IRC Log for #microformats on 2010-02-12
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [05:40:53] <boblet>
for dtend implied date, is this part of hCalendar now? the “could” language makes me wonder if it’s a proposal…
- [05:41:04] <boblet>
http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern#hCalendar_dtend_implied_date
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- [06:36:07] <tantek>
boblet - yes it's been incorporated into hCalendar
- [06:36:13] * tantek takes a look at vcp
- [06:36:47] <tantek>
oh the *implied* date
- [06:37:38] <tantek>
that's part of vcp - thus if an implementation implements hCalendar + vcp, they are expected to support that
- [06:38:10] <tantek>
originally I misread what you said and was talking about the dtend-inclusive issue resolution, which has been incorporated into hCalendar
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- [07:08:40] <boblet>
tantek: aah, that makes sense. thanks
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- [07:33:31] <boblet>
strange. it seems Operator supports value-class pattern and implied dtend, but for <span class="dtend">21:00</span> I get “dtend=2010-02-1721”
- [07:36:16] <boblet>
full code: <span class="dtstart"><abbr class="value" title="2010-02-17">2010年02月17日</abbr> <span class="value">19:00</span></span>時から<span class="dtend">21:00</span>時まで
- [07:52:45] <tantek>
boblet, try putting the 21:00 inside a <span class="value">
- [07:52:46] <tantek>
e.g.
- [07:53:00] <tantek>
<span class="dtend"><span class="value">21:00</span></span>
- [07:54:41] <boblet>
yep, that fixes it, but the vcp wiki page mentions this
- [07:55:05] <boblet>
I see on closer reading it’s a “hCalendar processors could…”
- [07:55:29] <boblet>
so I guess Operator hasn’t implemented that part
- [07:55:34] <tantek>
boblet, likely because the test case checks the code as I wrote it
- [07:56:00] <boblet>
heh, there’s always another test case to write :)
- [07:56:21] <tantek>
because <span class="dtend"><span class="value">21:00</span></span> uses the vcp explicitly
- [07:56:22] <boblet>
tantek: I don’t envy you in that job
- [07:57:01] <boblet>
cool—I’ll use the verbose way
- [07:57:10] <tantek>
whereas <span class="dtend">21:00</span> does not use vcp, and will have to await hCalendar 1.1
- [07:57:35] <tantek>
supporting just <span class="dtend"><span class="value">21:00</span></span> to begin with was the more conservative path to take
- [07:57:51] <boblet>
so hCalendar + vpc is kind of an addition to hCalendar 1.0?
- [07:58:08] <tantek>
well there are two additions
- [07:58:11] <boblet>
(I assumed a newer version of the spec)
- [07:58:11] <tantek>
vcp
- [07:58:39] <tantek>
and the implied dtend date (without requiring vcp)
- [07:59:48] <boblet>
actually given how static uF were for a looong time, I’m pleasantly surprised by the nice changes I’m finding (vpc, inclusive dtend etc)
- [08:00:20] <boblet>
will hCalendar 1.1 be coming soon? or is it waiting on HTML5?
- [08:00:38] <tantek>
it's not waiting on HTML5
- [08:02:53] <tantek>
it's mostly the editor (me in this case) going through all the resolved issues and brainstorming bits and incorporating them into a new draft
- [08:03:26] <boblet>
so no <time datetime=""> huh
- [08:05:26] <boblet>
how ill-advised would it be to write something like:
- [08:05:34] <boblet>
<time class="dtstart" datetime="2010-02-17T19:00:00+0900"><abbr class="value" title="2010-02-17">2010年2月17日</abbr>、<abbr class="value" title="19:00:00+0900">19時</abbr></time>
- [08:06:21] <boblet>
Operator parses this correctly, ignoring datetime but picking up values
- [08:06:39] <boblet>
but I wonder if it’d be bad once <time> is officially supported
- [08:11:21] <tantek>
it's fine for FF since it parses the <time> element
- [08:11:27] <tantek>
but not for all browsers
- [08:11:35] <tantek>
e.g. not sure if Safari parses the <time> element
- [08:11:50] <tantek>
and certainly not sure if hCalendar consuming tools parse the <time> element
- [08:12:04] <tantek>
for example, H2VX does not, because it uses Tidy, and Tidy strips out the <time> element
- [08:12:33] <tantek>
the safer, more "bulletproof" method would be to put a <span class="dtstart"> immediately inside the <time> element.
- [08:23:09] <boblet>
tantek: thanks for giving me some things to think about. I’m gonna experiment a little
- [08:23:37] <tantek>
I'm writing up the detail re dtend implied into hCalendar brainstorming so it doesn't get lost.
- [08:24:55] <boblet>
one final q—the conversation that led to XFN was at SxSW 2003, right? it was first mentioned on your blog Nov 2003
- [08:25:58] <tantek>
yes
- [08:26:02] <tantek>
more on that here
- [08:26:07] <boblet>
(doing a uF and Microdata talk, and wanting to include a little history overview)
- [08:26:09] <tantek>
http://microformats.org/wiki/history
- [08:26:58] <boblet>
doh—how did I miss that
- [08:29:12] <tantek>
also, captured now in hCalendar brainstorming
- [08:29:13] <tantek>
http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-brainstorming#implied_dtend
- [08:30:30] <boblet>
nice :)
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- [08:35:06] <tantek>
hello teleject
- [08:35:49] <teleject>
Hey
- [08:36:01] <tantek>
greetings teleject
- [08:36:08] <teleject>
Hi, Tantek!
- [08:36:25] <teleject>
I was wondering if you could help me with a question on microformats.
- [08:36:32] <teleject>
I want to add business hours to an hcard.
- [08:36:48] <teleject>
And would like to know what would be a recommended direction for coding it.
- [08:37:00] <teleject>
business hours would include M-F
- [08:37:04] <teleject>
as well as weekends
- [08:37:08] <teleject>
and maybe include holidays
- [08:37:09] <tantek>
this is a very good question
- [08:37:17] <tantek>
obviously the business itself should be marked up as an hCard
- [08:37:21] <teleject>
(Holidays might be easier to add since they are specific.)
- [08:37:25] <teleject>
Right.
- [08:37:34] <tantek>
so you *could* mark up the business hours as hCalendar events
- [08:37:41] <tantek>
it's the best we have at the moment
- [08:37:44] <teleject>
Ah
- [08:38:03] <teleject>
I'm going to throw this potential grenade out there
- [08:38:09] <tantek>
as in the "event" would be "open for business" or "open" or "serving customers" etc.
- [08:38:20] <tantek>
and the hours would simply be a repeating event
- [08:38:22] <teleject>
Would the HTML5 element be something to look into?
- [08:38:33] <tantek>
and the location would be the hCard
- [08:38:43] <tantek>
looks like your HTML got trimmed
- [08:38:51] <tantek>
I saw "Would the HTML5 element"
- [08:38:59] <tantek>
try using [] instead
- [08:39:01] <teleject>
HTML5 time element
- [08:39:02] <tantek>
e.g. [time]
- [08:39:04] <tantek>
heh
- [08:39:06] <tantek>
yes
- [08:39:14] <tantek>
we were just discussing that earlier
- [08:39:38] <teleject>
really?
- [08:39:38] <tantek>
the challenge is that today's browser, user agents, search engines don't support [time] very well
- [08:39:44] <teleject>
Right.
- [08:40:05] <tantek>
yes - here are the handy logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/microformats/20100212
- [08:41:08] <tantek>
teleject, check out the log starting here: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/microformats/20100212#l-73
- [08:41:35] <teleject>
I will....
- [08:42:04] <tantek>
cool
- [08:42:07] <tantek>
off to bed for me
- [08:42:09] <teleject>
I have a general question
- [08:42:14] <teleject>
okay...
- [08:42:24] <teleject>
I will look this over
- [08:42:34] <teleject>
if anything, I will probably go with mixing microformats
- [08:42:45] <teleject>
Have a good night!
- [08:42:49] <tantek>
yes - compound microformats work well!
- [08:44:10] <teleject>
thanks for your time as always!
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- [08:47:14] <boblet>
I’m off too. Thanks again for your help Tantek. I’ll ping you with the preso next week (although it’ll be in Japanese :/)
- [08:47:30] <boblet>
l8r
- [08:48:00] <tantek>
boblet - a Japanese preso on microformats sounds cool!
- [08:48:11] <tantek>
be sure to add it to http://microformats.org/wiki/presentations
- [08:48:27] <tantek>
and list your talk on the events page too: http://microformats.org/wiki/events
- [08:48:37] <boblet>
uF is fine, I’ve used them enough. It’s the Microdata part that worries me
- [08:48:46] <boblet>
well, that and the Japanese part :D
- [08:49:41] <boblet>
will add links to the event, & slides when I have some
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- [16:39:05] <mwunsch>
Dates and Times are hard :-\
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