IRC Log for #microformats on 2009-01-22
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [02:00:55] <mfbot>
Tantek edited events "add yesterday's last-min tweeted event, place-holder for next week" (+704) http://is.gd/gMsI
- [02:12:08] <mfbot>
Tantek created events/2009-01-20-weekly-dinner-sf "capture last night's last-min meetup" http://is.gd/gMvk
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- [08:54:39] <mfbot>
Tantek edited gender-brainstorming "added example markup and shorthand/compound gender property section" (+348) http://is.gd/gNXz
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- [10:08:14] <mfbot>
ThomasLoertsch edited hrecipe-issues "/* issues */ about the right size of vocabularies" (+2076) http://is.gd/gOdK
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- [11:47:52] <mfbot>
ThomasLoertsch edited hrecipe-issues "/* issues */ Draft of a new Draft 0.2" (+1968) http://is.gd/gOBT
- [11:52:25] <mfbot>
ThomasLoertsch edited hrecipe-issues "" (+130) http://is.gd/gODb
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- [16:17:11] <SignpostMarv>
I'm thinking about doing a gears-powered search tool to help people find the microformats on my project's site, but I'm not sure as to how I should go about getting the data into the local storage.
- [16:17:29] <SignpostMarv>
e.g. whether to go for XPath/DOM scanning of the document,
- [16:18:04] <SignpostMarv>
or to provide an external XOXO document that the gears code would request and parse
- [16:20:38] <SignpostMarv>
e.g. <link rel="alternate gears xoxo" href="../{name}.xoxo" type="application/xml" />
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- [16:22:35] <tfurgeson>
Hi all - new to microformats and am looking to add hReview syntax throughout my review site. One thing I'm not sure about is that the item for each hReview in my case is a business, which I understand whould be an hCard. However on a given page (that represents the business) I have multiple reviews. Can the review (hreview) "point" the the hCard that lives outside the hReview?
- [16:23:02] <SignpostMarv>
include pattern FTW!
- [16:23:17] <SignpostMarv>
http://microformats.org/wiki/include-pattern
- [16:24:09] <tfurgeson>
Excellent - as a side note, are there any good message boards for talking semantic web / microformats?
- [16:24:16] <SignpostMarv>
hReview is actually used as an example of how the include pattern can be used
- [16:24:22] <tfurgeson>
(not sure I need it now that I found this room) :)
- [16:24:57] <SignpostMarv>
there's the wiki, irc and microformats mailing list
- [16:25:38] * SignpostMarv avoids forums, so wouldn't know
- [16:27:27] <tfurgeson>
It seems like those options will do - although I registered for the mailing list yesterday and never got any confirmation.
- [16:30:17] <tfurgeson>
In general what are the pro's and con's of using a microformat versus linking to an rdf? I realize the microformat is MUCH easier to implement - but am I losing out on much?
- [16:30:41] <SignpostMarv>
avoids duplication of information
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- [16:31:24] <SignpostMarv>
though personally, I generate seperate hCalendar/hAtom, iCalendar and Atom feeds of a calendar myself
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- [16:31:57] <SignpostMarv>
though I could link to technorati's iCal service etc.
- [16:33:01] <tfurgeson>
yea - that is another microformat benefit, any big tradeoff to using microformats vs. linked rdfs?
- [16:33:22] <SignpostMarv>
well i'm not sure what you'd be having in the external rdf
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- [16:37:00] <SignpostMarv>
isn't rdf typically verbose overkill ?
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- [16:45:32] <SignpostMarv>
I suppose there may be some circumstances where microformats can't represent data without putting too much hidden stuff into the document
- [16:46:19] <SignpostMarv>
but I don't think there are many instances where using microformats would be less beneficial than using an external document
- [16:46:36] <SignpostMarv>
though I am in a situation where I may need to put stuff into an external document for ease of use :-P
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- [16:59:18] <tobyink>
Advantages to microformats: it's all in your HTML - nothing external. Thus when you update your page, there isn't any external data to update separately. Stops your human-readable and machine-readable information being out of sync.
- [16:59:42] <tobyink>
Of course, if your human and machine readable data is all generated automatically from a database, that's less of a concern.
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- [17:13:00] * SignpostMarv wonders how much stuff on the net *isn't* generated by a database
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- [17:14:45] * tobyink reads SignpostMarv's mind and thinks that it's probably a small minority, but that manually generated content tends to have a slightly higher good-stuff-to-crap ratio.
- [17:17:23] <SignpostMarv>
do you recall the early days of the web with geocities etc. and manually coded html with blink tags and hideos gifs ?
- [17:17:24] * mefisto (n=mef`@zelli-kojas.lanet.lv) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [17:18:11] <tfurgeson>
What about "Under construction" graphics?
- [17:18:14] <tfurgeson>
:)
- [17:18:53] <SignpostMarv>
now known as "beta" :-P
- [17:19:13] <tfurgeson>
yea - I love sites that are in beta with 100,000 users :)
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- [17:20:28] <tobyink>
Still - consider all those spam blogs published by robots and results pages from search engines. There's an awful lot of database-generated pages that contain useless rubbish.
- [17:21:15] <tobyink>
With manually created pages, there is at least some effort required to create each page, so a little bit of negative incentive to useless crud.
- [17:22:18] <SignpostMarv>
isn't manual content creation only a matter of necessity ?
- [17:23:39] <SignpostMarv>
i think only students code stuff manually any more, lol
- [17:23:49] <tobyink>
I still publish a lot of documents by manually marking them up, and occasionally adding a PHP header/footer. For small sites with one maintainer, it's easier that way.
- [17:24:04] <SignpostMarv>
your average web user will use a blogger/LJ/wordpress blog
- [17:24:49] <tobyink>
quite possibly.
- [17:25:13] <tobyink>
Of course, the division between manual and database-generated isn't a clean one - it's a sliding scale.
- [17:25:31] <SignpostMarv>
there's server-side includes as well
- [17:26:07] <tobyink>
Wikipedia is very much database-backed, but the content is further up the "hand-authored" scale than a Google results page.
- [17:26:58] <tobyink>
i.e. no creativity went into http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=afdvgsdfgsdfg
- [17:27:21] <tobyink>
(Maybe SearchWiki will change that though.)
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- [17:29:09] <SignpostMarv>
hehe
- [17:29:24] <SignpostMarv>
tobyink- did you read my earlier blurb on an issue I'm considering for my site ?
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- [17:51:43] <SignpostMarv>
poke
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- [18:54:12] <tfurgeson>
As a newbie to this 'scene' I'm still trying to sort out the good useful links to the not so helpful ones. Which site(s) would be the leaders if I was trying to search by microformat, like if I wanted a list of all movies reviewed in hreview format?
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- [19:33:31] <SignpostMarv>
tfurgeson: have you checked the "examples in the wild" article for hReview ?
- [19:34:47] <tfurgeson>
SignpostMarv: yea, that just shows some examples, I'm thinking that if I wanted to build an application that aggregated a certain type of review do I need to crawl all sites myself or is there someplace that has crawled/indexed sites by their semantic data.
- [19:35:37] <tfurgeson>
I guess to me the purpose of having these semantic markups on data is so machines can use them, but if the machines don't know about them ...
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- [19:37:10] <SignpostMarv>
well there is pingerati, but that seems to be rather...
- [19:37:10] <SignpostMarv>
dead ?
- [19:37:36] <SignpostMarv>
http://pingerati.net/
- [19:37:43] <SignpostMarv>
you might want to invent one yourself :-P
- [19:38:28] <tfurgeson>
I found http://sindice.com/ - but my results were not very promising.
- [19:38:48] <SignpostMarv>
hrm ?
- [19:39:12] <tfurgeson>
I wish I had time to invent one :)
- [19:39:51] <tfurgeson>
(or the knowledge really - but I can work on that)
- [19:40:28] <tfurgeson>
I tried to search sindice for hReviews and I got back some pages that weren't hreviews, no Yahoo Local results ever came up, etc.
- [19:41:26] <SignpostMarv>
for some reason, sindice wants people to use some rather verbose sitemap format that they invented themselves
- [19:42:02] <SignpostMarv>
instead of the more common sitemap format
- [19:48:36] <tfurgeson>
Yea - I haven't been impressed - but the list of sites with their formats is nice. http://sindice.com/map
- [19:49:37] <mfbot>
JayMyers edited hproduct-examples "adding additional detail to examples after further review" (+105) http://is.gd/gRL4
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- [20:05:22] <mfbot>
JayMyers edited hproduct-examples "additional changes" (+10) http://is.gd/gRSM
- [20:07:44] * SignpostMarv decided to generate XOXO documents instead of messing about with XPath
- [20:08:24] <SignpostMarv>
http://agni.sl.marvulous.co.uk/resident/SignpostMarv+Martin.xoxo
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- [20:50:35] <mfbot>
JayMyers edited hproduct-examples "adding product code to leotard world" (+14) http://is.gd/gSf6
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- [21:42:01] <mfbot>
JayMyers edited hproduct-examples "added analysis of product sites" (+1179) http://is.gd/gSGT
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- [21:45:03] <mfbot>
JayMyers edited hproduct-examples "making anchor more url friendly" (-22) http://is.gd/gSIw
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