IRC Log for #microformats on 2008-03-11
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [00:09:42] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli http://www.csarven.ca
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- [00:49:20] <jibot>
edsu is Ed Summers from the Library of Congress <http://www.inkdroid.org>
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- [01:52:05] <jibot>
dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
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- [02:01:11] <jibot>
mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
- [02:05:06] <csarven>
mkaply!
- [02:05:18] <mkaply>
hey
- [02:05:28] <csarven>
Did you make updates to the way geo parse/grab "geo"?
- [02:05:33] <csarven>
on 0.9g
- [02:06:18] <mkaply>
csarven: as in, did I break something related to geo? probably ;)
- [02:07:03] <csarven>
http://www.csarven.ca/cv
- [02:07:16] <csarven>
0.9b is okay.
- [02:08:45] <mkaply>
weird. that one isn't even showing up in debug.
- [02:10:29] <mkaply>
I broke something. I'll fix it
- [02:10:52] <csarven>
Cool :)
- [02:11:12] <mkaply>
i bet it's my new floatgetter code
- [02:11:31] <csarven>
It showed in my debug on 0.9g. I have 0.9b on this machine and it is okay.
- [02:11:42] <csarven>
I will update I suppose and see.
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- [02:12:38] <mkaply>
bah
- [02:12:43] <mkaply>
what a nerd I am
- [02:12:58] <mkaply>
-73.570260 is != -73.57026
- [02:13:02] <mkaply>
I need a better way to do that
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- [02:13:38] <csarven>
I also noticed you grab the content inside class="geo" and display that in the toolbar instead of just long lat
- [02:14:11] <mkaply>
I've always done that, haven't I?
- [02:14:23] <mkaply>
because some people use text to describe the geo?
- [02:14:33] <csarven>
Perhaps. I thought it was always the values in @title
- [02:15:53] <mkaply>
I guess if latitude and longitude are specifed as classnames, it doesn't neccearily make sense to grab the geo content. I'll have to think about that
- [02:16:29] <csarven>
I can't remember to be honest.. Confused. "geo" is listing the "fn" values of the vcard
- [02:16:36] <csarven>
in 0.9b
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- [02:29:07] <mkaply>
ah. I was asked to change that a little. The problem was I was using the vcard even if the geo had text.
- [02:29:13] <mkaply>
It was causing a problem on a bbc site
- [02:29:42] <mkaply>
But I think I'm wrong.
- [02:29:48] <mkaply>
I should only use the textContent in the abbr case
- [02:29:55] <mkaply>
I'll change it back
- [02:31:05] <csarven>
That would probably be ideal, given that that is the human readable version
- [02:32:45] <mkaply>
yeah. grabbing the text content of a lat/long microofrmats would be strange. I'll have to look more
- [02:49:52] <mkaply>
csarven: ok, some fix. Still working
- [02:50:21] <csarven>
Cool
- [02:50:43] <csarven>
Can I grab 0.9h? :)
- [02:52:54] <mkaply>
Need a few more minutes. Need to get the tet right
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- [03:07:10] <mkaply>
csarven: ok
- [03:07:10] <mkaply>
http://www.kaply.com/operator/operator.xpi
- [03:07:17] <mkaply>
it will still say G
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- [03:11:19] <csarven>
mkaply Great. :)
- [03:11:42] <csarven>
I can sleep better now :P knowing that everything is in order.
- [03:13:13] <mkaply>
csarven: definitely now works on your site
- [03:13:23] <mkaply>
and on the bbx site
- [03:13:33] <mkaply>
bbc. which is where the problem was
- [03:14:24] <csarven>
Cool.. I wonder if that covers majority of the cases (not sure what you did)
- [03:14:37] <csarven>
Do you get a lot of bug reports?
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- [03:22:14] <csarven>
mkaply 0.9g (RC) throwing "Operator: calling semantic data proc" on Firebug Console
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- [03:25:36] <mkaply>
csarven: yeah. sorry. debug message right now. Shouldn't break anything
- [03:26:06] <mkaply>
That's what you get for getting a build from me :)
- [03:26:18] <csarven>
Thought I'd mention it. You've probably noticed it.
- [03:28:23] <mkaply>
csarven: took it out. tx
- [03:28:41] <csarven>
No prob. Thanks for the custom build =)
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- [06:00:32] <jibot>
SignpostMarv is a WordPress, Second Life and OpenID geek
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- [06:17:56] <jibot>
madness is a freelance web developer from Bournemouth, Dorset, UK. His online home is at http://www.markng.co.uk/
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- [06:31:32] <jibot>
illustir is the creator of hAvatar and related and at http://alper.nl and builds http://tipit.to
- [06:32:15] <illustir>
?forgetme
- [06:32:15] <jibot>
I have expunged illustir from my mind
- [06:32:37] <illustir>
?def illustir (http://alper.nl) is the creator of hAvatar
- [06:32:37] <jibot>
illustir (http://alper.nl) is the creator of hAvatar
- [06:32:49] <illustir>
?def illustir builds http://tipit.to
- [06:32:49] <jibot>
Nobody has defined illustir builds http://tipit.to yet
- [06:32:58] <illustir>
?forgetme
- [06:32:59] <jibot>
I have expunged illustir from my mind
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- [06:43:01] <SignpostMarv>
anyone free to look over my implementation of various microformats before I add them to the various listings on the wiki ?
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- [07:40:24] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [08:32:31] <jibot>
drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer at http://edgeofmyseat.com
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- [08:52:47] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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- [09:05:14] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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- [09:48:46] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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- [09:58:32] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [10:07:27] <jibot>
madness is a freelance web developer from Bournemouth, Dorset, UK. His online home is at http://www.markng.co.uk/
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- [10:18:12] <jibot>
SignpostMarv is a WordPress, Second Life and OpenID geek
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- [11:21:30] <mfbot>
[[events/2008-london-microformats-vevent]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2008-london-microformats-vevent&diff=0&oldid=26231 * TobyInk * (+27) Attending -
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- [11:23:21] <jibot>
Max is Max in London, UK and blogging at http://www.maxniederhofer.com and at reboot7 and pl4y1ng th3 m4ss m3d14 g4m3?
- [11:23:46] <mfbot>
[[ThisWeek/2008-03-10]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=ThisWeek/2008-03-10&diff=0&oldid=26232 * DavidJanes * (+786) On the web -
- [11:24:01] <Max>
hello
- [11:24:20] <var1>
hello
- [11:24:39] <Max>
I'm after some help trying to tag some existing data as a hcalendar
- [11:25:25] <var1>
hopefully someone will come along soon to help.
- [11:27:07] <mfbot>
[[ThisWeek/2008-03-10]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=ThisWeek/2008-03-10&diff=0&oldid=26233 * DavidJanes * (+304) Developments on uf-new -
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- [11:35:45] <mfbot>
[[ThisWeek/2008-03-10]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=ThisWeek/2008-03-10&diff=0&oldid=26234 * DavidJanes * (+273) On the web -
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- [11:38:21] <Max>
I am currently using a definition list to mark up calendar events e.g. <dl><dt>Thursday, 1st January 2008</dt><dd>Curry at Balti House</dd><dt>Friday, 2nd January 2008</dt><dd>Cinema</dd></dl> I'm trying to tag this for hcalendar, but unfortunately can't work out how to do it as I can't introduce a single element that contains each event. Can anyone offer any suggestions?
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dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
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- [14:03:38] <jibot>
mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
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- [14:15:34] <Max>
mkaply: I've just found a bug in operator's remove duplicates feature, I think
- [14:15:54] <mkaply>
Max: Quite possible. It's slow in 0.9g, that's for sure
- [14:16:38] <Max>
I'm outputting hcalendar events, but it removes events with the same summary but different dates
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- [14:17:24] <Max>
I should have begun by saying thanks for developing it, by the way - I'm finding it an invaluable tool!
- [14:19:01] <mkaply>
Max: that is odd. I compare everything in the node (at least I'm supposed to)
- [14:19:06] <mkaply>
not just the name.
- [14:19:22] <mkaply>
Max: if you can get me a testcase, that would be great
- [14:22:06] <Max>
will do - where do you want it?
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- [14:27:56] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [14:38:22] <Max>
actually, I think I have another bug in operator - if I specify a date start as 2008-04-10T19:25:00+01:00, then the add to Google calendar action translates this to 20080410T172500, which is interpreted by Google as 2 hours too early in local time
- [14:39:47] <Max>
in Operator's debug mode, I can see that it's correctly translated it to 2008-04-10T18:25:00Z, but it seems to subtract an other hour when creating the url for Google calendar and also drop the Z suffix
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pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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- [15:52:02] <jibot>
mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
- [15:52:16] <mkaply>
Max: mozilla at gmail com
- [15:53:26] <Max>
ok - I've put 2 testcases together and will send them through
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- [15:57:46] <singpolyma>
?def singpolyma is Stephen Paul Weber <http://singpolyma.net> #diso
- [15:57:47] <jibot>
singpolyma is Stephen Paul Weber <http://singpolyma.net> #diso
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Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
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- [16:26:54] <jibot>
mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
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- [16:44:54] <Max>
Should hCalendar events include a local timezone offset for dtstart etc? The spec says they should, but this doesn't appear to be done very often, and the hCalendar creator doesn't generate them by default
- [16:45:46] <singpolyma>
Should if possible - especially if there is a time (and not just date) involved
- [16:46:45] <Max>
ok, so authors need to think ahead about what daylight saving times will be in effect for future dates?
- [16:47:16] <Max>
e.g. I live in the uk and in april, dst will be in effect, so I should use +01:00 for dates in April, but Z for dates in March?
- [16:50:03] <gsnedders>
Max: yes
- [16:50:08] <mkaply>
Max: If people outside your timezone will be scheduling the event, you need it
- [16:50:12] <mkaply>
otherwise it's not really necessary
- [16:50:19] <Max>
right, thanks - that's useful
- [16:50:36] <Max>
there is a bug in Operator on that though, I think - details to follow
- [16:50:57] <mkaply>
Max: If there is no offset, I schedule as local time. Otherwise I attempt to convert stuff.
- [16:51:00] <mkaply>
Using FF APIs
- [16:51:08] <mkaply>
At least that's how it is supposed to work
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- [16:54:34] <Max>
I think the bugs occur because the time is in the future when dst would apply, but doesn't at present
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- [16:54:56] <Max>
sorry - test case any minute - struggling with file permissions on web server right now
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- [16:56:47] <Max>
ok, test case here http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~mjs510/operatorbugs.html
- [16:57:54] <Max>
also emailed
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- [17:01:59] <singpolyma>
:S - could be useful to support named timezones so that DST is "built-in" - but that could be really ugly
- [17:02:02] <mkaply>
Max: I don't know if I can do anything about that DST problem. DST really really really sucks
- [17:02:09] <singpolyma>
Just publish in UTC, it's safer
- [17:02:23] <Max>
it doesn't work if I publish in UTC - that's the problem
- [17:03:16] <mkaply>
I think it is a JS bug
- [17:03:20] <Max>
but you get it right when generating the vcard
- [17:03:25] <mkaply>
I call getTimezoneOffset
- [17:03:37] <mkaply>
ah. So you're saying it's only wrong to google?
- [17:03:37] <Max>
you can pass utc values to google calendar
- [17:03:39] <Max>
yes
- [17:03:46] <Max>
see the test case
- [17:03:53] <Max>
it shows the vcard as well
- [17:04:40] <mkaply>
thats odd because my code should be sending the "Z" to google - I don't localize for google.
- [17:04:56] * mkaply shall debug
- [17:05:00] <Max>
:-)
- [17:05:01] <Max>
thanks
- [17:05:36] <mkaply>
The duplicate thing is really strange
- [17:06:16] <Max>
it would actually be really helpful to include the event dates in the toolbar anyway - otherwise you don't know which one you're adding
- [17:06:26] <Max>
I've got a page full of events called Rehearsal
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- [17:07:53] <mkaply>
Max: If you use the include pattern to duplicate dates with the same name, i do do that.
- [17:08:13] <mkaply>
There are two problems with adding the date.
- [17:08:20] <mkaply>
1. Lots of cases where you don't need it.
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- [17:08:36] <mkaply>
2. Having JS generate a locale specific date always puts a time on, even if it is just a date.
- [17:08:38] <mkaply>
So it looks strange
- [17:08:45] <Max>
ah, ok
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- [17:09:03] <Max>
by include pattern, do you mean repeating events?
- [17:09:23] <mkaply>
Max: yes
- [17:09:25] <singpolyma>
RE:#2, you could just detect midnight (or whatever the default time is) and display like a date if you have that
- [17:09:27] <mkaply>
Max: no
- [17:09:58] <mkaply>
Max: You can't do include with your events, never mind
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- [17:10:18] <mkaply>
singpolyma: well, I'm just asking JS to format the date. So I have to somehow go in the date string and figure out which part represents the time
- [17:10:21] <mkaply>
and that's locale sensitive
- [17:10:38] <mkaply>
Max: So basically ICS doesn't support TZ offsets, so I go through pain to convert to Z
- [17:10:41] <singpolyma>
mkaply: Date.getYear() etc is what I use
- [17:10:55] <mkaply>
singpolyma: But then you don't get local sensitive display
- [17:11:14] <singpolyma>
Oh, I see -- true, hadn't considered that - I was just thinking timezone logic
- [17:11:34] <mkaply>
Max: So what you're saying (and you are probably right) Is I should do that same pain so that google always uses Z (even though google supports offsets)
- [17:12:05] <mkaply>
Although I'm sending the right offset to google, isn't it the one messing it up?
- [17:12:19] <Max>
no, you're not sending an offset to google
- [17:12:37] <mkaply>
I'm attemting tp convert to local time. got it
- [17:12:48] <mkaply>
/* If there is an offset and there is no Z, localize */
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- [17:12:57] <mkaply>
I shouldn't do that. If there an offset and no Z, convert to Z
- [17:13:12] <singpolyma>
mkaply: +1
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- [17:13:38] <Max>
if you give google a Z, it warns that the events have been converted to local time, even if that matched your local time anyway - that may be why you tried to remove it
- [17:14:17] <Max>
that bit is a bug in google, however, but it's harmless
- [17:15:11] <singpolyma>
Max: not really a bug, a possibly useful warning
- [17:15:33] <Max>
yes, but it would be better not to warn in the case when the conversion didn't change the time
- [17:15:36] <Max>
?
- [17:16:07] <singpolyma>
Max: not sure, I'm a fan of warning people about timezone stuff as long as the warning isn't too annoying - because even the best of efforts are wrong too often.
- [17:16:09] <Max>
ah, but that time could of course change in the future e.g. when dst starts?
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tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [17:59:34] <jibot>
mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
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- [18:03:59] <jibot>
jcw9 is Jon Williams and can be found online at http://wizardishungry.com/blog/
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- [19:03:14] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
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- [19:07:06] <jibot>
BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk ( 0000/ 0100 GMT)
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- [19:11:48] <mfbot>
[[governance-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=governance-issues&diff=0&oldid=26235 * EatYourGreens * (+41) Petition -
- [19:12:54] <mfbot>
[[governance-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=governance-issues&diff=0&oldid=26236 * Csarven * (+38)
- [19:15:35] * iand (n=iand@89.192.159.84) has joined #microformats
- [19:15:36] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
- [19:18:17] <var1>
Hello to everyone here ... I am kept entertained by jibot and mfbot
- [19:19:18] <var1>
best use of irc chat bots I've seen so far 8)
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- [19:28:06] <Phae>
hi var1
- [19:28:22] <Phae>
if they get too much, just /ignore them
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- [19:35:10] <var1>
Phae thanks for telling me that ... I'll try ignoring them in a bit.
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- [19:37:44] <var1>
hi fakebot!
- [19:37:48] <mfbot>
[[governance-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=governance-issues&diff=0&oldid=26237 * TobyInk * (+29) Petition - Add my name to list.
- [19:37:58] <fakebot>
hi var1
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- [19:49:49] <fakebot>
var1 what are you doing?
- [19:50:05] <var1>
I'm try to ignore bots
- [19:50:16] <fakebot>
ha ha ha
- [19:50:25] <var1>
stupid me
- [19:51:33] <fakebot>
if they find out you are me they will think you are slightly mentally ill
- [19:51:40] <var1>
be quiet.
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- [20:21:23] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [20:32:16] <jimbojw>
hi tantek
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- [20:39:22] <jibot>
ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com and a neogeographer and is co-founder of Mapufacture
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- [21:06:46] <jibot>
tommorris is a semantic web geek (with a philosophy degree, naturally), lives in East Sussex, UK, is something of a strange quark (strangeness value: -1) and blogs at http://tommorris.org
- [21:08:38] <mfbot>
[[governance-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=governance-issues&diff=0&oldid=26238 * JohnAllsopp * (+38) Petition -
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- [21:29:46] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [21:38:44] <mfbot>
[[governance-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=governance-issues&diff=0&oldid=26239 * TomMorris * (+277) Petition - added signature and comment
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- [21:40:00] <mfbot>
[[governance-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=governance-issues&diff=0&oldid=26240 * JeffMcNeill * (+38) Petition -
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- [22:05:08] <mfbot>
[[ThisWeek/2008-03-10]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=ThisWeek/2008-03-10&diff=0&oldid=26241 * DavidJanes * (+179) On the web -
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- [22:12:34] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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- [22:44:24] <pat-in-wv>
hello all, have been in and out lurking, and apologize for the terse interjection.....but saw this on sphinn and thought i would share for those that have not seen it yet
- [22:44:36] <pat-in-wv>
http://sphinn.com/story/34034
- [22:45:37] <pat-in-wv>
sorry, that was not direct link, http://searchengineland.com/080311-104251.php
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- [22:47:59] <tommorris>
looking at the title of that, I've had an idea - JavaScript for timezone localisation
- [22:49:14] <tommorris>
for hcalendar events, it'd be really useful if you could have them localised. I often see things like "our server is going to have downtime at midnight PST for two hours", and can never remember what time difference PST is (esp. as the US.gov have changed the DST times). It'd be neat if I could have a little JavaScript so I could click on the data or something and have it localise automatically
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- [22:53:22] <pat-in-wv>
are there any charts for crawlers that are actively crawling for microformats?
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- [23:04:22] <singpolyma>
tommorris: definately something people are interested in <http://trevorcreech.com/blog/2007/08/16/user-relevant-timezones-01/>
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- [23:14:28] <jibot>
dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
- [23:14:50] * illustir (n=alper@s55911e61.adsl.wanadoo.nl) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [23:16:01] <mfbot>
[[User:JaredEssig]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:JaredEssig * JaredEssig * (+214) create user JaredEssig's page
- [23:16:37] <mfbot>
[[User:JaredEssig]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:JaredEssig&diff=0&oldid=26242 * JaredEssig * (-31)
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- [23:18:53] <mfbot>
[[hresume-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=26243 * JaredEssig * (+99) added user JaredEssig's hResume example
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- [23:36:05] <mfbot>
[[governance-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=governance-issues&diff=0&oldid=26244 * RobManson * (+34) Petition -
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These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on
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