IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-12-20
Timestamps are in UTC.
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sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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- [02:28:57] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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- [03:41:35] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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- [04:32:25] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
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Ronnos is Ron Kok, a friendly student Communication and Multimedia Design in The Netherlands
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- [08:38:50] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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- [10:56:51] <jibot>
julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
- [11:03:44] <mfbot>
[[geo-extension-strawman]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-extension-strawman&diff=0&oldid=11725 * AndyMabbett * (+112) Related pages -
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- [13:51:22] <jibot>
Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
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gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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- [14:12:22] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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- [14:19:35] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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- [14:31:25] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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- [14:41:07] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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- [14:50:25] <jibot>
markp is Mark Pilgrim
- [14:52:15] <monkinetic>
wow, markp
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DanC is Dan Connolly http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
- [15:10:26] <DanC>
briansuda, you sent mail about not quite being ready to check in some major XSLT updates...
- [15:10:46] <DanC>
Subject: Re: [uf-dev] HG and XSLT Refactoring
- [15:10:46] <DanC>
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:57:14 +0000 (12:57 CST)
- [15:11:11] <briansuda>
i have the files, but now everything includes a sort of master template, and there was talk of re-organizing the REPOS
- [15:11:25] <DanC>
latest hg commit I see is 2006-09-25 08:42:38
- [15:11:35] <briansuda>
correct.
- [15:11:40] <DanC>
would you please commit whatever you have?
- [15:11:56] <briansuda>
i can commit the files, but the paths will be broken at the moment.
- [15:12:02] <briansuda>
give me a few minutes
- [15:13:25] * DanC looks at hAtom stuff while standing by...
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- [15:17:43] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
- [15:18:38] <briansuda>
ok, i have committed to HG http://hg.microformats.org/x2v?mf=1be64547edf8;path=/ i have added several folders each with the corresponding XSLTs.
- [15:19:06] <briansuda>
each of those XSLT reference datetime.xsl and/or mf-templates.xsl a directory up
- [15:24:57] <briansuda>
DanC there have been a few hiccups with using these templates with the W3C XSLT 2.0 webservice, xstlproc and PHP's XSLT processor - each error on something different, but it is always a minor tweak
- [15:25:37] <DanC>
hmm
- [15:27:51] <briansuda>
my version of xsltproc chokes on templates matching xhtml:html/xhtml:body/ with the xhtml namespace, but that works with others - and (i think) XSLT 2.0 give errors about templates not being found, but with XSLT 1.0 that is just a warning.
- [15:28:12] <briansuda>
this is also why i was asking if we had a 'bug tracking system'
- [15:29:00] <DanC>
well, we have a test repository and a wiki; I'm sympathetic to ryan's argument that that's enough
- [15:29:36] <briansuda>
i do have a few worries about using the wiki, but i'm willing to give it a go at the start
- [15:29:51] <DanC>
any specific worries?
- [15:30:37] <briansuda>
the wiki only gives us 1 way to filter/search the tickets, and the tickets will be pretty keyword heavy and will show-up in standard search results for people wanting to learn about aspects and NOT implementation issues
- [15:30:42] <DanC>
re 'xsltproc chokes'... I'm interested to try to reproduce the problem. clues?
- [15:31:41] <DanC>
having only one view seems to work in cases like http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-issues
- [15:33:16] <briansuda>
yes, but when we have tickets that effect multiple issues in multiple XSLTs and/or creators (e.g. rel-tag trailing slash is valid tag [http://tagspace/tag/]) where does that go in the wiki? for each XSLT? how do we close it, and it spans multiple developers.
- [15:33:19] * DanC wonders if the "yes, multiple URIs are allowed" on http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-issues has a corresponding test; would like to see links from issues to tests
- [15:33:47] <briansuda>
these are sort of 'theoretical' so i'm willing to try the wiki
- [15:34:18] <DanC>
I suggest an x2v-issues topic.
- [15:34:26] <briansuda>
plus, when i commit to hg, i'd love to do "hg ci -m "fixed #34556" and not have to go to the wiki and edit multiple pages
- [15:35:06] <DanC>
hmm... the issues in http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-issues don't seem to get URIs
- [15:35:24] <DanC>
better to use mediawiki's TOC support, I suggest.
- [15:35:56] <DanC>
I suggest: hg ci -m 'addresses http://microformats.org/wiki/x2v-issues#blort'
- [15:36:21] <DanC>
which won't automatically close the issue in the wiki... yet... but it leaves open the possibility to automate it.
- [15:36:31] <briansuda>
but with the URIs be stable if tickets get moved around on the page? i would assume that they will be listed "open" "closed", i guess as the anchor name stays the same it should be OK
- [15:36:57] <DanC>
I like the pattern of including a date in the issue name
- [15:37:15] <DanC>
but it's a bit tedious
- [15:37:29] <DanC>
so what's one real issue?
- [15:38:13] <DanC>
hmm... your commit seems to result in 2 xhtml2vcard.xsl's. You didn't use hg's move/rename support?
- [15:38:15] <briansuda>
well, i'd like to sort/filter by my tickets only, or ONLY feature requests, or tickets older than 6 months, or sever tickets
- [15:39:03] <DanC>
for 50 or less tickets, you can use your browser's text search support. If we get more than that, we'll want to look at roundup.
- [15:39:08] <DanC>
So far, we have 0 documented issues.
- [15:39:42] <briansuda>
true, and that's why i can start with the wiki - someone just needs to create a template page to get us started.
- [15:40:17] <DanC>
why start with a template? you can't do a good template until you have 3+ concrete examples.
- [15:40:30] <DanC>
please, tell me about one real issue so I/we can stick it in the wiki
- [15:41:01] <briansuda>
ok, let me check my notes of things X2V fails on...
- [15:41:17] <DanC>
you have notes? let's start by pasting those in, wholesale
- [15:41:46] <DanC>
hmm... title search page for 'x2v' gives no results...
- [15:41:58] <briansuda>
it is less than 4 letters
- [15:42:09] <briansuda>
nothing is indexed under 4 chars
- [15:42:09] <DanC>
http://microformats.org/wiki/implementation-guidelines has got to be close...
- [15:42:34] <briansuda>
X2V's php does not correctly check for content-encodings
- [15:42:46] <briansuda>
X2V failed trailing slash in rel-tag (this is now fixed)
- [15:42:59] <briansuda>
FN == ORG (i don't think) is complete
- [15:43:06] <DanC>
php? oh... wow... there it is... ./get-vcard2.php
- [15:43:58] <briansuda>
i'll look into that and clean that up - one of those is probably php 4 and the other php 5?
- [15:44:14] <DanC>
no rush
- [15:44:26] <DanC>
it was news to me that there was any .php stuff checked in at all
- [15:44:47] <briansuda>
it is basically just the calls for the transformation, how to do XSLTPROC in PHP
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- [15:47:14] <DanC>
right; I knew there was php code on your server; I just didn't realize it was checked in.
- [15:48:49] <mfbot>
[[hcard-tests]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-tests&diff=0&oldid=11726 * DanC * (+163) note x2v hg repository and start x2v-issues page
- [15:49:17] <DanC>
logger, pointer?
- [15:49:44] <briansuda>
wrong channel :)
- [15:49:46] * DanC wonders which nick is the log bot, and how to ask it for a pointer
- [15:50:02] <briansuda>
http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/2006-12-20#T154917
- [15:50:42] <briansuda>
there is some debug to be done here: http://www.w3.org/2005/08/online_xslt/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fsuda.co.uk%2Fprojects%2Fmicroformats%2Fhreview%2Fhreview2rdfxml.xsl&xmlfile=http%3A%2F%2Fsuda.co.uk%2Fsandbox%2FGRDDL%2Ftest-data.html+&content-type=&debug=on&trace=on&troff=on&validate=on&submit=transform
- [15:51:03] <briansuda>
because this works fine for me: xsltproc http://suda.co.uk/projects/microformats/hreview/hreview2rdfxml.xsl http://suda.co.uk/sandbox/GRDDL/test-data.html
- [15:52:06] <DanC>
how to mark up headings?
- [15:52:15] <DanC>
ah...
- [15:56:40] <mfbot>
[[x2v-issues]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/x2v-issues * DanC * (+707) a few concrete issues and some mechanics noodling
- [15:57:41] <mfbot>
[[x2v-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=x2v-issues&diff=0&oldid=11727 * DanC * (+81) see also hcard-issues etc.
- [16:00:40] * DanC heads to GRDDL WG telcon...
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- [16:13:40] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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- [17:08:43] <Rods_Tiger>
one question. I don't know much about microformats yet, or hcards, even, but… what considerations are there for preventing people from using information in hcards about myself, or others I have access to, and performing identity theft?
- [17:12:16] <Rods_Tiger>
The reason I ask is that two weeks ago I was attacked and had my phone stolen. A Sony Ericsson K700i, which had the addressbook populated by bluetooth iSync from the iBook, so it took with it mine and my wife's name, address and dates of birth, all on the phone. As well as a lot of friends similar sets of info. Although the phone is now IMEI blocked, I now learn that the phone can otherwise...
- [17:12:18] <Rods_Tiger>
...still be used for the contacts and other files. It's all made me quite alert to how much personal identification I carry around with me and how easy some of it might get into the wrong hands.
- [17:13:32] <Rods_Tiger>
And if it does get into the wrong hands, there's no easy way of remotely 'turning off' the information that's already disseminated.
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- [17:28:00] <kapowaz>
whilst I sympathise with Rods, I don't think the situation he describes is any different to losing a well-detailed diary or 'little black book' of contacts.
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- [17:31:06] <kingryan>
good morning microformateers
- [17:31:21] * monkinetic nods
- [17:31:22] <kapowaz>
or indeed, good evening
- [17:32:18] <kapowaz>
I would suggest that the mechanism for securing personally identifiable information belongs in another layer than (say) microformats
- [17:39:23] * briansuda (n=briansud@82.221.34.106) Quit ()
- [17:46:22] <DanC>
regarding 'turning off' information that's already disseminated, we're doing some related research: http://dig.csail.mit.edu/TAMI/
- [17:47:43] <DanC>
rather than preventing unauthorized disclosure, we're looking into after-the-fact auditing to ensure that at least government agencies only use data for authorized purposes
- [17:48:14] <DanC>
I suppose TAMI doesn't help much to prevent bad guys from doing identity theft, though
- [17:52:41] <kingryan>
TAMI requires voluntary compliance, no?
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- [18:32:06] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [18:56:26] <DanC>
I think compliance in TAMI is not really voluntary; it's mandated by law. it's just not necessarily enforced until after the fact.
- [18:57:34] <DanC>
it's like newspaper stands in airports: nothing physically prevents you from taking a newspaper without paying for it; but if you do, the odds are good that you'll get caught and punished.
- [18:57:53] <DanC>
or at least somebody will look at you funny ;-)
- [18:58:25] <kingryan>
DanC: I guess by "voluntary" I meant that the complying party had to actually proactively act in order to make it happen
- [18:58:52] <DanC>
yes, in that sense it is
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- [19:09:39] <SamRose>
?herald
- [19:09:40] <jibot>
Stopped heralding
- [19:09:47] <SamRose>
?herald
- [19:09:48] <jibot>
Started heralding
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- [19:30:49] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
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- [19:58:16] <SamRose>
? learn SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
- [19:58:17] <jibot>
SamRose is not as smart as he thinks he is. But when he is thinking smart, can be found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, and http://blog.p2pfoundation.com and found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
- [19:58:53] <SamRose>
?forget SamRose is not as smart as he thinks he is. But when he is thinking smart, can be found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, and http://blog.p2pfoundation.com and found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
- [19:58:54] <jibot>
I no longer know anything about SamRose
- [19:59:08] <Phae>
You might wanna cut that down a bit ;)
- [19:59:08] <SamRose>
? learn SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
- [19:59:08] <jibot>
SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
- [19:59:19] * ChanServ sets mode +o Phae
- [19:59:27] <SamRose>
is that better?
- [19:59:34] <SamRose>
maybe still too much
- [19:59:35] <Phae>
Much :D
- [20:01:04] <SamRose>
Phae: I didn't realize that jibot remembers across channels. And, didn't realize that everyone gets to see commands to jibot.
- [20:01:17] * izo_ is now known as manah_manah
- [20:01:27] <Phae>
It's cool.
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- [20:04:59] <jibot>
markp is Mark Pilgrim
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- [20:05:40] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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- [20:08:28] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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- [22:35:14] <jibot>
BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk ( 0000/ 0100 GMT)
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- [22:49:01] <mfbot>
[[User:NTollervey]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:NTollervey * NTollervey * (+42)
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These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on
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