IRC Log for #microformats on 2008-03-10
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [06:09:56] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [07:58:21] <jibot>
madness is a freelance web developer from Bournemouth, Dorset, UK. His online home is at http://www.markng.co.uk/
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- [08:43:14] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [08:56:35] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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- [09:09:08] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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- [12:26:47] * ChanServ sets mode +o dglazkov
- [12:26:47] <jibot>
dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
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- [14:00:52] <mfbot>
[[votelinks]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=votelinks&diff=0&oldid=26193 * DftXdc * (+12035)
- [14:05:28] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) blocked "User:WvtGmm" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
- [14:05:45] <mfbot>
[[VoteLinksFAQ]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=VoteLinksFAQ&diff=0&oldid=26194 * ChristopheDucamp * (-11997) restitution de la dernière modification de ChristopheDucamp
- [14:06:30] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) blocked "User:ZrzI7w" with an expiry time of infinte: spam
- [14:06:46] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) blocked "User:DftXdc" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
- [14:09:32] <mfbot>
[[mercurial-quick-start]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mercurial-quick-start&diff=0&oldid=26195 * ChristopheDucamp * (-11737) restitution de la dernière modification de RyanKing
- [14:09:48] <mfbot>
[[votelinks]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=votelinks&diff=0&oldid=26196 * ChristopheDucamp * (-12035) restitution de la dernière modification de Tantek
- [14:11:32] * levitation[A] (n=levitati@noorus.aklubi.ee) Quit (SendQ exceeded)
- [14:15:44] <mfbot>
[[hresume-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=26197 * Dreamisle * (+135) added hresume to my page
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- [14:22:56] <mfbot>
[[Talk:firefox-extensions]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:firefox-extensions * MkaCpl * (+12094)
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- [14:25:00] <jibot>
jimbojw is Jim R. Wilson of http://jimbojw.com/
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- [14:25:26] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
- [14:25:57] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=26198 * ChristopheDucamp * (+405) [fr:sync'd with english version]
- [14:26:33] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) blocked "User:MkaCpl" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
- [14:26:54] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) deleted "Talk:firefox-extensions": spam
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- [15:24:19] <jibot>
ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com and a neogeographer and is co-founder of Mapufacture
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- [16:09:03] * ChanServ sets mode +o Phae
- [16:09:03] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
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- [16:16:41] <mfbot>
[[events/2008-03-10-sxsw-portability-panel]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2008-03-10-sxsw-portability-panel&diff=0&oldid=26199 * Phae * (+42) attendees -
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- [16:23:03] <mfbot>
[[events/2008-03-10-sxsw-portability-panel]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2008-03-10-sxsw-portability-panel&diff=0&oldid=26200 * DavidMead * (+43) attendees -
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- [16:24:29] <mfbot>
[[events/2008-03-10-sxsw-portability-panel]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2008-03-10-sxsw-portability-panel&diff=0&oldid=26201 * DavidMead * (-6) attendees -
- [16:25:55] <mfbot>
[[events/2008-03-10-sxsw-portability-panel]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2008-03-10-sxsw-portability-panel&diff=0&oldid=26202 * DavidMead * (+27) attendees -
- [16:26:21] <mfbot>
[[events/2008-03-10-sxsw-portability-panel]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2008-03-10-sxsw-portability-panel&diff=0&oldid=26203 * JasonGarber * (+79) attendees -
- [16:28:40] * mkaply (n=mkaply@198.214.235.188) has joined #microformats
- [16:28:40] <jibot>
mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
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- [16:46:49] <mfbot>
[[events/2008-03-10-sxsw-portability-panel]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2008-03-10-sxsw-portability-panel&diff=0&oldid=26204 * GlennJones * (+42)
- [16:47:25] <mfbot>
[[User:JojaBa]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:JojaBa&diff=0&oldid=26205 * JojaBa * (+22) Informations sur un article - ajout de rel et suppression de hatom
- [16:49:26] <mfbot>
[[User:JojaBa]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:JojaBa&diff=0&oldid=26206 * JojaBa * (+1329) Informations sur un article -
- [16:53:12] <mfbot>
[[User:JojaBa]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:JojaBa&diff=0&oldid=26207 * JojaBa * (+101) Test en nature -
- [16:55:19] <mfbot>
[[User:JojaBa]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:JojaBa&diff=0&oldid=26208 * JojaBa * (-1428) Test en nature -
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- [16:58:32] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
- [16:58:32] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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- [17:06:55] * ChanServ sets mode +o Phae
- [17:06:55] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
- [17:07:54] <mkaply>
Phae: hey
- [17:08:03] <Phae>
hey mike
- [17:08:29] <Phae>
you coming by today? i'm just about to update the wiki with an informal mf meetup at 6:05pm that we're goign to have
- [17:08:51] * BenWard (n=BenWard@198.214.235.188) has joined #microformats
- [17:08:51] * ChanServ sets mode +o BenWard
- [17:08:51] <jibot>
BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk ( 0000/ 0100 GMT)
- [17:09:07] <mkaply>
I should be be able to drop by.
- [17:09:18] <mkaply>
Phae: you going to the PMOG session today?
- [17:09:49] <Phae>
yeah, i was planning to
- [17:10:15] <mkaply>
It's the same as browser wars unfortuantely - I was going to drop in and meet Justin. I'll probably see you there
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- [17:11:36] <mfbot>
[[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=26209 * Phae * (+236) Upcoming -
- [17:11:41] <Phae>
okay
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- [17:14:57] <mfbot>
[[species]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species&diff=0&oldid=26210 * TarelBasor * (+16466) caalcc4tal
- [17:15:33] <illustir>
?def illustir is the creator of hAvatar and related
- [17:15:33] <jibot>
illustir is the creator of hAvatar and related
- [17:17:18] <illustir>
?def illustir creates stuff for the web and http://tipit.to
- [17:17:18] <jibot>
Nobody has defined illustir creates stuff for the web and http://tipit.to yet
- [17:17:32] <illustir>
?forget illustir creates stuff for the web and http://tipit.to
- [17:17:33] <jibot>
I need at least 3 words with an 'is' in the middle
- [17:18:04] <illustir>
?def illustir is at http://alper.nl and builds http://tipit.to
- [17:18:05] <jibot>
illustir is the creator of hAvatar and related and at http://alper.nl and builds http://tipit.to
- [17:18:49] <mfbot>
[[events/2008-03-11-sxsw-building-blocks]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2008-03-11-sxsw-building-blocks * Phae * (+2169)
- [17:19:06] <Phae>
http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2008-03-11-sxsw-building-blocks please come by!
- [17:19:35] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) blocked "User:TarelBasor" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
- [17:19:46] <mfbot>
[[species]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species&diff=0&oldid=26211 * Brian * (-16466) Reverted edit of TarelBasor, changed back to last version by PeterR
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- [17:21:17] <Phae>
mkaply: ben and i are sat in the corridor outside 19A at the moment, by the way
- [17:21:35] <mkaply>
19A - what lfoor id that?
- [17:21:43] <Phae>
4th
- [17:21:48] <mkaply>
ok. Be there in a sec
- [17:21:49] <Phae>
well, fake 4th. area 4
- [17:24:07] <mfbot>
[[events/2008-03-11-sxsw-building-blocks]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2008-03-11-sxsw-building-blocks&diff=0&oldid=26212 * Phae * (+0)
- [17:25:13] <mfbot>
[[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=26213 * Phae * (+0) Upcoming -
- [17:25:35] <mfbot>
[[events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks * Phae * (+2169)
- [17:25:53] <Phae>
i put the date in wrong
- [17:25:53] * ChrisSaa1 (n=Uncalfes@198.214.235.188) has joined #microformats
- [17:25:55] <Phae>
i'm so dumb
- [17:25:56] <Phae>
http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks
- [17:26:01] <Phae>
TODAY, 6:05pm
- [17:28:36] <mfbot>
[[events/2008-03-11-sxsw-building-blocks]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2008-03-11-sxsw-building-blocks&diff=0&oldid=26214 * Phae * (-2119)
- [17:29:02] <mfbot>
[[events/2008-03-11-sxsw-building-blocks]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2008-03-11-sxsw-building-blocks&diff=0&oldid=26215 * Phae * (+2)
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- [17:35:38] <mfbot>
[[ThisWeek/2008-03-10]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/ThisWeek/2008-03-10 * BenWard * (+1066) Created draft page for This Week in Microformats
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- [18:01:07] <jibot>
drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer at http://edgeofmyseat.com
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- [18:37:00] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [18:38:12] <jibot>
tommorris is a semantic web geek (with a philosophy degree, naturally), lives in East Sussex, UK, is something of a strange quark (strangeness value: -1) and blogs at http://tommorris.org
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- [18:53:20] <jibot>
ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com and a neogeographer and is co-founder of Mapufacture
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- [18:57:55] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
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- [19:00:29] <jibot>
BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk ( 0000/ 0100 GMT)
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- [19:10:02] <jibot>
mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
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- [19:44:58] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
- [19:50:40] <mfbot>
[[ThisWeek/2008-03-10]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=ThisWeek/2008-03-10&diff=0&oldid=26216 * BenWard * (+168) Face-to-Face -
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- [19:54:28] <jibot>
ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com and a neogeographer and is co-founder of Mapufacture
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- [20:30:26] <mfbot>
[[events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks&diff=0&oldid=26217 * Steve Ganz * (+34)
- [20:30:52] <mfbot>
[[events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks&diff=0&oldid=26218 * Steve Ganz * (-1) attendees -
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- [21:01:47] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
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- [21:07:59] <jibot>
BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk ( 0000/ 0100 GMT)
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- [21:09:33] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [21:12:30] <tantek>
greetings
- [21:14:03] <mfbot>
[[events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks&diff=0&oldid=26219 * Tantek * (+152) more unique tags, sorted names
- [21:14:35] <tantek>
microformats community meetup today at 6:05pm at the Lego pit at SXSW: http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks
- [21:19:19] <mfbot>
[[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=26220 * Tantek * (+5) changed URL to upcoming event URL
- [21:23:02] <ianloic>
stupid sxsw
- [21:23:14] <ianloic>
why do I have to come to work and be sober?
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- [21:25:56] <jibot>
ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com and a neogeographer and is co-founder of Mapufacture
- [21:26:27] <mfbot>
[[events/2008sxswmeetup]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2008sxswmeetup * Tantek * (+52)
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- [21:34:04] <mfbot>
[[events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks&diff=0&oldid=26221 * Tantek * (+180) add upcoming, pownce URLs, upcoming tag
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- [21:37:17] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
- [21:39:15] <mfbot>
[[events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks&diff=0&oldid=26222 * Phae * (-58) attendees -
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[[events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks&diff=0&oldid=26223 * GlennJones * (+34) attendees -
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[[events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks&diff=0&oldid=26224 * SylvainCarle * (+32) attendees -
- [21:48:40] <mfbot>
[[User:SylvainCarle]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:SylvainCarle&diff=0&oldid=26225 * SylvainCarle * (+1)
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- [21:52:25] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [21:57:47] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [22:02:40] <jibot>
pjkix is PJ Khalil a Web Developer in SF and can be found online at http://pjkix.com
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- [22:03:25] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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- [22:11:52] <drewinthehead>
greetings
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- [22:13:28] <mfbot>
[[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=26226 * Tantek * (+11) update current/past events
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- [22:16:29] <mfbot>
[[events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks&diff=0&oldid=26227 * Tantek * (+38) link to container event
- [22:16:33] * illustir (n=alper@s55912056.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #microformats
- [22:16:33] <jibot>
illustir is the creator of hAvatar and related and at http://alper.nl and builds http://tipit.to
- [22:17:02] * KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@198.214.235.188) has joined #microformats
- [22:17:14] <KevinMarks>
The Social Cloud
- [22:17:16] <KevinMarks>
:D
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- [22:17:49] * adinalevin (n=adinalev@198.214.235.189) has joined #microformats
- [22:17:49] <AceT>
google loves clouds :p
- [22:18:07] * adinalevin is now known as alevin
- [22:18:09] <drewinthehead>
sooner clouds than graphs
- [22:18:20] <identitywoman>
is Kevin talking?
- [22:19:04] * singpolyma (n=singpoly@bas8-kitchener06-1242386583.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #microformats
- [22:19:06] <AceT>
good question, I think i saw an opensocial thing?
- [22:19:27] * DanC (n=connolly@198.214.235.189) has joined #microformats
- [22:19:32] <alevin>
keth
- [22:19:57] * tantek is wondering how do we document some of the themes brought up so far (which AFAIK have been brought up many times before) so we can move forward on discussions rather than rehashing?
- [22:20:01] <KevinMarks>
Hi there
- [22:20:14] <alevin>
"teaching users how to be phished"
- [22:20:25] <KevinMarks>
I'm nto talking, it's joe smarr, recordon, adactio, leslie and chris m
- [22:21:20] <KevinMarks>
please use the new gmail contacts APi for this in future
- [22:21:23] <alevin>
smarr: slurping data from address book is not the greatest way to share friends
- [22:21:31] <alevin>
says the plaxo guy
- [22:21:35] * brianoberkirch (n=brianobe@adsl-065-005-209-171.sip.msy.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
- [22:21:56] <brianoberkirch>
I hear the PSN panel is going well
- [22:22:01] <AceT>
the level of information and adoption is too fractured to start from anything but the relative beginning at major conferences
- [22:22:26] <alevin>
at the beginning, a lot about reducing friction
- [22:22:39] <alevin>
from advocates of reducing friction
- [22:22:50] <AceT>
but maybe smaller more specific panels related to adoption/pitfalls?
- [22:23:08] <KevinMarks>
mattb got it implemented within 6 hours, sent in bug report (had to know users gmail), which google fixed for him within 24 hours and then he deployed it with no need to enter gmail address at all
- [22:23:11] <KevinMarks>
he's a star
- [22:23:22] <AceT>
I liked the critical look at openid (more the idea than the panel)
- [22:23:40] * alevin thinks some friction is good
- [22:24:09] <alevin>
don't use hcard, oauth, openid in user instructions
- [22:24:14] <alevin>
says leslie c
- [22:24:30] <tantek>
"Rather than create another profile, why not start with one you already have?" -Leslie
- [22:24:40] <alevin>
someone on the panel said "what about parents"
- [22:24:44] <KevinMarks>
have you seen niall's 'which sites have they visited' hack for choosing which to show them?
- [22:24:51] <alevin>
do parents and children want transparency to each others lives???
- [22:24:59] <tantek>
Kevinmarks - URL?
- [22:25:14] <KevinMarks>
we need rigourously defined areas of doubt and uncertainty, alevin?
- [22:25:32] <tantek>
alevin, - that's an orthogonal social problem that already exists, even in silos like Facebook.
- [22:25:37] <KevinMarks>
http://www.niallkennedy.com/blog/2008/02/browser-history-sniff.html
- [22:26:03] <tantek>
having formats and protocols will encourage/enable user interfaces that allow people to consolidate/separate explicitly.
- [22:26:15] <alevin>
heh. leslie mentions the social pattern where you change networks to change friends
- [22:26:22] <alevin>
like moving cities to change friends
- [22:26:36] <KevinMarks>
like the "I forgot my password" gambit
- [22:27:50] <adactio>
Everyone having fun? :-)
- [22:28:12] <AceT>
this is a problem wth pownce's importing
- [22:28:19] * madness (n=mng@client-86-31-38-96.leed.adsl.virgin.net) has joined #microformats
- [22:28:19] <jibot>
madness is a freelance web developer from Bournemouth, Dorset, UK. His online home is at http://www.markng.co.uk/
- [22:29:11] <KevinMarks>
http://code.google.com/apis/socialgraph/
- [22:29:39] <tantek>
Joseph is explaining XFN rel="me" with Twitter example
- [22:29:39] <tantek>
and now Social Graph API
- [22:29:39] <tantek>
(folks at the session IRL, feel free to help take notes here in the channel!)
- [22:29:40] <alevin>
"it doesn't have to be public to be portable"
- [22:29:55] <KevinMarks>
contacts api http://code.google.com/apis/contacts/
- [22:30:33] * pnutt80 (n=Phillip@p54BEBBC3.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #microformats
- [22:30:37] <alevin>
you should be able to encode info you want to be portable & follow you around
- [22:31:42] * alevin (n=adinalev@198.214.235.189) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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- [22:32:27] <KevinMarks>
glad to be of service...
- [22:32:27] * adactio (n=adactio@198.214.235.189) Quit (Connection reset by peer)
- [22:32:31] <mfbot>
[[events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks&diff=0&oldid=26228 * Tantek * (+40) updated heading/summary, attendee sorting
- [22:32:41] <adinalevin>
sharing information is not "private or public"
- [22:32:45] <PibbRelay>
<singpolyma> Oh, good, Pibb logs for later reference/searching :)
- [22:32:46] <adinalevin>
it's sharing with group x or group y
- [22:33:03] <adinalevin>
sharing with a cancer support group isn't the same as sharing with linked in colleagues
- [22:33:14] <KevinMarks>
do you think joe smarr was previously a livestock auctioneer?
- [22:33:15] <tantek>
singpolyma - #microformats is archived already - see the /topic
- [22:33:45] * adactio (n=adactio@198.214.235.189) has joined #microformats
- [22:33:45] * ChanServ sets mode +o adactio
- [22:33:50] <tantek>
adinalevin: tags > groups
- [22:34:20] <adinalevin>
yup
- [22:34:50] <adinalevin>
button "share with tagx"
- [22:34:52] <singpolyma>
@tantek - thanks, that's good - just noticed PibbRelay in here and checked it out, but public logs are good too :)
- [22:34:58] * theanxy (i=wojtek@87.204.38.226) Quit ("Reconnecting")
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- [22:35:04] <KevinMarks>
you can log into blogger with your livejournal url
- [22:35:20] <tantek>
Kevinmarks, can you create a blogspot blog with your livejournal URL?
- [22:35:21] <adactio>
If anybody has any questions or comments, post them here.
- [22:35:34] <KevinMarks>
hCard can be parsed in client-side js, so you can share it under an https site
- [22:35:41] <tantek>
adactio - david's point is inaccurate. he is conflating format and protocol
- [22:35:59] <tantek>
privacy/control is a protocol matter (e.g. https, oauth)
- [22:36:05] * madness (n=mng@client-86-31-38-96.leed.adsl.virgin.net) Quit ()
- [22:36:11] <tantek>
orthogonal of the format (whether vCard, hCard, FOAF etc.)
- [22:36:11] <adinalevin>
distributed reputation, oy
- [22:36:13] <brianoberkirch>
adactio: maybe you guys can address the usability/user expectation issues with URL-based identity
- [22:36:23] <KevinMarks>
I don't think so - the point of the comment URL is to link back to where you are yourself; blogger won't post to LJ
- [22:36:23] <adinalevin>
reputation on dailykos is not the same as reputation on redstate
- [22:36:24] * var1 (n=james@82-41-204-122.cable.ubr11.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #microformats
- [22:36:58] <tantek>
exactly, why can't OpenID *protocol* just use hCard for the *format*
- [22:37:05] <afroginthevalley>
I was reviewing a privacy policy this afternoon and would have love some good boilerplate text to explain openID 2 attribute exchange to my lawyer...
- [22:37:20] <tantek>
there was *no reason* reinvent formats and vocabularies via sreg and attribute exchange.
- [22:37:38] * paul_irish (i=c6d6ebbc@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c2efd655a1480019) has joined #microformats
- [22:37:49] <KevinMarks>
We have hCards in google local results and in private upcoming events - still useful cleint-side
- [22:37:52] * BradTempleton (n=chatzill@198.214.235.188) has joined #microformats
- [22:37:52] <jibot>
BradTempleton is in Silicon Valley and has a giant website at www.templetons.com and let's not forget www.netfunny.com
- [22:38:27] <singpolyma>
Private hCards can make sense behind a wall of OAuth too.
- [22:38:32] <KevinMarks>
you could auth to the OpenID URL over https or with OAuth and get a different hCard depending on who you are
- [22:38:42] * Phae (n=user@198.214.235.189) has joined #microformats
- [22:38:42] * ChanServ sets mode +o Phae
- [22:38:42] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
- [22:38:55] <adinalevin>
thx factoryjoe
- [22:39:18] <BradTempleton>
Here's the essay I pointed you to, Kevin, on the paradox http://ideas.4brad.com/paradox-identity-management
- [22:39:31] <KevinMarks>
thanks brad
- [22:39:44] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
- [22:39:44] <tantek>
Tom Coates illustrates the public/private access with different hCards on his blog depending on public access or those who have logged into his blog using their OpenID
- [22:39:44] <tantek>
sorry, s/Tom Coates/Tom Morris
- [22:39:44] <tantek>
access can be easily gated using OpenID + Oauth
- [22:39:44] <tantek>
and once access is granted, *then* exchange the data *in the same format* whether public, limited, or private
- [22:39:44] <tantek>
KevinMarks, the point is not blogger posting to LJ, but being able to mirror your LJ on blogspot
- [22:40:04] <KevinMarks>
ah
- [22:40:33] * BradTempleton_ (n=chatzill@198.214.235.188) has joined #microformats
- [22:40:37] <KevinMarks>
a better way to do that would be by feed importing (including hAtom importing possibly)
- [22:40:41] <BradTempleton_>
But I gave you the gist, and these talks ignore it.
- [22:41:02] <KevinMarks>
I think there is a good possible extension to AtomPub to do that
- [22:41:22] <mfbot>
[[events/2008-03-10-sxsw-portability-panel]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2008-03-10-sxsw-portability-panel&diff=0&oldid=26229 * Tantek * (+32) attending
- [22:42:16] <Phae>
those in the session: if you've not already seen it, informal microformats meetup directly after this is over
- [22:42:17] <Phae>
http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2008-03-11-sxsw-building-blocks
- [22:42:26] <Phae>
JK will announce
- [22:42:26] <tantek>
Brad, these talks don't ignore it. The point is that creating the technology to make consolidaton/separation/pseudonymity more explicit enables easier creation of user interfaces to provide user choice for those options.
- [22:42:47] <tantek>
Phae 3-11?
- [22:42:49] <tantek>
http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks
- [22:42:54] <Phae>
erg
- [22:43:03] * bunny_sxsw (n=bunny@213.131.245.125) has joined #microformats
- [22:43:05] <Phae>
yeah, it's got a redirect. i was dumb earlier. my eee has the date wrong
- [22:43:07] <bunny_sxsw>
hi folks
- [22:43:09] <bunny_sxsw>
missing the panel
- [22:43:11] <KevinMarks>
btw, come along to OpenSocial Openbar after this panel http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=21667079920 or with microformats at: http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/449215 - a few blocks away with food and drink
- [22:43:12] <bunny_sxsw>
in my bed :-/
- [22:43:16] * bergie (n=bergie@cs136229.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
- [22:43:33] <BradTempleton_>
But that is ignoring my point. "Good UI" at giving away your data has a negative consequence, that's my point.
- [22:43:39] * AceT (n=mobile@198.214.235.189) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
- [22:43:43] <Phae>
KevinMarks: you're up against the great british booze-up
- [22:43:45] <tantek>
Brad, not just for "giving away your data"
- [22:43:46] <BradTempleton_>
Make it easy to do, it will be done more often, asked for more often, demanded more often
- [22:43:47] <tantek>
that's a misframing
- [22:44:05] <tantek>
it's making it easier for good UI for *either* giving away or keeping more private/controlled your data
- [22:44:09] <BradTempleton_>
Not just for that, but it enables it.
- [22:44:10] <tantek>
providing that *choice*
- [22:44:20] <KevinMarks>
that kicks off at 7.30, you can warm up at ours
- [22:44:24] <identitywoman>
well it is not just UI
- [22:44:41] * mkaply (n=mkaply@198.214.235.188) has joined #microformats
- [22:44:41] <jibot>
mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
- [22:44:44] <BradTempleton_>
No, because that's not how it works socially. Something cool comes along and says, "Want to use me? I'm cool! Just use this easy UI to tell me all about you"
- [22:44:48] <KevinMarks>
My hope is that as we have more interoperable data the containers can compete on privacy control
- [22:45:01] <adinalevin>
mt doing net::oauth perl plugin
- [22:45:03] <identitywoman>
it is actual standards that give users fine grained control and not just trying to 'hack' it into HTML with some minimal authentication.
- [22:45:06] <BradTempleton_>
That's the paradox. The choice, the user control, has a negative result.
- [22:45:28] <mfbot>
[[events/2008-03-10-sxsw-portability-panel]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2008-03-10-sxsw-portability-panel&diff=0&oldid=26230 * Tantek * (+1)
- [22:45:29] <identitywoman>
I agree with Kevin - interoperable data and the containers that give privacy control
- [22:45:29] <adinalevin>
thanks recordon
- [22:45:50] <tantek>
if you are at the session IRL, add yourself to the wiki page! http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2008-03-10-sxsw-portability-panel
- [22:46:46] <tantek>
come by *immediately* after the panel first to the microformats community meetup at 6:05pm at the Lego pit in the Austin Convention Center, http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks before wandering offsite.
- [22:47:02] <Phae>
...or else?
- [22:47:03] <paul_irish>
Why no openID login for the mf wiki? :)
- [22:47:11] <Phae>
heh
- [22:47:11] <KevinMarks>
can I come to the mic and plug Google stuff or is that gauche?
- [22:47:11] <KevinMarks>
Brad's at the mic
- [22:47:43] <adinalevin>
tantek, right, but the justifications at the beginning of the panel were all about reducing friction, letting data flow more easily
- [22:48:01] <adinalevin>
so it sure sounds like what people want to build is tools that facilitate data motion
- [22:48:25] <adinalevin>
and that may be in the interest of service developers more than users
- [22:48:27] <singpolyma>
But if you allow motion you can also allow privacy control.
- [22:48:30] <tantek>
XFN is by design present tense
- [22:48:44] <adinalevin>
xen - xfn enemies network
- [22:48:53] * andr3 (n=andr3@bl4-147-177.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #microformats
- [22:49:06] <Phae>
yeah, but how often does a person want to say they are the enemy of someone else
- [22:49:17] <tantek>
see http://gmpg.org/xfn/background for why XFN is present tense
- [22:49:23] <tantek>
Phae, exactly
- [22:49:36] <Phae>
it's not very social
- [22:49:41] <Phae>
you just don't do it
- [22:49:41] <Phae>
IRL
- [22:49:47] <tantek>
XFN values were based on *actual* explicit mention of relationship in blogs and blogrolls
- [22:49:47] <Phae>
you just don't talk to that person
- [22:49:56] <tantek>
don't invent technology without doing research for example first.
- [22:49:59] <KevinMarks>
if each answer takes this long we wont get many questions done
- [22:49:59] <Phae>
heh
- [22:50:01] <KevinMarks>
well, you might flame them
- [22:50:09] <tantek>
80/20
- [22:50:29] <Phae>
anyway. i have battery fail. see you at the bricks in about 10!
- [22:50:35] * Phae (n=user@198.214.235.189) Quit ("Leaving.")
- [22:50:49] <KevinMarks>
but then vote-links is a better fit
- [22:51:02] <paul_irish>
who's this?
- [22:51:12] <adinalevin>
brad: the easier you make it, the more it will be done
- [22:51:15] <adinalevin>
brad templeton
- [22:51:18] <adinalevin>
eff chairman
- [22:51:24] <tantek>
"slider" for friends is not what people publish, therefore it wasn't pursued
- [22:52:00] <adinalevin>
who said "you didn't get the memo that privacy was dead"?
- [22:53:16] <adinalevin>
" the solution is never to do nothing" says mr. plaxo
- [22:53:34] <adinalevin>
efforts to make things better
- [22:53:47] <tantek>
"the point is to make things better than today" - Chris Messina
- [22:53:49] <adinalevin>
robert moses freeways through the bronx were intended to make things better
- [22:54:07] <adinalevin>
bulldozing neighborhoods to facilitate traffic flows
- [22:54:11] * paul_irish (i=c6d6ebbc@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c2efd655a1480019) Quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
- [22:54:14] <KevinMarks>
wed much rather you use contacts api than hand over gmail password
- [22:54:22] <adinalevin>
km true
- [22:54:32] <KevinMarks>
which is what people do now
- [22:54:36] <tantek>
we need to discourage people throwing their passwords around like confetti
- [22:54:44] <Zuardi>
+1
- [22:55:00] <tantek>
http://microformats.org/wiki/social-network-anti-patterns
- [22:55:18] * AceT (n=mobile@198.214.235.189) has joined #microformats
- [22:55:58] <adinalevin>
"wll get it out there and make good solutions"
- [22:56:02] <adinalevin>
trust us
- [22:56:04] <adinalevin>
mwahahaha
- [22:56:26] <KevinMarks>
I'd like to mention google OAuth support...
- [22:56:29] <tantek>
only have a few minutes left in the session - but lots of folks in Q&A line - come to the microformats community meetup immediately afterwards to continue the discussion: http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2008-03-10-sxsw-building-blocks
- [22:56:31] <afroginthevalley>
ouch... the "vaseline web" is going to hurt for a while...
- [22:56:34] <BradTempleton_>
They don't get the negotiation problem. Individuals have no negotiation power
- [22:56:41] <bunny_sxsw>
http://www.disambiguity.com/design-ethics-encouraging-responsible-behaviour/ <-- don't teach users to give away their passwords
- [22:56:57] * gerard (i=04146273@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-03489e8bb9b4d573) has joined #microformats
- [22:56:57] <jibot>
gerard is jerry
- [22:56:57] <tantek>
Brad, individuals can leave a service, just like they left the keynote yesterday
- [22:57:05] <tantek>
"the law of 2 feet"
- [22:57:13] <BradTempleton_>
Yes, we need better than handing over your password, but now is our chance to really fix it.
- [22:57:19] <adinalevin>
if you make freeways and parking lots and not sidewalks
- [22:57:25] <adinalevin>
people will drive and not walk
- [22:57:30] <BradTempleton_>
Not just give you a more secure way to easily hand over your informatioln
- [22:57:33] <adinalevin>
so developers have a lot of power in what they make easy
- [22:57:38] <adinalevin>
and that power is not always used well
- [22:57:42] <KevinMarks>
so we shoudl make monorails?
- [22:57:49] <BradTempleton_>
Monorail!
- [22:57:53] <BradTempleton_>
Monorail!
- [22:57:58] <BradTempleton_>
(sorry)
- [22:58:07] <adinalevin>
lol.
- [22:58:44] <adinalevin>
jane jacobs wanted neighborhoods and sidewalks and some streets with slow traffic
- [22:58:45] <tantek>
microformats would say study the walking/biking paths in the wild and use them to help (with good planning) to pave walking/running/bike paths ;)
- [22:58:47] <adinalevin>
not just freeways
- [22:59:07] <adinalevin>
the walking / biking paths in the while *are* people's semi-overlapping social entworks
- [22:59:08] <KevinMarks>
I know
- [22:59:08] <adinalevin>
already
- [22:59:18] <KevinMarks>
Jane Jacobs ftw
- [22:59:19] <BradTempleton_>
What I truly need is a way to force cool new apps to not demand information they don't actually need.
- [22:59:21] <adinalevin>
s/while/wild/
- [22:59:30] <BradTempleton_>
Not a way to make it easier to hand over what they demand.
- [22:59:47] <tantek>
Brad, your option is to just not use those apps, blog about them, and ask for the creation of apps that don't ask for the data
- [22:59:50] <tantek>
it's a feedback/iteration loop
- [22:59:51] <identitywoman>
The Law of Minimal disclosure
- [22:59:55] <BradTempleton_>
That's an option?
- [22:59:59] <adinalevin>
excellent question
- [23:00:04] <identitywoman>
it is up to app developers to actually 'do' the right thing
- [23:00:05] <BradTempleton_>
I think recent experience says that option's not working.
- [23:00:08] <KevinMarks>
right, whcih is why OpenSocial has the GetXXX and RequestXXX APIs
- [23:00:11] <identitywoman>
and not ask for 'everything'
- [23:00:13] <adinalevin>
dopplr and satisfaction set the bar with design patterns for inviting friends
- [23:00:32] <tantek>
ok, heading to Lego pit
- [23:00:34] <adinalevin>
what else is left to do in design pattern / ue
- [23:00:35] * tantek (n=tantek@198.214.235.188) Quit ()
- [23:00:41] <identitywoman>
I loved Dopplr's way of getting friends
- [23:00:44] <BradTempleton_>
The requestxxx api doesn't give me the power to say, "you should not be asking that" It only lets me not use the app
- [23:00:55] <BradTempleton_>
No negotiation. It's like clickwrap contracts.
- [23:01:39] <adinalevin>
which was that?
- [23:01:47] <KevinMarks>
it lets sites expose policy without forcing an auth dialog for every little thing, which leads to 'click before read' - more granular
- [23:01:48] <adinalevin>
a usable implementation of oid
- [23:02:09] * BradTempleton (n=chatzill@198.214.235.188) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [23:02:28] <KevinMarks>
gah, I'm too far back in the line
- [23:03:07] <KevinMarks>
I'd like to talk about google oauth
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- [23:03:13] <adinalevin>
take kevin's question
- [23:03:50] <adinalevin>
recreating groups and access control list on the webs
- [23:03:58] <BradTempleton_>
Sorry for asking a long question Kevin
- [23:04:02] <adinalevin>
users define their own access control list
- [23:05:15] <adinalevin>
siwtching gmail contacts api to oauth
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- [23:09:27] <adinalevin>
adinalevin: mccormick & schick
- [23:09:27] <adinalevin>
adinalevin: 4th & congress
- [23:09:27] <adinalevin>
adinalevin: is the open social open bar
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- [23:10:55] <jibot>
tommorris is a semantic web geek (with a philosophy degree, naturally), lives in East Sussex, UK, is something of a strange quark (strangeness value: -1) and blogs at http://tommorris.org
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- [23:15:46] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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