IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-01-04
Timestamps are in UTC.
- [00:03:42] * hober joins in the nodding
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- [00:18:17] <Tyler>
So strange that domain.tld is still stuck on the Gandi redirect.
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- [00:20:52] <mfbot>
[[xfolk-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk-issues&diff=0&oldid=12105 * Tantek * (+149) moved open question from FAQ to issues
- [00:21:38] <mfbot>
[[xfolk-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk-faq&diff=0&oldid=12106 * Tantek * (+181) restore content that was inadvertently removed with most recent revert which was attempting to only revert most recent change
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- [00:23:14] <Tyler>
tantek: That's a whole lot of reverting. :)
- [00:24:01] <tantek>
doing my best to keep things precise and accurate and relevant
- [00:25:40] <Tyler>
Quite understandable. :)
- [00:27:28] <Tyler>
tantek: Are you going to be at the RailsConf this year in Portland, OR?
- [00:28:26] <tantek>
Tyler, are there microformats topics on the agenda? If so, please add them to the events page: http://microformats.org/wiki/events
- [00:28:44] <Tyler>
Sure thing. I'll go take a look.
- [00:29:54] <Tyler>
Doesn't look like they've released the schedule yet.
- [00:30:59] <Tyler>
Their last news update was October 22nd. Hehe
- [00:42:26] <tantek>
Hmmm... that's not a good sign.
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- [00:55:45] <mkaply>
can someone out there please tell me what they think of this code in an hCard from upcoming.org?
- [00:55:46] <mkaply>
<div class="url">
- [00:55:46] <mkaply>
<div class="small">Homepage</div> <a href="http://blog.coworking.info">http://blog.coworking.info</a>
- [00:55:46] <mkaply>
</div>
- [00:58:46] <mfbot>
[[to-do]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=12107 * Dmitry Baranovskiy * (+95) help implementers -
- [00:58:54] <hober>
the class="url" should be on the <a/>, yes?
- [01:01:32] <mkaply>
yep. And if it's not going to be on the URL, then they can't have other text inside the DIV
- [01:01:38] <mkaply>
becaues there is no way to get the URL
- [01:01:38] <tantek>
Well it is now past 5pm PST.
- [01:01:48] <tantek>
performing my admin duties...
- [01:01:59] <tantek>
:(
- [01:02:18] <mkaply>
upcoming.org has really screwed up their microformats. Do we know someone who can fix it?
- [01:02:22] <mfbot>
[[Template:hcalendar-related-pages]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:hcalendar-related-pages&diff=0&oldid=12108 * Dmitry Baranovskiy * (+208)
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- [01:04:15] <jibot>
julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
- [01:04:22] * briansuda (n=briansud@dsl-219-147.hive.is) Quit ()
- [01:06:38] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-schedule-creator-feedback]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-schedule-creator-feedback * Dmitry Baranovskiy * (+1014) Conference Schedule Creator Feedback
- [01:07:41] <tantek>
Hmm... Dmitry - could you put the conference schedule creator in hcalendar-implementations instead of related pages? it's really not high-level enough to deserve being in related pages
- [01:07:53] <tantek>
and then add the feedback inline on the entry for it in hcalendar-implementations
- [01:08:08] <tantek>
it's not really deserving of its own wiki page yet
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- [01:17:30] <tantek>
Andy Mabbett <andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk> is now moderated (not banned) on microformats lists. This means that his posts MUST be approved by one of the list admins before going to the list. If he successfully sends only topical / positive / improving email to the lists for one week (i.e. no emails that moderators have to bounce or drop) then moderation may be lifted.
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- [01:33:08] <mkaply>
briansuda: just the person I needed
- [01:33:17] <briansuda>
yes
- [01:33:32] <mkaply>
not sure if you saw my earlier comment - upcoming.org codes their URLs like this:
- [01:33:47] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
- [01:33:51] <mkaply>
<div class="url">
- [01:33:51] <mkaply>
<div class="small">Homepage</div> <a href="http://blog.coworking.info">http://blog.coworking.info</a>
- [01:33:51] <mkaply>
</div>
- [01:33:59] <mkaply>
that's totally wrong, right?
- [01:35:12] <briansuda>
yes,
- [01:35:28] <briansuda>
the value of URL would be "homepage http://blog.c....
- [01:36:13] <mkaply>
ok. So I'm parsing it right. Just wanted to make sure. For being a Yahoo property, upcoming sure has quite a few microformat issues
- [01:36:55] <briansuda>
they were very eary adopter, so not everything is as clean as possible
- [01:38:36] <mkaply>
briansuda: I guess I'll continue to harass their development team on their yahoo group.
- [01:38:52] <mkaply>
The sad part is that when I reported microformat problems to eventful, they had them fixed within a few hours
- [01:38:59] <briansuda>
if you have spefic issues i can try to pass them on too
- [01:39:00] <mkaply>
I reported some of these to upcoming weeks ago
- [01:39:14] <briansuda>
i think the dev teams are two very different sizes
- [01:39:36] <mkaply>
http://community.upcoming.org/w/index.php/Bug_Reports#Fresh_Bugs
- [01:39:44] <mkaply>
the 12/31/2006 bugs are my bugs so far
- [01:41:35] <mfbot>
[[xfolk-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk-issues&diff=0&oldid=12109 * Bud * (+778) Issues -
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- [01:47:05] <Tyler>
Evening all, back from work. :)
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- [01:58:26] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-implementations&diff=0&oldid=12110 * Tantek * (+447) added web-based creators section and moved conference creator here
- [01:59:02] <mfbot>
[[Template:hcalendar-related-pages]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:hcalendar-related-pages&diff=0&oldid=12111 * Tantek * (-200) move conference creator to hcalendar-implementations
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- [03:29:19] <pnhChris>
spot check... <a class="url fn" href="http://placenamehere.com">Chris Casciano</a> is legit for hcard data, right?
- [03:29:43] <tantek>
it needs to be inside a <span class="vcard"> or something similar
- [03:31:01] <pnhChris>
right
- [03:31:10] <pnhChris>
but inside of the container (like <address class="vcard author reviewer">)
- [03:32:32] <pnhChris>
.. it should fit both url and n/fn optimization, right
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- [03:33:27] <pnhChris>
[just looking for confirmation before talking to mkaply about a 'bug']
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- [04:18:31] <tantek>
pnhChris, right
- [04:19:41] <tantek>
my blogroll has lots of class="url fn" examples: http://tantek.com/
- [04:19:43] <tantek>
dinner time
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- [04:53:36] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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- [05:03:33] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
- [05:10:30] <mfbot>
[[recipe-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12112 * AlexanderShusta * (+97) Suggested fields for inclusion -
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- [05:43:47] <mfbot>
[[hreview-implementations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-implementations&diff=0&oldid=12113 * JRodenburg * (+142) New Implementations -
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- [06:10:34] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [06:10:34] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [06:12:02] <Tyler>
Hey welcome back tantek.
- [06:12:11] <tantek>
hello Tyler
- [06:13:12] <Tyler>
How's the evening winding down?
- [06:15:45] <tantek>
well i would like to solve an actual practical problem today
- [06:15:51] <Tyler>
Oh yeah? What's that?
- [06:16:03] <tantek>
since pretty much all my time on microformats so far today was wasted on meta-discussion issues
- [06:16:14] <tantek>
let's take a seemingly simple problem for example
- [06:16:21] <Tyler>
Ah yeah, I remember seeing all those edits to the Wiki.
- [06:16:32] <Tyler>
Sure! Let's hear it.
- [06:16:34] <tantek>
that of a mini-hCard (perhaps only name and URL) pointing to a more complete version
- [06:17:42] <Tyler>
Ah, so like a name that you'd find in a blog articles "author" line, or like a news story on a site?
- [06:18:55] <tantek>
right
- [06:18:59] <tantek>
or from a blogroll
- [06:19:09] <tantek>
here is the summary of the issue to date: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-brainstorming#Auto-Discovery
- [06:20:01] <Tyler>
I'll take a gander right now.
- [06:21:33] <Tyler>
A simple enough end-result, but the way to get to the solution is definitely up for debate. :)
- [06:21:39] <tantek>
sort of
- [06:22:06] <Tyler>
What's your take on it?
- [06:23:12] <Tyler>
Hmm, Bj?rn hasn't heard back from the Working Group?
- [06:23:24] <tantek>
well i'm not sure that a rel value is even necessary
- [06:23:31] <tantek>
we had a discussion a while ago about UID+URL
- [06:23:33] <tantek>
that is
- [06:23:54] <tantek>
is it possible to simply have class="url uid" on the <a href> to the more definitive/expanded hCard
- [06:24:24] <tantek>
and then infer from the fact that link is *both* a URL for the hCard and *the* UID for the hCard, that at that link is definitive version of the hCard itself
- [06:24:34] <Tyler>
I definitely see the use of having it in the anchor tag.
- [06:25:46] <Tyler>
Yeah, hmm... I don't suppose the rev attribute would be of any use here?
- [06:27:34] <tantek>
no, the 'rev' attribute in general is not of much use
- [06:27:44] <tantek>
because almost everybody gets it wrong
- [06:27:50] <Tyler>
Ah okay. I haven't really looked into rev all that much.
- [06:28:45] <Tyler>
Keeping everything in a class would be nice.
- [06:29:56] <Tyler>
I'm guessing with a bit of JS, one could extract the needed info from that attribute.
- [06:30:55] <tantek>
sure - the implementation is not the issue
- [06:31:06] <Tyler>
I really need to read up on all this stuff, I'm very new to MF. :)
- [06:31:09] <mfbot>
[[rel-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-faq&diff=0&oldid=12114 * Tantek * (+436) Added "Should 'rev' even be used" - in short, no. votelinks is grandfathered.
- [06:32:38] <tantek>
Tyler - there's lots of good material in the intro pages: presentations, podcasts, etc.
- [06:33:02] <Tyler>
Though I definitely would like to implement as many relevent ones into my upcoming ezine.
- [06:33:13] <Tyler>
Great! I have a couple hours tonight I'll dedicate to that.
- [06:33:15] <mfbot>
[[vote-links]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vote-links&diff=0&oldid=12115 * Tantek * (+1) minor link fixup
- [06:33:29] <Tyler>
I don't suppose there's an upcoming hRecipe eh? :)
- [06:33:37] <tantek>
http://microformats.org/wiki/podcasts
- [06:33:43] <Tyler>
Excellent, thank you tantek.
- [06:33:50] <tantek>
http://microformats.org/wiki/presentations
- [06:34:11] <mfbot>
[[votelinks-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=votelinks-issues&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+906) votelinks-issues moved to vote-links-issues
- [06:34:27] <mfbot>
[[vote-links-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vote-links-issues&diff=0&oldid=12116 * Tantek * (+1)
- [06:34:38] <mfbot>
[[vote-links]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vote-links&diff=0&oldid=12117 * Tantek * (+1)
- [06:36:13] <Tyler>
Hah, where can I get one of those awesome shirts? :)
- [06:36:20] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
- [06:38:13] <tantek>
Tyler - see http://microformats.org/wiki/spread-microformats
- [06:38:23] <Tyler>
Excellent. :)
- [06:40:25] <Tyler>
Would you consider recipes to be subset of XOXO?
- [06:40:37] <tantek>
not necessarily
- [06:40:46] <tantek>
see http://microformats.org/wiki/recipe-examples
- [06:41:06] <Tyler>
Goodness... okay, I really do need to explore the Wiki before asking questions, sorry. :)
- [06:42:16] <Tyler>
Basically I'm interested in starting up an online cooking magazine and think MF would be the perfect way to organize and classify all the content on the site.
- [06:43:54] <Tyler>
Interesting!
- [06:51:04] <tantek>
wow that would be very cool
- [06:51:23] <tantek>
start with adding support for existing microformats to your site and see how far you can get with that
- [06:51:39] <tantek>
e.g. markup instances of people and organizations with hCard, events with hCalendar etc.
- [06:52:20] <mfbot>
[[hcard-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12118 * Tantek * (+996) edited Autodiscovery section, use text/directory, cleaned up and clarified current rel proposals, and added rel="expanded"
- [06:54:27] <Tyler>
Exactly tantek.
- [06:56:12] <Tyler>
VoteLinks for the recipes/stories/articles.
- [06:56:28] <Tyler>
XFN to link the site users together, etc.
- [06:57:41] <Tyler>
Would a modified hResume be suitable for user profiles?
- [06:58:28] <Tyler>
Ah yes, and xFolk for sharing site and non-site recipes, etc.
- [07:01:45] <tantek>
user profiles are sufficiently represented with an hCard
- [07:01:56] <Tyler>
Perfect!
- [07:01:59] <tantek>
take a look at what http://corkd.com/ has done, since that is in a similar genre
- [07:02:05] <Tyler>
Excellent, will do!
- [07:02:07] <tantek>
about food/drink
- [07:02:10] <tantek>
with user profiles
- [07:02:26] <tantek>
maybe hReview fo reviewing recipes
- [07:02:37] <Tyler>
definitely
- [07:02:41] <mfbot>
[[hcard-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12119 * Tantek * (+1276) added more subsections, example in the wild
- [07:02:52] <tantek>
and now I must depart for the cafe is closing
- [07:02:53] <Tyler>
And an upcoming hRecipe for the actual goods. ;)
- [07:03:00] <Tyler>
Ah okay, have a good night tantek!
- [07:03:05] <tantek>
yes - but first start with existing microformats to see how far you get
- [07:03:06] <Tyler>
We can talk more tomorrow.
- [07:03:09] * Tyler nods.
- [07:03:11] <Tyler>
Definitely.
- [07:03:17] <tantek>
and then help with developing the recipe microformat per the process
- [07:03:23] <Tyler>
Sounds good to me!
- [07:03:30] <Tyler>
Have a great night!
- [07:03:30] <tantek>
ttyl
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- [07:04:50] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
- [07:05:15] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl001-150-252.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
- [07:09:11] <Tyler>
Hi there bergie.
- [07:09:52] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) has joined #microformats
- [07:09:58] <Tyler>
Hi Prometheus^.
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- [07:34:02] <Prometheus^>
Ahoy
- [07:37:59] <Tyler>
How's it going?
- [07:44:31] <Prometheus^>
not too bad, just got to work, swamped with it :/
- [07:44:32] <Prometheus^>
you?
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- [07:45:58] <Tyler>
Oh ouch! Sorry to hear that. It's nearly midnight here and I'm in inspiration mood. :)
- [07:46:19] <Tyler>
Hey there mrkris, welcome to the room. :)
- [07:46:26] <mrkris>
thnx
- [07:46:40] <Tyler>
It's a bit quiet tonight, but there are a few of us in here. :
- [07:47:11] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
- [07:47:11] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [07:47:11] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [07:47:25] <Tyler>
Hah, hey welcome back tantek!
- [07:47:46] <Prometheus^>
Tyler: good stuff :) I shouldn't type in here, because as it happens my boss is in here and he might think I'm not working at all ;)
- [07:48:10] <Tyler>
Ah well then, best look busy!
- [07:48:12] <tantek>
FYI Prometheus, this channel is logged :)
- [07:48:22] <Tyler>
We can discuss business, of course.
- [07:48:24] <Tyler>
;)
- [07:49:03] <Prometheus^>
tantek: that's fine, I'm sure he doesn't mind a little bit of constructive/friendly chatter in between work :)
- [07:49:10] <Tyler>
Ah good good.
- [07:49:56] <Tyler>
Well tantek, now I've gotten all inspired and found myself searching for a domain to brand my conception with. :)
- [07:50:34] <Tyler>
Prometheus^: What sort of work do you do?
- [07:51:37] <Prometheus^>
Tyler: I work for an open source CMS consultancy, www.nemein.com
- [07:51:54] <Prometheus^>
we are very fond of microformats, so to speak
- [07:52:08] <Tyler>
Very cool. :)
- [07:52:39] <Tyler>
I work for a company that laps at the feet of MS. lol
- [07:52:56] <mrkris>
I own my own company
- [07:53:20] <Tyler>
Actually we're a rather successful consulting company.
- [07:53:23] <Prometheus^>
Tyler: many people do, but we are quite the opposite :)
- [07:53:26] <Tyler>
http://ascentium.com
- [07:53:53] <Tyler>
Prometheus^: All the more reason to enjoy your presence. :D
- [07:56:23] <Tyler>
Not many of your type where I work/live.
- [07:56:35] <Tyler>
I'm about 4 miles from MS's main campus.
- [07:57:12] <Tyler>
I feel like I'm living in these new Mac commercials with the "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC."
- [07:57:25] <Tyler>
Except there is no Mac guy. :\
- [07:58:53] * izo (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
- [08:01:56] <Tyler>
Hi izo.
- [08:02:07] <izo>
hi
- [08:02:49] <mfbot>
[[User:Tyler]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:Tyler * Tyler * (+265) Creating my user info.
- [08:04:00] <mfbot>
[[User:Tyler]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:Tyler&diff=0&oldid=12120 * Tyler * (+29) Finishing user info after hitting 'Save page' a bit too soon.
- [08:04:19] <Tyler>
:)
- [08:04:52] <Tyler>
How are things going izo?
- [08:05:34] <izo>
fine and you ? :p
- [08:07:03] <Tyler>
Quite well! Just discovered MF yesterday and already a huge fan.
- [08:07:36] <mfbot>
[[irc-people]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=12121 * Tyler * (+48) Added Tyler Roehmholdt to IRC users list.
- [08:08:02] <Tyler>
?def
- [08:08:03] <jibot>
Braindump available at: http://an9.org/~jibot
- [08:10:00] <Tyler>
tantek: ?def <my intro statement>... that is saved then after I exit?
- [08:11:31] <tantek>
yes. I believe you can also /msg jibot ?help
- [08:11:39] <Tyler>
Great thanks.
- [08:15:00] <Tyler>
?learn Tyler is a web developer with Ascentium Corporation and is secretly developing the next big online magazine.
- [08:15:01] <jibot>
Tyler is a web developer with Ascentium Corporation and is secretly developing the next big online magazine.
- [08:15:40] <Tyler>
Excellent, now a simple ?def Tyler on join will do the trick?
- [08:16:49] <Tyler>
I suppose I'll give it a go. I'll be right back. :)
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- [08:20:54] <Tyler>
Hmm...
- [08:21:14] <Tyler>
'?def' doesn't seem to be saving my info.
- [08:25:31] <tantek>
?def Tyler
- [08:25:31] <jibot>
Tyler is a web developer with Ascentium Corporation and is secretly developing the next big online magazine.
- [08:25:37] <Tyler>
Hmm
- [08:26:03] <Tyler>
I threw that into my "on join" commands list and nadda.
- [08:27:00] <Tyler>
Oh well, not that big of a deal. :)
- [08:27:24] * mrkris (n=mrkris@c-67-168-151-185.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit ()
- [08:34:39] <Tyler>
Anyway, I'm off to bed, have a great night everyone!
- [08:34:57] * Tyler (n=tyler@unaffiliated/tyler) Quit (Client Quit)
- [08:55:39] <izo>
pfff it's morning :) (for me)
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- [09:37:40] <jibot>
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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- [10:11:29] <jibot>
bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
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- [10:30:24] <jibot>
Cloud is http://www.johnbreslin.com/
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- [10:51:41] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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- [11:33:46] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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- [12:36:19] <mfbot>
[[User:NTollervey]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:NTollervey&diff=0&oldid=12122 * NTollervey * (+28)
- [12:36:40] <mfbot>
[[User:NTollervey]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:NTollervey&diff=0&oldid=12123 * NTollervey * (-3)
- [12:39:16] <mfbot>
[[irc-people]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=12124 * NTollervey * (+47)
- [12:40:37] <mfbot>
[[irc-people]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=12125 * NTollervey * (-5)
- [12:41:03] <mfbot>
[[irc-people]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=12126 * NTollervey * (+0)
- [12:46:54] <mfbot>
[[job-listing-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=job-listing-examples&diff=0&oldid=12127 * NTollervey * (+737) Added 37 signals and JobServe
- [12:48:05] <mfbot>
[[rel-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-faq&diff=0&oldid=12128 * SteveIvy * (+57) Should 'rev' even be used - Add cite to Google Authoring Study
- [12:48:46] <mfbot>
[[job-listing-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=job-listing-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12129 * NTollervey * (-13)
- [12:51:30] <ntoll>
hi, what is the process for changing a proposed microformat's name? I'm interested in helping develop the Job-listing mfmt but I agree with Andy Mabbett that it should be re-named to Vacancy (hVacancy?). Can't seem to find anything about this sort of process on the wiki... Any suggestions?
- [12:51:31] <redmonk>
ogg to work
- [12:51:35] <redmonk>
off even
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- [13:49:39] <mfbot>
[[hresume-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-issues&diff=0&oldid=12130 * NTollervey * (+633) Issues -
- [13:55:07] <monkinetic>
tantek: question re: rev
- [13:55:52] <monkinetic>
if rev is deprecated, and votelink came up today, what would you recommende using?
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- [14:29:02] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
- [14:47:02] * peace-keeper (n=peace-ke@APuteaux-153-1-65-164.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #microformats
- [14:47:46] <peace-keeper>
hi, got a noob question: how do microformats relate to the semantic web? is there an automatic "mapping" process for producing RDF from a microformatted webpage?
- [14:48:27] <Prometheus^>
oh dear
- [14:48:32] <Prometheus^>
:)
- [14:48:48] * monkinetic ducks
- [14:50:11] <peace-keeper>
lol
- [14:53:01] <bengee>
several people are working on mappings and transformations already, although implementing mf's various disambiguation exceptions can get complicated
- [14:56:43] <bengee>
s/can get/is/
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- [15:12:25] <jibot>
SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
- [15:29:14] <mfbot>
[[User:ScottWallick]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:ScottWallick * ScottWallick * (+733) Basic information on Scott
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- [15:35:19] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
- [15:39:35] <mfbot>
[[User:ScottWallick]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:ScottWallick&diff=0&oldid=12131 * ScottWallick * (+75)
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- [15:43:03] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
- [15:48:11] <mfbot>
[[course-catalog-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=course-catalog-examples&diff=0&oldid=12132 * JesseRodgers * (+763) Course Catalog -
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- [16:01:47] <monkinetic>
tantek: ping
- [16:01:54] <monkinetic>
did yous ee my q. earlier?
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- [16:28:58] <pnhChris>
mkaply: RE: fn optimization being not implemented... that'll do it =)
- [16:30:12] <mkaply>
pnhChris: yeah. I can't believe I put it off. Took five minutes
- [16:30:20] <mkaply>
doh
- [16:32:10] <pnhChris>
any idea on the org issue? that just a todo item as well?
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- [16:34:51] <mkaply>
pnhChris: I think that should be fixed as well. I wasn't handling the fn/org well at all.
- [16:35:06] <mkaply>
pnhChris: I now follow the optimization to the letter (working on nickname now)
- [16:39:41] <tantek>
ntoll, the name of a proposed microformat is perhaps one of the last things one should be worried about - see http://microformats.org/wiki/naming-principles for more on this
- [16:40:36] <tantek>
monkinetic, if the idea of a microformat to represent votes came up today, it would have to follow the process first, which is to gather examples of actual usage on web pages of "vote" semantics etc.
- [16:41:10] <ntoll>
tantek, I agree. It was simply the first thing that came to mind when looking through the information on the wiki.
- [16:41:14] <tantek>
before any decision about how to represent it in markup came up
- [16:41:20] <tantek>
ntoll - yes that's the problem
- [16:41:27] <tantek>
naming should NOT be the first thing that comes to mind
- [16:41:33] <tantek>
it is perhaps the least important aspect
- [16:41:39] <tantek>
from a data integrity perspective
- [16:41:51] <tantek>
and yet traditionally people obsess way too much about names
- [16:42:01] <tantek>
which is why it is postponed to pretty much last in the process
- [16:42:13] <tantek>
to avoid wasting time on it instead of other more important aspects
- [16:42:46] <monkinetic>
tantek: well, I don't see vote-links having particularly widespead penetration at this point - is it worth going through the process? and, btw, is the prcess documented on the wiki somewhere?
- [16:43:00] <tantek>
http://microformats.org/wiki/process :D
- [16:43:05] <ntoll>
tantek, I agree 100%, but sometimes the temptation is just too much :)
- [16:43:22] <tantek>
ntoll - true, we must all do what we can to break old habits and temptations ;)
- [16:44:03] <ntoll>
Well, this being the new year... I have a further question about job-listing uFormat with regard to hResume:
- [16:44:10] <tantek>
monkinetic, you're right that vote-links hasn't taken off like many other microformats have. Though SteveIvy has produced a rather nice recent implementation.
- [16:44:32] <tantek>
also - it would be interesting to do the research anyway
- [16:44:34] <monkinetic>
monkinetic == SteveIvy
- [16:44:36] <monkinetic>
:-)
- [16:44:46] <tantek>
ah handles
- [16:44:58] <pnhChris>
i still need to take some time and gather my thoughts RE: reusing elements of hresume
- [16:45:02] <ntoll>
Put crudely, the standard (funnel) recruitment process is finding the best match between a vacancy's requirements (e.g. required skills, experience and education level) and what your candidate's have to offer (or vice-versa if using the reverse funnel process).
- [16:45:03] <tantek>
and see what the process produced
- [16:45:35] <tantek>
ntoll - sounds like good information to add to the problem description
- [16:45:48] <ntoll>
hResume includes sections for skills, education and experience but doesn't include means of describing levels of attainment. This is a shame as it would be an *insanely useful* feature to be able to marry hResume and a Vacancy uFormat so they complement each other with these items of information.
- [16:48:09] <mfbot>
[[microformats-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=microformats-issues&diff=0&oldid=12133 * DrErnie * (+1077) Issues - Governance
- [16:48:43] <monkinetic>
$def
- [16:48:46] <monkinetic>
oops
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- [16:49:41] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
- [16:50:50] <monkinetic>
ntoll: Vacancy to me says "apartment for rent", not "job opening"
- [16:52:05] <ntoll>
monkinetic, hmmm... well, I'm in the UK, maybe this is a case of two nations separated by the same language? :-)
- [16:52:17] <monkinetic>
perhaps
- [16:52:27] <tantek>
indeed - I tend to agree with monkinetic
- [16:52:49] <tantek>
note: http://flickr.com/photos/tags/vacancy
- [16:53:00] <tantek>
signs that indicate available rooms dominate
- [16:53:02] <monkinetic>
?learn monkinetic is redmonk is SteveIvy is Steve Ivy - http://redmonk.net
- [16:53:03] <jibot>
monkinetic is redmonk/Steve Ivy and can be found at http://redmonk.net and redmonk is SteveIvy is Steve Ivy - http://redmonk.net
- [16:53:17] <ntoll>
well, as you mentioned, its the least important thing to worry about.
- [16:53:22] <tantek>
yes
- [16:53:25] <monkinetic>
oh shoot
- [16:53:31] <monkinetic>
?forgetme
- [16:53:31] <jibot>
I have expunged monkinetic from my mind
- [16:53:43] <monkinetic>
?learn monkinetic is redmonk is SteveIvy is Steve Ivy - http://redmonk.net
- [16:53:43] <jibot>
monkinetic is redmonk is SteveIvy is Steve Ivy - http://redmonk.net
- [16:53:50] <tantek>
however you are welcome to add the information / suggestions to a section on the appropriate *-brainstorming page
- [16:54:01] <tantek>
so that we can put aside discussion for now
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- [16:54:55] <ntoll>
brb
- [16:55:28] <monkinetic>
tantek / KevinMarks: should we open vote-links back up for discussion per http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-faq#Should_.27rev.27_even_be_used ?
- [16:56:17] <tantek>
monkinetic - I think you can pursue research into voting without having to address the question of reopening vote-links per se.
- [16:56:24] <tantek>
start with voting-examples per the process
- [16:56:35] * monkinetic nods
- [16:56:36] <tantek>
and document existing sites that have voting mechanisms
- [16:56:40] <tantek>
e.g. Digg
- [16:56:46] <tantek>
Urban Dictionary
- [16:56:47] <tantek>
etc.
- [16:56:55] <tantek>
and perhaps even instances on blogs
- [16:57:14] <tantek>
how do bloggers reference / cite / link things that they agree with or disagree with (or are neutral)?
- [16:57:21] <tantek>
what markup and/or prose do they use?
- [16:57:32] <tantek>
is there sufficient visible information there to be marked up?
- [16:57:55] <tantek>
with more data we can make a better decision of what to do vis-a-vis vote-links
- [17:00:08] <monkinetic>
ok
- [17:00:11] <monkinetic>
thanks
- [17:00:31] <ntoll>
with regard to "skill" for example, the current rel-tag would have to be "expanded" to enable the inclusion of some sort of skill "level" or length of experience. Hmmm... I assume I just write these ideas up on the wiki under the brainstorming page?
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- [17:09:15] <jibot>
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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- [17:18:26] <monkinetic>
how does the "see also" section at the beginning of a wiki page differ from "references", "related work" and "faq" links at the bottom?
- [17:20:20] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
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- [17:35:10] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
- [17:41:03] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
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- [17:46:43] * Tyler_ (n=tyler@unaffiliated/tyler) Quit (Client Quit)
- [17:46:54] * Tyler (n=tyler@unaffiliated/tyler) has joined #microformats
- [17:46:54] <jibot>
Tyler is a web developer with Ascentium Corporation and is secretly developing the next big online magazine.
- [17:47:35] <Tyler>
Morning all!
- [17:51:03] <monkinetic>
hi Tyler
- [17:51:37] <Tyler>
Hey there monkinetic! How's the morning going?
- [17:51:43] <monkinetic>
almost gone here
- [17:51:51] <monkinetic>
nbot baddish
- [17:52:03] <Tyler>
Ah nice, done for the day?
- [17:52:14] <monkinetic>
writing voting-examples and fearful that i'm going to embarass myself for posterity on the wiki
- [17:52:31] <monkinetic>
no, just the morning is almost gone
- [17:52:53] * bear_afk is now known as bear
- [17:55:52] <monkinetic>
KevinMarks: ping
- [17:55:58] <Tyler>
Pff! I'm sure it's fine. I'm very much interested in the voting system.
- [17:56:11] <Tyler>
I'm looking to implement such system in my upcoming eZine.
- [17:56:44] <monkinetic>
well, i'm a frustrated perfectionist - impatient as hell as just angsty that I'm going to do it wrong
- [17:58:02] <Tyler>
Ah, hehe. I'm a semantic and standards fool who can never seem to get any of my clients to agree that pages need to be semantic for more meaningful search and navigation results.
- [17:59:15] * iand (n=iand@89.192.41.140) has joined #microformats
- [17:59:16] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
- [17:59:23] <mfbot>
[[currency-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-issues&diff=0&oldid=12134 * Emil * (+358) Alternative 3 with built-in scale
- [18:01:21] <Tyler>
Hi iand.
- [18:02:59] <mfbot>
[[voting-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/voting-examples * SteveIvy * (+2445) Start documenting examples of voting in general use online
- [18:07:09] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [18:07:09] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [18:07:09] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [18:09:41] * ntoll (n=ntoll@81-178-214-240.dsl.pipex.com) Quit ("Leaving")
- [18:13:06] <monkinetic>
tantek: would you mind reviewing voting-examples? it's short, but it's a start
- [18:16:49] <Tyler>
Hey there tantek!
- [18:19:14] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [18:19:35] <tantek>
that was fast
- [18:20:12] <monkinetic>
tantek: i'm impatient (it's a weakness)
- [18:20:48] <tantek>
i'm a bit busy today for a few hours so I'd recommend starting by asking microformats-discuss to review
- [18:20:57] <monkinetic>
sure nuf
- [18:21:12] <bewest>
is this for a starbar-like thing a la netflix?
- [18:21:13] <Tyler>
monkinetic: Another voting example would be jpgmag.com
- [18:21:37] <Tyler>
http://www.jpgmag.com/photos/40196
- [18:21:41] <Tyler>
There's an example.
- [18:23:15] * Ronnos (n=chatzill@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #microformats
- [18:23:15] <jibot>
Ronnos is Ron Kok, a friendly student Communication and Multimedia Design in The Netherlands
- [18:24:07] <bewest>
ah interesting
- [18:24:09] <Tyler>
Hi there Ronnos.
- [18:24:13] <Tyler>
And bewest.
- [18:24:35] <Ronnos>
Hi Tyler
- [18:24:40] <bewest>
Jakob Nielsen wrote in one of his usability books that he believed a kind of credential registry for the web would crop up
- [18:25:05] <bewest>
and that registry-aware applications could then aide the user in avoiding spam and such
- [18:25:28] <bewest>
this voting thing would enable a distributed version of that concept, yes?
- [18:25:39] <bewest>
hi Tyler
- [18:26:36] <Tyler>
Basically to give someone credentials?
- [18:26:56] <bewest>
erm, not credentials in the sense of authentication
- [18:27:05] <bewest>
merely in the sense that a given site is not spam
- [18:27:20] <Tyler>
Ah right.
- [18:27:21] <Ronnos>
as in junk or not-junk
- [18:27:24] <bewest>
more like a respect-ometer
- [18:27:27] * Tyler nods.
- [18:27:32] <Tyler>
Makes good sense.
- [18:29:40] <bewest>
maybe/maybe not :-)
- [18:29:59] <Ronnos>
because?
- [18:30:13] <Tyler>
I'm going to be implementing a good number of MFs into this eZine I'm in the exploratory phases of.
- [18:30:40] * iand (n=iand@89.192.41.140) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [18:30:44] <Ronnos>
nice
- [18:31:14] <Tyler>
Yeah, I'd like to utilized the voting and hReview for sure.
- [18:31:42] <Ronnos>
what's the eZine about?
- [18:32:33] <Ronnos>
or is it eZine in the sense of online magazine about internet?
- [18:32:40] <Tyler>
It's going to be a user-powered cooking/food mag.
- [18:33:02] <Tyler>
Basically users will submit their recipes and food-related stories/articles.
- [18:33:16] <Ronnos>
damn, had the same idea, well, 4 months ago!
- [18:33:18] <Ronnos>
:)
- [18:33:25] <Ronnos>
only the mag was a website :P
- [18:33:44] <Tyler>
I'd also like to have a photo section where people submit pictures of their dishes and such.
- [18:33:48] <Ronnos>
but... not enough free time :P
- [18:34:08] <Tyler>
Hehe, this would be a website, though the issues would be distributed as PDF.
- [18:34:13] <Tyler>
And an online version.
- [18:34:22] <Ronnos>
aha
- [18:34:26] <Ronnos>
mixing things up, great
- [18:34:28] <Ronnos>
:)
- [18:35:10] <Tyler>
After submitting, recipes/stories/photos go into a sandbox type environment, where users get a month to try out the recipes and rate them.
- [18:35:14] <Ronnos>
i think there's a big audience for that kind of things
- [18:35:37] * bengee (n=bengee@82.207.128.166) Quit ("Leaving")
- [18:35:49] <Tyler>
The highest rated ones get put into the magazine, along with the best photos and stories.
- [18:35:49] <Ronnos>
and, it's always nice to see some MF magic in action ;)
- [18:35:54] <Tyler>
Oh definitely!
- [18:36:16] <Ronnos>
aha, maybe an idea to markup users with hcard
- [18:36:26] <bewest>
iirc Christina Wodtke or Tidwell has something like that
- [18:36:31] <bewest>
one of them
- [18:36:33] <bewest>
I can't remember
- [18:36:41] <Ronnos>
and present them as such
- [18:36:44] <bewest>
wrote a book on IA
- [18:36:50] <Ronnos>
ehm
- [18:36:54] <Ronnos>
Jennifer Tidwell
- [18:37:00] <bewest>
yeah
- [18:37:04] <bewest>
didn't remember her first name
- [18:37:12] <Ronnos>
Designing Interfaces
- [18:37:12] <Tyler>
Oh? She has a cooking site?
- [18:37:18] <bewest>
one of them does
- [18:37:20] <bewest>
it's large
- [18:37:33] <bewest>
maybe collaboration would get you off the ground sooner
- [18:38:54] <Tyler>
Huh... I'm searching for it right now. :)
- [18:39:10] <bewest>
Wodtke's site
- [18:39:36] <Tyler>
eleganthack.com?
- [18:40:06] <Ronnos>
(btw, tiddwel wrote a great book)
- [18:40:43] <bewest>
they both wrote good books
- [18:41:09] <Tyler>
I only see Boxes and Arrows as a zine to her name.
- [18:41:36] <bewest>
nah, she has a bunch of websites :-)
- [18:41:43] <Tyler>
Ah
- [18:41:50] <bewest>
it might have gone offline, and she might have replaced it with her food blog
- [18:41:58] <bewest>
looks like the old one is still up
- [18:42:04] <bewest>
not sure it's what I remember though
- [18:42:13] <bewest>
she mentions a user-powered recipe site in her book
- [18:42:19] <Tyler>
Huh
- [18:42:49] <Tyler>
Ah just a recipe site though? I'm wanting to do a full-fledged food mag. :)
- [18:43:17] <bewest>
dunno
- [18:43:33] <Tyler>
http://www.spiceindiaonline.com/
- [18:43:38] <Tyler>
Haha
- [18:44:34] <Tyler>
That's for the heads up bewest. I'll need to look into it to make sure I'm not being a complete copycat. :)
- [18:45:22] <bewest>
copy cats are ok :-)
- [18:45:49] <Ronnos>
only if they copy and improve what they've copied ;)
- [18:45:55] <Tyler>
As long as they're leaning, meaner, and vastly improved. :)
- [18:46:02] <Tyler>
*leaner
- [18:46:03] <bewest>
the more like other site your sites are, the easier other people can start using it with a smaller learning curve
- [18:46:34] <Tyler>
True true.
- [18:46:57] <Ronnos>
but always remember: they are not always idiots ;)
- [18:47:07] <Tyler>
Now I just need a web app developer to work with.
- [18:47:19] <Tyler>
Since I know nothing beyond HTML/CSS/JavaScript. :)
- [18:49:08] <Ronnos>
lol
- [18:50:36] <Tyler>
I hate have viable and marketable ideas with no technology knowledge to bring it to fruition. :(
- [18:50:49] <Tyler>
*having
- [18:51:01] <Ronnos>
same here
- [18:51:02] <Ronnos>
:)
- [18:53:11] * RobertBachmann (n=rb@M2447P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
- [18:54:25] <Tyler>
Hey there RobertBachmann.
- [18:54:31] <RobertBachmann>
hi
- [18:56:57] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
- [18:56:57] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
- [18:59:04] * izo (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
- [19:00:02] <Tyler>
Hi mlinksva.
- [19:02:52] * izo (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
- [19:03:01] <Tyler>
Hey welcome back izo.
- [19:03:37] <mfbot>
[[currency-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-issues&diff=0&oldid=12135 * Emil * (+595) Comments -
- [19:04:05] <izo>
re
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- [19:09:50] <Tyler>
?forgetme
- [19:09:51] <jibot>
I have expunged Tyler from my mind
- [19:11:47] * Phae (n=phae@80-41-171-60.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has joined #microformats
- [19:11:47] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
- [19:12:05] * ChanServ sets mode +o Phae
- [19:12:05] <Tyler>
Hey evening Phae!
- [19:12:08] <Phae>
evening
- [19:12:32] <Tyler>
How was the day?
- [19:13:03] <Phae>
tiring and busy.
- [19:13:15] <Tyler>
Ah sorry to hear. Any plans for the evening besides relaxing?
- [19:13:58] <Phae>
i have a site i'm meant to build. a favour for a friend of a friend who's doing bike rides around europe and asia shortly for charity
- [19:15:23] <Tyler>
Oh nice!
- [19:16:08] <Phae>
he wants to blog and such while he's gone and keep everyone updated
- [19:16:41] <Tyler>
That should be rather fun. Any specific theme they're looking to go with?
- [19:16:46] <Tyler>
For page style, etc?
- [19:17:18] <Phae>
Dunno. He has a design. Thing is - he asked a university to get some of their students to do it for them as a project
- [19:17:24] <Phae>
and what they produced is just utter rubbish
- [19:17:40] <Phae>
but at least he sort of likes hte design, although I think it's a bit :S so I will improve it
- [19:19:06] <Tyler>
Excellent, less work and more creativity for you. :)
- [19:19:28] <Phae>
mm
- [19:20:14] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Aav204.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
- [19:22:25] <Tyler>
I'm debating how I'm going to go about implementing this user-powered magazine idea I have.
- [19:22:49] <Tyler>
I'd like to take the http://www.jpgmag.com sort of route, but not exactly.
- [19:24:16] <monkinetic>
can someone help me understand "normative references"?
- [19:24:51] <bewest>
are you familiar with the usage of "normative"?
- [19:25:01] <bewest>
eg normative versus informative
- [19:25:25] <monkinetic>
i've heard the term but am unsure of the exact peaning
- [19:25:34] <monkinetic>
so, um, no
- [19:25:36] <bewest>
ok
- [19:25:52] <bewest>
normative is similar to being 'prescriptive'
- [19:26:18] <monkinetic>
"do it this way"
- [19:26:33] <monkinetic>
?
- [19:26:48] <bewest>
A normative (or "prescriptive") claim is one that could be true only if someone or other ought to do something, or something ought to be the case. A normative term is one that cannot be used except in making normative claims. Contrasted with (merely) descriptive claims/terms.
- [19:26:48] <bewest>
www.shef.ac.uk/~phil/other/philterms.html
- [19:26:49] <bewest>
yes
- [19:26:55] <bewest>
"do it this way or it's wrong", actually
- [19:27:00] <monkinetic>
ah
- [19:27:14] <bewest>
When something, such as a standard or a judgment or evaluation, is normative, it concerns respects in which something is good or bad. Therefore, value judgments are normative, but the judgment that X is greener, or heavier, than Y is not. A standard of excellence is normative, in this sense, but a standard of measurement or a statistical norm is not.
- [19:27:14] <bewest>
www.unmc.edu/ethics/words.html
- [19:27:51] <monkinetic>
so in the example "example" page, it recommends linking to normative references for tags used, meaning links to the specs relating to any tags involved in the uF
- [19:28:00] <monkinetic>
yes?
- [19:28:24] <bewest>
if I undestand correctly, yes
- [19:28:32] <bewest>
take a look at some of the w3 standards
- [19:28:46] <bewest>
the 'standards' that w3 produces are actually called recommendations
- [19:28:49] * JMulder_ (n=me@ip9135c771.speed.planet.nl) has joined #microformats
- [19:28:54] <mfbot>
[[voting-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=voting-examples&diff=0&oldid=12136 * SteveIvy * (+912) reformat according to example-template
- [19:28:59] <bewest>
and in them, you'll notice sections that are tagged as 'normative'
- [19:29:05] <bewest>
or non-normative or informative
- [19:29:19] <Tyler>
Hi JMulder.
- [19:29:29] <bewest>
then if you notice, when they make references to prexisting technology, such as SGML, or HTTP, they'll have a link at the bottom
- [19:29:36] <bewest>
those are normative references
- [19:29:39] <JMulder_>
Hey Tyler. Ignore me. I am just timing out to annoy you all :)
- [19:29:47] <Tyler>
Haha, righto.
- [19:30:41] <bewest>
monkinetic: http://www.w3.org/TR/xslt#section-Normative-References
- [19:31:02] <monkinetic>
ok
- [19:31:30] * stuup (n=stuup@cpc2-staf1-0-0-cust301.sol2.cable.ntl.com) has joined #microformats
- [19:32:45] <bewest>
monkinetic: does that help?
- [19:32:51] <monkinetic>
i think so, thanks
- [19:32:54] <Tyler>
Doing a ?def set, don't mind the couple lines of junk.
- [19:32:55] <Tyler>
?learn Tyler is a web developer working towards a user-powered online magazine utilizing Microformats.
- [19:32:55] <jibot>
Tyler is a web developer working towards a user-powered online magazine utilizing Microformats.
- [19:32:57] <bewest>
monkinetic: it's a good question :-)
- [19:33:06] <Tyler>
?def Tyler
- [19:33:06] <jibot>
Tyler is a web developer working towards a user-powered online magazine utilizing Microformats.
- [19:33:15] <Tyler>
Excellent.
- [19:33:19] <Tyler>
Sorry for that. :)
- [19:33:49] <bewest>
Tyler: I suggest you implement the major components as webservices
- [19:34:01] <bewest>
and the front end is simply a website that consumes all the separate webservices
- [19:34:20] <bewest>
eg, look at something like evdb's api
- [19:34:26] <bewest>
but make it relevant to recipes/ratings
- [19:34:29] <Tyler>
Oh definitely. My developer is well-versed with RESTful implementation and amazing with Rails.
- [19:34:39] <Tyler>
We're going to have fun.
- [19:35:16] <Tyler>
Sure bewest, I'll take a gander for sure.
- [19:35:47] <Tyler>
Oh cool, this is neat stuff bewest.
- [19:35:54] <monkinetic>
bewest: would "links to people talking about this issue" go in an example page? or would that be in a seperate page?
- [19:35:57] <Tyler>
I'm always interested in new stuff.
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- [19:38:50] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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- [19:41:26] <mfbot>
[[voting-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=voting-examples&diff=0&oldid=12137 * SteveIvy * (+144) Add more info on standard practices
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- [20:30:48] <Tyler>
Welcome back ten
- [20:30:56] <Tyler>
*tantek
- [20:32:50] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) has joined #microformats
- [20:34:33] <Tyler>
Hi szaboat.
- [20:34:41] <szaboat>
hi Tyler
- [20:37:09] <Tyler>
How's the day going szaboat?
- [20:37:47] * blakestar (n=blakesta@cpe-76-185-114-3.tx.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
- [20:38:48] <szaboat>
Tyler: thank you :) i have a sore throat, but the day is fine
- [20:39:09] <Tyler>
Oh no! When did you get the sore throat?
- [20:39:09] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=12138 * Zaza * (+80615)
- [20:40:29] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) has joined #microformats
- [20:40:30] <jibot>
Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
- [20:40:31] <szaboat>
Tyler: at work, installing long range outdoor wifi ... but it's not microformats related :)
- [20:40:42] <Tyler>
Haha.
- [20:40:53] <Tyler>
Well, I hope you get better!
- [20:41:01] <szaboat>
thanks :)
- [20:41:05] <Tyler>
hSoreThroat
- [20:41:06] <Tyler>
;)
- [20:41:56] <szaboat>
hAha
- [20:41:56] <Tyler>
What sort of MF work do you do?
- [20:42:26] <Tyler>
I just started reading up on them on Tuesday and already I'm planning on implementing them in my upcoming project.
- [20:42:45] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=12139 * RobertBachmann * (-80615) Reverted edit of Zaza, changed back to last version by SteveIvy
- [20:43:06] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * RobertBachmann * (+0) blocked "User:Zaza" with an expiry time of infinited: spam
- [20:43:12] <szaboat>
building websites in my sparetime :) blogs, community sites
- [20:43:25] * RobertBachmann (n=rb@M2447P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit ("Leaving.")
- [20:43:32] * Loosive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
- [20:43:34] <szaboat>
i love them :)
- [20:44:00] <Tyler>
Nice! I'm going to be publishing a user-powered online food magazine.
- [20:46:04] <szaboat>
about cooking or about eating ?
- [20:46:36] <Tyler>
Cooking mostly, but there can/will be user submitted stories about food and food-related issues.
- [20:46:49] <Tyler>
The community decides what the next issue will contain. :)
- [20:47:02] <szaboat>
i've seen a video receipe site
- [20:47:20] <szaboat>
the photos were delicious :)
- [20:47:24] <bewest>
vidoes would be cool
- [20:47:33] <bewest>
like America's Test Kitchen
- [20:47:34] <Tyler>
Huh, that's cool. :)
- [20:47:37] <bewest>
my father uses that all the time
- [20:47:40] <Tyler>
Hehe
- [20:55:15] <Tyler>
The only solid piece of information I know is that it's going to be called Flambé. :)
- [20:55:40] <bewest>
I don't know how to type that :-(
- [20:55:45] <szaboat>
flamin' flambe'
- [20:56:03] <Tyler>
Oh well, the URL isn't going to be flambé.com for obvious reasons.
- [20:56:04] <Tyler>
:)
- [20:56:08] <Tyler>
I was thinking flambeed.
- [20:56:18] <Tyler>
Or flambemag.com or something.
- [20:56:43] * danja (n=danja@host239-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
- [20:56:43] <jibot>
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
- [20:57:06] <Tyler>
Hi danja.
- [20:57:26] <danja>
hiya!
- [20:58:14] <Tyler>
How's the day going?
- [21:00:05] <Tyler>
(got to make a phone call, I'll be back)
- [21:00:33] * danja (n=danja@host239-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Client Quit)
- [21:01:35] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
- [21:19:04] <Tyler>
And back. :)
- [21:19:27] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
- [21:21:26] * bear_afk is now known as bear
- [21:24:10] * danja (n=danja@host239-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
- [21:24:10] <jibot>
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
- [21:24:24] * danja (n=danja@host239-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
- [21:24:27] <Tyler>
Hey welcome back danja..... lol
- [21:24:33] <Tyler>
Goodness.
- [21:47:19] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [21:47:19] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [21:47:19] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [22:03:28] <Tyler>
What's on slate for today tantek?
- [22:03:51] <tantek>
still thinking about auto-discovery issues for hCards
- [22:05:23] <tantek>
http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-brainstorming#Auto-Discovery
- [22:06:17] <Tyler>
Nice tantek. I'll do some thinking on that tonight after work.
- [22:06:29] <Tyler>
If I'm not too hunkered down with Flambe. ;)
- [22:06:30] <tantek>
Tyler - what is the URL of your website?
- [22:06:44] <Tyler>
tantek: None yet. I'll be purchasing a domain this evening.
- [22:06:53] <tantek>
that's a good place to start
- [22:06:54] <Tyler>
I do have an IP that I'm developing on though, but with no content yet.
- [22:07:03] <Tyler>
I'm considering a couple of options.
- [22:07:09] <tantek>
when you add your contact page with hCard
- [22:07:21] <Tyler>
flambeed.com, flambemag.com, etc.
- [22:07:24] <tantek>
then the question of auto-discovery will make much more practical sense
- [22:07:25] <Tyler>
Taking suggestions of course.
- [22:07:30] * Tyler nods.
- [22:07:33] <tantek>
thus i suggest u get that far first
- [22:09:03] <Tyler>
Sounds like a plan. I'll be discussing domain options with my lead developer tonight. :)
- [22:09:17] <Tyler>
He's very much into the RESTful scene.
- [22:09:19] <mfbot>
[[hcard-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12140 * Tantek * (+53) link up blog roll person linking example
- [22:09:39] <Tyler>
So introducing him to MF will be easy and painless. :)
- [22:09:47] <tantek>
Tyler, I'd suggest you start with installing a blogging tool of your choice to handle your home page.
- [22:10:11] <tantek>
Some web hosting services offer that at no extra charge.
- [22:10:29] <Tyler>
I know that my domain registrar offers a blog with no hosting required.
- [22:10:38] <Tyler>
Which is nice, and soon e-mail as well.
- [22:12:23] * monkinetic (n=steve@nat-64-202-160-65.ip.secureserver.net) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
- [22:14:01] <Tyler>
What engine/service do you use?
- [22:21:34] * monkinetic (n=steve@nat-64-202-160-65.ip.secureserver.net) has joined #microformats
- [22:21:59] * monkinetic chuckles that none of the names on the wiki are marked up as hcards
- [22:23:21] <Tyler>
Hi monkinetic!
- [22:23:49] <Tyler>
I sort of threw that info page on myself together in about 30 seconds, haha.
- [22:26:03] <monkinetic>
and the wiki rendering is not microformat friendly. *sigh*
- [22:27:24] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
- [22:27:37] * Promethues^^ (n=Promethe@cs181170022.pp.htv.fi) Quit (Connection timed out)
- [22:31:01] <mfbot>
[[User:SteveIvy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:SteveIvy&diff=0&oldid=12141 * SteveIvy * (+143)
- [22:31:15] <bewest>
tantek: what do you mean by autodiscovery?
- [22:31:36] <tantek>
bewest - that is one of the questions :)
- [22:32:17] <mfbot>
[[User:SteveIvy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:SteveIvy&diff=0&oldid=12142 * SteveIvy * (-143) revert to pre-b0rked version
- [22:33:22] * Tyler (n=tyler@unaffiliated/tyler) Quit ("Leaving")
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- [22:34:11] <bewest>
tantek: is it "here is a list of characteristics of web pages that when present indicate the statistical probability that an hcard is present in this resource"?
- [22:35:09] <tantek>
no that is too abstract/theoretical - and that's part of the problem
- [22:35:10] * bewest would hazard a guess that identifying blogs works along the similar principles
- [22:35:25] <tantek>
we need a concrete set of auto-discovery cases that are iterated with actual real world examples
- [22:35:29] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.169-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
- [22:35:34] <monkinetic>
(wow, a serious lack of response to http://www.mail-archive.com/microformats-discuss@microformats.org/msg06065.html)
- [22:35:58] * monkinetic posits that VoteBack is an example of auto-discovery
- [22:36:03] * bewest wishes original author and subject appeared in the url
- [22:36:14] <tantek>
monkinetic - don't fret - many subjects are digested by folks for a while before they respond
- [22:36:21] <monkinetic>
k ;-)
- [22:36:43] <monkinetic>
alrighty, back in a couple hours. time to go sit in traffic for 50 minutes.
- [22:37:39] <bewest>
it's too abstract?
- [22:37:50] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.169-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
- [22:37:52] * monkinetic (n=steve@nat-64-202-160-65.ip.secureserver.net) has left #microformats
- [22:38:45] <bewest>
tantek: I'm a bit confused, are you suggesting the statistical probability determined by characteristics in a resource doesn't use actual real world examples?
- [22:39:16] <bewest>
in my mind the only way to do it is with representative sampling
- [22:39:48] <bewest>
or do you mean it's too hard because it requires lots of legwork (eg analyzing crawl data) that few organizations/people can participate in?
- [22:40:01] <bewest>
latter seems more likely
- [22:42:45] * Flambe (n=flambe@68.178.101.38) Quit (Client Quit)
- [22:42:45] <tantek>
i'm not sure that we need sampling - yet
- [22:43:00] <tantek>
let's start with just a list of well-defined cases
- [22:43:11] * Tyler (n=tyler@unaffiliated/tyler) has joined #microformats
- [22:43:17] <tantek>
and that's what i've started trying to iterate in that section of hCard brainstorming
- [22:43:26] <bewest>
use cases or prototypical resources?
- [22:43:32] <tantek>
real world use cases
- [22:43:41] <tantek>
backed by real world examples in the wild
- [22:44:06] <bewest>
use cases of autodiscovery? (sorry, just trying to align my frame of reference...)
- [22:44:07] <tantek>
example use case: give me the definitive/most-detailed hCard for this blog/site etc.
- [22:44:17] <tantek>
otherwise known to most people as the "contact information"
- [22:44:35] <tantek>
parts of it are solved
- [22:44:36] <tantek>
you go to a site
- [22:44:47] <tantek>
per HTML4, the contact information for the page is marked up via <address>
- [22:44:56] * Tyler (n=tyler@unaffiliated/tyler) Quit (Client Quit)
- [22:45:00] <tantek>
e.g. http://tantek.com/ I have a mini-hCard in the footer in an <address>
- [22:45:08] <tantek>
but that's only a mini-hCard
- [22:45:19] <tantek>
I might have a separate contact page which has more information
- [22:45:32] * BobJonkman (n=John@206-248-137-186.dsl.teksavvy.com) has joined #microformats
- [22:45:37] <tantek>
and my mini-hCard might link to that more expansive contact page which has a much bigger hCard
- [22:45:50] <tantek>
currently there is no way to indicate that link relationship for example
- [22:45:57] <bewest>
ah ok
- [22:46:05] <tantek>
so that an implementation could auto-discover the contact information for a site
- [22:46:17] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
- [22:46:20] <tantek>
the problem with the term "auto-discovery" is that it is too vague, and too overloaded
- [22:46:28] <bewest>
so by 'autodiscovery', you mean the mechanism which would relate the mini-hcard to your 'authoritative' hcard?
- [22:46:47] <tantek>
thus if you want to have a meaningful discussion about auto-discovery, you need to specify a particular use-case/example-case to discuss - otherwise you end up talking in theoretical circles
- [22:46:58] * Ronnos (n=chatzill@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.1/2006120418]")
- [22:46:59] <tantek>
and thus have a very specific, useful auto-discovery discussion
- [22:47:22] <tantek>
generic auto-discovery discussions are pretty much a complete waste of time
- [22:47:36] <bewest>
a siren call?
- [22:47:47] <bewest>
Siren's call
- [22:52:17] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
- [22:52:17] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
- [22:52:27] * BobJonkma1 (n=John@206-248-137-186.dsl.teksavvy.com) has joined #microformats
- [22:53:05] * shawn (n=shawn@netblock-68-183-69-197.dslextreme.com) has joined #microformats
- [22:53:06] <jibot>
shawn is in San Francisco
- [22:54:01] * iand (n=iand@cpc2-nthc3-0-0-cust770.nrth.cable.ntl.com) has joined #microformats
- [22:54:01] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
- [22:54:57] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) Quit (Client Quit)
- [23:06:44] <BobJonkma1>
Hi Tantek: Following up on the car phone picture you proved on hcard yesterday, wouldn't a non-cellular phone be even more appropriate for type="car" ? http://media.knuttz.net/0701/mobile_phones/old_mobile_phones_002.jpg
- [23:07:27] <tantek>
BobJonkman - that is awesome. I'm nearly speechless.
- [23:07:41] <tantek>
please feel free to update the hyperlink accordingly :)
- [23:07:46] <BobJonkma1>
Courtesy of BoingBoing yesterday.
- [23:07:56] <tantek>
except - where's the car?
- [23:08:33] <BobJonkma1>
There's a large coax connector on this phone for an external aerial; the car has to be somewhere...
- [23:08:55] <BobJonkma1>
As I recall, these phones also had a push-to-talk switch. Not that I've ever used one. I'm not that old!
- [23:10:21] * BobJonkman (n=John@206-248-137-186.dsl.teksavvy.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [23:12:31] <BobJonkma1>
Does the microformats wiki support uploading images? Unfortunately, I can see no attribution for this image on the originating Web page
- [23:17:45] <mfbot>
[[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=12143 * Bob Jonkman * (+25) Property Notes - An even cooler picture of a non-cellular car phone
- [23:19:52] <JMulder>
Man, I remember my dad had one of those not-so-mobile phones. Hilarious equipment.
- [23:21:39] <BobJonkma1>
I think you could only call the "mobile operator", who then had to set up the call for you. There used to be instructions in the front of the phone book.
- [23:21:46] <BobJonkma1>
But I'm not THAT old, really!
- [23:22:54] <tantek>
yeah - i'm not sure it is a car phone without a car in the picture
- [23:22:55] <tantek>
sorry
- [23:23:06] <tantek>
otherwise it is just a portable phone
- [23:23:13] <tantek>
that you can put in a car - or any other vehicle
- [23:23:22] <tantek>
i think car phone implies some sort of stronger "binding" to the car
- [23:23:59] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
- [23:24:00] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [23:47:02] <mfbot>
[[picoformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats&diff=0&oldid=12144 * Chris Messina * (+28) added plazes syntax
- [23:48:43] <mfbot>
[[picoformats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats&diff=0&oldid=12145 * Chris Messina * (+1)
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- [23:56:26] * lhalff (n=lhalff@adsl-67-113-14-165.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
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