IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-09-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  6. [00:25:50] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  18. [02:09:54] <mfbot> [[irc-people]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=21481 * MattBowen * (+96) Added myself
  19. [02:11:40] <mfbot> [[irc-people]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=21482 * MattBowen * (+1) Sorted myself
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  23. [03:15:52] <jibot> jimbojw is Jim R. Wilson of http://jimbojw.com/
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  25. [03:16:22] <jimbojw> jibot: you are the wind beneath my wings
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  29. [03:23:13] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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  31. [03:30:02] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  36. [04:08:36] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  48. [07:41:14] <jibot> bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
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  52. [08:03:55] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
  53. [08:09:27] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) has joined #microformats
  54. [08:09:27] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  56. [08:14:56] <jibot> BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk ( 0000/ 0100 GMT)
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  59. [08:18:30] <jibot> DanC_lap is DanC on his laptop.
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  70. [09:26:26] <mfbot> [[press]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press&diff=0&oldid=21483 * ChristopheDucamp * (+357) added article published in ecommerce exhibition guide (Paris)
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  73. [09:30:52] <speedyop> hello there
  74. [09:42:50] <bluesmoon> hello speedyop
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  82. [10:57:27] <mfbot> [[blog-description-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-description-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=21484 * TbcO9m * (+14449)
  83. [11:04:11] <mfbot> [[blog-description-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-description-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=21485 * BenWard * (-14449) Reverted edit of TbcO9m, changed back to last version by Tantek
  84. [11:04:11] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * BenWard * (+0) blocked "User:TbcO9m" with an expiry time of indefinite: Spamtastic.
  85. [11:04:11] <bluesmoon> fast
  86. [11:04:11] * grunwald2 (n=Horst@fw.ofwgruppe.de) has joined #microformats
  87. [11:04:11] <BenWard> Why thank you ;)
  88. [11:05:12] * UncleFu86 (n=Horst@fw.ofwgruppe.de) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  89. [11:06:15] <bluesmoon> :)
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  96. [12:09:05] <KillQuick> hi
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  98. [12:18:16] <mfbot> [[zen-garden]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=zen-garden&diff=0&oldid=21486 * ShawnDrew * (+140) Interested parties -
  99. [12:19:57] <mfbot> [[zen-garden]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=zen-garden&diff=0&oldid=21487 * ShawnDrew * (-4) Interested parties -
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  106. [12:43:58] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  111. [12:58:25] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
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  114. [13:13:59] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=21488 * Richard Conyard * (+103) Examples To Act On -
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  117. [13:23:41] * mefisto|w is now known as mefisto
  118. [13:44:46] * surial (n=surial@213.211.187.130) has joined #microformats
  119. [13:45:30] <surial> So, I have some questions about hCard.
  120. [13:46:33] <surial> This one, for example: http://richi.co.uk/blog/2005/12/structured-blogging.html
  121. [13:47:07] <surial> uses 'title' all over the place. hKit parses those instead of the actual content, which is why hKit gets it wrong. It's my understand that you should only look at 'title' if it's an <abbr> tag and otherwise ignore it. Is this my mistake, the spec's mistake, or hKit's bug?
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  124. [14:01:29] <jibot> jimbojw is Jim R. Wilson of http://jimbojw.com/
  125. [14:01:59] <jimbojw> jibot: @--^-v---
  126. [14:06:48] <surial> illustir: The swarthy seadogs in these waters don't be speakin' much aboot hKit bugs and hCard vagaries.
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  133. [14:34:32] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  134. [14:34:32] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  136. [14:40:41] <surial> tantek: did you get some time to look at my email? Looking at a few more hCards in the wild, the situations I described turn out to be pretty rare, so I'm tempted to say they are all bad hCards, but, still.
  137. [14:41:08] <tantek> surial, probably not - did you send to the microformats-discuss list?
  138. [14:41:19] <surial> No, but I guess I'll do that next after I clean up the descriptions a bit.
  139. [14:41:24] <tantek> or if it is about parsing, please send to microformats-dev
  140. [14:41:39] <surial> one is definitely about parsing.
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  146. [15:30:26] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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  150. [15:34:52] <mfbot> [[press]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press&diff=0&oldid=21489 * DanC * (+144) InternetNews.com on GRDDL and microformats
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  152. [15:55:47] <mfbot> [[press]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press&diff=0&oldid=21490 * AndyMabbett * (+134) sort format and fix last addition
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  155. [16:25:41] <mfbot> [[figure-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=figure-examples&diff=0&oldid=21491 * EdwardOConnor * (+670) Existing Practices - describe and link to my figure markup
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  157. [16:59:07] <mkaply> surial: note that the telephones are wrong in that structured blogging site
  158. [16:59:30] <surial> Yeah, I figured as much.
  159. [16:59:32] <mkaply> reasonably common mistake. class=voice
  160. [16:59:35] <surial> But hKit also botches everything else.
  161. [16:59:46] <surial> Mostly because it sees 'title' attributes and is all over them eventhough they aren't on abbr tags.
  162. [17:00:11] <mkaply> Ah.
  163. [17:00:18] <mkaply> Yeah. I don't see why this person has title= everywhere
  164. [17:00:21] <mkaply> but it should not be picking those up
  165. [17:00:23] <surial> And another one which is more a confusing bit of hCard sepc itself...
  166. [17:00:28] <surial> s/sepc/spec, is:
  167. [17:00:43] <surial> <span class="org"><a class="url" href="FOOBAR">XYZZY</a></span>
  168. [17:00:47] <surial> Should I be detecting org = XYZZY here?
  169. [17:01:17] <surial> I definitely should for <A class="org url" href="FOOBAR">XYZZY</a>, and in that circumstance I do, but in the <span><a> situation, I currently don't.
  170. [17:04:46] * KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@c-76-102-254-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  171. [17:10:43] * ddfreyne (n=ddfreyne@unaffiliated/ddfreyne) has joined #microformats
  172. [17:10:43] <jibot> ddfreyne is Denis Defreyne and blogs at http://stoneship.org/.
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  179. [17:27:12] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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  182. [17:41:27] <mkaply> surial: You should be grabbing the text content of the org
  183. [17:41:31] <mkaply> So you should grab XYZZY
  184. [17:41:47] <mkaply> What I do is just grab the textcontent of the class
  185. [17:41:54] <mkaply> s/class/span
  186. [17:42:20] <surial> I don't grab it because I'm current seeing the XYZZY bit as the (wrong) option for the url bit. If there was no class="url" on there I would grab it.
  187. [17:42:41] <surial> It's a bit of a problem because it means I need to try all variations on the entire stack of open classes.
  188. [17:43:42] * briansuda is reading catching-up
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  191. [17:46:39] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
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  195. [18:01:04] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  210. [19:06:35] <jibot> julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
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  215. [19:27:25] <jibot> DanC_lap is DanC on his laptop.
  216. [19:43:50] <mkaply> surial: You can look at my parser code and maybe glean some ideas from there
  217. [19:44:00] <surial> Your parser =?
  218. [19:44:44] <surial> ah, you wrote operator.
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  228. [20:39:48] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
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  235. [20:48:05] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  247. [21:29:03] <OoS> Do I really need to put this in my webpages if I'm using XFN? - <head profile="http://gmpg.org/xfn/11">
  248. [21:29:21] <tantek> it's a SHOULD not a MUST
  249. [21:29:54] <OoS> Thanks :-)
  250. [21:29:58] <hober> N.B. RFC 2119's SHOULD is quite a bit stronger than the plan English "should"
  251. [21:30:11] <OoS> I didn't notice anything similar for other Microformats
  252. [21:30:43] <OoS> E.g. Geo, Tag, hCard which I think I've implemented correctly
  253. [21:31:01] <tantek> hCard also has a profile URL
  254. [21:31:14] <OoS> Okay, I'd better fix that
  255. [21:31:17] <tantek> which also defines the vocabulary for "geo" and "adr"
  256. [21:32:09] <hober> plain*
  257. [21:32:12] <OoS> I don't really like referencing external stuff unless it's required :-(
  258. [21:33:26] <OoS> Does Technorati list ordinary webpages with rel-tag?
  259. [21:36:06] <kingryan> OoS: no
  260. [21:37:55] <OoS> Is there any point me using rel-tag on an ordinary webpage then?
  261. [21:38:42] <hober> Sure!
  262. [21:40:49] <OoS> I've added them to an image gallery / slideshow. The tag refers to the gallery page though, not the image. :-(
  263. [21:44:40] <OoS> Thanks for the help
  264. [21:44:42] * OoS (i=John@modem-2187.buffalo.dialup.pol.co.uk) Quit ("mov.i #1,1")
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  266. [21:45:28] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  267. [21:46:16] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@87-194-56-45.bethere.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  268. [21:46:16] <jibot> julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
  269. [21:57:00] <mkaply> tante, briansuda, kingryan
  270. [21:57:05] <mkaply> Anyone aroudn that doesn't liket his?
  271. [21:57:06] <mkaply> I think that microformats are a chicken and egg problem. Today web developers
  272. [21:57:06] <mkaply> don't necessarily see the usefulness of microformats, so they aren't using them.
  273. [21:57:06] <mkaply> We are seeing a lot "Web 2.0" sites, though, that are using them in anticipation
  274. [21:57:06] <mkaply> of cool features in the future. So we need sites to implement microformats so that
  275. [21:57:06] <mkaply> there will be cool tools that use them, and we need cool tools that use microformats
  276. [21:57:08] <mkaply> so that web developers will implement them.
  277. [21:57:12] <mkaply> Hopefully Operator is a step in the right direction.
  278. [21:57:16] <briansuda> yo
  279. [21:57:32] <mkaply> This is an answer to an interview question
  280. [21:57:36] <mkaply> What do you see as the key point where Microformats will cross the chasm
  281. [21:57:36] <mkaply> and become as mainstream as basic hyperlinking?
  282. [21:57:51] <kingryan> mkaply: I can't disagree with that
  283. [21:58:21] <mkaply> tantek was what I meant to say
  284. [21:59:10] <briansuda> i think the key point for MF to cross the chasm is when the truely scrach an inch... when there is benefit to the end-user
  285. [21:59:28] <briansuda> it is NOT tech for tech-sake, it is modeled after real-examples
  286. [21:59:51] <briansuda> there is already an existing based of people who can/should adopt/use/benefit from the data
  287. [22:00:46] <briansuda> i think some developers, like Dan Cerderholm didn't see the usefulness, but added them anyway, partly because it is also being a good net-citzen
  288. [22:01:11] <briansuda> why do people make valid pages when browser will read bad ones? they want to make everything a better place
  289. [22:01:47] <briansuda> Alex's presentation where he goes through all the modes of communication and the web...
  290. [22:02:18] <briansuda> first web like a newspaper, then web as the radio, then the web as a switchboard (all good metaphors)
  291. [22:04:23] <mkaply> I cleaned it up a little - http://pastebin.mozilla.org/202761
  292. [22:04:31] <mkaply> I cover the switchboard a little in another question.
  293. [22:06:42] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@last.fm/staff/wurstkind) Quit ("Schönen Tag noch!")
  294. [22:07:10] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  295. [22:08:44] <briansuda> cool, sounds good. When can we look forward to seeing the whole Q&A?
  296. [22:09:37] <mkaply> briansuda: I'm doing it as part of an interview for internetnews.com. You want to see it first? Make sure I don't say anything dumb? :)
  297. [22:10:28] <briansuda> no need to worry about that
  298. [22:10:44] <briansuda> you can always blame it on editors :) i do
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  305. [23:22:15] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=21492 * AndyMabbett * (+479) Move "Airfix" to problems (multiple issues)
  306. [23:23:31] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=21493 * AndyMabbett * (+6) Examples with some problems -
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