IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-12-19
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [03:01:48] <jibot>
bewest is Ben West and lives in San Francisco, CA. He daydreams about web style software, works at Alexa.com and blogs at http://bewest.wordpress.com/
- [03:13:27] * dardarsauce (n=dardarsa@c-24-4-232-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
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- [03:25:08] <jibot>
markp is Mark Pilgrim
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- [04:15:03] <jibot>
Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
- [04:16:54] <mfbot>
[[hresume]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=11664 * Csarven * (+113) Examples in the wild -
- [04:19:44] <csarven>
implementing hResume took a little longer then i expected. fun
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- [05:42:53] <mfbot>
[[firefox-extensions-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=firefox-extensions-fr&diff=0&oldid=11665 * ChristopheDucamp * (+27)
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- [05:44:04] * ChanServ sets mode +o bewest
- [05:44:04] <jibot>
bewest is Ben West and lives in San Francisco, CA. He daydreams about web style software, works at Alexa.com and blogs at http://bewest.wordpress.com/
- [05:48:24] <mfbot>
[[firefox-extensions-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=firefox-extensions-fr&diff=0&oldid=11666 * ChristopheDucamp * (+48) sync'd with original version
- [05:49:30] <mfbot>
[[firefox-extensions-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=firefox-extensions-fr&diff=0&oldid=11667 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1)
- [05:53:51] <mfbot>
[[implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=11668 * ChristopheDucamp * (+273) WP Thèmes -
- [05:55:12] <mfbot>
[[User:Jax]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:Jax * Jax * (+98) Self introduction
- [05:55:28] <mfbot>
[[hresume]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=11669 * Jax * (+13) Examples in the wild -
- [05:57:19] <mfbot>
[[implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=11670 * ChristopheDucamp * (+192) phpMicroformats -
- [05:58:45] <mfbot>
[[implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=11671 * ChristopheDucamp * (-65) Chris Saccheri -
- [06:12:21] <mfbot>
[[icons-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=icons-fr&diff=0&oldid=11672 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1251) sync'd
- [06:15:58] <mfbot>
[[vote-links-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vote-links-fr&diff=0&oldid=11673 * ChristopheDucamp * (+151) Implémentations -
- [06:16:44] <mfbot>
[[vote-links-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vote-links-fr&diff=0&oldid=11674 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1)
- [06:19:45] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=11675 * ChristopheDucamp * (+44) Librairies - typo
- [06:22:36] <mfbot>
[[votelinks-issues-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/votelinks-issues-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+988)
- [06:23:12] <mfbot>
[[votelinks-issues-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=votelinks-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=11676 * ChristopheDucamp * (+2)
- [06:31:03] <mfbot>
[[hcard-cheatsheet-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-cheatsheet-fr&diff=0&oldid=11677 * ChristopheDucamp * (+216) sync'd with original version
- [06:35:14] <mfbot>
[[geo-cheatsheet-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/geo-cheatsheet-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+695) creation
- [06:35:31] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit ("back soon, no doubt")
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- [06:37:45] <mfbot>
[[Template:geo-related-pages-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Template:geo-related-pages-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+490) creation
- [06:39:16] <mfbot>
[[adr-cheatsheet-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/adr-cheatsheet-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+428) creation
- [06:41:17] <mfbot>
[[Template:adr-related-pages-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Template:adr-related-pages-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+286)
- [06:41:58] * Ronnos (n=Ronnos@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #microformats
- [06:41:58] <jibot>
Ronnos is Ron Kok, a friendly student Communication and Multimedia Design in The Netherlands
- [06:46:13] <mfbot>
[[hatom-cheatsheet-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-cheatsheet-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+939) creation
- [06:48:20] <mfbot>
[[Template:hatom-related-pages-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Template:hatom-related-pages-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+323) création
- [06:50:21] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-cheatsheet-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-cheatsheet-fr&diff=0&oldid=11678 * ChristopheDucamp * (+42) localisation class, dtend, dtstart, uid à prévoir
- [06:51:47] <mfbot>
[[class-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/class-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+229) creation
- [06:53:08] <mfbot>
[[dtend-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/dtend-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+73) creation
- [06:53:59] <mfbot>
[[dtstart-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/dtstart-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+77) creation
- [06:58:00] <mfbot>
[[uid]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=uid&diff=0&oldid=11679 * ChristopheDucamp * (+133) creation
- [06:58:41] <mfbot>
[[implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=11680 * ChristopheDucamp * (+3) Editer Cette Page -
- [06:59:12] <mfbot>
[[implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=11681 * ChristopheDucamp * (+3) Editer Cette Page - typo
- [07:01:33] <mfbot>
[[uid]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=uid&diff=0&oldid=11682 * ChristopheDucamp * (-133) revert previous version - content moved to uid-fr
- [07:01:59] <mfbot>
[[uid-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/uid-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+642) content imported from uid (fr translation)
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- [07:05:55] <mfbot>
[[uid-examples-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/uid-examples-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+3290) creation
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- [07:22:06] <mfbot>
[[uid-brainstorming-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/uid-brainstorming-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+7276) translation to be achieved
- [07:26:07] <mfbot>
[[xoxo-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo-fr&diff=0&oldid=11683 * ChristopheDucamp * (+4) XOXO XML Simple bien-formé - closing mark
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- [07:31:19] <mfbot>
[[Main Page-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=11684 * ChristopheDucamp * (+179) Pour démarrer - Aidez à amorcer la communauté francophone
- [07:31:50] <mfbot>
[[Main Page-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=11685 * ChristopheDucamp * (-40) Pour démarrer -
- [07:32:41] <mfbot>
[[Main Page-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=11686 * ChristopheDucamp * (+11) Définition -
- [07:33:14] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
- [07:33:14] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [07:33:14] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [07:35:07] <mfbot>
[[rel-license-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-license-fr&diff=0&oldid=11687 * ChristopheDucamp * (+99) Implémentations - add == Liste de Licences ==
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- [07:39:25] <jibot>
bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
- [07:46:08] <mfbot>
[[rel-license-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-license-fr&diff=0&oldid=11688 * ChristopheDucamp * (+135) sync'd with original version
- [07:48:42] * malware is now known as mojibake
- [07:50:04] <mfbot>
[[rellicense-issues-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rellicense-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=11689 * ChristopheDucamp * (+42) to be translated - link vers fr translation html spec
- [08:06:56] <mfbot>
[[rel-tag-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-fr&diff=0&oldid=11690 * ChristopheDucamp * (+625) sync'd + * {{rel-tag-related-pages-fr}} à créer
- [08:10:02] <mfbot>
[[Template:rel-tag-related-pages-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Template:rel-tag-related-pages-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+661) création
- [08:18:08] <mfbot>
[[rel-tag-spaces-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-tag-spaces-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+1901) création (à étudier pour localiser un exemple en français)
- [08:32:07] <mfbot>
[[rel-tag-faq-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-faq-fr&diff=0&oldid=11691 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1311) Q&R - sync'd
- [08:34:38] <mfbot>
[[rel-tag-feedback-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-feedback-fr&diff=0&oldid=11692 * ChristopheDucamp * (+56) {{rel-tag-related-pages-fr}}
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- [08:39:34] <mfbot>
[[rel-tag-issues-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=11693 * ChristopheDucamp * (+763)
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- [08:53:00] <mfbot>
[[rel-tag-issues-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=11694 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1597) sync'd with original version
- [08:53:26] <mfbot>
[[rel-tag-issues-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=11695 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0)
- [08:56:12] <mfbot>
[[rel-tag-issues-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=11696 * ChristopheDucamp * (+26) copyedit, typo
- [08:58:48] <mfbot>
[[rest/rex-proposal]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/rex-proposal&diff=0&oldid=11697 * Agtlewis * (+70) For More Information -
- [08:59:43] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
- [08:59:43] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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- [09:24:45] <mfbot>
[[hcard-cheatsheet]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-cheatsheet&diff=0&oldid=11698 * MarkTranchant * (+23) fixing URL in Notes
- [09:41:00] * Lachy (n=Lachlan@203-206-231-215.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #microformats
- [09:50:08] * mojibake (n=mikes@s185090.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) Quit ("Get behind me, satan.")
- [09:57:43] * Charl (n=charlvn@c1-170-9.wblv.isadsl.co.za) has joined #microformats
- [09:57:43] <jibot>
Charl is Charl van Niekerk and writes about standards at http://standards.za.net/
- [10:10:59] * Cloud (n=Cloud@deri-dmz2.nuigalway.ie) has joined #microformats
- [10:10:59] <jibot>
Cloud is http://www.johnbreslin.com/
- [10:17:53] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=11699 * PsyPress * (+295) New Examples -
- [10:21:09] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=11700 * PsyPress * (+261) New Examples -
- [10:46:09] * StevieBM (i=StevieBM@nat/yahoo/x-d58b3301baad86a4) has joined #microformats
- [10:51:47] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@hq.last.fm) has joined #microformats
- [10:51:47] <jibot>
julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
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- [12:19:01] * Ronnos (n=Ronnos@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #microformats
- [12:19:01] <jibot>
Ronnos is Ron Kok, a friendly student Communication and Multimedia Design in The Netherlands
- [12:31:53] * JMulder (n=me@ip9135c771.speed.planet.nl) has joined #microformats
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- [12:56:26] * Cloud (n=Cloud@deri-dmz2.nuigalway.ie) has joined #microformats
- [12:56:27] <jibot>
Cloud is http://www.johnbreslin.com/
- [12:57:59] <mfbot>
[[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=11701 * Tantek * (+190) added web directions north microformats talk
- [12:59:14] * Cloud_ (n=Cloud@deri-dmz2.nuigalway.ie) has joined #microformats
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- [13:10:59] * Cloud (n=Cloud@deri-wg1-2.nuigalway.ie) has joined #microformats
- [13:10:59] <jibot>
Cloud is http://www.johnbreslin.com/
- [13:11:10] <Cloud>
?herald
- [13:11:10] <jibot>
Stopped heralding
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- [13:43:02] <mfbot>
[[hcard-cheatsheet-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-cheatsheet-fr&diff=0&oldid=11702 * ChristopheDucamp * (+35)
- [13:43:24] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.169-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
- [13:44:03] <mfbot>
[[events-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events-fr&diff=0&oldid=11703 * ChristopheDucamp * (+189) A venir : -
- [13:44:19] <mfbot>
[[events-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events-fr&diff=0&oldid=11704 * ChristopheDucamp * (+2) A venir : -
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- [13:53:25] <mfbot>
[[User:Jax]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:Jax&diff=0&oldid=11705 * AndyMabbett * (-4) fix link
- [13:53:41] <mfbot>
[[User:Jax]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:Jax&diff=0&oldid=11706 * AndyMabbett * (-22) fix link
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- [14:58:25] <monkinetic>
KevinMarks: is there currently a way to search technorati for votelinks?
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- [16:02:02] <zeroseis>
What is the correct (or common sense) way of applying microformats icons, specially hcard download and hcard add? Should that be a link to a transformation script or the icon is just for visual identification?
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- [16:28:48] <tantek>
zeroseis - it is something still being figured out
- [16:28:55] <tantek>
are you a web designer?
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- [16:43:45] <julianstahnke>
I'm confused by that as well. All the hCard icons have 'actions' attached while others, for example the hCalendar, doesn't.
- [16:44:30] <ZeroSeis>
Hi, Tantek. I'm a web designer. I'm trying to apply the microformat icon in my blog.
- [16:45:27] <ZeroSeis>
I've made a test page: http://zeroseis.com.br/teste
- [16:45:55] <tantek>
zeroseis I think this is an area worthy of some design experimentation
- [16:46:19] <tantek>
try out what *you* think looks good in your opinion as a web designer
- [16:46:36] <tantek>
and link to it from the icons buttons page as an example and solicit feedback
- [16:47:37] <ZeroSeis>
OK! I'll do that. Thanks!
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- [16:59:08] <mfbot>
[[icons]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=icons&diff=0&oldid=11707 * Ronnos * (+227) General -
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- [17:03:20] <mfbot>
[[icons]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=icons&diff=0&oldid=11708 * ZeroSeis * (+97)
- [17:04:06] <mfbot>
[[icons]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=icons&diff=0&oldid=11709 * ZeroSeis * (-5)
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- [17:08:40] <kapowaz>
some sort of standardisation in those icons would be good
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- [17:08:53] <kapowaz>
it's interesting that people refer to them as 'microformats icons' when the microformats logo doesn't appear on them
- [17:08:59] <kapowaz>
I was wondering if that might not want changing too.
- [17:09:29] <kapowaz>
also, in this climate of resolution-independent display future, perhaps having them available as larger images (even in a vector format?) might be prudent.
- [17:09:37] * kapowaz returns to lurking duties
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- [17:11:21] <kapowaz>
actually, I note that the devkit does have vector formats
- [17:11:41] <KevinMarks>
I have the microformat logo in pumpkin format
- [17:11:57] <kapowaz>
that's just great.
- [17:12:01] * kapowaz grins
- [17:12:11] <kapowaz>
I said I was going to publish it as EPS and PSD like, 2 months ago
- [17:12:22] <kapowaz>
and never did. I should try and do that tonight, if the Wii doesn't get me first
- [17:13:51] <KevinMarks>
http://flickr.com/photos/kevinmarks/285384771/
- [17:14:17] <kapowaz>
ah yes, I have seen that ;)
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- [18:07:33] <mfbot>
[[xoxo-issues-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/xoxo-issues-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+578)
- [18:07:59] <mfbot>
[[xoxo-issues-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=11710 * ChristopheDucamp * (+2)
- [18:10:46] <mfbot>
[[xoxo-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo-fr&diff=0&oldid=11711 * ChristopheDucamp * (+51) Code échantillon -
- [18:12:37] <Ronnos>
hm, i really like the green microformat icons
- [18:12:51] <Ronnos>
but the orange hcal icon is also nice
- [18:13:09] <Ronnos>
orange / red :)
- [18:15:12] <mfbot>
[[xoxo-sample-code-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/xoxo-sample-code-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+65560) [fr: translation of xoxo-sample code / Unable to translate code... Could be translated in french ? help welcome]
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- [18:20:56] <Ronnos>
hm, it seems that green is the commonly use color for microformats on the internets. But i wonder if it's handy to use it for all the different Microformats.
- [18:21:18] <mfbot>
[[xoxo-profile-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/xoxo-profile-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+1351) fr : translation draft to be reviewed
- [18:21:44] <mfbot>
[[xoxo-profile-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo-profile-fr&diff=0&oldid=11712 * ChristopheDucamp * (-6)
- [18:22:35] <mfbot>
[[xoxo-profile-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo-profile-fr&diff=0&oldid=11713 * ChristopheDucamp * (+2) Profil -
- [18:30:51] <mfbot>
[[xoxo-brainstorming-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/xoxo-brainstorming-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+3398) fr : translation draft to be reviewed
- [18:34:22] <mfbot>
[[xoxo-brainstorming-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=11714 * ChristopheDucamp * (+145) Balisage Possible XOXO blogs+fils -
- [18:35:18] <mfbot>
[[xoxo-brainstorming-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=11715 * ChristopheDucamp * (+12)
- [18:37:19] <mfbot>
[[xoxo-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo-fr&diff=0&oldid=11716 * ChristopheDucamp * (+15) Références "Informative" - vote-links-fr
- [18:38:30] <mfbot>
[[xoxo-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo-fr&diff=0&oldid=11717 * ChristopheDucamp * (+8) Q&R - [[xoxo-faq-fr|xoxo-faq]]
- [18:40:22] <mfbot>
[[xoxo-faq-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo-faq-fr&diff=0&oldid=11718 * ChristopheDucamp * (+41) class="xoxo" -
- [18:41:43] <mfbot>
[[xoxo-faq-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo-faq-fr&diff=0&oldid=11719 * ChristopheDucamp * (+39) propriétés et valeurs xoxo -
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- [18:47:24] <mfbot>
[[xoxo-faq-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo-faq-fr&diff=0&oldid=11720 * ChristopheDucamp * (+167) autre syntaxe dans xoxo -
- [18:47:55] <mfbot>
[[xoxo-faq-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo-faq-fr&diff=0&oldid=11721 * ChristopheDucamp * (-2) autre syntaxe dans xoxo -
- [18:54:36] <mfbot>
[[xoxo-compact-sample-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/xoxo-compact-sample-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+3791) draft translation to be reviewed and tested
- [18:55:37] <mfbot>
[[xoxo-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo-fr&diff=0&oldid=11722 * ChristopheDucamp * (+4) Exemples "in the Wild" -
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- [19:00:44] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=11723 * Ronnos * (+51) Start a microformats wiki in another language -
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- [19:53:24] * kingryan is adding tags to the hcalendar creator
- [19:53:37] <kingryan>
what's the simplest way to say "give me tags separated by commas"?
- [19:55:56] <JMulder>
"Tag, tag, ..." ?
- [19:56:23] <JMulder>
That's simple to the point of being silly.
- [19:58:15] <Ronnos>
Seperate tags by commas?
- [19:58:41] <tantek>
space separated is the more common UI
- [19:58:43] <kingryan>
The best I have is "Tags (separated by commas):"
- [19:58:57] <tantek>
didn't Flickr already set precedent here in terms of UI?
- [19:59:03] <tantek>
let's reuse not reinvent
- [19:59:13] <kingryan>
reusing is more work here
- [19:59:20] <Ronnos>
lol
- [19:59:43] <tantek>
isn't confusing users with a UI inconsistent from what they're used to wrose?
- [19:59:45] <tantek>
worse even?
- [20:00:01] <kingryan>
who says our users are used to flickr?
- [20:00:04] <tantek>
delicious, upcoming, and technorati all also do space separated tag entry UI
- [20:00:07] <JMulder>
Or just accept both? :\
- [20:00:12] <tantek>
it's a convention
- [20:00:27] <Ronnos>
erhm, not written down?
- [20:00:57] <tantek>
well established across tagging sites' user interfaces
- [20:01:14] <JMulder>
And a poor convention at that, I've always thought.
- [20:01:41] <Ronnos>
i think it's better to use the forgiving format pattern
- [20:01:46] <tantek>
JMulder - the popularity of tagging is pretty much due to the UI, thus I don't know what you mean by "poor"
- [20:02:18] <JMulder>
I meant space seperated versus comma seperated. I've always felt space seperated was the poorer solution.
- [20:02:20] <tantek>
the simple algorithm is - space separated tags, unless there are commas in the string, in which case the commas separate the tags.
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- [20:02:44] <kingryan>
what about quotes?
- [20:02:47] <JMulder>
Yeah, accepting both is easy.
- [20:03:01] <tantek>
JMulder, and it's what Flickr and Technorati do for example
- [20:03:13] <kingryan>
no, flickr accepts quotes, too
- [20:03:25] <Ronnos>
hm
- [20:03:29] <tantek>
that's not a contradiction kingryan, so "no" no ;)
- [20:04:02] <julianstahnke>
what if someone wanted to enter a single tag 'a single tag'?
- [20:04:04] <tantek>
quotes nullify the separator aspect of spaces or commas in between the quotes
- [20:04:08] <julianstahnke>
there'd be no commas
- [20:04:14] <julianstahnke>
and no quotes
- [20:04:15] <kingryan>
no, there is a contradiction, because flickr's model is more complex than you've described
- [20:04:16] <JMulder>
tantek, yes, but I favour better solutions over commonly used solutions.
- [20:04:22] <KevinMarks>
Stewart said he wished he'd asked fro commas originally
- [20:04:47] <tantek>
JMulder, my point is that space separated may be somewhat responsible for the growth of tags
- [20:04:51] <tantek>
since it was a simpler UI
- [20:04:52] <KevinMarks>
but accepting all variants is doable, as they are clearly distinguishable
- [20:04:52] <tantek>
less typing
- [20:04:57] <tantek>
less work = more users do it
- [20:05:01] <JMulder>
I'm not entirely sure if I agree with that.
- [20:05:13] <JMulder>
But it's hard to come up with an answer now anyway. :p
- [20:06:08] <monkinetic>
KevinMarks: does technorati support votelinks, and if so, how?
- [20:06:15] <JMulder>
Comma seperated mimick the way we speak and write sentences more closely. On top of that, if you wish to actually have a tag with a space in it, you do not need to first learn that you need to enclose it in quotes. I've always found it to be way more intuitive than space seperated.
- [20:06:19] <KevinMarks>
we index them but don't surface them
- [20:06:31] <KevinMarks>
which is a bit of a shame
- [20:06:34] <JMulder>
It'd make for a hell of an interesting discussion though :)
- [20:06:39] <monkinetic>
KevinMarks: it is a shame
- [20:06:57] <monkinetic>
(esp with jeremy k. posting about them on 24ways yesterday)
- [20:07:28] <monkinetic>
i'm trying to hack a version of wordpress to send a votelink as part of a trackback
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- [20:14:46] <tantek>
JMulder, comma separated list of words is actually much less frequent (in terms of what we type) than a space separated set of words
- [20:15:27] <tantek>
people have much more efficient cognitive/muscle memory for typing a space separated set of words (as we are doing in this very dialog)
- [20:15:31] <tantek>
than commas
- [20:15:48] <kingryan>
but tags are all single words
- [20:16:19] <tantek>
the single wordization of tags has largely been learned
- [20:16:23] <kingryan>
every time I have to type_a_phrase_like_so or "with quotes" I get annoyed
- [20:16:29] <kingryan>
by whom?
- [20:16:35] <kingryan>
you?
- [20:16:39] <kingryan>
not me
- [20:16:41] <tantek>
by the users of those sites
- [20:16:44] <kingryan>
I get it wrong all the time
- [20:16:46] <tantek>
if you look at their aggregate tags
- [20:17:07] <monkinetic>
don't people tend to think of tags as lists of things, which area often written with commas
- [20:17:09] <monkinetic>
?
- [20:17:17] <monkinetic>
(or is it just me?)
- [20:17:46] <Ronnos>
hm, monkinetic has a point there
- [20:18:12] <tantek>
the thinking is actually less important than the speed of expressability
- [20:18:22] <tantek>
we're back to less work = more usage
- [20:18:23] <csarven>
JMulder speaks of 'writing', tantek speaks of 'typing' =)
- [20:18:36] <JMulder>
Indeed.
- [20:18:40] <KevinMarks>
tags aren't all single words
- [20:18:43] <tantek>
csarven, exactly. Web UIs are about *typing* behaviors
- [20:18:47] <tantek>
not "writing" behaviors
- [20:19:03] <Ronnos>
but the comma is one keypress, the " needs 2
- [20:19:07] <JMulder>
That entirely depends on who you're dealing with.
- [20:19:12] <KevinMarks>
even if tag services often fold them in
- [20:19:50] <KevinMarks>
overall this is a silly argument; you can make your UI support the comma and quote variants easily enough
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- [20:20:11] <JMulder>
Perhaps for us advanced users you're correct, but I would be surprised if space seperate proved to be a better solution than comma seperated for people unfamiliar with tags and the way to enter them.
- [20:20:14] <KevinMarks>
and dealing with varying user behaviour is an important UI principle
- [20:20:48] <csarven>
we can determine that to a certain extent that in writing we use commas. however, how can we determine whether, rather, we use commas or spaces for typing?
- [20:21:03] * kingryan only asked about how to explain his UI, not for ideas on changing it
- [20:21:17] <Ronnos>
haha, kingryan
- [20:21:18] <Ronnos>
:)
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- [20:21:48] <Ronnos>
i think an example would do best?
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- [20:22:07] <Ronnos>
you don't have unlimited space i see
- [20:22:10] <JMulder>
csarven, I'd just make a simple connection to a user's mental model. Tags is a collection of tags, where most often a tag is a noun. In any other situation, I know I personally wouldn't write it space seperated. :p
- [20:22:18] <csarven>
on a coversation 'onlin' while typing we certainly use commas
- [20:22:28] <JMulder>
*-of tags
- [20:23:00] <JMulder>
Is noun the proper english word? I always confuse it with adjective :|
- [20:23:15] <csarven>
but if the information is to be stored im not sure what people use
- [20:24:38] <JMulder>
It'd be an interesting experiment.
- [20:35:20] <tantek>
JMulder, in practice, tags are both nouns and adjectives
- [20:36:35] <JMulder>
True.
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- [21:42:25] <mfbot>
[[rest]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest&diff=0&oldid=11724 * DrErnie * (+41) Discussion Forums -
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- [23:20:29] <jibot>
bewest is Ben West and lives in San Francisco, CA. He daydreams about web style software, works at Alexa.com and blogs at http://bewest.wordpress.com/
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- [23:36:01] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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