IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-07-02
Timestamps are in UTC.
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[[xfolk-kottke]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk-kottke&diff=0&oldid=18080 * HkvMz9 * (-2545)
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- [01:03:26] <mfbot>
[[xfolk-kottke]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk-kottke&diff=0&oldid=18081 * Brian * (+2545) Reverted edit of HkvMz9, changed back to last version by Tantek
- [01:03:49] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) blocked "User:HkvMz9" with an expiry time of infinite: spam/damage
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- [09:06:23] <mfbot>
[[podcasts-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=podcasts-fr&diff=0&oldid=18082 * BwkYed * (-5438)
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- [09:34:50] <mfbot>
[[podcasts-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=podcasts-fr&diff=0&oldid=18083 * ChristopheDucamp * (+5438) reverted vandalism BwkYed ... back to Tantek's version
- [09:43:37] <mfbot>
[[podcasts-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=podcasts-fr&diff=0&oldid=18084 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1005) [fr: sync'd with podcasts]
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[[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=18085 * AndyMabbett * (+468) Questions - Comment on WikiSpecies
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- [13:38:49] <DanC>
I'm speaking to an XML audience about microformats; anybody have pointers to "why not just use XML?" stuff about microformats?
- [13:40:24] <DanC>
#1 google hit for "microformats XML" is microformats.org
- [13:40:32] <DanC>
maybe rohit has some stuff about it...
- [13:41:20] <DanC>
hmm... "XOXO is far more inscrutable and harder to process than almost any XML you might design to replace it. XML was," -- http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-think39.html
- [13:41:56] <trovster>
XML is more about storage, or if used on the web is often forgotten about.
- [13:42:25] <trovster>
XML, as content for the web, is a) usually duplicate for HTML b) not seen as often as HTML therefore is forgotten about / goes out of date.
- [13:43:45] <DanC>
"Adding this feed link is much simpler than jumping through the various hoops of hAtom. Any Weblog software likely to support hAtom is even more likely to support pure Atom. The linked Atom file will be indexed by most search engines as diligently as the page itself." -- ibid. I wonder about that latter claim.
- [13:46:13] <trovster>
Our sites Atom feeds are indexed. But why duplicate content if you don't have to (btw, I still use separate feeds). YOU can link to YOUR page via a service which converts to Atom from hAtom
- [13:47:04] <trovster>
That means you do not have to rely upon any software to support hAtom per-se.
- [13:47:22] <trovster>
And I do not see what it was to do with "weblog software" more about feed-readers.
- [13:47:32] <DanC>
yeah; fallback and partial understanding are the biggest reasons to use HTML-based microformats
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- [13:48:54] <DanC>
that and the fact that adding a few attributes to your HTML often a much lower impact on the overall workflow than switching to XML. (e.g. for db-backed websites, wikipedia, etc.)
- [13:49:19] <DanC>
i.e. switching to an XML vocabulary that isn't based on HTML
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- [14:14:20] <mfbot>
[[accessibility-issues-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/accessibility-issues-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+7779)
- [14:14:52] <BenWard>
Quick question for you all:
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- [14:15:42] <BenWard>
in hReview, can I expect the following to return a rating value of '4':
- [14:16:07] <BenWard>
<span class="rating"><span class="value">4</span> out of 5</span>
- [14:25:19] * DanC tests it...
- [14:26:23] <DanC>
hreview2rdfxml.xsl comes up empty. oh... I didn't put an hreview class around it...
- [14:27:40] <DanC>
hmm... hreview docs are harder to find from microformats.org than I'd expect...
- [14:29:43] <DanC>
ah... when I give the relevant summary/item scaffolding, yes, I get: <review:rating rdf:datatype="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#integer">4</review:rating>
- [14:30:55] <DanC>
and indeed, the hreview test 02-spec-2.html seems to use the value idiom
- [14:31:42] <DanC>
http://hg.microformats.org/tests?f=bedf96785d3d;file=hreview/02-spec-2.html;style=gitweb
- [14:32:20] <DanC>
22 <li class="rating"><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food" rel="tag">
- [14:32:20] <DanC>
23 Food: <span class="value">18</span>/<span class="best">30</span></a>;</li>
- [14:32:45] * DanC wonders if that answers BenWard's question
- [14:35:32] <BenWard>
That does :) Thank you very much DanC
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- [15:06:58] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-issues-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=18086 * ChristopheDucamp * (+3444) page to be sync'd with original - in progress
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- [16:23:12] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) blocked "User:BwkYed" with an expiry time of infinite: spam/damage
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- [17:05:04] <briansuda>
anyone around? i have been tweaking planetmicroformats.com so it is easier to get information
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- [17:05:25] <briansuda>
http://planetmicroformats.com/microformats/ open for suggestions and improvements
- [17:06:14] <trovster>
briansuda: Don't suppose you have a tutorial handy for getting a local hatom->atom service running?
- [17:06:50] <briansuda>
hm...
- [17:07:30] <briansuda>
http://lukearno.com/projects/hatom2atom/ is the script and code, you could use mod_rewrite to hide the url and/or cache the results locally
- [17:08:04] <trovster>
I have the .xsl script, not sure what I have to do with tbh!
- [17:08:26] <trovster>
Need to write a PHP script, dom-functions to parse the page/xsl and output the atom?
- [17:09:47] <briansuda>
there is an old script in the hg repos, let me find it
- [17:10:27] <briansuda>
http://hg.microformats.org/x2v?f=d9db8f0c3bf8;file=get-vcard.php;style=gitweb
- [17:10:28] <briansuda>
that should get you started
- [17:12:27] <trovster>
OK, a lot to trim out, but thanks a lot
- [17:12:32] <briansuda>
not a prob
- [17:12:42] <trovster>
btw, you're missing a trick on the 'changelog' ;)
- [17:12:44] <briansuda>
you will need to check you have the libs in stalled
- [17:13:08] <trovster>
btw, how can I get the plain text version of this?!
- [17:14:36] <briansuda>
RAW
- [17:14:41] <briansuda>
http://hg.microformats.org/x2v?cmd=file;file=get-vcard.php;filenode=d9db8f0c3bf8071495a6b18b3c2a2b852333b4ee;style=raw
- [17:14:53] <trovster>
Awesome, thanks
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- [18:39:56] <ddfreyne>
Has anyone thought about adding microformat parsing support to Sparkle?
- [18:40:31] <ddfreyne>
I'm adding a microformat parser to Sparkle now, but I'd like to know whether this has been discussed yet
- [18:40:40] <ddfreyne>
(and whether there's a similar project under way already, perhaps)
- [18:42:08] <InsomniaCity>
Sparkle?
- [18:42:30] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@last.fm/staff/wurstkind) Quit ("Schönen Tag noch!")
- [18:42:57] <ddfreyne>
application update framework, which uses RSS feeds ("appcasts") to update applications
- [18:43:16] <ddfreyne>
http://sparkle.andymatuschak.org/
- [18:43:50] <bewest>
ah, cocoa only?
- [18:43:52] <bewest>
:-(
- [18:44:07] <ddfreyne>
yes…
- [18:44:16] <ddfreyne>
doesn't everyone use cocoa? ;)
- [18:44:34] * kingryan prefers carbon :)
- [18:44:56] <bewest>
you have a list of similar software and the platforms they support?
- [18:45:10] <ddfreyne>
So anyway… I think that adding µf support to sparkle should be easy… but there's a few problems
- [18:45:15] <ddfreyne>
bewest: I only know about sparkle
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- [18:45:53] <ddfreyne>
One problem… sparkle assumes that one page is one feed… but a HTML document can contain *multiple* hfeeds
- [18:46:41] <ddfreyne>
And there's no way to figure out which hfeed should be used for updating the app.
- [18:46:49] <bewest>
can't a feed have more than one channel though?
- [18:46:56] <bewest>
or is that an ATOM only thing?
- [18:46:58] <ddfreyne>
what's a channel?
- [18:47:49] <ddfreyne>
it's definitely not part of hatom :)
- [18:48:04] <InsomniaCity>
heh, Sparkle is cool
- [18:48:08] <InsomniaCity>
but, meh, Cocoa
- [18:48:12] <ddfreyne>
InsomniaCity: it definitely is
- [18:48:24] * InsomniaCity pats his Linux box
- [18:48:33] <ddfreyne>
Meh, Cocoa, as in… meh, mac-only?
- [18:48:50] <InsomniaCity>
yup
- [18:49:28] <bewest>
ddfreyne: I suggest you use a classname of your own devising :-0
- [18:49:45] <bewest>
ddfreyne: and include it in your documentation
- [18:50:06] <ddfreyne>
bewest: that partially solves the issue… what if a HTML page contains multiple appcast? :)
- [18:50:27] <bewest>
use an ID
- [18:50:38] <bewest>
that's an addressing problem
- [18:50:40] <ddfreyne>
Sparkle needs to be able to figure out which appcast it should use
- [18:50:52] <ddfreyne>
Meh… not important… I'll just ignore that for now
- [18:50:54] <bewest>
/hatom/software/updates/#myprogram
- [18:51:27] <bewest>
also, you can use category/rel-tag
- [18:51:46] <ddfreyne>
won't be possible unless I change sparkle's inner workings
- [18:52:13] <ddfreyne>
I'd rather simply replace the RSS functionality with hAtom functionality
- [18:54:24] <ddfreyne>
I'll just need some custom class names for marking up the MD5 sum and DSA signature
- [18:54:33] <ddfreyne>
but class names are free. :P
- [18:56:36] * ddfreyne wishes Sparkle weren't so RSS-oriented
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- [21:27:29] <mfbot>
[[textmarks-syntax-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=textmarks-syntax-fr&diff=0&oldid=18087 * Ge4Uzg * (-3358)
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