IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-09-19
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [00:25:50] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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[[irc-people]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=21481 * MattBowen * (+96) Added myself
- [02:11:40] <mfbot>
[[irc-people]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=21482 * MattBowen * (+1) Sorted myself
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- [03:15:52] <jibot>
jimbojw is Jim R. Wilson of http://jimbojw.com/
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- [03:16:22] <jimbojw>
jibot: you are the wind beneath my wings
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- [03:23:13] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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- [03:30:02] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [04:08:36] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [07:41:14] <jibot>
bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
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- [08:03:55] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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- [08:09:27] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [08:14:56] <jibot>
BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk ( 0000/ 0100 GMT)
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DanC_lap is DanC on his laptop.
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- [09:26:26] <mfbot>
[[press]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press&diff=0&oldid=21483 * ChristopheDucamp * (+357) added article published in ecommerce exhibition guide (Paris)
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- [09:30:52] <speedyop>
hello there
- [09:42:50] <bluesmoon>
hello speedyop
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- [10:57:27] <mfbot>
[[blog-description-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-description-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=21484 * TbcO9m * (+14449)
- [11:04:11] <mfbot>
[[blog-description-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-description-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=21485 * BenWard * (-14449) Reverted edit of TbcO9m, changed back to last version by Tantek
- [11:04:11] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * BenWard * (+0) blocked "User:TbcO9m" with an expiry time of indefinite: Spamtastic.
- [11:04:11] <bluesmoon>
fast
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- [11:04:11] <BenWard>
Why thank you ;)
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- [11:06:15] <bluesmoon>
:)
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- [12:09:05] <KillQuick>
hi
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- [12:18:16] <mfbot>
[[zen-garden]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=zen-garden&diff=0&oldid=21486 * ShawnDrew * (+140) Interested parties -
- [12:19:57] <mfbot>
[[zen-garden]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=zen-garden&diff=0&oldid=21487 * ShawnDrew * (-4) Interested parties -
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- [12:43:58] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [12:58:25] <jibot>
dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
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- [13:13:59] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=21488 * Richard Conyard * (+103) Examples To Act On -
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- [13:45:30] <surial>
So, I have some questions about hCard.
- [13:46:33] <surial>
This one, for example: http://richi.co.uk/blog/2005/12/structured-blogging.html
- [13:47:07] <surial>
uses 'title' all over the place. hKit parses those instead of the actual content, which is why hKit gets it wrong. It's my understand that you should only look at 'title' if it's an <abbr> tag and otherwise ignore it. Is this my mistake, the spec's mistake, or hKit's bug?
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- [14:01:29] <jibot>
jimbojw is Jim R. Wilson of http://jimbojw.com/
- [14:01:59] <jimbojw>
jibot: @--^-v---
- [14:06:48] <surial>
illustir: The swarthy seadogs in these waters don't be speakin' much aboot hKit bugs and hCard vagaries.
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- [14:34:32] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [14:40:41] <surial>
tantek: did you get some time to look at my email? Looking at a few more hCards in the wild, the situations I described turn out to be pretty rare, so I'm tempted to say they are all bad hCards, but, still.
- [14:41:08] <tantek>
surial, probably not - did you send to the microformats-discuss list?
- [14:41:19] <surial>
No, but I guess I'll do that next after I clean up the descriptions a bit.
- [14:41:24] <tantek>
or if it is about parsing, please send to microformats-dev
- [14:41:39] <surial>
one is definitely about parsing.
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- [15:30:26] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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- [15:34:52] <mfbot>
[[press]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press&diff=0&oldid=21489 * DanC * (+144) InternetNews.com on GRDDL and microformats
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- [15:55:47] <mfbot>
[[press]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press&diff=0&oldid=21490 * AndyMabbett * (+134) sort format and fix last addition
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- [16:25:41] <mfbot>
[[figure-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=figure-examples&diff=0&oldid=21491 * EdwardOConnor * (+670) Existing Practices - describe and link to my figure markup
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- [16:59:07] <mkaply>
surial: note that the telephones are wrong in that structured blogging site
- [16:59:30] <surial>
Yeah, I figured as much.
- [16:59:32] <mkaply>
reasonably common mistake. class=voice
- [16:59:35] <surial>
But hKit also botches everything else.
- [16:59:46] <surial>
Mostly because it sees 'title' attributes and is all over them eventhough they aren't on abbr tags.
- [17:00:11] <mkaply>
Ah.
- [17:00:18] <mkaply>
Yeah. I don't see why this person has title= everywhere
- [17:00:21] <mkaply>
but it should not be picking those up
- [17:00:23] <surial>
And another one which is more a confusing bit of hCard sepc itself...
- [17:00:28] <surial>
s/sepc/spec, is:
- [17:00:43] <surial>
<span class="org"><a class="url" href="FOOBAR">XYZZY</a></span>
- [17:00:47] <surial>
Should I be detecting org = XYZZY here?
- [17:01:17] <surial>
I definitely should for <A class="org url" href="FOOBAR">XYZZY</a>, and in that circumstance I do, but in the <span><a> situation, I currently don't.
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- [17:10:43] <jibot>
ddfreyne is Denis Defreyne and blogs at http://stoneship.org/.
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- [17:27:12] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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- [17:41:27] <mkaply>
surial: You should be grabbing the text content of the org
- [17:41:31] <mkaply>
So you should grab XYZZY
- [17:41:47] <mkaply>
What I do is just grab the textcontent of the class
- [17:41:54] <mkaply>
s/class/span
- [17:42:20] <surial>
I don't grab it because I'm current seeing the XYZZY bit as the (wrong) option for the url bit. If there was no class="url" on there I would grab it.
- [17:42:41] <surial>
It's a bit of a problem because it means I need to try all variations on the entire stack of open classes.
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- [17:46:39] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
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- [18:01:04] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [19:06:35] <jibot>
julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
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- [19:27:25] <jibot>
DanC_lap is DanC on his laptop.
- [19:43:50] <mkaply>
surial: You can look at my parser code and maybe glean some ideas from there
- [19:44:00] <surial>
Your parser =?
- [19:44:44] <surial>
ah, you wrote operator.
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- [20:39:48] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
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- [20:48:05] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [21:29:03] <OoS>
Do I really need to put this in my webpages if I'm using XFN? - <head profile="http://gmpg.org/xfn/11">
- [21:29:21] <tantek>
it's a SHOULD not a MUST
- [21:29:54] <OoS>
Thanks :-)
- [21:29:58] <hober>
N.B. RFC 2119's SHOULD is quite a bit stronger than the plan English "should"
- [21:30:11] <OoS>
I didn't notice anything similar for other Microformats
- [21:30:43] <OoS>
E.g. Geo, Tag, hCard which I think I've implemented correctly
- [21:31:01] <tantek>
hCard also has a profile URL
- [21:31:14] <OoS>
Okay, I'd better fix that
- [21:31:17] <tantek>
which also defines the vocabulary for "geo" and "adr"
- [21:32:09] <hober>
plain*
- [21:32:12] <OoS>
I don't really like referencing external stuff unless it's required :-(
- [21:33:26] <OoS>
Does Technorati list ordinary webpages with rel-tag?
- [21:36:06] <kingryan>
OoS: no
- [21:37:55] <OoS>
Is there any point me using rel-tag on an ordinary webpage then?
- [21:38:42] <hober>
Sure!
- [21:40:49] <OoS>
I've added them to an image gallery / slideshow. The tag refers to the gallery page though, not the image. :-(
- [21:44:40] <OoS>
Thanks for the help
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- [21:45:28] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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- [21:46:16] <jibot>
julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
- [21:57:00] <mkaply>
tante, briansuda, kingryan
- [21:57:05] <mkaply>
Anyone aroudn that doesn't liket his?
- [21:57:06] <mkaply>
I think that microformats are a chicken and egg problem. Today web developers
- [21:57:06] <mkaply>
don't necessarily see the usefulness of microformats, so they aren't using them.
- [21:57:06] <mkaply>
We are seeing a lot "Web 2.0" sites, though, that are using them in anticipation
- [21:57:06] <mkaply>
of cool features in the future. So we need sites to implement microformats so that
- [21:57:06] <mkaply>
there will be cool tools that use them, and we need cool tools that use microformats
- [21:57:08] <mkaply>
so that web developers will implement them.
- [21:57:12] <mkaply>
Hopefully Operator is a step in the right direction.
- [21:57:16] <briansuda>
yo
- [21:57:32] <mkaply>
This is an answer to an interview question
- [21:57:36] <mkaply>
What do you see as the key point where Microformats will cross the chasm
- [21:57:36] <mkaply>
and become as mainstream as basic hyperlinking?
- [21:57:51] <kingryan>
mkaply: I can't disagree with that
- [21:58:21] <mkaply>
tantek was what I meant to say
- [21:59:10] <briansuda>
i think the key point for MF to cross the chasm is when the truely scrach an inch... when there is benefit to the end-user
- [21:59:28] <briansuda>
it is NOT tech for tech-sake, it is modeled after real-examples
- [21:59:51] <briansuda>
there is already an existing based of people who can/should adopt/use/benefit from the data
- [22:00:46] <briansuda>
i think some developers, like Dan Cerderholm didn't see the usefulness, but added them anyway, partly because it is also being a good net-citzen
- [22:01:11] <briansuda>
why do people make valid pages when browser will read bad ones? they want to make everything a better place
- [22:01:47] <briansuda>
Alex's presentation where he goes through all the modes of communication and the web...
- [22:02:18] <briansuda>
first web like a newspaper, then web as the radio, then the web as a switchboard (all good metaphors)
- [22:04:23] <mkaply>
I cleaned it up a little - http://pastebin.mozilla.org/202761
- [22:04:31] <mkaply>
I cover the switchboard a little in another question.
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- [22:08:44] <briansuda>
cool, sounds good. When can we look forward to seeing the whole Q&A?
- [22:09:37] <mkaply>
briansuda: I'm doing it as part of an interview for internetnews.com. You want to see it first? Make sure I don't say anything dumb? :)
- [22:10:28] <briansuda>
no need to worry about that
- [22:10:44] <briansuda>
you can always blame it on editors :) i do
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- [23:22:15] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=21492 * AndyMabbett * (+479) Move "Airfix" to problems (multiple issues)
- [23:23:31] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=21493 * AndyMabbett * (+6) Examples with some problems -
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