IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-01-31
Timestamps are in UTC.
- [00:00:14] <tantek>
DerrickPallas - could you add problematic hCards to the hcard-examples-in-wild wiki page's "Examples with Problems" section and document the problems?
- [00:00:43] <DerrickPallas>
No problem.
- [00:01:02] <tantek>
thanks much!
- [00:01:31] <DerrickPallas>
I think the onus discussion stopped awhile ago.
- [00:01:56] <tantek>
the answer can be derived by understanding scientific method
- [00:03:25] <DerrickPallas>
Let's see if I can find the problem pages.
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- [00:30:15] <mfbot>
[[irc-people]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=13082 * Mike * (+53) add self to ircpeople
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- [00:31:24] <mmc_>
?def mmc_ is Michael McCracken and can be found online at http://michael-mccracken.net/
- [00:31:24] <jibot>
mmc_ is Michael McCracken and can be found online at http://michael-mccracken.net/
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- [02:39:47] <jibot>
mmc_ is Michael McCracken and can be found online at http://michael-mccracken.net/
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- [03:42:38] <evanpro>
Hey, so, I asked this yesterday, AFAIK no response
- [03:42:57] <evanpro>
I read a blog post that said that Wikipedia had announced support for microformats
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- [05:02:30] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [06:21:37] <TylerR>
Evening all.
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- [07:25:57] <jibot>
bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
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- [07:30:30] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
- [07:31:40] <TylerR>
Hi folks.
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- [08:03:33] <mfbot>
[[citation-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13083 * Mike * (+0) Examples -
- [08:10:24] <mfbot>
[[citation-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13084 * Mike * (-158) Examples - deleted question about root element, which is now answered by a later section (answer is: use 'hcite')
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- [08:20:30] <mfbot>
[[citation-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13085 * Mike * (+516) Working straw schema - add changes from discussion of date fields on mailing list
- [08:26:26] <mfbot>
[[citation-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13086 * Mike * (+669) Discussion of Straw Format elements - add summary of list discussion of date fields
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- [08:55:34] <mfbot>
[[species-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13087 * GerardM * (+0) Straw man proposal -
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- [09:35:19] <jibot>
BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk ( 0000/ 0100 GMT)
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- [09:54:04] <jibot>
davecardwell is Dave Cardwell of http://davecardwell.co.uk/. He designs webs and generally geeks about in York, England.
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- [09:54:26] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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- [10:45:08] <jibot>
julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
- [10:50:49] <KevinMarks>
hi julian
- [10:51:27] <KevinMarks>
I had something I wanted to ask you - have people converged on a way to put tags into mp3s, and into iTunes?
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- [11:23:20] <mfbot>
[[podcasts]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=podcasts&diff=0&oldid=13088 * Brian * (+237) Added Steve Ganz hResume interview
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- [11:41:28] <jibot>
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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- [12:54:25] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13089 * AdamDarowski * (+200) New Examples -
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- [13:28:40] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [13:41:06] <jibot>
NatBat is Natalie Downe and can be found online at http://notes.natbat.net
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- [14:08:13] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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- [14:11:33] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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- [14:34:09] <jibot>
ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com
- [14:36:28] <briansuda>
hm, interesting! use hCard to autofill user-data http://philwilson.org/blog/2007/01/videntity-imports-hcard-and-foaf.html
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- [14:46:21] <jibot>
Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
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edsu is Ed Summers from the Library of Congress <http://www.inkdroid.org>
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Charl is Charl van Niekerk and writes about standards at http://standards.za.net/
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danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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- [15:35:28] <jibot>
RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at> from Austria (TZ: 0100)
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- [16:56:22] <jibot>
TylerR is Tyler Roehmholdt and is brewing up something social.
- [16:56:40] <TylerR>
?forgetme
- [16:56:40] <jibot>
I have expunged TylerR from my mind
- [16:56:52] <TylerR>
I swore I did that yesterday.
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- [16:58:04] <ajturner>
TylerR -jibot loves you too much for that
- [16:58:13] <TylerR>
It would seem so!
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- [16:58:46] <TylerR>
How's the morning going?
- [16:58:55] <TylerR>
Or afternoon/evening, depending on the local. :)
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- [16:59:29] <jibot>
ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
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- [17:13:03] <DerrickPallas>
Howdy all.
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- [17:14:17] <jibot>
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
- [17:14:19] <DerrickPallas>
Is there a way to tell a search indexer to ignore a chunk of HTML?
- [17:16:29] <briansuda>
not a specific chunk
- [17:16:36] <briansuda>
just the whole page, or whole directory
- [17:16:48] <briansuda>
or you can obfuscate the data so Spiders don't find it
- [17:16:49] <kapowaz>
contain it within an iframe and exclude that page ?
- [17:16:59] <kapowaz>
for maximum evil
- [17:17:12] <briansuda>
or output with document.write
- [17:17:18] <kapowaz>
oh, even more evil.
- [17:17:22] <briansuda>
:)
- [17:19:27] <TylerR>
Hi DerrickPallas.
- [17:20:19] <TylerR>
Hmm, that's a dandy idea though... a uf for ignoring chunks of HTML.
- [17:20:48] <TylerR>
briansuda: What's the current obfuscation method to do that?
- [17:21:05] <TylerR>
Or is that the document.write?
- [17:21:06] <kapowaz>
why would that be a microformat?
- [17:21:10] <briansuda>
there already was a rel-robots proposal which fell apart
- [17:21:26] <kapowaz>
fell apart? howcome?
- [17:21:40] <RobertBachmann>
not enough intresset, I guess
- [17:21:47] <briansuda>
microformats document real world publishing
- [17:22:00] * TylerR (n=tylerr@68.178.101.38) Quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
- [17:22:07] <briansuda>
no one currently 'sections' off parts of a page for non-indexing
- [17:22:14] * TylerR (n=tylerr@68.178.101.38) has joined #microformats
- [17:25:18] <KevinMarks>
we had a talk about this at the blogspam summit, but never really converged on anything
- [17:26:21] * SamRose (n=chatzill@c-71-197-25-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
- [17:26:22] <jibot>
SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
- [17:27:16] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
- [17:27:42] <DerrickPallas>
rel-robots is less interesting to me
- [17:28:01] <DerrickPallas>
I just want to figure out how to ignore a menu.
- [17:28:06] <DerrickPallas>
Or in a blog, user comments.
- [17:28:17] <DerrickPallas>
Which would probably cut down on blog spam.
- [17:29:07] <kapowaz>
surely stopping the spam from being published in the first place would be a more worthwhile solution?
- [17:29:48] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-683afd42341015e8) has joined #microformats
- [17:29:48] <jibot>
mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
- [17:32:50] <TylerR>
KevinMarks: Is there an interest in something like that? (negating chunks of HTML?)
- [17:33:13] * SamRose (n=chatzill@c-71-197-25-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.1/2006120417]")
- [17:33:35] <RobertBachmann>
negating = ignoring?
- [17:35:51] <TylerR>
RobertBachmann: Indeed. Perhaps I should have clarified. :)
- [17:36:00] <DerrickPallas>
<del> negates
- [17:36:01] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit ()
- [17:36:14] <DerrickPallas>
that's not the same as marking something as the main content
- [17:37:06] <DerrickPallas>
Actually, I suspect that what most people do is put their main content in a <div class="$foo"> where $foo is main, content, article, or something obscure.
- [17:37:41] * BenWard (n=BenWard@host81-156-224-190.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
- [17:37:43] <TylerR>
Sure DerrickPallas, I mean, has there been interest in your situation before, where people have wanted a robot/spider not to take certain chunks of content into consideration?
- [17:38:07] <DerrickPallas>
Yes.
- [17:38:19] <TylerR>
And is there an easy way do this?
- [17:38:30] <briansuda>
obfuscate
- [17:38:30] <TylerR>
(we're talking uf easy) :)
- [17:38:37] <DerrickPallas>
Sure seems that way.
- [17:38:56] <DerrickPallas>
There are two solutions: say what you want to indexer to index or indicate what you don't want it to.
- [17:39:16] <TylerR>
And this is done via obfuscation?
- [17:39:46] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) has joined #microformats
- [17:39:46] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
- [17:39:52] <DerrickPallas>
Since the default is to index everything, it won't work to make a page explicitly define what they want the indexer to index without some queue that a mode switch has taken place.
- [17:40:03] <DerrickPallas>
que, rather
- [17:42:31] <TylerR>
Oh, indexing the content is fine, I'm more curious about something akin to a rel-nofollow like attribute that says, "index this, but don't apply the content in this chunk to any algorithms when ranking or parsing for search terms".
- [17:42:53] <briansuda>
these guys did some Microformats stuff last year, i'm sure they would be interested again this year: http://www.ukoln.ac.uk/web-focus/events/workshops/webmaster-2007/
- [17:45:41] * ianloic (n=ian@71.5.56.162.ptr.us.xo.net) has joined #microformats
- [17:45:54] <ianloic>
I like that microformats are moving towards pirate speak
- [17:46:22] <ianloic>
arrr! this here hCard be me self!
- [17:47:16] <TylerR>
Eh?
- [17:47:34] <RobertBachmann>
lol
- [17:47:43] * pecus (n=pecus@194.65.5.235) Quit ()
- [17:48:00] <DerrickPallas>
That's pretty funny.
- [17:48:14] <RobertBachmann>
TylerR: read the latest post on uf-discuss
- [17:48:23] <TylerR>
I haven't subscribed. :(
- [17:48:31] <TylerR>
I need to.
- [17:48:38] <bewest>
html5 should help a lot
- [17:48:45] <TylerR>
Is there an archive floating around?
- [17:49:00] <ianloic>
I should read back and try to understand why "me self" was required.
- [17:49:20] <bewest>
it'll have dedicated elements to demarcate which sections are the main content, which parts of menus, headers etc...
- [17:49:56] <aconbere|work>
and won't be implimented in IE for another 5 years *sigh*
- [17:50:15] <TylerR>
HTML5 looks to be more promising than XHTML2.
- [17:50:40] <ianloic>
just use xaml
- [17:51:33] <DerrickPallas>
XHTML is dead.
- [17:51:36] <DerrickPallas>
Long live XHTML.
- [17:52:32] <TylerR>
Isn't that a Crown Royal ad DerrickPallas? :)
- [17:53:09] * briansuda (n=briansud@82.221.34.106) Quit ()
- [17:55:06] <KevinMarks>
I love 'me self', it's so Irish
- [17:55:11] <KevinMarks>
reminds me of my grandma
- [17:56:08] * TylerR grins.
- [17:56:21] <bewest>
shouldn't we come up with some other options to compare?
- [17:56:33] * Charl (n=Charl@196.21.192.15) Quit ()
- [17:57:06] <bewest>
are there any other microformats that would benefit from identitifying the address of some vetted information for which "self" wouldn't make sense?
- [17:59:55] <OpenStandards>
TylerR, html 5 where can i find out more information on that
- [18:00:17] <TylerR>
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/
- [18:01:57] <OpenStandards>
thanks
- [18:02:38] * adactio (n=jeremy@host86-139-178-30.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
- [18:02:57] <TylerR>
You bet.
- [18:04:20] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) Quit (Read error: 148 (No route to host))
- [18:04:48] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [18:04:56] * RobertBachmann (n=rb@N054P029.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit ("Leaving.")
- [18:05:13] <OpenStandards>
am reading now :)
- [18:05:30] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
- [18:05:30] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
- [18:08:00] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
- [18:08:19] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) has joined #microformats
- [18:09:13] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit (Client Quit)
- [18:20:00] <bengee>
does the VoteLinks MF have a published xmdp file already?
- [18:21:12] * bengee found the xfn and hcard ones, wondered if there are any others already
- [18:26:11] * adactio (n=jeremy@host86-139-178-30.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) has left #microformats
- [18:36:46] <bewest>
afaik all mf have an xmdp
- [18:37:01] <bewest>
bengee: if you find a format missing an XMDP, that is considered a bug, I think
- [18:37:55] * sreynen (n=sreynen@12-217-44-131.client.mchsi.com) Quit ()
- [18:37:56] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
- [18:38:03] * mkaply loves the "pick at most one" in the XFN family section - clearly these folks ain't never heard of inbreeding
- [18:38:51] <bengee>
I meant published XMDPs, bewest, i.e. those I can use to generate URIs from the listed terms...
- [18:38:53] * sreynen (n=sreynen@12-217-44-131.client.mchsi.com) has joined #microformats
- [18:38:53] * ChanServ sets mode +o sreynen
- [18:39:47] <bengee>
only xfn and hcard seem to have a dedicated xmdp location so far
- [18:40:08] <bewest>
mkaply: does that meet the 80-20 criteria ;-)
- [18:40:26] <mkaply>
bewest: depends on what state you live in :)
- [18:41:22] * kwijibo (n=kwijibo@87.112.15.1.bbplus.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net) has left #microformats
- [18:41:44] <bengee>
it may meet the 80-20 criteria *within* the kelly family ;)
- [18:42:27] <bengee>
(which prolly noone outside of germany knows...)
- [18:44:56] <sreynen>
this rel="self me" discussion is flooding the discuss list, and doesn't seem to be progressing
- [18:46:05] <bewest>
agreed
- [18:46:41] <bewest>
sreynen: any suggestions?
- [18:47:02] <sreynen>
it's not clear to me that everyone is discussing the same use case
- [18:47:07] <bewest>
hmmm
- [18:47:12] <sreynen>
so i think it would help to review that
- [18:47:22] * Ronnos (n=chatzill@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #microformats
- [18:47:23] <jibot>
Ronnos is Ron Kok, a friendly student Communication and Multimedia Design in The Netherlands
- [18:47:23] <bewest>
yes, the topic has expanded into trust metrics and whatnot
- [18:47:27] <ianloic>
this Ryan CAnnon chap is a troublemaker
- [18:47:44] <sreynen>
for example, all of the examples i've seen involve a single person publishing multiple hCards of himself
- [18:48:13] <sreynen>
yet many people are talking about 3rd parties publishing hCards and pointing back to the subject's own hCard
- [18:48:25] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) has joined #microformats
- [18:48:28] <sreynen>
do those both fall under the scope of the problem trying to be solved?
- [18:48:43] <bewest>
I don't know
- [18:48:58] <sreynen>
heh, i wonder if anyone does
- [18:49:17] <bewest>
would putting up a wiki page dedicated to this issue help ameliorate the communication problem?
- [18:49:24] <bewest>
along with inviting more people to IRC?
- [18:49:38] <bewest>
where would it go? hcard-issues ?
- [18:53:15] <ianloic>
eventually everyone ends up wanting to solve all the hard distributed identity problems with hCard :(
- [18:54:47] * bear is now known as bear_afk
- [18:55:13] <bewest>
I think that's only a small part of the conversation
- [18:59:51] * bengee (n=bengee@82.207.128.166) Quit ("Leaving")
- [19:00:53] <DerrickPallas>
hCard + OpenID = <3
- [19:02:13] * monkinetic (i=redmonk@bia.crschmidt.net) has joined #microformats
- [19:02:14] <jibot>
monkinetic is redmonk is SteveIvy is Steve Ivy - http://redmonk.net
- [19:03:35] <mfbot>
[[citation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples&diff=0&oldid=13090 * Mike * (+616) English Wikipdia - Add info about wikipedia book infobox template
- [19:05:29] <sreynen>
bewest, I think either/both wiki or IRC would improve matters
- [19:05:44] <sreynen>
both keep more background with the discussion than a series of clipped emails
- [19:05:57] * Kilianvalkhof (i=Kay@a80-100-213-232.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined #microformats
- [19:05:57] <jibot>
Kilianvalkhof is Kilian Valkhof, he makes websites and blogs at http://kilianvalkhof.com
- [19:16:21] <mfbot>
[[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=13091 * DerrickPallas * (+311) Concatenating values -
- [19:16:52] <mfbot>
[[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=13092 * BenWest * (+940) Template - attempt to add the rel="me self" issue. please add to this.
- [19:17:24] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("http://gmachina.com - gaming feeds in bulk")
- [19:19:23] <mfbot>
[[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=13093 * BenWest * (+30) Issues - added to TOC for canonical/authoritative issue. fixed some formatting
- [19:19:35] <bewest>
sreynen: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-issues#Canonical.2FAuthoritative_Hcard
- [19:21:45] * OpenStandards (n=vir@ACBD0BC0.ipt.aol.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
- [19:22:17] <sreynen>
bewest, great, thanks
- [19:22:52] <bewest>
and sent a message to the list asking for more participation via IRC and wiki
- [19:23:07] <sreynen>
great
- [19:23:40] <sreynen>
i'm personally very interested in the topic, but i worry the flood will drive some away from the list
- [19:23:45] * monkinetic (i=redmonk@bia.crschmidt.net) has left #microformats
- [19:24:13] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) Quit ()
- [19:25:37] <bewest>
yeah
- [19:25:52] <bewest>
sreynen: I came to the discussion relatively late
- [19:26:01] <bewest>
sreynen: can you make sure what's on the wiki is representative?
- [19:26:05] <bewest>
of the discussion
- [19:26:29] <bewest>
I only added a few lines to capture the bare minimum
- [19:26:44] <bewest>
so it would help if someone more familiar with what everyone is saying could flesh it out a bit
- [19:26:44] <sreynen>
as much as I'm able to judge, I'll try
- [19:28:57] * whafro (n=whafro@dsl092-150-081.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [19:28:57] <jibot>
whafro is M. Jackson Wilkinson, a designer/developer for Grassroots Enterprise in Washington, DC
- [19:29:20] * TylerR wonders why http://linkedin.com is down.
- [19:30:04] * bewest considers changing the topic to include the me self issue
- [19:30:12] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
- [19:30:12] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
- [19:36:55] <mfbot>
[[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=13094 * ScottReynen * (+179) Canonical/Authoritative Hcard -
- [19:37:59] * TylerR (n=tylerr@68.178.101.38) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
- [19:38:24] * TylerR (n=tylerr@68.178.101.38) has joined #microformats
- [19:40:51] <mfbot>
[[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=13095 * ScottReynen * (+427) Canonical/Authoritative Hcard -
- [19:41:32] <mfbot>
[[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=13096 * ScottReynen * (+0) Canonical/Authoritative Hcard -
- [19:44:12] * JMulder_ (n=me@ip4da10ac9.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #microformats
- [19:51:04] * bear_afk is now known as bear
- [19:59:24] <ianloic>
oh, how's this for a crazy idea
- [20:00:00] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) Quit ()
- [20:00:09] <mfbot>
[[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=13097 * RCanine * (+585) Issues -
- [20:00:12] <ianloic>
in this free-flowing world of the internet defining an "authoritative" hCard is way hard, but being able to link to a preferred hCard should be easy
- [20:00:15] <ianloic>
right?
- [20:00:43] <ianloic>
and doesn't that solve what we really want which is our crawlers to know where to look for the "best" hCard for a given person on a page?
- [20:02:12] * JMulder (n=me@ip4da10ac9.direct-adsl.nl) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [20:02:12] * JMulder_ is now known as JMulder
- [20:15:59] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [20:15:59] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [20:15:59] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [20:16:09] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
- [20:16:09] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
- [20:16:10] <TylerR>
Hey there tantek.
- [20:16:10] <mfbot>
[[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=13098 * AndyMabbett * (+140) Canonical/Authoritative Hcard - me not for third parties (& fmt)
- [20:16:59] * jcw9 (n=jonathan@WILLIAMSJ01.ADMIN.ED.NYU.EDU) has joined #microformats
- [20:16:59] <jibot>
jcw9 is Jon Williams and can be found online at http://wizardishungry.com/blog/
- [20:18:06] <mfbot>
[[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=13099 * AndyMabbett * (+128) Concatenating values - response
- [20:21:18] * danbri (n=chatzill@83.68.25.8) has joined #microformats
- [20:21:18] <jibot>
danbri is that foaf guy from http://danbri.org/
- [20:21:31] <jcw9>
Hi gang
- [20:21:48] <mfbot>
[[citation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples&diff=0&oldid=13100 * AndyMabbett * (+166) Wikipedia - note on links in values
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- [20:22:49] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [20:22:49] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
- [20:22:49] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
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- [20:24:41] <TylerR>
Hey there kingryan.
- [20:24:47] <kingryan>
hi TylerR
- [20:24:56] <TylerR>
How's your day progressing?
- [20:25:03] <kingryan>
alright
- [20:25:35] <TylerR>
Good good. We're in a bit of a fluster over here. Our connection to MS has apparently gone south and we have some deadlines in an hour.
- [20:25:49] <TylerR>
So needless to say, it's an exciting afternoon. :)
- [20:27:29] <mfbot>
[[citation-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples&diff=0&oldid=13101 * AndyMabbett * (+5) Wikipedia - (
- [20:27:34] <kingryan>
we're in between two semi-planned colo power outages
- [20:27:46] <kingryan>
which involve hundreds of servers :D
- [20:28:00] <TylerR>
Yikes! So tell me how this is semi-planned? haha
- [20:28:50] <mfbot>
[[citation-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples&diff=0&oldid=13102 * AndyMabbett * (+9) merge dupe sections
- [20:28:52] <kingryan>
well, the UPS is broken (unplanned) so they have to replace it
- [20:29:26] <TylerR>
Ah well that would do it. :) Since we're off-site, we never have any knowledge of why things break, we just see our connections drop like flies. :)
- [20:30:00] <kingryan>
gotta run, lunchtime
- [20:32:19] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
- [20:32:56] <TylerR>
Later kingryan!
- [20:34:10] <DerrickPallas>
Anyone know how the <base> element interacts with xml:base?
- [20:35:05] <gsnedders>
DerrickPallas: in what spec? XHTML doesn't allow xml:base.
- [20:36:28] <tantek>
DerrickPallas - my advice: ignore <xml:base> in any form of (X)HTML- it is not in wide use on the Web, and W3C failed (AFAIK) to define <base>/<xml:base> interactions and therefore the feature is under-specified for interoperable implementability, and thus SHOULD be ignored by implementers.
- [20:37:09] <DerrickPallas>
Great.
- [20:37:23] * bear is now known as bear_afk
- [20:37:40] <tantek>
DerrickPallas, would that be worth putting in the FAQ?
- [20:37:43] <DerrickPallas>
What about nested @class="value"? Should I just take the top level?
- [20:38:11] <mfbot>
[[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=13103 * DerrickPallas * (+289) Concatenating values -
- [20:38:27] <tantek>
DerrickPallas, please provide an example of what you mean by nested @class="value" and we can then evaluate what current hcard-parsing says to do with them.
- [20:38:32] <DerrickPallas>
There is a unit test for hCard that checks xml:base and <base>
- [20:39:02] <tantek>
URL?
- [20:39:04] <DerrickPallas>
<span class="value">foo <span class="value">bar</span> </span>
- [20:40:20] <DerrickPallas>
Rephrase: there is one unit test for <base> and two for xml:base.
- [20:40:30] <DerrickPallas>
http://microformats.org/tests/hcard/08-relative-url-base.html
- [20:40:35] <DerrickPallas>
http://microformats.org/tests/hcard/09-relative-url-xmlbase-1.html
- [20:40:39] <DerrickPallas>
http://microformats.org/tests/hcard/10-relative-url-xmlbase-2.html
- [20:42:10] <tantek>
testing <base> is essential
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- [20:42:48] <tantek>
DerrickPallas, please send an email re: <xml:base> to microformats-dev, this may be a longer discussion than can be resolved in a few seconds in IRC.
- [20:42:55] <DerrickPallas>
OK.
- [20:43:00] <tantek>
thanks!
- [20:43:07] <DerrickPallas>
I'm at work, so I'll send it when I get home.
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- [21:00:33] <jibot>
monkinetic is redmonk is SteveIvy is Steve Ivy - http://redmonk.net
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- [21:19:39] <therealadam>
anyone here from LinkedIn?
- [21:22:58] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) has joined #microformats
- [21:31:15] <TylerR>
therealadam: SteveGanz works there but I haven't seen him come on today.
- [21:31:46] <therealadam>
TylerR: ahh, bummer. thanks!
- [21:31:49] <TylerR>
Looks like he was around about a day ago.
- [21:31:55] <TylerR>
Sure thing. :)
- [21:32:11] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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- [21:32:55] <TylerR>
therealadam: Were you interested in the hResume changes?
- [21:33:18] <therealadam>
TylerR: somewhat...trying to figure out how I could (politely) use it
- [21:33:26] <therealadam>
not sure what their take on spidering is
- [21:33:55] <TylerR>
Ah so you mean scouring their user pages and extracting the hResume info?
- [21:34:02] <therealadam>
yeah
- [21:34:14] * mylesbraithwaite (n=mylesbra@bas10-toronto12-1096761106.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #microformats
- [21:34:56] <TylerR>
You'd have to ask them about their policy. That might be running into privacy policy issues.
- [21:35:14] <TylerR>
Now if they had an API...
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- [21:35:47] <therealadam>
TylerR: well their ToS forbid spidering, but on oberkirch's podcast he said the public profiles are free to spider
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- [21:36:08] <therealadam>
so...want to get a consistent answer before I unleash the AutoHounds (TM)
- [21:36:49] <TylerR>
:)
- [21:40:35] <TylerR>
Sounds interesting. :)
- [21:47:00] <therealadam>
it would be fun to pull off, a great showcase for hResume and open data
- [21:52:38] <TylerR>
Definitely.
- [21:55:33] * bear_afk is now known as bear
- [21:57:16] <TylerR>
I have a whole 2 contacts to my name, haha.
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- [22:01:10] <OpenStandards>
TylerR, isn?t html 5 moving away from microformats in some ways
- [22:01:21] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
- [22:01:21] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
- [22:01:43] <TylerR>
I haven't really read into HTML5 much other than skim the features and elements. What examples do you see?
- [22:02:22] <OpenStandards>
like footer, address.. mind you that relates the page
- [22:02:59] <OpenStandards>
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#small0
- [22:03:08] <OpenStandards>
TylerR, have a look at that
- [22:03:10] <kingryan>
OpenStandards: how woudl that be a moving away from mf's?
- [22:03:13] <TylerR>
Righto.
- [22:04:14] * Jonbo (n=Jonbo123@adsl-074-229-245-180.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
- [22:06:51] <OpenStandards>
its more of a question that a statement sorry kingryan for the confusion caused
- [22:07:27] <TylerR>
Hmm... I would think HTML 5 would only help to offer more uf hooks to developers.
- [22:07:35] <TylerR>
More semantic hooks rather.
- [22:08:13] <TylerR>
Huh... this is interesting, "© Copyright 2004-2006 Apple Computer, Inc., Mozilla Foundation, and Opera Software ASA."
- [22:08:35] <OpenStandards>
what is?
- [22:08:35] <kingryan>
they're all members of WHATWG
- [22:09:03] <TylerR>
Yeah, that's definitely promising.
- [22:09:17] <TylerR>
Opera, Firefox, and Safari support for HTML 5.
- [22:10:11] <tantek>
TylerR - there is a #whatwg channel if you're curious about getting answers directly from the folks involved.
- [22:10:26] <TylerR>
Oh very nice tantek.
- [22:10:31] <TylerR>
Never knew. Thanks. :)
- [22:10:41] <OpenStandards>
firefox is being a bitch to me
- [22:11:12] <OpenStandards>
never knew about that channel before
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- [22:13:39] * mkaply wonders where people thing up sick test cases like this
- [22:13:39] <mkaply>
<div class="tel">
- [22:13:39] <mkaply>
<span class="type">home</span>
- [22:13:39] <mkaply>
<span class="value">+1</span>
- [22:13:39] <mkaply>
<span class="value">415</span>
- [22:13:40] <mkaply>
<span class="value">555</span>
- [22:13:42] <mkaply>
<span class="value">1233</span>
- [22:13:44] <mkaply>
</div>
- [22:14:12] <kingryan>
mkaply: :D
- [22:14:50] <mkaply>
maybe value shouldn't have been reused for both a telephone number value and a way to split something among multiple niodes
- [22:15:59] <TylerR>
mkaply: That's just plain evil.
- [22:16:03] * Kilianvalkhof (n=Kay@a80-100-213-232.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined #microformats
- [22:16:03] <jibot>
Kilianvalkhof is Kilian Valkhof, he makes websites and blogs at http://kilianvalkhof.com
- [22:16:21] * edsu (n=esummers@208.68.173.106) Quit ("leaving")
- [22:16:21] <mkaply>
TylerR: But I will make it work. It's my duty
- [22:16:45] <TylerR>
Rightly so! :D
- [22:19:15] <TylerR>
tantek: Are there any plans for a uf conference of any type in the near future?
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- [22:20:19] <tantek>
TylerR, there are conferences with microformats talks and events, and microformats are discussed at most Barcamps as well. See http://microformats.org/wiki/events and http://barcamp.org/ for more info.
- [22:20:59] <TylerR>
Righto, I suppose uf is still a growing beast and will have a conference of its own at some point. :)
- [22:22:04] <mkaply>
tantek: none of those events are tagged with hCalendar :)
- [22:28:23] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-683afd42341015e8) Quit ("Leaving")
- [22:29:26] <mfbot>
[[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=13104 * AbsaLoM * (+104) 0.1 hAtom examples -
- [22:33:23] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13105 * AbsaLoM * (+107) New Examples -
- [22:33:53] <tantek>
mkaply, the events on barcamp.org are all tagged with hCalendar
- [22:34:12] <tantek>
on the wiki though, no, still figuring how to best use hCalendar in MediaWiki - suggestions welcome!
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- [22:58:36] <tantek>
man, way too much traffic recently on the microformats-discuss list
- [22:59:07] <tantek>
folks we need to start turning some of those messages into wiki edits instead which parallelize much better.
- [22:59:11] <TylerR>
I was thinking about subscribing today... should I wait till it dies down? ;)
- [23:00:01] <tantek>
no you should subscribe and read the flow just to start to familiarize yourself with discussions/thoughts/interactions
- [23:00:20] <tantek>
but perhaps do that for a few days at least before jumping into any of the discussions.
- [23:00:26] <TylerR>
Oh definitely. :)
- [23:02:07] <TylerR>
So folks, I don't know if anyone here follows the yearly CSS Reboot, but it sort of donned on me today about the benefits of such an event aimed at implementing uf.
- [23:03:28] <TylerR>
If you want to see how the CSS Reboot works, here's their event site: http://www.cssreboot.com/
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- [23:06:20] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13106 * AndyMabbett * (+89) move last to problem section: no examples on cited page
- [23:06:57] <TylerR>
I don't know if anyone would be interested in organizing something with me, but I think something like that could drum up a good amount of interest outside the immediate community.
- [23:07:24] <bewest>
tantek: yes, scott and I tried to shuffle more people into IRC and the wiki
- [23:08:26] <tantek>
thanks bewest - when I have a moment, I'll chime in on the list with suggested ways of working that use the wiki more in general than the list...
- [23:08:46] <mfbot>
[[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=13107 * AndyMabbett * (+437) Examples in the wild - create "problem" section; move last there (no examples on cited page)
- [23:08:55] <bewest>
and if a new list is created, that would probably help. I'm also curious what the other admins think of making a stronger disctinction between collecting techniques and creating formats
- [23:11:46] * Kilianvalkhof (n=Kay@a80-100-213-232.adsl.xs4all.nl) Quit ("Leaving")
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- [23:18:55] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
- [23:21:06] <sreynen>
i don't know how to say "you didn't really need to share that with the entire email list" without being a jerk
- [23:22:42] <sreynen>
but that's what i think after reading many of these emails
- [23:22:46] <sreynen>
maybe i'm just a jerk
- [23:24:47] <TylerR>
Nah, if you're anything like me, you like to run a tight, clean ship. :)
- [23:27:56] * davecardwell (n=davecard@cpc4-grim9-0-0-cust251.nott.cable.ntl.com) has joined #microformats
- [23:27:56] <jibot>
davecardwell is Dave Cardwell of http://davecardwell.co.uk/. He designs webs and generally geeks about in York, England.
- [23:36:10] <TylerR>
Any thoughts on if that would be something you all would like to see? :)
- [23:46:13] <DerrickPallas>
especially people that top post and leave the entire thread in the response
- [23:46:18] <DerrickPallas>
That bugs the crap out of me.
- [23:47:55] <bewest>
<.<
- [23:47:57] <bewest>
>.>
- [23:50:59] <DerrickPallas>
I'm looking for a good xslt processor written in C/C++. Any suggestions?
- [23:59:27] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [23:59:27] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
- [23:59:27] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
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