IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-01-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:00:14] <tantek> DerrickPallas - could you add problematic hCards to the hcard-examples-in-wild wiki page's "Examples with Problems" section and document the problems?
  2. [00:00:43] <DerrickPallas> No problem.
  3. [00:01:02] <tantek> thanks much!
  4. [00:01:31] <DerrickPallas> I think the onus discussion stopped awhile ago.
  5. [00:01:56] <tantek> the answer can be derived by understanding scientific method
  6. [00:03:25] <DerrickPallas> Let's see if I can find the problem pages.
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  11. [00:30:15] <mfbot> [[irc-people]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=13082 * Mike * (+53) add self to ircpeople
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  13. [00:31:24] <mmc_> ?def mmc_ is Michael McCracken and can be found online at http://michael-mccracken.net/
  14. [00:31:24] <jibot> mmc_ is Michael McCracken and can be found online at http://michael-mccracken.net/
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  28. [02:39:47] <jibot> mmc_ is Michael McCracken and can be found online at http://michael-mccracken.net/
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  37. [03:42:38] <evanpro> Hey, so, I asked this yesterday, AFAIK no response
  38. [03:42:57] <evanpro> I read a blog post that said that Wikipedia had announced support for microformats
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  58. [05:02:30] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  69. [06:21:37] <TylerR> Evening all.
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  78. [07:25:57] <jibot> bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
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  81. [07:30:30] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
  82. [07:31:40] <TylerR> Hi folks.
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  92. [08:03:33] <mfbot> [[citation-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13083 * Mike * (+0) Examples -
  93. [08:10:24] <mfbot> [[citation-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13084 * Mike * (-158) Examples - deleted question about root element, which is now answered by a later section (answer is: use 'hcite')
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  96. [08:20:30] <mfbot> [[citation-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13085 * Mike * (+516) Working straw schema - add changes from discussion of date fields on mailing list
  97. [08:26:26] <mfbot> [[citation-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13086 * Mike * (+669) Discussion of Straw Format elements - add summary of list discussion of date fields
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  99. [08:55:34] <mfbot> [[species-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13087 * GerardM * (+0) Straw man proposal -
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  107. [09:35:19] <jibot> BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk ( 0000/ 0100 GMT)
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  109. [09:54:04] <jibot> davecardwell is Dave Cardwell of http://davecardwell.co.uk/. He designs webs and generally geeks about in York, England.
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  111. [09:54:26] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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  124. [10:45:08] <jibot> julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
  125. [10:50:49] <KevinMarks> hi julian
  126. [10:51:27] <KevinMarks> I had something I wanted to ask you - have people converged on a way to put tags into mp3s, and into iTunes?
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  130. [11:23:20] <mfbot> [[podcasts]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=podcasts&diff=0&oldid=13088 * Brian * (+237) Added Steve Ganz hResume interview
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  134. [11:41:28] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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  136. [12:54:25] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13089 * AdamDarowski * (+200) New Examples -
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  141. [13:28:40] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  147. [13:41:06] <jibot> NatBat is Natalie Downe and can be found online at http://notes.natbat.net
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  152. [14:08:13] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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  156. [14:11:33] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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  159. [14:34:09] <jibot> ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com
  160. [14:36:28] <briansuda> hm, interesting! use hCard to autofill user-data http://philwilson.org/blog/2007/01/videntity-imports-hcard-and-foaf.html
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  162. [14:46:21] <jibot> Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
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  165. [14:57:54] <jibot> edsu is Ed Summers from the Library of Congress <http://www.inkdroid.org>
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  167. [15:07:37] <jibot> Charl is Charl van Niekerk and writes about standards at http://standards.za.net/
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  170. [15:24:45] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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  172. [15:35:28] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at> from Austria (TZ: 0100)
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  180. [16:56:22] <jibot> TylerR is Tyler Roehmholdt and is brewing up something social.
  181. [16:56:40] <TylerR> ?forgetme
  182. [16:56:40] <jibot> I have expunged TylerR from my mind
  183. [16:56:52] <TylerR> I swore I did that yesterday.
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  185. [16:58:04] <ajturner> TylerR -jibot loves you too much for that
  186. [16:58:13] <TylerR> It would seem so!
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  189. [16:58:46] <TylerR> How's the morning going?
  190. [16:58:55] <TylerR> Or afternoon/evening, depending on the local. :)
  191. [16:59:28] * ryanlowe (n=blog@CPE00045a734098-CM001225d89e7c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
  192. [16:59:29] <jibot> ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
  193. [17:10:33] * ajturner (n=irc@d14-69-228-190.try.wideopenwest.com) Quit ()
  194. [17:11:41] * iand (n=iand@talis.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  195. [17:12:54] * DerrickPallas (n=chatzill@209.237.236.227) has joined #microformats
  196. [17:13:03] <DerrickPallas> Howdy all.
  197. [17:14:17] * danja (n=danja@host251-220-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
  198. [17:14:17] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
  199. [17:14:19] <DerrickPallas> Is there a way to tell a search indexer to ignore a chunk of HTML?
  200. [17:16:29] <briansuda> not a specific chunk
  201. [17:16:36] <briansuda> just the whole page, or whole directory
  202. [17:16:48] <briansuda> or you can obfuscate the data so Spiders don't find it
  203. [17:16:49] <kapowaz> contain it within an iframe and exclude that page ?
  204. [17:16:59] <kapowaz> for maximum evil
  205. [17:17:12] <briansuda> or output with document.write
  206. [17:17:18] <kapowaz> oh, even more evil.
  207. [17:17:22] <briansuda> :)
  208. [17:19:27] <TylerR> Hi DerrickPallas.
  209. [17:20:19] <TylerR> Hmm, that's a dandy idea though... a uf for ignoring chunks of HTML.
  210. [17:20:48] <TylerR> briansuda: What's the current obfuscation method to do that?
  211. [17:21:05] <TylerR> Or is that the document.write?
  212. [17:21:06] <kapowaz> why would that be a microformat?
  213. [17:21:10] <briansuda> there already was a rel-robots proposal which fell apart
  214. [17:21:26] <kapowaz> fell apart? howcome?
  215. [17:21:40] <RobertBachmann> not enough intresset, I guess
  216. [17:21:47] <briansuda> microformats document real world publishing
  217. [17:22:00] * TylerR (n=tylerr@68.178.101.38) Quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
  218. [17:22:07] <briansuda> no one currently 'sections' off parts of a page for non-indexing
  219. [17:22:14] * TylerR (n=tylerr@68.178.101.38) has joined #microformats
  220. [17:25:18] <KevinMarks> we had a talk about this at the blogspam summit, but never really converged on anything
  221. [17:26:21] * SamRose (n=chatzill@c-71-197-25-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  222. [17:26:22] <jibot> SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
  223. [17:27:16] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  224. [17:27:42] <DerrickPallas> rel-robots is less interesting to me
  225. [17:28:01] <DerrickPallas> I just want to figure out how to ignore a menu.
  226. [17:28:06] <DerrickPallas> Or in a blog, user comments.
  227. [17:28:17] <DerrickPallas> Which would probably cut down on blog spam.
  228. [17:29:07] <kapowaz> surely stopping the spam from being published in the first place would be a more worthwhile solution?
  229. [17:29:48] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-683afd42341015e8) has joined #microformats
  230. [17:29:48] <jibot> mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
  231. [17:32:50] <TylerR> KevinMarks: Is there an interest in something like that? (negating chunks of HTML?)
  232. [17:33:13] * SamRose (n=chatzill@c-71-197-25-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.1/2006120417]")
  233. [17:33:35] <RobertBachmann> negating = ignoring?
  234. [17:35:51] <TylerR> RobertBachmann: Indeed. Perhaps I should have clarified. :)
  235. [17:36:00] <DerrickPallas> <del> negates
  236. [17:36:01] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit ()
  237. [17:36:14] <DerrickPallas> that's not the same as marking something as the main content
  238. [17:37:06] <DerrickPallas> Actually, I suspect that what most people do is put their main content in a <div class="$foo"> where $foo is main, content, article, or something obscure.
  239. [17:37:41] * BenWard (n=BenWard@host81-156-224-190.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
  240. [17:37:43] <TylerR> Sure DerrickPallas, I mean, has there been interest in your situation before, where people have wanted a robot/spider not to take certain chunks of content into consideration?
  241. [17:38:07] <DerrickPallas> Yes.
  242. [17:38:19] <TylerR> And is there an easy way do this?
  243. [17:38:30] <briansuda> obfuscate
  244. [17:38:30] <TylerR> (we're talking uf easy) :)
  245. [17:38:37] <DerrickPallas> Sure seems that way.
  246. [17:38:56] <DerrickPallas> There are two solutions: say what you want to indexer to index or indicate what you don't want it to.
  247. [17:39:16] <TylerR> And this is done via obfuscation?
  248. [17:39:46] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) has joined #microformats
  249. [17:39:46] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
  250. [17:39:52] <DerrickPallas> Since the default is to index everything, it won't work to make a page explicitly define what they want the indexer to index without some queue that a mode switch has taken place.
  251. [17:40:03] <DerrickPallas> que, rather
  252. [17:42:31] <TylerR> Oh, indexing the content is fine, I'm more curious about something akin to a rel-nofollow like attribute that says, "index this, but don't apply the content in this chunk to any algorithms when ranking or parsing for search terms".
  253. [17:42:53] <briansuda> these guys did some Microformats stuff last year, i'm sure they would be interested again this year: http://www.ukoln.ac.uk/web-focus/events/workshops/webmaster-2007/
  254. [17:45:41] * ianloic (n=ian@71.5.56.162.ptr.us.xo.net) has joined #microformats
  255. [17:45:54] <ianloic> I like that microformats are moving towards pirate speak
  256. [17:46:22] <ianloic> arrr! this here hCard be me self!
  257. [17:47:16] <TylerR> Eh?
  258. [17:47:34] <RobertBachmann> lol
  259. [17:47:43] * pecus (n=pecus@194.65.5.235) Quit ()
  260. [17:48:00] <DerrickPallas> That's pretty funny.
  261. [17:48:14] <RobertBachmann> TylerR: read the latest post on uf-discuss
  262. [17:48:23] <TylerR> I haven't subscribed. :(
  263. [17:48:31] <TylerR> I need to.
  264. [17:48:38] <bewest> html5 should help a lot
  265. [17:48:45] <TylerR> Is there an archive floating around?
  266. [17:49:00] <ianloic> I should read back and try to understand why "me self" was required.
  267. [17:49:20] <bewest> it'll have dedicated elements to demarcate which sections are the main content, which parts of menus, headers etc...
  268. [17:49:56] <aconbere|work> and won't be implimented in IE for another 5 years *sigh*
  269. [17:50:15] <TylerR> HTML5 looks to be more promising than XHTML2.
  270. [17:50:40] <ianloic> just use xaml
  271. [17:51:33] <DerrickPallas> XHTML is dead.
  272. [17:51:36] <DerrickPallas> Long live XHTML.
  273. [17:52:32] <TylerR> Isn't that a Crown Royal ad DerrickPallas? :)
  274. [17:53:09] * briansuda (n=briansud@82.221.34.106) Quit ()
  275. [17:55:06] <KevinMarks> I love 'me self', it's so Irish
  276. [17:55:11] <KevinMarks> reminds me of my grandma
  277. [17:56:08] * TylerR grins.
  278. [17:56:21] <bewest> shouldn't we come up with some other options to compare?
  279. [17:56:33] * Charl (n=Charl@196.21.192.15) Quit ()
  280. [17:57:06] <bewest> are there any other microformats that would benefit from identitifying the address of some vetted information for which "self" wouldn't make sense?
  281. [17:59:55] <OpenStandards> TylerR, html 5 where can i find out more information on that
  282. [18:00:17] <TylerR> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/
  283. [18:01:57] <OpenStandards> thanks
  284. [18:02:38] * adactio (n=jeremy@host86-139-178-30.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  285. [18:02:57] <TylerR> You bet.
  286. [18:04:20] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) Quit (Read error: 148 (No route to host))
  287. [18:04:48] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  288. [18:04:56] * RobertBachmann (n=rb@N054P029.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit ("Leaving.")
  289. [18:05:13] <OpenStandards> am reading now :)
  290. [18:05:30] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  291. [18:05:30] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  292. [18:08:00] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
  293. [18:08:19] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) has joined #microformats
  294. [18:09:13] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  295. [18:20:00] <bengee> does the VoteLinks MF have a published xmdp file already?
  296. [18:21:12] * bengee found the xfn and hcard ones, wondered if there are any others already
  297. [18:26:11] * adactio (n=jeremy@host86-139-178-30.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) has left #microformats
  298. [18:36:46] <bewest> afaik all mf have an xmdp
  299. [18:37:01] <bewest> bengee: if you find a format missing an XMDP, that is considered a bug, I think
  300. [18:37:55] * sreynen (n=sreynen@12-217-44-131.client.mchsi.com) Quit ()
  301. [18:37:56] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
  302. [18:38:03] * mkaply loves the "pick at most one" in the XFN family section - clearly these folks ain't never heard of inbreeding
  303. [18:38:51] <bengee> I meant published XMDPs, bewest, i.e. those I can use to generate URIs from the listed terms...
  304. [18:38:53] * sreynen (n=sreynen@12-217-44-131.client.mchsi.com) has joined #microformats
  305. [18:38:53] * ChanServ sets mode +o sreynen
  306. [18:39:47] <bengee> only xfn and hcard seem to have a dedicated xmdp location so far
  307. [18:40:08] <bewest> mkaply: does that meet the 80-20 criteria ;-)
  308. [18:40:26] <mkaply> bewest: depends on what state you live in :)
  309. [18:41:22] * kwijibo (n=kwijibo@87.112.15.1.bbplus.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net) has left #microformats
  310. [18:41:44] <bengee> it may meet the 80-20 criteria *within* the kelly family ;)
  311. [18:42:27] <bengee> (which prolly noone outside of germany knows...)
  312. [18:44:56] <sreynen> this rel="self me" discussion is flooding the discuss list, and doesn't seem to be progressing
  313. [18:46:05] <bewest> agreed
  314. [18:46:41] <bewest> sreynen: any suggestions?
  315. [18:47:02] <sreynen> it's not clear to me that everyone is discussing the same use case
  316. [18:47:07] <bewest> hmmm
  317. [18:47:12] <sreynen> so i think it would help to review that
  318. [18:47:22] * Ronnos (n=chatzill@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #microformats
  319. [18:47:23] <jibot> Ronnos is Ron Kok, a friendly student Communication and Multimedia Design in The Netherlands
  320. [18:47:23] <bewest> yes, the topic has expanded into trust metrics and whatnot
  321. [18:47:27] <ianloic> this Ryan CAnnon chap is a troublemaker
  322. [18:47:44] <sreynen> for example, all of the examples i've seen involve a single person publishing multiple hCards of himself
  323. [18:48:13] <sreynen> yet many people are talking about 3rd parties publishing hCards and pointing back to the subject's own hCard
  324. [18:48:25] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) has joined #microformats
  325. [18:48:28] <sreynen> do those both fall under the scope of the problem trying to be solved?
  326. [18:48:43] <bewest> I don't know
  327. [18:48:58] <sreynen> heh, i wonder if anyone does
  328. [18:49:17] <bewest> would putting up a wiki page dedicated to this issue help ameliorate the communication problem?
  329. [18:49:24] <bewest> along with inviting more people to IRC?
  330. [18:49:38] <bewest> where would it go? hcard-issues ?
  331. [18:53:15] <ianloic> eventually everyone ends up wanting to solve all the hard distributed identity problems with hCard :(
  332. [18:54:47] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  333. [18:55:13] <bewest> I think that's only a small part of the conversation
  334. [18:59:51] * bengee (n=bengee@82.207.128.166) Quit ("Leaving")
  335. [19:00:53] <DerrickPallas> hCard + OpenID = <3
  336. [19:02:13] * monkinetic (i=redmonk@bia.crschmidt.net) has joined #microformats
  337. [19:02:14] <jibot> monkinetic is redmonk is SteveIvy is Steve Ivy - http://redmonk.net
  338. [19:03:35] <mfbot> [[citation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples&diff=0&oldid=13090 * Mike * (+616) English Wikipdia - Add info about wikipedia book infobox template
  339. [19:05:29] <sreynen> bewest, I think either/both wiki or IRC would improve matters
  340. [19:05:44] <sreynen> both keep more background with the discussion than a series of clipped emails
  341. [19:05:57] * Kilianvalkhof (i=Kay@a80-100-213-232.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined #microformats
  342. [19:05:57] <jibot> Kilianvalkhof is Kilian Valkhof, he makes websites and blogs at http://kilianvalkhof.com
  343. [19:16:21] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=13091 * DerrickPallas * (+311) Concatenating values -
  344. [19:16:52] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=13092 * BenWest * (+940) Template - attempt to add the rel="me self" issue. please add to this.
  345. [19:17:24] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("http://gmachina.com - gaming feeds in bulk")
  346. [19:19:23] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=13093 * BenWest * (+30) Issues - added to TOC for canonical/authoritative issue. fixed some formatting
  347. [19:19:35] <bewest> sreynen: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-issues#Canonical.2FAuthoritative_Hcard
  348. [19:21:45] * OpenStandards (n=vir@ACBD0BC0.ipt.aol.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  349. [19:22:17] <sreynen> bewest, great, thanks
  350. [19:22:52] <bewest> and sent a message to the list asking for more participation via IRC and wiki
  351. [19:23:07] <sreynen> great
  352. [19:23:40] <sreynen> i'm personally very interested in the topic, but i worry the flood will drive some away from the list
  353. [19:23:45] * monkinetic (i=redmonk@bia.crschmidt.net) has left #microformats
  354. [19:24:13] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) Quit ()
  355. [19:25:37] <bewest> yeah
  356. [19:25:52] <bewest> sreynen: I came to the discussion relatively late
  357. [19:26:01] <bewest> sreynen: can you make sure what's on the wiki is representative?
  358. [19:26:05] <bewest> of the discussion
  359. [19:26:29] <bewest> I only added a few lines to capture the bare minimum
  360. [19:26:44] <bewest> so it would help if someone more familiar with what everyone is saying could flesh it out a bit
  361. [19:26:44] <sreynen> as much as I'm able to judge, I'll try
  362. [19:28:57] * whafro (n=whafro@dsl092-150-081.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  363. [19:28:57] <jibot> whafro is M. Jackson Wilkinson, a designer/developer for Grassroots Enterprise in Washington, DC
  364. [19:29:20] * TylerR wonders why http://linkedin.com is down.
  365. [19:30:04] * bewest considers changing the topic to include the me self issue
  366. [19:30:12] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  367. [19:30:12] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  368. [19:36:55] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=13094 * ScottReynen * (+179) Canonical/Authoritative Hcard -
  369. [19:37:59] * TylerR (n=tylerr@68.178.101.38) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  370. [19:38:24] * TylerR (n=tylerr@68.178.101.38) has joined #microformats
  371. [19:40:51] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=13095 * ScottReynen * (+427) Canonical/Authoritative Hcard -
  372. [19:41:32] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=13096 * ScottReynen * (+0) Canonical/Authoritative Hcard -
  373. [19:44:12] * JMulder_ (n=me@ip4da10ac9.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #microformats
  374. [19:51:04] * bear_afk is now known as bear
  375. [19:59:24] <ianloic> oh, how's this for a crazy idea
  376. [20:00:00] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) Quit ()
  377. [20:00:09] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=13097 * RCanine * (+585) Issues -
  378. [20:00:12] <ianloic> in this free-flowing world of the internet defining an "authoritative" hCard is way hard, but being able to link to a preferred hCard should be easy
  379. [20:00:15] <ianloic> right?
  380. [20:00:43] <ianloic> and doesn't that solve what we really want which is our crawlers to know where to look for the "best" hCard for a given person on a page?
  381. [20:02:12] * JMulder (n=me@ip4da10ac9.direct-adsl.nl) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  382. [20:02:12] * JMulder_ is now known as JMulder
  383. [20:15:59] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  384. [20:15:59] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  385. [20:15:59] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  386. [20:16:09] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  387. [20:16:09] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  388. [20:16:10] <TylerR> Hey there tantek.
  389. [20:16:10] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=13098 * AndyMabbett * (+140) Canonical/Authoritative Hcard - me not for third parties (& fmt)
  390. [20:16:59] * jcw9 (n=jonathan@WILLIAMSJ01.ADMIN.ED.NYU.EDU) has joined #microformats
  391. [20:16:59] <jibot> jcw9 is Jon Williams and can be found online at http://wizardishungry.com/blog/
  392. [20:18:06] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=13099 * AndyMabbett * (+128) Concatenating values - response
  393. [20:21:18] * danbri (n=chatzill@83.68.25.8) has joined #microformats
  394. [20:21:18] <jibot> danbri is that foaf guy from http://danbri.org/
  395. [20:21:31] <jcw9> Hi gang
  396. [20:21:48] <mfbot> [[citation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples&diff=0&oldid=13100 * AndyMabbett * (+166) Wikipedia - note on links in values
  397. [20:22:05] * danbri (n=chatzill@83.68.25.8) has left #microformats
  398. [20:22:49] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  399. [20:22:49] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  400. [20:22:49] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  401. [20:24:04] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  402. [20:24:41] <TylerR> Hey there kingryan.
  403. [20:24:47] <kingryan> hi TylerR
  404. [20:24:56] <TylerR> How's your day progressing?
  405. [20:25:03] <kingryan> alright
  406. [20:25:35] <TylerR> Good good. We're in a bit of a fluster over here. Our connection to MS has apparently gone south and we have some deadlines in an hour.
  407. [20:25:49] <TylerR> So needless to say, it's an exciting afternoon. :)
  408. [20:27:29] <mfbot> [[citation-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples&diff=0&oldid=13101 * AndyMabbett * (+5) Wikipedia - (
  409. [20:27:34] <kingryan> we're in between two semi-planned colo power outages
  410. [20:27:46] <kingryan> which involve hundreds of servers :D
  411. [20:28:00] <TylerR> Yikes! So tell me how this is semi-planned? haha
  412. [20:28:50] <mfbot> [[citation-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples&diff=0&oldid=13102 * AndyMabbett * (+9) merge dupe sections
  413. [20:28:52] <kingryan> well, the UPS is broken (unplanned) so they have to replace it
  414. [20:29:26] <TylerR> Ah well that would do it. :) Since we're off-site, we never have any knowledge of why things break, we just see our connections drop like flies. :)
  415. [20:30:00] <kingryan> gotta run, lunchtime
  416. [20:32:19] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  417. [20:32:56] <TylerR> Later kingryan!
  418. [20:34:10] <DerrickPallas> Anyone know how the <base> element interacts with xml:base?
  419. [20:35:05] <gsnedders> DerrickPallas: in what spec? XHTML doesn't allow xml:base.
  420. [20:36:28] <tantek> DerrickPallas - my advice: ignore <xml:base> in any form of (X)HTML- it is not in wide use on the Web, and W3C failed (AFAIK) to define <base>/<xml:base> interactions and therefore the feature is under-specified for interoperable implementability, and thus SHOULD be ignored by implementers.
  421. [20:37:09] <DerrickPallas> Great.
  422. [20:37:23] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  423. [20:37:40] <tantek> DerrickPallas, would that be worth putting in the FAQ?
  424. [20:37:43] <DerrickPallas> What about nested @class="value"? Should I just take the top level?
  425. [20:38:11] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=13103 * DerrickPallas * (+289) Concatenating values -
  426. [20:38:27] <tantek> DerrickPallas, please provide an example of what you mean by nested @class="value" and we can then evaluate what current hcard-parsing says to do with them.
  427. [20:38:32] <DerrickPallas> There is a unit test for hCard that checks xml:base and <base>
  428. [20:39:02] <tantek> URL?
  429. [20:39:04] <DerrickPallas> <span class="value">foo <span class="value">bar</span> </span>
  430. [20:40:20] <DerrickPallas> Rephrase: there is one unit test for <base> and two for xml:base.
  431. [20:40:30] <DerrickPallas> http://microformats.org/tests/hcard/08-relative-url-base.html
  432. [20:40:35] <DerrickPallas> http://microformats.org/tests/hcard/09-relative-url-xmlbase-1.html
  433. [20:40:39] <DerrickPallas> http://microformats.org/tests/hcard/10-relative-url-xmlbase-2.html
  434. [20:42:10] <tantek> testing <base> is essential
  435. [20:42:11] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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  437. [20:42:37] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  438. [20:42:48] <tantek> DerrickPallas, please send an email re: <xml:base> to microformats-dev, this may be a longer discussion than can be resolved in a few seconds in IRC.
  439. [20:42:55] <DerrickPallas> OK.
  440. [20:43:00] <tantek> thanks!
  441. [20:43:07] <DerrickPallas> I'm at work, so I'll send it when I get home.
  442. [21:00:05] * OpenStandards (n=vir@ACBD0BC0.ipt.aol.com) has joined #microformats
  443. [21:00:33] * monkinetic (i=redmonk@bia.crschmidt.net) has joined #microformats
  444. [21:00:33] <jibot> monkinetic is redmonk is SteveIvy is Steve Ivy - http://redmonk.net
  445. [21:01:24] * Kilianvalkhof (i=Kay@a80-100-213-232.adsl.xs4all.nl) Quit ("Leaving")
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  447. [21:02:20] * miyagawa (n=miyagawa@monster.bulknews.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  450. [21:15:04] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@hq.last.fm) Quit ("goodbye, farewell, auf Wiedersehen")
  451. [21:16:34] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) Quit ()
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  453. [21:19:39] <therealadam> anyone here from LinkedIn?
  454. [21:22:58] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) has joined #microformats
  455. [21:31:15] <TylerR> therealadam: SteveGanz works there but I haven't seen him come on today.
  456. [21:31:46] <therealadam> TylerR: ahh, bummer. thanks!
  457. [21:31:49] <TylerR> Looks like he was around about a day ago.
  458. [21:31:55] <TylerR> Sure thing. :)
  459. [21:32:11] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  460. [21:32:16] * pecus (n=pecus@82.155.57.99) has joined #microformats
  461. [21:32:55] <TylerR> therealadam: Were you interested in the hResume changes?
  462. [21:33:18] <therealadam> TylerR: somewhat...trying to figure out how I could (politely) use it
  463. [21:33:26] <therealadam> not sure what their take on spidering is
  464. [21:33:55] <TylerR> Ah so you mean scouring their user pages and extracting the hResume info?
  465. [21:34:02] <therealadam> yeah
  466. [21:34:14] * mylesbraithwaite (n=mylesbra@bas10-toronto12-1096761106.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #microformats
  467. [21:34:56] <TylerR> You'd have to ask them about their policy. That might be running into privacy policy issues.
  468. [21:35:14] <TylerR> Now if they had an API...
  469. [21:35:21] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
  470. [21:35:33] * nostrich (n=nostrich@host86-137-41-248.range86-137.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  471. [21:35:47] <therealadam> TylerR: well their ToS forbid spidering, but on oberkirch's podcast he said the public profiles are free to spider
  472. [21:35:57] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  473. [21:35:57] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  474. [21:36:08] <therealadam> so...want to get a consistent answer before I unleash the AutoHounds (TM)
  475. [21:36:49] <TylerR> :)
  476. [21:40:35] <TylerR> Sounds interesting. :)
  477. [21:47:00] <therealadam> it would be fun to pull off, a great showcase for hResume and open data
  478. [21:52:38] <TylerR> Definitely.
  479. [21:55:33] * bear_afk is now known as bear
  480. [21:57:16] <TylerR> I have a whole 2 contacts to my name, haha.
  481. [21:59:54] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@a212-54-22-217.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has joined #microformats
  482. [22:00:13] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@a212-54-22-217.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  483. [22:01:10] <OpenStandards> TylerR, isn?t html 5 moving away from microformats in some ways
  484. [22:01:21] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  485. [22:01:21] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  486. [22:01:43] <TylerR> I haven't really read into HTML5 much other than skim the features and elements. What examples do you see?
  487. [22:02:22] <OpenStandards> like footer, address.. mind you that relates the page
  488. [22:02:59] <OpenStandards> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#small0
  489. [22:03:08] <OpenStandards> TylerR, have a look at that
  490. [22:03:10] <kingryan> OpenStandards: how woudl that be a moving away from mf's?
  491. [22:03:13] <TylerR> Righto.
  492. [22:04:14] * Jonbo (n=Jonbo123@adsl-074-229-245-180.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  493. [22:06:51] <OpenStandards> its more of a question that a statement sorry kingryan for the confusion caused
  494. [22:07:27] <TylerR> Hmm... I would think HTML 5 would only help to offer more uf hooks to developers.
  495. [22:07:35] <TylerR> More semantic hooks rather.
  496. [22:08:13] <TylerR> Huh... this is interesting, "© Copyright 2004-2006 Apple Computer, Inc., Mozilla Foundation, and Opera Software ASA."
  497. [22:08:35] <OpenStandards> what is?
  498. [22:08:35] <kingryan> they're all members of WHATWG
  499. [22:09:03] <TylerR> Yeah, that's definitely promising.
  500. [22:09:17] <TylerR> Opera, Firefox, and Safari support for HTML 5.
  501. [22:10:11] <tantek> TylerR - there is a #whatwg channel if you're curious about getting answers directly from the folks involved.
  502. [22:10:26] <TylerR> Oh very nice tantek.
  503. [22:10:31] <TylerR> Never knew. Thanks. :)
  504. [22:10:41] <OpenStandards> firefox is being a bitch to me
  505. [22:11:12] <OpenStandards> never knew about that channel before
  506. [22:12:48] * TylerR (n=tylerr@68.178.101.38) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  507. [22:13:04] * TylerR (n=tylerr@68.178.101.38) has joined #microformats
  508. [22:13:39] * mkaply wonders where people thing up sick test cases like this
  509. [22:13:39] <mkaply> <div class="tel">
  510. [22:13:39] <mkaply> <span class="type">home</span>
  511. [22:13:39] <mkaply> <span class="value">+1</span>
  512. [22:13:39] <mkaply> <span class="value">415</span>
  513. [22:13:40] <mkaply> <span class="value">555</span>
  514. [22:13:42] <mkaply> <span class="value">1233</span>
  515. [22:13:44] <mkaply> </div>
  516. [22:14:12] <kingryan> mkaply: :D
  517. [22:14:50] <mkaply> maybe value shouldn't have been reused for both a telephone number value and a way to split something among multiple niodes
  518. [22:15:59] <TylerR> mkaply: That's just plain evil.
  519. [22:16:03] * Kilianvalkhof (n=Kay@a80-100-213-232.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined #microformats
  520. [22:16:03] <jibot> Kilianvalkhof is Kilian Valkhof, he makes websites and blogs at http://kilianvalkhof.com
  521. [22:16:21] * edsu (n=esummers@208.68.173.106) Quit ("leaving")
  522. [22:16:21] <mkaply> TylerR: But I will make it work. It's my duty
  523. [22:16:45] <TylerR> Rightly so! :D
  524. [22:19:15] <TylerR> tantek: Are there any plans for a uf conference of any type in the near future?
  525. [22:19:43] * TheMaecenati (i=TheMaece@nat/apple/x-b4663aaa725ea96d) has joined #microformats
  526. [22:20:05] * pecus (n=pecus@82.155.57.99) Quit ()
  527. [22:20:10] * nostrich is now known as nstrich
  528. [22:20:19] <tantek> TylerR, there are conferences with microformats talks and events, and microformats are discussed at most Barcamps as well. See http://microformats.org/wiki/events and http://barcamp.org/ for more info.
  529. [22:20:59] <TylerR> Righto, I suppose uf is still a growing beast and will have a conference of its own at some point. :)
  530. [22:22:04] <mkaply> tantek: none of those events are tagged with hCalendar :)
  531. [22:28:23] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-683afd42341015e8) Quit ("Leaving")
  532. [22:29:26] <mfbot> [[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=13104 * AbsaLoM * (+104) 0.1 hAtom examples -
  533. [22:33:23] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13105 * AbsaLoM * (+107) New Examples -
  534. [22:33:53] <tantek> mkaply, the events on barcamp.org are all tagged with hCalendar
  535. [22:34:12] <tantek> on the wiki though, no, still figuring how to best use hCalendar in MediaWiki - suggestions welcome!
  536. [22:41:29] * ajturner (n=ajturner@d14-69-64-67.try.wideopenwest.com) has joined #microformats
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  542. [22:57:52] * TheMaecenati (i=TheMaece@nat/apple/x-b4663aaa725ea96d) Quit ()
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  544. [22:58:09] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
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  546. [22:58:36] <tantek> man, way too much traffic recently on the microformats-discuss list
  547. [22:59:07] <tantek> folks we need to start turning some of those messages into wiki edits instead which parallelize much better.
  548. [22:59:11] <TylerR> I was thinking about subscribing today... should I wait till it dies down? ;)
  549. [23:00:01] <tantek> no you should subscribe and read the flow just to start to familiarize yourself with discussions/thoughts/interactions
  550. [23:00:20] <tantek> but perhaps do that for a few days at least before jumping into any of the discussions.
  551. [23:00:26] <TylerR> Oh definitely. :)
  552. [23:02:07] <TylerR> So folks, I don't know if anyone here follows the yearly CSS Reboot, but it sort of donned on me today about the benefits of such an event aimed at implementing uf.
  553. [23:03:28] <TylerR> If you want to see how the CSS Reboot works, here's their event site: http://www.cssreboot.com/
  554. [23:05:31] * charlie_r (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  555. [23:06:20] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13106 * AndyMabbett * (+89) move last to problem section: no examples on cited page
  556. [23:06:57] <TylerR> I don't know if anyone would be interested in organizing something with me, but I think something like that could drum up a good amount of interest outside the immediate community.
  557. [23:07:24] <bewest> tantek: yes, scott and I tried to shuffle more people into IRC and the wiki
  558. [23:08:26] <tantek> thanks bewest - when I have a moment, I'll chime in on the list with suggested ways of working that use the wiki more in general than the list...
  559. [23:08:46] <mfbot> [[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=13107 * AndyMabbett * (+437) Examples in the wild - create "problem" section; move last there (no examples on cited page)
  560. [23:08:55] <bewest> and if a new list is created, that would probably help. I'm also curious what the other admins think of making a stronger disctinction between collecting techniques and creating formats
  561. [23:11:46] * Kilianvalkhof (n=Kay@a80-100-213-232.adsl.xs4all.nl) Quit ("Leaving")
  562. [23:18:55] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) has joined #microformats
  563. [23:18:55] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
  564. [23:21:06] <sreynen> i don't know how to say "you didn't really need to share that with the entire email list" without being a jerk
  565. [23:22:42] <sreynen> but that's what i think after reading many of these emails
  566. [23:22:46] <sreynen> maybe i'm just a jerk
  567. [23:24:47] <TylerR> Nah, if you're anything like me, you like to run a tight, clean ship. :)
  568. [23:27:56] * davecardwell (n=davecard@cpc4-grim9-0-0-cust251.nott.cable.ntl.com) has joined #microformats
  569. [23:27:56] <jibot> davecardwell is Dave Cardwell of http://davecardwell.co.uk/. He designs webs and generally geeks about in York, England.
  570. [23:36:10] <TylerR> Any thoughts on if that would be something you all would like to see? :)
  571. [23:46:13] <DerrickPallas> especially people that top post and leave the entire thread in the response
  572. [23:46:18] <DerrickPallas> That bugs the crap out of me.
  573. [23:47:55] <bewest> <.<
  574. [23:47:57] <bewest> >.>
  575. [23:50:59] <DerrickPallas> I'm looking for a good xslt processor written in C/C++. Any suggestions?
  576. [23:59:27] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  577. [23:59:27] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  578. [23:59:27] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king

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