IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-03-08
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [00:45:47] <mfbot>
[[rel-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-faq&diff=0&oldid=14113 * XrX * (+44) Is/Was VoteLinks a proper use of rel? -
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- [00:48:08] <mfbot>
[[rel-faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-faq&diff=0&oldid=14114 * Tantek * (-44) Reverted edit of XrX, changed back to last version by AndyMabbett
- [00:48:16] <tantek>
who is XrX?
- [00:48:31] <tantek>
rel nofollow may have issues, but they are different from vote-links issues.
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- [01:08:50] <jibot>
davecardwell is Dave Cardwell of http://davecardwell.co.uk/. He designs webs and generally geeks about in York, England.
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- [05:12:18] <jibot>
Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
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- [06:04:18] <mfbot>
[[firefox-extensions]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=firefox-extensions&diff=0&oldid=14115 * JamesCraig * (+1) Note: should this page be renamed plugins or something less vendor-specific than Operator?
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- [07:14:54] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [07:59:22] <jibot>
bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
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- [08:17:04] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [08:56:16] <jibot>
Charl is Charl van Niekerk and writes about standards at http://standards.za.net/
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- [08:58:41] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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- [09:22:45] <jibot>
woodss is Steven Woods, from Newcastle, UK (GMT 0000). His personal site is http://www.swoo.co.uk/ and Steven Woods, http://www.swoo.co.uk - He is situated in Newcastle, UK (GMT 0000).
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- [09:38:51] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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- [10:36:35] <jibot>
julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
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- [10:51:49] <jibot>
drewinthehead is a person too
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- [11:42:30] <jibot>
bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
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- [12:37:08] <drewinthehead>
?forgetme
- [12:37:08] <jibot>
I have expunged drewinthehead from my mind
- [12:38:25] <drewinthehead>
?def drewinthehead is Drew McLellan, a web developer for Yahoo! and a person too
- [12:38:25] <jibot>
drewinthehead is Drew McLellan, a web developer for Yahoo! and a person too
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- [12:55:10] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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- [13:11:06] <jibot>
Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
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- [13:26:27] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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- [14:21:47] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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- [14:23:13] <jibot>
ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com
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- [15:34:22] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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- [15:48:24] <mfbot>
[[hreview-examples-in-wild-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-examples-in-wild-fr&diff=0&oldid=14116 * ChristopheDucamp * (+154) Nouveaux Exemples -
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- [16:04:31] <jibot>
mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
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- [16:29:40] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=14117 * Christina Hope * (+140) New Examples -
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- [16:29:45] <jibot>
mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
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- [16:31:17] <jibot>
davecardwell is Dave Cardwell of http://davecardwell.co.uk/. He designs webs and generally geeks about in York, England.
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- [16:39:32] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=14118 * Christina Hope * (-837) Examples with some problems -
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- [17:23:02] <mkaply>
tantek: there's a bad microformat on your web page!
- [17:23:02] <mkaply>
<span class="location vcard">Renaissance Vancouver Hotel Harbourside</span>
- [17:24:52] <tantek>
oops!
- [17:25:03] <tantek>
good find mkaply :)
- [17:25:41] <mkaply>
It's all Operator :)
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- [17:44:15] * mkaply is trying to think of a clever way to expose his email to through operator but not through the web page
- [17:44:27] <mkaply>
Unfortunately, because email address use class="value"
- [17:44:37] <mkaply>
You can't use the "value" stuff to split it up, can you?
- [17:46:34] <mkaply>
ooh it does work. clever
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- [17:53:47] <mkaply>
briansuda:
- [17:53:50] <mkaply>
http://www.kaply.com/weblog/about
- [17:54:05] <mkaply>
Can you have values nested in values for email? This is working with operator but not with X2V
- [17:54:32] <Prometheus^>
ibm, scary man!
- [17:54:36] <Prometheus^>
:D
- [17:54:52] <briansuda>
example?
- [17:55:07] <mkaply>
briansuda: I just put it on my weblog. I obfuscated my email using microformats
- [17:55:12] <mkaply>
http://www.kaply.com/weblog/about
- [17:55:36] <mkaply>
<SPAN class="email"><SPAN class="value"><BR/>
- [17:55:36] <mkaply>
<SPAN class="value">m</SPAN>no<SPAN class="value">k</SPAN>lm<SPAN class="value">a</SPAN>bc<SPAN class="value">p</SPAN>qr<SPAN class="value">l</SPAN>mn<SPAN class="value">y</SPAN>za<SPAN class="value">@</SPAN><SPAN class="value">u</SPAN>vw<SPAN class="value">s</SPAN>tu<SPAN class="value">.</SPAN><SPAN class="value">i</SPAN>jk<SPAN class="value">b</SPAN>cd<SPAN class="value">m</SPAN>no<SPAN class="value">.</SPAN><SPAN class="value">c</SPAN
- [17:55:36] <mkaply>
>de<SPAN class="value">o</SPAN>pq<SPAN class="value">m</SPAN>no</SPAN></SPAN>
- [17:55:36] <mkaply>
</P>
- [17:55:50] <Prometheus^>
you don't like spam, do you
- [17:55:51] <Prometheus^>
:)
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- [17:56:25] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
- [17:56:30] <mkaply>
Prometheus^: I just thought it would be fine to show how you can use a microformat to obfuscate the email. It came to me in a dream
- [17:56:45] <Prometheus^>
mkaply: it's :)
- [17:56:57] <mkaply>
s/fine/fun
- [17:57:07] <Prometheus^>
btw, I don't find IBM people really all that scary, my dad works for ibm too
- [17:57:08] <briansuda>
is that on a page somewhere so i can see X2V output?
- [17:57:24] <mkaply>
http://www.kaply.com/weblog/about
- [17:57:49] <briansuda>
ah, don't wrap everything in it inside a class="value"
- [17:58:06] <mkaply>
duh
- [17:58:08] * mkaply fixes that
- [17:58:25] <mkaply>
wait
- [17:58:41] <mkaply>
class="value" for an email works like class="value' for everything else?
- [17:59:26] <mkaply>
wait. this should work.
- [18:02:48] <mkaply>
Ah. I see my problem. I see a "value" and take the "there must be a type" path.
- [18:03:07] <mkaply>
So if there is one value, I should check for more than one value and do something different
- [18:09:38] <briansuda>
??? not sure what you mean
- [18:09:46] <briansuda>
we don't have alot of test cases for VALUE
- [18:10:02] <briansuda>
there are some issues of nesting and including things multiple times.
- [18:10:15] <briansuda>
A->B->C, then you will get ABCBC
- [18:10:40] <briansuda>
or maybe ABCC?
- [18:13:58] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
- [18:14:00] <mkaply>
briansuda: email is kind of weird in terms of how it gets handles.
- [18:14:02] <mkaply>
There can be this
- [18:14:15] <mkaply>
<A href="mailto:neuroNOSPAM@t37.net" class="email">
- [18:14:15] <mkaply>
<SPAN class="type">pref</SPAN><SPAN>erred email</SPAN>
- [18:14:15] <mkaply>
</A>
- [18:14:24] <mkaply>
or this
- [18:15:18] <mkaply>
<span class="email"><span class="type">work</span><span class="value">foo@bar.com</span></span<
- [18:15:28] <mkaply>
or <span class="email">email address</span>
- [18:15:28] <briansuda>
i'd say the first would NOT find the TYPE
- [18:15:36] <briansuda>
but i think it does
- [18:15:43] <mkaply>
actually, the first is supposed to per the "hard testcases"
- [18:16:12] <briansuda>
ok.
- [18:16:28] * mkaply tries to find that page
- [18:17:01] <mkaply>
http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-examples#GEO_parsing
- [18:17:51] <mkaply>
I ws mishandling value. If I saw a value in email, I assumed it was for the purpose of saving the entire email. Now I check to see if there are multiple values under email, it is the "value" design pattern
- [18:19:02] <briansuda>
i would say that example is NOT a test example. (it is probably incorrect in my opinion)
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- [18:19:10] <briansuda>
it doesn't "smell" right
- [18:19:20] <briansuda>
anyone could have added that to the wiki.
- [18:19:55] <mkaply>
email is really the only one you can do that with because the value can be contained in a single tag
- [18:19:58] <mkaply>
although, is this valid?
- [18:20:23] <mkaply>
<abbr class="tel" title="5551212"><span type="work">work</span></abbr>
- [18:23:01] <briansuda>
is it?
- [18:23:18] <mkaply>
I don't know. I'm asking you :)
- [18:23:26] <mkaply>
it's the same pattern as the email thing
- [18:23:26] <briansuda>
i would say class="tel" is the container, then look for a type. IF you have TYPE then you have to have VALUE
- [18:23:39] <mkaply>
ok, that's the issue. Does type require value.
- [18:23:54] <briansuda>
i'm not sure if there are parsing rules somewhere for that? let me check the test suite...
- [18:23:59] * iand (n=iand@talis.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [18:24:03] <briansuda>
shouldn't you be at SXSW in a bar somewhere?
- [18:24:12] <mkaply>
it hasn't started yet.
- [18:24:32] <mkaply>
Besides, I still need to get Operator working well enough to demo it.
- [18:25:59] <mkaply>
briansuda: I'm considering adding an outlook specific export option. There are so many bugs in Outlook.
- [18:26:33] <briansuda>
such as? and we have a wiki page which lists most of them
- [18:28:02] <briansuda>
http://hg.microformats.org/tests?f=859c45b9fe6d;file=hcard/21-tel.html;style=gitweb is the TEL test, i would say this is the only authoritative test on TYPE/VALUES
- [18:28:33] <mkaply>
it doesn't handle utf8
- [18:28:40] <mkaply>
that's a biggie
- [18:28:59] <mkaply>
I was pretty frustrated to find that out
- [18:29:09] <briansuda>
well, other address books had the same issue, but it was a case of no BOM (byte order markers)
- [18:29:31] <mkaply>
At this point, my export looks just like yours, and I believe it would work on Mac no prob
- [18:29:34] <mkaply>
Just not on outlook express
- [18:29:43] <mkaply>
s/outlook express/outlook
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- [18:43:35] <jibot>
davecardwell is Dave Cardwell of http://davecardwell.co.uk/. He designs webs and generally geeks about in York, England.
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- [18:46:36] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
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- [18:47:07] <kingryan>
howdy folks
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- [19:00:50] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [19:04:55] <jibot>
jcw9 is Jon Williams and can be found online at http://wizardishungry.com/blog/
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- [19:16:16] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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- [19:30:10] <mkaply>
someone needs to educate o'reilly etech on good microformats
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- [19:32:26] <briansuda>
what do you mean?
- [19:35:42] <mkaply>
briansuda: they have the entire microformat nested in the summary
- [19:35:48] <mkaply>
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/52/tutorials.html
- [19:36:38] <mkaply>
and when people do this it drives me crazy
- [19:36:39] <mkaply>
<SPAN class="location"><B>Location:</B> Gallery<BR/></SPAN>
- [19:36:39] <briansuda>
well, not optimal, but not incorrect
- [19:36:52] * briansuda agrees!!!
- [19:36:55] <mkaply>
well, it means that when you grab the summary, you get the entire microformat which ends up with a crappy summary
- [19:37:10] <briansuda>
true, but not incorrect/invalid
- [19:37:35] <mkaply>
I'm seeing a weird character when I send the location to google though. Can't figure out what it is
- [19:37:50] <mkaply>
in the location
- [19:37:56] <mkaply>
must be something I'm doing
- [19:38:16] <briansuda>
or maybe it is a weird Unicode char that you can't see?
- [19:38:27] <briansuda>
like a NULL or a bad LineBreak or something
- [19:40:15] <kingryan>
anyone wanna help markup http://2007.sxsw.com/interactive/evening_events/ with hcalendar?
- [19:40:39] * trovster (n=trovster@user-544318bd.lns4-c7.dsl.pol.co.uk) has joined #microformats
- [19:40:39] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
- [19:41:09] <mkaply>
Yeah. I think it is a weird unicode char
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- [19:41:24] <mkaply>
kingryan: Can we get them to fix their session page so it doesn't have all the people in hidden microformats?
- [19:41:37] <kingryan>
they said they were going to
- [19:41:41] <kingryan>
has it not been done?
- [19:41:46] <ianloic>
hmm,
- [19:41:55] * briansuda has seen lots of crazy stuff since he started looking at other peoples HTML - slightly voyeuristic
- [19:42:27] * mkaply goes to look again
- [19:42:29] <ianloic>
I wonder if there's a place for a greasemonkey-like tool to add the right classes and rels to pages so operator can grok them
- [19:42:54] <mkaply>
kingryan: ah. it's done.
- [19:42:59] <briansuda>
how would the greasemonkey know where to put them?
- [19:43:01] <mkaply>
kingryan: much better - microformats only on the panels
- [19:43:25] <ianloic>
briansuda, well it could be a platform for writing little scripts to mark up pages in a known format with microformats
- [19:43:32] <tantek>
but is the big list of speakers still marked up with hundreds of hCards?
- [19:43:40] <ianloic>
so I could write a script that would turn yelp pages into valid hReviews
- [19:44:16] <mkaply>
tantek: no. hurrah
- [19:44:19] <mkaply>
http://2007.sxsw.com/interactive/programming/speakers/
- [19:44:31] <tantek>
why hurrah for no?
- [19:44:56] <mkaply>
tantek: because they really didn't convey any information except a web page. And they made Operator slow :)
- [19:45:27] <tantek>
mkaply, even just name+url is very valuable
- [19:45:29] <tantek>
so "any information except" is not sufficient reasoning
- [19:45:37] <tantek>
and if they made operator slow then it was a good test case
- [19:46:02] <tantek>
besides, how else are you supposed to be able to 1-click add all 450+ speakers to your address book?
- [19:46:08] <mkaply>
tantek: I have big testcases :) What I need is Firefox getElementsByClassName. I think that will help immensely.
- [19:46:40] <mkaply>
I use Lotus Notes address book - it wouldn't work anyway! !:)
- [19:46:57] <tantek>
uh what? Lotus Notes address book doesn't support vCard? you're kidding right?
- [19:47:33] <bewest>
mkaply: do you really need to wait for a built-in getElementsByClassName/getElementsBySelector ? there are plenty of pure-javascript implementations available, some of which automatically optimize the queries for a particular browser
- [19:47:34] <mkaply>
it supports vcard, but only via manual import.
- [19:47:52] <mkaply>
so I can only make it work in Operator to save the card, and then import.
- [19:47:54] <bewest>
eg, there is a version of getElementsBySelector which will, in firefox, recalculate the query into an XPATH query
- [19:47:55] <mkaply>
Plus it is finicky
- [19:48:15] * bear is now known as bear_afk
- [19:48:45] <mkaply>
bewest: Either they have an incompatible license or they don't work "standalone"
- [19:48:57] * mkaply loves open source
- [19:51:35] <mkaply>
DomQuery looks good but requires one function from yahooui
- [19:51:53] <mkaply>
I don't feel like bringing along dojo for dojo.query
- [19:52:25] <bewest>
so rip it out
- [19:52:35] <bewest>
there are plenty of standalone versions
- [19:53:19] <mkaply>
jquery is available under MIT, but I'll have to go through and remove all the crap I don't need
- [19:53:28] <bewest>
http://www.joehewitt.com/blog/files/getElementsBySelector.js
- [19:53:32] <bewest>
standalone
- [19:54:39] <mkaply>
bewest: I'm already using xpath. I need a good library that work in IE and Firefox, and uses xpath only when it is faster
- [19:54:40] <mkaply>
http://blog.dojotoolkit.org/2007/02/04/dojoquery-a-css-query-engine-for-dojo
- [19:54:56] <mkaply>
I'm still working on finding all my bottlenecks
- [19:55:31] <bewest>
in that case: http://dean.edwards.name/weblog/2006/03/faster/
- [19:56:18] <bewest>
I like prototype.js, personally
- [19:56:32] <bewest>
I like using the event handling stuff too
- [19:56:43] <bewest>
and the bind() stuff comes in handy as well
- [19:59:31] * mkaply actually does need a page with 500 hcards. Anyone know of one?
- [20:00:23] * pnhChris works with both prototype and jquery
- [20:00:53] <pnhChris>
but haven't done any serious performance comparisons between them
- [20:01:43] <mkaply>
Isn't there someone around that works at flock?
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- [20:03:04] <pnhChris>
most i find on a quick look around is 83 cards
- [20:03:39] <mkaply>
pnhChris: can you give me one of those? Maybe it's slow too
- [20:03:51] <mkaply>
plus I can duplicate it. Since one of my bottlenecks is removing duplicates
- [20:04:01] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@hq.last.fm) Quit ("goodbye, farewell, auf Wiedersehen")
- [20:04:11] * mkaply should add a disclaimer in prefs
- [20:04:17] <pnhChris>
http://www.webstandards.org/about/members/
- [20:04:27] <pnhChris>
though probably not too many dupes there
- [20:04:44] <pnhChris>
.. unless you dupe them yourself
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- [20:06:22] <mkaply>
hangs operator for a second. Let me make it bigger
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- [20:08:06] <mkaply>
551. Nice hang
- [20:11:22] <mkaply>
It's actually the XUL / menu creation stuff that's taking so long, not the DOM parsing
- [20:13:43] * mkaply really doesn't feel like switching back to building menus on the fly
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- [20:28:44] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
- [20:30:27] <mfbot>
[[events/2007-04-15-Web2Expo]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-04-15-Web2Expo&diff=0&oldid=14119 * Rohit * (+743)
- [20:32:08] <mfbot>
[[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=14120 * Rohit * (+201) Upcoming -
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- [20:45:39] <mfbot>
[[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=14121 * Rohit * (-154) Upcoming -
- [20:47:10] <mfbot>
[[events/2007-03-27-ETech07Proposal]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-03-27-ETech07Proposal&diff=0&oldid=14122 * Rohit * (+20)
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- [21:18:55] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [21:36:48] <mkaply>
So general opinion question - is it important to remove duplicate hcard and hcalendar entries? How common will that be where two microformats that are EXACTLY the same are on a page?
- [21:37:19] <tantek>
reasonably common on blogs where every hyperlinked reference to a person is marked up semantically as an hCard
- [21:37:34] <mkaply>
like yedda.
- [21:37:46] <mkaply>
The problem is it is a very expensive operation in Javascript.
- [21:37:52] * mkaply will figure out how to optimize it
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- [21:39:51] <kingryan>
anyone else having trouble connecting to microformats.org?
- [21:44:51] * briansuda says it works for him
- [21:45:05] <kingryan>
it appears to be our office isp dns
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- [22:10:05] <mkaply>
does anyone know if class="uid" outside of a microformat has any semantic meaning?
- [22:10:07] * tantek (n=tantek@m010f36d0.tmodns.net) Quit ()
- [22:10:54] <bewest>
mkaply: iirc, it doesn't even show up in Google's HTML authoring report
- [22:11:12] <bewest>
then again neither does vcard
- [22:11:28] <mkaply>
I really want to eliminate the duplicate hcalendars on eventful.com. The only way to tell them apart is that microsoft in all of their live clipboard samples does
- [22:11:37] <mkaply>
<SPAN title="E0-001-001775953-8" class="vevent uid">
- [22:11:54] <mkaply>
uid and vevent on the vevent span
- [22:12:03] <briansuda>
it should be a child of vevent
- [22:12:35] <mkaply>
Microsoft's live clipboard samples suck so bad. They encouraged eventful.com to duplicate their microformat on the page. Stupid
- [22:12:53] <mkaply>
as opposed to Live clipboard being able to be attached to an existing microformat
- [22:13:44] <bewest>
although class="uid" appears on aproximately 32k documents
- [22:14:16] <mkaply>
actually, that's an eventful bug. Maybe I can use it to my advantage...
- [22:14:18] * defunkt (n=cowboy@cn-sfo1-pix-natout.cnet.com) has joined #microformats
- [22:14:21] <mkaply>
http://spaces.live.com/editorial/rayozzie/demo/liveclip/liveclipsample/clipboardexample.html
- [22:14:23] <briansuda>
some of the eventful developers are normally in this channel
- [22:14:25] <mkaply>
doesn't have uid on vevent
- [22:15:14] <bewest>
what's an eventful bug?
- [22:15:45] <mkaply>
bewest, well it depends. If they intended that uid to be associated with the vevent, it should have been in the vevent.
- [22:15:47] <mkaply>
Not on the vevent
- [22:15:58] <mkaply>
and they are using title= in a SPAN to mean the uid
- [22:19:40] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=14123 * AndyMabbett * (+89) SVG hCard
- [22:20:01] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=14124 * AndyMabbett * (+0) -==Non-HTML examples= - fix sub-head
- [22:20:27] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=14125 * AndyMabbett * (+18) Non-HTML examples - credit
- [22:20:43] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=14126 * AndyMabbett * (+0) Non-HTML examples - punct
- [22:21:36] * tantek (n=tantek@m010f36d0.tmodns.net) has joined #microformats
- [22:21:36] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [22:21:36] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [22:23:20] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [22:23:20] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
- [22:23:20] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
- [22:29:00] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
- [22:29:00] * ChanServ sets mode +o drewinthehead
- [22:29:00] <jibot>
drewinthehead is Drew McLellan, a web developer for Yahoo! and a person too
- [22:30:12] <kingryan>
hober: you see the discussion above re: eventful and uid?
- [22:35:05] * hober catches up
- [22:36:01] <hober>
Ahh.
- [22:36:32] <mkaply>
hober: I just wish there was some way that eventful.com microformats looked prettier in Operator
- [22:36:34] <hober>
mkaply: I'll try to fix the UID markup in the next few days
- [22:36:40] <hober>
mkaply: me too
- [22:36:53] <hober>
ObLiveClipboardGrumble
- [22:37:07] <mkaply>
hober: There's no need for a separate microformat for live clipboard
- [22:37:10] <kingryan>
hober: would you consider adding UID to the events (venues already have it)?
- [22:37:28] <mkaply>
hober: I created testcases where the live clipboard was attached to an existing microformats
- [22:37:57] <hober>
mkaply: agreed; it was a misunderstanding on the part of the developer who implemented our LiveClipboard support
- [22:38:01] <mkaply>
IT's only the microsoft sampels where they do it twice
- [22:38:14] <hober>
kingryan: yes, adding to ~/TODO
- [22:38:17] <mkaply>
hober: especially since your Live Clipboard microformats aren't as complete as your page microformats
- [22:38:25] <hober>
exactly
- [22:39:47] <briansuda>
hopefully Operator can bridge that gap and make ANY microformat a Live ClipBoard object and remove the need for both
- [22:40:42] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-f0db0ba797fe2453) has joined #microformats
- [22:40:59] <mkaply>
briansuda: That was one of the ideas :)
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- [22:41:15] <mkaply>
all these sites could drop their "add to foo calendar" and just use Operator! :)
- [22:41:16] * ChanServ sets mode +o KevinMarks
- [22:41:27] <mkaply>
Especially since it works better than the built in upcoming version
- [22:41:28] <mkaply>
:)
- [22:41:39] * mkaply hasn't checked the eventful bugs lately
- [22:41:39] <briansuda>
or FF3
- [22:41:54] <mkaply>
The FF3 thing is confusing. I'm sure I'll get asked that Monday.
- [22:42:03] <mkaply>
They haven't decided what they want to do with mciroformats, they just know they want them
- [22:42:10] <mkaply>
So there is no guarantee the work I am doing will go in there.
- [22:42:10] <mfbot>
[[citation]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation&diff=0&oldid=14127 * AndyMabbett * (+40) link to Wikipedia (for definition)
- [22:42:16] <mkaply>
But when they talk about microformats, they point to my work
- [22:42:35] <briansuda>
right
- [22:43:03] <mkaply>
hober: Incidentally, I can probably help you guys with some other bugs.
- [22:43:08] <mkaply>
I sent the page along, but the bugs are still there
- [22:43:13] <mkaply>
http://www.kaply.com/weblog/operator-testing/
- [22:43:42] <mkaply>
I went through a lot of pain to figure out when google and yahoo want encodeURI vs. just escaping a few characters (sometimes encodeURI does too much)
- [22:43:56] <hober>
Yeah, I remember that being painful
- [22:44:18] <hober>
Hopefully we'll switch over to using GData for the 'add to google calendar' bit
- [22:44:36] <mkaply>
Doesn't GData require you to get the login token though?
- [22:44:55] <hober>
You jump through AuthSub hoops, sure.
- [22:45:28] <mkaply>
I was hoping to avoid those hoops in Operator. :)
- [22:45:36] <mkaply>
30 boxes said "use our API"
- [22:45:38] <hober>
*nod*
- [22:45:45] <mkaply>
but then I have to put login features into Operator
- [22:45:52] <mkaply>
As opposed to just letting 30boxes/google/yahoo handle it
- [22:45:59] <hober>
We already have a GData client, that we use for Google Base, so it's not much of a step from there
- [22:47:13] <mkaply>
I'll probably have to think about it at some point. So do/will people store their gmail user/pass in their eventful acccount?
- [22:47:44] <hober>
No, AuthSub works similarly to OpenID
- [22:48:13] <hober>
We end up with an opaque token that allows us to do certain things for the user for a certain amount of time, but at no time do you give us your password.
- [22:48:29] <mkaply>
So how do you get them to login the first time?
- [22:48:46] <hober>
http://code.google.com/apis/accounts/AuthForWebApps.html
- [22:49:11] <mkaply>
ah
- [22:49:14] <mkaply>
interesting
- [22:50:46] <mkaply>
Ah. but it redirects to a page in your webapp. So it only works in a web app
- [22:50:57] <hober>
right.
- [22:51:02] <hober>
this is what you do otherwise: http://code.google.com/apis/accounts/AuthForInstalledApps.html
- [22:51:14] <hober>
That's the form of auth we're using for our Google Base injection
- [22:51:58] <mkaply>
but in the authforinstalled apps, you need user/pass. I'm caught somewhere in the middle :(
- [22:52:03] * tommorris_ (n=tommorri@i-83-67-98-32.freedom2surf.net) has joined #microformats
- [22:52:20] <hober>
Indeed you are
- [22:53:04] <bewest>
why do people believe that microformat development methodology introduces a bottleneck to web development?!
- [22:53:55] <mkaply>
They must think backwards
- [22:54:24] * tantek (n=tantek@m010f36d0.tmodns.net) Quit ()
- [22:54:53] <tommorris_>
bewest: any specifics?
- [22:55:34] <bewest>
the thread called Zen of Microformats
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- [22:57:37] <kingryan>
message from ian, right?
- [22:57:48] <bewest>
despite having a process definition, people still percieve microformat methodology to be a prescriptive form of prediction
- [22:57:48] * tommorris_ has just started publishing restaurant reviews as hReview.
- [22:57:48] <bewest>
yes
- [22:57:54] <bewest>
this is a major failing in our communication
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- [22:58:28] <bewest>
kingryan: but he's just the latest... it comes up all the time
- [22:58:58] <tommorris_>
The microformats process is fine in that it solves 80% of the problem. There can be other processes to solve domain-specific problems (*cough*)
- [22:59:45] * briansuda agrees, it is MICRO
- [23:01:50] <kingryan>
tommorris_: you're more than welcome to pursue those processes :D
- [23:02:14] <bewest>
there are other processes to solve domain-agnostic problems as well
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- [23:52:33] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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