IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-09-20
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [01:14:44] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [05:23:44] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [05:40:16] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [06:12:41] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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- [09:01:38] <jibot>
BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk ( 0000/ 0100 GMT)
- [09:11:02] <mfbot>
[[blog-description-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-description-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=21494 * FlqWwl * (+12785)
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- [09:12:09] <jibot>
julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
- [09:26:59] <mfbot>
[[blog-description-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-description-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=21495 * BenWard * (-12785) Reverted edit of FlqWwl, changed back to last version by BenWard
- [09:27:40] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * BenWard * (+0) blocked "User:FlqWwl" with an expiry time of indefinite: Filthy, dirty spammer.
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- [10:45:03] <jibot>
KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs & syllepses & his blog is at http://epeus.blogspot.com & he explains how to get Creators paid at http://mediagora.com & originally from London, UK & living in Willow Glen, San Jose, CA & is WikipediaWorthy & part of http://microformats.org & PST (UTC-8) & the Podfather & now credentialed as a social genius
- [10:47:18] <bluesmoon>
what are syllepses?
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- [11:48:00] <jibot>
bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
- [11:50:13] <mfbot>
[[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=21496 * AndyMabbett * (+100) Optimus
- [11:56:09] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=21497 * AndyMabbett * (-9634) page too long; splitting
- [12:00:51] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild-with-problems]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-examples-in-wild-with-problems * AndyMabbett * (+9551)
- [12:01:12] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild-with-problems]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild-with-problems&diff=0&oldid=21498 * AndyMabbett * (-5)
- [12:02:43] <mfbot>
[[Template:hcard-related-pages]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:hcard-related-pages&diff=0&oldid=21499 * AndyMabbett * (+86) hCard examples in the wild, with problems
- [12:03:54] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild-with-problems]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild-with-problems&diff=0&oldid=21500 * AndyMabbett * (+34) hcard-examples-in-wild
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- [12:16:55] <mfbot>
[[spellcheck]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=spellcheck&diff=0&oldid=21501 * AndyMabbett * (+9) optimus
- [12:17:56] <mfbot>
[[spellcheck]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=spellcheck&diff=0&oldid=21502 * AndyMabbett * (+89) subsequent changes
- [12:18:47] <mfbot>
[[spellcheck]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=spellcheck&diff=0&oldid=21503 * AndyMabbett * (-10) rm redundant enteries
- [12:19:33] <mfbot>
[[spellcheck]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=spellcheck&diff=0&oldid=21504 * AndyMabbett * (-29) fmt, rm comment
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[[twitter-nanoformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=twitter-nanoformats&diff=0&oldid=21505 * TekeTen * (+162) 2nanoformats (syntax:param) -
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- [13:15:08] <mfbot>
[[Talk:product-brainstorming]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:product-brainstorming * Mi5Bps * (+12830)
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[[page-last-modified-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=page-last-modified-examples&diff=0&oldid=21506 * By1N2x * (+13950)
- [13:16:50] <mfbot>
[[page-last-modified-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=page-last-modified-examples&diff=0&oldid=21507 * BenWard * (-13950) Reverted edit of By1N2x, changed back to last version by RobertBachmann
- [13:17:01] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * BenWard * (+0) deleted "Talk:product-brainstorming": Spam. No talk pages.
- [13:21:57] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * BenWard * (+0) blocked "User:By1N2x" with an expiry time of indefinte: Spammer.
- [13:23:05] <bluesmoon>
all hail BenWard
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- [13:57:42] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [13:58:44] <jibot>
jimbojw is Jim R. Wilson of http://jimbojw.com/
- [13:59:29] <jimbojw>
jibot: :*
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- [14:18:35] <jibot>
mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
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- [15:14:58] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [15:24:27] <tantek>
mkaply, i didn't see your comments regarding chicken/egg until later yesterday.
- [15:24:35] <tantek>
i think there may be some misconceptions there
- [15:25:02] <mkaply>
tantek: I still have time to change my words :)
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- [15:25:26] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
- [15:26:48] <tantek>
mkaply, are the qs from InternetNews . com ? I think I may have gotten the same queries
- [15:27:04] <mkaply>
tantek: yes
- [15:27:08] <tantek>
ah ok
- [15:27:14] <tantek>
then we might as well discuss here :)
- [15:27:40] <tantek>
new data formats in general have a chicken and egg problem, which is exactly as you describe, in general
- [15:28:14] <tantek>
however, there are a few things about microformats that make them quite different than new data formats in general that in many ways solve the chicken/egg problem
- [15:29:29] <tantek>
the first, and perhaps most important difference is that some microformats are immediately useful to *both* site developers (the people that publish microformats) and site users *today*.
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- [15:30:06] <tantek>
hCard and hCalendar for example are immediately useful, today, without needing any new tools, nor requiring the user to install or upgrade anything
- [15:30:37] <tantek>
Nearly every business has an "about" or "contact" page where they list their contact information.
- [15:30:53] <mkaply>
I don't disagree they are useful. But there are still people that say "what good is putting the microformat information in" "what can the user do with it"
- [15:31:38] <tantek>
By simple a) marking up this contact information with the hCard microformat, and b) providing a "Add to Address Book" link that uses a conversion service, a business immediately enables users to one-click add that contact information to their address books.
- [15:32:17] <mkaply>
True
- [15:32:28] <tantek>
this works *today*, not in some theoretical future. today.
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- [15:32:41] <tantek>
and has worked actually for over two years now.
- [15:32:56] <tantek>
This convenience of sharing contact information is not to be underestimated.
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- [15:34:09] <tantek>
Typical business depend financially very much so on repeat business (whether repeat webpage views/visits or purchases), and thus making it much more convenient/easier for users to add the business's contact info to their address books increases the amount of "repeats" that the business gets.
- [15:35:12] <tantek>
From a user's perspective, when they find a business they are interested in, say a restaurant for example, in the past they have had to copy/paste the name, the address (street, city, state, zip), phone number, and perhaps notes about the business one at a time into their addressbook or notepad etc.
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- [15:36:12] <tantek>
This can be quite time consuming, as it might involve dozen or more clicks, selects, menu commands etc. It's a non-trivial barrier to copying that information which the business *wants* the user to copy down so they come visit (perhaps again).
- [15:36:44] <tantek>
Anything time consuming presents a high barrier to entry to most users / consumers, and thus they don't do it very often.
- [15:38:07] <tantek>
However, when a user comes across a restaurant with contact information marked up in hCard and a visible "Add to Address Book" link, they just click that link (a single user actions, in contrast to perhaps dozens), and seemingly magically the restaurant's contact info is added to their addressbook, which then gets automatically sync'd with their phone or PDA and they can use when on the go.
- [15:38:21] <mkaply>
Good point. I'll amend my answer a little bit
- [15:38:30] <tantek>
A very similar user-scenario is also true with hCalendar.
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- [15:40:01] <tantek>
In the past, when a music group or band would publish their tour dates, a user had to copy and paste the information, when, what day, location, summary, etc. one at a time from the band's website into their calendar.
- [15:41:17] <tantek>
Today (and again, for actually over two years), a band can markup their upcoming concerts with hCalendar, and then add a "Add to Calendar" link that similarly uses a conversion service, and allows users to one-click add a band's concert dates to their calendar.
- [15:42:21] <tantek>
Thus again, what might have taken the user dozens of user actions to copy the concert information (which again, the band *wants* the user to copy down, because they want the users to go to their concerts!), now takes only one click by the user.
- [15:42:35] <tantek>
With hCalendar, there is an additional advantage though, over the past.
- [15:44:09] <tantek>
That same band can actually add a "Subscribe to our concert events" link to their site as well, which enables users to not just one time copy the current concert schedule into their calendars, but to *subscribe* to the band's concert schedule in their calendars so that if and when the band's tour dates change (which often happens), the user's calendar automatically gets the updated information.
- [15:45:05] <tantek>
In essence, such a subscription forms a relationships between the business and the user, e.g. a band and their fans), and helps the fans keep up with the band.
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- [15:46:16] <tantek>
So popping back up a level, this is just the FIRST of three reasons why microformats in many ways has solved the chicken/egg problem that data formats in general have.
- [15:46:28] <tantek>
The second reason is adapting to current behavior.
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- [15:47:02] <tantek>
Modern web designers have been using semantic (that is, meaningful, as opposed to purely presentational) class names in their markup of their web sites for many years.
- [15:47:52] <tantek>
microformats takes advantage of this existing behavior, and essentially provides some standard conventions/suggestions for what class names to use when marking up certain types of things such as people, events, organizations, reviews, etc.
- [15:48:58] <tantek>
Since modern web designers and information architects already spend the time to figure out what semantic class names to use for all the different parts of a site, microformats actually make their job *easier* by providing a standard set to use, rather than having to figure out what class names to use.
- [15:49:27] <tantek>
Thus microformats takes an existing good practice in the web design and information architecture community and makes it *easier*.
- [15:50:07] <tantek>
Anytime you provide a way for someone to make their job easier, even a little, they're likely to do it.
- [15:50:20] <tantek>
THIRD, curiosity is sufficient for adoption.
- [15:50:47] <tantek>
By this point a most web developers have heard about microformats and are at least curious about them.
- [15:51:07] <tantek>
People spend time exploring their curiosity. It's just a natural aspect of being human.
- [15:51:47] <tantek>
With microformats, we have literally made it so easy to *try* adding microformats, that more often than not, simply a web developer being curious and trying microformats in their code is sufficient for them to support it.
- [15:52:43] <tantek>
The key here is that it takes so little time (in most cases, a few minutes) for a web developer or designer to add microformats to their code, that just the motivation and energy of being curious is sufficient for the web developer to spend those few minutes trying, and the succeeding with adding microformats to their HTML.
- [15:54:17] * ddfreyne (n=ddfreyne@unaffiliated/ddfreyne) has joined #microformats
- [15:54:17] <jibot>
ddfreyne is Denis Defreyne and blogs at http://stoneship.org/.
- [15:56:13] <tantek>
mkaply, there are many more reasons, like web sites already have incentive to provide APIs, and microformats provide the quickest/fastest way to provide an API for the content they publish etc.
- [15:56:47] <tantek>
and microformats are also benefitting from the publisher/tool feedback loop.
- [15:57:20] <tantek>
Since publishers already have sufficient incentive to publish microformats, and they are, as is clearly demonstrated by our "Examples in the wild" pages, there are now hundreds of millions of pieces of microformatted information out there.
- [15:57:57] <tantek>
Thus tool makers have a sufficient base of data and incentive to build tools to make even better use of those microformats, and are building such tools. Operator is a perfect example of that, as is the forthcoming Firefox 3.
- [15:58:20] <tantek>
Every month (sometimes every week) someone launches a new tool or open source library that uses microformats.
- [15:58:36] <tantek>
Last month is was open source social network portability code and services from Plaxo and Pownce.
- [15:58:48] <tantek>
This month we already have a microformat parsing service called Optimus.
- [15:59:48] <mkaply>
So what do you think will make microformats as ubiquitous as hyperlinking?
- [16:03:22] <tantek>
I think the emergence of GUI/WYSIWYG editors that support creating microformats for people, events, etc. just as they support creating hyperlinks, will provide that tipping point.
- [16:03:52] <tantek>
Nearly every blog and wiki editing tool/service has some form of button bar for users to create headings, links etc.
- [16:05:05] <tantek>
If you look at most blogs, people are nearly always blogging about people, events etc., and imagine if your blogging tool had a little dropdown menu to insert a reference to someone in your address book, or an event from your calendar.
- [16:05:20] <tantek>
a single menu click like that would be easier than typing out people and event's names and info into your blog post, and thus you'd use it.
- [16:06:31] <tantek>
Once adding a microformat to your blog post or wiki is as easy as adding a hyperlink, microformats will be as ubiquitous as hyperlinks, or as much as they can be, as most microformats themselves contain hyperlinks.
- [16:07:03] * vant (n=vant@p4225-ipbf3508marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
- [16:09:10] <tantek>
There are some such editors now, as plugins, e.g. for Adobe (formerly Macromedia) Dreamweaver, Drew McClellan created a plugin that enables users to easily add microformats to their HTML.
- [16:11:17] * mattis1 (n=mattis^@p54BD74A0.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #microformats
- [16:14:55] <hober>
IIRC, the Eventful plugin for WLW produces hCalendar, f.ex.
- [16:15:07] <tantek>
WLW?
- [16:16:10] <hober>
windows live writer, microsoft's desktop blogging client thingy
- [16:17:35] <mkaply>
It even supports Live Clipboard! :)
- [16:17:41] <hober>
heh
- [16:18:16] <hober>
tantek: http://tinyurl.com/38r888
- [16:18:26] <tantek>
ah right!
- [16:18:38] <tantek>
hober, did you document that on the "implementations" page?
- [16:18:44] <hober>
checking...
- [16:20:32] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-implementations&diff=0&oldid=21508 * EdwardOConnor * (+179) Desktop Authoring Tools - WLW
- [16:21:12] <tantek>
awesome
- [16:21:54] <bluesmoon>
having editors that can insert microformats like they do hyperlinks isn't sufficient to get people to use them.
- [16:21:57] <bluesmoon>
what you need
- [16:22:13] <bluesmoon>
is style rules that people can include into their pages to render those microformats in cool ways
- [16:25:40] <mkaply>
bluesmoon: read John Allsopp's book :)
- [16:25:55] <mkaply>
It's got as much CSS for microformats as it does microformats
- [16:26:50] <tantek>
bluesmoon, users don't care about style rules
- [16:27:06] <tantek>
users care about simply entering content into their blogs and wikis etc.
- [16:27:12] <bluesmoon>
they don't care about style rules, but they do care that their pages look nice
- [16:27:49] <tantek>
If a user can simple pick a friend's name from a drop down list and have it inserted (along with a link to their friend's site), they'll use that rather than manually type their friend's name and URL.
- [16:27:53] <tantek>
Same with events.
- [16:28:04] <bluesmoon>
k
- [16:28:08] * mattis^ (n=mattis^@p54BD612E.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Success)
- [16:28:42] <bluesmoon>
but what if that name isn't in a list?
- [16:31:19] <tantek>
then you enter it once, it goes into your address book, and thus into the list
- [16:31:46] * KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@c-76-102-254-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
- [16:31:52] <tantek>
or you add it to your address book from wherever you found the name
- [16:32:19] <tantek>
since it's more and more likely that the name itself is marked up with hCard
- [16:32:37] <tantek>
some browsers may even auto-detect the hCards of names on pages you visit and keep them in a "recent names" cache
- [16:32:59] <tantek>
which they may use in such lists, or at least to "auto-complete" entry of names
- [16:36:29] * jimbojw (n=chatzill@c-67-162-178-189.hsd1.mo.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
- [16:36:30] <jibot>
jimbojw is Jim R. Wilson of http://jimbojw.com/
- [16:42:13] <tantek>
hober, could you add the WLW implementation to a new "Microsoft" section here: http://microformats.org/wiki/implementations
- [16:42:23] <tantek>
(also add I mean, thanks! :) )
- [16:42:34] <bluesmoon>
hmm
- [16:43:00] * JMulder (n=me@ip4da10ac9.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #microformats
- [16:43:28] <bluesmoon>
something like xx toolbar importing hCards into xx addressbook, for certain values of xx
- [16:45:21] <hober>
tantek: sure
- [16:46:34] <mfbot>
[[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=21509 * EdwardOConnor * (-21) EVDB - Eventful no longer uses the EVDB name at all
- [16:47:43] * tback (n=tback@dialin-212-144-040-234.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (No route to host)
- [16:47:50] <mfbot>
[[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=21510 * EdwardOConnor * (+79) Companies / Developers / Organizations - +Microsoft
- [16:49:16] <mfbot>
[[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=21511 * EdwardOConnor * (+167) Applications / Plugins / Services / Tools - WLW
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- [17:02:16] <tantek>
thanks hober!
- [17:02:25] * tantek just came across http://creativecommons.org/licenses/publicdomain/
- [17:02:50] <hober>
np
- [17:02:57] <tantek>
note especially the list of translations at the top
- [17:03:13] <tantek>
this is perhaps the best public domain dedication resource I have found on the Web
- [17:03:45] <tantek>
What do people think about making all contributions to the microformats wiki required public domain contributions, just as Wikipedia requires GFDL contributions?
- [17:04:31] <hober>
I think that would be great
- [17:05:05] <tantek>
so many folks have already made the voluntary public domain declaration that I think in practice this wouldn't make much of a difference for the most frequent authors on the wiki
- [17:12:28] <tantek>
ooh look, new Digg profiles and friends lists support hCard! http://digg.com/users/laughingsquid http://digg.com/users/laughingsquid/friends/view
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- [17:28:21] * MAKACOW (i=semwhois@200-100-147-126.dial-up.telesp.net.br) Quit ()
- [17:28:29] <hober>
not xfn-ified :(
- [17:28:42] <tantek>
Daniel Burka is working on it
- [17:31:35] <madness>
I have some questions about hAtom
- [17:32:14] * jimbojw_ (n=chatzill@c-67-162-178-189.hsd1.mo.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
- [17:32:14] <hober>
madness: please ask them!
- [17:32:18] * tantek_ (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
- [17:32:21] <madness>
it states that a hcard for the author is compulsory in the spec
- [17:32:43] * jimbojw (n=chatzill@c-67-162-178-189.hsd1.mo.comcast.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
- [17:32:51] * jimbojw_ is now known as jimbojw
- [17:32:53] <madness>
the data that I'm trying to present as hAtom (I'm writing an RSS/Atom reader) doesn't always come with that information
- [17:33:24] <madness>
I'm thinking about using the title of the feed itself and the link there in the hCard
- [17:33:31] <tantek_>
i think i was offline for a few minutes there
- [17:33:36] <hober>
hmm.
- [17:33:51] <madness>
hey tantek - we met a couple of weeks ago at barcamp brighton :)
- [17:33:54] <hober>
madness: at least in the case of Atom feeds, I think you should always be able to find authorship datas
- [17:33:56] <hober>
err, data
- [17:34:13] <hober>
either via atom:entry/atom:author, or defaulting to atom:feed/atom:author
- [17:34:28] <madness>
hober: what if I have invalid data ?
- [17:34:36] <tantek_>
madness, could you add yourself to http://microformats.org/wiki/irc-people
- [17:34:45] <madness>
hober: I'd rather handle it and do something sane than refuse to deal with it
- [17:34:52] <hober>
sure, of course
- [17:34:57] <madness>
tantek_: doing ! :)
- [17:35:07] <tantek_>
:)
- [17:35:28] <madness>
hober: is the course of action I was considering the best one ?
- [17:35:44] <hober>
hmm.
- [17:35:55] <hober>
Something along those lines, maybe
- [17:36:05] <hober>
How about something like this:
- [17:36:39] <hober>
<address class="vcard"><a href="{feed-href}" class="fn org url">{feed-name}</a></address>
- [17:37:01] <hober>
basically, treat the site-with-feed-with-no-authorship-info as an organization
- [17:37:10] <hober>
you know the organization's name & url
- [17:37:13] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit ()
- [17:38:09] <mfbot>
[[irc-people]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=21512 * MarkNg * (+91)
- [17:38:40] <madness>
hober: cool - that's along the same lines as what I was thinking, but more specific
- [17:39:25] <madness>
tantek_: done ;)
- [17:40:40] <mfbot>
[[User:MarkNg]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:MarkNg * MarkNg * (+24)
- [17:48:16] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [17:48:58] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-a28c6b7531f3097c) has joined #microformats
- [17:48:58] <jibot>
KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs & syllepses & his blog is at http://epeus.blogspot.com & he explains how to get Creators paid at http://mediagora.com & originally from London, UK & living in Willow Glen, San Jose, CA & is WikipediaWorthy & part of http://microformats.org & PST (UTC-8) & the Podfather & now credentialed as a social genius
- [17:54:33] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
- [17:54:33] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [17:55:40] * BenWard (i=BenWard@nat/yahoo/x-112e51276d671f7a) Quit ("Fades out again…")
- [18:03:31] <tantek>
The new Google Sharing user profiles support hCard: http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2007/09/google-shared-stuff.html
- [18:09:45] <madness>
by my searching, it appears there is no way to validate hatom ?
- [18:10:50] <bewest>
wouldn't it be more important to validate the atom produced as the result of a transform?
- [18:11:14] <bewest>
tantek: hmm that looks kind of neat
- [18:13:43] <bewest>
where's the hcard though?
- [18:13:51] <bewest>
I don't see one on http://www.google.com/s2/sharing/stuff?user=109581870574956225297
- [18:14:03] <tantek>
it's in the frame in the top right corner
- [18:14:56] * tantek_ (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [18:15:01] <bewest>
ah.... the frame tricked me
- [18:15:58] <mfbot>
[[implementations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=21513 * Tantek * (+65) added some intrawiki links
- [18:19:32] * bewest roots around looking for a way to edit his profile
- [18:20:58] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@last.fm/staff/wurstkind) Quit ("Schönen Tag noch!")
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- [18:39:25] * daggi (n=chrisada@82-45-160-216.cable.ubr05.hari.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit ()
- [18:39:33] <KevinMarks>
eh?
- [18:39:42] <KevinMarks>
it should have an edit button on
- [18:40:04] <KevinMarks>
you can't edit *mine*
- [18:40:19] * jimbojw (n=chatzill@c-67-162-178-189.hsd1.mo.comcast.net) has left #microformats
- [18:40:35] <tantek>
KevinMarks, I think this section needs some updating: http://microformats.org/wiki/implementations#Google
- [18:40:58] <hober>
I added some urls during an 'edit profile' session, saved, but upon a subsequent profile edit, they disappeared. :(
- [18:41:51] <bewest>
KevinMarks: I don't see an edit button
- [18:41:53] <hober>
(Though I'm currently unable to reproduce that.)
- [18:42:02] <bewest>
I'm looking at my profile as I see it
- [18:42:17] <bewest>
there's a "report this profile" link
- [18:42:25] <KevinMarks>
and you are logged into google?
- [18:42:42] <bewest>
yeah, my email address is in the upper right with a "log out" link next to it
- [18:43:03] <KevinMarks>
hm
- [18:43:43] <KevinMarks>
there should be an 'edit this profile' button between the links and the 'about xxx'
- [18:45:01] <bewest>
I don't see any 'about xxx'
- [18:45:37] <bewest>
are there other services I have to be enrolled in for this to work?
- [18:45:49] <bewest>
I've never used the bookmarks feature
- [18:45:54] <hober>
I'm surprised that the default syndication format is RSS, given Google's seemingly big commitment to Atom & APP
- [18:46:25] <bewest>
oh, I see Google Profile for:
- [18:46:33] <bewest>
then my nickname with a blank picture
- [18:46:53] <bewest>
then subscribe to updates on this page: [google] [rss]
- [18:54:16] <KevinMarks>
that sounds like the logged out view
- [18:54:18] <KevinMarks>
odd
- [18:54:35] <KevinMarks>
google is large, it contains multitudes
- [18:55:44] <bewest>
KevinMarks: should I log out/log in or try something else?
- [18:56:02] <KevinMarks>
try that, yes
- [18:56:31] <bewest>
aha
- [18:56:34] <bewest>
now there's a form for me to edit
- [18:56:37] <KevinMarks>
hm
- [18:56:49] <KevinMarks>
maybe the iframe was somehow missing the cookie
- [18:59:59] <bewest>
any chance of integrating openId? :-)
- [19:00:14] <bewest>
probably allowing relationships on links being recorded would be neat
- [19:01:38] * Hagfish (n=Ed@80.175.122.69) Quit ("Konversation terminated!")
- [19:06:11] <mfbot>
[[User talk:MarkNg]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User_talk:MarkNg * AndyMabbett * (+73) Welcome!
- [19:07:45] * WilleRaab (i=WilleRaa@89-253-85-3.customers.ownit.se) has joined #microformats
- [19:08:00] <KevinMarks>
integrating it how? To prove you own the links in your profile?
- [19:09:14] * Hagfish (n=Ed@80.175.122.69) has joined #microformats
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- [19:11:46] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
- [19:11:46] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
- [19:13:31] * bengee (n=bengee@ip150.209.reserved.ish.de) Quit ("Leaving")
- [19:19:37] <bewest>
perhaps
- [19:19:49] <bewest>
or to say that the owner of some other profile is a friend
- [19:20:47] <bewest>
oh, re openid... it'd be kind of neat if I could use google authentication to identify myself with other services using openid
- [19:20:57] <bewest>
and those services could then pick up my profile from this profile stuff
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- [19:42:01] <jibot>
jimbojw is Jim R. Wilson of http://jimbojw.com/
- [19:51:38] <mkaply>
I thought you were only supposed to have one <author> per page?
- [19:52:20] <kingryan>
mkaply: in what context?
- [19:52:38] * jimbojw (n=chatzill@c-67-162-178-189.hsd1.mo.comcast.net) has left #microformats
- [19:53:04] <mkaply>
kingryan: I thought <author> was the author of the page.
- [19:53:23] <kingryan>
are we talking about html?
- [19:53:28] <mkaply>
sorry, yes :)
- [19:53:40] * kingryan is confused because there is no author element in html
- [19:53:46] <mkaply>
sorry, address
- [19:53:48] <mkaply>
I'm losing my mind
- [19:54:25] <kingryan>
no, you can have many address elements on a page
- [19:54:40] <kingryan>
is identifies the person responible for a "page or part of a page"
- [19:54:46] <kingryan>
responsible*
- [19:55:11] <mkaply>
OK. got it.
- [19:56:21] <bewest>
heh... it's not "the author," it's "the person responsible"
- [19:57:23] <kingryan>
yes, somewhat ambigious
- [19:57:33] <kingryan>
though author is usually pretty close
- [19:58:03] <bewest>
in case they need to be sacked, I guess
- [20:09:47] <tantek>
"to supply contact information for a document or a major part of a document such as a form."
- [20:10:32] * tantek_ (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
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- [20:11:45] * tantek_ is now known as tantek
- [20:11:47] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [20:14:45] <tantek>
http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-faq#Should_I_use_ADDRESS_for_hCards
- [20:19:25] <tantek>
see also: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-brainstorming#Representative_hCard_discovery
- [20:20:53] <tantek>
in short <address> means *contact* for the page or part thereof. The contact may or may not be the same as the author of the page (who wrote it). The contact may or may not be same as the owner (who controls it). The contact may or may not be same as the person represented (who the page is about).
- [20:22:04] <KevinMarks>
ah
- [20:23:50] <KevinMarks>
why prefer logo to photo?
- [20:29:32] <tantek>
KevinMarks, I will trade answers for you adding all your good microformats work to http://microformats.org/wiki/implementations#Google which currently lacks all the goodness you've been doing in recent months! ;)
- [20:31:40] <KevinMarks>
heh
- [20:32:25] <tantek>
bbab (be back after brunch)
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- [21:09:32] <h3h>
is it just me or is the Live Clipboard JS implementation as retarded as I think it is?
- [21:10:35] <h3h>
I have to duplicate the microformat data that's already in the page to feed it to their JS constructor...
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- [21:34:57] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
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- [21:43:42] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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- [21:46:22] <mkaply>
h3h: Outrageously bad. And brain dead
- [21:46:41] <mkaply>
IT's just a horrible piece of code. When I messed around, I implemented Live Clipboard on an existing microformat (not using JS)
- [21:46:50] <mkaply>
then gave up and just put live clipboard in Operator
- [21:47:03] <h3h>
you don't happen to have that JS around, do you?
- [21:47:07] <h3h>
I was planning on doing just that
- [21:47:27] <mkaply>
No, it was a long time ago.
- [21:47:36] <mkaply>
Basically as long as you emulate their class names, you'll be OK.
- [21:47:43] <h3h>
the "docs" are hurting my head
- [21:47:45] <mkaply>
Use a DOM inspector to view the page and suck in their page structure.
- [21:48:00] <h3h>
I don't know if this architecture could have been anymore ridiculous for such a simple goal
- [21:48:10] <mkaply>
h3h: that's probably why it's not getting any adoption.
- [21:48:15] <mkaply>
eventful are the only folks that have done it
- [21:48:15] <h3h>
indeed
- [21:48:21] <h3h>
yeah, that's me :(
- [21:48:34] <h3h>
damn the corporate alliances
- [21:48:46] <briansuda>
didn't eventful break it too?
- [21:49:03] <h3h>
and the first time I implemented it was in about 14 minutes before a launch, hence the nasty duplication thing
- [21:49:09] <mkaply>
They dropped it in their relaunch
- [21:49:10] <h3h>
trying to do it right now...if there is a right
- [21:49:13] <mkaply>
So I assume you are redoing it?
- [21:49:15] <h3h>
yep
- [21:49:22] <mkaply>
Just tell folks to use Operator :)
- [21:49:26] <h3h>
we dropped it because it was a huge headache
- [21:49:36] <h3h>
but now business reasons are forcing it back in
- [21:49:41] <mkaply>
But of course the Windows Live Writer tie in requires it, right?
- [21:49:52] <h3h>
yeah. that's what I wanted to say, but I don't think the MSFT guys would be enthused with that answer
- [21:50:01] <mkaply>
they like Operator :)
- [21:50:14] <mkaply>
where in the UI are you going to add the scissors?
- [21:50:27] <h3h>
under "Save to calendar"
- [21:50:29] <briansuda>
What ever happened to Live Writter
- [21:50:47] <briansuda>
i downloaded it once, but i couldn"t play with it unless i added a blog end-point
- [21:50:55] <mkaply>
IT's still around,. They had a new beta a month or so ago I thin k
- [21:51:04] <briansuda>
i thought it supported APP (atom publishing protocol) but couldn"t find it
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- [21:52:53] <briansuda>
hm, i will have to look again
- [21:52:58] <mkaply>
h3h: it is doable.
- [21:53:04] <mkaply>
h3h: I can't find the code
- [21:53:21] <h3h>
yeah. I just have to wrap my head around this architecture
- [21:53:23] <mkaply>
h3h: I distinctly remember focusing on the DOM after the JS and then copying it
- [21:53:24] <h3h>
then bend it to my will
- [21:53:39] <mkaply>
just promise me you won't dupliicate the vcard
- [21:53:44] <h3h>
will not
- [21:53:51] <mkaply>
I hated that eventful used to have two vevents on every page
- [21:53:56] <h3h>
me too
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- [22:09:08] <MAKACOW>
do rel='generator and rel='designer' exist??
- [22:09:21] <MAKACOW>
sorry my bad english
- [22:09:24] <kingryan>
MAKACOW: rel=designer, yes
- [22:09:32] * MAKACOW is now known as MAKACOW-Brazil
- [22:09:39] <kingryan>
I haven't seen rel=generator, though there's a <meta> property for that
- [22:11:04] <MAKACOW-Brazil>
i see her -> http://onthetech.com/
- [22:11:19] <MAKACOW-Brazil>
in the footer template
- [22:24:49] <MAKACOW-Brazil>
47 results http://www.google.com/search?q=rel=%22generator%22
- [22:25:04] <MAKACOW-Brazil>
99% in wordpress themes
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- [22:26:21] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [22:26:39] <kingryan>
yes MAKACOW-Brazil, wordpress are they only ones who seem to use it
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- [22:45:49] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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- [23:36:34] <mfbot>
[[Talk:uid-examples]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:uid-examples * LhyAcc * (+13294)
- [23:51:01] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:uid-examples": spam
- [23:51:22] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) blocked "User:LhyAcc" with an expiry time of indefinite: spam
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