IRC Log for #openid on 2007-01-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:00:05] <GabeW> yah
  2. [00:00:05] <GabeW> ;-)
  3. [00:00:37] <GabeW> i just sent to general@openid list
  4. [00:00:45] <osuguy> i didn't see any openid in it, *confused*
  5. [00:00:49] <GabeW> oh sorry
  6. [00:00:53] <GabeW> it predates openid
  7. [00:01:37] <osuguy> ahh ok
  8. [00:01:49] <GabeW> by 5-6 years I think ;-)
  9. [00:01:52] <osuguy> 2003
  10. [00:02:05] <GabeW> i know 3-d secure goes at least back to 2001
  11. [00:02:37] <osuguy> ahh that was just the date of that doc
  12. [00:02:46] <GabeW> yah - version 1.02 of 3-d secure
  13. [00:02:56] <GabeW> 3-d secure goes back to 0.9 i think (in terms of what was implemented)
  14. [00:02:59] <osuguy> i never saw it anywhere
  15. [00:03:12] * tnarg (n=grant@71-214-102-222.ptld.qwest.net) has joined #openid
  16. [00:03:13] <myren> ooc, anyone here tracking SAML?
  17. [00:03:44] <myren> i implemented openid because it took me 4 hours to write a server in .net, but i'm interested to see more cryptographic standards emerge
  18. [00:03:52] <GabeW> osuguy - http://openid.net/pipermail/general/2007-January/001074.html
  19. [00:05:04] * _keturn puts the pieces together
  20. [00:05:52] <_keturn> myren: oh, you're the guy who wrote to us about the controls for asp.net/Boo
  21. [00:06:18] <_keturn> wait, no, wrong pieces!
  22. [00:06:21] <osuguy> ahh i understand now
  23. [00:06:26] * _keturn is hopelessly confused.
  24. [00:06:39] <myren> _keturn: um, I have written controls in asp.net/Boo, but I havent told anyone yet.
  25. [00:07:04] <myren> actually I use MonoRail with the Brails render, but whose counting?
  26. [00:07:42] <_keturn> yeah, that was some other guy, who is not, in fact, you.
  27. [00:09:10] <sipher> Yeah, it seems fairly straight forward in Python too.
  28. [00:10:30] <sipher> You see OpenID's listed as a mandatory requirement in FF3?
  29. [00:19:11] * daleolds (n=daleolds@olds.nu) Quit ("bye")
  30. [00:19:23] * daleolds (n=daleolds@olds.nu) has joined #openid
  31. [00:21:33] * daleolds (n=daleolds@olds.nu) Quit (Client Quit)
  32. [00:29:28] <don-o> nope, where is that at? and i assume you mean firefox not final fantasy. :0
  33. [00:30:32] <gregh> what would firefox need to do to support openid, other than being a browser?
  34. [00:31:22] <don-o> it could detect pages that request an openid url and auto populate the field or even auto sumbit your identity url
  35. [00:31:56] <don-o> so before you even see page X, firefox has negotiated the authorization
  36. [00:33:24] <don-o> or another idea is to have firefox Be the identity server. thats a noodle-baking idea.
  37. [00:33:41] * cote (n=cote@72-48-75-181.dyn.grandenetworks.net) Quit ()
  38. [00:35:49] <gregh> for the former, using a common html field name (mentioned in the openid spec, openid_identifier or something) already lets browsers auto-fill-in the data (like they do for name/address/etc)
  39. [00:36:38] <GabeW> don-o: isn't that basically cardspace model?
  40. [00:37:39] * cygnus` (n=cygnus@c-71-236-228-127.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has left #openid
  41. [00:38:09] <don-o> GabeW: not sure.
  42. [00:38:17] * shigeta (n=shigeta@124x32x114x226.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) has joined #openid
  43. [00:38:36] <don-o> gregh yeah thats what i was thinking of. i dont think any browsers do that yet
  44. [00:38:46] * cygnus (n=cygnus@71.236.228.127) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  45. [01:04:55] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit ("ERC Version 5.1.3 (IRC client for Emacs)")
  46. [01:08:28] * newtMcKerr (n=newtMcKe@osuosl/staff/newtMcKerr) Quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
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  48. [01:19:07] * tnarg (n=grant@71-214-102-222.ptld.qwest.net) Quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
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  51. [01:45:53] * tnarg (n=grant@71.236.228.127) Quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  52. [01:58:42] <osuguy> just read the digg story on openid
  53. [01:58:53] <osuguy> i mean the comments from it
  54. [02:02:06] * j3h (n=j3h@c-71-236-228-127.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  55. [03:02:04] * j3h (n=j3h@24.21.174.195) has joined #openid
  56. [03:34:39] * cote (n=cote@adsl-71-145-201-13.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #openid
  57. [03:42:49] * cote (n=cote@adsl-71-145-201-13.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net) Quit ()
  58. [03:55:41] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl081-245-070.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #openid
  59. [03:59:51] * xlarrydrebes_ (n=xlarrydr@c-71-236-228-127.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  60. [04:20:22] * daleolds (n=daleolds@olds.nu) has joined #openid
  61. [04:22:01] * urgen (i=urgy@c-67-188-71-51.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #openid
  62. [04:22:43] <GabeW> sipher: factoryjoe has a interesting proposition for the new logo - community mark
  63. [04:22:53] <GabeW> but that may not address the previous question about the *current* mark
  64. [04:22:55] <factoryjoe> I proposed this @ IIW
  65. [04:23:11] <GabeW> not sure sipher is actually awake
  66. [04:25:22] <GabeW> anyway, factoryjoe, do you have a reference for the community mark concept?
  67. [04:25:53] <factoryjoe> google it
  68. [04:25:55] <factoryjoe> ;)
  69. [04:25:57] <GabeW> i am
  70. [04:25:59] <factoryjoe> or google barcamp "community mark"
  71. [04:26:11] <GabeW> surprise suprise
  72. [04:26:45] <GabeW> your blog entry comes up - its a year old
  73. [04:26:51] <GabeW> is that the current canonical summary?
  74. [04:27:52] <GabeW> http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2006/01/14/the-case-for-community-marks/
  75. [04:28:03] <factoryjoe> yes
  76. [04:28:06] <factoryjoe> also on barcamp.org
  77. [04:28:08] <factoryjoe> there's something
  78. [04:28:40] * daleolds (n=daleolds@olds.nu) has left #openid
  79. [04:29:23] <GabeW> cool
  80. [04:29:27] <GabeW> this stuff is really interesting
  81. [04:30:56] <factoryjoe> ;)
  82. [04:31:03] <factoryjoe> microformats is a community icon
  83. [04:31:07] <factoryjoe> err mark
  84. [04:31:43] <GabeW> we (david recordon and I) had an interesting discussion about using patent on open standards to protect the right of users - using patents to keep folks from enforcing patents..
  85. [04:32:06] <urgen> self patenting memes will always be free
  86. [04:32:16] <GabeW> whats interesting about community marks is that its not using IP laws at all
  87. [04:32:28] <GabeW> unlike GPL, CC, and the patent mechanism I just mentioned
  88. [04:32:57] <factoryjoe> right
  89. [04:32:59] <GabeW> what I mean, is that no right is being asserted in a legal sense against someone else to prevent them from doing some against the community's interest
  90. [04:33:04] <factoryjoe> it uses the mechanism of community enforcement
  91. [04:33:04] <GabeW> its merely shame
  92. [04:33:12] <factoryjoe> yes
  93. [04:33:18] <factoryjoe> which could have economic consequences
  94. [04:33:23] <GabeW> this works because trademarks are pretty fragile form of IP
  95. [04:33:28] <factoryjoe> well
  96. [04:33:33] <factoryjoe> it costs a boat-load to enforce
  97. [04:33:40] <factoryjoe> it also requires centralization
  98. [04:33:41] <GabeW> in the sense that tehy have to be protected to have value
  99. [04:33:45] <GabeW> yah, exactly
  100. [04:33:46] <factoryjoe> which openid is not about
  101. [04:34:07] <GabeW> and so its hard to *use* trademark to keep things community-based
  102. [04:34:23] <GabeW> unlike (C) and patent which are easier for a community to use because they don't need maintenance
  103. [04:34:29] <GabeW> at least not like trademark
  104. [04:35:10] <factoryjoe> right
  105. [04:35:19] <factoryjoe> you need a lot of supervision w/ trademark
  106. [04:37:08] <GabeW> when I was in law school, there was very little creative use of IP laws - there was no sense of a "community interest" in IP law or the thinknig around it
  107. [04:37:22] <GabeW> there was some "public interest" stuff - Pam Samuelson has started raising a lot of red flags
  108. [04:37:37] <GabeW> but nothing like today
  109. [04:37:48] <factoryjoe> well
  110. [04:37:55] <factoryjoe> today it's also international
  111. [04:37:58] <GabeW> hehe
  112. [04:38:02] <GabeW> well, sorta
  113. [04:38:03] <factoryjoe> so how do you deal w/ legal differences?
  114. [04:38:07] <factoryjoe> in different countries?
  115. [04:38:18] <GabeW> one of the red flags was the process by which big content companies got IP laws changed in the US
  116. [04:38:30] <GabeW> they would lobby overseas and get the US to enter treaties
  117. [04:38:52] <factoryjoe> yup
  118. [04:38:53] <GabeW> and then go back to the US Congress and say "hey, we need to abide by these treaties to protect our content overseas"
  119. [04:38:56] <GabeW> feh
  120. [04:39:17] <GabeW> provided perfect political cover to all parties involved
  121. [04:39:51] <GabeW> also, the world ends up being dominated by high protectionism
  122. [04:40:39] * cote (n=cote@adsl-71-145-201-13.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #openid
  123. [04:40:49] <GabeW> but yay for all the cool legal hacking
  124. [04:41:16] * cote (n=cote@adsl-71-145-201-13.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  125. [04:41:19] <factoryjoe> right on
  126. [04:41:42] <factoryjoe> btw, seen this? http://mozillalinks.org/wp/2007/01/planned-features-for-firefox-3/
  127. [04:41:46] <GabeW> yes
  128. [04:41:50] <factoryjoe> "In the security front: support for Microsoft CardSpace and OpenID (check tomorrow’s article for more coverage on this). Smarter credentials handling."
  129. [04:41:51] <GabeW> someone mentioned that here
  130. [04:41:52] <factoryjoe> w00t
  131. [04:42:09] <GabeW> there was some discussion of exactly what that meant
  132. [04:42:34] <factoryjoe> we'll be having alex faaborg on stodid soon
  133. [04:42:47] <GabeW> cool
  134. [04:43:13] <GabeW> oh, so you should do a stodid on community marks
  135. [04:43:37] <GabeW> i think I'm going to do a stodid podcast on openid & IPR, etc
  136. [04:43:55] <factoryjoe> good call
  137. [04:44:05] <factoryjoe> i have some progressive lawyer friends that i'd love to bring in
  138. [04:44:17] <factoryjoe> they deal in IP, TM and so on
  139. [04:44:21] * daleolds (n=daleolds@olds.nu) has joined #openid
  140. [04:45:03] <GabeW> have you spoken a lot with legal academics about community marks?
  141. [04:45:11] <GabeW> or lawyers in general?
  142. [04:45:55] <factoryjoe> hmm
  143. [04:46:04] <factoryjoe> i tried talking to lessig, but he was pretty dismissive
  144. [04:46:20] <GabeW> hmm
  145. [04:46:20] <factoryjoe> i mean, there's really nothing that says you can't invent your own laws
  146. [04:46:26] <factoryjoe> whether they're enforceable is another story
  147. [04:46:30] <GabeW> right
  148. [04:46:34] <factoryjoe> so i don't rely on the legal system to do my enforcement
  149. [04:46:42] <factoryjoe> i rely on community enforcement
  150. [04:46:43] <GabeW> i mean GPL has issues in that regard iirc
  151. [04:46:46] <GabeW> yah
  152. [04:46:58] <factoryjoe> it takes a leap of faith to make it work
  153. [04:47:03] <GabeW> yah, I think lessig is probably really focused on certain big issues
  154. [04:47:13] <factoryjoe> but in my experience, firefox was almost better with a community policing it's name/brand
  155. [04:47:29] <factoryjoe> well, he's more interested in working within the existing legal framework
  156. [04:47:47] <GabeW> i think thats pragmatism
  157. [04:48:11] <GabeW> community marks are probably most appropriate for a relatively small slice of scenarios
  158. [04:48:19] <GabeW> in the big picture
  159. [04:48:36] <keturn> so, uh, regarding firefox's branding...
  160. [04:48:40] <keturn> _iceweasel_???
  161. [04:48:47] <GabeW> hehe
  162. [04:49:10] <GabeW> next is steamferret
  163. [04:49:56] <factoryjoe> heh
  164. [04:49:58] <GabeW> or better yet - waterwolf
  165. [04:50:03] <factoryjoe> i like it!
  166. [04:50:08] <factoryjoe> smoking monkey
  167. [04:51:46] <myren> +k to steamferret
  168. [04:51:53] <myren> i hope he wears a victorian suit
  169. [04:52:24] <myren> although that firefox *is* kinda ferret-looking
  170. [04:52:43] <factoryjoe> indeed
  171. [04:52:46] <factoryjoe> is it male or female?
  172. [04:53:20] * daleolds (n=daleolds@olds.nu) has left #openid
  173. [04:53:49] <GabeW> how does "SpreadSteamFerret" sound?
  174. [04:54:06] <myren> how DARE you insinuate that fox could even perhaps not be of the gender it so OBVIOUSLY and CLEARLY advertises
  175. [04:54:16] <myren> you FIEND
  176. [04:54:27] <myren> oh good sir forgive me,
  177. [04:54:35] <myren> the ferret is of course a gentle sir
  178. [04:56:30] <factoryjoe> the ferret might be
  179. [04:56:36] <factoryjoe> i think the firefox is female
  180. [04:59:45] * newtMcKerr (n=newtMcKe@osuosl/staff/newtMcKerr) Quit ("Leaving")
  181. [05:07:39] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl081-245-070.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
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  184. [06:03:09] <jibot> xlarrydrebes_ is icechat's dirty little nuisance.
  185. [06:03:11] * xlarrydrebes_ is now known as xlarrydrebes
  186. [06:13:56] <myren> dude you're gonna take that from a bot?
  187. [06:48:43] * tnarg (n=grant@67.189.77.55) Quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
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  190. [07:10:29] * whateley (n=whateley@S01060013463ece73.ed.shawcable.net) Quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
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  194. [07:51:12] <sipher> Made a vector version of the OpenID logo.. let me know if it's not ok and I'll remove it. - http://statusbarn.com/random/openid.svg
  195. [07:51:22] <sipher> It's not exact but it's pretty close
  196. [07:55:09] <gregh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:OpenID_logo.svg is another one
  197. [07:57:25] <sipher> ah!
  198. [07:57:54] <sipher> I'll go with that one then. :)
  199. [07:59:17] <sipher> I like how WP puts the disclaimer about low res works on SVG files. heh
  200. [08:10:51] <gregh> heh yeah
  201. [08:59:09] * sipher (i=sipher@unaffiliated/sipher) Quit ("games")
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  203. [10:15:51] * wolfgangbeck (n=bew@192.166.56.68) has joined #openid
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  206. [12:51:13] <osuguy> http://home.comcast.net/%7Ecmort/OpenIDtoCardSpace.mov good stuff
  207. [13:38:03] * shigeta (n=shigeta@124x32x114x226.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
  208. [13:41:08] * dhofstet (n=dho@212-41-122-43.adsl.solnet.ch) has joined #openid
  209. [13:42:04] <dhofstet> hi all, exists there somewhere a mock implementation of an openid server?
  210. [13:46:15] <osuguy> myopenid.com
  211. [13:49:49] <dhofstet> well, I am looking for something I can run on my local machine (I want to integrate it in my testing environment)
  212. [13:54:25] <osuguy> http://openid.net/wiki/index.php/Libraries
  213. [13:54:37] <osuguy> for single user http://siege.org/projects/phpMyID/
  214. [13:56:41] <dhofstet> thanks, phpMyID looks like it could be adapted to my needs
  215. [13:56:53] <osuguy> great
  216. [13:59:02] * cote (n=cote@adsl-71-145-201-13.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #openid
  217. [14:27:59] <osuguy> i actually got a response from myspace about openid implementation
  218. [14:29:01] <terrell> and...
  219. [14:31:21] <osuguy> they said paraphrasing.. "We will add support when the specification reaches a level of maturity in which security will be proven by other organizations"
  220. [14:31:57] <terrell> meaning.... smaller organizations with less to lose :)
  221. [14:32:06] <osuguy> exactly
  222. [14:32:12] <terrell> but that's good - a show of interest/support
  223. [14:32:14] <osuguy> i see their point with a spec
  224. [14:32:30] <osuguy> yea
  225. [14:32:57] <osuguy> they are all scared of a security hole being discovered
  226. [14:33:19] <osuguy> hopefully that will be addressed sometime this year
  227. [14:53:11] * rokerr (n=rowan@CPE00095bdde585-CM0011ae91b176.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #openid
  228. [14:53:59] * SamRose (n=chatzill@c-71-197-25-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #openid
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  236. [16:29:16] <wolfgangbeck> what should the consumer do with a cancel, reason=authenticate as xy?
  237. [16:29:27] <wolfgangbeck> on a checkid_setup?
  238. [16:30:53] <wolfgangbeck> has anyone implemented openid 1.1 from the spec without reverse engineering an existing implementation?
  239. [16:44:03] * xlarrydrebes (n=xlarrydr@c-71-236-228-127.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #openid
  240. [16:44:03] <jibot> xlarrydrebes is yet another Janrain idler.
  241. [17:02:13] * rokerr (n=rowan@CPE00095bdde585-CM0011ae91b176.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  248. [18:09:17] * cygnus (n=cygnus@c-71-236-228-127.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #openid
  249. [18:09:18] <jibot> cygnus is WorkerBee(name="Jonathan Daugherty", company="JanRain, Inc.")
  250. [18:26:47] * peace-keeper (i=peace-ke@m246.net81-66-138.noos.fr) has joined #openid
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  267. [21:05:04] * daleolds (i=daleolds@nat/novell/x-8a049a15ed98f25d) Quit ("bye")
  268. [21:08:55] <rokerr> lucky west-coast people
  269. [21:12:24] * daleolds (i=daleolds@nat/novell/x-a114293ee3c72f3c) has joined #openid
  270. [21:14:33] <chowells79> We're lucky?
  271. [21:15:10] <cygnus> evidently.
  272. [21:15:17] <rokerr> well .. you have all the snow, and the mashpits next week. heh
  273. [21:15:47] <cygnus> snow?
  274. [21:15:49] * cygnus looks around
  275. [21:15:55] <cygnus> I see a flake or two from a while back
  276. [21:16:02] <cygnus> there's mostly just frozen puddles.
  277. [21:16:07] <rokerr> in the mountains perhaps
  278. [21:16:28] <cygnus> the valley here in PDX gets basically no snow.
  279. [21:16:31] <cygnus> yeah.
  280. [21:16:33] <cygnus> mountains get a lot.
  281. [21:16:44] <cygnus> instead, we have TEH BLACK ICE.
  282. [21:17:00] <GabeW> no snow her
  283. [21:17:01] <GabeW> here
  284. [21:17:17] <rokerr> hmm
  285. [21:17:19] <GabeW> a little ice overnight - got to mid-upper 20's
  286. [21:17:23] <GabeW> (bay area)
  287. [21:17:34] <cygnus> GabeW: same here.
  288. [21:17:45] <GabeW> thats really cold for us
  289. [21:17:48] <cygnus> yeah
  290. [21:17:57] <GabeW> places here aren't built for freezing weather
  291. [21:17:58] <rorek> cygnus, mid-upper teens here actually
  292. [21:18:13] <cygnus> rorek: ah, yikes
  293. [21:19:19] <GabeW> wow, its still below 45 degrees
  294. [21:20:51] <_keturn> and I'm told there will be simultaneous mashpits in other locations
  295. [21:22:37] <chowells79> There's snow in my yard...
  296. [21:22:47] <chowells79> But I'm actually rather high up in Portland.
  297. [21:23:17] <chowells79> And... That's not really a good thing. Ice on the steep roads to my place... Ick.
  298. [21:27:43] * SamRose_ (n=chatzill@adsl-75-7-197-140.dsl.lgtpmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #openid
  299. [21:28:04] <rokerr> _keturn: at least James from bryght will be at the one in Vancouver
  300. [21:28:15] <rokerr> I can pick his brain when he gets back to Toronto
  301. [21:28:33] * peace-keeper (i=peace-ke@m246.net81-66-138.noos.fr) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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  305. [21:54:23] <chowells79> I do have to say... The snow on the ground makes Mt. Hood absolutely beautiful in the distance...
  306. [21:56:55] <rorek> the mountain is pretty today.
  307. [22:02:46] <gregh> http://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/volcanocams/msh/ is my 5-minute vacation :)
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  315. [23:51:54] <jibot> xlarrydrebes is yet another Janrain idler.
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