IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-11-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:07:00] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=10443 * MJ * (+178) Applications / Plugins / Services / Tools -
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  11. [01:54:51] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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  15. [03:07:10] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  31. [06:43:10] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  35. [07:55:36] <jibot> bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
  36. [07:58:41] * iand (n=iand@213.205.232.98) has joined #microformats
  37. [07:58:41] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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  42. [08:46:58] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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  44. [08:55:09] <jibot> Cloud is http://www.johnbreslin.com/
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  46. [08:58:18] <jibot> drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
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  49. [09:02:17] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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  52. [09:41:29] <jibot> Ronnos is Ron Kok, a friendly student Communication and Multimedia Design in The Netherlands
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  54. [09:43:55] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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  58. [10:39:48] <jibot> drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
  59. [10:40:32] * drewinthehead thought this place was deadly quiet, until he realised he was sat in #microformatas
  60. [10:48:39] <jinx> Given the increasing discussion on the net surrounding microformats, i'm surprised at the lack of conversation in here
  61. [10:50:29] <kapowaz> everybody's too busy talking on twitter to pay attention to old-school media like IRC.
  62. [10:54:46] <trovster> meh, twitter.
  63. [10:55:14] <trovster> Why isn't it using hAtom, that's the question (bringing it back to uF-related)
  64. [11:00:18] * kapowaz refers you to my earlier remarks about RSS :)
  65. [11:00:28] <kapowaz> even if RSS is a mess, it's the one with mindshare.
  66. [11:00:39] <kapowaz> but by all means suggest it to them?
  67. [11:00:57] <kapowaz> if we all email them enough, we can force twitter to be a microformats poster-child
  68. [11:06:04] * shawn (n=shawn@netblock-68-183-69-197.dslextreme.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  69. [11:08:26] * drewinthehead thinks posterchildren are overrated
  70. [11:08:50] * drewinthehead is stuck talking in the third person thanks to twitter
  71. [11:10:40] * julianstahnke_ (n=julianst@hq.last.fm) has joined #microformats
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  74. [11:37:25] <mfbot> [[microformats-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=microformats-issues&diff=0&oldid=10444 * Discoleo * (+2718) Bloated Format - Examples added
  75. [11:46:32] <mfbot> [[microformats-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=microformats-issues&diff=0&oldid=10445 * Discoleo * (+135) Correcting Page Layout Errors
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  77. [11:53:27] <mfbot> [[microformats-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=microformats-issues&diff=0&oldid=10446 * Discoleo * (+64) Further minor corrections
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  79. [12:02:44] <mfbot> [[measure-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=measure-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=10447 * Discoleo * (+303) Matrices - Reasoning for Matrices
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  82. [12:28:44] <jibot> drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
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  84. [12:36:36] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  85. [12:36:36] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
  86. [12:39:56] <mfbot> [[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=10448 * Phae * (+200)
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  88. [13:00:05] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  93. [14:04:20] <jibot> Cloud_ is Cloud
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  95. [14:37:58] <Mr_Elusive> ?def Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
  96. [14:37:59] <jibot> Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
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  98. [14:57:38] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  100. [15:03:09] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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  107. [16:21:25] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=10449 * WikiFromthefrontend * (+235) Applications / Plugins / Services / Tools -
  108. [16:22:26] <mfbot> [[implementations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=10450 * WikiFromthefrontend * (+5) ZDNet UK -
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  111. [16:46:44] <whaf> okay, so with all this talk of importing data into social networks upon signup, if you pointed someone to your website, would you just have to be sure to point the site to the most comprehensive hCard you have? otherwise, would there be any way to indicate that while the front page has some data in an hCard, the real meat of the content is on another page?
  112. [16:47:45] <tantek> whaf, think one step beyond import.
  113. [16:47:49] <tantek> i.e. subscribe
  114. [16:48:05] * charles_r (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  115. [16:48:07] <tantek> you simply point to your blog
  116. [16:48:14] <tantek> where you already have both your hCard
  117. [16:48:19] <tantek> and your XFN marked up blogroll
  118. [16:48:20] <tantek> done
  119. [16:48:24] <whaf> right, I get that much
  120. [16:48:40] <tantek> and your XFN rel="me" marked up identity facets
  121. [16:48:56] <tantek> which the subscribing UA could go spider as well
  122. [16:49:03] <whaf> but if the hcard at your primary url is not chock full of complete info, and your about page is, is there any way to determine where the most comprehensive hcard on your blog is located?
  123. [16:49:37] <adactio> So if I point to Flickr with rel="me", it should be able to go off and fetch contacts from there too (if they were marked up correctly).
  124. [16:49:41] <tantek> you don't need to know *which* is *most* comprehensive as long as you linked them together with rel="me"
  125. [16:49:55] <tantek> adactio *if* you have Flickr point back to you
  126. [16:50:02] <tantek> rel="me" requires symmetry
  127. [16:50:08] <adactio> Bugger
  128. [16:50:13] <tantek> which you do
  129. [16:50:19] <adactio> yay!
  130. [16:50:27] * tantek points to the fine details of http://gmpg.org/xfn/and/#idconsolidation
  131. [16:50:39] <whaf> ah, interesting point there about the symmetry (as I build a little social net)
  132. [16:51:35] <whaf> so the network to which you're subscribing should start with the initial URL and crawl around all URLs referenced with rel="me" and gather info until it finds no more?
  133. [16:51:54] * tantek points adactio at http://flickr.com/people/adactio
  134. [16:51:57] <tantek> and says view source
  135. [16:52:14] <tantek> and says look for rel="me"
  136. [16:52:17] <tantek> <grin>
  137. [16:52:32] <whaf> nice
  138. [16:52:38] <adactio> Sweet!
  139. [16:52:46] <tantek> so if adactio links back to his Flickr profile page with rel="me"
  140. [16:52:48] <tantek> *presto*
  141. [16:53:07] <adactio> Although that points to my front page, whereas my rel="me" pointing to my Flickr page is on adactio.com/journal
  142. [16:53:23] <whaf> jeremy: did you manually put rel="me" or did flickr do that cleverly?
  143. [16:53:31] <tantek> adactio, thus you need rel="me" links from your front page to your journal and back
  144. [16:53:49] <tantek> whaf - check your Flickr profile page and view source to answer that question ;)
  145. [16:53:51] <adactio> Ah!
  146. [16:54:18] <adactio> Or I just update my Flickr profile to point at my journal page.
  147. [16:54:20] <tantek> adactio, once they are all symmetrically connected like that, you can make transitive symmetric identity consolidation assertions as well
  148. [16:54:33] <whaf> ah hah, nice, forgot I had a flickr profile
  149. [16:55:15] <adactio> So maybe I should rel="me" to the link to my journal page in my global navigation... from there, the rel="me" links to Flickr, etc. can be found.
  150. [16:56:00] <adactio> But then it won't be reciprocal.
  151. [16:56:29] <tantek> adactio - right, you need a star configuration
  152. [16:56:31] <whaf> and would a network ideally only accept information from a given page when reciprocity is established?
  153. [16:56:37] <tantek> see diagram on aforementioned gmpg.org page
  154. [16:56:57] <tantek> whaf, ideally yes, but see aforementioned gmpg.org page for reciprocity details for specific networks
  155. [16:57:44] * whaf knows that the quilters he's targeting would have absolutely no use for this, but it'd be interesting to do nonetheless
  156. [16:58:14] * drewinthehead (i=mclellan@nat/yahoo/x-f6af0c3ec95b672f) has joined #microformats
  157. [16:58:15] <jibot> drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
  158. [17:03:23] <adactio> I've just tried editing my profile on Upcoming but it strips out the rel="me".
  159. [17:05:06] <trovster> heh, I tried gorilla microformatting, it didn't work :(
  160. [17:06:20] <tantek> adactio, I bet leonard can help us with that ;)
  161. [17:06:46] <adactio> Yeah :-)
  162. [17:07:16] <adactio> Interestingly, both Flickr and Upcoming add rel="nofollow" to links in profiles.
  163. [17:07:41] <tantek> which doesn't actually make sense, since they are first party links
  164. [17:07:43] <whaf> I just noticed the nofollow... strange, I'd think...
  165. [17:07:51] <tantek> that is, the author/owner of the profile is the one adding the links
  166. [17:08:37] <adactio> Spammers opening accounts to get Flickr/Upcoming googlejuice?
  167. [17:09:55] <whaf> but pagerank is going to be based on the specific page in a site... if no one links to that account page, the juice is a bit weak, no? it's a bit more far-fetched than making comments on a /. or digg page or something...
  168. [17:10:08] <adactio> By the way, Drew's rel-lint bookmarklet is an excellent way of doing a quick spot check of which social networks might already be using rel="me"
  169. [17:11:11] <tantek> Sweet. ZDNet.co.uk supports microformats. http://www.fromthefrontend.co.uk/2006/11/23/zdnet-uses-microformats/
  170. [17:11:25] <adactio> Yeah, saw that. Nice implentation.
  171. [17:11:46] * iand (n=iand@talis.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  172. [17:12:40] <julianstahnke_> what if there's a link with rel="nofollow me"?
  173. [17:13:09] * tantek needs to document that - came up in a phone call discussion with openid folks. nofollow nullifies the me
  174. [17:13:24] <tantek> nofollow really means - untrusted probably 3rd party content
  175. [17:13:26] <julianstahnke_> ah, so it won't work?
  176. [17:13:30] <tantek> it shouldn't
  177. [17:13:44] <tantek> in order to prevent 3rd parties claiming to be you
  178. [17:14:04] <tantek> like someone putting a rel="me" link in a comment in a blog post or something
  179. [17:14:09] <tantek> on a blog post
  180. [17:15:05] <julianstahnke_> but if you add rel="nofollow" to that link, wouldn't it be cleaner to look for rel="me" at the same time and remove that?
  181. [17:15:33] <julianstahnke_> but then again ... yeah, sorry, stupid me
  182. [17:17:14] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=10451 * Tantek * (+7)
  183. [17:18:35] <mfbot> [[xfn]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn&diff=0&oldid=10452 * Tantek * (-272) rewrote as an index/toc page
  184. [17:22:56] <mfbot> [[xfn-clarifications]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/xfn-clarifications * Tantek * (+662) drafted
  185. [17:23:06] <tantek> julianstahnke_ - there you go
  186. [17:23:34] <julianstahnke_> cheers :)
  187. [17:24:30] <julianstahnke_> user profiles, homepage url: could we remove the rel="nofollow" from the link to a users homepage in the sidebar and make it rel="me" instead?
  188. [17:25:01] <julianstahnke_> oh sorry, wrong window
  189. [17:25:12] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=10453 * WikiFromthefrontend * (+74) Companies / Developers / Organizations -
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  192. [17:50:32] * Cloud (n=Cloud@deri-wg1-2.nuigalway.ie) has joined #microformats
  193. [17:50:32] <jibot> Cloud is http://www.johnbreslin.com/
  194. [18:07:17] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit ()
  195. [18:12:50] * Ronnos (n=Ronnos@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #microformats
  196. [18:12:50] <jibot> Ronnos is Ron Kok, a friendly student Communication and Multimedia Design in The Netherlands
  197. [18:36:16] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=10454 * AndyMabbett * (+102) ZDNet UK - issues
  198. [18:36:42] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=10455 * AndyMabbett * (-1) ZDNet UK - issues
  199. [18:39:23] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=10456 * AndyMabbett * (+21) ZDNet UK - e-mail addys hidden
  200. [19:01:44] <tantek> adactio,julianstahnke_, re: upcoming microformat use improvement suggestions, feel free to add those ideas to the advocacy page under a section for upcoming
  201. [19:01:57] <tantek> the more specific you can be about what code to change on what page, the better
  202. [19:05:08] <tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/advocacy
  203. [19:12:15] <julianstahnke_> I have a question: on last.fm, should I mark up the people on the friends page as rel="friend"? Because one could argue that on community sites, friends aren't necessary as much of a friend as in "real life" (myspace comes to my mind where people have 5000+ friends)
  204. [19:14:27] * Phae (n=phae@80-41-135-23.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has joined #microformats
  205. [19:14:27] <jibot> Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
  206. [19:28:21] * Phae (n=phae@80-41-135-23.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22")
  207. [19:54:00] <tantek> julianstahnke_ it all depends on the UI used to gather the data
  208. [19:54:47] <tantek> you're right that on community sites, the term "friend" is quite watered down, especially when you are only given a binary choice, are you my friend yes or no
  209. [19:55:25] <tantek> for community sites which provide only one level of friendship that they call "friend", use rel="acquaintance" as that is much more accurate
  210. [19:55:31] <julianstahnke_> so should I rather use acquaintance?
  211. [19:55:32] <julianstahnke_> ah
  212. [19:55:39] * _d4rr3ll_ (n=d4rr3ll@taylor1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  213. [19:56:22] <tantek> some sites (like Flickr) provide two levels of friendship, "contact", and "friend". in that case, use rel="contact", and rel="aquaintance" respectively for the same reasons as above
  214. [19:56:35] <tantek> acquaintance
  215. [19:57:40] <julianstahnke_> okay
  216. [19:59:21] <tantek> only if the site permits/encourages distinction of acquaintances vs. friends then should the XFN rel="friend" value be used
  217. [19:59:54] <tantek> ironically, MySpace provides an implicit opportunity for this with their "top 8" distinction which could be mapped to rel="friend"
  218. [20:06:22] <mfbot> [[xfn-clarifications]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-clarifications&diff=0&oldid=10457 * Tantek * (+1068) added notes on mapping community site "friends"
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  223. [20:46:07] <jibot> Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
  224. [20:55:42] * tantek (n=tantek@c-24-6-138-86.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  225. [20:55:42] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  226. [20:55:42] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  227. [20:55:50] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=10458 * AndyMabbett * (+319) two issues
  228. [21:00:31] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=10459 * AndyMabbett * (+0) Issues - correction to my last
  229. [21:04:53] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("http://eswat.ca | Some Kind of Raid Boss")
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  233. [21:22:32] <mfbot> [[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=10460 * Tantek * (+86) added E.123 informative reference for TEL values.
  234. [21:24:22] * charlie_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  235. [21:26:33] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=10461 * Tantek * (+1048) resolved some recent issues
  236. [21:35:10] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=10462 * Tantek * (+244) added clarification of implementation vs examples in the wild. next up: analysis of each implementation and moving of simple "Examples in the Wild" from here to the respective microformats specs...
  237. [21:36:09] * Ronnos (n=Ronnos@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.76 [Firefox 2.0/2006101023]")
  238. [21:37:10] * miyagawa_ (n=miyagawa@monster.bulknews.net) has joined #microformats
  239. [21:41:52] * Ronnos (n=Ronnos@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #microformats
  240. [21:44:40] <tantek> Does the distinction between "Implementations" and "Examples in the Wild" make sense to people here?
  241. [21:45:06] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) has joined #microformats
  242. [21:45:06] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
  243. [21:46:34] * remi (n=remi@dsl-132-134.aei.ca) has joined #microformats
  244. [21:46:34] <jibot> remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
  245. [21:48:19] <Phae> tantek- barely. I didn't get it at first.
  246. [21:48:36] <mfbot> [[implementations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=10463 * Tantek * (+151) split Apple into Apple Computer and .Mac Webmail
  247. [21:48:53] <tantek> Phae, any suggestions you have for making that distinction clearer would be greatly appreciated.
  248. [21:49:22] * Phae ponders.
  249. [21:49:46] <tantek> I'm trying to avoid having /wiki/implementations be dilluted with a list of people/companies that have simply published microformats that are not the result of a tool they created - e.g. recent ZDNet.co.uk add - seems like an Example in the Wild
  250. [21:50:19] <Phae> Yeah, I get the difference now. It wasn't until after talking to you and a few others in here about the implementations page though.
  251. [21:50:28] <Phae> Implementations just says "it has microformats in it" to me.
  252. [21:51:22] <mfbot> [[implementations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=10464 * Tantek * (+11)
  253. [21:51:31] <tantek> you mean literally on the page? or that's your interpretation?
  254. [21:51:43] <Phae> My interpretation of what implementing means.
  255. [21:53:18] <mfbot> [[implementations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=10465 * Tantek * (+68)
  256. [21:54:07] <tantek> Phae, I'm trying to build a flattened local matrix of implementations on /wiki/implementations using two lists with fragment ID hyperlinks to each other.
  257. [21:54:17] <Phae> ok
  258. [21:54:17] <tantek> Take a look at the .Mac Webmail entry for example
  259. [21:54:27] <Phae> am doing
  260. [21:54:48] <tantek> you can click "Apple Computer" in the entry for .Mac Webmail and it scrolls you to the "Apple Computer" entry in the list of companies
  261. [21:55:17] <tantek> where you see .Mac Webmail listed as one of the tools/services they have implemented. If you click on that it scrolls you back up to the entry for .Mac Webmail
  262. [21:55:32] <Phae> right. :)
  263. [21:55:45] <Phae> i.e. can you do the same please phae?
  264. [21:55:46] * Ronnos (n=Ronnos@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.76 [Firefox 2.0/2006101023]")
  265. [21:56:10] <tantek> This way, as we get N implementers implementing M implementations the size of the page grows N+M rather than N*M.
  266. [21:56:35] <Phae> sure
  267. [21:57:05] <tantek> perhaps I need to write up a "how to edit this page" section
  268. [21:57:09] <tantek> because this is clearly non-obvious
  269. [21:57:42] <Phae> well, you can. you/we/i can clean the exisiting page and have that for future reference.
  270. [21:57:44] <tantek> or maybe I could ask you to help me with that - since you will likely use language that will be much more understandable to someone new, since you just grokked it yourself.
  271. [21:57:52] <tantek> with the writing of the section
  272. [21:58:12] <Phae> maybe you could
  273. [21:58:30] <Phae> :)
  274. [21:59:14] <tantek> ok how about I take a shot at it and you make it easier to understand?
  275. [21:59:15] <tantek> :)
  276. [21:59:54] <Phae> Alright.
  277. [21:59:59] * julianstahnke_ (n=julianst@host81-159-28-146.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  278. [22:02:55] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=10466 * AndyMabbett * (+476) Issues - responses
  279. [22:04:00] <Phae> I don't mind helping you, but two people working on one wiki page is bound to get confusing. Give me a shout when you're done playing with it.
  280. [22:09:41] <tantek> will do Phae - thanks
  281. [22:18:01] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=10467 * Tantek * (+2065) added Editing This Page section to hopefully make it easier to understand how to properly add implementations and developers to this page
  282. [22:18:02] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=10468 * AndyMabbett * (-30063) Examples in the wild - moved to [[hcard-examples-in-wild]]
  283. [22:18:55] <tantek> Phae, take a look at http://microformats.org/wiki/implementations#Editing_This_Page and see if it makes sense to you and feel free to edit/improve. You have the editing token for /wiki/implementations
  284. [22:18:58] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-examples-in-wild * AndyMabbett * (+30074)
  285. [22:19:23] <Phae> m'k
  286. [22:19:36] <tantek> thanks!
  287. [22:20:46] * danja (n=danja@host130-220-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
  288. [22:20:46] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
  289. [22:21:29] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=10469 * AndyMabbett * (-42) rationalise headings
  290. [22:22:20] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=10470 * AndyMabbett * (-1549) Additional Sites - moving to examples-in-wild page
  291. [22:22:31] <tantek> wow over half the hCard spec was Examples in the Wild. Amazing.
  292. [22:23:42] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=10471 * AndyMabbett * (+1188) Examples - added examples from Implentations page
  293. [22:24:39] <Phae> The hCard "wild" examples is getting rather long
  294. [22:24:53] <Phae> I'm not sure how valuable it is at that length, apart from as a "wow, that's a lot of examples"
  295. [22:25:14] <tantek> Phae, I have a bunch of /wiki/to-do items for organizing the hCard Examples in the Wild
  296. [22:25:34] <Phae> m'k. I vaguely recall a conversation about it but not where that conversation ended
  297. [22:25:54] <tantek> which will hopefully make it more approachable / valuable to both folks looking for examples to learn from, and places to attempt parsing
  298. [22:26:08] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=10472 * AndyMabbett * (+75) Related Pages - [[hcard-examples-in-wild]]
  299. [22:27:08] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=10473 * Phae * (+27) Proof read and minor edits
  300. [22:28:24] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples&diff=0&oldid=10474 * AndyMabbett * (+21) [[hcard-examples-in-wild]]
  301. [22:28:32] <jinx> looking at it from a different angle: the longer the list the more obvious it is that people actually do use the technology instead of it being just a buzz word
  302. [22:29:10] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=10475 * AndyMabbett * (+28) Implementations vs Examples in the Wild - link
  303. [22:29:15] <Phae> right
  304. [22:30:47] <Phae> but I think the implementations page is a better central place for that. The individual spec pages only really require a handful of good quality examples for people to learn from
  305. [22:32:07] <mfbot> [[implementations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=10476 * AndyMabbett * (-365) moving to examples-in-wild
  306. [22:32:53] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=10477 * AndyMabbett * (+343) moved from 'Implementations'
  307. [22:33:53] <tantek> jinx, yes, the length helps, but clustering it helps even more.
  308. [22:34:09] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=10478 * AndyMabbett * (+0) move to problem section
  309. [22:35:18] * remi (n=remi@dsl-132-134.aei.ca) Quit (Connection timed out)
  310. [22:35:21] * CaptSolo (i=captsolo@kaste.lv) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  311. [22:35:22] <julianstahnke_> I think the hCard page needs a link to a quick cheat sheet at the very top. The first time I came to that page it seemed incredibly confusing. The cheat sheet could include a list of all properties and one or two examples that show many of them.
  312. [22:35:30] * CaptSolo (i=captsolo@kaste.lv) has joined #microformats
  313. [22:35:48] <julianstahnke_> Something like a quick overview
  314. [22:36:00] <mfbot> [[implementations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=10479 * AndyMabbett * (+27) link
  315. [22:36:08] <tantek> julianstahnke - it has that - see hcard-authoring link at top
  316. [22:37:20] <julianstahnke_> well, that's not quite what I mean. I mean something like a pure list of properties and one example, without all the text around it
  317. [22:37:31] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=10480 * AndyMabbett * (-24) Flickr People - clarify link
  318. [22:38:07] * Phae will wait until Andy is done before doing anything else with implementations for tonight.
  319. [22:38:35] <Phae> I should really think about doing a blog post. hCard or XFN first?
  320. [22:38:56] <julianstahnke_> I love this cheat sheet for example: http://suda.co.uk/projects/microformats/cheatsheet/microformats.cheatsheet.pdf
  321. [22:39:02] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=10481 * Tantek * (+110) added links to specific examples in the wild pages/sections
  322. [22:39:06] <julianstahnke_> It gives you a really quick overview
  323. [22:43:31] <tantek> julianstahnke - would you like to attempt writing up a wiki version of that PDF?
  324. [22:43:48] <tantek> perhaps here? http://microformats.org/wiki/cheatsheet
  325. [22:43:49] <Phae> I believe there is already a HTML version
  326. [22:44:11] <tantek> Phae, a wiki version would be easier to keep up to date
  327. [22:44:17] <tantek> in a distributed authoring fashion
  328. [22:44:21] <Phae> I agree, but thought a HTML version might be quicker to convert from
  329. [22:44:23] <julianstahnke_> okay, I'll try to get started this weekend
  330. [22:44:25] <Phae> I can't find it anyway!
  331. [22:44:32] <Phae> Link is dead.
  332. [22:44:48] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=10482 * AndyMabbett * (-14410) moving examples in wild to own page
  333. [22:45:01] <tantek> julianstahnke, just try starting with hCard since that's the one you asked about
  334. [22:45:26] <julianstahnke_> yup
  335. [22:46:24] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-examples-in-wild * AndyMabbett * (+14460) moved from main hCal page
  336. [22:47:10] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=10483 * AndyMabbett * (-65) copy dit
  337. [22:49:21] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=10484 * AndyMabbett * (+38) move item with commentary to own section
  338. [22:49:49] * Phae loves how twitter web randomly dies.
  339. [22:51:00] * drewinthehead (n=mclellan@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  340. [22:51:01] <jibot> drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
  341. [22:51:12] <Phae> evening drew
  342. [22:51:17] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=10485 * AndyMabbett * (+0) =
  343. [22:52:33] <mfbot> [[implementations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=10486 * AndyMabbett * (-4) hcalendar-examples-in-wild
  344. [22:53:59] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=10487 * AndyMabbett * (+80) hcalendar-examples-in-wild
  345. [22:56:30] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=10488 * AndyMabbett * (-9193) hcalendar-implementations
  346. [22:58:17] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-implementations]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-implementations * AndyMabbett * (+9164) moved from main hCal page
  347. [22:58:53] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-implementations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-implementations&diff=0&oldid=10489 * AndyMabbett * (+14) link
  348. [23:01:31] * miyagawa_ (n=miyagawa@monster.bulknews.net) Quit ("SIGTERM received; exit")
  349. [23:01:59] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=10490 * AndyMabbett * (-7720) moving implementations to own page
  350. [23:03:32] * miyagawa (n=miyagawa@monster.bulknews.net) has joined #microformats
  351. [23:04:40] <mfbot> [[hcard-implementations]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-implementations * AndyMabbett * (+7716) moved from main hCard page
  352. [23:05:11] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-implementations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-implementations&diff=0&oldid=10491 * AndyMabbett * (+11) calrify totle
  353. [23:05:42] <mfbot> [[hcard-implementations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-implementations&diff=0&oldid=10492 * AndyMabbett * (+6) clarify title
  354. [23:07:43] <mfbot> [[Template:hcard]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Template:hcard * AndyMabbett * (+1389)
  355. [23:08:14] <mfbot> [[Template:hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:hcard&diff=0&oldid=10493 * AndyMabbett * (+12)
  356. [23:08:20] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=10494 * AndyMabbett * (-1380) Related Pages - made template
  357. [23:08:33] <tantek> might be better to rename that template to hcard-related-pages
  358. [23:08:41] <tantek> rather than just Template:hcard
  359. [23:10:06] <mfbot> [[Template:hcalendar]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Template:hcalendar * AndyMabbett * (+1440)
  360. [23:10:17] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=10495 * AndyMabbett * (-1411) made template
  361. [23:11:48] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-implementations&diff=0&oldid=10496 * AndyMabbett * (+35) == Related Pages ==
  362. [23:11:54] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-faq&diff=0&oldid=10497 * AndyMabbett * (+35) == Related Pages ==
  363. [23:12:00] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-issues&diff=0&oldid=10498 * AndyMabbett * (+35) == Related Pages ==
  364. [23:12:36] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=10499 * AndyMabbett * (+35) == Related Pages ==
  365. [23:12:42] <mfbot> [[vcard-suggestions]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/vcard-suggestions * Tantek * (+1117) drafted
  366. [23:12:54] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=10500 * Tantek * (+23) added vcard-suggestions
  367. [23:13:05] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-authoring]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-authoring&diff=0&oldid=10501 * AndyMabbett * (-166) == Related Pages ==
  368. [23:13:36] <mfbot> [[vcard-errata]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vcard-errata&diff=0&oldid=10502 * Tantek * (+59) cleaned up formatting a bit
  369. [23:14:32] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=10503 * Tantek * (+358) resolved a can't change vCard issue by at least creating a page for vCard suggestions
  370. [23:17:33] <mfbot> [[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=10504 * AndyMabbett * (+0) == Related Pages == moved to end as standard
  371. [23:18:34] <mfbot> [[hcard-authoring]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-authoring&diff=0&oldid=10505 * AndyMabbett * (-128) == Related Pages ==
  372. [23:18:50] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples&diff=0&oldid=10506 * AndyMabbett * (-103) == Related Pages ==
  373. [23:18:56] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=10507 * AndyMabbett * (+31) == Related Pages ==
  374. [23:19:02] <mfbot> [[hcard-faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-faq&diff=0&oldid=10508 * AndyMabbett * (+31) == Related Pages ==
  375. [23:19:08] <mfbot> [[hcard-implementations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-implementations&diff=0&oldid=10509 * AndyMabbett * (+31) == Related Pages ==
  376. [23:19:27] * julianstahnke_ (n=julianst@host81-159-28-146.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
  377. [23:20:17] * tantek (n=tantek@c-24-6-138-86.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ()
  378. [23:23:29] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=10510 * Phae * (+0) Blinksale -
  379. [23:26:00] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=10511 * Phae * (-50) Blinksale -
  380. [23:32:12] <mfbot> [[hcard-parsing]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-parsing&diff=0&oldid=10512 * AndyMabbett * (+31) == Related Pages ==
  381. [23:32:18] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=10513 * AndyMabbett * (+31) == Related Pages ==
  382. [23:32:29] <mfbot> [[hcard-feedback]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-feedback&diff=0&oldid=10514 * AndyMabbett * (+31) == Related Pages ==
  383. [23:32:35] <mfbot> [[hcard-profile]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-profile&diff=0&oldid=10515 * AndyMabbett * (+31) == Related Pages ==
  384. [23:33:03] <danja> damn, where do I know the name AndyMabbett from
  385. [23:33:21] <mfbot> [[hcard-tests]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-tests&diff=0&oldid=10516 * AndyMabbett * (+31) == Related Pages ==
  386. [23:33:30] <jinx> the lines that mfbot keeps spouting? ;P
  387. [23:33:32] <mfbot> [[hcard-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=10517 * AndyMabbett * (+31) == Related Pages ==
  388. [23:33:48] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=10518 * LongCall911 * (+194) Examples - added 1
  389. [23:33:48] <danja> jinx, maybe
  390. [23:36:07] <Phae> heh
  391. [23:36:18] <Phae> You can do /ignore mfbot if you don't want to follow the wiki updates.
  392. [23:39:34] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=10519 * AndyMabbett * (+1) Tools & Test Cases & Additional Research - dab
  393. [23:42:19] <Phae> argh. I wish we'd started out doing implementor author names as Surname, Firstname
  394. [23:42:30] <Phae> makes alphabeticalising look prettier
  395. [23:45:31] <jinx> C- for made up words
  396. [23:46:51] * Phae doesn't care.
  397. [23:48:36] * divoxx (n=rodrigo@201.37.108.13) has joined #microformats
  398. [23:49:40] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=10520 * Phae * (-6) cross linking and tidying
  399. [23:50:16] <danja> Phae, nice tip - thanks
  400. [23:50:38] <Phae> s'cool
  401. [23:52:02] <danja> wiki change prolly better through a feed, imo
  402. [23:53:35] <Phae> I find it easier to just watch the pages on the wiki I want to keep track of
  403. [23:53:42] <Phae> I scan the recent changes page every so often
  404. [23:54:04] <danja> what are you working on at the moment Phae (aside from recent changes)
  405. [23:54:30] <danja> right, I have the ESW wiki in my daily firefox tabs
  406. [23:54:49] <danja> is usually glance-close
  407. [23:55:02] <Phae> not a lot. I really must to to bed, tbh.
  408. [23:55:13] <danja> nn
  409. [23:55:21] <Phae> talk soon. nght
  410. [23:55:21] <jinx> nn
  411. [23:55:24] * Phae (n=phae@80-41-171-60.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22")
  412. [23:55:57] <danja> night jinx
  413. [23:56:12] <danja> or not
  414. [23:56:34] <jinx> heh
  415. [23:56:41] <jinx> i was saying nn to phae
  416. [23:56:53] <jinx> but now i am going to bed myself also
  417. [23:56:55] <jinx> so nn
  418. [23:56:56] <jinx> :D
  419. [23:56:59] <danja> yeah, took me a while to get that
  420. [23:57:04] <danja> nn
  421. [23:57:24] <danja> (I *should* go to bed...)
  422. [23:57:35] <jinx> one thing - what do you think of this site: http://www.pilok.com/index.php#
  423. [23:57:39] <jinx> it's not mine
  424. [23:57:41] <jinx> but I like the design
  425. [23:57:53] <jinx> and i'm thinking of something similar for my own site
  426. [23:58:00] <danja> amusing domain name
  427. [23:58:05] <jinx> yeah :)
  428. [23:58:44] <danja> are they not microformat.org colours?
  429. [23:59:16] <danja> looks nice though
  430. [23:59:25] <danja> bit slow on this isdn
  431. [23:59:48] <danja> curve...curve

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