IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-07-19
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [00:45:00] <SignpostMarv>
just popping in to ask if anyone has recommendations for recent microformat-centric podcasts to listen to
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- [00:49:14] <sreynen>
SignpostMarv, have you looked at http://microformats.org/wiki/podcasts ?
- [00:49:56] <SignpostMarv>
yus, theres lots, thats why i was asking for recommendations :-P
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- [01:30:57] <mfbot>
[[advocacy]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=18531 * Tantek * (-2)
- [01:33:54] <mfbot>
[[how-to-play]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=how-to-play&diff=0&oldid=18532 * WilleRaab * (+0) Fixing invalid reference... (I hope. ;-) )
- [01:34:00] <mfbot>
[[advocacy-email-samples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy-email-samples&diff=0&oldid=18533 * Tantek * (+541) added sample email 2
- [01:34:26] <tantek>
nicely done WilleRaab
- [01:35:05] <WilleRaab>
ty. :-D
- [01:36:11] <mfbot>
[[kragen-history-of-markup]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=kragen-history-of-markup&diff=0&oldid=18534 * Tantek * (+27)
- [01:48:53] <WilleRaab>
tantek: is there a lot of discussion on the list, or is IRC the primary place for discussions?
- [01:49:01] <tantek>
IRC is preferred
- [01:49:20] <WilleRaab>
check.
- [01:49:34] <tantek>
the list often gets hard to follow and too noisy
- [01:49:49] <tantek>
i've been doing my best to iterate on mailing-list guidelines to increase the signal-to-noise ratio on the list, but people keep discovering new ways of being noisy ;)
- [01:50:21] <WilleRaab>
hahaha... people are such an annoyance. :)
- [01:50:35] <tantek>
heh. no, they just need guidance. most people have good intentions.
- [01:51:01] <tantek>
though there are always a few that have neutral or bad intentions.
- [01:51:06] <tantek>
or don't realize they are causing harm
- [01:51:25] <WilleRaab>
can't be that common here, though?
- [01:51:30] * SignpostMarv thinx he is one of the latter on a regular basis :-P
- [01:51:47] <tantek>
no it's not that common in the microformats community, which is why i'm fighting hard to keep it out as much as possible
- [01:51:47] <WilleRaab>
yeah, that last thing is of course difficult to handle..
- [01:52:14] <tantek>
most open (source, standards etc.) communities allow far too many "jerks" to hijack conversations and overall lower the tone of conversation
- [01:52:14] <SignpostMarv>
microformats are implemented by geeks. geeks are generally polite and intelligent
- [01:52:19] <tantek>
btw http://microformats.org/wiki/mailing-lists#General_guidelines
- [01:52:44] <tantek>
SignpostMarv, actually, geeks often lack social skills and are thus often awkward at communication
- [01:52:44] <WilleRaab>
SignpostMarv: :)
- [01:52:58] <WilleRaab>
I miss FidoNet. :I
- [01:53:00] <tantek>
but are often very well intentioned and can be taught
- [01:53:28] <tantek>
SignpostMarv, btw, if you question yourself and ask yourself if you are part of the problem, then it is highly likely that you are not part of the problem.
- [01:53:37] <tantek>
introspection/reflection often helps self-correct
- [01:54:03] <WilleRaab>
The largest problem, I think, is that ppl have different views of what's important in a discussion and also don't communicate in quite the same way, and therefore discussions tend to be very unfocused very soon.
- [01:54:04] <tantek>
and demonstrating humility (even in a joking manner as you did above :) ) always helps
- [01:54:05] <SignpostMarv>
tantek, doesn't that generally only apply to face-to-face inte- personal skills and less to digital inter-personal skills ?
- [01:54:36] <tantek>
it applies *more* to f2f interpersonal skills, but certainly still applies to online communication modes as well
- [01:54:45] <WilleRaab>
That is - the largest problem for humanity is that it can communicate. ,-)
- [01:54:56] <tantek>
heh
- [01:55:02] <SignpostMarv>
see articles on Aspergers sufferers thriving in online environments
- [01:55:43] <SignpostMarv>
ah, while your here tantek, I was wondering why your resume doesn't seem to stick to any version of hResume
- [01:57:41] <tantek>
it hasn't been updated since late 2004
- [01:57:49] <tantek>
i haven't had the time to update it
- [02:00:16] <SignpostMarv>
http://hresume.weblogswork.com/hresumecreator/
- [02:00:30] * SignpostMarv pokes tantek in the direction of that :-P
- [02:02:21] <WilleRaab>
SignpostMarv: is that 'creator' able to edit old resumes as well?
- [02:03:10] <SignpostMarv>
old hResume documents ?
- [02:03:24] <WilleRaab>
yeah.
- [02:03:38] <SignpostMarv>
doesn't appear to be, but an enterprising Greasemonkey guru could fix that
- [02:03:58] <SignpostMarv>
e.g. add a text field, then auto-populate the form
- [02:04:46] <SignpostMarv>
when in doubt, roll your own
- [02:04:47] <WilleRaab>
mm yeah. That'd be nice.
- [02:04:52] <WilleRaab>
yeah. ,-)
- [02:05:27] <SignpostMarv>
the advantage to rolling your own would be that you'd be able to have the export feature preserve the imported document's structure
- [02:06:02] <WilleRaab>
Just thinking of how it'd be easiest to get companies to start using hResume... Having easy-to-use free tools would prabbably be a way.
- [02:06:41] <WilleRaab>
Uhm. Dunno the name of the kind of companies I have in mind, in English. *sigh* but companies that link unemployed ppl to other companies that are hiring.
- [02:07:05] <SignpostMarv>
damn, my mind is blank too
- [02:07:08] <SignpostMarv>
ah wait
- [02:07:11] <SignpostMarv>
recruitment agencies
- [02:07:23] <WilleRaab>
(haha, i'm tired (4 in the nnight here) so i�'m probably just thinking stupid things out loud... :)
- [02:07:26] <WilleRaab>
ah, yeah!
- [02:07:43] <mfbot>
[[hresume-authoring]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume-authoring * Tantek * (+1094) drafted
- [02:07:44] <WilleRaab>
There's been a lot of those, web-based, popping up here in Sweden the last couple of years or so.
- [02:08:08] <SignpostMarv>
well the idea with hResume is that you can host your resume on the webs yourself for auto-discovery purposes
- [02:08:19] <SignpostMarv>
e.g. rather than submitting your resume to lots and lots of sites,
- [02:08:41] <SignpostMarv>
the sites just subscribe to hResume indexing services and let them do all the dirty work
- [02:08:52] <WilleRaab>
hm, i see. Yeah.
- [02:09:29] <WilleRaab>
The disadvantage (but now I'm only guessing) would be that companies wish to keep their own records, their own databases etc.
- [02:09:39] <WilleRaab>
Of course, that's doable anyway.
- [02:09:42] <tantek>
SignpostMarv, thanks for the creator link, I've drafted hresume-authoring (see above from mfbot) with that link.
- [02:09:43] <SignpostMarv>
succesful adoption of hResume would of course completely obliterate recruitment website business models
- [02:09:51] <SignpostMarv>
tantek, yw
- [02:10:07] <tantek>
it wouldn't necessarily obliterate them, but rather, encourage them to evolve
- [02:10:14] <SignpostMarv>
model:
- [02:10:17] <tantek>
and those that adapted would survive
- [02:10:22] <WilleRaab>
It'd force them to shift focus. That'd be cool... =)
- [02:10:29] <tantek>
whereas those that didn't, well, not everything survives evolution.
- [02:10:34] <SignpostMarv>
unemployed person uploads resume, business pays to get results
- [02:10:40] <SignpostMarv>
hresume model:
- [02:10:49] <SignpostMarv>
business goes to http://google.com/resume
- [02:10:54] <SignpostMarv>
:P
- [02:11:23] <SignpostMarv>
yes I'm over-generalising a lot, but that's the way things should go
- [02:11:26] <tantek>
those same sites could decide to aggregate hResumes from the web as well
- [02:11:32] <tantek>
there are lots of ways to evolve their models
- [02:11:45] <WilleRaab>
nah, i'd say that the recruitment companies instead have to focus on getting better desciriptions of what's requested from their clients, and to make good matches.
- [02:11:47] <tantek>
LinkedIn knows this. As does SimplyHired for example.
- [02:12:00] <tantek>
it's up to them to decide how to best evolve their business models
- [02:12:02] <WilleRaab>
Instead of, as is now, focus on getting ppl to write their resumes on the companys website.
- [02:12:08] <SignpostMarv>
businesses often don't have the infrastructure to search for and maintaion a database of resumes
- [02:12:09] <tantek>
i do think hResume actually enables more business models
- [02:12:14] <tantek>
even if it obsoletes some old ones
- [02:13:02] <SignpostMarv>
an hResume structure is ideal for the common "About" page on an unemployed professional's blog
- [02:13:10] <tantek>
ok SignpostMarv, I don't have the time to update my resume this second, but I've created a project to do it where I'm jotting down the specific things I need to do to get it done: http://tantek.pbwiki.com/UpdateResume200707
- [02:13:19] * SignpostMarv grumbles at his own incorrect apostrophe usage
- [02:13:24] <tantek>
I'll get to it ;)
- [02:14:00] <tantek>
in the meantime, if you would like to, by all means, add to http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume-authoring
- [02:15:18] <WilleRaab>
tantek: on http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume-authoring there's a [hResume-examples] that doesn't exist, but in the section "Related pages" there's a page named "resume-examples" that does exist. Is that supposed to be the same or is there a new page to be maed?
- [02:15:54] * SignpostMarv is writing Smarty templates from scratch to implement hResume on his current project
- [02:17:53] <tantek>
WilleRaab it could be edited to point to the examples in the wild instead
- [02:17:58] <tantek>
go for it
- [02:18:03] <WilleRaab>
ok. =)
- [02:18:27] <WilleRaab>
(As you can tell i'm a bit cautius w the editing right now.... )
- [02:18:35] * SignpostMarv guesses that {foo#bar} syntax doesn't work to include only a section of an article in another article
- [02:18:46] <tantek>
until we have some inline examples to create an hresume-examples page directly
- [02:18:55] <tantek>
it works to link though
- [02:19:03] <SignpostMarv>
WilleRaab: when in doubt, use both the preview and changes buttons :-)
- [02:19:59] <mfbot>
[[hresume-authoring]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-authoring&diff=0&oldid=18535 * WilleRaab * (-1) Creating a new hResume - link-change hresume-examples to resume-examples
- [02:20:24] <WilleRaab>
SignpostMarv: yeah... :-D
- [02:20:48] <WilleRaab>
... right now microformats is a bit too new for me to comfortably make changes without asking first... =)
- [02:21:14] <WilleRaab>
I'll probably get over with that, if I stick around. :)
- [02:21:32] <tantek>
ah i think you meant hresume-examples-in-wild
- [02:21:45] <tantek>
resume-examples were used as research for the development of hResume
- [02:21:50] <WilleRaab>
uhm, no, sry for being unspecific.
- [02:21:54] <WilleRaab>
Ah. :)
- [02:22:01] <tantek>
they're actually quite different ;)
- [02:22:18] <WilleRaab>
=)
- [02:22:40] <WilleRaab>
"example usage of various classes within hResume." <- felt like a description of what the other was 'bout.
- [02:22:45] <WilleRaab>
*changing*
- [02:22:46] <SignpostMarv>
hrm
- [02:22:49] <SignpostMarv>
i just had a thought
- [02:22:53] * SignpostMarv goes and checks the hresume spec
- [02:23:30] <mfbot>
[[hresume-authoring]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-authoring&diff=0&oldid=18536 * WilleRaab * (+9) Creating a new hResume - changing the link to hresume-examples-in-wild....
- [02:23:40] <WilleRaab>
(btw i love the bot...)
- [02:23:55] <WilleRaab>
Didn't have that on the swedish wikipedia, would've been nice.
- [02:25:16] <SignpostMarv>
tantek: shouldn't hListing be integrated into hResume ?
- [02:26:00] <tantek>
not necessarily
- [02:26:02] <SignpostMarv>
a person's opening statement about themselves in a resume seems to fit the structure of "selling ones' self"
- [02:26:02] <tantek>
hResume simply describes a person
- [02:26:16] <tantek>
hListing describes the semantic of a proposed transaction as it were
- [02:26:20] <SignpostMarv>
http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting-extended-examples#Personal_.2F_Match.com
- [02:26:37] <tantek>
an hResume is not necessarily selling yourself
- [02:26:45] <tantek>
it could just be a static description for reference purposes
- [02:26:50] <SignpostMarv>
it is if you're seeking employment
- [02:26:56] <tantek>
the intent of seeking employment is independent of the job history
- [02:27:22] <SignpostMarv>
the intent of seeking employment could be indicated with an hListing in the hResume though, yes ?
- [02:27:24] <tantek>
you could embed an hListing into the objective statement of an hResume for example
- [02:27:34] <tantek>
heh. yes. :)
- [02:27:48] <tantek>
it's like noun (hResume) vs. verb (hListing)
- [02:29:08] <SignpostMarv>
would it make sense to explicitly state in the spec that "if an hListing structure is found within the hResume document where the lister url is identical to the rel="me" url found in the hResume's hCard, then parsers should indicate this person is actively seeking employment" ?
- [02:29:34] <tantek>
it's an interesting idea - perhaps add it to hresume-brainstorming
- [02:29:44] <tantek>
for consideration/deliberation
- [02:29:54] <tantek>
and of course try it out in the wild with your own resume
- [02:30:28] <SignpostMarv>
on a seperate topic, any chance of the microformats wiki supporting OpenID logins ?
- [02:30:32] * shawn (n=shawn@h46078c1b.area7.spcsdns.net) has joined #microformats
- [02:31:46] <tantek>
SignpostMarv, perhaps add it to the "to-do" list if it isn't already there.
- [02:31:57] <SignpostMarv>
linky ?
- [02:32:00] <tantek>
/wiki/to-do
- [02:33:14] <tantek>
and when you do login, please consider adding the public-domain-release to your user page per http://microformats.org/wiki/Category:public_domain_license
- [02:33:17] <tantek>
thanks much!
- [02:33:20] <tantek>
bbiab
- [02:33:24] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl001-150-252.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
- [02:33:47] <mfbot>
[[User:SignpostMarv]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:SignpostMarv * SignpostMarv * (+25)
- [02:36:23] <mfbot>
[[hresume-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=18537 * SignpostMarv * (+40) Possible Extensions - made structure modification to prep for hListing suggestion
- [02:39:07] * iwaim__ (i=iwai@gateway.alib.jp) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
- [02:43:53] <WilleRaab>
well well, bedtime. cu.
- [02:44:02] <SignpostMarv>
toodles
- [02:47:59] <mfbot>
[[hListing]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/hListing * SignpostMarv * (+22) added redirect prior to commiting hresume extension suggestion edit
- [02:51:11] <mfbot>
[[hresume-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=18538 * SignpostMarv * (+1433) Actively Seeking Employment: using [[hListing]] with [[hResume]] to indicate whether a person is actively seeking employment or not.
- [02:52:20] <SignpostMarv>
that was rather more lengthy than I had planned :-P
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- [06:13:52] <Samir>
hello
- [06:14:27] <Samir>
hello
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- [06:17:06] <mfbot>
[[receipt-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=receipt-examples&diff=0&oldid=18539 * RobManson * (+2682) Added 6 real world example receipt descriptions from my records - says way too much about my spending habits :)
- [06:21:57] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [06:30:31] <SignpostMarv>
hrm
- [06:30:38] <SignpostMarv>
didn't know there was a receipt microformat
- [06:30:46] <nambor>
isn't yet
- [06:31:04] <nambor>
we've just started collecting examples with an aim to build a proposal
- [06:31:09] <SignpostMarv>
cool
- [06:31:10] <nambor>
feel free to join in ;)
- [06:31:15] <SignpostMarv>
I've got lots of receipts archived
- [06:31:20] <nambor>
great
- [06:31:33] <nambor>
i'm just writing up an overview of the general "commerce" space too
- [06:31:40] <SignpostMarv>
from 12 different sites
- [06:31:52] <nambor>
aiming to map how the existing microformats and receipts, etc all fit together
- [06:32:15] <nambor>
"12 different sites" is excellent - that's a good cross section
- [06:34:47] <SignpostMarv>
Asda (groceries), CDWOW, Currys (white goods), DVD.co.uk, Insurance, receipt of complaint sent to Financial Services Ombudsman, Prescription Pre-Payment certificate, play.com, restore.com, skype
- [06:34:56] <SignpostMarv>
two of the arcived receipts seem borked
- [06:35:48] <nambor>
receipt of complain may not really fit into this set of examples - but add it and we can review that in the analysis phase I guess
- [06:36:09] <SignpostMarv>
not sure why i put it in the receipts folder :-P
- [06:36:31] <nambor>
did it get a good result? ombudsmen usually do ;)
- [06:36:37] <SignpostMarv>
oh yus
- [06:37:05] <nambor>
if you have any invoices/bills (e.g. before the payment) then please add them too
- [06:37:07] <SignpostMarv>
same for the Telecomms Ombudsman :-3
- [06:44:06] <SignpostMarv>
hrm
- [06:44:18] <SignpostMarv>
re: examples, would an image suffice so i don't have to sanitize the html ?
- [06:44:28] <SignpostMarv>
ooh, this is interesting
- [06:44:52] <SignpostMarv>
you know the bit on a receipt where they say how muych everything cost- items, shipping, tax etc ?
- [06:44:59] <SignpostMarv>
Skype call it an "Order resume"
- [06:56:21] <mfbot>
[[receipt-example-skype-phone]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/receipt-example-skype-phone * SignpostMarv * (+3132)
- [06:57:52] <mfbot>
[[receipt-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=receipt-examples&diff=0&oldid=18540 * SignpostMarv * (+446) Real-World Examples - added skype phone
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- [07:01:10] <SignpostMarv>
there's actually some relatively semantic class names in skype's source doe
- [07:03:29] <mfbot>
[[orphans]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=orphans&diff=0&oldid=18541 * AndyMabbett * (+19) fixed link (please check "what links here" before moving pages)
- [07:05:15] <mfbot>
[[how-to-play]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=how-to-play&diff=0&oldid=18542 * AndyMabbett * (+108) check "what links here" before moving pages
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- [07:28:09] <nambor>
SignpostMarv: sorry was out for a meeting - yeah I think images are fine
- [07:38:02] <mfbot>
[[receipt-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=receipt-examples&diff=0&oldid=18543 * RobManson * (+39) Added link to wikipedia's Receipt page - some useful distinctions here
- [07:38:25] * SignpostMarv already uploaded the source due to some interesting semi-semanticness
- [07:38:51] <nambor>
;)
- [07:39:04] <SignpostMarv>
http://microformats.org/wiki/receipt-example-skype-phone
- [07:39:21] <SignpostMarv>
one thing i find really odd though
- [07:39:52] <SignpostMarv>
<p><strong>Yourd order has been received....</strong</p> vs <span class="bold">Confirmation of incoming order</span><br>
- [07:40:24] <SignpostMarv>
the order receipt table uses a class of "order-listing"
- [07:41:12] <SignpostMarv>
there's three row classes: row, totals-row and grandtotal-row
- [07:46:56] <nambor>
so row is purchase items (unit price, qty*unit price & tax) - totals-row is sum of each of those columns and grandtotal-row is the final sum (amount payable) - yeah?
- [07:47:33] <nambor>
that's pretty close to the structure within the others I entered
- [07:47:52] <SignpostMarv>
dumb question:
- [07:48:13] <SignpostMarv>
hReceipt would use tables right ?
- [07:48:31] <nambor>
mmm...i don't think that would be a requirement would it?
- [07:49:20] <nambor>
tables are used for presentation in this context and that's really a css issue - unless you mean something else
- [07:50:42] <SignpostMarv>
tables for data
- [07:51:05] <nambor>
could do...but should be a requirement should it?
- [07:51:53] <nambor>
sorry s/should/shouldn't/
- [07:56:12] <SignpostMarv>
okay, hypothetically speaking you could use a div/span or ul/li/span combo, but if the html structure of every real-world example is tabular, should the spec say "use tables" ?
- [07:59:02] <nambor>
i'd pass that on to the old timers around here 8) - but I would guess that using classes etc. we should be able to handle both seamlessly
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- [08:15:36] <SignpostMarv>
for the user-readable data thing, tables vs li/span doesn't matter,
- [08:16:28] <SignpostMarv>
but for machine readable stuffages, there's an explicit relationship between the table cells
- [08:18:05] <SignpostMarv>
with li/span the relationship is only implied
- [08:26:11] <nambor>
i think the implied structure could be sufficient and based upon examples i've seen, mandating tables would require changes to existing systems
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- [08:56:56] <mfbot>
[[commerce-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/commerce-examples * RobManson * (+2591) Created an initial draft of the commerce domain overview
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- [10:17:47] <mfbot>
[[what-are-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=what-are-microformats&diff=0&oldid=18544 * Alex * (+333) Add Yours Here -
- [10:18:18] <mfbot>
[[what-are-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=what-are-microformats&diff=0&oldid=18545 * Alex * (+1) Alessandro Martin -
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- [10:40:50] <mfbot>
[[receipt-example-skype-phone]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=receipt-example-skype-phone&diff=0&oldid=18546 * AndyMabbett * (-931) cleanup
- [10:42:21] <mfbot>
[[User talk:Alex]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User_talk:Alex * AndyMabbett * (+72) Welcome!
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- [10:51:07] <mfbot>
[[receipt-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=receipt-examples&diff=0&oldid=18547 * AndyMabbett * (-903) moving to separate page
- [10:55:43] <mfbot>
[[receipt-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=receipt-examples&diff=0&oldid=18548 * AndyMabbett * (+12) see also
- [10:55:49] <mfbot>
[[receipt]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/receipt * AndyMabbett * (+1242) moved; add use cases
- [11:15:11] <mfbot>
[[User talk:SignpostMarv]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User_talk:SignpostMarv * AndyMabbett * (+72) Welcome!
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- [11:42:08] <mfbot>
[[geo-extension-elevation]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-extension-elevation&diff=0&oldid=18549 * AndyMabbett * (-2) fix formatting
- [11:42:34] <mfbot>
[[geo-extension-elevation]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-extension-elevation&diff=0&oldid=18550 * AndyMabbett * (+0) fix formatting
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- [11:45:45] <mfbot>
[[hcard-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=18551 * AndyMabbett * (+145) Post vCard additions - another example
- [11:48:02] <mfbot>
[[geo-extension-elevation]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-extension-elevation&diff=0&oldid=18552 * AndyMabbett * (-632) Real-World Examples - moving to own page
- [11:49:33] <mfbot>
[[hcard-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=18553 * AndyMabbett * (-729) Post vCard additions - moving to conslidate
- [11:50:44] <mfbot>
[[geo-elevation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-elevation-examples&diff=0&oldid=18554 * AndyMabbett * (+1386) moved
- [11:52:25] <mfbot>
[[geo-elevation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-elevation-examples&diff=0&oldid=18555 * AndyMabbett * (+198) preamble
- [11:54:31] <mfbot>
[[geo-elevation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-elevation-examples&diff=0&oldid=18556 * AndyMabbett * (+229) State High Points - add header row for clarity
- [11:58:07] <mfbot>
[[geo-elevation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-elevation-examples&diff=0&oldid=18557 * AndyMabbett * (+163) atribution
- [11:59:18] <mfbot>
[[geo-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=18558 * AndyMabbett * (+34) altitude - see geo-extension-elevation
- [12:05:49] <mfbot>
[[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=18559 * AndyMabbett * (+38) see also
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- [12:07:05] <mfbot>
[[vcard-suggestions]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vcard-suggestions&diff=0&oldid=18560 * AndyMabbett * (+1) Elevation - dab
- [12:08:31] <mfbot>
[[vcard-suggestions]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vcard-suggestions&diff=0&oldid=18561 * AndyMabbett * (+96) Note - CalConnect vCard Workshop
- [12:09:07] <mfbot>
[[vcard-suggestions]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vcard-suggestions&diff=0&oldid=18562 * AndyMabbett * (+18) Note - dab
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[[audio-info-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=18563 * ManuSporny * (+346) Mashups, remixes, cut-ups and audio-collages -
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[[audio-info-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=18564 * ManuSporny * (-12) Top Lists -
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- [14:46:31] <mfbot>
[[User:RobManson]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:RobManson&diff=0&oldid=18565 * RobManson * (+275) Added a simple hCard for myself
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- [14:48:48] <mfbot>
[[User:RobManson]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:RobManson&diff=0&oldid=18566 * RobManson * (+61) Added our product URL to my hCard
- [14:50:05] <nambor>
anyone here have any class warfare issues for hCard's on the wiki - e.g. my postal address works fine with operator on my own site but if I paste the exact same code into my User page operator seems to drop the fields :(
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- [14:50:29] <mfbot>
[[User talk:RobManson]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User_talk:RobManson * AndyMabbett * (+71) Welcome!
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- [14:55:55] <briansuda>
it is probably an issue with MediaWiki and certain elements
- [14:56:08] <nambor>
:(
- [14:56:29] <nambor>
that's kinda ironic that our wiki fights with uF's
- [14:59:07] <briansuda>
wikipedia has a similar issue with ABBR
- [14:59:35] <nambor>
is it worth me identifying the exact issue or is that just a waste of my time?
- [15:01:00] <mfbot>
[[User:AndyMabbett]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=18567 * AndyMabbett * (+570) update
- [15:01:06] <briansuda>
you should because it might already be a known issue or not?
- [15:02:01] <mfbot>
[[User:RobManson]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:RobManson&diff=0&oldid=18568 * RobManson * (+319) Fixed adr issue with MediaWiki adding useless <p/>'s
- [15:02:10] <nambor>
;) was simpler than I thought
- [15:02:44] <nambor>
should I document that anywhere in particular?
- [15:05:49] <briansuda>
not sure where would be best
- [15:06:09] <nambor>
ok...it's logged here anywya
- [15:06:44] <briansuda>
can you paste in what you were trying and what worked? then it is fully documents
- [15:07:21] <nambor>
I simply ran all spans/divs together on one line so MediWiki didn't add spurious <p/>'s to the markup
- [15:07:51] <nambor>
previously I had them laid out pretty printer style
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- [15:29:14] <nambor>
hi michael - just replying to your email with a bug report
- [15:29:48] <nambor>
but also have a question I might ask here - will DOMAttrModified catch an update to a textarea's contents
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- [15:48:25] <mkaply>
nambor: Hmm
- [15:48:32] <mkaply>
I honestly don't know.
- [15:48:45] <mkaply>
But a text area contents won't be parsed as DOM nodes.
- [15:49:02] <nambor>
ah...mmm indeed
- [15:49:53] <nambor>
that doesn't bode well for editable form based hCards or any other uF that use textareas
- [15:50:08] <nambor>
they'll always parse using the loaded page source then
- [15:50:35] <nambor>
which is fine...just potentially confusing user experience
- [15:51:35] <briansuda>
textarea content can only contain strings, not more mark-up
- [15:51:59] <nambor>
yeah...strings are ok
- [15:52:26] <briansuda>
so what is the confusing user experience of parsing come in?
- [15:52:40] <mkaply>
I'm not sure what you mean. a text area is just string value of a DOM node.
- [15:52:47] <nambor>
but say you use <textarea class="region"></textarea> for example
- [15:52:52] <mkaply>
When would you have a situation where the user types in and it updates live?
- [15:53:03] <nambor>
operator will always export that as empty
- [15:53:03] <mkaply>
I guess I'm trying to figure out when that would happen
- [15:53:15] <nambor>
even if the user updates the content of the textarea
- [15:53:38] <mkaply>
So you're trying to create an action where someone fills out a form and then operator immediately exports something?
- [15:53:49] <nambor>
we use this type of UI for displaying user records
- [15:53:52] <mkaply>
why wouldn't you just have them fill a form, click submit and generate a page with the microformat?
- [15:53:52] <briansuda>
textarea is the same as SPAN, so it depends on when Operator updates it´s internal DOM
- [15:54:18] <mkaply>
The problem is I can't listen to all DOM node updates. It's bad for performance.
- [15:54:29] <nambor>
it's a UX design pattern that is reasonably common
- [15:54:38] <mkaply>
I experimented with an way for a web page to send a message to operator to update microformats.
- [15:54:40] <mkaply>
But I removed it
- [15:54:51] <nambor>
i understand the performance penalty...I'm just trying to understand the limitations
- [15:55:06] <briansuda>
i´m not seeing how this is a common thing?
- [15:55:34] <nambor>
see http://mobileonlinebusiness.com.au/uf/hCard_form.html for a nasty js workaround I did for form display of an hCard
- [15:55:37] <mkaply>
I picture what he's saying. A lot of navigation of databses with user data is done with that data as entryfields
- [15:56:10] <nambor>
but discussing it with tantek (and I agree) it would be cleaner to have single fields instead of the hidden values
- [15:56:52] <nambor>
tantek is looking at extending the parsing rules to include <input type="text" class="..." value="..."/>
- [15:57:00] <briansuda>
i can see a use-case for PASTING into predefined fields, a la, live clipboard
- [15:57:36] <briansuda>
the problem is the dynamic nature of input gives you different results depending on client or server side
- [15:57:47] <nambor>
yep...but a lot of users will also just type into fields
- [15:57:50] <briansuda>
so i don´t see many people doing this AND relying on a client-side app
- [15:57:59] <nambor>
we update the vars via ajax
- [15:58:11] <nambor>
so say a user views a form like my example
- [15:58:21] <nambor>
then clicks update and essentially the UI stays the same
- [15:58:26] * mkaply has to run. talk more later
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- [15:58:29] <nambor>
then tries to export the new record as a vcard
- [15:58:38] <briansuda>
flickr is a good example... after you update the form, it also updates the HTML
- [15:59:23] <nambor>
sure that's do-able...but not all apps do that
- [16:00:01] <briansuda>
so you are having a default value from the DB in an input instead of span?
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- [17:52:25] <mfbot>
[[Template:welcome]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:welcome&diff=0&oldid=18569 * AndyMabbett * (+89) copy edit and add note about using hCards on user pages
- [17:55:36] <mfbot>
[[hcards-on-microformats-wiki]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hcards-on-microformats-wiki * AndyMabbett * (+421)
- [17:55:57] <mfbot>
[[hcards-on-microformats-wiki]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcards-on-microformats-wiki&diff=0&oldid=18570 * AndyMabbett * (+11) dab
- [17:56:33] <mfbot>
[[hcards-on-microformats-wiki]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcards-on-microformats-wiki&diff=0&oldid=18571 * AndyMabbett * (+5) *...
- [17:57:14] <mfbot>
[[hcards-on-microformats-wiki]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcards-on-microformats-wiki&diff=0&oldid=18572 * AndyMabbett * (-11)
- [17:58:10] <mfbot>
[[hcards-on-microformats-wiki]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcards-on-microformats-wiki&diff=0&oldid=18573 * AndyMabbett * (+72) descriptions
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[[receipt-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=receipt-examples&diff=0&oldid=18574 * RobManson * (-2) Added external link to example receipt
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[[receipt-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=receipt-examples&diff=0&oldid=18575 * Lastorset * (+158) Receipts - Added example sections that are pending uploads
- [22:00:46] <mfbot>
[[receipt-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=receipt-examples&diff=0&oldid=18576 * Lastorset * (+44) Google Checkout - there are to be two Google receipts
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[[rellicense-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rellicense-issues&diff=0&oldid=18577 * DrErnie * (+190) RFC 4946
- [22:34:40] <mfbot>
[[rellicense-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rellicense-issues&diff=0&oldid=18578 * DrErnie * (+0) Issues -
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