11] <drewinthehead> fetch the file yourself and use the string method ...
  352. [10:45:24] <tommorris> Okay, that seems more sensible actually.
  353. [10:46:07] <drewinthehead> keeps hKit as generic as possible ... everyone has their own way to do caching, so lets leave them to it
  354. [10:46:55] <tommorris> I set Cache_Lite up last night, so I'm just going through all the little gadgets and mashups I've written adding caching to them all.
  355. [10:47:38] <drewinthehead> i've not looked at Cache_Lite
  356. [10:49:24] <tommorris> It's quite simple. You can basically replace file_get_contents with a similar function of your own (like file_cache_contents).
  357. [10:49:57] <tommorris> You only need to pass it the directory, a unique ID (the MD5 of the URL works nicely) and an expiry time.
  358. [10:50:22] <tommorris> Then, it's not a bad idea to add a cronjob to "rm cache_dir/*" once a day.
  359. [10:52:27] * SignpostMarv (i=user@88-111-197-129.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has joined #microformats
  360. [11:37:55] * kensanata (n=alex@pdpc/supporter/active/kensanata) has joined #microformats
  361. [11:38:52] * briansuda (n=briansud@82.221.34.106) has joined #microformats
  362. [11:38:52] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  363. [11:38:52] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
  364. [12:08:53] <tantek> Marv, rel is inappropriate for indicating type of object information that may be orthogonal to the relationship. E.g. tags/categories on hCards are a much better way of labeling what "type" of a person/business the hCards are for.
  365. [12:09:37] <SignpostMarv> this isn't for hCards though, this is just for standalone links
  366. [12:12:13] <SignpostMarv> a standalone link, using no more than XFN, rel-tag and vote-links microformats
  367. [12:12:23] * Ronnos (n=Ronnos@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 2.0/2006101023]")
  368. [12:12:45] <SignpostMarv> no other microformats necesarily being in the document or surrounding the link
  369. [12:14:14] <tantek> right - with rel tag, note that the *rel* value itself doesn't indicate type or anything - that information goes into the href
  370. [12:15:23] <SignpostMarv> as i understand it, rel-tag means "this document (href value) is tagged with the contents of the anchor tag"
  371. [12:17:17] <SignpostMarv> (getting off the point again :-D)
  372. [12:20:59] <SignpostMarv> not getting into the quantifications of dead/living/imaginary or any other domains persons may exist in, there are three types of people- 1) natural, 2) virtual, 3) fictional
  373. [12:21:23] <SignpostMarv> although you could argue there's little distinction between virtual and fictional
  374. [12:21:59] <SignpostMarv> XFN as it stands, implies "natural", much as every link implies rev="vote-abstain"
  375. [12:26:40] <SignpostMarv> limiting yourself to those three types, using them in the class attribute of the XFNified link, you can then leave it up to a tag/category in an hCard block found in the linked document with the url of the hCard referencing the document if there's a need to quantify the type of virtual, natural or fictional purpose further
  376. [12:27:09] <SignpostMarv> avoiding the need and argument for rel="puppet" vs rel="avatar"
  377. [12:30:23] <SignpostMarv> loosely translating XFN for rel="friend", rel="co-worker", rel="friend co-worker" and rel="avatar friend" rel="puppet friend" into english gives you the following:
  378. [12:31:27] <SignpostMarv> "this person is my friend", "this person is my co-worker", "this co-worker is my friend", "this avatar is my friend", "this puppet is my friend"
  379. [12:31:42] <SignpostMarv> but if you just say rel="puppet" or rel="avatar", you get:
  380. [12:32:01] <SignpostMarv> "this person is my puppet", "this person is my avatar"
  381. [12:32:07] * danbri_ (n=danbri@168.226.3.35) has joined #microformats
  382. [12:32:16] * danbri_ is now known as danbri
  383. [12:32:24] <SignpostMarv> when you're wanting to say "this person is a puppet", "this person as an avatar"
  384. [12:34:02] * imajes (n=imajes@growl/imajes) Quit ()
  385. [12:34:04] <SignpostMarv> if you use the class method to explicitly state the type of person with rel="friend", you're then saying:
  386. [12:34:29] <SignpostMarv> "this natural person is my friend", "this virtual person is my friend", "this fictional person is my friend"
  387. [12:35:08] <SignpostMarv> how logical does that rant sound now i've typed it out I wonder ?
  388. [12:35:53] * imajes (n=imajes@cpc2-ware3-0-0-cust617.lutn.cable.ntl.com) has joined #microformats
  389. [12:50:36] * SignpostMarv wonders if Tantek went to sleep during that 8 hour gap
  390. [13:02:48] * bengee (n=bengee@muedsl-82-207-128-166.citykom.de) has joined #microformats
  391. [13:02:48] <jibot> bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
  392. [13:07:35] * briansuda (n=briansud@82.221.34.106) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  393. [13:11:38] <kensanata> i'm loving the tails thing.
  394. [13:11:49] <kensanata> http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/alex/About --> it even knows that CH stands for Switzerland.
  395. [13:13:16] <SignpostMarv> the firefox extension ?
  396. [13:14:03] <kensanata> yes.
  397. [13:14:24] <SignpostMarv> Tails or Tails Export ?
  398. [13:14:42] <kensanata> i guess it's just Tails because I don't know of a Tails Export. ;)
  399. [13:15:00] <kensanata> I installed it yesterday after seeing a demo at Bar Camp Zurich.
  400. [13:15:00] * SignpostMarv fetches link
  401. [13:15:55] <SignpostMarv> https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/2240/
  402. [13:16:10] <SignpostMarv> Tails Export is a replacement/upgrade to Tails
  403. [13:16:28] <SignpostMarv> as the name indicates, it lets you export some of the microformats to their native formats
  404. [13:17:06] <kensanata> ah i see.
  405. [13:17:26] <SignpostMarv> it's not FF 2.0 compatible though
  406. [13:17:32] <kensanata> well, i'd use that to export vcards to my address book, right? that, however, i don't need, since my address book sucks. ;)
  407. [13:17:53] <kensanata> I'm just using it to test my hCard. :)
  408. [13:17:59] <SignpostMarv> or to add hCal events to Sunbird
  409. [13:18:44] <SignpostMarv> I'm suprised they didn't feature it at BarCamp Zurich
  410. [13:20:28] <kensanata> http://www.keepthebyte.ch/2006/10/microformats-speech-at-barcamp-zurich.html
  411. [13:20:42] <SignpostMarv> Tails just displays the formats, i would've thought exporting them would've been a bigger deal
  412. [13:20:43] <kensanata> just in case you're *really* curious. ;)
  413. [13:20:50] <kensanata> hm.
  414. [13:21:48] <kensanata> i think his point was that ordinary people would not be using microformats. instead, developers should be adding it to their software, and then aggregators could automatically collect decentralized information for calendars, sales, etc. that made a lot of sense to people.
  415. [13:21:58] <mcknut> are either of you mac users?
  416. [13:22:06] <kensanata> dunno whether vcard files and import-export would have made much sense to him.
  417. [13:22:09] <SignpostMarv> heh. well a new version just so happened to be released the day after BarCamp :-D
  418. [13:22:17] <SignpostMarv> isn't that a coinkydink
  419. [13:22:38] <kensanata> mcknut: he had a mac, and i have a mac, but i use gnu/linux, windows, and macs.
  420. [13:22:43] <SignpostMarv> i have a mac on hand for emergency apple love
  421. [13:22:49] <kensanata> mcknut: dunno about him.
  422. [13:22:55] <kensanata> mcknut: why do you think it matters?
  423. [13:22:58] <mcknut> right, tails export doesn't support mac by default
  424. [13:23:08] <SignpostMarv> ah yes
  425. [13:23:08] <mcknut> but... http://blog.johnmckerrell.com/2006/10/23/microformats-tails-export-bluetooth/
  426. [13:23:09] <SignpostMarv> there is that
  427. [13:23:14] <mcknut> just whoring my link out ;)
  428. [13:23:19] * kensanata reads
  429. [13:23:48] * SignpostMarv is still getting used to the new tab bar in FF 2.0
  430. [13:24:02] <mcknut> there's still known bugs, but please do comment if you find anything
  431. [13:24:24] <mcknut> and now I'll relurk as I'm heading out, ttyl
  432. [13:25:40] <kensanata> heh
  433. [13:26:12] * SignpostMarv is currently lurking around while he waits for tantek to get sporadically continue the earlier discussion
  434. [13:26:37] <kensanata> SignpostMarv: in safari, i hated the close button on the tab bars, because it was possible to try and switch tab and close the target tab. hasn't happened to me yet on ff, so i'm not too angry. ;)
  435. [13:27:16] <SignpostMarv> my favourite improvement of Firefox over Mozilla was the lack of the [Ctrl] + [ Q ] hotkey
  436. [13:27:47] * SignpostMarv was forever accidentally hitting it instead of [Ctrl] + [ W ]
  437. [13:32:53] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) has joined #microformats
  438. [13:37:36] * tom-morris (n=tommorri@i-83-67-98-32.freedom2surf.net) has joined #microformats
  439. [13:48:46] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@host81-158-255-0.range81-158.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  440. [13:49:37] <julianstahnke> has anyone read that Apple uses hCard in their new .mac mail thing? http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2006/10/28/apple-embraces-microformats-in-new-mac-webmail/
  441. [13:50:00] <SignpostMarv> yes, we heard earlier
  442. [13:50:09] <SignpostMarv> from factoryjoe himself :-D
  443. [13:50:22] <julianstahnke> oh, sorry, was just so excited :D
  444. [13:50:42] * SignpostMarv doesn't use .mac, but can understand why it would be exciting :-)
  445. [13:51:59] <SignpostMarv> if I go poof again, it probably won't be because of my unstable net connection, but because I'll be running 30 or so instances of FLAC running at the highest compression settings at once
  446. [13:54:54] * tommorris (n=tommorri@i-83-67-98-32.freedom2surf.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  447. [13:55:03] * tom-morris (n=tommorri@i-83-67-98-32.freedom2surf.net) Quit ("Leaving")
  448. [14:04:34] * kensanata (n=alex@pdpc/supporter/active/kensanata) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  449. [14:05:52] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@host81-158-255-0.range81-158.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  450. [14:05:56] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@host81-158-255-0.range81-158.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  451. [14:14:25] * SignpostMarv will be signing off almost everything to give FLAC just that little extra juice, but will keep an eye on the IRC log
  452. [14:14:29] * SignpostMarv (i=user@88-111-197-129.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has left #microformats
  453. [14:22:36] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@host81-158-255-0.range81-158.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
  454. [14:25:17] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
  455. [14:28:37] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
  456. [15:03:13] <kapowaz> hey, bot. what are your commands
  457. [15:03:17] <kapowaz> ?bot
  458. [15:03:21] <kapowaz> ?answer
  459. [15:03:24] <kapowaz> hello computer
  460. [15:03:26] <kapowaz> computer?
  461. [15:03:32] <kapowaz> ah stuff it.
  462. [15:03:50] <danja> jibot, help
  463. [15:04:08] <danja> yeah, stuff it
  464. [15:04:09] <kapowaz> jibot, help
  465. [15:04:12] <kapowaz> oh
  466. [15:04:27] <kapowaz> I forget what I was even going to get the damned thing to do now.
  467. [15:07:36] <danja> tidy -asxhtml Hixie
  468. [15:07:38] <danja> bwahaha
  469. [15:21:35] * wildfire (n=wildfire@203.7.227.146) has joined #microformats
  470. [16:22:21] * danbri_ (n=danbri@168.226.9.111) has joined #microformats
  471. [16:28:49] * vmarks (n=vmarks@cpe-065-190-165-181.nc.res.rr.com) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  472. [16:30:16] * ajturner (n=ajturner@d14-69-64-67.try.wideopenwest.com) has joined #microformats
  473. [16:30:16] <jibot> ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com
  474. [16:33:25] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  475. [16:33:26] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  476. [16:39:36] * danbri (n=danbri@168.226.3.35) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  477. [16:39:46] * vmarks (n=vmarks@cpe-065-190-165-181.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  478. [16:39:46] <jibot> vmarks is in NC
  479. [17:15:52] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable128.203-56-74.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  480. [17:15:52] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  481. [17:46:27] * sreynen (n=sreynen@71-214-242-108.desm.qwest.net) Quit ()
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  483. [17:57:10] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
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  485. [18:28:34] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@host81-129-142-208.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  486. [18:45:28] * tommorris (n=tommorri@i-83-67-98-32.freedom2surf.net) has joined #microformats
  487. [18:49:53] * badd (n=ppopov@media.rc.edu) has joined #microformats
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  489. [18:54:12] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  490. [18:56:25] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  491. [18:56:26] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  492. [18:58:19] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host217-42-133-100.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
  493. [19:03:38] * sreynen (n=sreynen@71-214-242-108.desm.qwest.net) has joined #microformats
  494. [19:03:39] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
  495. [19:08:01] * tommorris is listening to Tantek �elik's talk from @media.
  496. [19:20:25] * ajturner (n=ajturner@d14-69-64-67.try.wideopenwest.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  497. [19:20:32] * ajturner (n=ajturner@d14-69-64-67.try.wideopenwest.com) has joined #microformats
  498. [19:23:34] * bengee (n=bengee@muedsl-82-207-128-166.citykom.de) Quit ("Leaving")
  499. [19:32:10] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable128.203-56-74.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  500. [19:41:21] * cgriego (n=cgriego@c-67-166-246-44.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #Microformats
  501. [19:41:22] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
  502. [20:03:55] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable128.203-56-74.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  503. [20:03:55] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  504. [20:09:21] <tantek> at 01:27am PDT kensanata wrote "http://microformats.org/code/hcard/creator is still broken?"
  505. [20:09:46] <tantek> I just fixed it
  506. [20:10:31] <tantek> verified that /code/hcard/creator and hcalendar/creator and hreview/creator now all load - please retry.
  507. [20:16:42] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  508. [20:16:42] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
  509. [20:18:20] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  510. [20:24:00] * danbri_ (n=danbri@168.226.9.111) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  511. [20:36:27] <tantek> note for SignpostMarv, avatars are essentially just another way to communicate with other people, like a phone number, an email address, or an IM handle. as such, it may be more appropriate to simply add a "url" property entry in your hCard that links to your avatar's home page, instead of any kind of "rel". we use urls for IM handles and don't bother with using rel for example. the other analogy is a social networking p
  512. [20:58:38] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host217-42-133-100.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  513. [20:58:39] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
  514. [21:32:45] * charles_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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  518. [22:14:56] * Ronnos (n=Ronnos@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #microformats
  519. [22:14:56] <jibot> Ronnos is Ron Kok, a friendly student Communication and Multimedia Design in The Netherlands
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  547. [22:27:57] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  548. [22:31:01] * neuraxon77 (n=craig@cust7394.vic01.dataco.com.au) has joined #microformats
  549. [22:32:08] * divoxx (n=rodrigo@201.37.108.13) has joined #microformats
  550. [22:42:10] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  551. [22:42:11] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  552. [22:42:14] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  553. [22:43:46] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  554. [22:49:45] * Ronnos (n=Ronnos@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 2.0/2006101023]")
  555. [23:02:30] * Ronnos (n=Ronnos@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #microformats
  556. [23:02:31] <jibot> Ronnos is Ron Kok, a friendly student Communication and Multimedia Design in The Netherlands
  557. [23:02:53] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
  558. [23:28:06] * kensanata (n=alex@pdpc/supporter/active/kensanata) has joined #microformats
  559. [23:41:26] * danja (n=danja@host242-220-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  560. [23:46:13] * kensanata (n=alex@pdpc/supporter/active/kensanata) Quit ("zzzzzz")

These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.

See http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot for more information.