IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-02-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:16:43] * jibot (n=jibot@64.159.77.114) has joined #microformats
  2. [00:16:53] * jibot (n=jibot@64.159.77.114) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  3. [00:17:07] * b3x (n=wojciech@gbj170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) has left #microformats
  4. [00:17:14] * jibot (n=jibot@64.159.77.114) has joined #microformats
  5. [00:17:29] * jibot (n=jibot@64.159.77.114) Quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
  6. [00:18:09] * jibot (n=jibot@64.159.77.114) has joined #microformats
  7. [00:18:27] * TylerR (n=tylerr@outbound.wa1.ascentium.com) has joined #microformats
  8. [00:18:30] <jibot> TylerR is Tyler Roehmholdt and is brewing up something social.
  9. [00:19:11] * TylerR (n=tylerr@outbound.wa1.ascentium.com) Quit (Client Quit)
  10. [00:24:23] * shigeta (n=shigeta@124.32.114.226) has joined #microformats
  11. [00:29:33] * DerrickPallas (n=chatzill@209.237.236.227) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.1/2006120418]")
  12. [00:35:15] * coolblade2 is now known as coolblade
  13. [00:46:48] * amanuel (n=amanuel@bas3-toronto12-1088946154.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #microformats
  14. [00:46:48] <jibot> amanuel is Amanuel, the social ambassador at http://otavo.com
  15. [00:52:55] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  16. [00:56:48] <tantek> DerrickPallas are you suggesting implied optimizations for "adr"?
  17. [00:57:00] <tantek> ah drat he left
  18. [01:03:58] * veeliam (n=veeliam@207.111.252.10) has joined #microformats
  19. [01:03:59] <jibot> veeliam is William Lawrence <http://zaxbypass.com>
  20. [01:25:56] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  21. [01:29:41] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("http://gmachina.com - gaming feeds in bulk")
  22. [01:47:00] * veeliam (n=veeliam@207.111.252.10) has left #microformats
  23. [02:00:19] * redmonk (n=steve@ip68-96-52-225.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit ("goodbye! *bamph*")
  24. [02:05:51] * mylesbraithwaite (n=mylesbra@bas10-toronto12-1177644767.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #microformats
  25. [02:37:21] * defunkt (n=cowboy@cn-sfo1-pix-natout.cnet.com) Quit ()
  26. [02:49:57] * mmc_ (n=mike@client65-104.sdsc.edu) Quit ()
  27. [02:55:25] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  28. [03:10:34] * shigeta_ (n=shigeta@124.32.114.226) has joined #microformats
  29. [03:16:22] * sreynen (n=sreynen@12-217-44-131.client.mchsi.com) has joined #microformats
  30. [03:16:22] * ChanServ sets mode +o sreynen
  31. [03:16:22] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
  32. [03:17:04] * sreynen (n=sreynen@12-217-44-131.client.mchsi.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  33. [03:17:47] * sreynen (n=sreynen@12-217-44-131.client.mchsi.com) has joined #microformats
  34. [03:17:47] * ChanServ sets mode +o sreynen
  35. [03:19:06] * shigeta (n=shigeta@124.32.114.226) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  36. [03:21:45] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit ("Leaving")
  37. [03:23:39] * MarkB (n=mbaker@209.161.202.187) has joined #microformats
  38. [03:47:28] * ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) Quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  39. [03:47:50] * ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) has joined #microformats
  40. [03:48:08] * amanuel (n=amanuel@bas3-toronto12-1088946154.dsl.bell.ca) Quit ()
  41. [03:53:44] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  42. [03:53:44] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  43. [03:53:45] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  44. [03:55:12] * Septembris (n=septembr@unaffiliated/septembris) has joined #microformats
  45. [03:58:03] * shigeta_ is now known as shigeta
  46. [04:04:04] * bear_afk is now known as bear
  47. [04:12:52] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13140 * DerrickPallas * (+125) New Examples -
  48. [04:39:13] * mylesbraithwaite (n=mylesbra@bas10-toronto12-1177644767.dsl.bell.ca) Quit ("Leaving")
  49. [05:05:33] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  50. [05:05:33] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  51. [05:16:16] * nfolson (n=nfolson@CPE-76-177-177-204.natsoe.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  52. [05:39:53] * b3x (n=wojciech@gbj170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #microformats
  53. [05:46:01] * nfolson (n=nfolson@CPE-76-177-177-204.natsoe.res.rr.com) Quit ()
  54. [06:21:21] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) has joined #microformats
  55. [06:26:53] <Septembris> Hello.
  56. [06:27:34] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  57. [06:29:44] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
  58. [07:06:44] * Septembris (n=septembr@unaffiliated/septembris) has left #microformats
  59. [07:22:16] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) Quit ()
  60. [07:31:30] * charles_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  61. [08:00:11] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13141 * AndyMabbett * (+68) move last to problem section (* [http://www.alexa.com Alexa Internet] marked up its [http://www.alexa.com/site/company/managers managers' page] with hCard.)
  62. [08:02:53] * b3x (n=wojciech@gbj170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) has left #microformats
  63. [08:22:48] * lisppaste4 (n=lisppast@common-lisp.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  64. [08:26:42] * lisppaste4 (n=lisppast@common-lisp.net) has joined #microformats
  65. [09:04:46] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  66. [09:04:46] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
  67. [09:39:09] * Ronnos (n=chatzill@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #microformats
  68. [09:39:10] <jibot> Ronnos is Ron Kok, a friendly student Communication and Multimedia Design in The Netherlands
  69. [09:55:38] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) has joined #microformats
  70. [10:04:42] <mfbot> [[faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=13142 * Phae * (+19) Q: ''Who controls microformats?'' -
  71. [10:07:50] * Kilianvalkhof (i=Kay@a80-100-213-232.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined #microformats
  72. [10:07:50] <jibot> Kilianvalkhof is Kilian Valkhof, he makes websites and blogs at http://kilianvalkhof.com
  73. [10:08:09] <Kilianvalkhof> mornin'
  74. [10:14:07] * bengee (n=bengee@82.207.128.166) has joined #microformats
  75. [10:14:08] <jibot> bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
  76. [10:16:17] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) has joined #microformats
  77. [10:16:17] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  78. [10:39:14] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
  79. [11:00:52] * Kilianvalkhof (i=Kay@a80-100-213-232.adsl.xs4all.nl) Quit ("Leaving")
  80. [11:05:08] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  81. [11:07:11] * charlie_r (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  82. [11:09:29] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) has joined #microformats
  83. [11:46:18] * pecus (n=pecus@194.65.5.235) has joined #microformats
  84. [12:08:06] * danja (n=danja@host10-217-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
  85. [12:08:06] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
  86. [12:10:20] <danja> did anyone do an XMDP profile for hCalendar yet?
  87. [12:10:57] <tantek> there's been some work on it. see hcalendar-profile.
  88. [12:11:55] <danja> yep, got that - but no actual profile as such
  89. [12:12:48] <tantek> right, work towards one, but no finished xmdp yet.
  90. [12:13:35] <danja> if I get chance this afternoon I'll sketch one out based on what's at hcalendar-profile
  91. [12:14:28] <danja> any fresh thoughts on profile URIs? like, should I approach DanC about putting this in w3c space?
  92. [12:16:27] <mfbot> [[irc-people]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=13143 * Amir * (+38)
  93. [12:17:29] <mfbot> [[irc-people]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=13144 * Amir * (+8)
  94. [12:22:45] <mfbot> [[User:Amir Guindehi]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/User:Amir_Guindehi * Amir * (+252)
  95. [12:38:26] <mfbot> [[User:Amir Guindehi]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:Amir_Guindehi&diff=0&oldid=13145 * Amir * (+544)
  96. [12:47:38] <danja> ok, done that, mailing lists...
  97. [12:58:15] * Henrich (n=Miranda@svs22.informatik.uni-hamburg.de) has joined #microformats
  98. [13:07:33] <mfbot> [[User:Amir]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:Amir * Amir * (+40)
  99. [13:10:14] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  100. [13:10:14] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  101. [13:12:11] * ajturner (n=irc@d14-69-228-190.try.wideopenwest.com) has joined #microformats
  102. [13:12:11] <jibot> ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com
  103. [13:15:07] * b3x (n=wojciech@gbj170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #microformats
  104. [13:20:50] * briansuda (n=briansud@bokd085.rhi.hi.is) has joined #microformats
  105. [13:20:50] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  106. [13:20:50] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
  107. [13:21:15] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-profile]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-profile&diff=0&oldid=13146 * DannyAyers * (+80) first pass at XMDP Profile linked
  108. [13:24:20] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) has joined #microformats
  109. [13:24:20] <jibot> Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
  110. [13:25:16] <mfbot> [[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13147 * CharlesRoper * (+653) Response to Pengo and Andy Mabbett -
  111. [13:26:07] * shigeta (n=shigeta@124.32.114.226) Quit ("Leaving...")
  112. [13:26:39] <danja> tantek, I've done a rough hCalendar profile (see mail to list) : http://dannyayers.com/microformats/hcalendar-profile
  113. [13:27:27] <briansuda> danja, you should merge that with http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-profile what is there needs to become XMDP
  114. [13:28:03] <danja> with that as the profile URI?
  115. [13:29:07] <danja> ew, there's also the matter of putting the referenced profile URIs in the <head>
  116. [13:29:42] <danja> anyhow gotta take dogs out, laters
  117. [13:37:13] <bengee> does anyone have an hcard example using the "agent" prop?
  118. [13:37:34] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) has joined #microformats
  119. [13:37:35] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
  120. [13:37:39] <bengee> is it supposed to be another hcard?
  121. [13:37:53] <tantek> see hcard-examples
  122. [13:38:03] <mfbot> [[x2v-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=x2v-issues&diff=0&oldid=13148 * Brian * (+264) Added issues about XSLT local-name()
  123. [13:38:17] <bengee> ugh, me blind?
  124. [13:38:40] <bengee> ah, cool, thx
  125. [13:38:52] <bengee> looked in the test cases only..
  126. [13:40:13] <bengee> agent and hcard don't have to be on the same node, do they?
  127. [13:44:07] <bengee> s/hcard/the nested vcard/
  128. [13:45:44] * amanuel (n=amanuel@integrity.niagara.com) has joined #microformats
  129. [13:45:44] <jibot> amanuel is Amanuel, the social ambassador at http://otavo.com
  130. [13:46:30] <briansuda> from: http://twitter.com/ChristopheDucamp/statuses/5084603 @Brian and chris : Seb 2.0 could be interested to help on a future french blog which could be based on fr.microformats.org - could you arrange that ?
  131. [13:46:57] <briansuda> is there a way or will to create language specific microformats blogs?
  132. [13:47:39] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) Quit ()
  133. [13:55:02] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  134. [14:00:39] <mfbot> [[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13149 * AndyMabbett * (+155) Response to Pengo by Andy Mabbett - furthrr response
  135. [14:04:16] <mfbot> [[species]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species&diff=0&oldid=13150 * AndyMabbett * (+76) References - Synonyms
  136. [14:09:12] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=13151 * AndyMabbett * (+596) Synonym
  137. [14:09:28] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=13152 * AndyMabbett * (+1) Synonym= - =
  138. [14:12:09] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=13153 * AndyMabbett * (+259) Synonym - anther examples
  139. [14:13:13] * DavidMead (n=DaveMead@adcomcommunications-gw0.cust.expedient.net) has joined #microformats
  140. [14:13:17] * DavidMead (n=DaveMead@adcomcommunications-gw0.cust.expedient.net) has left #microformats
  141. [14:18:20] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=13154 * AndyMabbett * (+427) Synonyms - more examples
  142. [14:30:59] <briansuda> hm, Bryn Mawr is using hCalendar for their Performing arts calendar: http://webtest.brynmawr.edu/calendar/performing_arts.shtml
  143. [14:31:47] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=13155 * AndyMabbett * (+174) Synonyms - another
  144. [14:32:38] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=13156 * AndyMabbett * (+4) Synonyms - fmt
  145. [14:33:03] * sreynen (n=sreynen@12-217-44-131.client.mchsi.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  146. [14:33:12] * redmonk (n=steve@ip68-96-52-225.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #microformats
  147. [14:33:12] <jibot> redmonk is Steve Ivy, http://redmonk.net and is linklogging at http://deliciouslymeta.com
  148. [14:33:42] * sreynen (n=sreynen@12-217-44-131.client.mchsi.com) has joined #microformats
  149. [14:33:42] * ChanServ sets mode +o sreynen
  150. [14:40:11] * danja (n=danja@host10-217-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit ()
  151. [14:42:24] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13157 * LeaDeGroot * (-6) Examples -
  152. [14:55:59] <Ronnos> tantek, would you place geo information in the address element?
  153. [14:58:29] <Ronnos> or put it outside the address element?
  154. [14:58:41] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
  155. [15:00:22] <briansuda> do you have a link Ronnos?
  156. [15:00:50] <Ronnos> well, i'm trying to "upgrade" my current hcard on www.creative-ways.nl
  157. [15:00:56] <Ronnos> in the green part :)
  158. [15:01:19] <Ronnos> because it's on every page, the address element seems usefull to me
  159. [15:02:30] * whafro (n=whafro@dsl092-150-081.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  160. [15:02:30] <jibot> whafro is M. Jackson Wilkinson, a designer/developer for Grassroots Enterprise in Washington, DC
  161. [15:03:01] <Ronnos> and i'm wondering if i should put the geo information in or outside the address element
  162. [15:04:53] <briansuda> it doesn't really matter
  163. [15:04:59] <briansuda> you can put it inside or out
  164. [15:05:13] <briansuda> GEO is not part of ADR, so it can go anywhere
  165. [15:05:32] <briansuda> but sometimes you are taking the ADR as the human-readable version of a lat/lon
  166. [15:05:58] <Ronnos> true, thanx brian
  167. [15:11:22] <ajturner> briansuda - you can put a geo *inside* iof an adr?
  168. [15:11:44] <briansuda> you can put it inside in the HTML, but ADR just ignored the elements
  169. [15:11:48] <ajturner> I know you can pair them up by putting them both in an hcard
  170. [15:12:26] <briansuda> you can add an ORG/FN inside and ADR too, but ADR doesn't do anything with them
  171. [15:12:53] <ajturner> well, there was discussion awhile ago on how to associate information w/ a geo or adr w/o using an hcard or event
  172. [15:13:07] <ajturner> like saying "there is a great picnic spot at <span class="geo" ..."
  173. [15:13:24] <briansuda> it isn't ascociating anything, just where you can put markup
  174. [15:13:25] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) has joined #microformats
  175. [15:13:25] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
  176. [15:13:42] <ajturner> briansuda - right, well, it would be nice to be able to associate
  177. [15:13:58] <ajturner> so when you have a geo/adr-reader or aggregator, *what* is the actual location that is pulled out?
  178. [15:14:23] <briansuda> agreed, at the moment X2V and Operator are doing some things, but they are not part of the spec, just implementation-by-implementation
  179. [15:14:45] <ajturner> what are they using? I haven't seen
  180. [15:15:09] <ajturner> I want to do something for Mapufacture
  181. [15:15:20] <briansuda> same as X2V, it is looking-up the tree to see if it is in a vCard or iCalendar, then using FN or SUMMARY otherwise just the lat;lon
  182. [15:15:41] <briansuda> it isn't perfect, but solves 80/20 nicely
  183. [15:16:06] <briansuda> as for a geo/adr spider. I would say that a GEO spider saves the lat/lon and if it is in an ABBR then save the node value.
  184. [15:16:15] <briansuda> as for ADR just save the fields it finds
  185. [15:16:41] <briansuda> anything more, then it is not an ADR spider, but an hCard/hCal spider
  186. [15:17:05] <ajturner> what do you think about just grabbing the content of the parent? so if it's <p> STUFF <geo> more stuff </p>
  187. [15:17:13] <ajturner> the text would be the content of the p
  188. [15:17:57] <ajturner> well, I'm less interested it in being a geo/adr spider/scraper/aggregator specifically and more interested in it getting 'useful information about a location' :)
  189. [15:19:12] <briansuda> i would agree with you, but then we are making requirements outside of the spec
  190. [15:19:36] <briansuda> i'd be happy to leave it up to the market to try things out and see what works
  191. [15:19:45] <ajturner> well, for one, the spec doesn't want to change, so doesn't seem like it will ;) and second was looking for "works in the real world" solution for an application
  192. [15:20:00] <briansuda> there is nothing stopping a spider for getting the basic data and then suplementing it who they like
  193. [15:20:18] <briansuda> there might be some false-positives, but that is out-of-scopre of GEO/ADR
  194. [15:20:36] <ajturner> right, I was just looking to see if I missed a change, or if there was a suggested solution that others have been using in cases where the actual data doesn't give context
  195. [15:20:49] <briansuda> no, there hasn't been anything official
  196. [15:21:17] <briansuda> did you see that Google Books are doing something very similar to gutenkart?
  197. [15:21:23] <ajturner> hrm, is there a simple blog/news feed for MF *changes*?
  198. [15:21:27] <briansuda> mapping placenames in the book to a google map
  199. [15:21:30] <ajturner> yeah, i did (blogged it)
  200. [15:21:42] <briansuda> maybe that's where i found the link :)
  201. [15:21:46] <ajturner> they have *quite* the step-up as they have access to thousands (millions?) of copyright material
  202. [15:21:52] <ajturner> that something like Gutenkarte doesn't
  203. [15:22:23] <ajturner> heh, I've done that, retold info to someone when I found it out from them ;)
  204. [15:22:31] <ajturner> obviously they were interested
  205. [15:22:41] <briansuda> in an RSS reader i can't really see the original source!
  206. [15:23:00] <ajturner> ? really? can't see URL/title/author?
  207. [15:24:29] <briansuda> i probably can, but i have a 'web' folder of loads of different feeds ordered by date.
  208. [15:24:35] <briansuda> so i never pay attention
  209. [15:24:46] <ajturner> well, lack of attn I understand, that's my problem ;)
  210. [15:25:02] <ajturner> btw - you coming to Web2.0 expo or OSCON?
  211. [15:26:55] <briansuda> no, my next few conferences are: BarCampLondon2, Highland Fling, XTECH07
  212. [15:27:02] <briansuda> that's all i know at the moment
  213. [15:27:09] <briansuda> are you heading down to SXSW?
  214. [15:28:10] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
  215. [15:32:31] <Ronnos> brian, what's the status on rel="me self"?
  216. [15:33:53] <ajturner> briansuda - don't know yet, probably not at this point
  217. [15:33:57] <ajturner> would love to
  218. [15:34:26] <briansuda> i'm not sure what the status on rel="me self" is? both are valid HTML rel values
  219. [15:34:36] <briansuda> but that is still up to interpretation to what it actually means
  220. [15:34:40] * b3x (n=wojciech@gbj170.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) has left #microformats
  221. [15:38:09] * Charl (n=Charl@196.21.192.15) has joined #microformats
  222. [15:38:10] <jibot> Charl is Charl van Niekerk and writes about standards at http://standards.za.net/
  223. [15:38:21] * danja (n=danja@80.104.217.10) has joined #microformats
  224. [15:38:21] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
  225. [15:38:43] <Ronnos> hm, the location -> Yahoo! maps function in Operator displays the USA as default?
  226. [15:38:43] <redmonk> briansuda: i was thinking about that rel="me self"... can rel hold two values?
  227. [15:39:09] <briansuda> sure, both rel and class can take space sperated values
  228. [15:39:16] <redmonk> ok, i was not sure
  229. [15:39:35] * termie (i=andy@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/termie) has joined #microformats
  230. [15:45:36] <Ronnos> hm, strange... Yahoo!maps handles latitude and longitude in the format xx.xxx, but it doesn't handle them in the format xx.xxxxxx
  231. [15:45:37] <Ronnos> :S
  232. [15:48:03] <briansuda> you should document those issues on the wiki
  233. [15:48:23] <briansuda> i think is a page started already for stuff like that
  234. [15:52:38] <Ronnos> Operator related problems?
  235. [15:57:43] * SamRose (n=chatzill@brick.voyager.net) has joined #microformats
  236. [15:57:44] <jibot> SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
  237. [16:07:48] <mfbot> [[irc-people]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=13158 * AmanuelTewolde * (+48)
  238. [16:10:39] <mfbot> [[User:AmanuelTewolde]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:AmanuelTewolde * AmanuelTewolde * (+156)
  239. [16:12:07] * Henrich (n=Miranda@svs22.informatik.uni-hamburg.de) Quit ("Bye for now ...")
  240. [16:14:46] * mkaply (n=mkaply@69.91.85.26) has joined #microformats
  241. [16:14:46] <jibot> mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
  242. [16:20:06] * aconbere|mobile (n=aconbere@c-67-171-24-45.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  243. [16:20:44] <Ronnos> mkaply, i added some kind of bug on your blog
  244. [16:21:26] <mkaply> Ronnos
  245. [16:22:03] <mkaply> Ronnos: wow. yahoo doesn't handle 6 digits? that's funny
  246. [16:22:22] <Ronnos> you can try, it possible i messed things up :S
  247. [16:22:50] <Ronnos> maybe yahoo handles them, but not in the right way :)
  248. [16:23:39] <mkaply> I can certainly truncate for yahoo if necessary. no biggie
  249. [16:23:52] <Ronnos> mkaply, i'm shocked
  250. [16:24:02] <Ronnos> it seems that it works again :S
  251. [16:24:04] <Ronnos> i dunno why :S
  252. [16:24:56] <mkaply> Ronnos: yep. fails the first time. I think it is a bug with their broadband map detection
  253. [16:25:30] <Ronnos> thank god, i was going crazy here about the fact that it worked here :P
  254. [16:26:25] <Ronnos> ah, i see
  255. [16:28:22] <Ronnos> false alarm than
  256. [16:41:17] <mkaply> I've seen that before. Yahoo does some sort of autodetect with their new flash version
  257. [16:44:50] * danja (n=danja@80.104.217.10) Quit ()
  258. [16:48:32] <mfbot> [[microformats-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=microformats-issues&diff=0&oldid=13159 * DrErnie * (+191) Governance Issues -
  259. [16:49:43] <mfbot> [[User:Amir Guindehi]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:Amir_Guindehi&diff=0&oldid=13160 * Amir * (-192) Amir Guindehi -
  260. [16:49:59] <mfbot> [[User:Amir Guindehi]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:Amir_Guindehi&diff=0&oldid=13161 * Amir * (-11) Amir Guindehi -
  261. [16:51:43] * mkaply (n=mkaply@69.91.85.26) Quit ("Leaving")
  262. [16:54:20] * nfolson (n=nfolson@CPE-76-177-177-204.natsoe.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  263. [16:54:21] <bengee> hmm, the label prop in vcard seems to be fine as a sup-prop of adr instead of the card..
  264. [16:58:32] <bengee> or can "label" use the type-value-pattern as well?
  265. [16:59:08] <bengee> (as the rfc mentions type values similar to adr->type)
  266. [16:59:21] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  267. [16:59:21] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  268. [16:59:53] <bengee> s/sup/sub/
  269. [17:02:53] <bengee> 'ADR: to specify the components of the delivery address', 'LABEL: to specify the formatted text corresponding to delivery address'
  270. [17:05:23] * danja (n=danja@80.104.218.76) has joined #microformats
  271. [17:05:24] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
  272. [17:06:50] <bengee> i.e. given that an hcard can have multiple adrs, the label should be a sub-prop of adr
  273. [17:07:23] <tantek> bengee - it is not a subprop of adr in vCard, therefore it is not a subprop of adr in hCard
  274. [17:09:04] <bengee> does vcard hanlde multiple adrs and labels separately?
  275. [17:09:15] <bengee> *handle*
  276. [17:12:31] <bengee> it's a subprop in the schema at w3.org/2006/vcard/ns which is what I'm trying to map data against, hmm..
  277. [17:13:44] * DavidMead (n=DaveMead@adcomcommunications-gw0.cust.expedient.net) has joined #microformats
  278. [17:13:55] * charles_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
  279. [17:14:57] * DavidMead (n=DaveMead@adcomcommunications-gw0.cust.expedient.net) has left #microformats
  280. [17:16:30] * charlie_r (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  281. [17:17:07] * charles_r (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  282. [17:17:19] <briansuda> bengee, i think you are confusing the ADR property and the LABEL property, do you mean ADR type?
  283. [17:18:20] * aconbere|mobile (n=aconbere@c-67-171-24-45.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  284. [17:18:50] <bengee> no, I think what made me stumble as the optional "type" a LABEL may have which is no reflected in hcard
  285. [17:18:59] <bengee> s/as/was/
  286. [17:19:17] <bengee> *not* reflected, sorry
  287. [17:20:01] <bengee> so I thought it might've fitted fine in the adr container
  288. [17:20:32] <briansuda> well, LABEL has not been implement in hCard because no one really uses it. So we didn't spend the energy to work on it
  289. [17:20:39] <bengee> but yeah, the vcard rfc keeps them separate
  290. [17:20:53] <bengee> yeah, makes sense
  291. [17:21:45] <bengee> I'm writing a parser, so the question isn't backed by any practical use either
  292. [17:22:48] <bengee> but you might consider tweaking the owl/rdfs thingy where the domain of label is address..
  293. [17:23:43] * bengee skips label for now
  294. [17:25:07] * charles_r (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit ("Bye!")
  295. [17:25:21] * charles_r (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  296. [17:25:33] <briansuda> you should send an email to the sem-web mailing list about the w3.org/2006/vcard/ns if it is documented then it has a better chance of being fixed
  297. [17:26:01] <bengee> yeah, ill do
  298. [17:26:46] * bengee needs a new keyboard this one doesn't ork ;)
  299. [17:27:11] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  300. [17:31:10] * charles_r is now known as charles_r[away]
  301. [17:36:41] * charles_r[away] is now known as charles_r
  302. [17:37:58] * pecus (n=pecus@194.65.5.235) Quit ()
  303. [17:38:16] * TylerR (n=tylerr@outbound.wa1.ascentium.com) has joined #microformats
  304. [17:38:16] <jibot> TylerR is Tyler Roehmholdt and is brewing up something social.
  305. [17:39:47] <TylerR> Morning.
  306. [17:39:55] * bear_afk is now known as bear
  307. [17:40:53] * briansuda (n=briansud@bokd085.rhi.hi.is) Quit ("heads off to find food")
  308. [17:43:29] * DerrickPallas (n=chatzill@209.237.236.227) has joined #microformats
  309. [17:51:56] * ntoll (n=ntoll@81-178-101-214.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #microformats
  310. [17:51:57] <jibot> ntoll is Nicholas Tollervey and can be found online at http://ntoll.org
  311. [17:59:15] * BenjaminCarlyle (n=fuzzy@c210-49-93-69.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #microformats
  312. [17:59:15] <jibot> BenjaminCarlyle is http://soundadvice.id.au/blog/, GMT 1000
  313. [17:59:49] <DerrickPallas> Good morning all.
  314. [18:01:07] <TylerR> Hi DerrickPallas. How's the morning?
  315. [18:11:42] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit ()
  316. [18:12:22] * Charl (n=Charl@196.21.192.15) Quit ()
  317. [18:12:38] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  318. [18:13:02] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) has joined #microformats
  319. [18:18:37] * mylesbraithwaite (n=mylesbra@206-248-153-124.dsl.teksavvy.com) has joined #microformats
  320. [18:32:37] <DerrickPallas> Anyone good at Xpath?
  321. [18:34:43] * ntoll (n=ntoll@81-178-101-214.dsl.pipex.com) Quit ("Leaving")
  322. [18:38:19] * TylerR (n=tylerr@outbound.wa1.ascentium.com) Quit ("Leaving")
  323. [18:41:34] <mfbot> [[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13162 * CharlesRoper * (+648) Response to Andy Mabbett regarding UIDs -
  324. [19:06:51] * charles_r (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Connection reset by peer)
  325. [19:08:38] * danja (n=danja@80.104.218.76) Quit ()
  326. [19:09:21] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  327. [19:09:21] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  328. [19:09:22] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  329. [19:09:37] * danja (n=danja@host76-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
  330. [19:09:58] * charles_r (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  331. [19:16:49] * defunkt (n=cowboy@cn-sfo1-pix-natout.cnet.com) has joined #microformats
  332. [19:19:25] * charles_r (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  333. [19:21:13] * trovster (n=trovster@host86-139-2-119.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  334. [19:21:14] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
  335. [19:22:20] * defunkt (n=cowboy@cn-sfo1-pix-natout.cnet.com) has left #microformats
  336. [19:23:13] * JMulder (n=me@ip4da10ac9.direct-adsl.nl) Quit ()
  337. [19:24:28] * cdrieschner (n=cdriesch@p57A08567.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #microformats
  338. [19:27:18] <bewest> sreynen: nice reply to joe
  339. [19:27:27] <bewest> I replied, but realized afterwards it was actually a different thread
  340. [19:31:29] <sreynen> i'm trying to minimize my participation in this thread, as i think my first reply was a mistake, but i gave myself a pass on answering questions directed at me specifically
  341. [19:34:14] * Kilianvalkhof (n=Kay@a80-100-213-232.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined #microformats
  342. [19:34:15] <jibot> Kilianvalkhof is Kilian Valkhof, he makes websites and blogs at http://kilianvalkhof.com
  343. [19:35:47] <tantek> bewest, sreynen, I thought both your replies were thoughtful and well considered.
  344. [19:37:36] <sreynen> thanks tantek. bewest's reply hasn't come through for me yet, so i'll look forward to reading it
  345. [19:43:48] <redmonk> is XFN *only* expressed in rel values on links? meaning, there's no container element, is there?
  346. [19:44:20] * mbradley (n=chatzill@dasasob.nokia.com) has joined #microformats
  347. [19:45:50] * redmonk is now known as redmonk_to_docto
  348. [19:51:01] <tantek> redmonk, yes, only rel values
  349. [19:51:12] <tantek> however, you can infer context from containers just as with rel-tag
  350. [19:51:44] <tantek> e.g. XFN links in blog posts indicate a timedate stamped assertion about a relationship
  351. [19:51:57] <tantek> see http://gmpg.org/xfn/faq for more
  352. [19:53:56] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  353. [19:54:21] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  354. [19:54:21] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  355. [19:58:11] * mylesbraithwaite (n=mylesbra@206-248-153-124.dsl.teksavvy.com) Quit ("Leaving")
  356. [19:59:33] * trovster (n=trovster@host86-139-2-119.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  357. [20:04:29] * Phae (n=phae@80-41-114-99.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has joined #microformats
  358. [20:04:29] <jibot> Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
  359. [20:04:31] * ChanServ sets mode +o Phae
  360. [20:08:22] * JMulder (n=me@ip4da10ac9.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #microformats
  361. [20:14:14] <amir> ?def amir is Amir Guindehi and blogs at http://amir.ch/weblog
  362. [20:14:17] <jibot> amir is Amir Guindehi and blogs at http://amir.ch/weblog
  363. [20:15:47] <amir> ?lern amir is Amir Guindehi and blogs at http://amir.ch/weblog
  364. [20:16:00] <amir> ?learn amir is Amir Guindehi and blogs at http://amir.ch/weblog
  365. [20:16:01] <jibot> amir is Amir Guindehi and blogs at http://amir.ch/weblog and Amir Guindehi and blogs at http://amir.ch/weblog
  366. [20:16:16] <amir> ?forget amir
  367. [20:16:17] <jibot> I need at least 3 words with an 'is' in the middle
  368. [20:16:30] <amir> ?forget amir is Amir
  369. [20:16:31] <jibot> I did not know amir was Amir
  370. [20:16:45] <amir> ?forget amir is AMir Guindehi and
  371. [20:16:46] <jibot> I did not know amir was AMir Guindehi and
  372. [20:16:49] <amir> grr
  373. [20:16:58] <amir> ?forget amir is Amir Guindehi and blogs
  374. [20:16:59] <jibot> I now only know that amir is blogs at http://amir.ch/weblog and Amir Guindehi and blogs at http://amir.ch/weblog
  375. [20:17:00] <jibot> I did not know amir was blogs
  376. [20:17:12] <amir> ?forgetme
  377. [20:17:13] <jibot> I have expunged amir from my mind
  378. [20:17:29] <amir> ?learn amir is Amir Guindehi and blogs at http://amir.ch/weblog
  379. [20:17:30] <jibot> amir is Amir Guindehi and blogs at http://amir.ch/weblog
  380. [20:17:48] * amir pats himself on the shoulder and scuttles off
  381. [20:17:55] <Phae> :)
  382. [20:18:12] <amir> sorry for the spam ;)
  383. [20:18:56] <Phae> s'ok when there's no discussion to be interrupting
  384. [20:20:12] * JamieKnight (n=chatzill@host86-140-70-111.range86-140.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  385. [20:20:48] <sreynen> amir, that was quite entertaining to read
  386. [20:21:19] * amir chuckles and is happy that he's able to entertain the round ;)
  387. [20:21:33] * amir bows towards all
  388. [20:22:48] <JamieKnight> hiya,
  389. [20:22:53] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  390. [20:23:10] <Phae> hi :)
  391. [20:23:26] <JamieKnight> how be you?
  392. [20:24:19] <Phae> not too bad thank you
  393. [20:24:41] <JamieKnight> goood,
  394. [20:24:52] <JamieKnight> I am sleepy, i need to get some sleep soon,
  395. [20:25:03] <Phae> Same. it seems like it's been a long week.
  396. [20:25:15] <JamieKnight> yeah, very long week!
  397. [20:25:27] <JamieKnight> seem weeks without work take longer than weeks with work,
  398. [20:26:46] <JamieKnight> what OS are you on?
  399. [20:27:09] <Phae> xp
  400. [20:27:17] <JamieKnight> kewl,
  401. [20:27:27] <JamieKnight> have you seen the "zune" theme?
  402. [20:27:39] <Phae> I've *seen* it, but that's all.
  403. [20:27:48] <JamieKnight> i have been using it for a few days,
  404. [20:27:58] <JamieKnight> with the OSX fish background it looks nice,
  405. [20:30:40] <JamieKnight> have you used any microformats on client site yet? if so how did they recievve it~?
  406. [20:31:32] <Phae> i have, but in a somewhat underhand way. i mentioned i'd added them, they didn't understand.
  407. [20:31:33] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  408. [20:31:44] <JamieKnight> kewl,
  409. [20:31:44] <Phae> it wasn't something i consulted with them on first
  410. [20:31:57] <JamieKnight> propbobly a good move,
  411. [20:32:10] <JamieKnight> i put one in ona work site recently and the client liked it,
  412. [20:32:10] <Phae> but yeah, that's fine. most clients don't want to know *how* a site works, they just want it to work and it to look nice, ultimately.
  413. [20:32:23] <JamieKnight> on a work site rather,
  414. [20:32:27] <JamieKnight> yeah,
  415. [20:32:58] <JamieKnight> i find the outlook import feature they like often,
  416. [20:33:04] <JamieKnight> they also tend to like slimbox,
  417. [20:33:05] <Phae> yeah.
  418. [20:33:23] <Phae> that helps. something that actually produces an effect that seems professional to them and vaguely useful.
  419. [20:33:31] <JamieKnight> yeah,
  420. [20:33:45] <Kilianvalkhof> "vaguely useful" xD
  421. [20:33:57] <Phae> well, you know what i mean :P
  422. [20:34:08] <Kilianvalkhof> all to well, actually :P
  423. [20:34:20] <Phae> i, personally, never extract hcards to my contacts. i tend to only have contacts made up of people who have emailed me, or me them.
  424. [20:34:29] * JamieKnight imagine telling a client how usefull XML RPC is and can image alun would be telling him that was wrong.
  425. [20:34:39] <JamieKnight> phe i do,
  426. [20:34:43] * Kilianvalkhof remembers clients wanting to link their e-mail adress mailto: link on the page to the contact form as well, because "it would give them more information" <_<
  427. [20:34:55] <JamieKnight> hehe,
  428. [20:35:04] <Phae> interesting
  429. [20:35:09] <JamieKnight> i use the hcards,
  430. [20:35:21] <JamieKnight> i use them with gmail using a converter i wrote, its useful somtimes,
  431. [20:35:35] <Kilianvalkhof> i've been pondering for a good hcard in my site, but i hate putting my e-mail adress out there
  432. [20:35:40] <JamieKnight> looking forward to wider use,
  433. [20:35:41] <Phae> well, that's good :)
  434. [20:35:50] <Phae> don't then, Kilianvalkhof. email isn't a required field
  435. [20:35:53] <JamieKnight> hcard does not *have* to have an e-mail adress,
  436. [20:35:54] <Phae> don't publish what you don't already
  437. [20:36:03] <JamieKnight> goof for vauge adresses,
  438. [20:36:07] <JamieKnight> good rather,
  439. [20:36:20] * cdrieschner (n=cdriesch@p57A08567.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has left #microformats
  440. [20:36:52] <Kilianvalkhof> @phae, that only leaves my name, company and cell number. a digital "business card" seems rather usefull without an e-mail adress
  441. [20:36:55] <JamieKnight> on my site i just use my e-mail with not completely but not bad spamproofing.
  442. [20:37:13] <JamieKnight> Kilianvalkhof: hCard are about making data accsessible,
  443. [20:37:17] <Phae> perhaps, but ultimately, the purpose of marking something up with a microformat is to add extra meaning and remove ambiguity
  444. [20:37:27] <JamieKnight> my phone accepts them, so your cell number would be useful,
  445. [20:37:28] <Phae> what people want to do with it later is up to them. someone might find that useful.
  446. [20:37:55] <Phae> it certainly won't *hurt* to mark those 3 items of information as hcard, eh?
  447. [20:37:56] <JamieKnight> also, if you mark up your adress, i could use gmap to map you,
  448. [20:38:00] <Kilianvalkhof> you've all got a point
  449. [20:38:20] <Phae> :)
  450. [20:38:29] <JamieKnight> i am still a little unsure about inline hcards, i like the idea, but.... there seems to be somthing.
  451. [20:38:36] <amir> JamieKnight: : a phone accepting hcards?
  452. [20:38:42] <JamieKnight> not sure what though
  453. [20:38:46] <JamieKnight> phone accepts vcards,
  454. [20:38:52] <Kilianvalkhof> however i still feel that a hcard without e-mail is useless for extracting
  455. [20:39:12] <JamieKnight> I have a little program that i use to put them on my phone, i wrote a plug in that take hcard page urls.
  456. [20:39:13] <Phae> let the person wishing to extract that decide?
  457. [20:39:21] <Kilianvalkhof> @ JamieKnight, which anti-spam method are you using, and how well is it going?
  458. [20:39:23] <amir> JamieKnight: : heh ;)
  459. [20:39:39] <Kilianvalkhof> @phae, true, true
  460. [20:39:50] <Phae> oo.. that's cool, JamieKnight. So you can grab phone numbers for your address book on it?
  461. [20:39:56] <JamieKnight> i use jammie[dot]knight[at]gmail[dot]com
  462. [20:40:04] <JamieKnight> yeah,
  463. [20:40:07] <JamieKnight> its not very stable though,
  464. [20:40:13] <Phae> thats a really nice idea though
  465. [20:40:14] <Phae> i like that
  466. [20:40:17] <JamieKnight> still needs lots of work,
  467. [20:40:19] <JamieKnight> thanks,
  468. [20:40:36] <Phae> have you mentioned this on the mailing list or anything before (I miss stuff sometimes)?
  469. [20:40:42] <JamieKnight> I was thinkong of writing an app which allows you to fill out oulook card with just the URL,
  470. [20:40:44] <Kilianvalkhof> i concidered the REMOVETHIS option, but itś not very durable
  471. [20:40:55] <JamieKnight> nope, its no hwere near rready,
  472. [20:41:02] * danja (n=danja@host76-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit ()
  473. [20:41:08] <JamieKnight> that reminds me, i need to order my slice,
  474. [20:41:26] <Phae> cool idea though. i like the idea of something that maybe, while visiting a website on your phone, could grab the phone number and name from a hcard
  475. [20:41:58] <JamieKnight> what i would ultimatly like is a contact system where it take the URL from the e-mail name and then get the rest of the details,
  476. [20:42:16] <JamieKnight> so, when i get an e-mail, if i respond it adds them as a contact, and fills in the other details,
  477. [20:42:54] <Phae> but how would you do that? @gmail.com isn't going to be much use.
  478. [20:43:06] <JamieKnight> well, i supose you would need a filter,
  479. [20:43:18] <JamieKnight> the worst that can happen is that there is no hcard,
  480. [20:43:22] <Phae> right
  481. [20:43:51] <JamieKnight> if it works in the background and tries then it would be quite simple.
  482. [20:44:07] <Phae> but you need to check you get the right hcard too. two people may have @yourdomain.com and both email you. you'd have to hope their hcard either matches the name before the @, or contains the email.
  483. [20:44:12] <JamieKnight> it looks, if its not there is doesent fill it in, if there is one there, it does.
  484. [20:44:45] <JamieKnight> true,
  485. [20:45:02] <Phae> it's plausable, i'm just not sure how reliable using @domain.com is alone.
  486. [20:45:12] * DavidMead (n=DaveMead@adcomcommunications-gw0.cust.expedient.net) has joined #microformats
  487. [20:45:17] * DavidMead (n=DaveMead@adcomcommunications-gw0.cust.expedient.net) has left #microformats
  488. [20:45:19] <JamieKnight> hmmm,
  489. [20:45:25] <JamieKnight> it was an idea,
  490. [20:45:31] <Phae> it still is :)
  491. [20:45:44] <JamieKnight> the idea was not for it to work all the time, but just when it could,
  492. [20:45:51] <Phae> yeah
  493. [20:46:07] <JamieKnight> for example, if i get an email from jon, it goes to hicksdesign.co.uk and grabs his hcard and fill in his phone number,
  494. [20:46:18] <Phae> yeah
  495. [20:46:20] <JamieKnight> its this little implimentation that will work the best,
  496. [20:46:47] <JamieKnight> ultimatly as more people have thier own domains, it will get more useful,
  497. [20:47:00] <amir> u can do that with my email: amir@guindehi.ch -> http://amir.guindehi.ch -> hcard ;)
  498. [20:47:12] <amir> but i bet most of the time this won't work ;)
  499. [20:47:12] <JamieKnight> kewl,
  500. [20:47:24] <Phae> well, yeah. i only just set up email for my domain (due to laziness) but my domain is also my OpenID
  501. [20:47:24] <JamieKnight> it would not be heard to cinfgure a server as such,
  502. [20:47:32] <Phae> So I guess it's quite specific, and reliably always me
  503. [20:47:38] <JamieKnight> i am not so sure about open ID,
  504. [20:48:05] <JamieKnight> you can place page at for example. http://name@domain.TLD
  505. [20:48:33] <JamieKnight> or, as you said a subdomain,
  506. [20:48:39] <JamieKnight> name.domain.tld
  507. [20:50:13] <Phae> hmm.
  508. [20:50:32] <Phae> I like your idea though. Intelligently attempting to fill in fields is useful, even if it won't always work.
  509. [20:50:45] <JamieKnight> thanks,
  510. [20:50:48] <Phae> It's a good reason to have a hcard on your domain page
  511. [20:50:57] <JamieKnight> i had a few other ideas, but they are a bit harder,
  512. [20:50:57] <Phae> er.. domain's index page.
  513. [20:51:00] <Phae> heh
  514. [20:51:03] <JamieKnight> hehe,
  515. [20:51:29] <JamieKnight> I was thinking of making a service similar to openID, but with a few differences,
  516. [20:52:07] <Phae> there's been discussions around the place about OpenID with hCards to do intelligent form completion, or automatical profiles etc.
  517. [20:52:28] <JamieKnight> well, i am sort of building a system for that,
  518. [20:52:39] <JamieKnight> i just need to get the system to support it sorted,
  519. [20:52:44] <Phae> :D
  520. [20:53:47] <JamieKnight> basically, you join the system and it give you a subdomain (like DA does) which you can chose to password protect or not, and then when you want to sign up for somthing it gets you details,
  521. [20:54:03] <Phae> m'k
  522. [20:54:28] <JamieKnight> so, when i join flick i type my domain (or any page with a hcard) and it fills in my name and location,
  523. [20:54:47] <JamieKnight> this service will just allow for people without the need for a blog to have hacrd, and calender ect,
  524. [20:55:14] <JamieKnight> trouble si the cost of such a service, makes it diffcult for a small company to run,
  525. [20:55:31] <Phae> okay, right, but the way *I personally* want something to work is I want to type in my OpenID, which is fberriman.com, I authenticate with my chosen OpenID provider, and then the service I'm logging into goes to fberriman.com (my ID) and grabs my hCard
  526. [20:56:00] <JamieKnight> well, my idea require a open id provideer,
  527. [20:56:20] <Phae> Those exist though. :)
  528. [20:56:24] <JamieKnight> your own domain is that, because this is not for authanticating,
  529. [20:56:57] <JamieKnight> what we need is some code which is easy to give to developer and make avlibe which allows you to doa hCard grab
  530. [20:57:05] <Phae> yeah
  531. [20:57:07] <JamieKnight> maybe a couple of PHP functions.
  532. [20:57:19] <Phae> that's the thing. getting the service you're logging in to to go and do that bit
  533. [20:57:30] <JamieKnight> yeah,
  534. [20:57:39] * Phae shrugs.
  535. [20:57:43] <JamieKnight> so when i go to flick it look at my page though ajax,
  536. [20:57:43] <Phae> I dunno!
  537. [20:57:55] <JamieKnight> It would not be hard to creat thease functions,
  538. [20:58:00] <JamieKnight> create rather,
  539. [20:58:02] <Phae> Why hasn't someone then?
  540. [20:58:07] <JamieKnight> pass,
  541. [20:58:09] <Phae> And that's not me being obtuse. I'm curious.
  542. [20:58:14] * JamieKnight adds it to his to do list
  543. [20:58:35] <JamieKnight> what you need is somthing people who are constructing forms can copy + past in.
  544. [20:58:52] <JamieKnight> wont cause problems with thier backend and wont make form making harder,
  545. [20:58:57] <Phae> yea
  546. [20:59:09] <JamieKnight> so, for example a function would do,
  547. [20:59:23] <JamieKnight> fron end function in JS
  548. [20:59:56] <JamieKnight> when the onfocus for the URL domain is lost, it look at the domain, and contact the site. if it has a hcard it fill in the other details.
  549. [21:00:05] <JamieKnight> maybe a button that does it.
  550. [21:00:17] <JamieKnight> well, i know what i am doing tommrow know :D
  551. [21:00:37] <Phae> :D drew mclellan did a demo that did something like that
  552. [21:00:42] <Phae> but without the open ID step.
  553. [21:00:54] <JamieKnight> what open id step?
  554. [21:01:02] <Phae> he had the option of a drop down too, to allow you to select from multiple hcards that might exist in the page
  555. [21:01:09] <JamieKnight> i like it,
  556. [21:01:12] <Phae> well.. yeah. it's not relevant, I guess. you just want that get function.
  557. [21:01:40] <JamieKnight> make it a comin element like the submit button, and then hcard are even more useful,
  558. [21:01:50] <JamieKnight> do you have a URL/
  559. [21:02:11] <Phae> I honestly don't know if he put it online anywhere. His URL is http://allinthehead.com
  560. [21:02:29] <JamieKnight> i will ask him next time i see him,
  561. [21:02:31] <Phae> It was his BarCamp presentation. He may have it somewhere.
  562. [21:03:07] <JamieKnight> correction, i will ask alun to ask him next time he see's him,
  563. [21:03:36] <Phae> I see him from time to time, so if I see him first I'll poke him.
  564. [21:03:48] <JamieKnight> kewl, thanks
  565. [21:04:31] <JamieKnight> if it was somthing quick for devlopers, and smooth then it would work well,
  566. [21:04:39] <JamieKnight> maybe have it in the YUI
  567. [21:04:47] <Phae> :)
  568. [21:04:56] <JamieKnight> i would use it,
  569. [21:05:34] <JamieKnight> i need to get my slice up and running soon,
  570. [21:05:44] <Phae> brb
  571. [21:07:03] <JamieKnight> #slicehost
  572. [21:07:44] <JamieKnight> i should actully get going secound thinking,
  573. [21:07:56] * JamieKnight (n=chatzill@host86-140-70-111.range86-140.btcentralplus.com) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.1/2006120418]")
  574. [21:09:29] <Ronnos> JamieKnight and Phae, i believe that the Nokia software does handle vCards
  575. [21:12:18] <Ronnos> well... at least it try's and chokes in it :P
  576. [21:13:36] <mfbot> [[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13163 * AndyMabbett * (+308) Response to Pengo by Andy Mabbett -
  577. [21:14:57] <mfbot> [[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13164 * AndyMabbett * (+45) Response to Pengo by Andy Mabbett - response & syn. examples
  578. [21:18:26] * Henrich (n=Miranda@e176064127.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #microformats
  579. [21:25:31] * Ronnos (n=chatzill@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has left #microformats
  580. [21:28:41] * SamRose (n=chatzill@brick.voyager.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  581. [21:37:23] * redmonk_to_docto is now known as redmonk
  582. [21:38:21] * redmonk returns from the doctors
  583. [21:38:29] <redmonk> thx tantek re: xfn clarification
  584. [21:42:53] * bear_afk is now known as bear
  585. [21:51:51] * danja (n=danja@host76-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
  586. [21:51:52] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
  587. [21:52:01] * danja (n=danja@host76-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  588. [21:54:03] <DerrickPallas> But if I don't know that XFN, how do I tell that the XFN container restricts the scope of rel-tag?
  589. [21:55:20] * nfolson (n=nfolson@CPE-76-177-177-204.natsoe.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 148 (No route to host))
  590. [22:00:36] * nfolson (n=nfolson@CPE-76-177-177-204.natsoe.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  591. [22:03:50] <mfbot> [[icalendar-implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=icalendar-implementations&diff=0&oldid=13165 * MikeKaply * (+402) Microsoft Outlook -
  592. [22:08:08] * Kilianvalkhof (n=Kay@a80-100-213-232.adsl.xs4all.nl) Quit ("Leaving")
  593. [22:08:31] * amanuel (n=amanuel@integrity.niagara.com) Quit ()
  594. [22:36:08] * nfolson (n=nfolson@CPE-76-177-177-204.natsoe.res.rr.com) Quit ()
  595. [22:37:03] * OpenStandards (n=vir@ACBD0BC0.ipt.aol.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  596. [22:45:26] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  597. [22:45:26] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  598. [22:45:26] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  599. [22:54:38] * Henrich (n=Miranda@e176064127.adsl.alicedsl.de) Quit ("Bye for now ...")
  600. [22:57:23] <mfbot> [[citation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples&diff=0&oldid=13166 * Mike * (+260) Added quick reminder to
  601. [22:59:49] <mfbot> [[citation-examples-markup]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples-markup&diff=0&oldid=13167 * Mike * (+302) Citation Mark Up in the Wild - add Wolfram Mathworld example
  602. [23:03:45] <mfbot> [[citation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples&diff=0&oldid=13168 * Mike * (+347) Add Wolfram Mathworld example
  603. [23:04:16] <mfbot> [[citation-examples-markup]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples-markup&diff=0&oldid=13169 * Mike * (-69) Wolfram Mathworld -
  604. [23:09:52] * Phae (n=phae@80-41-114-99.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  605. [23:11:31] * ajturner (n=irc@d14-69-228-190.try.wideopenwest.com) Quit (Client Quit)
  606. [23:33:45] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  607. [23:36:59] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("http://gmachina.com - gaming feeds in bulk")
  608. [23:42:43] * Sevensor (n=sevensor@unaffiliated/sevensor) has joined #microformats
  609. [23:45:00] <Sevensor> Hi there, question for you all. Events/conferences/shows, would a combination of hCalendar, geo, and hCard be used to tag up these sort of things, or is there something in the works to address these things in their own format?
  610. [23:45:41] <DerrickPallas> I think the anti-scope people are going to drive me insane.
  611. [23:45:57] <DerrickPallas> hreview says "Tags are represented using a list of keywords or phrases (using the rel-tag microformat for each individual keyword or phrase tag) that the reviewer associates with the item."
  612. [23:46:49] <DerrickPallas> xfolk says that rel-tag indicates tags, which apply specifiically to the link.
  613. [23:47:19] <DerrickPallas> rel-tag itself says 'rel="tag" is NOT designed for "tagging" arbitrary URLs or external content.'
  614. [23:48:07] <DerrickPallas> Therefore there is a conflict of scope. Especially since the XMDP says "Indicates that the referred resource serves as a "tag", or keyword/subject, for the referring page."
  615. [23:48:13] * defunkt (n=cowboy@cn-sfo1-pix-natout.cnet.com) has joined #microformats
  616. [23:48:33] <DerrickPallas> That conflicts directly with the scope change in hReview, xFolk, hCard, and any other format in which rel-tag may be a feature.
  617. [23:49:46] <bewest> yes, I agree
  618. [23:49:54] <DerrickPallas> Then, instead of addressing the problem they start saying "interpreters do this, interpreters do that," which only illustrates the problem.
  619. [23:50:17] <DerrickPallas> normative != descriptive != consistent
  620. [23:50:21] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  621. [23:50:21] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  622. [23:50:21] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  623. [23:50:29] <bewest> hi tantek :-)
  624. [23:50:38] <bewest> congratulations in court
  625. [23:50:41] <bewest> congratulations in court
  626. [23:50:43] <bewest> doh
  627. [23:50:46] <DerrickPallas> Oh, goodness: my rant summoned Tantek from the ether!
  628. [23:50:47] <bewest> wrong buttons
  629. [23:51:28] <tantek> greetings - thanks!
  630. [23:52:09] <bewest> tantek: DerrickPallas and I have been scratching our heads at rel-tag
  631. [23:52:20] <tantek> btw - regarding the whole "What Are Microformats?" debate from a while ago (people wanting to rewrite the short definition) - I suggest people take advantage of the new <obplug>WTF feature on Technorati and write their own and vote on ones they like: http://technorati.com/wtf/microformats </obplug>
  632. [23:52:30] <tantek> ah rel-tag - is this still the context debate?
  633. [23:52:37] <bewest> tantek: the rel-tag pages indicate that the tag is applied largely to the page itself
  634. [23:52:39] <bewest> the document
  635. [23:52:53] <bewest> we see this as a conflict with other specs that say that rel-tag applies only to some part of the document
  636. [23:52:55] <tantek> i need to just write an FAQ about this
  637. [23:53:02] <tantek> we've discussed this like a half dozen times at least
  638. [23:53:09] <bewest> we'd like to know when rel-tag applies to what in such a way that you don't have to know about all microformats
  639. [23:53:43] <bewest> unless you /do/ have to know about all microformats (at least the top level containers), in which case I suppose we'll sigh and resign ourselves to the maintenance required
  640. [23:54:14] <bewest> I suppose we are making a disctinction between "applies" and "relates to"
  641. [23:54:49] <tantek> you only have to know about microformats that you care about
  642. [23:55:14] <DerrickPallas> What if you care about rel-tags that only apply to the whole document?
  643. [23:55:17] <tantek> with some specific microformats requiring knowledge of other specific microformats due to reuse of microformats as building blocks
  644. [23:55:19] <bewest> or to put it another way: how would a search engine know how to avoid false positives
  645. [23:55:25] <tantek> there is no such thing
  646. [23:55:29] <tantek> show me a real world example
  647. [23:55:46] * Sevensor (n=sevensor@unaffiliated/sevensor) Quit ("Leaving")
  648. [23:55:48] <tantek> we had this discussion already - analogous to books and keywords inside the front cover
  649. [23:56:32] <tantek> look inside the first few pages of most books and you will find a LoC cataloging data section
  650. [23:56:43] <tantek> with keywords like
  651. [23:56:55] <tantek> 1. SubjectA. 2. SubjectB 3. SubjectC
  652. [23:57:11] <tantek> from this you conclude that the book is "tagged" with those subjects
  653. [23:57:25] <tantek> even if not every chapter or page for that matter is about every subject
  654. [23:57:43] <bewest> I'm not sure how that relates to the web
  655. [23:57:48] <tantek> in practice, not only does it not matter that only part of a page is about a specific tag
  656. [23:57:50] <bewest> since we are talking about non-linear media
  657. [23:57:54] <tantek> but that it is ok
  658. [23:58:02] <tantek> analogy is book = page, chapters = parts of a pge
  659. [23:58:04] <tantek> page
  660. [23:58:31] <tantek> the point is, that it is OK that not every chapter is about every subject listed in the LoC data
  661. [23:58:37] <tantek> this is well established
  662. [23:58:48] <DerrickPallas> That contradicts what some of the microformats say about rel-tags inside of them.
  663. [23:58:52] <tantek> and thus it is OK that not every section in a web page is about every tag on that page
  664. [23:59:15] <tantek> DerrickPallas - specific URLs/quotations to such contradictions please?
  665. [23:59:26] <tantek> no the point of this is that the whole "scoping" kerfuffle is a redherring
  666. [23:59:31] <tantek> non-problem non-issue
  667. [23:59:37] * whafro (n=whafro@dsl092-150-081.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Connection timed out)
  668. [23:59:38] <DerrickPallas> xFolk says that the rel-tag applies to the link.
  669. [23:59:43] <tantek> right
  670. [23:59:55] <tantek> so if you care about more granularity, parse for more granularity

These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.

See http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot for more information.