IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-12-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  12. [00:46:39] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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  31. [02:28:57] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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  37. [03:41:35] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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  48. [04:32:25] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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  51. [04:41:05] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  75. [08:25:59] <jibot> bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
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  78. [08:35:41] <jibot> Ronnos is Ron Kok, a friendly student Communication and Multimedia Design in The Netherlands
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  80. [08:38:50] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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  83. [09:05:57] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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  88. [10:56:51] <jibot> julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
  89. [11:03:44] <mfbot> [[geo-extension-strawman]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-extension-strawman&diff=0&oldid=11725 * AndyMabbett * (+112) Related pages -
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  103. [13:51:22] <jibot> Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
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  107. [14:06:44] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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  110. [14:12:22] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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  113. [14:19:35] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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  117. [14:31:25] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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  121. [14:41:07] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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  123. [14:50:25] <jibot> markp is Mark Pilgrim
  124. [14:52:15] <monkinetic> wow, markp
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  126. [15:09:54] * DanC (n=connolly@64-126-89-30.dyn.everestkc.net) has joined #microformats
  127. [15:09:54] <jibot> DanC is Dan Connolly http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
  128. [15:10:26] <DanC> briansuda, you sent mail about not quite being ready to check in some major XSLT updates...
  129. [15:10:46] <DanC> Subject: Re: [uf-dev] HG and XSLT Refactoring
  130. [15:10:46] <DanC> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:57:14 +0000 (12:57 CST)
  131. [15:11:11] <briansuda> i have the files, but now everything includes a sort of master template, and there was talk of re-organizing the REPOS
  132. [15:11:25] <DanC> latest hg commit I see is 2006-09-25 08:42:38
  133. [15:11:35] <briansuda> correct.
  134. [15:11:40] <DanC> would you please commit whatever you have?
  135. [15:11:56] <briansuda> i can commit the files, but the paths will be broken at the moment.
  136. [15:12:02] <briansuda> give me a few minutes
  137. [15:13:25] * DanC looks at hAtom stuff while standing by...
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  139. [15:17:43] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  140. [15:18:38] <briansuda> ok, i have committed to HG http://hg.microformats.org/x2v?mf=1be64547edf8;path=/ i have added several folders each with the corresponding XSLTs.
  141. [15:19:06] <briansuda> each of those XSLT reference datetime.xsl and/or mf-templates.xsl a directory up
  142. [15:24:57] <briansuda> DanC there have been a few hiccups with using these templates with the W3C XSLT 2.0 webservice, xstlproc and PHP's XSLT processor - each error on something different, but it is always a minor tweak
  143. [15:25:37] <DanC> hmm
  144. [15:27:51] <briansuda> my version of xsltproc chokes on templates matching xhtml:html/xhtml:body/ with the xhtml namespace, but that works with others - and (i think) XSLT 2.0 give errors about templates not being found, but with XSLT 1.0 that is just a warning.
  145. [15:28:12] <briansuda> this is also why i was asking if we had a 'bug tracking system'
  146. [15:29:00] <DanC> well, we have a test repository and a wiki; I'm sympathetic to ryan's argument that that's enough
  147. [15:29:36] <briansuda> i do have a few worries about using the wiki, but i'm willing to give it a go at the start
  148. [15:29:51] <DanC> any specific worries?
  149. [15:30:37] <briansuda> the wiki only gives us 1 way to filter/search the tickets, and the tickets will be pretty keyword heavy and will show-up in standard search results for people wanting to learn about aspects and NOT implementation issues
  150. [15:30:42] <DanC> re 'xsltproc chokes'... I'm interested to try to reproduce the problem. clues?
  151. [15:31:41] <DanC> having only one view seems to work in cases like http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-issues
  152. [15:33:16] <briansuda> yes, but when we have tickets that effect multiple issues in multiple XSLTs and/or creators (e.g. rel-tag trailing slash is valid tag [http://tagspace/tag/]) where does that go in the wiki? for each XSLT? how do we close it, and it spans multiple developers.
  153. [15:33:19] * DanC wonders if the "yes, multiple URIs are allowed" on http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-issues has a corresponding test; would like to see links from issues to tests
  154. [15:33:47] <briansuda> these are sort of 'theoretical' so i'm willing to try the wiki
  155. [15:34:18] <DanC> I suggest an x2v-issues topic.
  156. [15:34:26] <briansuda> plus, when i commit to hg, i'd love to do "hg ci -m "fixed #34556" and not have to go to the wiki and edit multiple pages
  157. [15:35:06] <DanC> hmm... the issues in http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-issues don't seem to get URIs
  158. [15:35:24] <DanC> better to use mediawiki's TOC support, I suggest.
  159. [15:35:56] <DanC> I suggest: hg ci -m 'addresses http://microformats.org/wiki/x2v-issues#blort'
  160. [15:36:21] <DanC> which won't automatically close the issue in the wiki... yet... but it leaves open the possibility to automate it.
  161. [15:36:31] <briansuda> but with the URIs be stable if tickets get moved around on the page? i would assume that they will be listed "open" "closed", i guess as the anchor name stays the same it should be OK
  162. [15:36:57] <DanC> I like the pattern of including a date in the issue name
  163. [15:37:15] <DanC> but it's a bit tedious
  164. [15:37:29] <DanC> so what's one real issue?
  165. [15:38:13] <DanC> hmm... your commit seems to result in 2 xhtml2vcard.xsl's. You didn't use hg's move/rename support?
  166. [15:38:15] <briansuda> well, i'd like to sort/filter by my tickets only, or ONLY feature requests, or tickets older than 6 months, or sever tickets
  167. [15:39:03] <DanC> for 50 or less tickets, you can use your browser's text search support. If we get more than that, we'll want to look at roundup.
  168. [15:39:08] <DanC> So far, we have 0 documented issues.
  169. [15:39:42] <briansuda> true, and that's why i can start with the wiki - someone just needs to create a template page to get us started.
  170. [15:40:17] <DanC> why start with a template? you can't do a good template until you have 3+ concrete examples.
  171. [15:40:30] <DanC> please, tell me about one real issue so I/we can stick it in the wiki
  172. [15:41:01] <briansuda> ok, let me check my notes of things X2V fails on...
  173. [15:41:17] <DanC> you have notes? let's start by pasting those in, wholesale
  174. [15:41:46] <DanC> hmm... title search page for 'x2v' gives no results...
  175. [15:41:58] <briansuda> it is less than 4 letters
  176. [15:42:09] <briansuda> nothing is indexed under 4 chars
  177. [15:42:09] <DanC> http://microformats.org/wiki/implementation-guidelines has got to be close...
  178. [15:42:34] <briansuda> X2V's php does not correctly check for content-encodings
  179. [15:42:46] <briansuda> X2V failed trailing slash in rel-tag (this is now fixed)
  180. [15:42:59] <briansuda> FN == ORG (i don't think) is complete
  181. [15:43:06] <DanC> php? oh... wow... there it is... ./get-vcard2.php
  182. [15:43:58] <briansuda> i'll look into that and clean that up - one of those is probably php 4 and the other php 5?
  183. [15:44:14] <DanC> no rush
  184. [15:44:26] <DanC> it was news to me that there was any .php stuff checked in at all
  185. [15:44:47] <briansuda> it is basically just the calls for the transformation, how to do XSLTPROC in PHP
  186. [15:46:49] * malware (n=mikes@58.157.21.205) has joined #microformats
  187. [15:47:14] <DanC> right; I knew there was php code on your server; I just didn't realize it was checked in.
  188. [15:48:49] <mfbot> [[hcard-tests]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-tests&diff=0&oldid=11726 * DanC * (+163) note x2v hg repository and start x2v-issues page
  189. [15:49:17] <DanC> logger, pointer?
  190. [15:49:44] <briansuda> wrong channel :)
  191. [15:49:46] * DanC wonders which nick is the log bot, and how to ask it for a pointer
  192. [15:50:02] <briansuda> http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/2006-12-20#T154917
  193. [15:50:42] <briansuda> there is some debug to be done here: http://www.w3.org/2005/08/online_xslt/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fsuda.co.uk%2Fprojects%2Fmicroformats%2Fhreview%2Fhreview2rdfxml.xsl&xmlfile=http%3A%2F%2Fsuda.co.uk%2Fsandbox%2FGRDDL%2Ftest-data.html+&content-type=&debug=on&trace=on&troff=on&validate=on&submit=transform
  194. [15:51:03] <briansuda> because this works fine for me: xsltproc http://suda.co.uk/projects/microformats/hreview/hreview2rdfxml.xsl http://suda.co.uk/sandbox/GRDDL/test-data.html
  195. [15:52:06] <DanC> how to mark up headings?
  196. [15:52:15] <DanC> ah...
  197. [15:56:40] <mfbot> [[x2v-issues]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/x2v-issues * DanC * (+707) a few concrete issues and some mechanics noodling
  198. [15:57:41] <mfbot> [[x2v-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=x2v-issues&diff=0&oldid=11727 * DanC * (+81) see also hcard-issues etc.
  199. [16:00:40] * DanC heads to GRDDL WG telcon...
  200. [16:05:55] * Ronnos (n=chatzill@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  203. [16:13:40] * cgriego (n=cgriego@rrcs-64-183-177-226.sw.biz.rr.com) has joined #Microformats
  204. [16:13:40] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
  205. [16:22:59] * charlie_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
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  209. [16:59:04] * ChanServ sets mode +o sreynen
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  212. [17:06:56] * Rods_Tiger (n=Ian@host81-134-30-103.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #microformats
  213. [17:07:33] * stuup (n=stuup@62-249-234-122.no-dns-yet.enta.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  214. [17:08:43] <Rods_Tiger> one question. I don't know much about microformats yet, or hcards, even, but… what considerations are there for preventing people from using information in hcards about myself, or others I have access to, and performing identity theft?
  215. [17:12:16] <Rods_Tiger> The reason I ask is that two weeks ago I was attacked and had my phone stolen. A Sony Ericsson K700i, which had the addressbook populated by bluetooth iSync from the iBook, so it took with it mine and my wife's name, address and dates of birth, all on the phone. As well as a lot of friends similar sets of info. Although the phone is now IMEI blocked, I now learn that the phone can otherwise...
  216. [17:12:18] <Rods_Tiger> ...still be used for the contacts and other files. It's all made me quite alert to how much personal identification I carry around with me and how easy some of it might get into the wrong hands.
  217. [17:13:32] <Rods_Tiger> And if it does get into the wrong hands, there's no easy way of remotely 'turning off' the information that's already disseminated.
  218. [17:14:07] * cgriego (n=cgriego@rrcs-64-183-177-226.sw.biz.rr.com) Quit ()
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  221. [17:19:05] * Rods_Tiger (n=Ian@host81-134-30-103.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0/2006101023]")
  222. [17:25:29] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  223. [17:25:29] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  224. [17:26:03] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Aav204.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
  225. [17:28:00] <kapowaz> whilst I sympathise with Rods, I don't think the situation he describes is any different to losing a well-detailed diary or 'little black book' of contacts.
  226. [17:29:13] * monkinetic (n=steve@bia.crschmidt.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  227. [17:30:58] * monkinetic (n=steve@bia.crschmidt.net) has joined #microformats
  228. [17:31:06] <kingryan> good morning microformateers
  229. [17:31:21] * monkinetic nods
  230. [17:31:22] <kapowaz> or indeed, good evening
  231. [17:32:18] <kapowaz> I would suggest that the mechanism for securing personally identifiable information belongs in another layer than (say) microformats
  232. [17:39:23] * briansuda (n=briansud@82.221.34.106) Quit ()
  233. [17:46:22] <DanC> regarding 'turning off' information that's already disseminated, we're doing some related research: http://dig.csail.mit.edu/TAMI/
  234. [17:47:43] <DanC> rather than preventing unauthorized disclosure, we're looking into after-the-fact auditing to ensure that at least government agencies only use data for authorized purposes
  235. [17:48:14] <DanC> I suppose TAMI doesn't help much to prevent bad guys from doing identity theft, though
  236. [17:52:41] <kingryan> TAMI requires voluntary compliance, no?
  237. [17:56:45] * malware (n=mikes@58.157.21.205) Quit ("Get behind me, satan.")
  238. [17:58:07] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
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  247. [18:12:03] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ("Leaving")
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  253. [18:32:06] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  254. [18:32:06] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  255. [18:39:07] * markp (n=chatzill@adsl-221-33-211.rmo.bellsouth.net) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
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  257. [18:56:26] <DanC> I think compliance in TAMI is not really voluntary; it's mandated by law. it's just not necessarily enforced until after the fact.
  258. [18:57:34] <DanC> it's like newspaper stands in airports: nothing physically prevents you from taking a newspaper without paying for it; but if you do, the odds are good that you'll get caught and punished.
  259. [18:57:53] <DanC> or at least somebody will look at you funny ;-)
  260. [18:58:25] <kingryan> DanC: I guess by "voluntary" I meant that the complying party had to actually proactively act in order to make it happen
  261. [18:58:52] <DanC> yes, in that sense it is
  262. [19:01:19] * lhalff (n=lhalff@adsl-67-113-14-165.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  263. [19:09:39] <SamRose> ?herald
  264. [19:09:40] <jibot> Stopped heralding
  265. [19:09:47] <SamRose> ?herald
  266. [19:09:48] <jibot> Started heralding
  267. [19:18:51] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@cs181170022.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
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  272. [19:30:49] <jibot> Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
  273. [19:31:07] * ChanServ sets mode +o Phae
  274. [19:31:13] * Prometheus^^ (n=Promethe@cs181170022.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
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  281. [19:53:51] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@cs181170022.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
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  284. [19:58:16] <SamRose> ? learn SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
  285. [19:58:17] <jibot> SamRose is not as smart as he thinks he is. But when he is thinking smart, can be found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, and http://blog.p2pfoundation.com and found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
  286. [19:58:53] <SamRose> ?forget SamRose is not as smart as he thinks he is. But when he is thinking smart, can be found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, and http://blog.p2pfoundation.com and found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
  287. [19:58:54] <jibot> I no longer know anything about SamRose
  288. [19:59:08] <Phae> You might wanna cut that down a bit ;)
  289. [19:59:08] <SamRose> ? learn SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
  290. [19:59:08] <jibot> SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
  291. [19:59:19] * ChanServ sets mode +o Phae
  292. [19:59:27] <SamRose> is that better?
  293. [19:59:34] <SamRose> maybe still too much
  294. [19:59:35] <Phae> Much :D
  295. [20:01:04] <SamRose> Phae: I didn't realize that jibot remembers across channels. And, didn't realize that everyone gets to see commands to jibot.
  296. [20:01:17] * izo_ is now known as manah_manah
  297. [20:01:27] <Phae> It's cool.
  298. [20:02:31] * Prometheus^^ (n=Promethe@cs181170022.pp.htv.fi) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  299. [20:04:58] * markp (i=chatzill@nat/ibm/x-feb7074f2c3f14b2) has joined #microformats
  300. [20:04:59] <jibot> markp is Mark Pilgrim
  301. [20:05:40] * cgriego (n=cgriego@rrcs-64-183-177-226.sw.biz.rr.com) has joined #Microformats
  302. [20:05:40] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
  303. [20:08:28] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-139-123-225.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  304. [20:08:28] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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  341. [22:35:14] <jibot> BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk ( 0000/ 0100 GMT)
  342. [22:41:34] * BenWard (n=BenWard@cpc3-cmbg2-0-0-cust58.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) Quit ()
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  344. [22:49:01] <mfbot> [[User:NTollervey]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:NTollervey * NTollervey * (+42)
  345. [22:52:16] * manah_manah (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
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These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.

See http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot for more information.