IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-11-21
Timestamps are in UTC.
- [00:15:14] <tantek>
evanpro, actually I *do* mean making them work together
- [00:15:28] <evanpro>
oh!
- [00:15:34] <tantek>
OpenID and microformats share some common assumptions
- [00:15:53] <tantek>
like, the fact that a person has one (or more) url(s) that represent their identity
- [00:16:13] <evanpro>
mmm-hmmm
- [00:16:41] <tantek>
while OpenID let's you prove that you the user "are" that URL, microformats, such as hCard and XFN, allow you to put details about yourself *at* that URL
- [00:16:52] <tantek>
so there is a very natural synergy
- [00:17:03] <evanpro>
so microformats might be a nice way to share so-called profile information
- [00:17:07] <tantek>
not to mention what you could do with OpenID + XFN identity consolidation
- [00:17:10] <tantek>
precisely
- [00:17:17] <evanpro>
interesting
- [00:17:33] <tantek>
it is in fact, perhaps the *simplest* way to share profile information with OpenID
- [00:17:44] <evanpro>
There are some pretty complicated ways, too
- [00:17:50] <tantek>
using the most natural, *user visible/viewable* URL as your OpenID URL
- [00:17:59] <evanpro>
Right
- [00:18:00] <pnhChris>
i haven't looked in a while, but is claimid using xfn (or any other link format for that matter)
- [00:18:11] <tantek>
there are perhaps infinitely more complicated ways yes, but of course, there is not much incentive to even bother discussing them
- [00:18:25] <tantek>
claimid uses XFN identity consolidation I believe
- [00:18:31] <tantek>
as does technorati
- [00:18:50] <mfbot>
[[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=10405 * QMay * (+144) Examples in the wild -
- [00:18:53] <tantek>
so when you claim your blog, the link to your blog from your Technorati profile page has rel="me" on it
- [00:19:06] <tantek>
without you have to do any markup coding yourself
- [00:19:13] <pnhChris>
tantek .. something simialr tothis this? http://claimid.com/chriscasciano
- [00:19:29] <evanpro>
The main profile exchange right now with OpenID is Simple Registration Extension (sreg)
- [00:19:34] <evanpro>
http://www.openidenabled.com/openid/simple-registration-extension <-- this thing
- [00:19:38] <pnhChris>
(warning, i haven't looked at the code other then to see xfolk there)
- [00:20:02] <evanpro>
But it's pretty limited and it doesn't have the link orientation that XFN does
- [00:20:26] <pnhChris>
it seems like a start.. though i'm sure something more formal would be needed to really tie it all into a profile and be leveraged on different sites
- [00:20:50] <tantek>
pnhChris, it appears ClaimID does not use XFN rel="me" there
- [00:22:02] <tantek>
essentially all the links with class="taggedlink" should also have rel="me" on them
- [00:23:50] <tantek>
evanpro, note the mention of hCard on that page
- [00:24:54] <tantek>
sreg appears to define its own schema and vocabulary for "profile information", e.g. nickname, email, fullname, dob, gender, postcode, country, language, timezone
- [00:25:02] <tantek>
this is, in short, unnecessary reinvention
- [00:25:11] <tantek>
both reinvention of the schema (what set of fields)
- [00:25:20] <tantek>
and reinvention of the names (labels for the fields)
- [00:25:36] <tantek>
the simple answer is, don't reinvent, reuse
- [00:25:51] <mfbot>
[[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=10406 * QMay * (+5) Examples in the wild -
- [00:25:53] <tantek>
i.e. reuse the schema *and* names from hCard/vCard
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- [00:26:26] <tantek>
only "nickname" and "email" are the same
- [00:26:28] <tantek>
currently
- [00:26:34] <tantek>
dob should be bday
- [00:27:12] <tantek>
etc. see http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#Property_List for more
- [00:28:22] <tantek>
i'm more and more convinced BTW that "gender" is not deserving of its own field, rather, it should simply be a microtaxonomy of tags that are used on the hCard
- [00:28:27] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=10407 * QMay * (+147) Examples in the wild -
- [00:28:58] <mfbot>
[[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=10408 * QMay * (-1) Examples in the wild -
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- [01:10:09] <tantek>
anyone else here working on OpenID as well?
- [01:10:26] <tantek>
I'm thinking of creating a wiki page to track synergy points
- [01:10:30] <tantek>
such as the above
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- [01:40:10] <KevinMarks>
this new viewpoint on gender came from the squid party this weekend?
- [01:40:12] <KevinMarks>
;)
- [01:53:21] <tantek>
KevinMarks, although outside of the 80/20, I recommend you read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity to familiarize yourself with many of the issues
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- [08:54:31] <mfbot>
[[hproduct-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hproduct-feedback&diff=0&oldid=10409 * AndyMabbett * (+121) reply
- [08:57:17] <mfbot>
[[hproduct-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hproduct-feedback&diff=0&oldid=10410 * AndyMabbett * (+85) example
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- [09:03:33] <mfbot>
[[review]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/review * AndyMabbett * (+21) redirect
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- [14:07:22] * bengee wonders if the @href value in rel-tag anchors can be relative, e.g. <a href="../../tags/foo" rel="tag">foo</a>, iow do the current tools consider the page base?
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- [15:23:06] <drewinthehead>
bengee: that's two questions
- [15:23:18] <bengee>
yeah, I know ;)
- [15:23:25] <drewinthehead>
rel-tag uris can be relative, yes
- [15:23:58] <bengee>
'k, good, thx :)
- [15:24:07] <drewinthehead>
as for the tools, it'll depend on the tool.
- [15:24:11] <Frederic>
eve though "cool uris don't change"
- [15:24:19] <drewinthehead>
i think rel-lint will cope with that fine
- [15:24:34] <drewinthehead>
how is the uri changing, Frederic?
- [15:24:53] <Frederic>
drewinthehead: I just mean you can put the absolute url without danger
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- [15:43:05] <evanpro>
tantek: I had some ideas about using hCard as a profile exchange mechanism for OpenID
- [15:44:08] <evanpro>
The only problem I see is that there are access control issues for profile data
- [15:44:27] <evanpro>
With sreg, the user can decide which data to share with which depending parties
- [15:45:05] <evanpro>
For example, I may be comfortable sharing my email address with goodkarma.com but not with sleazyspam.net
- [15:46:07] <evanpro>
If profile info is in an hCard on my OpenID identity page, it can be read by anyone
- [15:48:46] <evanpro>
But it may make sense to do it this way:
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- [15:49:18] <evanpro>
For information I don't mind anyone having, I put that in my hCard on the identity page
- [15:49:33] <evanpro>
Other information I wait for requests, and pick among them
- [15:50:15] <evanpro>
An example consumer, say, may want my preferred language, timezone, and email address to set up a new account
- [15:50:45] <evanpro>
It could get the email address from my hCard, then request the other two items through sreg
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- [17:10:12] <tantek>
evanpro - yes, for sreg the mechanism you are correct
- [17:10:31] <tantek>
but sreg also has a mini-schema and mini-vocabulary for exchanging the specific information
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- [17:11:08] <tantek>
and that is what I'm complaining about - those should have been completely reused from hCard/vCard, rather than reinventing yet-another-set-of-profile-properties
- [17:11:16] <evanpro>
ah, I see
- [17:11:50] <tantek>
the bigger question is, how can we combat this tendency towards unnecessary reinvention?
- [17:12:12] <tantek>
is there simply a lack of understanding of the how and why to reuse?
- [17:18:53] <evanpro>
Interesting
- [17:19:08] <evanpro>
http://openid.net/specs/openid-attribute-exchange-1_0-02.html <-- this is the next-generation profile exchange spec
- [17:19:13] <evanpro>
Not yet finalized
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- [17:24:27] <tantek>
evanpro, it feels a bit overdesigned, and smells RDFy - given the requirement to use URLs for property names
- [17:25:07] <tantek>
of course the hCard profile provides a URL for each hCard property so perhaps there is some potential for reuse there
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- [18:19:41] * danja miskeys, http://technoratic.com - yuck!
- [18:19:54] <KevinMarks>
oops
- [18:20:13] <KevinMarks>
not as bad as python.com for python.org - that really threw me
- [18:24:12] * bewest shivers
- [18:24:14] <bewest>
KevinMarks: I've done that
- [18:24:20] <bewest>
disturbing
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- [19:00:04] <davecardwell>
KevinMarks: I wonder how many mis-hits Parents Helping Parents get
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- [20:11:05] <mfbot>
[[cheatsheet]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=cheatsheet&diff=0&oldid=10411 * Dougal Campbell * (+365)
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- [22:57:49] <mfbot>
[[cheatsheet]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=cheatsheet&diff=0&oldid=10412 * AndyMabbett * (+1) make list
- [22:58:20] <mfbot>
[[cheatsheet]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=cheatsheet&diff=0&oldid=10413 * AndyMabbett * (-1) copy edit
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