IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-01-29
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [02:26:16] <mfbot>
[[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=13023 * PeNGo * (+1462) Wikipedia - more detailed
- [02:27:10] * tantek (n=tantek@cpe-76-169-70-203.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
- [02:27:10] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [02:56:50] <jnbdzjnbdz_>
hi
- [02:57:18] <jnbdzjnbdz_>
i ave a question is there a microformat for basic web pages?
- [02:57:39] * veeliam (n=veeliam@207.111.252.10) has joined #microformats
- [02:57:39] <jibot>
veeliam is William Lawrence <http://zaxbypass.com>
- [03:00:23] * jnbdzjnbdz_ is now known as jnbdzjnbdzjnbdz
- [03:00:36] <jnbdzjnbdzjnbdz>
i ave a question is there a microformat for basic web pages?
- [03:06:21] * tantek (n=tantek@cpe-76-169-70-203.socal.res.rr.com) Quit ()
- [03:07:22] * ajturner (n=ajturner@d14-69-64-67.try.wideopenwest.com) Quit ()
- [03:08:29] <veeliam>
I think what you'd be looking for is "rel-bookmark"
- [03:10:41] <veeliam>
so, jnbdzjnbdzjnbdz, check that out on the wiki and see if that'll serve your needs
- [03:11:20] <jnbdzjnbdzjnbdz>
ok
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- [03:28:08] <jnbdzjnbdzjnbdz>
its not what i was realy looking for but it is interesting...
- [03:29:16] <jnbdzjnbdzjnbdz>
im looking for a microformat, that tels you what is the main menu where is the footer, where the header is
- [03:30:22] <jnbdzjnbdzjnbdz>
imagine your blinde you could say to your computer tell me what is in the main menu
- [03:32:23] <jnbdzjnbdzjnbdz>
or people that access your web site would be able to control the way the page shows, they could tell the browser don't load the css just the main content or only the main menu
- [03:33:54] <jnbdzjnbdzjnbdz>
or imagine certain people are more at ease when the web site is shown in a certain way they could be able to control the way the content shows
- [03:35:13] * charlie_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
- [03:36:20] <jnbdzjnbdzjnbdz>
but the reason im realy looking for this is for my web app that needs to know what is the main menu and the content of the page to give the n-user better control over there page
- [03:38:53] <jnbdzjnbdzjnbdz>
the other reason is imagine some body looks up your site whit a very old browser and becose it as bad support for css it shows in a unredable way, you cood create for all your site a basic style that when a older browser loads the page it gets only your basic style
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- [03:49:05] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13024 * PeNGo * (+3960) my own comments
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- [03:52:06] <mfbot>
[[User:PeNGo]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:PeNGo * PeNGo * (+112)
- [03:52:27] <mfbot>
[[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=13025 * PeNGo * (+47) Contributors -
- [03:54:18] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl081-055-106.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [03:59:39] <factoryjoe>
anyone here have thoughts on xfn scoping?
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- [04:16:54] <factoryjoe>
KevinMarks: ping
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- [05:17:00] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [05:26:46] <mfbot>
[[User:DerrickPallas]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:DerrickPallas * DerrickPallas * (+1153) initial edit
- [05:34:04] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
- [05:34:04] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [07:08:42] <jibot>
Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
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- [07:13:51] <mfbot>
[[User:DerrickPallas]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:DerrickPallas&diff=0&oldid=13026 * DerrickPallas * (+702) Derrick Pallas -
- [07:42:02] * bengee (n=bengee@82.207.128.166) has joined #microformats
- [07:42:03] <jibot>
bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
- [07:55:37] * tantek (n=tantek@cpe-76-169-70-203.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
- [07:55:37] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [07:55:37] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [08:17:53] <factoryjoe>
tantek:
- [08:17:55] <factoryjoe>
you here?
- [08:18:06] <tantek>
no i am a meat popsicle.
- [08:18:13] <factoryjoe>
this is true
- [08:18:21] <factoryjoe>
i have a question about xfn
- [08:18:28] <factoryjoe>
a couple actually
- [08:18:35] <KevinMarks>
it can't be that cold in LA can it?
- [08:19:36] <factoryjoe>
how do you mix up hcard + xfn
- [08:19:55] <factoryjoe>
a different way
- [08:20:08] <factoryjoe>
xfn links should be embeddable in hcards
- [08:20:13] <tantek>
see http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-examples for the answer to that question
- [08:20:25] <factoryjoe>
ok
- [08:21:30] <factoryjoe>
hmm
- [08:21:46] <factoryjoe>
i see
- [08:21:50] <factoryjoe>
that's no good
- [08:23:06] <factoryjoe>
crap
- [08:23:22] <factoryjoe>
i need xfn links as decendents of hcards
- [08:24:11] <tantek>
only the destination of an hCard has the authority to do that
- [08:24:31] <tantek>
you don't get to say who your friends friends are - that's one of the fundamental flaws in FOAF - it does not reflect reality
- [08:25:00] <factoryjoe>
i get that
- [08:25:19] <factoryjoe>
i should just write up my proposal and then you can shoot it down
- [08:25:59] <factoryjoe>
xfn is not adequately scoped
- [08:26:27] <tantek>
it's scoped to the URL which represents the person
- [08:26:28] <factoryjoe>
you can't definitively answer the question "who is linking to whom" right now
- [08:26:36] <factoryjoe>
barcamp.wordpress.com
- [08:26:41] <factoryjoe>
there are multiple authors
- [08:26:53] <factoryjoe>
when an author uses XFN, who's linking to whom?
- [08:27:01] <factoryjoe>
ah, then you go to the author post, right?
- [08:27:07] <factoryjoe>
err, author of the post
- [08:27:13] <factoryjoe>
but that's not what XFN says
- [08:27:35] <factoryjoe>
if i link to barcamp.wordpress.com and say rel=me, that's only partially true
- [08:27:52] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
- [08:28:20] <tantek>
XFN is designed for group blogs
- [08:28:26] <tantek>
is NOT designed for group blogs - sorry
- [08:28:32] <factoryjoe>
so, if you try to determine which author is xfn-linking, you can't rely solely on URL
- [08:28:37] <factoryjoe>
mm
- [08:28:38] <factoryjoe>
indeed
- [08:29:21] <factoryjoe>
it's presuming that there's one url per person?
- [08:29:53] <tantek>
it is *modeled* on the 99% behavior of blogs which is one url per person
- [08:30:08] <KevinMarks>
which maps well to OpenID, as we have said
- [08:30:16] <factoryjoe>
which i'm trying to write up
- [08:30:27] <factoryjoe>
but i don't think one URL per person is true for 99% anymore
- [08:30:34] <KevinMarks>
you would refer to Tantek as tantek.com/log
- [08:30:42] <factoryjoe>
yes
- [08:30:43] <KevinMarks>
not one URL per person, one person per URL
- [08:30:44] <tantek>
out of 60m+ blogs? I'd say 99% r still one person
- [08:30:48] <factoryjoe>
or twitter.com/t
- [08:31:04] <tantek>
KevinMarks is correct
- [08:31:13] <KevinMarks>
you wouldn't refer to Cory as boingboing.net, you'd use craphound.com
- [08:31:23] <tantek>
right
- [08:31:24] <factoryjoe>
which is convenient in his case
- [08:31:27] <factoryjoe>
ok
- [08:31:35] <factoryjoe>
but the opposite is what's tricky here
- [08:31:47] <factoryjoe>
what happens when someone on the microformats blog xfn-links to tantek.com?
- [08:31:53] <factoryjoe>
who has the relationship to tantek?
- [08:33:51] <factoryjoe>
?
- [08:33:59] <KevinMarks>
well, if we felt like being bothered we could say it's scoped by hAtom, but thta is a lot of extra work
- [08:34:12] <factoryjoe>
well, that is what i would say
- [08:34:21] <factoryjoe>
why is that a lot of work/
- [08:34:22] <factoryjoe>
?
- [08:35:10] <KevinMarks>
for parser writers; we do that for rel-tag - we deliberately leave the scope loose, and tighten it in hReview etc
- [08:35:36] <KevinMarks>
but that does push against the core of XFN more
- [08:35:47] <factoryjoe>
what does?
- [08:35:51] <tantek>
factoryjoe - add your q's to http://microformats.org/wiki/xfn-issues and we'll figure them out...
- [08:35:59] <factoryjoe>
the core being url to url relationships?
- [08:36:10] <factoryjoe>
tantek: i'm writing them up in a post
- [08:36:14] <factoryjoe>
and then i can add them to the wiki
- [08:36:32] <KevinMarks>
the core being XFN's 80:20 assumption of one person per URL
- [08:36:40] <factoryjoe>
my goal is to get openid + hcard + xfn working together for transcending social networks
- [08:37:10] <factoryjoe>
KevinMarks: that's fine from the destination perspective -- not fine from the originating perspective
- [08:37:34] <factoryjoe>
there are, for example, a lot of planet sites that syndicate blog posts -- if mine got syndicated they'd have XFN links in them
- [08:38:10] <tantek>
factoryjoe - just include concrete URLs to precise examples instead of general statements and we'll take a look at it.
- [08:38:33] <tantek>
and don't worry about writing up a big blog post - just a succinct summary of the issue based on concrete real-world example URLs is sufficient
- [08:38:39] <tantek>
no need to make a big essay out of it
- [08:38:44] <factoryjoe>
too late
- [08:38:47] <tantek>
just keep it simple and we'll solve the problem
- [08:38:49] <tantek>
ttyl
- [08:38:51] * tantek (n=tantek@cpe-76-169-70-203.socal.res.rr.com) Quit ()
- [08:38:53] <factoryjoe>
heh
- [08:39:10] <factoryjoe>
well, i'm still going to post what i have to say
- [08:47:15] <factoryjoe>
KevinMarks: what do you think of enclosing xfn links within hcard?
- [08:48:22] <KevinMarks>
hm, I can see that it might work if you don't put class="url" on them
- [08:48:48] <factoryjoe>
so
- [08:48:54] <factoryjoe>
here's my radical proposal
- [08:49:02] <factoryjoe>
and i know you'll shoot it down
- [08:49:43] <factoryjoe>
but scoping xfn to an hcard could be very useful
- [08:50:02] <factoryjoe>
of course, scoping xfn without the secondary hcards is kind of stupid
- [08:50:14] <factoryjoe>
so really you'd need hcard <- xfn <- hcard
- [08:50:31] <factoryjoe>
but enclosing hcards within hcards has been disallowed
- [08:50:59] <factoryjoe>
but, what if there were one case where you could embed hcards in an hcard?
- [08:51:17] <KevinMarks>
the point of xfn is links between pages
- [08:51:25] <KevinMarks>
without that there is no href for the rel
- [08:51:39] <factoryjoe>
indeed
- [08:51:48] <KevinMarks>
and you are committing the FOAfF bug of asserting info about others
- [08:52:25] <factoryjoe>
i've not intention to assert anything about anyone else
- [08:52:32] <factoryjoe>
except, perhaps, what i think is their url
- [08:52:51] <factoryjoe>
take a look at this: http://factoryjoe.com/hcard.html
- [08:55:16] <KevinMarks>
ah, that makes some sense
- [08:55:17] <factoryjoe>
ok
- [08:55:20] <factoryjoe>
refresh
- [08:55:24] <factoryjoe>
i added tantek
- [08:55:31] <KevinMarks>
you have 2 mets on tara
- [08:55:34] <KevinMarks>
yes, got tantek
- [08:55:35] <factoryjoe>
oops
- [08:55:37] <factoryjoe>
ok
- [08:55:48] <factoryjoe>
fixed
- [08:55:50] <factoryjoe>
so
- [08:55:52] <factoryjoe>
here's the deal
- [08:55:57] <factoryjoe>
i want to make tara an hcard
- [08:56:01] <factoryjoe>
she's a person right?
- [08:56:05] <factoryjoe>
but..
- [08:56:15] <factoryjoe>
if i share this page w/ others
- [08:56:22] <factoryjoe>
how do i scope the relationships?
- [08:56:24] <factoryjoe>
well
- [08:56:30] <factoryjoe>
since a page can only have one address element
- [08:56:37] <factoryjoe>
and the address element refers to the author
- [08:57:01] <factoryjoe>
it seems like you could have *one exception* where you could embed hcards in an address.vcard
- [08:57:28] <factoryjoe>
ok referesh now
- [08:57:48] <factoryjoe>
operator picks up 3 hcards
- [08:58:33] <factoryjoe>
hrm
- [09:00:54] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) has joined #microformats
- [09:00:54] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
- [09:00:56] <factoryjoe>
the problem with that is what happens to xfn links within those hcards
- [09:01:56] <factoryjoe>
grr
- [09:02:03] <factoryjoe>
i don't think i'm going to figure this out now
- [09:02:15] <KevinMarks>
yes, that is awkward, because a non-nesting compliant parser will think tara is your url too
- [09:03:03] <factoryjoe>
well, given what i was trying to do, it'll also think that the xfn links will be from tara's perspective
- [09:03:07] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
- [09:03:07] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
- [09:03:25] <factoryjoe>
ie the xfn links should reflect the relationships of the parent hcard
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- [09:07:05] <factoryjoe>
craptastic
- [09:09:16] <mfbot>
[[rel-examples-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=13027 * ChristopheDucamp * (+329) [fr: ajout thom watson]
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- [09:11:57] <factoryjoe>
oh well -- off for bed
- [09:12:03] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl081-055-106.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
- [09:15:10] * tantek (n=tantek@pool-71-106-142-15.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #microformats
- [09:15:10] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [09:15:10] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [09:17:18] <mfbot>
[[xfn-implementations-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=13028 * ChristopheDucamp * (+72) sync'd wiht original page
- [09:18:14] <mfbot>
[[xfn-implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=13029 * ChristopheDucamp * (+15)
- [09:21:29] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) has joined #microformats
- [09:21:29] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
- [09:22:00] <mfbot>
[[xfn-wants-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/xfn-wants-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+977) traduction de xfn-wants
- [09:25:26] <mfbot>
[[Template:hcard-related-pages-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:hcard-related-pages-fr&diff=0&oldid=13030 * ChristopheDucamp * (+137) updating with vcard suggestion
- [09:39:38] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("rebooting for backup")
- [09:46:53] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-implementations&diff=0&oldid=13031 * Jufemaiz * (+262) Blogging and CMS tools -
- [09:47:39] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-implementations&diff=0&oldid=13032 * Jufemaiz * (+18) Blogging and CMS tools -
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- [10:28:32] <jibot>
julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
- [10:50:36] <KevinMarks>
should've used microformats: http://cellar.org/iotd.php?threadid=13127
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- [11:05:48] <jibot>
Ronnos is Ron Kok, a friendly student Communication and Multimedia Design in The Netherlands
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[[this-week-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/this-week-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+1093)
- [11:11:44] <mfbot>
[[this-week-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=this-week-fr&diff=0&oldid=13033 * ChristopheDucamp * (-1)
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[[this-week-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=this-week-fr&diff=0&oldid=13034 * ChristopheDucamp * (+96)
- [11:23:36] <mfbot>
[[this-week-pending-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/this-week-pending-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+1965)
- [11:24:17] <mfbot>
[[this-week-pending-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=this-week-pending-fr&diff=0&oldid=13035 * ChristopheDucamp * (+15) Cette Semaine en Microformats - Items en attente de publication -
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[[this-week-pending-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=this-week-pending-fr&diff=0&oldid=13036 * ChristopheDucamp * (+169) Voir aussi -
- [11:55:51] <mfbot>
[[this-week-pending-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=this-week-pending-fr&diff=0&oldid=13037 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1)
- [11:57:22] <mfbot>
[[this-week-pending-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=this-week-pending-fr&diff=0&oldid=13038 * ChristopheDucamp * (+156)
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briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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[[this-week-pending-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=this-week-pending-fr&diff=0&oldid=13039 * ChristopheDucamp * (+15)
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- [13:11:42] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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- [13:32:58] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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- [13:40:27] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=13040 * ChristopheDucamp * (+857)
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- [13:41:11] <jibot>
davecardwell is Dave Cardwell of http://davecardwell.co.uk/. He designs webs and generally geeks about in York, England.
- [13:45:29] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-schedule-creator-feedback-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-schedule-creator-feedback-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+1197)
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- [13:50:14] <jibot>
Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
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[[hcard-issues-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=13041 * ChristopheDucamp * (+574)
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- [15:09:05] <jibot>
SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
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- [15:14:11] <jibot>
Kilianvalkhof is Kilian Valkhof, he makes websites and blogs at http://kilianvalkhof.com
- [15:14:29] <Kilianvalkhof>
yah! it finally *knows* me!
- [15:16:13] <owen_e>
:)
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- [15:33:19] <jibot>
ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com
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- [15:33:57] <jibot>
edsu is Ed Summers from the Library of Congress <http://www.inkdroid.org>
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- [15:48:59] <jibot>
mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
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- [16:05:31] <mkaply>
is this valid?
- [16:05:32] <mkaply>
<a class="email" href="mailto:neuroNOSPAM@t37.net">
- [16:05:32] <mkaply>
<span class="type">pref</span><span>erred email</span>
- [16:05:32] <mkaply>
</a>
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- [16:08:46] <davecardwell>
looks it - why do you need the second span though?
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- [16:12:17] <mkaply>
davecardwell: Not sure I do. This was in a test I had. So you can nest a type inside of a parent class? vs. <class="emaiil><type><value></class>?
- [16:14:08] * mkaply wonders if parsing microformats could be made any more difficult
- [16:14:48] <davecardwell>
I think nesting the type inside the parent class is the only way of doing it
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- [16:15:00] <davecardwell>
ala http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#type_subproperty_values
- [16:16:33] <mkaply>
I agree with that, it was more a question of why in that scenario you wouldn't just use class="email" as a container and nest the value as well
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- [16:17:12] <jibot>
TylerR is Tyler Roehmholdt and is brewing up something social at http://mappuccino.com
- [16:18:00] <mkaply>
I'm assuming putting a <span class"value">other email address</span> inside that class="email" is invalid - if someone did, which would be the email that should be taken
- [16:21:11] <mfbot>
[[hcard-issues-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=13042 * ChristopheDucamp * (+527) Problématiques -
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- [16:21:54] <jibot>
julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
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danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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- [17:07:19] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-issues&diff=0&oldid=13043 * Leikam * (+77) Issues - + link to hcal cheatsheet
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- [17:25:54] <DerrickPallas>
In an hCard, in class="email", there is an optional (type,value) pair. If value does not exist, that falls back to the href of the anchor, correct?
- [17:26:10] <DerrickPallas>
Or is it the value of something other than the actual address?
- [17:31:22] <DerrickPallas>
Guess it's too early. :) Time for coffee.
- [17:32:14] <Kilianvalkhof>
it's around beertime here, actually
- [17:32:29] <Kilianvalkhof>
i just don't know the answer :P
- [17:33:28] <DerrickPallas>
It's all good. I went ahead and implemented another mode in XSLT to deal with emails specifically.
- [17:34:30] <DerrickPallas>
Right now, I've got a standard mode (for normal tags), an URL mode that pulls out hrefs (or data or src, depending) and a pair mode that deals with type/values but falls back to standard mode.
- [17:34:50] <DerrickPallas>
Now I've got an urlpair mode that falls back to url instead, which falls back to standard.
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- [17:38:06] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
- [17:43:45] <mkaply>
DerrickPallas: I believe the answer is yes.
- [17:44:22] <mkaply>
DerrickPallas: note that there can still be a type nessted in the anchor, even if the value is separate
- [17:45:03] <DerrickPallas>
I understand.
- [17:45:25] <DerrickPallas>
The mode pulls the type (if it exists) and then attempts to pull the value, falling back to "url" mode.
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- [17:45:44] <jibot>
bewest is Ben West and lives in San Francisco, CA. He daydreams about web style software, works at Alexa.com and blogs at http://bewest.wordpress.com/
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- [17:45:52] <DerrickPallas>
I just wanted to confirm that the value is the href and not text() if class="value" doesn't exist.
- [17:46:04] <bewest>
welcome DerrickPallas :-D
- [17:46:09] <DerrickPallas>
Howdy Ben.
- [17:46:24] * mkaply is in the middle of writing a Javascript microformat parser, so sees the same issues
- [17:46:38] <bewest>
mkaply: from scratch?
- [17:47:16] <bewest>
there's already a few js parsers available. any special reasons you decided to roll your own?
- [17:47:27] <mkaply>
bewest: yeah. I'm working on this idea of being able to descript a microformat using a Javascript structure and then have a generic set of functions that can run against the definition file
- [17:47:33] <bewest>
ah yes
- [17:47:36] <bewest>
I came up with something like that
- [17:47:43] <bewest>
what have you got so far? I'd like to trade notes
- [17:47:53] * bear_afk is now known as bear
- [17:48:07] <DerrickPallas>
Yours is in json, right Ben?
- [17:48:15] <bewest>
kind of
- [17:48:16] <bewest>
http://dichotomize.com/czmap/hcard_structure.js
- [17:48:26] <mkaply>
bewest:http://www.kaply.com/operator/vcard.html
- [17:48:45] <DerrickPallas>
The old Ruby scraper did something similar.
- [17:48:45] <bewest>
I never know what people mean by json now, I think there's an RFC defining json to not include some practices I'm used to
- [17:48:57] <mkaply>
bewest: mine can also contain code to handle special cases and things.
- [17:49:23] <aconbere|work>
I've never understood the distinction of JSON
- [17:49:25] <bewest>
mkaply: neat. what kind of structure have you come up with? anything I could take a peak at?
- [17:49:26] <aconbere|work>
it's just Javascript
- [17:49:33] <mkaply>
bewest: view source on that URL
- [17:49:36] <bewest>
oh
- [17:49:41] * bewest missed the url somehow
- [17:49:41] <aconbere|work>
with defined good practices
- [17:50:22] <aconbere|work>
It would be like saying "good C++" is CON, and not so object oriented C++ was just C++.
- [17:50:53] <aconbere|work>
we don't make distinctions for most languages, why do we for Javascript?
- [17:51:19] <DerrickPallas>
It's Javascript that other languages happen to understand. And it makes all those web interface people feel good when you return data in a form they understand.
- [17:51:47] <bewest>
mkaply: that's an interesting decision to include functions with the data
- [17:52:03] <mkaply>
bewest: YEah. The webcard guy thought of that.
- [17:52:09] <bewest>
mkaply: webcard?
- [17:52:19] <mkaply>
WebCards - it's another microformat extension that is going to be coming out
- [17:52:24] <DerrickPallas>
mkaply: You might take a look http://blog.labnotes.org/2005/11/20/microformat-parser-for-ruby/
- [17:53:11] <DerrickPallas>
Although, I think that library was superceeded by ScrAPI
- [17:53:11] <mkaply>
We're trying to work together on some ideas vs. compete.
- [17:54:17] <aconbere|work>
DerrickPallas: It strikes me as redundant still.
- [17:55:25] <DerrickPallas>
A: perhaps. All I know is that when my back-end services return data, it's easy for me to coax it into a form that Javascript understands. It's harder for the front-end people to parse and transform it.
- [17:56:35] <DerrickPallas>
Really, it's just the LCD.
- [17:56:47] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
- [17:56:51] <DerrickPallas>
Probably not a discussion for this channel, though.
- [17:57:35] <TylerR>
Anyone here attending Web Directions North? :) (besides you speakers that is)
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- [18:07:03] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
- [18:07:05] * vant_ (n=vant@FLH1Abx104.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
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- [18:11:24] <TylerR>
Hey there briansuda.
- [18:11:33] <briansuda>
hello TylerR
- [18:11:42] <TylerR>
How was the weekend?
- [18:13:09] <briansuda>
like it never existed
- [18:13:31] <TylerR>
Ouch, lots of work?
- [18:16:33] <mfbot>
[[hcard-issues-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=13044 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1310)
- [18:17:25] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) Quit ()
- [18:17:56] <briansuda>
just busy with plenty of projects
- [18:19:07] <jcw9>
happy monday
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- [18:21:34] <mfbot>
[[rel-nofollow-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-nofollow-fr&diff=0&oldid=13045 * ChristopheDucamp * (-18)
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- [18:23:31] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
- [18:24:46] <mkaply>
briansuda: vCards appear to have the ability to specify a TYPE (at least when Outlook exports a VCF) - any reason that's not in hCard
- [18:25:01] <briansuda>
it is not part of the RFC
- [18:26:15] <mfbot>
[[Main Page-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=13046 * ChristopheDucamp * (+105)
- [18:28:21] <mfbot>
[[Main Page-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=13047 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1) Brouillons -
- [18:28:35] <mkaply>
briansuda: that's kind of sad. URL needs a type field so bad
- [18:28:56] <briansuda>
yes and no. a URL is a URL
- [18:29:04] <briansuda>
the content is what is the TYPE
- [18:29:07] <briansuda>
not the object
- [18:29:15] <briansuda>
where as a TEL is a CAR phone
- [18:29:16] <mkaply>
briansuda: I'm thinking of work URL vs. home url in a vcard
- [18:30:07] <briansuda>
if we stick with the RFC, then it is a matter of attacking the problem from that troute
- [18:30:10] <briansuda>
route...
- [18:30:19] <briansuda>
same as Instant messaging protocols
- [18:30:36] <mkaply>
at least with the IM protocols you can do some parsing of the URL and know what it is
- [18:35:36] * tantek (n=tantek@m810f36d0.tmodns.net) has joined #microformats
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- [18:35:36] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [18:37:44] <TylerR>
Howdy tantek.
- [18:37:50] <tantek>
greetings
- [18:38:18] * tantek is still on vacation but is here to listen and maybe answer quick questions.
- [18:38:29] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
- [18:38:29] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
- [18:38:48] <TylerR>
Pitching my WDN attendence today to one of the company partners today. :)
- [18:39:21] <TylerR>
It's definitely tight in terms of timing, but I think I may win her over.
- [18:40:42] <mkaply>
tantek: I have a question about ISO dates. Is the proper ISO format XXXX-XX-XXTXXXXXX or XXXXXXXXTXXXXXX (with or without the dashes) or bot
- [18:40:44] <mkaply>
both
- [18:41:09] <tantek>
both are valid ISO, including if you use ":" to delimit HH:MM:SS
- [18:41:20] <mkaply>
Most services (yahoo, google) seem to expect things without the dashes.
- [18:41:31] <mkaply>
oe :
- [18:41:34] <mkaply>
or :'s
- [18:41:40] <tantek>
"expect"?
- [18:41:47] <tantek>
in what context? URL?
- [18:41:59] <mkaply>
like the URL to add a yahoo calendar for instance
- [18:44:12] <mkaply>
tantek:
- [18:44:13] <mkaply>
http://calendar.yahoo.com/?v=60&TITLE=Make+Austin+Wierder+Fest+4&DESC=Way+more+avant+garde+than+Keep+Austin+Weird+will+ever+be.%0D%0A%0D%0A4%3A00+-+Pataphysics%0D%0A5%3A00+-+Toof+%0D%0A6%3A00+-+Seizures%21+%0D%0A7%3A00+-+Assacre+%0D%0A8%3A00+-+Cry+Blood+Apache+%0D%0A9%3A00+-+HUG&TYPE=24&URL=http://upcoming.org/event/134279/&ST=20070210T160000&DUR=0700&in_loc=Lovejoy%27s&in_st=604+Neches+Street&in_csz=Austin%2C+Texas+78701&in_ph=
- [18:44:40] <mkaply>
if you change it to 2007-02-10 for instance, it doesn't parse. I'm just deciding how to store my dates in my internal JS representation
- [18:45:10] <mkaply>
I would love to store actual JS Date objects, but the JS Date spec is kind of bad/useless
- [18:45:16] <tantek>
indeed
- [18:45:31] <mkaply>
I'm considering rolling my own date/time objects for my purposes
- [18:45:47] <tantek>
ah - so the Y! Calendar HTTP API only accepts YYYYMMDDTHHMMSS formatted datetimes then?
- [18:48:28] <mkaply>
tantek: yep. And the same with google.
- [18:48:43] <tantek>
perhaps this is worth documenting somewhere on the wiki
- [18:48:52] <mkaply>
So when I roll my own datetime object, I'm thinking that's what I should return as an ISO date since it seems to be used by those services
- [18:49:10] * charlie_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
- [18:49:54] <tantek>
yes that seems reasonable
- [18:50:16] <tantek>
do they accept (or reject) a "Z" at the end to indicate explicit UTC?
- [18:50:35] <aconbere|work>
in python you sepecify what seperator you want
- [18:50:49] <aconbere|work>
.isoformat([seperator])
- [18:51:28] * bewest hates date parsing from string representations in python
- [18:51:51] <aconbere|work>
ugh, yes string to dates is gross
- [18:51:58] <bewest>
it's shameful
- [18:52:02] <aconbere|work>
and python doesn't handel timezones well
- [18:52:16] <bewest>
php's strptime is much better
- [18:52:22] <bewest>
it handles just about anything you can throw at it
- [18:52:30] <aconbere|work>
apparently the strptime was rewritten in 2.5
- [18:52:34] <aconbere|work>
I don't know if you've used that
- [18:52:35] <bewest>
oooOOoo
- [18:52:38] * bewest has not
- [18:52:38] <aconbere|work>
(I haven't)
- [18:52:44] <aconbere|work>
yeah
- [18:52:48] <bewest>
there are operational and maintenance issues for that :(
- [18:52:49] <aconbere|work>
it's supposed to be much improved
- [18:52:56] <aconbere|work>
yeah that's my issue :)
- [18:53:11] <aconbere|work>
but I look forward to it
- [18:53:16] <bewest>
yes
- [18:53:18] <bewest>
maybe in a year
- [18:53:34] <TylerR>
tantek: Excited about your talk next week?
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- [18:55:47] <mkaply>
tantek: Not sure about the UTC thing.
- [18:56:10] <tantek>
TylerR - very much - so much great work that folks have done in the community to be highlighted and held up as great examples. like recent LinkedIn hResume support, Operator, etc.
- [18:57:28] <TylerR>
Oh definitely! I've been talking with Steve Ganz over at LinkedIn recently. Very excited about the hResume support.
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- [19:00:13] <mfbot>
[[class-design-pattern]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=class-design-pattern&diff=0&oldid=13048 * Tantek * (+277) update with references to semantic-xhtml and class-names pages, add more detail to steps, and reorder/collapse
- [19:00:21] <bewest>
I thought if have a node with class="url", and the href is absent, you should evaluate the contents of the node
- [19:00:32] <bewest>
but I can't find it in any parsing notes on the wiki
- [19:00:41] <tantek>
bewest, http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-parsing
- [19:00:48] <bewest>
I've looked there, but I'll look again
- [19:01:46] <bewest>
none of the notes say what to do when the expected attribute of URI type is absent
- [19:02:12] <bewest>
although, it does seem to indicate class="url" should only be used on nodes that have a URI type attribute
- [19:02:40] <tantek>
not necessarily
- [19:02:57] <tantek>
ok i see that the fallback is not made clearly explicit - let me fix that
- [19:03:08] <tantek>
the default fallback to "the contents of the element are used for the value."
- [19:03:13] <bewest>
that's what I thought
- [19:03:29] <bewest>
I've been trying to explain that, but couldn't find it
- [19:03:53] <bewest>
so... now I'm curious is a class value of "value" also required to use that fallback, or is that optional?
- [19:06:13] <tantek>
in practice, class="value" have only been used on elements where the content is taken as the value, but this is worth making explicit as well
- [19:06:57] <DerrickPallas>
So if I have <a class="email" href="mailto:bar"><span class="value">foo</span></a>
- [19:07:07] <DerrickPallas>
What is the user's email address?
- [19:07:20] <briansuda>
it is FOO
- [19:07:31] <DerrickPallas>
I'm using FOO and then failing back to BAR.
- [19:07:33] <DerrickPallas>
Thank you.
- [19:07:36] <tantek>
precisely Derick, that is an example that needs to be explicitly characterized
- [19:07:46] <DerrickPallas>
Ben is reading over my shoulder. :)
- [19:07:50] <briansuda>
there is no fallback, you explictly said FOO
- [19:07:58] <tantek>
the function of "value" is to override which element is inspected for the value of the property
- [19:08:16] <bewest>
so "value" has a higher precedence
- [19:08:18] <DerrickPallas>
Sorry. I mean I'm looking for class="value" and failing that using the href.
- [19:09:08] <DerrickPallas>
Great.
- [19:09:12] <bewest>
OTOH, "value" is not required to evaluate the contents of the node as the value of the property if the normal means of evaluating it (such as using the value of a URI-type attribute) is missing
- [19:09:37] <DerrickPallas>
That need to be made explicit in the wiki.
- [19:09:48] <bewest>
so the two cases in which the contents of the element are used for properties expecting a URI type is when the URI type attribute is missing and when class="value" is present
- [19:10:55] * tantek is editing hcard-parsing
- [19:11:09] <DerrickPallas>
The conflict is between the part of the spec that says "if it's an anchor, use href; if it's an img, use src; if it's an object, use data" and the part that says "use @class='value' instead of text() if it exists"
- [19:12:07] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) Quit ()
- [19:12:31] <bewest>
so evaluation order for URI-typed properties are 1.) concatenated contents of elements of class "value", 2.) the value of the URI-type attribute (eg href, src), 3.) alternative attributes (eg "alt"), and finally 4.) failing all previous attempts, the element contents
- [19:12:53] <briansuda>
2 & 3 are the same thing
- [19:13:01] <briansuda>
it depends on the type of element
- [19:13:18] <briansuda>
you can have:
- [19:13:19] <bewest>
ok, I'll buy that
- [19:13:27] <bewest>
I see that, just trying to make it explicit
- [19:13:30] <briansuda>
<img src="" alt="brian" class="fn photo"/>
- [19:13:32] * tantek asks for a pause in the conversation so he can finish updating hcard-parsing which should answer these questions.
- [19:13:42] <bewest>
2 and 3 can be coalesced as "the expected attribute"
- [19:13:45] <bewest>
or something
- [19:13:47] <briansuda>
the photo will be pulled from @src, the FN from @alt
- [19:14:10] <mfbot>
[[hcard-parsing]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-parsing&diff=0&oldid=13049 * Tantek * (+518) parsing hCard properties and values -
- [19:15:02] * charles_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Connection timed out)
- [19:15:26] <bewest>
a diagram explaining the order of precedence might be handy
- [19:16:02] <tantek>
bewest, DerrickPallas, please re-read http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-parsing#parsing_hCard_properties_and_values especially the new "In particular" steps at the top
- [19:16:59] <bewest>
ok
- [19:17:31] <mfbot>
[[hcard-parsing]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-parsing&diff=0&oldid=13050 * Tantek * (-3) descendant/child consistency without changing previously documented semantic
- [19:17:57] <DerrickPallas>
Does @class="value" apply to all elements?
- [19:18:00] <aconbere|work>
I recently proposed the code microformat, and I'm not really sure what should be done afterwards. I've collected a list of examples and added them to the code-examples page, and started a discussion page, at this point is it kind of hands off? or should I be contacting people whom I think would have a vested interest in this kind of microformat and asking for their input?
- [19:18:05] <aconbere|work>
etc.
- [19:18:35] <DerrickPallas>
Oops, the wiki answers my question.
- [19:19:14] <tantek>
aconbere - reread http://microformats.org/wiki/process and see how thoroughly you have followed the steps therein
- [19:19:26] <tantek>
bbiab
- [19:19:39] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@hq.last.fm) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [19:20:08] <DerrickPallas>
So, @class="value" overrides all rules?
- [19:20:11] <DerrickPallas>
Just to confirm.
- [19:20:24] <tantek>
it's not an override - there is a precise order to follow
- [19:20:48] * tantek (n=tantek@m810f36d0.tmodns.net) Quit ()
- [19:21:09] <DerrickPallas>
s/overrides/has higher precedence than/g
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- [19:23:45] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
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- [19:24:07] <mfbot>
[[product-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=product-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13051 * Aconbere * (+0) Extensibility - fixed a spelling mistake
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- [19:30:23] <mfbot>
[[code-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=code-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13052 * Aconbere * (+258) Base Elements -
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- [19:37:07] <bewest>
hmmm is the hcard-parsing page a page to which conservative editing practices should be applied?
- [19:37:25] <mfbot>
[[code-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=code-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13053 * Aconbere * (+252) Base Elements -
- [19:37:26] <bewest>
I believe "Url Handling" should read "Adressing Hcards"
- [19:37:56] <bewest>
or just Adressing
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- [19:38:16] <mfbot>
[[code-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=code-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13054 * Aconbere * (+44)
- [19:38:47] <bewest>
hmmm is hcard-parsing normative?
- [19:44:17] <DerrickPallas>
New problem with value: nesting.
- [19:44:29] <bewest>
ok, so when class="value", the evaluation should apply only to the nearest parent?
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- [19:44:43] <bewest>
DerrickPallas: actually, I'm not sure it matters, since the spec says it's simply a concatenation, anyway
- [19:44:52] <bewest>
so for the "n" example, it still makes sense
- [19:45:23] <DerrickPallas>
If I have <div class="n"><span class="family-name"><span class="value">foo</span></span><span class="family-name">bar</span></div>
- [19:45:27] <DerrickPallas>
What is the value of n?
- [19:45:38] <bewest>
ok, if we apply value to the nearest ancestor
- [19:45:53] <DerrickPallas>
One level of nesting should not make a difference.
- [19:45:55] * nstrich (n=nostrich@host86-137-41-248.range86-137.btcentralplus.com) Quit ("Undergoing routine maintenance.")
- [19:45:58] <bewest>
hmmm
- [19:46:00] <DerrickPallas>
Because then you have to know the entire spec.
- [19:46:14] <bewest>
why are there two family-name's though?
- [19:46:14] <DerrickPallas>
Including any additions that are outside the scope of the spec.
- [19:46:17] <bewest>
that seems weird
- [19:46:18] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("backup tim")
- [19:46:25] <DerrickPallas>
oops
- [19:46:31] <DerrickPallas>
I meant the first one to be "given-name"
- [19:46:33] <bewest>
oh ok
- [19:46:34] <bewest>
ok
- [19:46:40] <bewest>
so that would make sense
- [19:46:44] <bewest>
let's say the first is given-name?
- [19:47:07] <DerrickPallas>
<div class="n"><span class="given-name"><span class="value">foo</span></span><span class="family-name">bar</span></div>
- [19:47:08] <bewest>
<div class="n"><span class="given-name"><span class="value">foo</span></span><span class="family-name">bar</span></div>
- [19:47:12] <DerrickPallas>
*snap*
- [19:47:27] <bewest>
this makes sense to me
- [19:47:30] <mkaply>
n is an object with a given name and family name - value means nothing in that context, does it?
- [19:47:32] <bewest>
n is foo bar
- [19:47:36] <bewest>
yes, it does
- [19:47:39] <bewest>
given-name is foo
- [19:47:41] <mkaply>
wait, missed the nesting
- [19:47:41] <mkaply>
yes
- [19:47:43] <DerrickPallas>
So in this example, given-name -> "foo", family-name -> "bar", n -> "foo"
- [19:47:44] <bewest>
family-name is bar
- [19:47:49] * JMulder (n=me@ip4da10ac9.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #microformats
- [19:47:51] <bewest>
n = foo bar
- [19:48:01] <bewest>
because of n optimization, right?
- [19:48:18] <mkaply>
thre would be no n optimization in that case. n optimization only happens if there is an fn with no n
- [19:48:19] <DerrickPallas>
n optimization only takes place if n is not provided, Ben.
- [19:48:27] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13055 * BillTurner * (+123) New Examples -
- [19:48:29] <bewest>
hmm
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- [19:48:52] <bewest>
n is special
- [19:48:53] <bewest>
http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-parsing#hCard_sub-properties
- [19:49:21] <DerrickPallas>
My question is why certain properties explicitly list that they can contain a value and others don't if value applies to everything.
- [19:49:45] <bewest>
hmmm
- [19:49:53] <mkaply>
DerrickPallas: read this
- [19:50:07] <DerrickPallas>
The solution that is more general is to use an abbr.
- [19:50:14] <mkaply>
http://www.xfront.com/microformats/hCard.html
- [19:50:23] <mkaply>
It's the best explanation of the value thing that I have seen
- [19:50:24] <bewest>
ah, yes, but that can be undesirable, because we want to avoid abusing abbr
- [19:50:31] <bewest>
and our use of abbr is already controversial
- [19:50:36] <DerrickPallas>
<abbr class="n" title="foo"><span class="given-name"><span class="value">foo</span></span><span class="family-name">bar</span></abbr>
- [19:51:28] <bewest>
also, in that last example, it puts more burden on publishers to redundantly list the information, and it is a kind of invisible metadata all of a sudden, right?
- [19:51:35] <bewest>
are you saying that n should evaluate to "foo" in that case?
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- [19:51:49] <DerrickPallas>
Yes.
- [19:51:58] <mkaply>
I don't think it should.
- [19:51:59] <bewest>
if so, we've lost the feature of visible metadata
- [19:52:11] <bewest>
and it's redundant
- [19:52:17] <mkaply>
n is intended to be a containing element. So if it has contained elements, they get used
- [19:52:35] <bewest>
yeah, that's true as well
- [19:52:39] <bewest>
some elements are containing elements
- [19:52:45] <DerrickPallas>
The problem is nesting.
- [19:52:50] <bewest>
"There are some hCard properties whose values themselves have structure (AKA structured type value) and are composed of multiple pieces, which we refer to as sub-properties."
- [19:53:26] <bewest>
not sure what you mean, if you nest the sub properties, the result seems pretty clear to me
- [19:53:38] <bewest>
you mean when you want it to evaluate to something other than what is specified in the sub properties?
- [19:54:00] <DerrickPallas>
mkaply: the example in the link you sent seems like bad practice because sort-order does exactly what you'd like.
- [19:54:50] <DerrickPallas>
Er, what they'd like.
- [19:55:32] * nostrich (n=nostrich@host86-137-41-248.range86-137.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
- [19:55:38] <bewest>
I love S5 presentations
- [20:01:14] <DerrickPallas>
I guess I have a really old version of the hCard test.
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- [20:08:15] <jibot>
davecardwell is Dave Cardwell of http://davecardwell.co.uk/. He designs webs and generally geeks about in York, England.
- [20:15:37] <TylerR>
What's everyone up to today?
- [20:22:32] <DerrickPallas>
Working on awesome.
- [20:23:43] <DerrickPallas>
What's up in TylerR land?
- [20:24:25] <TylerR>
Putting the wraps on my proposal for attendence and monetary assistance to Web Directions North. :)
- [20:24:40] <mkaply>
do people use uf or mf if they want to abbreviate microformat in filesnames and stuff
- [20:24:50] <TylerR>
I'm pitching the proposal to one of the company partners in about an hour.
- [20:24:53] <DerrickPallas>
uf
- [20:25:17] <bewest>
micro
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- [20:26:00] <jibot>
Kilianvalkhof is Kilian Valkhof, he makes websites and blogs at http://kilianvalkhof.com
- [20:28:21] * shawn_ (n=shawn@netblock-68-183-69-197.dslextreme.com) Quit (Connection timed out)
- [20:28:27] <TylerR>
DerrickPallas: I'm looking for monetary funding since the cost is a bit beyond my reach this month. I just bought a Wii and my student loans just kicked in. :)
- [20:28:32] * shawn_ (n=shawn@netblock-68-183-69-197.dslextreme.com) has joined #microformats
- [20:29:28] <TylerR>
So I'm hoping the company will foot the bill.
- [20:29:51] <DerrickPallas>
Here's to that.
- [20:32:59] <TylerR>
What's nice is I'm driving distance from the conference so it will be a quick drive up there. Just have to deal with the border guard.
- [20:38:24] <DerrickPallas>
I just go to the free stuff.
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- [20:42:32] <DerrickPallas>
What is the "table headers pattern" and how does it relate to "include pattern"?
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- [20:49:02] <bewest>
I think this is what is meant by table headers
- [20:49:03] <bewest>
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/tables.html#adef-headers
- [20:49:43] <bewest>
it's an attribute that takes a whitespace delimited set of id references to be used in aiding what the cells the headers are being applied to mean
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- [21:19:31] <mfbot>
[[code-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=code-examples&diff=0&oldid=13056 * Aconbere * (+6) The Problem -
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- [21:55:27] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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- [22:19:45] <TylerR>
Hey KevinMarks.
- [22:20:01] <TylerR>
Looks like I got the "no go" from the Engagement Manager about Web Directions North, because they
- [22:20:04] <TylerR>
Woops
- [22:20:16] <TylerR>
Because they're sending some other devs to Mix 07 in April.
- [22:20:51] <TylerR>
Which unfortunately is put on my MS, which means, sadly that everything will have a lovely slant to it and be all about their products and nothing to do with Microformats or open web standards. :\
- [22:21:10] <TylerR>
</rant>
- [22:22:07] <aconbere|work>
which should be an excelent oportunity to grill them in public during Q&A
- [22:24:01] * TylerR nods. That is if I get to go to Mix 07, which I've just asked to be considered to join the trip goers.
- [22:24:36] <TylerR>
And believe me. I'll be taking question requests from you all. :)
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- [22:45:13] <jibot>
Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
- [22:45:42] <TylerR>
Hey there Mr_Elusive.
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- [22:52:22] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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- [22:52:28] <lucasvo>
hcard is 100% compatible to vcard, isn't it?
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- [22:55:31] <TylerR>
Any suggestions on a good way to "introduce" the concept of uf to a very MS-centric company? I'm wanting to hold a uf session next month at one of our bi-weekly dev meetings.
- [22:58:20] <TylerR>
One thing I'd like to do is team up with our primary SharePoint developer and work with him outside of work getting a uf plug-in for SharePoint working.
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- [23:00:50] <aconbere|work>
TylerR: show them the LiveWhatever that Ray Ozzie demoed :)
- [23:00:55] <aconbere|work>
"look even MS is into it"
- [23:03:10] <TylerR>
Yeah, I remember Bill mentioning something about that.
- [23:03:28] <TylerR>
http://blog.broadbandmechanics.com/2006/03/we-need-microformats-bill-gates
- [23:03:31] <davecardwell>
TylerR: http://microformats.org/blog/2006/03/20/bill-gates-at-mix06-we-need-microformats/
- [23:03:34] <davecardwell>
heh
- [23:03:38] <TylerR>
Ah there we go.
- [23:03:39] <TylerR>
:)
- [23:04:03] <TylerR>
Ah Mix 06, we'll be going to Mix 07. I'm trying to get a slot to go.
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- [23:25:34] <DerrickPallas>
I think the hcard tests need two more xml:base examples.
- [23:25:52] <DerrickPallas>
Because xml:base is inherited.
- [23:26:50] <DerrickPallas>
Something like <html xml:base="http://foo.com"><div xml:base="http://bar.com"><a href="/home/blah">site</a></div></html>
- [23:27:00] <DerrickPallas>
the link should resolve to http://bar.com/home/blah
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- [23:44:16] <TylerR>
Hey there SteveGanz!
- [23:49:05] <SteveGanz>
Hi TylerR
- [23:49:14] <TylerR>
How was the weekend for you?
- [23:49:17] * defunkt (n=cowboy@cn-sfo1-pix-natout.cnet.com) has left #microformats
- [23:54:40] <TylerR>
SteveGanz: I'd love to talk later tonight with you about some uf stuff if you'll be around ~11pm PST?
- [23:55:10] <SteveGanz>
I should be around.
- [23:55:48] <TylerR>
Great. I'm off for a while, till later!
- [23:55:50] * TylerR waves.
- [23:55:58] <SteveGanz>
See you then.
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