IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-07-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  20. [01:38:14] <mfbot> [[textmarks-syntax-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=textmarks-syntax-fr&diff=0&oldid=18088 * ChristopheDucamp * (+3358) rv Ge4Uzg's edit (vandalism) back to last version
  21. [01:40:15] <mfbot> [[textmarks-syntax-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=textmarks-syntax-fr&diff=0&oldid=18089 * ChristopheDucamp * (+49)
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  40. [04:20:09] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  48. [06:00:11] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  50. [06:09:14] * Charl (n=charlvn@c1-116-5.wblv.isadsl.co.za) has joined #microformats
  51. [06:09:14] <jibot> Charl is Charl van Niekerk and writes about standards at http://standards.za.net/
  52. [06:09:18] * bengee (n=bengee@ip203.209.reserved.ish.de) has joined #microformats
  53. [06:09:18] <jibot> bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
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  66. [07:26:49] * KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@c-76-102-254-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  67. [07:26:49] <jibot> KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs
  68. [07:37:45] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:Ge4Uzg" with an expiry time of infinite: vandalism
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  70. [07:58:37] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  71. [07:58:37] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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  75. [08:41:03] <jibot> ddfreyne is Denis Defreyne and blogs at http://stoneship.org/
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  77. [08:49:43] <jibot> BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk ( 0000/ 0100 GMT)
  78. [09:05:09] * KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@c-76-102-254-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ("rebooting thanks to iTunes")
  79. [09:06:06] * ichigo (n=ichigo@v243-184.vps.tuwien.ac.at) has joined #microformats
  80. [09:06:06] <jibot> ichigo is Thomas Schranz, developer of http://footag.com, journal at http://suitcase.at
  81. [09:08:33] * cbarrett (n=cbarrett@c-67-169-24-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  82. [09:08:33] <jibot> cbarrett is Colin Barrett and an Adium developer and a Mozilla developer and has green hair
  83. [09:08:46] * JMulder (n=me@ip4da10ac9.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #microformats
  84. [09:08:51] <cbarrett> ddfreyne: I was just going to ask here, but i see you're already in here :p
  85. [09:09:06] <cbarrett> Anyway
  86. [09:09:22] <cbarrett> I'm fairly sure I saw someone post an hAtom parser to the uf list a while ago
  87. [09:09:44] <cbarrett> anyone else remember that?
  88. [09:11:19] <cbarrett> oh wow, it's 2am
  89. [09:11:20] <cbarrett> hmm
  90. [09:16:20] <ddfreyne> rel-enclosure also doesn't have a way of adding extra metadata to an enclosure… i.e. its MD5 sum
  91. [09:17:04] <ddfreyne> hm.
  92. [09:17:26] <ddfreyne> and that JS hAtom parser… i can't find anything on the list either
  93. [09:19:12] * swerdna_ (n=jandrews@85.189.55.228) has joined #microformats
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  96. [09:21:10] <jibot> swerdna is James Andrews and can be found online at http://jamesandre.ws
  97. [09:23:34] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@hq.last.fm) has joined #microformats
  98. [09:23:34] <jibot> julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
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  100. [09:31:35] * KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@c-76-102-254-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  101. [09:31:35] <jibot> KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs
  102. [09:32:45] <trovster> cbarrett, ddfreyne: I don't know anything of a JS hAtom parser, but there is the XSLT version
  103. [09:37:06] <ddfreyne> I'm avoiding the XSLT one because HTML simply isn't XML
  104. [09:46:25] * dantekgeek (n=dan_luri@c-75-71-25-178.hsd1.co.comcast.net) Quit ()
  105. [10:00:22] <cbarrett> trovster: hm
  106. [10:00:33] <cbarrett> trovster: shouldn't be that hard to parse, really.
  107. [10:00:58] <trovster> Pardon?
  108. [10:01:07] <cbarrett> hatom
  109. [10:01:14] <cbarrett> Shouldn't be that hard to parse.
  110. [10:01:20] <ddfreyne> I also need to parse more than just hAtom… hAtom with a few extensions for sparkle
  111. [10:01:21] <trovster> Yeh... I mentioned the XSLT version..
  112. [10:01:38] <cbarrett> right, XSLT won't work because it's HTML, not XHTML
  113. [10:01:58] <cbarrett> XSLT and tag soup don't play well ;)
  114. [10:02:18] <ddfreyne> and treating HTML as XML is evil :>
  115. [10:02:37] <cbarrett> says the guy who was using private APIs ;)
  116. [10:03:31] <ddfreyne> that was an accident!
  117. [10:03:42] <ddfreyne> I slipped, and…
  118. [10:03:50] <trovster> Meh, I'm /not/ getting in to THIS arguement. Please. You assume I don't know the difference between XHTML/XHTML.
  119. [10:04:41] <trovster> OR, XHTML and HTML even!
  120. [10:04:59] <cbarrett> :P
  121. [10:07:05] <ddfreyne> heh
  122. [10:07:37] <ddfreyne> yeah, arguing about XHTML vs HTML is… pointless
  123. [10:08:17] <ddfreyne> I think I'll just write my own parser. It's not hard, and it's probably better to write my own if I need to parse more than just hAtom
  124. [10:13:59] <ddfreyne> have to go…
  125. [10:14:09] <ddfreyne> my clock jumped from 12:10 to 12:14… very odd
  126. [10:14:10] <ddfreyne> seeya
  127. [10:14:12] * ddfreyne (n=ddfreyne@unaffiliated/ddfreyne) Quit ("kthxbai")
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  131. [10:26:07] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  132. [10:26:07] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  139. [11:32:02] <mfbot> [[resume-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-formats&diff=0&oldid=18090 * MVanCoillie * (-1) HR-XML -
  140. [11:33:08] <mfbot> [[resume-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-formats&diff=0&oldid=18091 * MVanCoillie * (+49) HR-XML -
  141. [11:33:39] <mfbot> [[resume-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-formats&diff=0&oldid=18092 * MVanCoillie * (+16)
  142. [11:36:00] <mfbot> [[resume-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-formats&diff=0&oldid=18093 * MVanCoillie * (+132) Europass -
  143. [11:39:06] <mfbot> [[resume-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-formats&diff=0&oldid=18094 * MVanCoillie * (+115) HR-XML -
  144. [11:39:42] <mfbot> [[resume-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-formats&diff=0&oldid=18095 * MVanCoillie * (+19) Contributors -
  145. [11:41:57] <mfbot> [[resume-formats-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-formats-fr&diff=0&oldid=18096 * MVanCoillie * (+19) Contributeurs -
  146. [11:45:38] <mfbot> [[resume-formats-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-formats-fr&diff=0&oldid=18097 * MVanCoillie * (+294) HR-XML -
  147. [11:46:14] <mfbot> [[resume-formats-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-formats-fr&diff=0&oldid=18098 * MVanCoillie * (+0) HR-XML -
  148. [11:48:11] <mfbot> [[resume-formats-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-formats-fr&diff=0&oldid=18099 * MVanCoillie * (+172) Europass -
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  153. [12:21:43] <mfbot> [[mfo-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mfo-examples&diff=0&oldid=18100 * ScottReynen * (+631) Examples - Added BBC Music
  154. [12:22:09] <mfbot> [[mfo-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mfo-examples&diff=0&oldid=18101 * ScottReynen * (+4) Oops - formatting
  155. [12:23:20] <mfbot> [[mfo-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mfo-examples&diff=0&oldid=18102 * ScottReynen * (+0) hCard in hReview - Formatting
  156. [12:23:34] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  158. [12:45:37] <mfbot> [[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=18103 * MichaelTorgler * (+128) Examples in the wild -
  159. [13:01:51] * tommorris (n=tommorri@i-83-67-98-32.freedom2surf.net) has joined #microformats
  160. [13:05:30] <trovster> mmm, hCite isn't for testimonials and such?
  161. [13:17:23] <tommorris> My microformats good deed of the day: http://boagworld.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2351&page=1
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  167. [14:00:56] * cgriego (n=cgriego@216.138.69.206) has joined #microformats
  168. [14:00:56] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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  171. [14:16:54] <jibot> Kilianvalkhof is Kilian Valkhof, he makes websites and blogs at http://kilianvalkhof.com
  172. [14:19:23] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-7e0a709e1fa547d8) has joined #microformats
  173. [14:19:23] <jibot> mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
  174. [14:20:02] * BenWard (i=BenWard@nat/yahoo/x-5be70fe38b7a2d67) Quit ("Fades out again…")
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  180. [14:29:17] * sreynen (n=sreynen@205.169.187.2) has joined #microformats
  181. [14:29:17] * ChanServ sets mode +o sreynen
  182. [14:29:17] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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  186. [14:58:04] <mfbot> [[hatom]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=18104 * AndyMabbett * (+6) Examples in the wild - fmt
  187. [14:59:30] <mfbot> [[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=18105 * AndyMabbett * (+63) Examples in the wild - third person, sp.
  188. [15:12:05] * KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@c-76-102-254-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  189. [15:33:05] * ichigo (n=ichigo@v243-184.vps.tuwien.ac.at) Quit ("taubenvergiften im park …")
  190. [15:36:53] * BenWard (i=BenWard@nat/yahoo/x-be55ed277dc3cc02) Quit ("Fades out again…")
  191. [15:37:13] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181223139.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  192. [15:37:13] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  193. [15:43:47] * sreynen_ (n=sreynen@205.169.187.2) has joined #microformats
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  207. [17:04:04] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-0ec231ed8cb32832) has joined #microformats
  208. [17:04:04] <jibot> KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs
  209. [17:04:14] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host81-132-88-104.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) Quit ("Don't touch /dev/null…")
  210. [17:11:58] * TristanD (n=tristan@AVelizy-151-1-58-219.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #microformats
  211. [17:35:17] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181223139.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
  212. [17:40:53] <mfbot> [[assistive-technology]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=assistive-technology&diff=0&oldid=18106 * Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis * (-218) Release Notes -
  213. [17:41:12] * V-I-P (i=DzDKxmr7@nat-wh-1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) has joined #microformats
  214. [17:41:24] <mfbot> [[book-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=book-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=18107 * HOWCOME * (+338) Adding initial section on figures
  215. [17:43:50] <mfbot> [[book-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=book-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=18108 * HOWCOME * (-10) Figures -
  216. [17:44:31] <mfbot> [[book-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=book-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=18109 * HOWCOME * (+7) Parts of a book -
  217. [17:46:27] <mfbot> [[book-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=book-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=18110 * HOWCOME * (+35) Figures -
  218. [17:47:23] <mfbot> [[book-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=book-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=18111 * HOWCOME * (+16) Figures -
  219. [17:54:55] <mfbot> [[book-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=book-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=18112 * HOWCOME * (+385) Figures -
  220. [18:00:09] * Hagfish_ (n=Ed@80.175.122.69) has joined #microformats
  221. [18:03:26] <mfbot> [[book-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=book-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=18113 * HOWCOME * (+137) Figures -
  222. [18:04:07] <mfbot> [[book-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=book-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=18114 * HOWCOME * (+10) Figures -
  223. [18:11:34] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit ()
  224. [18:16:41] * Ronnos (n=chatzill@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #microformats
  225. [18:16:41] <jibot> Ronnos is Ron Kok, a friendly student Communication and Multimedia Design in The Netherlands
  226. [18:17:00] * nerddeluxe (n=tristan@AVelizy-151-1-17-48.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #microformats
  227. [18:22:45] <mfbot> [[faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=18115 * AndyMabbett * (+183) Microformats and Spam - rewrite to tak account of mailing list comment byPatrick H. Lauke (Jul 2 15:20:06 PDT 2007)
  228. [18:23:08] * TristanD (n=tristan@AVelizy-151-1-58-219.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Connection timed out)
  229. [18:23:33] * julianstahnke_ (n=julianst@hq.last.fm) Quit ("Schönen Tag noch!")
  230. [18:25:20] * nerddeluxe (n=tristan@AVelizy-151-1-17-48.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Client Quit)
  231. [18:26:21] <mfbot> [[faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=18116 * AndyMabbett * (+1) Microformats and Spam - sp.
  232. [18:27:22] * kingryan (n=kingryan@corp.technorati.com) has joined #microformats
  233. [18:27:22] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  234. [18:27:22] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  235. [18:32:26] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) Quit (Connection reset by peer)
  236. [18:35:58] <mfbot> [[faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=18117 * Tantek * (-184) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by ScottReynen
  237. [18:36:23] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host81-132-88-104.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  238. [18:36:23] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
  239. [18:37:12] <gsnedders> ?forgetme
  240. [18:37:12] <jibot> I have expunged gsnedders from my mind
  241. [18:37:34] <mfbot> [[faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=18118 * Tantek * (+1) previous revert was to remove hearsay info stated as fact about Google's practices from someone not employed by Google AFAIK.
  242. [18:43:10] * tantek (n=tantek@corp.technorati.com) has joined #microformats
  243. [18:43:10] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  244. [18:43:10] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  245. [19:00:12] * tantek (n=tantek@corp.technorati.com) Quit ()
  246. [19:18:00] <mfbot> [[WikiNode]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=WikiNode&diff=0&oldid=18119 * Zm0Idx * (+0)
  247. [19:43:29] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-7e0a709e1fa547d8) Quit ("Leaving")
  248. [19:47:36] * bengee (n=bengee@ip203.209.reserved.ish.de) Quit ("Leaving")
  249. [19:57:37] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@cs181170022.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  250. [19:59:35] * Kilianvalkhof (n=Kay@a80-100-213-232.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined #microformats
  251. [19:59:35] <jibot> Kilianvalkhof is Kilian Valkhof, he makes websites and blogs at http://kilianvalkhof.com
  252. [20:04:14] * sreynen_ (n=sreynen@205.169.187.2) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  253. [20:05:08] * sreynen (n=sreynen@205.169.187.2) has joined #microformats
  254. [20:05:08] * ChanServ sets mode +o sreynen
  255. [20:05:08] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
  256. [20:07:59] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-0ec231ed8cb32832) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  257. [20:21:17] * Charl (n=charlvn@c1-116-5.wblv.isadsl.co.za) Quit ("Leaving")
  258. [20:48:03] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-c911ea9fa8809661) has joined #microformats
  259. [20:48:03] <jibot> KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs
  260. [20:48:51] <mfbot> [[uid-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=uid-examples&diff=0&oldid=18120 * LhyAcc * (-2327)
  261. [20:51:32] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=18121 * PaulRoub * (+86) Individuals - added myself as an example
  262. [20:57:49] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@cs181170022.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
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  285. [21:29:05] * amanuel (n=amanuel@integrity.niagara.com) has joined #microformats
  286. [21:29:05] <jibot> amanuel is Amanuel, the social ambassador at http://otavo.com
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  291. [21:36:41] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-2987d34f5000d2a1) has joined #microformats
  292. [21:36:41] <jibot> KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs
  293. [21:41:16] * sreynen (n=sreynen@71-208-120-92.hlrn.qwest.net) has joined #microformats
  294. [21:41:16] * ChanServ sets mode +o sreynen
  295. [21:41:16] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
  296. [21:44:53] * vant (n=vant@p2026-ipbf906marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
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  301. [21:59:21] * tantek (n=tantek@corp.technorati.com) has joined #microformats
  302. [21:59:22] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  303. [21:59:22] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  304. [21:59:51] <mfbot> [[press]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press&diff=0&oldid=18122 * Tantek * (+1123) added CNNMoney.com / Business 2.0 article with quote about microformats
  305. [22:00:27] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-2987d34f5000d2a1) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  306. [22:05:28] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-36-151-200.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  307. [22:05:28] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  308. [22:05:46] * shawn (n=shawn@adsl-70-231-227-173.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) Quit ("Leaving")
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  310. [22:08:33] <mfbot> [[tagspeak-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=tagspeak-examples&diff=0&oldid=18123 * Mj0Pva * (-6174)
  311. [22:08:33] <mfbot> [[press]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press&diff=0&oldid=18124 * Tantek * (-643) added BBC UK article on Bradley Horowitz that discusses microformats
  312. [22:09:45] <mfbot> [[tagspeak-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=tagspeak-examples&diff=0&oldid=18125 * Tantek * (+6174) Reverted edit of Mj0Pva, changed back to last version by Tantek
  313. [22:10:19] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-ea66512c0f090208) has joined #microformats
  314. [22:11:06] <mfbot> [[press]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press&diff=0&oldid=18126 * Tantek * (+2234) oops let me try that again and *add* content not remove
  315. [22:11:48] <tantek> interesting. having spam blocked the keyword "cialis" you will get a warning and be prevented from saving if you attempt to use the word "specialist" which contains that substring.
  316. [22:13:31] * JMulder (n=me@ip4da10ac9.direct-adsl.nl) Quit ()
  317. [22:14:02] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:Mj0Pva" with an expiry time of infinite: vandalism
  318. [22:16:30] <KevinMarks> or socialism
  319. [22:19:48] <kingryan> tantek: I can fix that, I think
  320. [22:19:57] <kingryan> the spam list is a pretty dumb regex
  321. [22:22:18] <mfbot> [[press]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press&diff=0&oldid=18127 * Tantek * (+154) add photo of Informatique article, fix article month per photo inspection
  322. [22:33:13] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106001346fa7d6d.wp.shawcable.net) has joined #microformats
  323. [22:33:13] <jibot> Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
  324. [22:38:20] <mfbot> [[press]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press&diff=0&oldid=18128 * Tantek * (+722) noted some more URLs of microformats press mentions that I don't have time to note and quote right this minute, to be processed.
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  327. [22:44:12] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  328. [22:46:13] * Ronnos (n=chatzill@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) Quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.4/2007051502]")
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These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.

See http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot for more information.