IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-04-11
Timestamps are in UTC.
- [00:01:56] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("http://gmachina.com - gaming feeds in bulk")
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- [00:14:23] <mfbot>
[[distributed-conversation-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=distributed-conversation-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=15422 * RyanKing * (+5495) Reverted edit of Ne0V35, changed back to last version by Tantek
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[[RelTag]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=RelTag&diff=0&oldid=15423 * QxhT4j * (-1)
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[[Main Page-jp]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-jp&diff=0&oldid=15424 * PigN8j * (-1)
- [00:34:17] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Aay032.isk.mesh.ad.jp) has joined #microformats
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[[adr-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=15425 * YzvHva * (-3578)
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[[htodo]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=htodo&diff=0&oldid=15426 * NroJh0 * (-673)
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[[adr-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=15427 * RyanKing * (+3578) Reverted edit of YzvHva, changed back to last version by ChristopheDucamp
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[[htodo]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=htodo&diff=0&oldid=15428 * RyanKing * (+673) Reverted edit of NroJh0, changed back to last version by Smackman
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[[User:ScottReynen]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:ScottReynen&diff=0&oldid=15429 * ScottReynen * (+6)
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[[adr-poll]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr-poll&diff=0&oldid=15430 * ScottReynen * (+36) Object -
- [01:37:55] <mfbot>
[[adr-poll]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr-poll&diff=0&oldid=15431 * ScottReynen * (+369) General comments -
- [01:39:11] <mfbot>
[[adr-poll]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr-poll&diff=0&oldid=15432 * ScottReynen * (+29) General comments -
- [01:47:46] * punter (n=punter@ipa159.37.91.tellas.gr) has joined #microformats
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[[hreview-issues-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=15433 * CsuWt2 * (-5984)
- [02:21:38] <mfbot>
[[rel-home-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-home-fr&diff=0&oldid=15434 * LnhSeu * (-283)
- [02:26:29] <mfbot>
[[User:TimG]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:TimG&diff=0&oldid=15435 * SdvR62 * (-4)
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- [02:50:11] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:SdvR62" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
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[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:LnhSeu" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
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[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:CsuWt2" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
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[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:NroJh0" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
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[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:YzvHva" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
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[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:PigN8j" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
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[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:QxhT4j" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
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[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:UgdVlu" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
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[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:Lt3Mm7" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
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[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:Ne0V35" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
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[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:BnrVug" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
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[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:TdrMye" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
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[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:BkdRgz" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
- [02:51:20] * defunkt (n=cowboy@cn-sfo1-pix-natout.cnet.com) Quit ()
- [02:51:40] <mfbot>
[[hreview-issues-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=15436 * Tantek * (+5984) Reverted edit of CsuWt2, changed back to last version by ChristopheDucamp
- [02:51:41] <mfbot>
[[rel-home-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-home-fr&diff=0&oldid=15437 * Tantek * (+283) Reverted edit of LnhSeu, changed back to last version by ChristopheDucamp
- [02:51:47] <mfbot>
[[User:TimG]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:TimG&diff=0&oldid=15438 * Tantek * (+4) Reverted edit of SdvR62, changed back to last version by TimG
- [02:52:02] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=15439 * ManuSporny * (+232) Exploratory Discussions -
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- [03:31:25] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [03:38:30] <mfbot>
[[audio-info-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/audio-info-examples * ManuSporny * (+2243) Initial creation of page, introductory section, and problem description
- [03:45:07] <mfbot>
[[audio-info-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=15440 * ManuSporny * (+24640) Added speech and music sections, merged many of the findings from music media-info over
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[[audio-info-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=15441 * ManuSporny * (+513) Added audio podcasting section for Alexandre Van de Sande
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- [03:55:41] <jibot>
redmonk is Steve Ivy, http://redmonk.net and is linklogging at http://deliciouslymeta.com
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[[audio-info-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=15442 * ManuSporny * (+13) Participants -
- [04:05:34] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
- [04:05:35] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
- [04:09:11] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
- [04:09:15] <mfbot>
[[audio-info-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=15443 * ManuSporny * (+837) Existing Practices -
- [04:09:36] <mfbot>
[[audio-info-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=15444 * ManuSporny * (+6) Summary of common patterns discovered -
- [04:11:58] <mfbot>
[[audio-info-formats]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/audio-info-formats * ManuSporny * (+800) Adding audio metadata formats section
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[[media-info-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-formats&diff=0&oldid=15445 * ManuSporny * (-699) Audio Metadata Formats -
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- [04:30:55] <mfbot>
[[audio-info-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-formats&diff=0&oldid=15446 * ManuSporny * (+1809) Merged a ton of information over from media-info-formats, tried to attribute everybody that should be attributed.
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[[VoteLinksFAQ]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=VoteLinksFAQ&diff=0&oldid=15447 * Xe0K9a * (-1)
- [04:39:48] <mfbot>
[[audio-info-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=15448 * ManuSporny * (+123) Participants -
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[[Hcalendar-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Hcalendar-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=15449 * WibGj1 * (-1)
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[[audio-info-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=15450 * ManuSporny * (+1311) Added template section for adding new entries
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- [05:04:57] <mfbot>
[[audio-info-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=15451 * ManuSporny * (+4) A NOTE ABOUT CONTRIBUTING - USE TEMPLATES -
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[[audio-info-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=15452 * ManuSporny * (+351) Audio Info -
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[[igtd-syntax]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/igtd-syntax * Chris Messina * (+2191)
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[[audio-info-brainstorming]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/audio-info-brainstorming * ManuSporny * (+1153) Created first version of the brainstorming page
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- [06:45:09] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
- [06:53:58] * tylerr (n=tylerr@c-24-16-148-66.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
- [06:53:58] <jibot>
tylerr is Tyler Roehmholdt and involves himself in the HTML WG and WaSP-related advocacy.
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- [07:42:54] <mfbot>
[[datetime-design-pattern-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=datetime-design-pattern-fr&diff=0&oldid=15453 * RmtB2u * (-10921)
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- [07:57:50] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
- [08:12:36] <mfbot>
[[User:TimG]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:TimG&diff=0&oldid=15454 * CgrJm1 * (-4)
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- [09:37:26] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@hq.last.fm) has joined #microformats
- [09:37:27] <jibot>
julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
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[[adr-poll]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr-poll&diff=0&oldid=15455 * Brian * (+984) General comments -
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- [10:33:29] <jibot>
bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
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[[xoxo]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo&diff=0&oldid=15456 * GuyLeech * (+131) More Simple Examples -
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- [12:11:21] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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[[blog-description-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-description-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=15457 * CvxD0w * (-2708)
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- [12:57:27] <jibot>
Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
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[[location-formats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=location-formats-fr&diff=0&oldid=15458 * Qv0Y98 * (-14130)
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[[rex-proposal-preso]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rex-proposal-preso&diff=0&oldid=15459 * Ss5Mjf * (-1)
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[[rest/microformat-pub-protocol]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/microformat-pub-protocol&diff=0&oldid=15460 * MuwEo0 * (-2658)
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- [14:08:52] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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- [14:14:16] <jibot>
mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
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- [14:26:15] <tantek>
briansuda, KevinMarks, and any other adminhelp, it appears we are under a new kind of bot attack, I will be reverting/blocking shortly, but if you guys could check during the day and help out with cleanup that would be good.
- [14:26:28] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:MuwEo0" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
- [14:26:33] * briansuda will have a look
- [14:26:33] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:Ss5Mjf" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
- [14:26:39] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:Qv0Y98" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
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- [14:27:00] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:CvxD0w" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
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[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:CgrJm1" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
- [14:27:27] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:RmtB2u" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
- [14:27:33] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:WibGj1" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
- [14:27:44] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:Xe0K9a" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
- [14:27:56] <mfbot>
[[rest/microformat-pub-protocol]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/microformat-pub-protocol&diff=0&oldid=15461 * Tantek * (+2658) Reverted edit of MuwEo0, changed back to last version by DrErnie
- [14:28:07] <mfbot>
[[location-formats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=location-formats-fr&diff=0&oldid=15462 * Tantek * (+14130) Reverted edit of Qv0Y98, changed back to last version by ChristopheDucamp
- [14:28:17] <mfbot>
[[blog-description-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-description-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=15463 * Tantek * (+2708) Reverted edit of CvxD0w, changed back to last version by ChristopheDucamp
- [14:29:49] <mfbot>
[[User:TimG]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:TimG&diff=0&oldid=15464 * Tantek * (+4) Reverted edit of CgrJm1, changed back to last version by Tantek
- [14:29:55] <mfbot>
[[datetime-design-pattern-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=datetime-design-pattern-fr&diff=0&oldid=15465 * Tantek * (+10921) Reverted edit of RmtB2u, changed back to last version by ChristopheDucamp
- [14:37:46] <mkaply>
Can't you turn on restrictions so that people can't get new IDs unless they are verified by email?
- [14:38:12] <briansuda>
kingryyan knows more about the wiki setup
- [14:38:20] <briansuda>
he would be the one to ask
- [14:38:21] <mkaply>
Mozilla is having the same thing happen to them
- [14:38:42] <mkaply>
script kiddies are jerks
- [14:39:02] <briansuda>
it only takes a few to ruin it for everyone
- [14:39:21] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
- [14:47:33] <briansuda>
looks like the university of wisconsin is starting to use some hCards http://www.wisconsin.edu/contact/new.php?searchbox=Sheri%20Ackley&details=full
- [14:52:27] * mattis^ (n=mattis^@i59F731F1.versanet.de) Quit (Success)
- [14:53:22] <mfbot>
[[how-to-play-ja]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=how-to-play-ja&diff=0&oldid=15466 * Gn2Rgs * (-612)
- [14:53:54] * AGraf`` (n=Ashe@c703-fwngw.uibk.ac.at) Quit ("Quit")
- [14:55:53] <mfbot>
[[how-to-play-ja]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=how-to-play-ja&diff=0&oldid=15467 * Brian * (+612) Reverted edit of Gn2Rgs, changed back to last version by IwaiMasaharu
- [14:56:09] <mfbot>
[[distributed-conversation-brainstorming-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=distributed-conversation-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=15468 * BdoZol * (-15357)
- [14:56:49] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) blocked "User:Gn2Rgs" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
- [14:57:01] <mfbot>
[[distributed-conversation-brainstorming-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=distributed-conversation-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=15469 * Brian * (+15357) Reverted edit of BdoZol, changed back to last version by ChristopheDucamp
- [14:57:26] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) blocked "User:BdoZol" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
- [15:02:52] * cgriego (n=cgriego@216.138.69.206) has joined #microformats
- [15:02:53] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
- [15:19:43] * Charl (n=Charl@spotter.nmmu.ac.za) has joined #microformats
- [15:19:43] <jibot>
Charl is Charl van Niekerk and writes about standards at http://standards.za.net/
- [15:23:32] * mkaply wishes he'd brought his microformats book to work
- [15:24:46] <briansuda>
:)
- [15:24:54] <mkaply>
ok, i'm confused about hresume
- [15:25:00] <mkaply>
experience is a vevent
- [15:25:03] <briansuda>
yes
- [15:25:12] <briansuda>
class="experience vevent"
- [15:25:15] <mkaply>
but job title is a vcard that is a child of the experience?
- [15:25:27] <mkaply>
http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume#Experience
- [15:25:29] <mkaply>
isn't clear about this
- [15:26:02] <briansuda>
what exactly is the question?
- [15:26:09] * daggi (n=chrisada@82-45-160-216.cable.ubr05.hari.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit ()
- [15:26:11] <briansuda>
you will need a vcard for each position
- [15:26:20] <tantek>
an hCard even ;)
- [15:26:52] <tantek>
the first hCard descendant inside the experience hCalendar event
- [15:27:47] <mkaply>
then there should be specific class for it. like class="position vcard"
- [15:27:58] <briansuda>
why?
- [15:28:16] <briansuda>
you want to know what was the company and what was the job?
- [15:28:18] <mkaply>
how do I know I'm not grabbing the vcard for the location of the company?
- [15:28:36] <briansuda>
a company wouldn't have a job title
- [15:28:47] <briansuda>
fn !== org
- [15:29:26] <tantek>
mkaply, simply grab the *first* hCard inside the experience
- [15:29:44] <mkaply>
tantek: I can't. That might be the hcard of the company, not the hcard of the person and their position
- [15:30:03] <tantek>
there is no separate hCard of the company
- [15:30:09] <mkaply>
tantek: there can be in the vevent location
- [15:30:21] <tantek>
the hCard of the person/position includes the org name etc. of the company
- [15:30:48] <mkaply>
So are you saying that in an hresume, it is mandatory that the location in the experience vevent be a vcard?
- [15:31:21] <briansuda>
it makes the most sense that if i work for XYZ company, i would just have ONE hCard for my position in ORG=XYZ
- [15:31:40] <tantek>
i'm not saying that at all - actually the contrary, that it is unlikely that locations of experience events will have hCards themselves
- [15:31:43] <tantek>
what brian said too
- [15:31:48] <briansuda>
not an hCard for my position and a seperate one for the company
- [15:31:54] <tantek>
right
- [15:32:12] <tantek>
plus, location is often disjoint from an experience event
- [15:32:40] <tantek>
i.e. you might have several different offices over the course of a single job
- [15:32:43] <mkaply>
interesting
- [15:32:44] <mkaply>
<DIV class="experience vevent vcard">
- [15:32:52] <tantek>
and moving offices often has *nothing* to do with your job
- [15:33:00] <tantek>
and is not something people normally publish in their resume
- [15:33:02] <mkaply>
is that invalid?
- [15:33:20] <tantek>
thus the precise "location" of a job experience is not really that important
- [15:33:29] <tantek>
or certainly, it is not typically published
- [15:33:58] <tantek>
whereas people do publish their business-card-like info within a job experience entry
- [15:34:17] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Aay032.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
- [15:34:17] <tantek>
mkaply, speaking of hResume
- [15:34:50] <tantek>
did you see Erin's email re: Operator/hResume?
- [15:34:57] <mkaply>
yes. That's actually what we're talking about here
- [15:35:00] <mkaply>
He actually uses
- [15:35:01] <tantek>
what is Operator doing with the hResume here: http://erincaton.ca/resume.html
- [15:35:07] <mkaply>
<DIV class="experience vevent vcard">
- [15:35:13] <tantek>
she btw
- [15:35:17] <mkaply>
sorry :)
- [15:35:22] <mkaply>
which violates everything we just talked about :)
- [15:35:22] <tantek>
np
- [15:35:57] <tantek>
as has been pointed out in hcard-faq and hcard-issues, we need to figure out a way of representing gender in hCard for folks that wish to self-publish that info
- [15:36:15] <mkaply>
I could have at least seen the picture on the page :)
- [15:37:59] <mkaply>
so is that valid?
- [15:38:19] <briansuda>
i'd say yes (the class stuff)
- [15:38:37] <mkaply>
can you have two microformats on the same DOM node?
- [15:38:55] <mkaply>
so then tantek's comment about first descendant doesn't hold true in this case
- [15:39:20] <briansuda>
you could also make that an hAtom entry too
- [15:39:30] <tantek>
mkaply, yes, two microformats can use the same DOM node (though obviously it takes some very careful markup)
- [15:39:41] <tantek>
but let's check the spec
- [15:39:44] * Charl (n=Charl@spotter.nmmu.ac.za) Quit ()
- [15:39:47] <tantek>
re: descendant
- [15:39:49] * briansuda looks at the example link
- [15:40:12] <mkaply>
and people wonder why I have trouble parsing this stuff.
- [15:40:37] <tantek>
mkaply: "experience. optional. One or more hcalendar events with the class name 'experience', with an embedded hCard indicating the job title, name of company, address of company etc."
- [15:40:43] <tantek>
note *embedded* hCard
- [15:40:44] <briansuda>
what is the use with Erin's site?
- [15:41:02] <tantek>
that could be more precise, but embedding typically implies *inside*, not *overlayed*
- [15:41:40] <tantek>
that's from http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume
- [15:43:45] <mkaply>
so there was a fix needed to my hresume. To call out the vcard that is a child of experience. But it won't fix her resume obviously
- [15:44:16] <briansuda>
what is wrong with her resume?
- [15:46:32] <mkaply>
<DIV class="experience vevent vcard">
- [15:47:07] <briansuda>
well, there is another issue with her class="include" as well
- [15:48:45] <briansuda>
what is the issue with having that class="experience vevent vcard"? are you trying to associate a vcard to a vevent?
- [15:49:19] <briansuda>
a vevent does knows nothing about positions, etc.
- [15:51:08] <mkaply>
briansuda: we just established that the spec says that the vcard is embedded.
- [15:51:24] <mkaply>
And if the vcard could be either the same as the experience or a child of the experience would be a little painful to parse
- [15:51:29] <mkaply>
ok, a lot painful to parse
- [15:51:38] <briansuda>
but what are you attempting to do?
- [15:52:08] <briansuda>
you only ever extract VCARDS or VEVENTS and the data they share is not relevant of vcard is nested or not
- [15:52:16] <briansuda>
unless you are doing something different?
- [15:52:20] <mfbot>
[[Template:cheatsheet-key]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:cheatsheet-key&diff=0&oldid=15470 * UsxNq5 * (+0)
- [15:52:41] <mfbot>
[[Template:cheatsheet-key]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:cheatsheet-key&diff=0&oldid=15471 * Brian * (+0) Reverted edit of UsxNq5, changed back to last version by ChristopheDucamp
- [15:52:56] <mkaply>
Well, I need a place to look for the vcard first so that I can extract the data. And I would look for it as a child of experience.
- [15:53:09] <mkaply>
I don't grab the data in the vcard, I grab the vcard.
- [15:53:17] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) blocked "User:UsxNq5" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
- [15:53:49] <briansuda>
but what are you trying to do by connecting the vcard to a vevent?
- [15:54:05] <briansuda>
if you want to find the vcard first, then just look for class="vcard"
- [15:54:23] <briansuda>
a vcard is a vcard event if it isn't a child of experience
- [15:54:47] <mkaply>
We're talking about two different things. there is accessing the vcards separately, which I already do.
- [15:54:53] <briansuda>
right
- [15:55:08] <mkaply>
Then there is the second case. Should you be able to go hResume->experience->vcard.title
- [15:55:14] <mkaply>
sorry. Mixed metaphors there
- [15:55:20] <mkaply>
hResume.experience.vcard.title
- [15:55:27] <briansuda>
ok, now i think i understand abit more
- [15:55:43] <mkaply>
the hresume will be a big JS structure. in the end.
- [15:55:52] <briansuda>
but what about how we do fancy GEO stuff
- [15:55:58] <briansuda>
you find an experience
- [15:56:02] <mkaply>
if experience = vcard, then it is hResume.experience.title
- [15:56:08] <briansuda>
look for a child of class="title"
- [15:56:22] <briansuda>
then look UP the stack to see if that is a child of class="vcard"
- [15:56:40] <briansuda>
parts of the vCard ARE embedded in the experience
- [15:56:53] <mkaply>
but they should be embedded as children of a vcard, correct?
- [15:56:55] <briansuda>
not nessicarily the WHOLE vcard, but part of it
- [15:57:13] <mkaply>
That seems to be why Erin chose to make vcard and vevent the same thing. Because it seemed to her that they share data
- [15:57:17] <briansuda>
yes, class="title" MUST be a child of class="vcard"
- [15:57:24] <briansuda>
to me as well
- [15:57:49] <briansuda>
i would even say that you could have vcard ABOVE class="vevent experience" and still be valid
- [15:58:05] <briansuda>
we do something similar with GEO (stand alone)
- [15:58:36] <briansuda>
it looks-up to see if it is a child of vcard/vevent and then goes down the DOM to find FN/SUMMARY
- [15:59:03] <briansuda>
so you could do class="experience vevent" => class="title" (then look for parent of class="vcard")
- [15:59:16] <briansuda>
if true, then use that value
- [15:59:56] <briansuda>
this could be a VERY sneaky way to avoid using the include pattern
- [16:00:05] <briansuda>
ONE single vCard that is the whole page
- [16:00:18] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-brainstorming-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=15472 * Yp1Hsu * (-41736)
- [16:00:20] <briansuda>
then multiple vcard positions for each experience
- [16:00:33] <briansuda>
then as a vCard extractor you'd only get one vcard
- [16:00:48] <briansuda>
but as an hResume parser, you could get one vcard, but multiple positions
- [16:00:54] <briansuda>
does that make sense?
- [16:01:04] <mkaply>
briansuda: Then you can write that hResume parser :)
- [16:01:16] <briansuda>
(and people are so happy to push things past draft!)
- [16:01:18] <mkaply>
You know one of the complaints about microformats is there is no consistent way to parse them.
- [16:01:24] <mkaply>
Stuff like this doesn't really help the cause :)
- [16:01:32] <briansuda>
i did start to write an hResume parser for HTML=>PDF
- [16:01:53] <briansuda>
no you are right, microformats should be easy to write, but all the hardwork is on the parsers
- [16:02:09] <mkaply>
but you can't make them so easy to write that the parsers are impossible.
- [16:02:16] <mkaply>
I can write an RDFa parser in 50 liens
- [16:03:06] <briansuda>
but how many people can write RDFa into their HTML
- [16:03:07] <briansuda>
:)
- [16:03:59] * briansuda gets strange results with that last WIKI update?
- [16:04:10] <briansuda>
http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=15472 doesn't seem to work
- [16:06:34] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-brainstorming-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=15473 * Brian * (+41736)
- [16:07:20] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) blocked "User:Yp1Hsu" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
- [16:08:48] * kt (n=keigo@b135230.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
- [16:09:13] <mkaply>
intersting
- [16:09:13] <mkaply>
<ABBR title="" class="dtend"/>
- [16:09:20] <mkaply>
I don't like that
- [16:10:15] <briansuda>
that gets stripped out by TIDY as well
- [16:12:22] <mkaply>
So to be clear, all I'm changing at this point is that operator will look for a vcard that is a child of experience (this is based on the hresume spec)
- [16:12:43] <mkaply>
And someone should tell Erin that her vcard needs to be a child of her experience (at least for now)
- [16:13:00] <mkaply>
briansuda: do you genuinely believe in the future that all this stuff will continue to be written by hand?
- [16:13:21] <briansuda>
no
- [16:13:44] <briansuda>
i was talking to some smart folks over the weekend and we were chatting about interfaces to mark-up data as microformats
- [16:14:10] <briansuda>
you highlight text, right click, tell the editor what it is "FN, ORG, ...." and it does all the code behind the senses
- [16:14:15] <mkaply>
If the only complaint about RDFa is "it looks like crap and noone will ever code that in their HTML", that's not a very good argument :)
- [16:14:50] <briansuda>
well, it has some depenances of @role which fix it to versions or invalid HTML
- [16:14:58] <briansuda>
Go GRDDL!
- [16:16:33] <mkaply>
and microformats use an attribute that was intended for presentation to express semantic info. Six of one, half dozen of the other :)
- [16:16:53] <briansuda>
well, not really class is a general purpose attribute according to the W3C HTML spec
- [16:17:01] <briansuda>
it is not an abuse to use class
- [16:17:04] <mkaply>
briansuda: so I've been taking a poll. I need a word that describes microformats, rdfA, eRDF in one mouthful
- [16:17:22] <briansuda>
semantics
- [16:17:39] <mkaply>
so far, we've got "metadata" and "embedded data" and "embedded structure"
- [16:18:13] <mkaply>
Yeah, I like semantic. I can come up with a real cool operator tagline. The symantec web...NOW!
- [16:18:30] <mkaply>
sorry, semantic. Symantec web would be a web owned by an antivirus vendor
- [16:18:46] <briansuda>
:)
- [16:19:04] <briansuda>
Operator, extracting MEANING from the web
- [16:28:51] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit ()
- [16:28:52] <mfbot>
[[media-info-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=15474 * NickNassar * (+5332) Nick Nassar's rant
- [16:29:55] <csarven>
mkaply you are the author of Operator correct?
- [16:29:58] <csarven>
iirc
- [16:30:53] * briansuda (n=briansud@bokd112.rhi.hi.is) Quit ()
- [16:31:07] <csarven>
is there a known bug for 'tag' values that contain '/' in Operator?
- [16:31:14] <mkaply>
csarven: yes
- [16:32:08] <mfbot>
[[faq-ja]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq-ja&diff=0&oldid=15475 * BxrT23 * (-7306)
- [16:35:34] * bear__ is now known as bear
- [16:37:14] * blakestar (n=blakesta@cpe-76-185-114-3.tx.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
- [16:38:53] <mkaply>
csarven: that was for the operator question
- [16:38:57] <mkaply>
tag values - give me an example
- [16:39:03] <mkaply>
tag values can't really contain a slash, can tghey?
- [16:41:14] <csarven>
i haven't looked it up to be honesty - just a quick observation i noted.. on a page with several tags (where one tag contained a slash) Operator only displayed one tag
- [16:43:19] <mkaply>
I would need an example page
- [16:44:02] * mattis^ (n=mattis^@p54BD6012.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #microformats
- [16:48:35] <csarven>
mkaply http://www.csarven.ca/soliloquy-of-the-solipsist-by-sylvia-plath .. i think in 0.7a it picksup the tag after the slash. the one with a single tag that occured may have been in 0.6 (on a different site)
- [16:49:15] <csarven>
my bad.. this hapens in 0.6
- [16:49:36] <csarven>
meh.. would have to verify this later why this other page displayed only a single tag
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- [17:03:00] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
- [17:03:55] <mfbot>
[[code-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=code-examples&diff=0&oldid=15476 * Lv9Pxv * (-3770)
- [17:08:27] <mfbot>
[[faq-ja]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq-ja&diff=0&oldid=15477 * RyanKing * (+7306) Reverted edit of BxrT23, changed back to last version by IwaiMasaharu
- [17:09:05] <kingryan>
ok, I think I may have finally gotten these guys blocked at the apache level
- [17:09:33] <mfbot>
[[code-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=code-examples&diff=0&oldid=15478 * RyanKing * (+3770) Reverted edit of Lv9Pxv, changed back to last version by AndyMabbett
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- [17:19:57] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [17:19:57] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [17:24:09] <mfbot>
[[User:TimG]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:TimG&diff=0&oldid=15479 * UblB9r * (-4)
- [17:24:25] <mfbot>
[[User:TimG]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:TimG&diff=0&oldid=15480 * RyanKing * (+4) Reverted edit of UblB9r, changed back to last version by Tantek
- [17:24:29] <kingryan>
damnit
- [17:24:40] <kingryan>
anyone familiar with apache's mod_access?
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- [17:57:33] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-issues-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=15481 * Nu9N0r * (-6529)
- [18:03:14] <mkaply>
wow. All of a sudden I helped invent microformats! :)
- [18:03:14] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-issues-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=15482 * Tantek * (+6529) Reverted edit of Nu9N0r, changed back to last version by ChristopheDucamp
- [18:03:15] <mkaply>
http://www.45royale.com/notebook/2007/04/10-things-i-learned-at-sxswi-2007/
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- [18:03:19] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
- [18:03:30] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:Nu9N0r" with an expiry time of infinite: bot spam/vandal
- [18:14:46] <kingryan>
mkaply: congrats!
- [18:15:17] * mkaply goes to update the Wikipedia entry
- [18:15:56] <mkaply>
kingryan: ok, you're as good a person to ask as any. I'm trying to determine if a feature in Operator is a "geek" feature
- [18:16:13] <mkaply>
not implying anything about you, just that you are of a microformats persuasion
- [18:17:02] <mkaply>
Showing the number of microformats on the page in parenthesis after the item. vs. simply enabling/disabling
- [18:17:51] <kingryan>
what do you mean by "simply enabling/disabling"?
- [18:18:18] <mkaply>
kingryan: well, right now if there are no microformats, the button is disabled and it does not have (0) after it for isntance.
- [18:18:26] <mkaply>
When I find microformats, I enable it and put (?)
- [18:18:43] <kingryan>
ah
- [18:18:51] <kingryan>
the current behavior is useful to me
- [18:18:56] <mkaply>
I've changed it so the icons now properly enable/disable
- [18:19:07] <mkaply>
The problem with it is that the toolbar shifts big time which is kind of jarring
- [18:19:16] <mkaply>
I'm wondering if a regular user cares about the numbers
- [18:19:20] <mkaply>
or should I make that a debug option
- [18:19:32] <mkaply>
or maybe only display the numbers when you are in microformats mode, not "action mode"
- [18:19:42] <mkaply>
(We've determined action mode is for non microformat folk)
- [18:23:21] <kingryan>
why not just add some empty space between icons so that they don't shift?
- [18:23:32] <kingryan>
I think the numbers are useful
- [18:23:37] <kingryan>
but that's just me
- [18:23:49] <kingryan>
btw, I use mfs mode, not action mode
- [18:25:51] <mkaply>
yeah. So do I.
- [18:26:07] <mkaply>
All the microformats folk use microformats mode. They care about the data, not what to do with the data
- [18:27:00] <kingryan>
yeah, I already have ways to deal with the data via bookmarklets
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- [19:25:50] <ianloic>
I'm kind of scared of joining uf-new - is my fear unjustified?
- [19:28:39] <ianloic>
grr - I totally have to
- [19:28:47] <ianloic>
this whole month's discussion is about stuff I care about
- [19:28:48] <ianloic>
fuck
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- [19:30:02] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [19:30:10] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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- [19:49:25] <mfbot>
[[media-info-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=15483 * NickNassar * (+1222) updates to my rant
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- [21:03:09] <mfbot>
[[irc-people]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=15484 * WebOrganics * (+43)
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- [21:34:46] <mfbot>
[[audio-info-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=15485 * AlexandreVandeSande * (+2502) Music Podcasting -
- [21:35:07] <mfbot>
[[audio-info-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=15486 * AlexandreVandeSande * (-299) Music Podcasting -
- [21:35:43] <mfbot>
[[audio-info-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=15487 * AlexandreVandeSande * (-12) Music Podcasting -
- [21:36:49] <mfbot>
[[audio-info-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=15488 * AlexandreVandeSande * (+57) Authors - Alexandre van de Sande
- [21:38:10] <mfbot>
[[audio-info-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=15489 * AlexandreVandeSande * (+148) Music Podcasting -
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- [21:47:55] <jibot>
ddfreyne is nothing
- [21:48:46] <ddfreyne>
Have there been proposal for an interview microformat? i.e. a question/answer style dialogue microformat?
- [21:49:37] <mfbot>
[[audio-info-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=15490 * AlexandreVandeSande * (+620) Individual Publishing of Speech -
- [21:52:58] * ianbicking|mtg is now known as ianbicking
- [21:57:04] <KevinMarks>
ddfreyne: there are examples for marking up conversations
- [21:57:26] <KevinMarks>
http://microformats.org/wiki/chat-examples#Reported_Speech
- [21:57:28] <KevinMarks>
for eg
- [21:57:49] <KevinMarks>
not quite a microformat as it's all existing elements
- [21:57:51] <ddfreyne>
I noticed a chatlog microformat, but interviews are quite different
- [21:58:03] <KevinMarks>
how so?
- [21:58:27] <KevinMarks>
http://yptsupport.blogspot.com/2006/05/ken-yeager-asks-albert-balagso-about.html
- [21:58:30] <ddfreyne>
chatlogs are more like arbitrary messages, without clear distinction between question and answer…
- [21:58:36] <ddfreyne>
interviews are more question-answer pairs
- [21:58:59] <ddfreyne>
I'm thinking… <ol> for chat logs, <dl> for interviews
- [21:59:05] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-9e5cb5ab502ac579) Quit ("Leaving")
- [21:59:06] <KevinMarks>
nah
- [21:59:23] <KevinMarks>
abusing dl like that is not good
- [21:59:41] <KevinMarks>
you could use the <li><cite><q> pattern
- [21:59:53] <KevinMarks>
and have a class on the q for question and answer
- [22:00:12] <ddfreyne>
I was using something like <dt>Interviewer: <q cite="Interviewer">Question?</q></dt>
- [22:00:17] <KevinMarks>
which would let you style them differently
- [22:00:22] <kingryan>
ddfreyne: do interviews all consist of Q/A pairs?
- [22:00:30] <KevinMarks>
but that isn't a definition
- [22:00:47] <ddfreyne>
kingryan: I'd say all of them do
- [22:00:56] <KevinMarks>
not really
- [22:01:16] <ddfreyne>
Hm, alright… dl is out
- [22:01:23] <kingryan>
ddfreyne: I disagree. interviewers can make statements too
- [22:01:35] <ddfreyne>
kingryan: true.
- [22:01:43] <kingryan>
if you're interested in an interview microformat, I'd suggest looking at the chat and conversation stuff first.
- [22:01:57] <ddfreyne>
A question can have multiple answers, and a answer can have multiple question anyway
- [22:01:58] <KevinMarks>
yes
- [22:02:15] <KevinMarks>
class="question" and class="answer" would be fine
- [22:02:23] <ddfreyne>
kingryan: I've been following them, but I don't agree with everything
- [22:02:38] <ddfreyne>
KevinMarks: agreed… that was what I had initially, in fact
- [22:02:39] <KevinMarks>
then you can readily style it like common layouts (q's in bold, responses in plain)
- [22:02:41] <kingryan>
ddfreyne: "not agreeing with everything" is not a good reason to propose a new format
- [22:02:59] <ddfreyne>
kingryan: of course not… I'm merely building on what exists already
- [22:03:07] <KevinMarks>
also that isn't a format yet
- [22:03:16] <ddfreyne>
kingryan: the chat log microformat still is a work in progress anyway
- [22:03:23] <KevinMarks>
mark yours up and add to http://microformats.org/wiki/chat-examples
- [22:03:29] <ddfreyne>
will do
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- [22:20:59] <mfbot>
[[picoformats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats-fr&diff=0&oldid=15491 * EbzMgk * (+0)
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- [22:26:20] <mfbot>
[[picoformats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats-fr&diff=0&oldid=15492 * RyanKing * (+0) Reverted edit of EbzMgk, changed back to last version by ChristopheDucamp
- [22:28:21] <kingryan>
damn the spammers are moving IP addresses
- [22:28:32] <kingryan>
they just moved from the carribean to somewhere in asia
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- [22:41:45] <ddfreyne>
I didn't know spammers had enough money for plane tickets. :)
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- [23:14:09] <ianloic>
if only they'd attach class="spam" to their posts...
- [23:24:38] <ddfreyne>
yeah, we so need a microformat for spam indeed
- [23:25:03] * ddfreyne gets some sleep, g'night
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- [23:35:40] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
- [23:36:20] * mkaply (n=mkaply@user-12lml8q.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #microformats
- [23:36:20] <jibot>
mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
- [23:36:36] <mkaply>
kingryan: ping
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- [23:39:17] <kingryan>
mkaply: pong
- [23:39:35] <mkaply>
kingryan: were you around earlier for the hresume discussion? It's all a blur
- [23:39:43] <kingryan>
don't think so
- [23:39:57] <mkaply>
kingryan: do you have allsopp's book handy?
- [23:40:34] <kingryan>
no, it's at home, I'm at the office. I'll see if tantek's is around
- [23:41:12] <tantek>
same answer
- [23:42:17] <mkaply>
I wanted people to see the example on page 217
- [23:42:25] <mkaply>
of how confusing an experience with two vcards in it is
- [23:42:43] <mkaply>
He doesn't say it is confusing, but when you look at it, it is a problem.
- [23:42:59] <mkaply>
There's no way to distinguish between the vcard of the individual and the vcard of the organization
- [23:43:55] <tantek>
mkaply, perhaps you should create a microformats-book-issues page on the wiki
- [23:46:01] <pnhChris>
hmmm
- [23:46:26] <pnhChris>
i didn't get to page 217 yet.. looking ahead would be like cheating ;)
- [23:46:47] <tantek>
and link to it from http://microformats.org/wiki/books entry for the book
- [23:47:37] <mkaply>
I'm still on my eariler question of how to distinguish different vcards in the experience. Incidentally, I realized why you can't have the experience be a vcard...
- [23:47:55] <mkaply>
because then if the location for the experience vevent was a vcard, you'd have a vcard nested inside a vcard.
- [23:49:47] <KevinMarks>
is this the authortative hcard problem again?
- [23:50:28] <mkaply>
KevinMarks: no, this a little different. Currently in hresume, the vcard of the "experience" is simply the vcard in the experience.
- [23:50:36] <mkaply>
It doesn't have a unique classname (like contact for instance)
- [23:50:57] <mkaply>
So there is no way to know which vcard in the experience is the vcard of the experience, vs. vcard of the company. vs vcard of the location of the company in the vevent
- [23:51:33] <pnhChris>
hmmm the book site doesn't have the downloadable hresume example
- [23:54:19] <tantek>
mkaply, strictly speaking you could distinguish based on fn==org or not
- [23:55:25] <mkaply>
unless the person worked for an individual :)
- [23:57:01] <mkaply>
I'm still going to argue that there should be a classname for the vcard. In the same way we don't say "all vevents in the resume are experience" without labeling them experience
- [23:58:24] <mkaply>
ah well. not the time for this dicussion. Jericho is on :)
- [23:59:34] <pnhChris>
quick scan of the page.. for those without the book... http://placenamehere.com/temp/ufbook_experience.pdf
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