IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-08-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  10. [03:11:29] <mfbot> [[Talk:mfcomment]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:mfcomment * Kx2H8i * (+12379)
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  45. [04:37:24] <mfbot> [[Talk:cheat-sheet]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:cheat-sheet * PwfUy5 * (+12288)
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  47. [05:03:31] <mfbot> [[Talk:cheat-sheet]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Talk:cheat-sheet&diff=0&oldid=19837 * ChristopheDucamp * (-12288) revert spam from PwfUy5
  48. [05:04:07] <mfbot> [[Talk:directory-inclusion-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Talk:directory-inclusion-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=19838 * ChristopheDucamp * (-12061) reverted spam from DndHwj
  49. [05:04:54] <mfbot> [[Talk:mfcomment]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Talk:mfcomment&diff=0&oldid=19839 * ChristopheDucamp * (-12379) reverted spam from Kx2H8i
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  52. [05:26:20] <mfbot> [[Talk:meeting-minutes-brainstorming]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:meeting-minutes-brainstorming * CzuV8w * (+12201)
  53. [05:50:07] <mfbot> [[Talk:hcalendar-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:hcalendar-fr * Lk0U8j * (+12282)
  54. [05:52:58] <mfbot> [[comment-problem]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=comment-problem&diff=0&oldid=19840 * SliRh9 * (+12315)
  55. [06:00:20] <mfbot> [[genealogy-examples]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/genealogy-examples * IomEz8 * (+12531)
  56. [06:00:41] <mfbot> [[User:RyanKing]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:RyanKing&diff=0&oldid=19841 * GodFvt * (+12202)
  57. [06:02:47] <mfbot> [[User talk:RyanKing]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/User_talk:RyanKing * MneL2i * (+12511)
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  60. [06:15:23] <mfbot> [[xfn-brainstorming-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=19842 * ChristopheDucamp * (+9773) [fr: sync'd with original page - (consolidation identité + suggestion de nouveaux rel]
  61. [06:21:59] <mfbot> [[Talk:events/2006-03-07-etech-microformats]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:events/2006-03-07-etech-microformats * SzgJgw * (+12385)
  62. [06:30:16] <mfbot> [[hcard-brainstorming-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=19843 * ChristopheDucamp * (+359) ADR sans enfants - translated
  63. [06:33:47] <mfbot> [[hcard-brainstorming-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=19844 * ChristopheDucamp * (-13) [fr: translation Adr without children]
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  66. [07:14:58] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  71. [08:08:21] <jibot> ddfreyne is Denis Defreyne and blogs at http://stoneship.org/.
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  75. [09:15:37] <jibot> Charl is Charl van Niekerk and writes about standards at http://standards.za.net/
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  78. [09:36:15] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  84. [11:48:44] <Whiskey_M> 'lo
  85. [11:49:01] <Prometheus^> howdy
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  88. [13:01:57] <ddfreyne> Hm… in a hAtom feed where every entry has a rel-enclosure… you'd put the <a> with rel="enclosure" inside the entry-content, right?
  89. [13:02:40] <ddfreyne> It'd make sense to do so… but that creates another issue if Sparkle is used with hAtom…
  90. [13:03:13] <ddfreyne> The sparkle update window would contain the download hyperlink, and people may click that that link… which would open in the web browser and it'd be downloaded
  91. [13:03:47] <ddfreyne> but that circumvents sparkle… so that link would have to be hidden somehow
  92. [13:04:22] <ddfreyne> So if there is a mini "download" microformat, the item with class="download" could be hidden from the update window
  93. [13:04:30] <ddfreyne> and I'm just rambling and everyone is ignoring me, right? ;)
  94. [13:06:04] * bengee (n=bengee@ip48.209.reserved.ish.de) has joined #microformats
  95. [13:06:04] <jibot> bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
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  97. [13:10:31] <mfbot> [[downloads-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=downloads-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=19845 * DenisDefreyne * (+918) Adding "download link in entry-content" issue
  98. [13:12:20] <ddfreyne> I wonder whether I'm too Sparkle-oriented though
  99. [13:13:32] <ddfreyne> appcasts are not necessarily Sparkle-related… but sparkle's pretty much the only implementation of appcasts out there
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  107. [14:56:51] <mfbot> [[User:VanderWal]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:VanderWal * VanderWal * (+153)
  108. [14:59:12] <mfbot> [[social-network-portability]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=social-network-portability&diff=0&oldid=19846 * VanderWal * (+158) Discussion and suggestions -
  109. [14:59:48] <mfbot> [[social-network-portability]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=social-network-portability&diff=0&oldid=19847 * VanderWal * (+0) Discussion and suggestions -
  110. [15:01:59] <mfbot> [[social-network-portability]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=social-network-portability&diff=0&oldid=19848 * VanderWal * (+249) Discussion and suggestions -
  111. [15:11:10] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) deleted "Talk:mfcomment": spam
  112. [15:11:26] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) deleted "Talk:directory-inclusion-brainstorming": spam
  113. [15:11:47] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) deleted "Talk:cheat-sheet": spam
  114. [15:12:03] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) deleted "Talk:meeting-minutes-brainstorming": spam
  115. [15:12:19] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) deleted "Talk:hcalendar-fr": spam
  116. [15:12:35] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) deleted "Talk:events/2006-03-07-etech-microformats": spam
  117. [15:13:32] <ddfreyne> microformats so needs a Duke Nukem: hAtomic Edition.
  118. [15:14:26] <mfbot> [[comment-problem]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=comment-problem&diff=0&oldid=19849 * Brian * (-12315) Reverted edit of SliRh9, changed back to last version by IwaiMasaharu
  119. [15:14:42] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) deleted "genealogy-examples": spam
  120. [15:14:59] <mfbot> [[User:RyanKing]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:RyanKing&diff=0&oldid=19850 * Brian * (-12202) Reverted edit of GodFvt, changed back to last version by RyanKing
  121. [15:15:10] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) deleted "User talk:RyanKing": spam
  122. [15:16:00] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) blocked "User:SliRh9" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
  123. [15:16:46] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) blocked "User:GodFvt" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
  124. [15:19:58] <mfbot> [[downloads-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=downloads-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=19851 * DenisDefreyne * (+622) Adding shortVersionNumber to Version Numbers issue
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  127. [15:47:36] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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  130. [16:03:00] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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  133. [16:40:15] <mfbot> [[rel-home-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-home-issues&diff=0&oldid=19852 * MaxHarmony * (+166)
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  142. [17:58:23] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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  144. [18:22:23] <ddfreyne> http://stoneship.org/journal/2007/hatom-support-for-sparkle/
  145. [18:22:39] <ddfreyne> unfortunately the list of appcast microformat issues is only growing ;)
  146. [18:59:37] * tantek (n=tantek@65.87.23.35) has joined #microformats
  147. [18:59:37] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  148. [18:59:37] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  150. [19:00:46] <mfbot> [[multilingual-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=19853 * GzpYxr * (+12391)
  151. [19:02:13] <ddfreyne> tantek: I'm considering renaming the appcast aka downloads pages back to their old names, i.e. appcast-*… the name "downloads" does not reflect what the microformat is about
  152. [19:03:14] <ddfreyne> (I also don't believe "appcast" is too jargon-y; I guess I could say the name "atom" is too jargony too)
  153. [19:05:11] <ddfreyne> I've also been thinking… the hash-* stuff is only applicable to enclosures, so perhaps it's better focusing on a "download" microformat that builds around rel-enclosure and adds hashes, instead of working on a "hash" microformat
  154. [19:12:39] * ddfreyne is also not sure why chris wanted to use hListing... all existing appcasts use RSS feeds anyway, which map to atom
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  157. [19:19:55] * lathiat <- BarCampBlock
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  162. [19:20:20] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  163. [19:20:31] <xian_> jotting notes from the microformats meetup at BarCampBlock
  164. [19:20:36] <xian_> tantek is defining html
  165. [19:20:41] <xian_> microdefining it
  166. [19:20:49] <EvanHamilton> also potentially jotting notes from the microformats meetup at BarCampBlock
  167. [19:21:01] <lathiat> realising the vision "symantic web"
  168. [19:21:02] <xian_> ...making the web more semantic
  169. [19:21:09] <xian_> making the web pages you use more useful in general
  170. [19:21:10] <lathiat> makign the web mor euseful or less of a hassle
  171. [19:21:11] <xian_> or less of a hassle
  172. [19:21:20] <xian_> jinx
  173. [19:21:24] <xian_> hcard
  174. [19:21:30] <xian_> hcalendar - events and time based info
  175. [19:21:32] <xian_> hAtom
  176. [19:21:32] <lathiat> hcard - contacts, hcalendar - events
  177. [19:21:35] <lathiat> hatom - syndiated info on web pages
  178. [19:21:36] <xian_> syndicated info on web pages
  179. [19:21:57] <xian_> contact info in hCards (based on vcard)
  180. [19:22:08] <xian_> piggybacking on visible web content
  181. [19:22:16] <xian_> so people don't have to copy and paste info one field at a time
  182. [19:22:23] <xian_> one-click "Add to address book" link
  183. [19:22:28] <lathiat> google maps supports hcard
  184. [19:22:32] <thor> didn't know that!
  185. [19:22:35] <thor> cool
  186. [19:22:36] <lathiat> if you run a microformat enabled browser like firefox with <x> plugin
  187. [19:22:44] <xian_> yahoo local too
  188. [19:22:46] <lathiat> you can add business on google maps to your browser automatically
  189. [19:22:53] <xian_> open call for topics
  190. [19:22:57] <xian_> why did you come to this session
  191. [19:23:12] <xian_> question: what's coming next, next microformats
  192. [19:23:31] <lathiat> quesiton; whats real and whats jsut ideas
  193. [19:23:33] <xian_> what's real and what's just ideas
  194. [19:24:00] <lathiat> Question "firefox" - what is firefox goign to do and how is it goign to be an information broker
  195. [19:24:11] <xian_> design pattern microformat - good or bad idea?
  196. [19:24:17] <lathiat> Applicability of microformats beyond a web browser
  197. [19:24:38] <xian_> how to get buy-in
  198. [19:24:41] <lathiat> question; tactics for getting buy-in to get developers on board
  199. [19:24:47] <xian_> incentives
  200. [19:25:09] <lathiat> questionl; extensaibility, difference between official and ad-hoc microformats
  201. [19:26:56] <lathiat> "If you were a microformat, which microformat woudl you be"
  202. [19:28:06] * ianloic_ (n=ian@65.87.23.35) has joined #microformats
  203. [19:28:08] <ianloic_> woot
  204. [19:28:13] <ianloic_> at barcampblock
  205. [19:28:39] <xian_> factoryjoe talking re flock and how the user agent is your agent on the web...
  206. [19:28:44] * jaylaney (n=jaylaney@65.87.23.35) has joined #microformats
  207. [19:28:46] <xian_> analogy of right-clicking on images
  208. [19:28:53] <xian_> should also be the case for events, people, other info embedded on web pages
  209. [19:29:05] <lathiat> another aspect; search
  210. [19:29:11] <lathiat> compares to spotlight, google desktop
  211. [19:29:18] * Skud (n=Skud@65.87.23.35) has joined #microformats
  212. [19:29:39] <lathiat> aggregating data from accross various web sites
  213. [19:30:22] <lathiat> What use cases work today in the browser
  214. [19:30:32] <xian_> @t: use cases that work today in the browser
  215. [19:30:40] <lathiat> Use cases;
  216. [19:31:07] <lathiat> You should install the operator plugin in firefox
  217. [19:31:21] <jaylaney> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4106
  218. [19:31:31] <lathiat> Operator plugin will light up when information is available
  219. [19:31:33] <lathiat> Contacts, Events, etc
  220. [19:31:46] <jaylaney> (link for operator plugin)
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  223. [19:34:19] <xian_> Rob Lord? working on Songbird (the Firefox of media players)
  224. [19:34:34] <xian_> wasn't Adaptive Path involved in designing Songbird? or am I mixing it up w/ something else?
  225. [19:34:49] <xian_> somgbird says there's a mediaweb
  226. [19:34:58] <xian_> human defined metadata for each type
  227. [19:35:07] <thor> i don't believe adaptive path was involved
  228. [19:35:08] <xian_> metadata should be in the pages - methods formats protocols
  229. [19:35:12] <thor> with songbird
  230. [19:35:14] <xian_> tantek: it often already is in the page
  231. [19:35:24] <xian_> must have been a different player proj
  232. [19:36:20] <xian_> GRDDL can interpret a microformat as a semantic web triple
  233. [19:36:24] <xian_> (RDF)
  234. [19:37:18] <lathiat> If you let every create their own standards
  235. [19:37:21] <xian_> Tower of Babel problem
  236. [19:37:23] <lathiat> You end up with lots of them
  237. [19:37:27] <lathiat> You breakdown he goal
  238. [19:37:40] <xian_> data-exchange interoperability
  239. [19:37:51] <xian_> the whole point of creating a format is exchanging hte data with someone else
  240. [19:37:56] <xian_> or two toher people s/b able to communicate
  241. [19:41:14] <lathiat> its the disruptive innovations that tend to launc new formats/protocols/etc
  242. [19:41:47] <xian_> next topic: getting buy-in from developers
  243. [19:41:55] <lathiat> "why should i bother"
  244. [19:42:00] <lathiat> same problem rss had like 5 years ago
  245. [19:42:01] <xian_> problem rss had 5 yrs ago
  246. [19:42:31] <xian_> when was rss invented? don't go there
  247. [19:42:45] <xian_> step 1: get people to know the term
  248. [19:42:56] <xian_> self-descriptive formats much easier to understand
  249. [19:42:58] <lathiat> standardization is an obstacle
  250. [19:43:43] <xian_> jordan: contact info on my personal site has hcard attributes in html tags
  251. [19:43:44] <xian_> zero effort
  252. [19:43:51] <xian_> t: what was the incentive?
  253. [19:43:52] <xian_> jordan: it made sense
  254. [19:44:00] <xian_> easy to implement, might as well do it
  255. [19:44:05] <xian_> you're going to use classes in your html anyway
  256. [19:44:08] <xian_> might as well make it meaningful
  257. [19:44:17] <lathiat> you might as well standardize the rest and *poof* its a hCard
  258. [19:44:44] <xian_> scottrosenberg: how about for non-developers? simple plug-in for WordPress (for example)?
  259. [19:45:15] <xian_> t: 2 phases: (1) developer adopt it, (2) users
  260. [19:45:19] <xian_> (3) ???, (4) profit!
  261. [19:45:35] <xian_> q: i'm an end user who tries a lot of new softare
  262. [19:45:40] <xian_> it has to really help and not overlap with other things
  263. [19:45:47] <xian_> a lot of things are semi-redundant
  264. [19:45:57] <xian_> (that was software up there not softare)
  265. [19:46:00] <xian_> it has to really work easily
  266. [19:46:02] <lathiat> it has to really work easily
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  272. [19:53:09] <thor> here's the satisfaction hcard importer:
  273. [19:53:10] <thor> http://getsatisfaction.com/people/new
  274. [19:54:29] <xian_> extending microformats
  275. [19:54:44] <xian_> microformats based on existing formats (vCard, iCal, etc.)
  276. [19:54:57] <xian_> microformats based on existing microformats: atom/molecule metaphor
  277. [19:55:54] <xian_> extend geo to include altitude, what planet
  278. [19:56:01] <xian_> format geolocations on the moon and mars, for intance
  279. [19:56:02] <xian_> instance
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  287. [20:01:17] <xian_> POSH = plain ol' semantic html
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  291. [20:04:10] <mfbot> [[User:Chris Messina]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:Chris_Messina&diff=0&oldid=19854 * Kp5Hyt * (+12344)
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  309. [21:43:39] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  310. [21:53:01] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:LyfDcu" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
  311. [21:53:22] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:Kp5Hyt" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
  312. [21:53:43] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:GzpYxr" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
  313. [21:55:44] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) deleted "Talk:xoxo-faq": spam
  314. [21:56:15] <mfbot> [[User:Chris Messina]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:Chris_Messina&diff=0&oldid=19855 * Tantek * (-12344) Reverted edit of Kp5Hyt, changed back to last version by Tantek
  315. [21:56:21] <mfbot> [[multilingual-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=19856 * Tantek * (-12391) Reverted edit of GzpYxr, changed back to last version by Patfm
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