IRC Log for #microformats on 2010-02-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  27. [05:40:53] <boblet> for dtend implied date, is this part of hCalendar now? the “could” language makes me wonder if it’s a proposal…
  28. [05:41:04] <boblet> http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern#hCalendar_dtend_implied_date
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  31. [06:36:07] <tantek> boblet - yes it's been incorporated into hCalendar
  32. [06:36:13] * tantek takes a look at vcp
  33. [06:36:47] <tantek> oh the *implied* date
  34. [06:37:38] <tantek> that's part of vcp - thus if an implementation implements hCalendar + vcp, they are expected to support that
  35. [06:38:10] <tantek> originally I misread what you said and was talking about the dtend-inclusive issue resolution, which has been incorporated into hCalendar
  36. [06:47:53] * dglazkov (~dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: dglazkov)
  37. [07:08:40] <boblet> tantek: aah, that makes sense. thanks
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  40. [07:33:31] <boblet> strange. it seems Operator supports value-class pattern and implied dtend, but for <span class="dtend">21:00</span> I get “dtend=2010-02-1721”
  41. [07:36:16] <boblet> full code: <span class="dtstart"><abbr class="value" title="2010-02-17">2010年02月17日</abbr> <span class="value">19:00</span></span>時から<span class="dtend">21:00</span>時まで
  42. [07:52:45] <tantek> boblet, try putting the 21:00 inside a <span class="value">
  43. [07:52:46] <tantek> e.g.
  44. [07:53:00] <tantek> <span class="dtend"><span class="value">21:00</span></span>
  45. [07:54:41] <boblet> yep, that fixes it, but the vcp wiki page mentions this
  46. [07:55:05] <boblet> I see on closer reading it’s a “hCalendar processors could…”
  47. [07:55:29] <boblet> so I guess Operator hasn’t implemented that part
  48. [07:55:34] <tantek> boblet, likely because the test case checks the code as I wrote it
  49. [07:56:00] <boblet> heh, there’s always another test case to write :)
  50. [07:56:21] <tantek> because <span class="dtend"><span class="value">21:00</span></span> uses the vcp explicitly
  51. [07:56:22] <boblet> tantek: I don’t envy you in that job
  52. [07:57:01] <boblet> cool—I’ll use the verbose way
  53. [07:57:10] <tantek> whereas <span class="dtend">21:00</span> does not use vcp, and will have to await hCalendar 1.1
  54. [07:57:35] <tantek> supporting just <span class="dtend"><span class="value">21:00</span></span> to begin with was the more conservative path to take
  55. [07:57:51] <boblet> so hCalendar + vpc is kind of an addition to hCalendar 1.0?
  56. [07:58:08] <tantek> well there are two additions
  57. [07:58:11] <boblet> (I assumed a newer version of the spec)
  58. [07:58:11] <tantek> vcp
  59. [07:58:39] <tantek> and the implied dtend date (without requiring vcp)
  60. [07:59:48] <boblet> actually given how static uF were for a looong time, I’m pleasantly surprised by the nice changes I’m finding (vpc, inclusive dtend etc)
  61. [08:00:20] <boblet> will hCalendar 1.1 be coming soon? or is it waiting on HTML5?
  62. [08:00:38] <tantek> it's not waiting on HTML5
  63. [08:02:53] <tantek> it's mostly the editor (me in this case) going through all the resolved issues and brainstorming bits and incorporating them into a new draft
  64. [08:03:26] <boblet> so no <time datetime=""> huh
  65. [08:05:26] <boblet> how ill-advised would it be to write something like:
  66. [08:05:34] <boblet> <time class="dtstart" datetime="2010-02-17T19:00:00+0900"><abbr class="value" title="2010-02-17">2010年2月17日</abbr>、<abbr class="value" title="19:00:00+0900">19時</abbr></time>
  67. [08:06:21] <boblet> Operator parses this correctly, ignoring datetime but picking up values
  68. [08:06:39] <boblet> but I wonder if it’d be bad once <time> is officially supported
  69. [08:11:21] <tantek> it's fine for FF since it parses the <time> element
  70. [08:11:27] <tantek> but not for all browsers
  71. [08:11:35] <tantek> e.g. not sure if Safari parses the <time> element
  72. [08:11:50] <tantek> and certainly not sure if hCalendar consuming tools parse the <time> element
  73. [08:12:04] <tantek> for example, H2VX does not, because it uses Tidy, and Tidy strips out the <time> element
  74. [08:12:33] <tantek> the safer, more "bulletproof" method would be to put a <span class="dtstart"> immediately inside the <time> element.
  75. [08:23:09] <boblet> tantek: thanks for giving me some things to think about. I’m gonna experiment a little
  76. [08:23:37] <tantek> I'm writing up the detail re dtend implied into hCalendar brainstorming so it doesn't get lost.
  77. [08:24:55] <boblet> one final q—the conversation that led to XFN was at SxSW 2003, right? it was first mentioned on your blog Nov 2003
  78. [08:25:58] <tantek> yes
  79. [08:26:02] <tantek> more on that here
  80. [08:26:07] <boblet> (doing a uF and Microdata talk, and wanting to include a little history overview)
  81. [08:26:09] <tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/history
  82. [08:26:58] <boblet> doh—how did I miss that
  83. [08:29:12] <tantek> also, captured now in hCalendar brainstorming
  84. [08:29:13] <tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-brainstorming#implied_dtend
  85. [08:30:30] <boblet> nice :)
  86. [08:34:25] * teleject (~christoph@cpe-66-69-217-191.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  87. [08:35:06] <tantek> hello teleject
  88. [08:35:49] <teleject> Hey
  89. [08:36:01] <tantek> greetings teleject
  90. [08:36:08] <teleject> Hi, Tantek!
  91. [08:36:25] <teleject> I was wondering if you could help me with a question on microformats.
  92. [08:36:32] <teleject> I want to add business hours to an hcard.
  93. [08:36:48] <teleject> And would like to know what would be a recommended direction for coding it.
  94. [08:37:00] <teleject> business hours would include M-F
  95. [08:37:04] <teleject> as well as weekends
  96. [08:37:08] <teleject> and maybe include holidays
  97. [08:37:09] <tantek> this is a very good question
  98. [08:37:17] <tantek> obviously the business itself should be marked up as an hCard
  99. [08:37:21] <teleject> (Holidays might be easier to add since they are specific.)
  100. [08:37:25] <teleject> Right.
  101. [08:37:34] <tantek> so you *could* mark up the business hours as hCalendar events
  102. [08:37:41] <tantek> it's the best we have at the moment
  103. [08:37:44] <teleject> Ah
  104. [08:38:03] <teleject> I'm going to throw this potential grenade out there
  105. [08:38:09] <tantek> as in the "event" would be "open for business" or "open" or "serving customers" etc.
  106. [08:38:20] <tantek> and the hours would simply be a repeating event
  107. [08:38:22] <teleject> Would the HTML5 element be something to look into?
  108. [08:38:33] <tantek> and the location would be the hCard
  109. [08:38:43] <tantek> looks like your HTML got trimmed
  110. [08:38:51] <tantek> I saw "Would the HTML5 element"
  111. [08:38:59] <tantek> try using [] instead
  112. [08:39:01] <teleject> HTML5 time element
  113. [08:39:02] <tantek> e.g. [time]
  114. [08:39:04] <tantek> heh
  115. [08:39:06] <tantek> yes
  116. [08:39:14] <tantek> we were just discussing that earlier
  117. [08:39:38] <teleject> really?
  118. [08:39:38] <tantek> the challenge is that today's browser, user agents, search engines don't support [time] very well
  119. [08:39:44] <teleject> Right.
  120. [08:40:05] <tantek> yes - here are the handy logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/microformats/20100212
  121. [08:41:08] <tantek> teleject, check out the log starting here: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/microformats/20100212#l-73
  122. [08:41:35] <teleject> I will....
  123. [08:42:04] <tantek> cool
  124. [08:42:07] <tantek> off to bed for me
  125. [08:42:09] <teleject> I have a general question
  126. [08:42:14] <teleject> okay...
  127. [08:42:24] <teleject> I will look this over
  128. [08:42:34] <teleject> if anything, I will probably go with mixing microformats
  129. [08:42:45] <teleject> Have a good night!
  130. [08:42:49] <tantek> yes - compound microformats work well!
  131. [08:44:10] <teleject> thanks for your time as always!
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  134. [08:47:14] <boblet> I’m off too. Thanks again for your help Tantek. I’ll ping you with the preso next week (although it’ll be in Japanese :/)
  135. [08:47:30] <boblet> l8r
  136. [08:48:00] <tantek> boblet - a Japanese preso on microformats sounds cool!
  137. [08:48:11] <tantek> be sure to add it to http://microformats.org/wiki/presentations
  138. [08:48:27] <tantek> and list your talk on the events page too: http://microformats.org/wiki/events
  139. [08:48:37] <boblet> uF is fine, I’ve used them enough. It’s the Microdata part that worries me
  140. [08:48:46] <boblet> well, that and the Japanese part :D
  141. [08:49:41] <boblet> will add links to the event, & slides when I have some
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  174. [16:39:05] <mwunsch> Dates and Times are hard :-\
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