IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-08-18
Timestamps are in UTC.
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[[Talk:mfcomment]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:mfcomment * Kx2H8i * (+12379)
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[[Talk:directory-inclusion-brainstorming]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:directory-inclusion-brainstorming * DndHwj * (+12061)
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[[Talk:cheat-sheet]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:cheat-sheet * PwfUy5 * (+12288)
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- [05:03:31] <mfbot>
[[Talk:cheat-sheet]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Talk:cheat-sheet&diff=0&oldid=19837 * ChristopheDucamp * (-12288) revert spam from PwfUy5
- [05:04:07] <mfbot>
[[Talk:directory-inclusion-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Talk:directory-inclusion-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=19838 * ChristopheDucamp * (-12061) reverted spam from DndHwj
- [05:04:54] <mfbot>
[[Talk:mfcomment]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Talk:mfcomment&diff=0&oldid=19839 * ChristopheDucamp * (-12379) reverted spam from Kx2H8i
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- [05:26:20] <mfbot>
[[Talk:meeting-minutes-brainstorming]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:meeting-minutes-brainstorming * CzuV8w * (+12201)
- [05:50:07] <mfbot>
[[Talk:hcalendar-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:hcalendar-fr * Lk0U8j * (+12282)
- [05:52:58] <mfbot>
[[comment-problem]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=comment-problem&diff=0&oldid=19840 * SliRh9 * (+12315)
- [06:00:20] <mfbot>
[[genealogy-examples]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/genealogy-examples * IomEz8 * (+12531)
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[[User:RyanKing]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:RyanKing&diff=0&oldid=19841 * GodFvt * (+12202)
- [06:02:47] <mfbot>
[[User talk:RyanKing]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/User_talk:RyanKing * MneL2i * (+12511)
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- [06:15:23] <mfbot>
[[xfn-brainstorming-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=19842 * ChristopheDucamp * (+9773) [fr: sync'd with original page - (consolidation identité + suggestion de nouveaux rel]
- [06:21:59] <mfbot>
[[Talk:events/2006-03-07-etech-microformats]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:events/2006-03-07-etech-microformats * SzgJgw * (+12385)
- [06:30:16] <mfbot>
[[hcard-brainstorming-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=19843 * ChristopheDucamp * (+359) ADR sans enfants - translated
- [06:33:47] <mfbot>
[[hcard-brainstorming-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=19844 * ChristopheDucamp * (-13) [fr: translation Adr without children]
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- [07:14:58] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [08:08:21] <jibot>
ddfreyne is Denis Defreyne and blogs at http://stoneship.org/.
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Charl is Charl van Niekerk and writes about standards at http://standards.za.net/
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- [09:36:15] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [11:48:44] <Whiskey_M>
'lo
- [11:49:01] <Prometheus^>
howdy
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- [13:01:57] <ddfreyne>
Hm… in a hAtom feed where every entry has a rel-enclosure… you'd put the <a> with rel="enclosure" inside the entry-content, right?
- [13:02:40] <ddfreyne>
It'd make sense to do so… but that creates another issue if Sparkle is used with hAtom…
- [13:03:13] <ddfreyne>
The sparkle update window would contain the download hyperlink, and people may click that that link… which would open in the web browser and it'd be downloaded
- [13:03:47] <ddfreyne>
but that circumvents sparkle… so that link would have to be hidden somehow
- [13:04:22] <ddfreyne>
So if there is a mini "download" microformat, the item with class="download" could be hidden from the update window
- [13:04:30] <ddfreyne>
and I'm just rambling and everyone is ignoring me, right? ;)
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- [13:06:04] <jibot>
bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
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- [13:10:31] <mfbot>
[[downloads-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=downloads-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=19845 * DenisDefreyne * (+918) Adding "download link in entry-content" issue
- [13:12:20] <ddfreyne>
I wonder whether I'm too Sparkle-oriented though
- [13:13:32] <ddfreyne>
appcasts are not necessarily Sparkle-related… but sparkle's pretty much the only implementation of appcasts out there
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- [14:56:51] <mfbot>
[[User:VanderWal]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:VanderWal * VanderWal * (+153)
- [14:59:12] <mfbot>
[[social-network-portability]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=social-network-portability&diff=0&oldid=19846 * VanderWal * (+158) Discussion and suggestions -
- [14:59:48] <mfbot>
[[social-network-portability]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=social-network-portability&diff=0&oldid=19847 * VanderWal * (+0) Discussion and suggestions -
- [15:01:59] <mfbot>
[[social-network-portability]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=social-network-portability&diff=0&oldid=19848 * VanderWal * (+249) Discussion and suggestions -
- [15:11:10] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) deleted "Talk:mfcomment": spam
- [15:11:26] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) deleted "Talk:directory-inclusion-brainstorming": spam
- [15:11:47] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) deleted "Talk:cheat-sheet": spam
- [15:12:03] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) deleted "Talk:meeting-minutes-brainstorming": spam
- [15:12:19] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) deleted "Talk:hcalendar-fr": spam
- [15:12:35] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) deleted "Talk:events/2006-03-07-etech-microformats": spam
- [15:13:32] <ddfreyne>
microformats so needs a Duke Nukem: hAtomic Edition.
- [15:14:26] <mfbot>
[[comment-problem]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=comment-problem&diff=0&oldid=19849 * Brian * (-12315) Reverted edit of SliRh9, changed back to last version by IwaiMasaharu
- [15:14:42] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) deleted "genealogy-examples": spam
- [15:14:59] <mfbot>
[[User:RyanKing]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:RyanKing&diff=0&oldid=19850 * Brian * (-12202) Reverted edit of GodFvt, changed back to last version by RyanKing
- [15:15:10] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) deleted "User talk:RyanKing": spam
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[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) blocked "User:SliRh9" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
- [15:16:46] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) blocked "User:GodFvt" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
- [15:19:58] <mfbot>
[[downloads-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=downloads-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=19851 * DenisDefreyne * (+622) Adding shortVersionNumber to Version Numbers issue
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- [15:47:36] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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- [16:03:00] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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- [16:40:15] <mfbot>
[[rel-home-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-home-issues&diff=0&oldid=19852 * MaxHarmony * (+166)
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- [17:58:23] <jibot>
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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- [18:22:23] <ddfreyne>
http://stoneship.org/journal/2007/hatom-support-for-sparkle/
- [18:22:39] <ddfreyne>
unfortunately the list of appcast microformat issues is only growing ;)
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- [18:59:37] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [18:59:37] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [19:00:46] <mfbot>
[[multilingual-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=19853 * GzpYxr * (+12391)
- [19:02:13] <ddfreyne>
tantek: I'm considering renaming the appcast aka downloads pages back to their old names, i.e. appcast-*… the name "downloads" does not reflect what the microformat is about
- [19:03:14] <ddfreyne>
(I also don't believe "appcast" is too jargon-y; I guess I could say the name "atom" is too jargony too)
- [19:05:11] <ddfreyne>
I've also been thinking… the hash-* stuff is only applicable to enclosures, so perhaps it's better focusing on a "download" microformat that builds around rel-enclosure and adds hashes, instead of working on a "hash" microformat
- [19:12:39] * ddfreyne is also not sure why chris wanted to use hListing... all existing appcasts use RSS feeds anyway, which map to atom
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- [19:20:20] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
- [19:20:31] <xian_>
jotting notes from the microformats meetup at BarCampBlock
- [19:20:36] <xian_>
tantek is defining html
- [19:20:41] <xian_>
microdefining it
- [19:20:49] <EvanHamilton>
also potentially jotting notes from the microformats meetup at BarCampBlock
- [19:21:01] <lathiat>
realising the vision "symantic web"
- [19:21:02] <xian_>
...making the web more semantic
- [19:21:09] <xian_>
making the web pages you use more useful in general
- [19:21:10] <lathiat>
makign the web mor euseful or less of a hassle
- [19:21:11] <xian_>
or less of a hassle
- [19:21:20] <xian_>
jinx
- [19:21:24] <xian_>
hcard
- [19:21:30] <xian_>
hcalendar - events and time based info
- [19:21:32] <xian_>
hAtom
- [19:21:32] <lathiat>
hcard - contacts, hcalendar - events
- [19:21:35] <lathiat>
hatom - syndiated info on web pages
- [19:21:36] <xian_>
syndicated info on web pages
- [19:21:57] <xian_>
contact info in hCards (based on vcard)
- [19:22:08] <xian_>
piggybacking on visible web content
- [19:22:16] <xian_>
so people don't have to copy and paste info one field at a time
- [19:22:23] <xian_>
one-click "Add to address book" link
- [19:22:28] <lathiat>
google maps supports hcard
- [19:22:32] <thor>
didn't know that!
- [19:22:35] <thor>
cool
- [19:22:36] <lathiat>
if you run a microformat enabled browser like firefox with <x> plugin
- [19:22:44] <xian_>
yahoo local too
- [19:22:46] <lathiat>
you can add business on google maps to your browser automatically
- [19:22:53] <xian_>
open call for topics
- [19:22:57] <xian_>
why did you come to this session
- [19:23:12] <xian_>
question: what's coming next, next microformats
- [19:23:31] <lathiat>
quesiton; whats real and whats jsut ideas
- [19:23:33] <xian_>
what's real and what's just ideas
- [19:24:00] <lathiat>
Question "firefox" - what is firefox goign to do and how is it goign to be an information broker
- [19:24:11] <xian_>
design pattern microformat - good or bad idea?
- [19:24:17] <lathiat>
Applicability of microformats beyond a web browser
- [19:24:38] <xian_>
how to get buy-in
- [19:24:41] <lathiat>
question; tactics for getting buy-in to get developers on board
- [19:24:47] <xian_>
incentives
- [19:25:09] <lathiat>
questionl; extensaibility, difference between official and ad-hoc microformats
- [19:26:56] <lathiat>
"If you were a microformat, which microformat woudl you be"
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- [19:28:08] <ianloic_>
woot
- [19:28:13] <ianloic_>
at barcampblock
- [19:28:39] <xian_>
factoryjoe talking re flock and how the user agent is your agent on the web...
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- [19:28:46] <xian_>
analogy of right-clicking on images
- [19:28:53] <xian_>
should also be the case for events, people, other info embedded on web pages
- [19:29:05] <lathiat>
another aspect; search
- [19:29:11] <lathiat>
compares to spotlight, google desktop
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- [19:29:39] <lathiat>
aggregating data from accross various web sites
- [19:30:22] <lathiat>
What use cases work today in the browser
- [19:30:32] <xian_>
@t: use cases that work today in the browser
- [19:30:40] <lathiat>
Use cases;
- [19:31:07] <lathiat>
You should install the operator plugin in firefox
- [19:31:21] <jaylaney>
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4106
- [19:31:31] <lathiat>
Operator plugin will light up when information is available
- [19:31:33] <lathiat>
Contacts, Events, etc
- [19:31:46] <jaylaney>
(link for operator plugin)
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- [19:34:19] <xian_>
Rob Lord? working on Songbird (the Firefox of media players)
- [19:34:34] <xian_>
wasn't Adaptive Path involved in designing Songbird? or am I mixing it up w/ something else?
- [19:34:49] <xian_>
somgbird says there's a mediaweb
- [19:34:58] <xian_>
human defined metadata for each type
- [19:35:07] <thor>
i don't believe adaptive path was involved
- [19:35:08] <xian_>
metadata should be in the pages - methods formats protocols
- [19:35:12] <thor>
with songbird
- [19:35:14] <xian_>
tantek: it often already is in the page
- [19:35:24] <xian_>
must have been a different player proj
- [19:36:20] <xian_>
GRDDL can interpret a microformat as a semantic web triple
- [19:36:24] <xian_>
(RDF)
- [19:37:18] <lathiat>
If you let every create their own standards
- [19:37:21] <xian_>
Tower of Babel problem
- [19:37:23] <lathiat>
You end up with lots of them
- [19:37:27] <lathiat>
You breakdown he goal
- [19:37:40] <xian_>
data-exchange interoperability
- [19:37:51] <xian_>
the whole point of creating a format is exchanging hte data with someone else
- [19:37:56] <xian_>
or two toher people s/b able to communicate
- [19:41:14] <lathiat>
its the disruptive innovations that tend to launc new formats/protocols/etc
- [19:41:47] <xian_>
next topic: getting buy-in from developers
- [19:41:55] <lathiat>
"why should i bother"
- [19:42:00] <lathiat>
same problem rss had like 5 years ago
- [19:42:01] <xian_>
problem rss had 5 yrs ago
- [19:42:31] <xian_>
when was rss invented? don't go there
- [19:42:45] <xian_>
step 1: get people to know the term
- [19:42:56] <xian_>
self-descriptive formats much easier to understand
- [19:42:58] <lathiat>
standardization is an obstacle
- [19:43:43] <xian_>
jordan: contact info on my personal site has hcard attributes in html tags
- [19:43:44] <xian_>
zero effort
- [19:43:51] <xian_>
t: what was the incentive?
- [19:43:52] <xian_>
jordan: it made sense
- [19:44:00] <xian_>
easy to implement, might as well do it
- [19:44:05] <xian_>
you're going to use classes in your html anyway
- [19:44:08] <xian_>
might as well make it meaningful
- [19:44:17] <lathiat>
you might as well standardize the rest and *poof* its a hCard
- [19:44:44] <xian_>
scottrosenberg: how about for non-developers? simple plug-in for WordPress (for example)?
- [19:45:15] <xian_>
t: 2 phases: (1) developer adopt it, (2) users
- [19:45:19] <xian_>
(3) ???, (4) profit!
- [19:45:35] <xian_>
q: i'm an end user who tries a lot of new softare
- [19:45:40] <xian_>
it has to really help and not overlap with other things
- [19:45:47] <xian_>
a lot of things are semi-redundant
- [19:45:57] <xian_>
(that was software up there not softare)
- [19:46:00] <xian_>
it has to really work easily
- [19:46:02] <lathiat>
it has to really work easily
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- [19:53:09] <thor>
here's the satisfaction hcard importer:
- [19:53:10] <thor>
http://getsatisfaction.com/people/new
- [19:54:29] <xian_>
extending microformats
- [19:54:44] <xian_>
microformats based on existing formats (vCard, iCal, etc.)
- [19:54:57] <xian_>
microformats based on existing microformats: atom/molecule metaphor
- [19:55:54] <xian_>
extend geo to include altitude, what planet
- [19:56:01] <xian_>
format geolocations on the moon and mars, for intance
- [19:56:02] <xian_>
instance
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- [20:01:17] <xian_>
POSH = plain ol' semantic html
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[[User:Chris Messina]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:Chris_Messina&diff=0&oldid=19854 * Kp5Hyt * (+12344)
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[[Talk:xoxo-faq]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:xoxo-faq * LyfDcu * (+12119)
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tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:LyfDcu" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
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[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:Kp5Hyt" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
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[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:GzpYxr" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
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[[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) deleted "Talk:xoxo-faq": spam
- [21:56:15] <mfbot>
[[User:Chris Messina]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:Chris_Messina&diff=0&oldid=19855 * Tantek * (-12344) Reverted edit of Kp5Hyt, changed back to last version by Tantek
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[[multilingual-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=multilingual-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=19856 * Tantek * (-12391) Reverted edit of GzpYxr, changed back to last version by Patfm
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kingryan is ryan king
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