IRC Log for #openid on 2007-02-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:04:52] * demreath (i=mateusza@boss.staszic.waw.pl) has joined #openid
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  4. [01:52:04] <demreath> how can i create account on imageshack using openid???
  5. [01:58:27] <keturn> they only provide IDs, not accept them
  6. [01:58:28] <keturn> it's dumb.
  7. [01:59:31] <gregh> that's weird, why would somebody want an imageshack id
  8. [02:31:36] <demreath> pfffffff.
  9. [02:31:36] * SvenDowideit1 (n=SvenDowi@twiki/developer/SvenDowideit) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  10. [02:32:15] <demreath> and the same question about technorati...?
  11. [02:34:47] <keturn> same answer. if you use those services, please write to them explaining how they are dumb. I'd do it but they might think I am biased ;)
  12. [04:44:57] * SvenDowideit (n=sven@twiki/developer/SvenDowideit) has joined #openid
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  19. [07:14:00] <VxJasonxV> any janrain'ers awake?
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  51. [16:05:29] * peace-keeper (n=peace-ke@pnsgw1-client141.demo.tuwien.ac.at) has joined #openid
  52. [16:06:03] <peace-keeper> hi i want to set up an openid provider using java servlets. which library should i use? idprism? sxip-openid? janrain? netmesh?
  53. [16:21:22] * amir (n=Miranda@gentoo/developer/amir) has joined #openid
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  55. [16:41:12] * xlarrydrebes (n=xlarrydr@c-71-236-228-127.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #openid
  56. [16:41:12] <jibot> xlarrydrebes is yet another Janrain idler.
  57. [16:48:31] <don-o> peace-keeper: are any of those java libraries?
  58. [16:48:53] <peace-keeper> all of them
  59. [16:49:31] <don-o> i dont think janrain provides a java lib does it?
  60. [16:49:36] <peace-keeper> idprism looks stupid, sxip openid has documentation i dont understand, janrain has only a consumer as far as i can tell, and the netmesh java lib i havent yet tried out
  61. [16:53:37] * j3h (n=j3h@c-24-21-174-195.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  62. [17:28:12] * peace-keeper (n=peace-ke@pnsgw1-client141.demo.tuwien.ac.at) Quit (Connection timed out)
  63. [17:30:48] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  64. [17:59:15] * cygnus (n=cygnus@www.cprogrammer.org) has joined #openid
  65. [17:59:15] <jibot> cygnus is WorkerBee(name="Jonathan Daugherty", company="JanRain, Inc.")
  66. [18:17:51] <keturn> oops, missed peace-keeper
  67. [18:18:05] <keturn> (the answer to the java question is "sxip")
  68. [18:27:49] * hikari_esblogger (n=hikari_e@host86-128-243-131.range86-128.btcentralplus.com) has joined #openid
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  72. [19:03:06] * Flenser (n=Miranda@hiddenisland.plus.com) has joined #openid
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  75. [19:07:18] <jibot> xlarrydrebes_ is icechat's dirty little nuisance.
  76. [19:08:29] * xlarrydrebes (n=xlarrydr@c-71-236-228-127.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #openid
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  79. [19:37:27] <jibot> xlarrydrebes_ is icechat's dirty little nuisance.
  80. [19:42:42] * SamRose (n=chatzill@brick.voyager.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  81. [19:43:51] <rorek> ?forget xlarrydrebes_ is icechat's dirty little nuisance.
  82. [19:43:51] <jibot> I no longer know anything about xlarrydrebes_
  83. [19:44:17] <rorek> And remember not to remember that!
  84. [19:44:42] <rorek> ?define jibot
  85. [19:44:49] <cygnus> ?kill jibot.
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  96. [22:38:12] <VxJasonxV> Any janrain'ers available?
  97. [22:38:35] <VxJasonxV> I had a question about affiliate signups @ myopenid
  98. [22:39:24] <VxJasonxV> I don't understand why the login url must be under the chosen realm. I have a website, but the domain name is absurdly long.
  99. [22:39:43] <VxJasonxV> So I thought up a 'users' identity domain, but the only purpose of it would be for IDs and nothing else
  100. [22:40:05] <VxJasonxV> I want all the content (including login) to be done on my main domain, but you guys don't allow that for whatever reason?
  101. [22:40:21] <VxJasonxV> I suppose it really wouldn't be hard to drop some static pages + login into the users ID realm domain.
  102. [22:40:32] <VxJasonxV> It's just a nuisance :P, because I didn't want any content on that domain if I could help it
  103. [22:40:42] <_keturn> err, can you provide some examples? I'm not quite following.
  104. [22:41:05] <VxJasonxV> yeah, I figured you'd say that :P
  105. [22:41:34] <VxJasonxV> this is how I was going to fill out the affiliate form:
  106. [22:42:09] <VxJasonxV> Site URL: orangeloungeradio.com , Site Realm: olrmy.com (<-- this is the domain used for user identities), I wanted the login URL to be orangeloungeradio.com/login , but that's not from within the realm.
  107. [22:43:02] <VxJasonxV> So. All of the site, all of the content, all of the navigation, all of the things they come to my site for, would be at orangeloungeradio.com , I essentially wanted olrmy.com to be a dummy domain with no content, sans existence for OpenID purposes.
  108. [22:44:46] <_keturn> which OpenID purposes?
  109. [22:44:46] <rorek> why bother with that, when you can set aside some of your main urlspace for the openid stuff?
  110. [22:45:46] <VxJasonxV> the point is that orangeloungeradio.com is a really long domain name, and olrmy.com isn't
  111. [22:46:02] <VxJasonxV> that, and I can use orangeloungeradio.com for staff identities, and olrmy.com for users
  112. [22:46:06] <VxJasonxV> abstraction + ease
  113. [22:46:28] <VxJasonxV> the only issue is that the login url is supposed to be under the realm, which goes against how I was planning on doing things.
  114. [22:46:29] <rorek> Ah, so you're giving your users delegated myopenid identities?
  115. [22:46:42] <_keturn> the affiliate program doesn't know anything about what, if anything, you're doing with user identities
  116. [22:47:12] <VxJasonxV> it's only about the login url. why must it be under the site realm?
  117. [22:47:24] <VxJasonxV> that's all I wanted to ask :P
  118. [22:47:59] <_keturn> because we want to log people in to the site that we've told them they're signing up with
  119. [22:48:23] <VxJasonxV> Yeah, that kinda makes sense doesn't it :|.
  120. [22:49:09] <VxJasonxV> Well. I guess a website on the user domain with a bunch of information/resources isn't a bad thing.
  121. [22:49:53] <_keturn> basically, if you even _have_ a user domain, the affiliate program you're looking at probably isn't what you really want
  122. [22:50:10] <_keturn> and you should talk to us about some other options for what you're doing
  123. [22:50:47] <VxJasonxV> I don't understand why it isn't what I'd want.
  124. [22:51:11] <VxJasonxV> I know that it's just delegation. But the fact of the matter is that users would have a "branded ID" to use anywhere.
  125. [22:51:41] <VxJasonxV> They could reuse it with their LJs I know a lot of them have for all I care. The affiliate program is just helping with convenience for new users.
  126. [22:52:06] <chowells79> Right... The point of the affiliate program is that it *isn't* related to delegation.
  127. [22:52:19] <_keturn> yeah, and if you send users through our affiliate program, they're not going to see the branded ID during their sign-up process, so it's going to be sort of a confusing experience
  128. [22:53:03] <VxJasonxV> erm
  129. [22:53:10] <VxJasonxV> affiliate vs. reseller
  130. [22:53:15] <VxJasonxV> gg Jason, you rock at reading and comprehension
  131. [22:53:17] <VxJasonxV> that's awesome
  132. [22:53:48] <VxJasonxV> reseller would be branded, affiliate is just link traffic (essentially)
  133. [22:53:58] <VxJasonxV> I guess the signup form made me think differently for... whatever dumb reason.
  134. [22:54:09] <VxJasonxV> (Am I back on track yet?)
  135. [22:54:14] <chowells79> yep
  136. [22:54:17] <VxJasonxV> ok good
  137. [22:54:19] <VxJasonxV> that was awesome
  138. [22:54:55] <VxJasonxV> So, I'm debating whether I'll do this myself with your folks' Ruby libs or not.
  139. [22:55:52] <VxJasonxV> If I decide that I don't want to manage the Identity Server and such, you seemed to hint that there was something else you could do for me?
  140. [23:08:18] * hikari_esblogger (n=hikari_e@host86-128-243-131.range86-128.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  141. [23:12:39] * PatF (i=Patrick@nat/novell/x-36bb729d3890c9cb) has joined #openid
  142. [23:25:43] * xlarrydrebes (n=xlarrydr@001-808-864.area1.spcsdns.net) has joined #openid
  143. [23:25:43] <jibot> xlarrydrebes is yet another Janrain idler.
  144. [23:25:54] * wcdevel (n=admin@user-12ld21n.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #openid
  145. [23:26:35] <chowells79> Is jibot broken?
  146. [23:27:06] <cygnus> quite possibly.
  147. [23:27:44] <wcdevel> hey, so what's up with i-names?
  148. [23:29:18] <chowells79> Hmm. That question should be like a bat-signal to GabeW... Guess he's not here at the moment.
  149. [23:29:21] * xlarrydrebes_ (n=xlarrydr@001-733-079.area1.spcsdns.net) has joined #openid
  150. [23:29:47] * GabeW pokes up ears
  151. [23:29:51] <GabeW> bat signal
  152. [23:29:54] <wcdevel> hey GabeW :)
  153. [23:30:31] * GabeW races over in a souped up, fire breathing boat-car
  154. [23:30:34] <GabeW> yes, hi
  155. [23:30:37] <GabeW> whats up?
  156. [23:30:55] <wcdevel> you know about i-names?
  157. [23:31:00] <GabeW> yes sir
  158. [23:31:18] <wcdevel> alright, it seems like the same kind of thing as openID... how do they compare and contrast?
  159. [23:31:25] <GabeW> oh no
  160. [23:31:26] <cygnus> hah
  161. [23:31:54] <GabeW> openid *uses* inames or HTTP URIs as identifiers to get the descriptor documents which point at service endpoints providing authentiation services
  162. [23:31:54] <wcdevel> did I open up pandora's box here? :)
  163. [23:32:01] <GabeW> no
  164. [23:32:04] <GabeW> maybe a FAQ ;-)
  165. [23:32:07] <cygnus> indeed
  166. [23:32:21] <wcdevel> could you point me towards some literature?
  167. [23:32:23] <GabeW> in fact the descriptor document for OpenID comes from XRI resolution
  168. [23:32:46] <wcdevel> ok, so openid uses either a URI or an iname
  169. [23:33:01] <GabeW> right now, thats true
  170. [23:33:19] <wcdevel> ok, that makes sense
  171. [23:34:16] <wcdevel> and openXRI is related to inames?
  172. [23:34:22] <GabeW> very much so
  173. [23:34:29] <GabeW> so XRI is the technology
  174. [23:34:37] <GabeW> Inames is the public community deployment
  175. [23:34:41] <wcdevel> ah, ok
  176. [23:34:43] <GabeW> openxri is a open source implementation of XRI
  177. [23:34:58] <GabeW> its the code behind xri.net proxy
  178. [23:35:06] <GabeW> and has client side stuff too
  179. [23:35:24] <GabeW> I am co-chair of the XRI TC at OASIS
  180. [23:35:35] <GabeW> i'm not intimately involved with the inames deployment
  181. [23:35:47] <GabeW> but I know the stuff really well
  182. [23:36:05] <GabeW> and we (Amsoft) are involved with the various parties
  183. [23:36:15] <wcdevel> ok, I'm going to go read some docs/FAQs on this stuff :)
  184. [23:36:47] <wcdevel> openid, cardspace, higgins, inames, XRI, yagis... phew!
  185. [23:36:53] <GabeW> hmm
  186. [23:37:05] <GabeW> there's a lot of convergence
  187. [23:37:12] <GabeW> really, yadis isn't separate at this point
  188. [23:37:16] <wcdevel> I'm seeing that ;)
  189. [23:37:33] <GabeW> and inames is the main public deployment of XRI these days
  190. [23:38:01] <wcdevel> yeah, and MS is planning on doing something with openid from what I've read, but I haven't figured out what/how
  191. [23:38:06] <GabeW> oh
  192. [23:38:11] <GabeW> you've read the blogs, right?
  193. [23:38:15] <wcdevel> yup :)
  194. [23:39:39] <wcdevel> cardspace + openid = something I'm trying to figure out but seems important because MS is (for better or worse) king of the hill
  195. [23:39:41] <GabeW> more than anything, its microsoft acknowledging the value of openid, as flawed as current deployment/implementations might be (esp w/r/t phishing)
  196. [23:40:34] <GabeW> http://www.identityblog.com/?p=658
  197. [23:41:13] <wcdevel> quoting yourself now? just like George Bernard Shaw hehe, j/k
  198. [23:41:31] <GabeW> hehe
  199. [23:41:36] <GabeW> i'm quoting kim quoting me
  200. [23:41:39] <GabeW> heh
  201. [23:41:44] <GabeW> its the blogosphere - its how it works!
  202. [23:41:49] <wcdevel> Kim works for MS, right?
  203. [23:41:59] <GabeW> yes
  204. [23:42:08] <GabeW> but you couldn't tell by knowing him ;-)
  205. [23:42:11] <VxJasonxV> What's his whole name?
  206. [23:42:15] <VxJasonxV> Cameron Kim or something?
  207. [23:42:24] <GabeW> Kim Cameron
  208. [23:43:01] <GabeW> i need to drag him in here and do a open house with openid hackers
  209. [23:43:02] <VxJasonxV> aha, whoops
  210. [23:43:20] <wcdevel> GabeW: that sounds like a good idea
  211. [23:43:54] <wcdevel> MS reps on freenode... what a thought!
  212. [23:44:05] <GabeW> its not that kooky
  213. [23:46:14] <dcorbin> What is the phishing concern for openId referred to?
  214. [23:46:17] <wcdevel> ok, so i-names... what does =someguy.name refer to? is that a URI for the .name TLD?
  215. [23:46:42] <GabeW> dcorbin: there's a bunch of discussion in the openid lists
  216. [23:46:58] <GabeW> basicaly, the issue is that a phisher now has a concentrated phishing taarget - you OpenID Provider
  217. [23:47:04] <GabeW> wcdevel: ok
  218. [23:47:17] <GabeW> no - there's a resolution protocol - delegated from a set of roots
  219. [23:47:29] <wcdevel> ok, that was my second thought :)
  220. [23:47:37] * SvenDowideit_ (n=sven@twiki/developer/SvenDowideit) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  221. [23:47:42] <GabeW> there's www.inames.net and dev.inames.net
  222. [23:47:43] <wcdevel> now would xri.net be one of those roots?
  223. [23:48:03] <GabeW> xri.net is actually a proxy so that you can stick in XRIs wherever you are expecting an HTTP URI
  224. [23:48:27] <wcdevel> ok
  225. [23:48:34] <GabeW> its a "work well with the web" measure
  226. [23:48:39] <GabeW> actually anyone can run a proxy
  227. [23:49:01] * xlarrydrebes (n=xlarrydr@001-808-864.area1.spcsdns.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  228. [23:49:02] <wcdevel> so, =someguy.name gets resolved to their URI, which contains their openID/yadis headers
  229. [23:49:19] <GabeW> actually an iname (or an openid HTTP URL) gets resolved to a descriptor document
  230. [23:49:48] <GabeW> and if you are doing openid authentictaion (as a relying party), you look for the openid provider service advertisided in that descriptor document
  231. [23:50:05] <GabeW> and redirect the user to that openid provider (who does some sort of authentication with the user)
  232. [23:50:10] <GabeW> thats openid in a nutshell
  233. [23:50:20] <wcdevel> yeah, through <link openid.server href...etc
  234. [23:50:34] <GabeW> well, if you don't do YADIS
  235. [23:50:48] <GabeW> which is the way of retrieving the descrtiptor document
  236. [23:51:04] * xlarrydrebes_ (n=xlarrydr@001-733-079.area1.spcsdns.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  237. [23:51:33] <GabeW> YADIS is now defined inside the XRI resolution document and I'd say YADIS is really just the HTTP URL -> descriptor method
  238. [23:51:35] <wcdevel> most of my openID knowledge is based off of pip.verisignlabs.com and their Rails app... so that uses YADIS as the way of retrieving the descrtiptor document?
  239. [23:51:39] <GabeW> ah
  240. [23:51:57] <GabeW> yah, so I don't distinguish YADIS from XRI resolution
  241. [23:52:04] * xlarrydrebes (n=xlarrydr@h46079b5d.area7.spcsdns.net) has joined #openid
  242. [23:52:07] <GabeW> its basically Identifier -> descriptor
  243. [23:52:26] <GabeW> and because of the abailability of xri.net
  244. [23:52:31] <GabeW> it boils down to an HTTP GET
  245. [23:52:38] <GabeW> either way
  246. [23:52:55] <GabeW> HTTP GET to get the descriptor document
  247. [23:53:25] * GabeW is glad this channel is logged/archived
  248. [23:54:05] * Osurac (i=mikeg@68.159.128.83) has joined #openid
  249. [23:54:30] <wcdevel> now, those <link> tags in the <head> of your URI are known as the descriptor, correct?
  250. [23:54:40] <GabeW> no
  251. [23:54:50] <GabeW> thats a 'shortcut' where you don't use the descriptor, iirc
  252. [23:54:58] * Flenser (n=Miranda@twiki/developer/SamHasler) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  253. [23:55:12] <GabeW> to be honest, I haven't followed that part of the openid spec too closely
  254. [23:55:25] <wcdevel> ok
  255. [23:56:12] <wcdevel> so, what is the descriptor then?
  256. [23:56:26] <wcdevel> and I assume we are talking aboug XRI?
  257. [23:56:30] <GabeW> its a document that has (among other thigs) service element blocks
  258. [23:56:31] <GabeW> no
  259. [23:56:31] <GabeW> openid
  260. [23:56:36] <wcdevel> ok
  261. [23:56:43] <GabeW> it was defined by XRI resolution
  262. [23:56:45] <GabeW> but used by openid
  263. [23:57:35] <wcdevel> now, I'm also assuming that all of the openid implementations currently in use are based around openid 1.1... like livejournal, pip.verisignlabs.com, etc
  264. [23:58:38] * SvenDowideit (n=sven@twiki/developer/SvenDowideit) has joined #openid
  265. [23:59:23] <wcdevel> GabeW: could you give me a link to a document describing openid descriptors? I can't seem to find any mention of them in the specs

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