IRC Log for #openid on 2006-12-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:05:18] * hober2 is now known as hober
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  28. [10:18:05] * sanedragon (n=sanedrag@c-71-236-228-127.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  30. [11:11:43] * sanedragon (n=sanedrag@c-71-236-228-127.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #openid
  31. [11:11:43] <jibot> sanedragon is an engineer for JanRain named Dag
  32. [11:11:45] * _keturn (n=acapnoti@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/keturn) has joined #openid
  33. [13:10:28] * SamRose (n=chatzill@brick.voyager.net) has joined #openid
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  37. [16:52:26] * dorren (n=dorren@ool-43522df4.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #openid
  38. [16:52:41] <dorren> hello
  39. [16:53:10] <dorren> anybody home?
  40. [16:54:06] * derekS (n=DerekS@unaffiliated/dereks) has left #openid
  41. [17:04:00] * dorren (n=dorren@ool-43522df4.dyn.optonline.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0/0000000000]")
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  43. [17:30:27] * cygnus (n=cygnus@198.145.244.134) has joined #openid
  44. [17:30:27] <jibot> cygnus is WorkerBee(name="Jonathan Daugherty", company="JanRain, Inc.")
  45. [17:42:13] * brianellin (n=brianell@c-71-236-228-127.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #openid
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  49. [19:01:11] * mmell (n=mmell@adsl-75-35-154-20.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) Quit ("Quitting!")
  50. [19:01:26] <SamRose> ? learn <SamRose> is <not as smart as he thinks he is. But when he is thinking smart, can be found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, and http://blog.p2pfoundaion.com>
  51. [19:01:26] <jibot> <SamRose> is <not as smart as he thinks he is. But when he is thinking smart, can be found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, and http://blog.p2pfoundaion.com>
  52. [19:02:38] * mmell (n=mmell@adsl-75-35-154-20.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) has joined #openid
  53. [19:03:20] <SamRose> ? learn SamRose is not as smart as he thinks he is. But when he is thinking smart, can be found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, and http://blog.p2pfoundaion.com
  54. [19:03:21] <jibot> SamRose is not as smart as he thinks he is. But when he is thinking smart, can be found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, and http://blog.p2pfoundaion.com
  55. [19:05:11] * SamRose (n=chatzill@brick.voyager.net) has left #openid
  56. [19:05:23] * SamRose (n=chatzill@brick.voyager.net) has joined #openid
  57. [19:10:39] * SamRose (n=chatzill@brick.voyager.net) has left #openid
  58. [19:10:46] * SamRose (n=chatzill@brick.voyager.net) has joined #openid
  59. [19:11:14] <SamRose> ?herald
  60. [19:11:14] <jibot> Stopped heralding
  61. [19:11:19] <SamRose> ?herald
  62. [19:11:19] <jibot> Started heralding
  63. [19:25:30] * daleolds (i=daleolds@nat/novell/x-320500087eee04b4) Quit ("bye")
  64. [19:38:16] <terrell> SamRose: p2pfoundation link broken
  65. [19:38:18] <terrell> missing t
  66. [19:38:37] <SamRose> damn!
  67. [19:43:24] <SamRose> ? learn SamRose is not as smart as he thinks he is. But when he is thinking smart, can be found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, and http://blog.p2pfoundation.com
  68. [19:43:24] <jibot> SamRose is not as smart as he thinks he is. But when he is thinking smart, can be found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, and http://blog.p2pfoundaion.com and not as smart as he thinks he is. But when he is thinking smart, can be found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, and http://blog.p2pfoundation.com
  69. [19:44:10] <SamRose> ?forget SamRose is not as smart as he thinks he is. But when he is thinking smart, can be found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, and http://blog.p2pfoundaion.com and not as smart as he thinks he is. But when he is thinking smart, can be found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, and http://blog.p2pfoundation.com
  70. [19:44:10] <jibot> I no longer know anything about SamRose
  71. [19:44:20] <SamRose> SamRose is not as smart as he thinks he is. But when he is thinking smart, can be found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, and http://blog.p2pfoundaion.com and not as smart as he thinks he is. But when he is thinking smart, can be found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, and http://blog.p2pfoundation.com
  72. [19:45:25] <gregh> wow, that's annoying
  73. [19:45:31] <SamRose> ? learn SamRose is not as smart as he thinks he is. But when he is thinking smart, can be found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, and http://blog.p2pfoundation.com
  74. [19:45:32] <jibot> SamRose is not as smart as he thinks he is. But when he is thinking smart, can be found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, and http://blog.p2pfoundation.com
  75. [19:45:38] <SamRose> sorry bout that
  76. [19:46:23] <terrell> it does seem like the conversation with jibot could be like it is with chanserv/nickserv - i guess it needs context though
  77. [19:47:18] <SamRose> can you all see commands to jibot?
  78. [19:47:30] <SamRose> it won't take commands outside of a channel
  79. [19:47:58] * Cody`macbook (n=Cody@74-129-174-25.dhcp.insightbb.com) has joined #openid
  80. [19:48:28] <Cody`macbook> Can anyone give me a run down on how hard it would be to integrate OpenID into my application?
  81. [19:49:20] <sanedragon> well, it really depends. what kind of application do you have?
  82. [19:49:21] <gregh> as a provider or a consumer? what language does your app use?
  83. [19:49:45] <Cody`macbook> PHP application. I'd most likely be a consumer for now
  84. [19:50:42] <gregh> there's a php openid library for consumers that everybody seems to use
  85. [19:51:00] <Cody`macbook> Fairly easy to use lib?
  86. [19:51:09] <Cody`macbook> I skimmed the specs and such, so I kind of have the basics
  87. [19:51:15] <gregh> http://www.openidenabled.com/openid/libraries/php
  88. [19:51:21] <Cody`macbook> yeah, just downloaded that
  89. [19:51:31] <gregh> I haven't used that lib specifically
  90. [19:51:31] <Cody`macbook> compiling gmp right now so I haven't been able to test
  91. [19:51:46] <Cody`macbook> Used any php one at all or coded your own?
  92. [19:52:03] <gregh> I wrote my own identity provider
  93. [19:52:33] <Cody`macbook> ah
  94. [19:52:58] <sanedragon> gregh, are you the author of phpMyID?
  95. [19:53:15] <gregh> no, mine is in python
  96. [19:53:29] <gregh> very similar in concept to phpmyid though
  97. [19:54:07] <sanedragon> are you using libs (I hope) or rolling your own?
  98. [19:54:30] <gregh> I rolled my own, I wanted to understand how the protocol works
  99. [19:54:42] * sanedragon nods.
  100. [19:55:20] <gregh> so currently my code is is a .py cgi with no dependencies aside from python itself
  101. [19:56:23] <sanedragon> at least you get big integer math in python as opposed to PHP
  102. [19:56:35] <Cody`macbook> hehe working on that atm
  103. [19:56:52] <Cody`macbook> luckily php compiles take ~10 minutes on this macbook
  104. [19:56:58] <Cody`macbook> these core 2 duos are amazing at compiles
  105. [19:59:18] <sanedragon> I'm curious to see the outcome of the proliferation of server implementations.
  106. [20:01:21] <Cody`macbook> What exactly is it suppose to do?
  107. [20:01:26] <sanedragon> those using libraries will have a much easier time with the 2.0 upgrade.
  108. [20:01:31] <Cody`macbook> nice
  109. [20:01:34] <sanedragon> cody, what?
  110. [20:01:47] <sanedragon> I mean, to what are you referring?
  111. [20:01:48] <Cody`macbook> the proliferation of server implementations
  112. [20:02:02] <Cody`macbook> I haven't really looked into openid until today
  113. [20:03:09] <sanedragon> Well more people are writing their own openid code from scratch instead of using libraries, which will make changes more difficult, and security problems harder to track down
  114. [20:03:31] <Cody`macbook> ah
  115. [20:03:36] <gregh> well using libraries doesn't really absolve you from security problems
  116. [20:03:42] <Cody`macbook> like the recent one myopenid is said to have
  117. [20:03:47] <cygnus> gregh: no, but it makes them much less likely to occur
  118. [20:04:06] <cygnus> gregh: a 200-line hack is not the same as a several-thousand-line well-abstracted unit-tested library. :)
  119. [20:04:24] <gregh> yeah
  120. [20:04:39] <cygnus> not that all libraries have those properties, of course
  121. [20:04:59] <sanedragon> Cody`macbook, what security problem is that?
  122. [20:05:09] <Cody`macbook> one sec, let me get link
  123. [20:05:11] <cygnus> heh
  124. [20:05:32] <SamRose> is there already an effort to test OpenID security. such as contests to see if people can game or hack their way past it?
  125. [20:05:41] <Cody`macbook> http://openid.phpbb.cc/closedmindness/
  126. [20:05:49] <sanedragon> Aw jeez
  127. [20:06:01] <cygnus> oh yeah, that.
  128. [20:06:28] <Cody`macbook> has it been confirmed/denied yet?
  129. [20:06:39] <Cody`macbook> the way that rambles on I'm not sure whether to trust or not
  130. [20:06:42] <cygnus> we communicated with him at length about it.
  131. [20:06:45] <sanedragon> http://kveton.com/blog/2006/11/26/on-security-vulnerabilities/
  132. [20:08:25] <sanedragon> full disclosure: that's the blog of the CEO of the company cygnus and I work for
  133. [20:08:42] <Cody`macbook> ah work for janrain, eh?
  134. [20:08:43] <sanedragon> but, that guy doesn't know what he's talking about
  135. [20:08:57] <Cody`macbook> You guys did some nice integration with zooomr on the last update, grats
  136. [20:09:07] <Cody`macbook> okay that's good
  137. [20:09:43] <Cody`macbook> I guess I'll give it a go then :)
  138. [20:09:49] <sanedragon> :)
  139. [20:10:27] <Cody`macbook> it's kind of important since my site has a lot to do with forums
  140. [20:12:47] <sanedragon> oh, yeah, openid is perfect for forums
  141. [20:13:03] <Cody`macbook> it also comes in handy with an idea i have for an api
  142. [20:13:07] <Cody`macbook> since it's multidomain
  143. [20:13:18] <sanedragon> I can't count the number of forums I've not used because I had to create an account
  144. [20:13:32] <sanedragon> cool.
  145. [20:13:32] <Cody`macbook> same here
  146. [20:16:58] <Cody`macbook> Any idea on how long it usually takes to integrate?
  147. [20:17:45] <sanedragon> It really depends on the structure of your app. PHP is not my area, either....
  148. [20:19:06] <sanedragon> As far as the database goes, you probably want to either add an openid column to your users table or add a separate identifiers table to allow multiple identifiers per user.
  149. [20:19:58] <sanedragon> And you'll need to write the application-level openid handling stuff, which I really have no idea about in PHP.
  150. [20:20:14] <Cody`macbook> I'll probably add an openid field
  151. [20:20:19] <Cody`macbook> alright doesn't seem too bad
  152. [20:20:30] <Cody`macbook> Thanks for the help/suggestions.
  153. [20:20:37] * tango_ (n=tex_vim@host-84-221-17-93.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) has joined #openid
  154. [20:20:48] <sanedragon> sure, pipe up if you have more questions.
  155. [20:21:02] <Cody`macbook> will do
  156. [20:21:02] <gregh> some apps I've seen use openid as an alternative to password
  157. [20:21:24] <gregh> that way users can keep their same identity while migrating to openid
  158. [20:21:43] <sanedragon> yeah, you may or may not wish to remove the password field.
  159. [20:21:43] <gregh> others use a new identity (the name of your openid) when logging in with openid
  160. [20:23:29] <Cody`macbook> alright
  161. [20:38:01] <gregh> heh I just read that closedmindness thing. I want my ten minutes back.
  162. [20:39:42] <cygnus> HAHA
  163. [20:39:46] * cygnus nods at gregh
  164. [20:40:12] <cygnus> cygnus: I want back the hours of my life that I spent dealing with it
  165. [20:40:16] <cygnus> er, gregh. :)
  166. [20:41:46] <gregh> no doubt
  167. [20:42:52] <Cody`macbook> problem is, if he finishes that mod, people will use it
  168. [20:43:02] <Cody`macbook> and people will believe what he says since he wrote the mod
  169. [20:43:29] <cygnus> we'll see. we want it to just blow over.
  170. [20:43:38] <cygnus> as there's nothing about which to make a fuss.
  171. [20:43:50] <Cody`macbook> yeah
  172. [20:44:01] <gregh> best way to combat that is to have lots of positive support for openid, causing the misdirected rants to get lost in the noise
  173. [20:44:09] * cygnus nods
  174. [20:44:11] <Cody`macbook> yep :)
  175. [20:44:16] <cygnus> or get lost in the signal, rather. :)
  176. [20:44:45] <cygnus> but yeah. life goes on.
  177. [20:51:37] <Cody`macbook> If I redirect to myopenid.com/signup, does it check referrer and return the information based on the settings I've created in my affiliate options? Because zooomr redirects to myopenid.com/signup with no query string
  178. [20:51:58] <cygnus> Zooomr is a special case, which we will eventually convert to an ordinary affiliate.
  179. [20:52:13] <cygnus> If you want to use the affiliate program, provide users with a link to your affiliate signup URL, which is supplied to you by the affiliate UI on our site.
  180. [20:52:31] <cygnus> (redirecting to that URL is sufficient.)
  181. [20:52:34] <Cody`macbook> alright
  182. [20:52:51] <Cody`macbook> /signup just looks nicer, so I figured I'd double check
  183. [20:53:16] <cygnus> /affiliate_signup looks essentially the same, except it contains info about your affiliate. If you have suggestions on how to improve it, please let me know :)
  184. [20:53:38] <cygnus> (it's true that /affiliate_signup is a little busier.)
  185. [20:53:55] <terrell> but if they're both just links - from other places - people won't be typing it
  186. [20:54:06] <terrell> conveying what a page is - in the url - is key
  187. [20:54:08] <Cody`macbook> I know, I was just talking in general.
  188. [20:54:11] <cygnus> terrell: I thought he meant the page appearance, sorry.
  189. [20:54:25] <terrell> oh, well - that too :)
  190. [20:54:27] <cygnus> :)
  191. [20:55:16] <Cody`macbook> Would be interesting if we could provide some css to make the form match the site, but completely not necessary
  192. [20:55:26] <Cody`macbook> I'm pretty pleased so far
  193. [20:55:34] <Cody`macbook> and thanks for that php lib, very simple
  194. [20:56:14] <cygnus> Cody`macbook: if you run into any trouble, mail me at cygnus@janrain.com. I maintain the PHP lib.
  195. [20:56:36] <Cody`macbook> Will do
  196. [20:58:52] <terrell> but that's cheating :)
  197. [21:12:13] <Cody`macbook> hmm. my affiliates disappeared after registering another openid account for testing using the same email
  198. [21:12:31] <Cody`macbook> hmm back now
  199. [21:15:42] * SamRose (n=chatzill@brick.voyager.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 1.5.0.8/0000000000]")
  200. [22:09:27] * brianellin (n=brianell@c-71-236-228-127.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has left #openid
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  202. [23:29:42] * tango_ (n=tex_vim@host-84-221-17-93.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) Quit ("Leaving")
  203. [23:37:40] * brianellin (n=brianell@c-71-236-228-127.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #openid
  204. [23:41:55] * Gwyneth_Llewelyn (n=Gwyneth_@87-196-134-170.net.novis.pt) Quit ()
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