IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-01-12
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [01:13:51] <jibot>
amanuel is Amanuel, the social ambassador at http://otavo.com
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- [01:26:36] <jibot>
chimezie is Chimezie Ogbuji - He is a mammal
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- [03:02:24] <Faerris>
?def
- [03:02:25] <jibot>
Braindump available at: http://an9.org/~jibot
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- [04:08:11] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12463 * SeeIt360 * (+140) Examples -
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- [04:09:37] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12464 * SeeIt360 * (-1) Examples -
- [04:13:28] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12465 * SeeIt360 * (+4) Examples -
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- [04:35:03] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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- [05:25:13] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [06:04:02] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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- [06:32:02] <mfbot>
[[User:RichQuick]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:RichQuick * RichQuick * (+255)
- [06:32:33] <mfbot>
[[User:RichQuick]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:RichQuick&diff=0&oldid=12466 * RichQuick * (-22)
- [06:33:09] <mfbot>
[[User:RichQuick]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:RichQuick&diff=0&oldid=12467 * RichQuick * (+22)
- [06:38:50] <mfbot>
[[what-are-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=what-are-microformats&diff=0&oldid=12468 * RichQuick * (+128) Richard Quick - Added a no that
- [06:38:56] <mfbot>
[[hcard-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=12469 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) Implémentations -
- [06:43:28] <mfbot>
[[hcard-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=12470 * ChristopheDucamp * (-8) Extraction de Valeur - fixing error on class="type"
- [06:45:34] <mfbot>
[[hcard-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=12471 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1) Extraction de Valeur -
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- [07:38:53] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [07:42:37] <mfbot>
[[hreview]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=12472 * Nikolaus * (+54) References -
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- [07:47:08] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [08:11:29] <jibot>
drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
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- [08:42:00] <jibot>
bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
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- [09:02:31] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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- [09:25:13] <jibot>
McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
- [09:25:16] <McNulty>
morning
- [09:29:58] <drewinthehead>
morning McNulty
- [09:30:26] <McNulty>
So I was thinking, there's been a bit of discussion about a unique root class name for the citation microformat
- [09:30:39] <McNulty>
With HTML profiles, do we still need root elements to have unique names?
- [09:45:44] <drewinthehead>
unique in what context?
- [09:50:13] <McNulty>
There's the idea that the root element (vcard, vevent, hcite) should be relatively unique
- [09:50:23] <McNulty>
as in not likely to be used outside the context of the microformat
- [09:50:23] <McNulty>
http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-parsing#root_class_name
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- [09:54:37] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [09:55:01] <McNulty>
hi Tantek, was just talking about the discussion on the mailing list about root element class names
- [09:55:39] <McNulty>
I was wondering where the need for uniqueness came from, given that we can use html profiles to disambiguate?
- [09:56:33] <tantek>
cheap disambiguation for the majority of authors
- [09:56:47] <McNulty>
right
- [09:56:51] <tantek>
who may already be using semantic class names
- [09:57:07] <tantek>
and thus by using uniqueish *root* class names
- [09:57:23] <McNulty>
but we still want to keep the non-root class names generic?
- [09:57:59] <drewinthehead>
if generic means simple and descriptive ...
- [09:58:15] <tantek>
it enables the creation of CSS selectors (and thus rules) with the root class names and generic class names which can then be constructed to avoid collisions with existing rules etc., and existing rules can be changed as well to avoid the context of the unique root class names if necessary
- [09:58:23] <tantek>
McNulty - yes
- [09:58:52] <tantek>
the property names we keep generic because generic names are easier to remember and use when used to mean generic things
- [09:59:30] <tantek>
and there is no practical need to uniqueify them since their presence inside an element with a uniqueish class name acts as a lightweight inline namespace of sorts
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- [10:23:54] <KevinMarks>
it's not so much generic as common - using the same names for the same things in different places
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- [10:28:49] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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- [11:27:28] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [12:03:01] <jibot>
julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
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- [12:50:57] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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- [13:30:02] <jibot>
amanuel is Amanuel, the social ambassador at http://otavo.com
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- [13:49:48] <jibot>
julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
- [13:56:04] <mfbot>
[[history-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=history-examples&diff=0&oldid=12473 * JeremyBoggs * (+126) HTML-based Timelines -
- [13:59:05] <mfbot>
[[history-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=history-examples&diff=0&oldid=12474 * JeremyBoggs * (+21) Participants -
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- [14:08:03] <jibot>
monkinetic is redmonk is SteveIvy is Steve Ivy - http://redmonk.net
- [14:13:03] <szaboat>
bye
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- [14:22:47] <mfbot>
[[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=12475 * AndyMabbett * (+165) vCard update mechanism is RFC
- [14:25:48] <mfbot>
[[vcard-suggestions]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vcard-suggestions&diff=0&oldid=12476 * AndyMabbett * (+82) Extensions for Instant Messaging
- [14:26:29] <mfbot>
[[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=12477 * AndyMabbett * (+90) Further Reading - Extensions for Instant Messaging
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- [14:29:31] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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- [14:29:58] <jibot>
mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
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- [14:33:35] <monkinetic>
hi mkaply
- [14:33:44] <mkaply>
hey
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- [14:53:52] <jibot>
SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
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- [15:07:00] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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- [15:11:35] <monkinetic>
sweet. i fixed my tagspace urls
- [15:11:56] <monkinetic>
that was bugging me
- [15:13:07] <monkinetic>
is there an accepted expectiation of what resides at site/tagspace/ ?
- [15:13:40] <monkinetic>
if site./tagspace/tag points to a listing of objects for a tag
- [15:20:29] * Ronnos (n=chatzill@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #microformats
- [15:20:29] <jibot>
Ronnos is Ron Kok, a friendly student Communication and Multimedia Design in The Netherlands
- [15:23:47] <mfbot>
[[abbr-design-pattern]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=abbr-design-pattern&diff=0&oldid=12478 * Sudimiy * (+95) Discussion -
- [15:24:43] * Cloud (n=Cloud@deri-wg1.nuigalway.ie) has joined #microformats
- [15:24:43] <jibot>
Cloud is http://www.johnbreslin.com/
- [15:28:17] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
- [15:29:04] * charles_r (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
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- [15:39:43] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
- [15:39:43] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
- [15:39:57] * DerekS (n=DerekS@unaffiliated/dereks) has joined #microformats
- [15:40:41] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) has joined #microformats
- [15:41:55] <DerekS>
hello. i have a bunch of microformat related questions, is anyone around to answer?
- [15:43:01] * bear_afk (n=bear@c-71-230-109-9.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
- [15:43:26] <briansuda>
go ahead and ask away
- [15:44:05] * bear (n=bear@c-71-230-109-9.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
- [15:44:49] <DerekS>
briansuda: i am alittle confused. if i wanted say my contact info to be a microformat, would i write a script on my website to parse it out, or is it more like an rss feed that youput a related link tag, and the browser knows what to do?
- [15:45:46] <monkinetic>
DerekS: you would modify your site template/html to contain the elements/classes.
- [15:45:51] <briansuda>
you can simply add the semantic class names into the HTML
- [15:46:07] <briansuda>
then other scripts/plugins will find that data and allow others to extract it
- [15:46:13] <briansuda>
do you have a specific URL?
- [15:46:28] <DerekS>
briansuda: yes i do. i am confused though what you mean
- [15:46:44] <briansuda>
ok, well if you have a LINK we can try to walk through it
- [15:47:51] <DerekS>
briansuda: right now its a gallery2 install.. http://www.slovin.us
- [15:47:59] <DerekS>
this is more of for my personal knowledge
- [15:48:06] <DerekS>
than caring about implementing (right now)
- [15:48:48] * briansuda is looking
- [15:49:09] <monkinetic>
DerekS: do you have contact info right now on that site?
- [15:49:33] <monkinetic>
if not, then a good place to start is the hcard-creator
- [15:49:35] <DerekS>
monkinetic: no
- [15:49:45] <DerekS>
http://microformats.org/code/hcard/creator
- [15:49:48] <monkinetic>
you can enter in your contact info and it will gnerate a starting html structure
- [15:49:52] <DerekS>
i did that about 30 seconds ago
- [15:49:53] <monkinetic>
yeah
- [15:49:53] <DerekS>
yeah
- [15:50:18] <monkinetic>
put that on your site, and sites like technorati, or plugins like operator can extract the contact info
- [15:50:22] <monkinetic>
in the case of hcard
- [15:50:31] <DerekS>
so it actually has to be in the html of my website?
- [15:50:35] <monkinetic>
yes
- [15:51:02] <DerekS>
its not like rss feed that gets picked up based on a link rel tag, or .ico that is always looked for?
- [15:51:06] <monkinetic>
the "h" in front of many of the microformats is left over from the fact that they are implemented in HTML
- [15:51:12] <monkinetic>
no
- [15:51:23] <DerekS>
<div class="vcard">
- [15:51:26] <DerekS>
thats the first line
- [15:51:33] <DerekS>
how does it know that iti s a microformat
- [15:51:36] <monkinetic>
right.
- [15:51:38] <DerekS>
and not some other div i made?
- [15:51:52] <briansuda>
it can be any element, it doesn't have to be div
- [15:52:01] <monkinetic>
plugins or apps that are microformat aware only look for the class="vcard"
- [15:52:04] <briansuda>
it just has to 'wrap' all the other information
- [15:52:19] <briansuda>
maybe an example from the wiki would help you understand a bit more?
- [15:52:28] <DerekS>
ahh
- [15:52:29] <DerekS>
ok
- [15:52:53] <DerekS>
as i said before, i have almost no intention of implementing (i don't really have a public website that would benefit from this)
- [15:53:00] <DerekS>
its more of personal information
- [15:53:15] <monkinetic>
pity. we need more sites implementing :-P
- [15:53:23] <DerekS>
if it was something like the favorites.ico file (or whatever) i would have just added the txt file
- [15:53:36] <DerekS>
monkinetic: my website only gets seen by close friends and family
- [15:53:41] <DerekS>
all who have my contact info
- [15:53:42] <monkinetic>
you know, seeing your gallery made me wonder... hgas anyone done a uF for photos/slides?
- [15:53:54] <monkinetic>
q directed to the channel in general
- [15:53:55] <DerekS>
haha
- [15:54:11] <monkinetic>
especially for CC licensed stuff
- [15:54:36] <monkinetic>
damn, i've got the attention span of a ferret
- [15:54:57] <monkinetic>
ah, media-info
- [15:55:09] <monkinetic>
sweet
- [15:55:52] <DerekS>
so if i wanted to create a contactinfo microformat, for example, i would have to include that html code on everypage i wanted it accessible..
- [15:55:59] <monkinetic>
yes.
- [15:56:11] <monkinetic>
or, you can link to it.
- [15:56:52] <monkinetic>
<span class="vcard"><a href=""yourprofile.file" class="fn url">you</a></span>
- [15:57:19] <monkinetic>
and then have the full hcard at ./yourpfrofile.file
- [15:57:48] <DerekS>
monkinetic: would it work in the <head> with a <link>?
- [15:58:02] <monkinetic>
not AFAIK
- [15:59:05] <DerekS>
thats what i was looking for it to do :)
- [15:59:27] <DerekS>
why does the hcard generator put commas in?
- [16:00:04] <monkinetic>
where?
- [16:00:28] <pnhChris>
where? City, State?
- [16:00:30] <DerekS>
it put them between the "locality" span, "region" span, and "postal code" span
- [16:00:43] <monkinetic>
oh, you can format it any way you like
- [16:00:50] <monkinetic>
it's the class names that are important
- [16:01:17] <DerekS>
so i can take the commas out?
- [16:01:19] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) Quit ()
- [16:01:20] <monkinetic>
sure
- [16:01:49] <monkinetic>
view source here http://redmonk.net/about-this-site for antoehr example
- [16:01:53] <DerekS>
now i could put multiple <div class="tel">?
- [16:01:59] <monkinetic>
that's a slightly moroe complex hcard
- [16:02:06] <monkinetic>
yes
- [16:02:38] <DerekS>
looking
- [16:03:13] <DerekS>
ohhh i can put an image
- [16:03:41] <monkinetic>
yes, with class=photo
- [16:04:00] <monkinetic>
mkaply: suggestion, look for photo in vcard and show it to the suer
- [16:04:04] <monkinetic>
user
- [16:04:07] <monkinetic>
in Operator
- [16:04:30] * monkinetic is now thinking about a uF jquery plugin
- [16:04:51] <DerekS>
so, basically, i create a buisness card in html, and just make sure i have the classes right?
- [16:04:56] <monkinetic>
yes
- [16:05:18] <briansuda>
monkinetic, i did start an hCard parser in jquery
- [16:05:25] <DerekS>
<p>My name is <a class="url fn" rel="me" href="http://redmonk.net/">Steve Ivy</a>. I’m interested in <a href="http://redmonk.net/archives-by-tag/">all this stuff</a>.</p>
- [16:05:30] <DerekS>
he has teh <p> stuff
- [16:05:35] <DerekS>
i could make a consumer script to do that
- [16:05:36] <DerekS>
no?
- [16:05:57] <DerekS>
and keep my hcard to only info, no formatting?
- [16:06:06] * stuup (n=stuup@62-249-234-122.no-dns-yet.enta.net) has left #microformats
- [16:06:14] <monkinetic>
DerekS: more info at http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard
- [16:06:22] <DerekS>
k
- [16:06:28] <monkinetic>
not sure what you mean DerekS
- [16:07:03] <DerekS>
hmm, me either :)
- [16:07:26] <pnhChris>
certainly DerekS ... presentation and markup can be whatever you'd like... you could even put class="vcard" on the bdy element and have the data scatter ALL around the document [though that is a fairly extreme case]
- [16:08:45] <DerekS>
rel="me"
- [16:08:53] <DerekS>
he has that in all his links, whats that mean?
- [16:09:02] <DerekS>
pnhChris: that is what i was going for, seperating
- [16:09:06] <pnhChris>
[but in that <p> example you need clas="vcard somewhere]
- [16:09:45] <monkinetic>
DerekS: all those links are things that in some way point to "me" - online profiles, sites, I run, etc
- [16:10:00] <pnhChris>
DerekS: rel="me" .. see XFN
- [16:10:05] <pnhChris>
not hcard
- [16:10:07] <DerekS>
monkinetic: so because all the info relates to me, all my tags should have it?
- [16:10:11] <DerekS>
allright, lemme look
- [16:10:18] <monkinetic>
pnhChris: that was an excerpt from my vcard
- [16:10:28] <DerekS>
monkinetic: oh, haha thats you?
- [16:10:29] <monkinetic>
DerekS: no, it's only for <a> tags
- [16:10:36] <DerekS>
i didn't realize, i should say you not he
- [16:10:36] <monkinetic>
DerekS: yes
- [16:10:42] <monkinetic>
s'ok
- [16:11:17] <pnhChris>
right monkinetic ... but rel="me" isn't hcard... its XFN data
- [16:11:33] <monkinetic>
pnhChris: true
- [16:11:37] <monkinetic>
forgot about that
- [16:11:41] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) has joined #microformats
- [16:12:03] <monkinetic>
monkinetic == uMasher
- [16:12:03] <DerekS>
oh, so if i had a friends contact info, i would have a different rel?
- [16:12:12] <monkinetic>
DerekS: you could
- [16:12:13] <pnhChris>
DerekS: http://gmpg.org/xfn/join
- [16:12:16] <DerekS>
like erl="friend met"
- [16:12:20] <DerekS>
yeah i am looking there
- [16:13:21] <DerekS>
thats more complicated than i am at right now
- [16:14:10] <monkinetic>
DerekS: that's the nice thing about uF - you can usually adopt at your own pace
- [16:14:18] <monkinetic>
since most have very few required elements
- [16:14:27] <DerekS>
so if i see on property list "type" and "value" that means i can have multiple?
- [16:14:39] <DerekS>
like email, tel, adr,
- [16:14:58] <monkinetic>
<span class="vcard"><a href=""yourprofile.file" class="fn url">you</a></span> is a valid hcard, as is the data on my about page
- [16:15:11] <monkinetic>
i believe so
- [16:16:24] * DerekS isn't following the preferred syntax
- [16:16:40] <monkinetic>
syntax for...
- [16:17:00] <DerekS>
<span class="tel"><span class="type">Home</span> (<span class="type">pref</span>erred): <span class="value">+1.415.555.1212</span>
- [16:17:04] <DerekS>
</span>
- [16:18:08] <pnhChris>
look at http://flickr.com/people/placenamehere/ for an example of a class="vcard" wrapping a lot of markup
- [16:18:23] <jcw9>
oh that reminds me: can i mix delimiters in e.123? +1 401-555-1212
- [16:18:23] <DerekS>
i don't want markup yet though
- [16:18:49] <DerekS>
how do i know when to use divs and when to use spans?
- [16:19:59] <monkinetic>
in this case, spans are used because all the data is inline
- [16:20:22] <jcw9>
DerekS, iirc it shouldn't matter in general which you use
- [16:20:25] <DerekS>
class "tel" isn't inline, no?
- [16:20:28] <monkinetic>
divs are block-level html elements, so they would display with line-breaks between them
- [16:20:36] <monkinetic>
it's an html thing
- [16:20:39] <DerekS>
ahh
- [16:20:40] <DerekS>
ok
- [16:20:57] <monkinetic>
spans just keep allt he info on one line in the html
- [16:21:02] <monkinetic>
(or, as the html is displayed)
- [16:21:16] <monkinetic>
they could be in divs, or a list,or a table, or what you will
- [16:21:42] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) Quit ()
- [16:21:44] <jcw9>
the only thing that would matter (and be moronic if you did) is if you used a tag with a nonsense semantic meaning... like putting an hcard fn in a <cite>
- [16:27:05] <DerekS>
so i can also put data in a <a> tag?
- [16:27:12] <monkinetic>
sure
- [16:27:28] <monkinetic>
typically, fn and url
- [16:27:49] <monkinetic>
but you could conceivably nest other data as well
- [16:28:59] <briansuda>
*cough* *cough* http://microformats.org/wiki/books
- [16:29:14] <DerekS>
haha
- [16:31:13] <mkaply>
monkinetic: where shouldI show the photo?
- [16:32:21] <monkinetic>
hm, good question.
- [16:32:46] <monkinetic>
since most of your stuff ie menu-based, i'm guessing there isnt' much place to, without altering the nature of menus ;-)
- [16:34:19] <monkinetic>
hm, there's no real way with geo to provide a place *name*
- [16:35:57] <briansuda>
monkinetic, if you use ABBR then some parsers will use that value for the name
- [16:36:55] <monkinetic>
right, but according to: http://microformats.org/wiki/geo#Real_world_geo_example you need two ABBR's, one for lat and one for long.
- [16:37:16] <DerekS>
is there a way to deal with extensions on telephone numbers?
- [16:37:29] <monkinetic>
i'm wondering how to do "i live in [gilbert, az]" and put the geo data in there
- [16:37:44] <briansuda>
you can do this: <abbr title="123.45;67.890" class="geo">work</abbr>
- [16:38:01] <briansuda>
i live in <abbr title="123.45;67.890" class="geo">gilbert, az</abbr>
- [16:38:10] <monkinetic>
hm, i'd not see the value;value format
- [16:38:34] <monkinetic>
now i see the rfc version on the examples section
- [16:39:11] <briansuda>
yeah, it is a wiki, so feel free to add a further example if that makes things clearer
- [16:40:10] <DerekS>
for email, can i have a "work" type and a "personal" type? i says INTERNET, x400, pref is it
- [16:40:27] <briansuda>
email doesn't really have TYPEs like work/home
- [16:40:36] <briansuda>
email is not physically tied to a place
- [16:40:40] <briansuda>
but phones are
- [16:41:19] <DerekS>
so if i want multiple email addresses, how would you reccomend specifying which is which
- [16:42:01] <monkinetic>
briansuda: not sure your abbr example above is semantically viable - is "work" a valid abbr of that geo location?
- [16:42:20] <briansuda>
DerekS, there is a PREF
- [16:42:36] <briansuda>
but generally you can not do that in vCard, but you can certainly just do it in the text of the HTML
- [16:43:03] <briansuda>
sure, "work" is the human readable portion of the machine-readable lat/lon
- [16:43:07] <monkinetic>
ah
- [16:43:17] <monkinetic>
mkaply: will operator pick that up?
- [16:43:36] <mfbot>
[[geo-cheatsheet]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-cheatsheet&diff=0&oldid=12479 * Brian * (+95) updated the ABBR geo optimization
- [16:43:37] <monkinetic>
<abbr title="123.45;67.89">place name</abbr>
- [16:43:40] <briansuda>
sure, i use it all the time
- [16:43:46] <monkinetic>
cool
- [16:43:48] <briansuda>
it doesn't pick-up the abbr value
- [16:43:56] <briansuda>
but it finds the GEO lat-lon
- [16:44:09] <mkaply>
briansuda: I fixed that in the latest release - if there is textContent for the GEO, I use it.
- [16:44:21] <briansuda>
try: http://suda.co.uk/publications/EuroOSCON06/
- [16:44:36] <briansuda>
mkaply: excellent! i'll update Operator
- [16:44:42] <mkaply>
briansuda: it's not out yet.
- [16:44:46] <mkaply>
I'm really trying for a beta today
- [16:45:05] <mkaply>
Right now I'm fighting with hCalendar descriptions
- [16:45:13] <briansuda>
the other option is to nest the GEO in an hCard, then some parsers use the FN of the hCard as the display
- [16:45:28] <mkaply>
If I just do textContent, they look like crap if they are "textContented"
- [16:45:50] <jcw9>
wow geo abbr is RAD
- [16:45:57] * jcw9 runs to update
- [16:45:59] <DerekS>
apartment/floor/building# would go in extended address?
- [16:46:02] <mkaply>
briansuda: Andy Mabbett suggested that, but my architecture doesn't make it easy for the geo to know it is in an hcard. Is there an easy way to say "if this note is a child of a node of a particular class"
- [16:46:16] <mkaply>
IF you want to try the early release, http://www.kaply.com/operator/opreator.xpi
- [16:46:18] <mkaply>
no promises though
- [16:46:41] <mkaply>
IF you want to try the early release, http://www.kaply.com/operator/operator.xpi
- [16:46:50] <briansuda>
mkaply, with XSLT you can look-up the tree
- [16:46:57] <briansuda>
not sure how much is implemented in JS
- [16:47:09] <mkaply>
briansuda: is it an xpath expression?
- [16:47:17] <briansuda>
once you have found your GEO element you can do this:
- [16:47:20] <briansuda>
ancestor::*[name() = 'del' = false() and contains(concat(' ', normalize-space(@class), ' '),' vcard ')]//*[name() = 'del' = false() and contains(concat(' ', normalize-space(@class), ' '),' fn ')]
- [16:47:30] <briansuda>
look for an ancestor with a vcard property
- [16:47:39] <briansuda>
then see if it has a decendant with an fn
- [16:47:51] <mkaply>
wow :)
- [16:47:53] <briansuda>
things like ancestor:: are slow
- [16:48:01] <monkinetic>
mkaply: briansuda: operator finds the location but not the textcontent
- [16:48:02] * mkaply puts that on the next release list :)
- [16:48:18] * briansuda just updated his XSLTs today, so the code is fresh in his mind
- [16:48:31] <monkinetic>
in the abbr geo
- [16:48:37] <monkinetic>
see: http://redmonk.net/about-this-site/
- [16:48:43] <briansuda>
so #1 i look for ABBR, then for FN in a VCARD, then default to just lat/lon
- [16:49:08] <mkaply>
monkinetic: my new code does abbr and then lat/lon. I'll think seriosly about the vcard thing
- [16:49:12] <monkinetic>
this is operator 061
- [16:49:16] <monkinetic>
pl
- [16:49:18] <monkinetic>
er, ok
- [16:49:22] <mkaply>
monkinetic: that link I just posted is for 0.6.2b
- [16:49:36] * monkinetic downloads
- [16:49:41] <mkaply>
briansuda: So how much should I care about making dsecriptions look pretty when sent to things like yahoo calendar and stuff?
- [16:49:55] <mkaply>
briansuda: With FF 2.0 I think I have a text serializer to pretty up the HTML
- [16:50:04] * monkinetic (n=steve@bia.crschmidt.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
- [16:50:15] <briansuda>
hm. that is a good quetion
- [16:50:29] <briansuda>
things like making Description pretty are up to each implementation
- [16:50:53] <briansuda>
i tried to do somethings with X2V to smarten it up abit because it does get displayed in a plain-text area
- [16:50:54] * monkinetic (n=steve@bia.crschmidt.net) has joined #microformats
- [16:50:59] <monkinetic>
i hate it when i kill my tunnel
- [16:51:09] <briansuda>
so * bullets, and \n\n for <p> and <br/>
- [16:51:13] <jcw9>
Was that gilbert az geo example known-wrong? shouldn't the longitude be negative? <abbr title="123.45;67.890" class="geo">gilbert, az</abbr>
- [16:51:29] <monkinetic>
mkaply: you r0xxor
- [16:51:42] <briansuda>
1234567890 is a made-up lat/lon
- [16:52:00] <jcw9>
That's a good point!
- [16:52:00] <monkinetic>
jcw9: it's correct on http://redmonk.net/about-this-site
- [16:52:05] <monkinetic>
lol
- [16:52:07] <jcw9>
thanks ;)
- [16:52:30] * briansuda can't get that link to load
- [16:52:45] <monkinetic>
http://redmonk.net/about-this-site/
- [16:53:04] <monkinetic>
weird
- [16:53:07] <monkinetic>
FWM
- [16:53:10] <monkinetic>
er, WFM
- [16:53:29] <briansuda>
what about:
- [16:53:30] <briansuda>
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http%3A//suda.co.uk/projects/microformats/geo/get-geo.php%3Ftype%3Dkml%26uri%3Dfile%253A/Applications/Internet/Safari.app/Contents/Resources/
- [16:53:40] <briansuda>
nope, hang on
- [16:54:13] <monkinetic>
you mean the operator-provided links?
- [16:54:22] <briansuda>
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http%3A//suda.co.uk/projects/microformats/geo/get-geo.php%3Ftype%3Dkml%26uri%3Dhttp%253A//redmonk.net/about-this-site/
- [16:54:43] <monkinetic>
worked for me
- [16:55:02] <briansuda>
it works for me now too. internet problems on my end i'm sure
- [16:55:05] <monkinetic>
ah
- [16:55:07] <DerekS>
can i send you guys a link to my hCard, and can you look tell me how it is?
- [16:55:11] <monkinetic>
sure
- [16:55:14] <monkinetic>
hit it up
- [16:55:36] <DerekS>
can i pm it to you?
- [16:55:44] <monkinetic>
k
- [16:56:01] <DerekS>
briansuda: if you don't mind also :)
- [16:56:02] <jcw9>
<abbr title="40.71633;-73.945885" class="geo adr"><span class="locality">Brooklyn</span>, <span class="region">NY</span>, <span class="postal-code">11211</span>, <span class="country-name">United States</span></abbr>
- [16:56:12] <jcw9>
^ is that ok in hCard?
- [16:56:17] <briansuda>
sure
- [16:56:22] <jcw9>
radical
- [16:56:31] <briansuda>
you can even use an ABBR for region
- [16:56:36] <briansuda>
NY=New York
- [16:56:43] <jcw9>
aha
- [16:56:59] <briansuda>
DerekS, fire away
- [16:57:26] <jcw9>
Is there a name-based region smaller than locality?
- [16:57:30] <DerekS>
briansuda: pm
- [16:57:52] <jcw9>
Brooklyn is a big town
- [16:58:07] <briansuda>
sure DerekS
- [16:58:35] <briansuda>
nothing smaller than locality, the post-code does that
- [16:58:53] <briansuda>
you can always use extended-address or just regular text to help the reader
- [16:59:04] <jcw9>
Just curious
- [16:59:07] <briansuda>
but as far as machines are conserned that ADR is all you need
- [17:00:00] <mkaply>
briansuda: did you help Avon with their microformats?
- [17:00:28] <briansuda>
not personally, Avon did it all themselves
- [17:00:43] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
- [17:01:38] <jcw9>
briansuda, not to be nycentrist, but stuff like yelp.com uses neighborhood names (for biz reviews) that don't have any correspondence with zip codes
- [17:01:48] <jcw9>
I'm sure someone will confront that eventually
- [17:01:50] <jcw9>
No biggie
- [17:02:01] <mkaply>
They have two microformats on each page, one valid, one invalid, and the invalid one contains the email. It's very annoying
- [17:02:11] <briansuda>
you can always use extended-address to capture that
- [17:02:29] <briansuda>
mkaply, link?
- [17:02:47] <mkaply>
http://joycestrain.avonrepresentative.com/contact.html?CUST_ID=0&SECURITY_TOKEN=
- [17:03:31] <mkaply>
I sure hope the Shift and Ctrl features for operator are really useful to other microformat folk. They're really freaking useful to me
- [17:04:18] * sreynen (n=sreynen@12-217-44-131.client.mchsi.com) has joined #microformats
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- [17:04:18] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
- [17:10:04] <mfbot>
[[books]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=books&diff=0&oldid=12480 * AndyMabbett * (+201) HTML Mastery
- [17:10:41] <briansuda>
the Avon page is missing the FN N and ADR for the second vcard
- [17:10:51] <briansuda>
so it is not being extracted and no Email! you are right
- [17:15:55] <mfbot>
[[abbr-design-pattern]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=abbr-design-pattern&diff=0&oldid=12481 * Tantek * (-95) Reverted edit of Sudimiy, changed back to last version by RobertBachmann
- [17:16:16] <mfbot>
[[books]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=books&diff=0&oldid=12482 * AndyMabbett * (+27) ISBN
- [17:16:17] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:Sudimiy" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
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- [17:17:58] <mfbot>
[[books]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=books&diff=0&oldid=12483 * AndyMabbett * (+22) 0596009879
- [17:18:32] <jcw9>
Argh, how can i get the stupid abbr to not have the underline?
- [17:18:40] <briansuda>
CSS
- [17:18:45] <briansuda>
text-decoration: non
- [17:18:46] <briansuda>
none
- [17:20:15] <jcw9>
.adr, .adr *, .vcard abbr {text-decoration: none !important;} isn't working
- [17:20:53] <monkinetic>
"shift and control features"? what are these features of which you speak?
- [17:21:04] <mfbot>
[[books]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=books&diff=0&oldid=12484 * AndyMabbett * (+57) ISBN, publishers, dates
- [17:22:31] * sreynen_ (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
- [17:23:03] <monkinetic>
jcw9: it's not text-decoration
- [17:23:06] <monkinetic>
it's border-bottom
- [17:23:27] <briansuda>
http://acjs.net/weblog/2004/09/15/undo_default_html_styles/index.php
- [17:23:28] <monkinetic>
at least on mine
- [17:25:14] <JMulder>
Text-decoration only produces solid line, from what I know. So the dotted line would be a border.
- [17:26:17] <jcw9>
monkinetic, thank you!~
- [17:26:26] <monkinetic>
jcw9: sure
- [17:26:42] <jcw9>
JMulder, ie has had a underline style css thing for like 8 years :/
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- [17:27:20] <DerekS>
how are you guys checking if the hcards are good? i have operator, but when i click on "export contact" and it shows me, nothing happens
- [17:27:35] <jcw9>
I wish firefox had it, I use CSS3 selectors on my links to differentiate between external and internal links and it'd be cool to style the underline differently
- [17:27:50] <JMulder>
jcw9, what?
- [17:28:56] <jcw9>
text-underline-style is an internet explorer only thing
- [17:29:09] <jcw9>
it is kind of cool
- [17:29:17] <JMulder>
Oh. *shrug* :p
- [17:29:28] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Aav204.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
- [17:29:33] <jcw9>
Yea, and border-style doesn't look so hot when your link wraps
- [17:29:33] <JMulder>
I was just saying about text-decoration ;p
- [17:29:43] <jcw9>
yea :/
- [17:29:47] <JMulder>
Or does that affect text-decoration?
- [17:30:20] <jcw9>
text-underline-style? yes
- [17:30:42] <JMulder>
Nevermind me. Just recovering from a bad flu. Having problems starting my brains up :p
- [17:31:07] * b1Rd (n=chatzill@p508281E7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #microformats
- [17:31:17] <b1Rd>
hi
- [17:31:25] <jcw9>
Hello b1Rd
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- [17:34:32] <b1Rd>
i've got a question about hCard: Are there multiple "tel"-classes with differnt type (fax, phone, mobile etc.) allowed?
- [17:35:19] <monkinetic>
b1Rd: yes
- [17:35:21] <pnhChris>
aye
- [17:35:57] <monkinetic>
see: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#Value_excerpting
- [17:37:05] <b1Rd>
so, an unordered list (class="tel") and items of different types would be a good idea?
- [17:38:34] <pnhChris>
each list item would have to be explicitly different class="tel"s... with
- [17:38:40] <monkinetic>
i don't think so
- [17:38:53] <monkinetic>
i think each tel has to be marked up separately
- [17:39:02] * iwaim_ is now known as iwaim
- [17:39:05] <monkinetic>
what pnhChris said
- [17:39:18] <b1Rd>
sorry, each list item as class="tel" with span in it.
- [17:39:48] * monkinetic updates his about page with a lnk to his *really first about page* and a creepy self-portrait
- [17:39:52] <pnhChris>
<ul><li class='tel'><span class='type'>home</span>: <span class='value'>555-1212</span></li></ul>
- [17:40:02] <monkinetic>
(http://redmonk.net/about-this-site)
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- [17:40:46] <pnhChris>
[...is how you'd translate the link monkinetic pointed to]
- [17:43:07] * Revolt-Puppy (n=chatzill@rrcs-67-52-54-196.west.biz.rr.com) has joined #microformats
- [17:43:57] <Revolt-Puppy>
Hey guys and gals.
- [17:44:10] * kingryan_ (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [17:44:25] <Revolt-Puppy>
Is there a way to use multiple dates for one vevent?
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- [17:44:57] <b1Rd>
<ul><li class="tel"><span class="type">Fax</span>: <span class="value">12345</span></li><span class="type">Mobile</span>: <span class="value">12345</span></li>...</ul> should fine!?
- [17:45:33] * bengee (n=bengee@82.207.128.166) Quit ("Leaving")
- [17:47:04] <pnhChris>
missing a <li class="tel"> before the second item, but that's the idea
- [17:47:32] <b1Rd>
ah, yes. sorry!
- [17:52:56] <b1Rd>
in my understanding <ul> adds a stronger grouping of the elements than for example <div> with <p>s in it. the examples on the wiki use <span>s. is it just a matter of taste or is there a kind of best practice?
- [17:53:24] <kingryan_>
b1Rd: span's are used because they're generic
- [17:53:35] <kingryan_>
use whatever's appropriate for your context
- [17:54:28] <b1Rd>
okay, thank you all.
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- [17:57:49] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
- [18:04:22] <monkinetic>
heh: http://lawver.net/archive/2007/01/12/h11_a_nontechnical_microformat_definition.php -- "Microformats for non-techies: colours on a Web page for things such as "date" and "telephone number" which only computers can see"
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- [18:35:51] <mkaply>
I just put operator 0.6.2 beta up officially - www.kaply.com/weblog
- [18:36:16] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [18:36:16] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [18:36:16] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [18:38:43] <jibot>
SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
- [18:39:26] <DerekS>
mkaply: i am trying to transform an hCard into a vcard... it does it right with technorati but not operator. can i pm you the address?
- [18:39:39] <tantek>
good morning
- [18:39:46] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12485 * WizardIsHungry * (-38) no more address hiding
- [18:39:48] <mkaply>
DerekS: please
- [18:39:59] * jkridner (i=a0321898@nat/ti/x-3a157b4c7fa4b2a8) has joined #microformats
- [18:40:00] <jibot>
jkridner is Jason Kridner (JasonK on microformats.org/wiki) and blogs at http://blog.hangerhead.com.
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- [18:44:48] <jibot>
markp is Mark Pilgrim
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- [18:48:38] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12486 * AndyMabbett * (+73) New Examples - Logo in footer of West Midland Bird Club pages
- [18:52:14] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12487 * AndyMabbett * (+5) fix
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- [19:01:20] <mfbot>
[[User:AndyMabbett]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=12488 * AndyMabbett * (+66) My microformats interests - my contributions
- [19:05:42] <mfbot>
[[User:AndyMabbett]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=12489 * AndyMabbett * (+193) My microformats interests - update
- [19:05:58] <mfbot>
[[User:AndyMabbett]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=12490 * AndyMabbett * (+1) My microformats interests - [
- [19:07:42] * bear is now known as bear_afk
- [19:08:15] <monkinetic>
anyone know what "vote-abstain" actually *means*?
- [19:08:23] <monkinetic>
is is the same as "no opinion"?
- [19:08:33] <monkinetic>
if so, then why vote at all?
- [19:09:48] <kingryan_>
monkinetic: because there is sometimes an assumption that a link is a vote-for
- [19:09:53] * kingryan_ is now known as kingryan
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- [19:10:01] <kingryan>
for example, in PageRank and HITS
- [19:16:24] <monkinetic>
gotcha
- [19:16:58] <monkinetic>
so it's a way to explicitly say "i have no opinion and don't treat the link as a vote-for"
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- [19:26:42] <kingryan>
monkinetic: right
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- [19:35:52] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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- [19:45:16] <jcw9>
What does UID even mean in hCards
- [19:46:25] <kingryan>
just a universal identifier
- [19:46:38] <kingryan>
it could be used to tie together multiple version's of the same person's hcard
- [19:47:43] * sreynen (n=sreynen@12-217-44-131.client.mchsi.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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- [19:48:25] <jcw9>
Is it freeform? should i use my email address?
- [19:48:45] <tantek>
jcw9 - in practice many different things have been used for UID by clients
- [19:48:53] <jcw9>
<a rel="me" class="email uid" href="mailto:jon@wizardishungry.com">jon@wizardishungry.com</a>
- [19:49:11] <tantek>
current thinking for hCards has started to bias towards using URLs for UIDs
- [19:49:24] <tantek>
and in particular, the *definitive* URL for an hCard as the UID
- [19:49:43] <jcw9>
That's interesting when you couple it with openid
- [19:49:48] <tantek>
(definitive from the publisher's perspective, and thus likely to be on the very site that the publisher is publishing it)
- [19:50:00] <tantek>
yes, it definitely gets *very* interesting when you couple it with openid
- [19:50:11] <kingryan>
and xfn
- [19:50:14] <tantek>
but of course, that coupling is loose - in that they work separately, and together
- [19:50:42] <tantek>
modularity as it were
- [19:50:45] <tantek>
one of our principles
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- [20:08:21] <mfbot>
[[process]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=process&diff=0&oldid=12491 * Tantek * (+834) create pages, use generically named problem areas, more specifics on proceeding with naming a microformat
- [20:10:22] * mkaply just got microformat highlighting working. sweet
- [20:10:37] <mkaply>
when you hover over a microformat
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- [20:16:50] <monkinetic>
mkaply: w00t
- [20:16:52] <monkinetic>
what does it do?
- [20:17:15] <mkaply>
nonkinetic: when you move the mouse on a page, it will outline the microformats, and when you right click you'll get a context menu specific to that microformat
- [20:17:23] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
- [20:18:28] <monkinetic>
nice
- [20:21:17] <tantek>
mkaply - wow - looking forward to seeing that
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- [20:27:59] <mkaply>
the highlighting looks a little clunky though. I'm using css border
- [20:28:11] <mkaply>
so I don't affect content
- [20:41:17] <monkinetic>
mkaply: you could also create an absolute positioned div with transparency set over top of it
- [20:41:39] <monkinetic>
dom-wise
- [20:41:48] <mkaply>
monkinetic: the only downside to that is that events would go to the div on top, so I'd have to funnel events through it. I think
- [20:41:55] <monkinetic>
hm.
- [20:41:57] <monkinetic>
yeah
- [20:42:34] <mkaply>
the way I've seen it done is insert 4 divs around the elements
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- [20:42:49] <mkaply>
I like the way armadillo does it. But I'm desperatley trying to not copy code
- [20:42:54] <mkaply>
aardvark
- [20:42:57] <mkaply>
not armadillo
- [20:43:29] <mkaply>
actually, aardvark is perfect. hmmm
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- [20:49:02] <jibot>
SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
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- [22:11:21] <jibot>
chimezie is Chimezie Ogbuji - He is a mammal
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- [23:30:50] * ChanServ sets mode +o sreynen
- [23:30:50] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on
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