IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-01-19
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [00:15:23] <mfbot>
[[A proposal for amendment of the geo microformat]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=A_proposal_for_amendment_of_the_geo_microformat&diff=0&oldid=12651 * DimitriosZachariadis * (+216) Default Reference System -
- [00:32:45] <mfbot>
[[A proposal for amendment of the geo microformat]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=A_proposal_for_amendment_of_the_geo_microformat&diff=0&oldid=12652 * DimitriosZachariadis * (-178)
- [00:34:22] * ntoll (n=ntoll@85-210-169-69.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #microformats
- [00:37:55] <ntoll>
hi, is there an existing way to show if a marked up "thing" is a mandatory or optional requirement (such as in a shopping list written out using XOXO: MUST get Loo Roll, nice to get choc-chip cookies etc etc)? Could I not just add a "mandatory" class to the item in question?
- [00:40:04] <tantek>
ok folks, since no other alternatives have been proposed, let's declare that Nova *is* the location for tonight's SF microformats dinner.
- [00:40:47] <ntoll>
have a good time...
- [00:43:27] <mfbot>
[[events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner&diff=0&oldid=12653 * Tantek * (+322) SF microformats dinner location finalized. Nova.
- [00:43:41] <tantek>
ntoll - not sure what you mean by "mandatory"
- [00:43:50] <tantek>
what is the context?
- [00:45:09] <ntoll>
well, take the shopping list - it is a list of requirements, some of which MUST be met whilst others are optional
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- [00:45:43] <ntoll>
mandatory might not be the best terminology though....
- [00:46:40] <ntoll>
I'm also thinking about the requirements for a job-listing (again) - some skills will be mandatory whilst others would be "nice-to-have"
- [00:51:01] <tantek>
rather than abstracting to "mandatory" / "nice-to-have", I think it is worth seeing if such a property is in the 80/20 of those containing microformats first, and designing accordingly.
- [00:51:48] <ntoll>
I agree...
- [00:51:52] <tantek>
creating abstract generic properties in a vacuum (or before / without constraining them with specific examples) will likely result in them either being overly watered down, or overly complex in order to handle "possible cases" instead of "actual cases"
- [00:55:18] <ntoll>
actually, I was thinking along the lines of XOXO within XOXO?!? e.g. the markup example in the SImple XOXO examples on the wiki
- [00:55:58] <mfbot>
[[events/2007-01-la-get-together]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-01-la-get-together&diff=0&oldid=12654 * Mike * (+201) can't make it on friday. Added link to free wifi list for LA
- [00:56:19] <mfbot>
[[events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner&diff=0&oldid=12655 * Ravenium * (+53)
- [00:56:59] <ntoll>
something like... <ul class="xoxo"> <li>Mandatory<ol class="xoxo"><li>item 1</li></ol></li><li>Optional <......></ul> etc etc
- [00:57:38] <ntoll>
hmmm... well, just talking about it seems to have cleared it in my mind... I'll go with XOXO.... :-)
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[[events/2007-01-la-get-together]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-01-la-get-together&diff=0&oldid=12656 * Tantek * (+68) please put your name next to your vote for any proposals
- [00:59:06] <mfbot>
[[events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner&diff=0&oldid=12657 * Tantek * (+6)
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- [01:12:18] <mfbot>
[[events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner&diff=0&oldid=12658 * Veeliam * (+22)
- [01:18:24] <mfbot>
[[events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner&diff=0&oldid=12659 * Tantek * (+0)
- [01:26:30] <mfbot>
[[events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner&diff=0&oldid=12660 * Tantek * (+44)
- [01:27:31] <mfbot>
[[events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner&diff=0&oldid=12661 * Tantek * (+89)
- [01:28:07] <mfbot>
[[events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner&diff=0&oldid=12662 * Tantek * (+7)
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- [02:23:38] <KevinMarks>
tantek, can you save me a seat
- [02:23:52] <tantek>
KevinMarks - first come first serve!
- [02:24:08] <tantek>
and currently we have 4 out of 8 spots at a table
- [02:31:35] <mfbot>
[[events/2007-01-la-get-together]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-01-la-get-together&diff=0&oldid=12663 * Mike * (-11) put my name
- [02:40:16] <mfbot>
[[events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner&diff=0&oldid=12664 * Chris Messina * (+28)
- [02:47:44] <mfbot>
[[events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner&diff=0&oldid=12665 * Tantek * (+92)
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- [02:52:04] <Baristo>
Hello!
- [02:56:20] <tantek_>
Hello Baristo - a bunch of us are having dinner right now.
- [02:57:01] <Baristo>
Ah okay, hope it's a good meal!
- [02:57:55] <Baristo>
I had a question or two so I'll wait till more people are about.
- [02:59:27] <mfbot>
[[events/2007-01-la-get-together]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-01-la-get-together&diff=0&oldid=12666 * Leikam * (+67)
- [02:59:54] <tantek_>
the table is now full at Nova
- [03:00:04] <tantek_>
anybody else coming will need to collect folks and grab a second table
- [03:00:30] <tantek_>
which is not too bad now that it is an HOUR after the start time ;)
- [03:00:31] <Baristo>
Which city is this?
- [03:00:48] <tantek_>
http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner
- [03:01:17] <Baristo>
Ah nice. I'm up in Seattle else I'd come find a seat. :)
- [03:02:09] <Baristo>
I really do need to relocate to the Bay aera.
- [03:02:11] <Baristo>
*area
- [03:02:59] <KevinMarks>
well, I'm still fixing spiders, btu i should be there soon
- [03:05:15] <Baristo>
I'm weighing in on how Microformats can be integrated into an upcoming site project of mine.
- [03:05:55] <KevinMarks>
upcoming.org ? ;)
- [03:06:59] <Baristo>
Haha. :D
- [03:07:44] <Baristo>
That's a cleaver site indeed.
- [03:07:56] <Baristo>
*clever
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- [03:08:36] <Baristo>
More in line with my name though. Think cork'd for coffee.
- [03:09:47] <Baristo>
With a few extras.
- [03:12:40] <Baristo>
So many people consume it, why not give them an online community? :)
- [03:12:50] <Baristo>
*interactive community
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- [03:15:40] <Baristo>
Welcome back tantek.
- [03:16:56] <Baristo>
Anyway, hope you all have a great dinner! I'll be around for a while so when more people are chatty we can talk integration. :)
- [03:18:23] <tantek>
the table next to ours just opened up
- [03:18:31] <tantek>
is anyone coming in the next 5 minutes?
- [03:18:34] <tantek>
if so, we can grab it
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- [03:34:05] <tantek>
Chris Messina has just arrived, and squatting an empty table for 8.
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- [03:34:39] <Baristo>
Want to hold the table while I hop on a plane? :)
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- [03:40:12] <KevinMarks>
this is Nova next door to 21st amendment?
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[[rejected-formats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rejected-formats&diff=0&oldid=12667 * Tantek * (+194)
- [04:19:03] <mfbot>
[[abstract-properties]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/abstract-properties * Tantek * (+590)
- [04:19:19] <mfbot>
[[abstract-properties]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=abstract-properties&diff=0&oldid=12668 * Tantek * (-1)
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- [04:22:26] <mfbot>
[[abstract-properties]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=abstract-properties&diff=0&oldid=12669 * Tantek * (+74) link to parent context
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- [04:34:52] <tantek_>
down to 0% battery life.
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- [06:11:58] <Baristo>
How did the dinner go?
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- [06:58:18] <Baristo>
Does Dan Benjamin or Cederholm come in here much at all? I'd love to chat with them about some things.
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- [09:16:37] <Baristo>
Evening folks. :)
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- [10:08:32] <mfbot>
[[events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner&diff=0&oldid=12670 * Veeliam * (-39)
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[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12671 * FredericLepied * (-142) Examples with some problems -
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- [13:57:14] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12672 * FredericLepied * (+137) New Examples -
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- [14:23:17] <AdamCraven>
Quick question:
- [14:23:29] <AdamCraven>
When marking up this information
- [14:23:31] <AdamCraven>
Las Vegas Store3663 Las Vegas Blvd SouthSuite #210Las Vegas, NV 89109P: 702-688-4227F: 702-938-7647
- [14:23:39] <AdamCraven>
with Hcard
- [14:23:55] <AdamCraven>
What is 'Las Vegas Store' attributed under
- [14:24:37] <AdamCraven>
The organisation is 'Ben Sherman'
- [14:25:13] * BenWard ponders this a bit
- [14:26:14] <AdamCraven>
under org there's 'organization-name' and 'organization unit'
- [14:30:05] <BenWard>
From a little hunt around, I think it's organization-uni that you're looking for
- [14:32:50] * monkinetic adds experimental hcard support to a major (and i do mean major) hosting provider's in-development ecommerce app
- [14:36:44] <AdamCraven>
yeah, I'm not too sure about it! Nice one Monkinetic. I've been adding them to all the major sites I've been working on too
- [14:41:23] <monkinetic>
Operator gives me warm fuzzies when adding uF to apps
- [14:42:06] <monkinetic>
are locality, region, postal-code *required* inside adr?
- [14:42:21] <monkinetic>
or can I do <adr>City, State, Zip</adr>
- [14:42:29] <monkinetic>
(if i don't control that data)
- [14:43:49] <AdamCraven>
they aren't required
- [14:44:10] <AdamCraven>
http://suda.co.uk/projects/microformats/cheatsheet/
- [14:44:15] <AdamCraven>
Brilliant for reference
- [14:44:38] <monkinetic>
true
- [14:46:02] * sreynen_ (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) has joined #microformats
- [14:47:41] * monkinetic tacks it up on his wall
- [14:49:48] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
- [14:50:30] * briansuda is half here
- [14:50:42] <briansuda>
Las Vegas Store could be marked-up as 'extended-address'
- [14:57:02] <monkinetic>
brian: does X2V handle anything other than vcard?
- [14:57:35] <monkinetic>
ah - hcard and hcal
- [14:57:35] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-f33a309d67587c7c) has joined #microformats
- [14:57:46] <monkinetic>
mkaply: hi!
- [14:58:06] <mkaply>
monkinetic: hey. FYI I added magnolia support for xfolk
- [14:58:14] <monkinetic>
nice
- [14:58:15] <briansuda>
X2V was a bad name, because now it encompases alot of different things
- [14:58:20] <AdamCraven>
On the same question, is this invalid?
- [14:58:20] <AdamCraven>
<span class="tel">
- [14:58:20] <AdamCraven>
<span class="type work">T</span>
- [14:58:20] <AdamCraven>
<span class="value">318-657-3400</span>
- [14:58:20] <AdamCraven>
</span>
- [14:58:44] <briansuda>
sort-of
- [14:58:48] <monkinetic>
briansuda: i had an idea to create a transformation into standard resume format for hresume
- [14:58:48] <briansuda>
it is valid mark-up
- [14:58:54] <briansuda>
but the TYPE is incorrect
- [14:58:57] <AdamCraven>
the clients are very strict with the visual content, so using 'work' over 'T' would unfortunately be not possible
- [14:59:05] <briansuda>
you'd need <span class="type">work</span>
- [14:59:07] <briansuda>
or
- [14:59:20] <briansuda>
<span class="type"><abbr title="work">T</abbr></span>
- [14:59:41] <AdamCraven>
wow, that's a posh solution
- [14:59:46] <briansuda>
monkinetic, hresume->???
- [15:00:00] <monkinetic>
so that you could markup up your web page as hresume but make is as purty as you like, then provide a download link to a standardized format
- [15:00:02] <briansuda>
or Adam Craven, you can do:
- [15:00:17] <monkinetic>
briansuda: html actually, unless you could spit out rtf ;-)
- [15:00:18] <briansuda>
<img src="work.png" alt="work" class="type">
- [15:00:39] <mkaply>
ooh. that's a good one.
- [15:00:53] <briansuda>
there is Resume-XML and a EU HR standard
- [15:00:54] <AdamCraven>
ah, these are taken from the design patterns?
- [15:01:21] <briansuda>
not really design patterns, but more just how attributes are correctly semantically interpreted
- [15:01:31] <briansuda>
like @title on ABBR, and @alt on IMG
- [15:02:11] <AdamCraven>
semantically, is 't' an abbreviation of 'work'?
- [15:02:32] <briansuda>
:) that's the crux of alot of debate
- [15:03:32] * sreynen (n=sreynen@12-217-44-131.client.mchsi.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [15:03:57] <mkaply>
AdamCraven: you wouldn't hapepn to work at zdnet.co.uk, would you?
- [15:04:02] <AdamCraven>
yeah, I can see why! I like the idea of having multiple classes to represent data (the wrong way I did it before), because it allows a lot more flexibility with styling the data after.
- [15:04:45] <AdamCraven>
I don't no. I'm doing some freelancing ATM (http://codepress.co.uk) and will be working for a company called cimex at the end of the month
- [15:04:48] <monkinetic>
mkaply: operator needs photo/logo/note support :-)
- [15:04:53] <AdamCraven>
*i don't, no
- [15:05:01] <mkaply>
AdamCraven: http://zdnet.co.uk/misc/contact/
- [15:05:26] <mkaply>
monkinetic: I'm considering a sidebar, but I don't want to step on Tails Export. It would also allow for doing multiperson export
- [15:05:41] <AdamCraven>
what am I looking for mkaply?
- [15:05:55] <monkinetic>
mkaply: mostly i'm lookig for it in the debug window
- [15:05:57] <mkaply>
AdamCraven: zdnet.co.uk uses the T thing as well and totally screws it up:
- [15:06:00] <mkaply>
so you are not alone :)
- [15:06:02] <mkaply>
<div class="tel">
- [15:06:02] <mkaply>
<span class="type">T:</span>
- [15:06:02] <mkaply>
<span class="value">+44 (0)20 7903 6980</span>
- [15:06:02] <mkaply>
</div>
- [15:06:03] <monkinetic>
even if you don't "do" anything with it yet
- [15:06:08] <AdamCraven>
aha
- [15:06:12] <mkaply>
monkinetic: that's really easy
- [15:06:25] <monkinetic>
yeah, it would make it easier to make sure we're implementing them right
- [15:06:49] <monkinetic>
hey, i wonder if you could ping the firebug guy
- [15:06:50] <mkaply>
monkinetic: adding now. I added bday yesterday. And started working on note
- [15:06:52] <AdamCraven>
I believe it should be: <span class="type work">T:</span>
- [15:07:01] <monkinetic>
and roll some of the operator debug info into a firebug tab
- [15:07:23] <AdamCraven>
it's wrong at the moment, but it should be implemented the 'extra' class method
- [15:07:26] <mkaply>
hmm. extending firebog
- [15:07:28] <monkinetic>
console | html | css | script | dom | uF :-)
- [15:07:39] <briansuda>
<span class="type work">T:</span> is still invalid
- [15:07:45] <AdamCraven>
I know it is
- [15:08:05] <briansuda>
once the parser finds class="type" it has to look for the child for the value, not on the same node...
- [15:08:32] <AdamCraven>
an annoying technical limitation!
- [15:09:21] <briansuda>
all part of human-readability! and nesting of things so it is possible to associate data
- [15:10:17] <monkinetic>
mkaply: http://code.google.com/p/firephp/wiki/ExtendingFirebug
- [15:10:22] <monkinetic>
FYI :-)
- [15:11:33] <mkaply>
hmmm
- [15:11:45] <AdamCraven>
Then it's an issue of the semantic problems. The 't' abbreviation for 'work'. Although couldn't you just have '<span class="tel>T:<span class="value">3232-3232-32</span><span>, thus not having to include the 'type'?
- [15:11:51] * ajturner (n=irc@d14-69-228-190.try.wideopenwest.com) has joined #microformats
- [15:12:11] * SamRose (n=chatzill@brick.voyager.net) has joined #microformats
- [15:12:14] <mkaply>
AdamCraven: yeah, but having the work semantic in there is nice.
- [15:12:23] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) Quit ()
- [15:12:52] <monkinetic>
mkaply: also, perhaps make the structure tab on the debug window the default
- [15:13:11] <briansuda>
i wouldn't get too hung-up on T != work
- [15:13:15] <mkaply>
monkinetic: that's funny. I thought people would be more interested in the source
- [15:13:18] <AdamCraven>
I know, but sometimes the client specs are inflexible. Plus when representing companies, having a phone number listed as 'work' isn't common. It's more 'call us' 'telephone' 'contact nubmer'
- [15:13:18] <briansuda>
it is a 'work Telephone'
- [15:13:34] <monkinetic>
not the kind of people that use "debug"
- [15:13:36] <monkinetic>
:D
- [15:30:10] <mkaply>
monkinetic: nice thought. but that Firebug stuff appears dated. I was able to get a tab to appear, but it is much more complex than that :)
- [15:30:25] <monkinetic>
heh
- [15:30:48] <monkinetic>
well, i might still ping joe hewitt (firebug guy) and ask about it
- [15:31:14] <monkinetic>
i think it would be a huge addition - it would also help all those devleopers out there that are using firebug to be more aware of uFs
- [15:32:03] <mkaply>
I did ping joe - I know him
- [15:35:01] * briansuda (n=briansud@bokd083.rhi.hi.is) Quit ("need to find better wifi!")
- [15:36:40] <monkinetic>
mkaply: cool
- [15:38:36] <mkaply>
I got a tab appearing in Firebug, but I can't hook it up
- [15:38:56] <monkinetic>
bummer.
- [15:39:06] <monkinetic>
cool idea though, huh?
- [15:39:50] <monkinetic>
anyone know how to make a "mu" on a windows keyboard?
- [15:39:54] <mkaply>
monkinetic: very
- [15:43:11] <mkaply>
monkinetic: user charmap
- [15:43:20] <mkaply>
µ
- [15:44:55] <monkinetic>
man, i miss my mac. alt-<char> and alt-shift-<char> give you a lot of the usual international characters (accented characters and greek characters)
- [15:46:44] <monkinetic>
μ
- [15:46:59] <monkinetic>
μF!
- [15:47:00] <monkinetic>
:D
- [15:48:51] <mkaply>
monkinetic: you can easily configure your windows keyboard to do that
- [15:49:00] <monkinetic>
yeah?
- [15:49:02] <monkinetic>
how so?
- [15:50:45] <mkaply>
add
- [15:51:26] <mkaply>
monkinetic: did you get all that?
- [15:51:44] <monkinetic>
nope
- [15:51:46] <monkinetic>
none of it
- [15:51:53] <mkaply>
monkinetic: strange. I guess I can't personal message you
- [15:52:01] <monkinetic>
weird
- [15:52:05] <monkinetic>
should be able to
- [15:52:07] <mkaply>
monkinetic: join #foo
- [16:05:57] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12673 * XyMox12 * (+34) Stroked out error message as site has been altered
- [16:07:06] <monkinetic>
mkaply: in other news, operator does not seem to grab the value of adr if it's not in sub-items
- [16:07:47] <monkinetic>
i've got <span class="adr">city, state, zip</span> and operator's debug window shows an empty adr object
- [16:10:36] * OpenStandards (n=vir@ACBD0BC0.ipt.aol.com) has joined #microformats
- [16:37:59] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild-fr&diff=0&oldid=12674 * OlivierSeres * (+292) GreatPlaceToGolf -
- [16:38:08] <mkaply>
monkinetic: My understanding is that is invalid markup.
- [16:38:17] <mkaply>
I thought adr was a container object only?
- [16:38:51] <monkinetic>
mkaply: huh - i asked earlier about that and was told that the sub-elements were optional
- [16:38:53] <monkinetic>
hm.
- [16:40:01] <mkaply>
monkinetic: ok, my bad then. Although not using subelements makes most Operator functionality useless
- [16:40:24] <mkaply>
Things like yahoo contact, export, etc. rely on being able to parse out the values...
- [16:40:36] <monkinetic>
well, i know. but in this case, adr is a single text field for the user, so i can't depend on having access to each component to mark it up
- [16:44:39] <mkaply>
monkinetic: can you give me a logo/photo example?
- [16:49:37] <mkaply>
monkinetic: so should adr only be the text of the adr if there are no subcategories at all?
- [16:56:55] * briansuda (n=briansud@bokd083.rhi.hi.is) has joined #microformats
- [16:56:55] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
- [16:59:27] <mkaply>
briansuda: Just the person I was thinking about. Are the attributes under an adr optional? And if so, what does an adr without any options mean? You can't really do anything with it
- [16:59:58] <briansuda>
right, but i am pretty sure there is no required values inside ADR
- [17:00:23] <briansuda>
if you had a class="adr" and nothing underneath, X2V will return something like ....
- [17:00:44] <briansuda>
ADR:;;;;; which is just a blank address. That then will probably just be ignored by importing apps
- [17:01:02] <briansuda>
and/or it will add blank values if you were 'merging' an old vCard and a New
- [17:01:41] <mkaply>
briansuda: Yeah. that seems like bad practice. I can make some stuff work in Operator with a plain address, but not everything
- [17:02:04] <briansuda>
what do you mean exactly?
- [17:02:23] * charlie_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [17:02:25] <mkaply>
well, like adding a yahoo contact - it requires explicit address information
- [17:02:32] <mkaply>
the yahoo API that is
- [17:02:57] <mkaply>
it doesn't have a "one box"
- [17:02:58] <briansuda>
you are required to have some ADR info?
- [17:03:27] <mkaply>
briansuda: I see what you are saying. No you aren't.
- [17:03:43] <mkaply>
So basically, I can allow an adr with nothing underneath, but it won't get used anywhere.
- [17:03:47] <mkaply>
IT will just be data I store
- [17:04:05] <briansuda>
yes, or the importing app will be smart enough and just ignore it too
- [17:04:36] <briansuda>
i would imagine an blank PHOTO, blank LOGO, etc would just be ignored/scrubbed by the importer
- [17:04:49] <briansuda>
that is sort-of out of scope for us,
- [17:05:10] <briansuda>
if you intentionally marked-up the microformats, then we should preserve what you intended
- [17:05:16] <briansuda>
even if it is blank
- [17:05:35] <mkaply>
briansuda: fair.
- [17:05:39] <briansuda>
because there MIGHT have been an intent with a NULL value - it is not our job to decide to clean it up
- [17:05:46] <briansuda>
that's my take
- [17:05:57] <briansuda>
same for valid/invalid values
- [17:06:18] <mkaply>
briansuda: so you would even store an invalid type if it wasn't in the list?
- [17:06:24] <briansuda>
i clean-up ISO times and normalize them, but not much else. I'll leave the validation to importing apps
- [17:06:44] <mkaply>
briansuda: FYI So one feature I added into Operator (it's VERY hidden) is that if you put all of your XSL files in a specific directory, I invoke your converter under the covers and put it in the debug window
- [17:06:46] <briansuda>
depends, not invalid attributes (home, work, etc.) those are enumerated
- [17:06:53] * charlie_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
- [17:07:17] <briansuda>
but for EMAIL, i would let something like "foo@bar@@@.com" pass
- [17:07:20] <mkaply>
So I can compare to your results. I'm still running into some URL weirdness. I'll have to put my test page up somewhere
- [17:07:33] <mkaply>
briansuda: I'm definitely not parsing emails and things like that for correctness
- [17:07:40] <briansuda>
that is obviously invalid, but not my prob, some one intentionally marked it up that way
- [17:07:43] * bergie (n=bergie@84.243.52.249) Quit ()
- [17:07:49] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@84.243.52.249) Quit ()
- [17:07:59] <briansuda>
great to hear about the Debug stuff.
- [17:08:13] <briansuda>
that keeps both of us honest and up-to-date on the code-base
- [17:08:26] <mkaply>
briansuda: I was originally going to use your online version directly, but I didn't want to keep hitting your server :)
- [17:08:58] <briansuda>
probably a good idea, it is a shared box so there would be preformance issues :)
- [17:09:35] <mkaply>
briansuda: What might be interesting is a way to download all 5 of your XML files in one shot for people.
- [17:09:42] <mkaply>
that want to use that feature.
- [17:09:59] <briansuda>
not a bad idea.
- [17:10:11] <mkaply>
And I had to change those files to not have relative URLs in them.
- [17:10:31] <briansuda>
i have been migrating away from the URL /projects/X2V/ and giving each format it's own directory
- [17:10:47] <briansuda>
i could use X2V as the 'download all' extract all, sort of homepage
- [17:11:15] <briansuda>
yeah, i have run into the relative URL issue too, it is possible to use the fully qualified http://
- [17:11:28] <briansuda>
but then all calles use bandwidth instead of the file system
- [17:11:32] <briansuda>
so i'll tweak it abit
- [17:12:02] * sreynen (n=sreynen@12-217-44-131.client.mchsi.com) has joined #microformats
- [17:12:02] * ChanServ sets mode +o sreynen
- [17:12:59] * briansuda wonders is anyone else is having trouble with Twitterrific timing out?
- [17:14:08] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit ()
- [17:15:16] * BenWard (n=BenWard@host81-156-108-10.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
- [17:30:41] * mustaqila (n=moose@last.fm/staff/Muz) has joined #microformats
- [17:32:29] <mkaply>
briansuda: sorry, one more opinion question. If there were some scenario where someone did <span class="adr">123 Anywhere Street<span class="postal-code">78641</span></span>
- [17:32:33] * sreynen_ (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
- [17:32:39] * Baristo (n=baristo@68.178.101.38) has joined #microformats
- [17:32:57] <briansuda>
a string parser would ONLY extract the postal-code
- [17:33:15] <briansuda>
because you could have...
- [17:33:31] <mkaply>
But if I had both pieces of data, the "adr" and the postal code, and I were sending to an information resource like google maps that allows a free form address, should I send both pieces of information?
- [17:33:32] <briansuda>
<p class="adr">please send all packages to <span class="postal-code">78641</span></p>
- [17:33:57] <briansuda>
because there is no requirement that ONLY address data be children of ADR
- [17:34:00] <mkaply>
ok. So adr as text should really only exist if there are no children
- [17:34:11] <briansuda>
in a strict sense yes,
- [17:34:30] <mkaply>
In my context, where I could pass adr to say google maps, I would only want it if there were no children
- [17:34:32] <monkinetic>
mkaply: hcard w/ photo: http://redmonk.net/about-this-site/
- [17:34:36] <briansuda>
now if you want to TRY and do hueristics, and extract other data, more power to you, but you could get false-positives
- [17:35:14] <briansuda>
well, if there are no children you could TRY, or just do nothing?
- [17:35:15] <mkaply>
briansuda: no interest in that. With international addresses, that would be next to impossible
- [17:35:33] <mkaply>
monkinetic: photo/logo support added (all I do is store it)
- [17:35:53] <briansuda>
even with international addresses, the postal-code and city are sometimes flipped, so you will have to even reformat the structured data for google maps
- [17:35:55] <monkinetic>
mkaply: yeah, that's fine, just so we can debug the uF and see that it was correctly parsed
- [17:36:08] <mkaply>
monkinetic: I'm going to store adr information in the structure if adr has NO children, but that's all. I might make google maps and yahoo work with free format adr
- [17:36:32] * mkaply hopes google maps is smart enough to figure that out :)
- [17:36:57] * monkinetic tsks tsks at KevinMarks: technorati has no hcards on http://technorati.com/blogs/http%3A%2F%2Fredmonk.net <-- was looking for LOGO support
- [17:37:13] <monkinetic>
mkaply: again, that's fine
- [17:38:17] * pecus (n=pecus@194.65.5.235) Quit ()
- [17:38:18] * sreynen (n=sreynen@12-217-44-131.client.mchsi.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [17:38:23] <monkinetic>
KevinMarks: i take it back - http://technorati.com/profile/monkinetic is the more canonical page and is marked up.
- [17:38:26] <monkinetic>
but still no logo support
- [17:38:44] <monkinetic>
>:-)
- [17:39:11] <Baristo>
Hi folks!
- [17:39:14] <briansuda>
i always think of LOGOs for a company and PHOTO for a person
- [17:39:35] <briansuda>
the tricky thing with PHOTO and LOGO is that very few address books support them
- [17:39:46] <briansuda>
and the ones that do, do not support LOGO/PHOTO as a URL
- [17:39:53] <monkinetic>
briansuda: i would have as well, but i asked here yesterday about avatar support, and ryan king advised me to use LOGO)
- [17:39:56] <mkaply>
briansuda: yeah. I just tried with outlook
- [17:40:12] <monkinetic>
hm, what about data urls?
- [17:40:15] <mkaply>
monkinetic: can you give me a no children address example? I'm too lazy to do one up real quick
- [17:40:27] <mkaply>
I doubt it.
- [17:40:27] <briansuda>
the data uri seems to work with the apple address book
- [17:40:33] <mkaply>
wow. That's impressive
- [17:40:44] <monkinetic>
data uri's PWN
- [17:40:53] <briansuda>
well, X2V converts the data uri into BASE64 into the LOGO portion of vCard
- [17:42:00] <mkaply>
briansuda: so you should grab the image from the url, encode64 it and embed it :)
- [17:42:08] <monkinetic>
gah. "Microsoft's Internet Explorer, as of versions 6 and 7, lacks support." <-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data:_URI_scheme
- [17:43:08] <briansuda>
mkaply, that is what i do, luckily for the data: you already BASE64 things, so it is just a split after the first ':' and take that data for the vCard
- [17:44:49] <monkinetic>
this is the bomb:
- [17:44:56] * monkinetic (i=redmonk@bia.crschmidt.net) Quit (Excess Flood)
- [17:45:31] <mkaply>
ha
- [17:46:02] * monkinetic (i=redmonk@bia.crschmidt.net) has joined #microformats
- [17:46:08] <monkinetic>
damnit. sorry
- [17:46:17] <mkaply>
monkinetic: two microformats on your about page. Dude
- [17:46:24] * mkaply goes to resolve duplicate vcards
- [17:46:35] <monkinetic>
sorry, one's in the sidebar
- [17:46:41] <monkinetic>
so it shows up on any way
- [17:46:45] <monkinetic>
any page, i mean
- [17:48:29] <mkaply>
Maybe I should put org after a name whenever I find duplicates. Hmm
- [17:48:40] <mkaply>
Right now I only do that on incldues
- [17:50:31] <Atamido>
I am using LOGO and PHOTO in a mapping app where LOGO shows the store's logo (usually from their website), and PHOTO shows a picture of their store front.
- [17:51:44] * bear_afk is now known as bear
- [17:52:00] * mustaqila_ (n=moose@last.fm/staff/Muz) Quit (Connection timed out)
- [17:52:18] <monkinetic>
Atamido: clever
- [17:52:32] <Atamido>
monkinetic: I have seen data URI submitted as bug test cases for Firefox. That is _not_ a good use. :P
- [17:52:56] <monkinetic>
Atamido: heh, no
- [17:53:26] <Atamido>
Encoding a webpage as a data URI should be punishable with a thousand lashings of a wet noodle.
- [17:54:21] <mkaply>
monkinetic: what was that magnolia page with multiple of the same vcards?
- [17:54:52] <monkinetic>
hm.
- [17:55:29] <mkaply>
I think it was your link page or something like that
- [17:55:31] <monkinetic>
http://ma.gnolia.com/html/hreview/people/steveivy/
- [17:55:40] <monkinetic>
that's one
- [17:56:14] <briansuda>
Atamido, one good use of Data URI would be for something like an S5 HTML presentation. All the CSS, images, js, are in a single HTML file. No broken links, no zipping files, or emailing multiple attachements. It is just a single working file with everything self contained
- [17:57:42] <Atamido>
briansuda: Sure, embedding data URIs inside of a webpage is good. Having only a data URI of a webpage is not. ;)
- [17:58:18] <briansuda>
probably not, but that is sure one way to obfuscate an email address!
- [18:00:46] <Atamido>
data:text/html;charset=utf-8,%3Chtml%3E%3Cbody%3E%3Cp%20style%3D%22text-decoration%3Ablink%3Bcolor%3Ared%3B%22%3EMoo!%3C%2Fp%3E%3C%2Fbody%3E%3C%2Fhtml%3E%0D%0A
- [18:02:03] <briansuda>
red Moo!, works fine in Safari!
- [18:02:30] <Atamido>
Congratulations, we've just invented HTTP over IRC.
- [18:03:10] <Atamido>
Now to patent it and make lots of money.
- [18:03:23] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
- [18:03:32] <monkinetic>
aaaagh! teh blink!
- [18:03:59] * Atamido wonders why IE doesn't support the precious <blinken>.
- [18:05:19] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [18:05:19] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
- [18:05:58] <Atamido>
Just remember, it could always be worse. data:text/html;charset=utf-8,%3Chtml%3E%3Cbody%3E%3Cp%20style%3D%22text-decoration%3Ablink%3Bcolor%3Ared%3Bfont-size%3A350px%3Bfont-weight%3Abold%3B%22%3EMoo!%3C%2Fp%3E%3C%2Fbody%3E%3C%2Fhtml%3E%0D%0A
- [18:06:55] <Atamido>
Bleh, I can't wait for the reflow branch to bring us FF users nicely anti-aliased fonts.
- [18:07:15] * bergie (n=bergie@c-1e20e353.1050-1-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has joined #microformats
- [18:07:39] <Atamido>
Oooh, I think I'll fix my web app so that it actually validates.
- [18:08:12] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@c-1e20e353.1050-1-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) has joined #microformats
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- [18:11:19] <mkaply>
monkinetic: ok. duplicate removakl
- [18:11:35] <mkaply>
monkinetic: that page resolves down to one steve ivy
- [18:11:49] <monkinetic>
nice, how'd you do it?
- [18:12:23] <mkaply>
monkinetic: when I see the displayname is the same, I do a for loop through all the members of the class and create one big concatenated string
- [18:12:33] <mkaply>
If that string is == between two objects, they are exactly the same
- [18:12:39] <monkinetic>
nice
- [18:13:03] <mkaply>
The only downside (if you can call it that) is that highlighting from the menu won't work
- [18:13:40] <mkaply>
weird. it highlights the fourth one
- [18:14:35] <mkaply>
Should I sort the microformats on all pages? Or is there any reason to have them in page order.
- [18:14:44] <mkaply>
I have to sort to remove duplicates. I guess I should make everything sort now.
- [18:20:18] <Baristo>
Hey folks, how's the day going for everyone?
- [18:21:49] <Ronnos>
slowly Baristo :P
- [18:22:13] <Baristo>
Ah sorry to hear Ronnos, I just got to work myself.
- [18:22:40] <mkaply>
can't remove eventful.com duplicates. Ah well.
- [18:22:44] <Ronnos>
ah well, the weekend started here just 1,5 hour ago
- [18:22:46] <Baristo>
But I'm pretty jazzed, I just formed a partnership with a developer and we're getting to work on a new community site.
- [18:23:06] <Baristo>
Going to be implementing MF throughout. :)
- [18:23:26] <Ronnos>
a community site, a good place to start implementing MF indeed :)
- [18:24:11] <Baristo>
Definitely. XFN, hCard, hReview, voting, etc. You name it, I'll be implementing it.
- [18:24:41] <Ronnos>
well, don't overdo it
- [18:24:59] <Baristo>
Oh sure. It will go where it needs to, and everywhere else it won't.
- [18:24:59] <Baristo>
:)
- [18:25:00] <Ronnos>
better implement 1 format correct
- [18:25:02] <Ronnos>
;)
- [18:25:09] <Ronnos>
than implement 5 corrupt :)
- [18:25:12] <Baristo>
Hehe
- [18:25:22] <Baristo>
We'll be starting with hCard.
- [18:25:46] <Ronnos>
what kind of community will it be?
- [18:26:34] <Baristo>
Sort of a coffee/cafe enthusiest site.
- [18:26:59] <Ronnos>
like the idea
- [18:27:43] <Baristo>
Thanks! We're keeping the site's scope pretty narrow at first, but we already have a couple release versions planned out.
- [18:28:02] <Ronnos>
a website is never finished :)
- [18:28:13] <Baristo>
That's what I love about them. :)
- [18:28:59] <Baristo>
I was actually curious if you or anyone else has had success implementing MT with Haml markup?
- [18:29:14] <Baristo>
It seems to be a great way to implement MT.
- [18:29:22] <Baristo>
For templating sites.
- [18:29:41] <Ronnos>
hm, nope
- [18:30:19] <Baristo>
Ah no worries. Have you heard of Haml?
- [18:30:51] <Ronnos>
little bit, but can't find any spare time to fill with reading a bit more about it
- [18:31:44] <Baristo>
I was introduced to it last night by my partner.
- [18:31:48] <Baristo>
I love it. :)
- [18:32:07] <Ronnos>
:)
- [18:32:08] <Baristo>
So much more straightforward than RHTML. :)
- [18:32:15] <Ronnos>
it's great to be in love :)
- [18:32:18] <Baristo>
Haha
- [18:32:38] <Baristo>
I'm more in love with our planned community. I need to be! :D
- [18:32:49] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12675 * RobCrowther * (+102) New Examples -
- [18:33:03] <Ronnos>
haha
- [18:33:26] <Baristo>
I'm sure we'll be doing some closed beta testing in a couple months so we'll be sure to keep the MT crowd up to speed. :)
- [18:33:52] <Ronnos>
:)
- [18:35:47] <Ronnos>
when do you 2 start?
- [18:35:48] * ajturner (n=irc@d14-69-228-190.try.wideopenwest.com) Quit (Client Quit)
- [18:36:10] <Baristo>
Yesterday. Hehe
- [18:36:34] <Ronnos>
why didn't you told us the day before yesterday???
- [18:37:09] <Baristo>
Hmm... good question. :)
- [18:37:19] <Ronnos>
well, keep us informed :)
- [18:37:50] <Baristo>
Definitely. This weekend we're hammering out business details and such. Then starts the frameworking and early teaser site. :)
- [18:38:24] <Ronnos>
is there a name for the community?
- [18:38:53] <Baristo>
We haven't settled 100% on the name yet, but we're about 95% sure. :)
- [18:39:26] <Ronnos>
:)
- [18:39:47] <Baristo>
We're also deciding on if we need a separate "Doing business as" name for ourselves, or if we're just going to use our site name as our partnership.
- [18:40:51] <Baristo>
While the former allows for easy recognition, that could lead to future site plan issues when building them out.
- [18:41:18] <Ronnos>
tur
- [18:41:20] <Ronnos>
tru
- [18:41:37] <Baristo>
Site X by Company X => Site Y by Company X, makes for confusing situations. :)
- [18:42:00] <Baristo>
I'd rather be Company Z making sites X and Y. :)
- [18:42:32] <Ronnos>
tru, but don't put an X on your hCard, that will be confusing too ;)
- [18:42:53] <Baristo>
Exactly.
- [18:42:57] <Baristo>
Only Z.
- [18:42:59] <Baristo>
:)
- [18:43:11] <Baristo>
Company Z, have a site for company Z as well.
- [18:43:39] <Baristo>
Just a one page "info" page with a link to site X. and a quick blurb about the two of us. haha
- [18:43:48] <Ronnos>
well, that's a lot of work, better start the day before tomorrow!
- [18:43:51] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
- [18:44:28] <Baristo>
Seriously!
- [18:44:38] <Baristo>
I should have gotten this done -24 hours ago!
- [18:44:51] <Baristo>
Wait, that means tomorrow.
- [18:44:55] <Baristo>
It was a late night.
- [18:44:56] <Baristo>
haha
- [18:46:59] * charles_r (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
- [18:47:05] <Baristo>
Coming up with a company name though will take a bit longer than our community name. The community name was naturally easy. :)
- [18:48:34] * evanpro_ (n=evanpro@207.134.56.158) has joined #microformats
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- [18:49:07] <Baristo>
What sort of work do you engage in Ronnos?
- [18:49:35] <Ronnos>
well, i don't think being a student is really working ^^
- [18:49:41] <Ronnos>
but hey, at least i try :P
- [18:50:26] <Baristo>
Hehe, I was one of those for way too many years. Finally graduated last June.
- [18:50:48] <Ronnos>
but i started as a programmer like person, and now i'm trying to be more like a User Interface / Interaction kind of guy
- [18:51:29] * briansuda (n=briansud@bokd083.rhi.hi.is) Quit ("off to find some food")
- [18:51:29] <Ronnos>
so, maybe that's why i like microformats :)
- [18:51:41] <Ronnos>
it's in the code, but for the user :)
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- [18:52:42] <Baristo>
Yeah it's great stuff. I did my degree in HCI and I would have loved to know about MF in college.
- [18:53:03] <Baristo>
I'd love to work towards a MSIM (MS in Information Management) and do a thesis on MF.
- [18:53:14] * bengee (n=bengee@82.207.128.166) Quit ("Leaving")
- [18:53:28] <Ronnos>
well, i've read that somebody's going to publish a book about them, comming out around march
- [18:53:39] <Ronnos>
\o/
- [18:54:11] <Baristo>
Great!
- [18:54:57] <Ronnos>
jup
- [18:55:15] <Baristo>
I wish I was in San Fran, I would have loved to attend the dinner last night.
- [18:55:53] <Ronnos>
lol, i'm in Holland, no MF conferences or meetings up here :)
- [18:56:19] <Baristo>
Hehe. But you have Europe! I definitely see myself living their someday, if not the San Fran bay area.
- [18:56:48] <Ronnos>
:)
- [18:57:58] <Ronnos>
i really love the fact that there are comming tools available so that people can start using MF's
- [18:59:02] <Ronnos>
implementing is one thing, getting people to start using them is something different :)
- [19:00:18] <Baristo>
Yeah. I figure with our community site, get everything in place and ready for the revolution. :)
- [19:00:53] * nstrich (n=nostrich@host81-132-107-205.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
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- [19:03:58] * gsnedders hates the term "MF" - it's not megaformats.
- [19:04:32] <mkaply>
monkinetic: duplicate removal without sorting. Sweet. (I wasn't sure if people wanted things sorted)
- [19:05:53] <Ronnos>
there is no microsign on my keyboard gsnedders
- [19:05:54] <Ronnos>
:(
- [19:06:09] <gsnedders>
it's not a sign, it's a greek letter
- [19:06:14] <Ronnos>
lol
- [19:06:27] <Baristo>
Okay gsnedders mF. :)
- [19:06:37] <Ronnos>
well, i don't have a greek keyboard either :P
- [19:06:45] <gsnedders>
it's not miniformats either
- [19:06:51] <gsnedders>
*milliformat
- [19:06:57] <gsnedders>
*milliformats
- [19:07:07] <Baristo>
Alright alright. You're a tough cookie.
- [19:07:18] * Baristo looks around for his micro symbol.
- [19:07:31] <gsnedders>
µF
- [19:07:31] <Ronnos>
it's not a symbol
- [19:07:35] <Ronnos>
it's a greek letter
- [19:07:37] <Ronnos>
:)
- [19:07:37] <gsnedders>
it's Mu!
- [19:07:45] <Baristo>
µF
- [19:07:51] <gsnedders>
12th letter of the greek alphabet
- [19:08:01] <Baristo>
Yeah, that one gsnedders.
- [19:08:02] <Baristo>
:)
- [19:08:16] <Baristo>
I had to copy and paste it, not on my Mac. :(
- [19:08:34] <Baristo>
And I'm horrible with alt-key combos.
- [19:08:52] <monkinetic>
mkaply: most excellent
- [19:08:54] <gsnedders>
it's alt+m on OS X
- [19:09:57] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [19:09:57] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [19:10:17] <gsnedders>
but I've kinda dragged us offtopic
- [19:11:40] * sreynen_ (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) has joined #microformats
- [19:12:59] <Baristo>
:)
- [19:13:01] <Baristo>
No worries. :)
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- [19:29:09] <mfbot>
[[events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner&diff=0&oldid=12676 * Tantek * (-668) updated for post event
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- [19:49:36] <mkaply>
tantek: are you doing the microformats talk at SXSW?
- [19:51:33] <tantek>
yes
- [19:51:54] * mkaply ponders asking to go to SXSW niteractive
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- [19:53:06] <evanpro>
mkaply: you don't have to ask permission
- [19:53:09] <evanpro>
you can just go
- [19:53:16] <mkaply>
evanpro: I want IBM to pay for it :)
- [19:53:20] <evanpro>
B-)
- [19:53:45] <evanpro>
Ask if you can go to the film, music, _and_ interactive conferences
- [19:54:05] <evanpro>
Then, when they call you crazy, _just_ going to SxSWi is a reasonable fallback position
- [19:54:11] * markp (n=chatzill@adsl-150-136-228.rmo.bellsouth.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [19:54:17] * Atamido went to SXSW once with Xiph, but hasn't been back since.
- [19:54:33] <Atamido>
Funny, because I only live a few miles from the convention center. :P
- [19:54:42] <evanpro>
Nice
- [19:54:54] <Atamido>
I have a few quick questions about hCard.
- [19:55:49] <Atamido>
Well, more specifically about hcard, Brian's X2V, and Outlook.
- [19:56:14] <Atamido>
The page in question is here: http://portal.beecavetexas.com/maps.php?method=details&cat=2&loc=2
- [19:57:32] <Atamido>
Brian's tool outputs "NAME:The City of Bee Cave\, Texas ", is this part of the vCard's content or the header?
- [19:58:20] <mkaply>
Atamido: That's the title of the page
- [19:58:24] <mkaply>
in the header
- [19:58:33] <Atamido>
It also outputs "N;CHARSET=utf-8:;;;;" Shouldn't it be copying the FN information into the N if N is not explicitly defined?
- [19:58:45] <mkaply>
nope, it's a business, so there isn't an N
- [19:59:05] <Atamido>
Heh, Outlook copies it to the N.
- [19:59:13] * mkaply tries with Operator
- [19:59:29] <Atamido>
There is a semicolon after ORG, but not FN, does that matter?
- [20:01:03] <mkaply>
Atamido: that's because org can be two things - org name;org unit
- [20:01:15] <mkaply>
if you only have name, it gets passed as orgname;
- [20:01:20] <mkaply>
org unit is blank
- [20:01:38] <Atamido>
The URL field is copied into Outlook's URL;HOME:, which is not displayed at all in Outlook. The "Web page address:" box in Outlook is copied to "URL;WORK:". Is there a way to state URL;WORK: in hCard?
- [20:03:21] * mkaply needs brian for that question
- [20:03:35] <mkaply>
I didn't realize there was a way to distinguise WORK and HOME URLs in a VCF
- [20:03:53] <mkaply>
that means there should be a "type" for URLs?
- [20:03:57] <mkaply>
tantek?
- [20:04:57] <mkaply>
Aramido: You also should mark the adr type as work
- [20:10:07] <Atamido>
It doesn't look like the RFC includes a "type" for URL.
- [20:10:25] <Atamido>
What other fields are there for ADR?
- [20:10:46] <Atamido>
What is with the two semi-colors?
- [20:11:23] <mkaply>
You could have given country
- [20:11:45] <mkaply>
don't worry about the blank semicolons. That's just a formatting thing internally
- [20:12:06] * JMulder (n=me@ip9135c771.speed.planet.nl) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [20:12:06] * JMulder_ is now known as JMulder
- [20:12:18] <Atamido>
So no extra fields before the street address?
- [20:14:27] <mkaply>
post office box and extended address - they aren't needed in your case
- [20:15:11] <tantek>
mkaply - I'm out to lunch bbiab
- [20:15:19] <mkaply>
tantek: no prob
- [20:16:19] <Atamido>
http://pastebin.ca/321853
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- [20:17:50] <Atamido>
Oh, and the phone number disappears in Outlook.
- [20:19:02] <mkaply>
atamido: yeah. I saw that. I'm not sure why
- [20:19:15] <mkaply>
Atamido: i would try adding a type
- [20:19:24] <Atamido>
Outlook uses "TEL;WORK;VOICE:(512) 263-0528"
- [20:20:24] <mkaply>
that but TEL: should work as well
- [20:20:50] * Atamido wonders how Outlook manages to not implode.
- [20:21:59] <mkaply>
I can fix that in Operator
- [20:22:04] <mkaply>
We'll have to tell Brian for X2V
- [20:22:35] <Baristo>
Any of you fine folk here use µF with Haml?
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- [20:26:55] <drewinthehead>
greetings
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- [20:28:35] <Baristo>
Hi there drewinthehead.
- [20:29:05] <mkaply>
drewinthehead: So did I miss any functionality you wanted in Operator?
- [20:30:02] <drewinthehead>
to be honest I've not looked at it in a while mkaply
- [20:31:12] <drewinthehead>
brb
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- [20:33:18] <Baristo>
drewinthehead: Have you done and work with Haml and mf?
- [20:33:34] <drewinthehead>
haml? no
- [20:34:46] <Baristo>
Righto. I'm going to be using Haml for an upcoming community site and was wondering if mf had any integration issues with it.
- [20:34:50] <drewinthehead>
I've never used haml. It seems like an abstraction on top of an abstraction.
- [20:35:04] <Baristo>
Heh. :)
- [20:35:18] <Baristo>
XHTML is an abstraction? :)
- [20:35:41] <drewinthehead>
Of sorts, yes
- [20:36:08] <Baristo>
What's your take on it? I'm definitely curious. :)
- [20:36:20] <KevinMarks>
whats haml? You mean yaml?
- [20:36:32] <drewinthehead>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haml
- [20:37:01] <drewinthehead>
it's a method of describing xhtml
- [20:37:30] <KevinMarks>
looks like nevow
- [20:37:35] <Atamido>
I tried adding type work to TEL and ADR, but it doesn't seem to have been picked up by X2V. Am I doing it right? http://portal.beecavetexas.com/maps.php?method=details&cat=2&loc=2
- [20:37:39] <drewinthehead>
looks like crap ;)
- [20:38:12] <drewinthehead>
i'll take a look, Atamido ('crap' comment not aimed at you!)
- [20:38:12] <csarven>
so what are the advantages?
- [20:38:17] <csarven>
i was looking at it this morning
- [20:38:25] <Atamido>
:P
- [20:38:46] <Baristo>
drewinthehead: I'm mostly interested in Haml as an alternative to RHTML templating.
- [20:39:03] <KevinMarks>
http://www.kieranholland.com/code/documentation/nevow-stan/
- [20:39:09] <Baristo>
In day-to-day page publishing, I'd never use Haml. :)
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- [20:39:49] <Baristo>
Ah hey there KevinMarks. How was the dinner?
- [20:39:49] <drewinthehead>
Atamido: you have 'address' instead of 'adr'
- [20:40:04] <drewinthehead>
wait, no you don't :)
- [20:40:17] <Atamido>
Oops, looks like TYPE isn't a child of ADR.
- [20:40:22] <KevinMarks>
I missed most fo the dinner due to server wrangling, but had some nice chats over drinks afterwards
- [20:40:54] <drewinthehead>
for TEL, Atamido, you need to have TEL as a parent of TYPE and VALUE
- [20:41:06] <Baristo>
Great!
- [20:41:12] <Atamido>
I need VALUE?
- [20:41:18] <Baristo>
When are you folks doing something in Seattle KevinMarks? :)
- [20:41:22] <drewinthehead>
if you use TYPE, yes
- [20:41:43] <drewinthehead>
you can do just <span class="tel">1233456778</span>
- [20:42:19] <drewinthehead>
or <span class="tel"><span class="type">Fax</span>: <span class="value">1234567889</span></span>
- [20:42:45] <drewinthehead>
so if you want to use a TYPE, you need to pair it with VALUE, both inside of TEL
- [20:42:53] <mkaply>
drewinthehead: It appears that outlook rejects TEL:512-551-1212 without a type
- [20:43:08] <mkaply>
at least outlook 2003
- [20:43:18] <drewinthehead>
people still use outlook? ;)
- [20:43:57] <drewinthehead>
I dunno though, I'm not too concerned with how a given piece of software deals with VCARDs
- [20:44:05] <drewinthehead>
useful tip though
- [20:44:11] * bear is now known as bear_afk
- [20:44:21] <drewinthehead>
brb - needed in the kitchen!
- [20:45:11] <Atamido>
Okay, how about now?
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- [20:46:57] <mkaply>
Atamido: type is still wrong
- [20:47:23] <mkaply>
hmm
- [20:47:50] <mkaply>
basically your type isn't displayable, so you want a type but nothing on the screen. hold on
- [20:48:16] <Atamido>
The examples say you can use title=""
- [20:48:26] <Atamido>
But it doesn't seem to get picked up.
- [20:49:30] <mkaply>
title only works for an abbr
- [20:49:30] <mkaply>
like
- [20:49:31] <mkaply>
<abbr class="type" title="work">Address:</abbr>
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- [20:49:56] <Atamido>
http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-examples#3.2.1_ADR_Type_Definition
- [20:50:06] <Atamido>
Moo.
- [20:50:17] <Atamido>
You're right.
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- [20:50:25] <mkaply>
you could also add something like this (kind of ugly)
- [20:50:26] <mkaply>
<img class="type" alt="work">
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- [20:50:41] <mkaply>
and take the class="type" away from the other address
- [20:51:13] <mkaply>
Unfortunately, it's difficult to do a non visible element in this case and keep it symantically correct
- [20:51:18] <Atamido>
<span class="type" style="display:none;">work</span>
- [20:51:37] <mkaply>
Yes, that will work as well. But then you will start the "should microformat stuff be hidden" debat
- [20:51:40] <mkaply>
:)
- [20:51:57] * Atamido hopes tantek doesn't notice.
- [20:55:52] <Atamido>
Okay, I changed them to ABBR and now it seems to work.
- [20:55:54] <mkaply>
I'm not a big fan of the abbr pattern simply because I end up with underlind stuff in my content
- [20:55:59] <mkaply>
but that's just me
- [20:56:12] <kingryan>
abbr { outline: none}
- [20:56:36] <Atamido>
What is with the "=0D=0A" in this? "LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:12400 Hwy 71 West=0D=0ABee Cave, Tx 78736"
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- [20:59:27] <Atamido>
OGM, Outlook 2003 actually adds in Carriage Return and Line Feed into the address instead of seperating out the city, state, zip.
- [20:59:36] <Atamido>
Bad Outlook.
- [20:59:52] * Atamido slaps Outlook around some with a trout.
- [21:00:18] <mkaply>
bleah
- [21:00:50] <mkaply>
Atamido: I would definitely use that CSS kingryan posted to remove the decoration from the ABBR tag
- [21:00:55] <mkaply>
Thjat would make the page look cleaner
- [21:00:58] <mkaply>
also Tx->TX
- [21:01:25] * lhalff (n=lhalff@218.185.75.132) Quit (Client Quit)
- [21:01:26] <mkaply>
Bee Cave Police Cars look just like Leander!
- [21:01:30] <Atamido>
Meh, I'm no page designer. I don't think it will look good no matter what i do to it.
- [21:01:35] * lhalff (n=lhalff@218.185.75.132) has joined #microformats
- [21:01:39] <kingryan>
or you can scope the CSS: .vcard abbr, .vevent abbr, ... {outline: none}
- [21:01:55] * lhalff (n=lhalff@218.185.75.132) Quit (Client Quit)
- [21:02:37] <Atamido>
mkaply: Shhhh! Don't tell anyone that we just copy everyone elses designs for our PD. (Also, all form, documentation, policies, etc for our PD were lifted from other police departments.) :P
- [21:03:36] <mkaply>
Atamido: seriosly
- [21:03:42] <mkaply>
http://www.ci.leander.tx.us/images/policecar.jpg
- [21:07:25] * sreynen_ (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [21:08:53] <Atamido>
List of Outlook irregularities:
- [21:08:54] <Atamido>
1. Copies FN into N
- [21:08:56] <Atamido>
2. Drops TEL without TYPE
- [21:08:58] <Atamido>
3. TEL;TYPE=work: is changed to TEL;WORK;VOICE:
- [21:08:59] <Atamido>
4. URL is changed to URL;HOME: and is not visible anywhere normally in Outlook.
- [21:09:01] <Atamido>
5. ADR is changed to ADR;POSTAL:
- [21:09:02] <Atamido>
6. ADR is copied to LABEL;POSTAL;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE: with city/state/zip changed to use carriage return and comma seperation.
- [21:09:04] <Atamido>
7. Drops GEO:
- [21:09:10] <Atamido>
mkaply: You live in Leander?
- [21:09:19] <kingryan>
Atamido: please document on http://microformats.org/wiki/vcard-implementations
- [21:09:22] <mkaply>
Atamido: yep
- [21:09:33] <Atamido>
mkaply: Are you a teacher?
- [21:10:03] <mkaply>
Atamido: nope, I work for IBM
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- [21:13:14] * Atamido seems to remember a teacher in leander asking about mf.
- [21:19:30] <tantek>
Atamido - please be very specific about which *version* of Outlook on which operating system *version* as well in your documentation.
- [21:19:33] <kingryan>
any mailman experts in here?
- [21:20:12] <Baristo>
Not here kingryan, sorry. :(
- [21:21:09] * tantek chastises Atamido for use of display:none on semantic information.
- [21:21:28] * kingryan is trying to figure out how to show/hide lists on http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo
- [21:21:59] <Baristo>
tantek: There isn't much info on Haml and mf usage. Would you need/like a wiki section for it?
- [21:22:07] <Atamido>
tantek: I ended up using ABBR, except on GEO where that information is really just for the JavaScript and doesn't need to be user visible anyway. :)
- [21:24:12] * charlie_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
- [21:24:23] <KevinMarks>
if it's just fro javascript, why not use JSON - declare it as a script variable
- [21:26:41] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) Quit (Connection timed out)
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- [21:28:06] <Atamido>
KevinMarks: Because it might be useful to someone's vCard?
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- [21:34:24] * bear_afk is now known as bear
- [21:35:59] * mkaply finally remembered where title is used besides abbr
- [21:36:40] <mkaply>
ok, so everyone keeps saying that the only thing that uses title is <abbr title="foo">bar</abbr>
- [21:36:52] <mkaply>
but xfolk uses title= for an alternate text in a link
- [21:37:38] <mkaply>
<A class="taggedlink" rel="nofollow" title="alternate title" href="http://www.cosmeticsurgery.ws/reconstructive_surgery/plastic_surgery/09/eyelid-scrub-in-manhattan/">Eyelid Scrub in Manhattan</A></DIV>
- [21:38:59] <mfbot>
[[vcard-implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vcard-implementations&diff=0&oldid=12677 * Atamido * (+952) Microsoft Outlook -
- [21:39:16] <kingryan>
thanks Atamido
- [21:39:35] <Atamido>
http://microformats.org/wiki/vcard-implementations#Microsoft_Outlook_2003
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- [21:42:10] <mfbot>
[[vcard-implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vcard-implementations&diff=0&oldid=12678 * Atamido * (+45) Microsoft Outlook 2003 -
- [21:43:26] * StevieBM (n=StevieBM@dsl-62-3-104-102.zen.co.uk) has joined #microformats
- [21:44:57] <mkaply>
IS the title attribute only relevant for links in xFolk?
- [21:47:16] <mfbot>
[[vcard-implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vcard-implementations&diff=0&oldid=12679 * Atamido * (+114) LOGO -
- [21:48:22] <mfbot>
[[vcard-implementations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vcard-implementations&diff=0&oldid=12680 * Atamido * (+18) GEO -
- [21:49:49] * mkaply wonders where http://de.lirio.us/ went
- [21:51:49] <mfbot>
[[vcard-implementations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vcard-implementations&diff=0&oldid=12681 * Atamido * (+66) N - distinction
- [21:52:15] <Atamido>
All sorts of wonky stuff in Outlook.
- [21:52:29] <Atamido>
I need to hurry up and get a copy of Outlook 2003.
- [21:52:34] <Atamido>
*2007
- [21:58:15] <mfbot>
[[events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner&diff=0&oldid=12682 * Tantek * (+111) updates and links
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