IRC Log for #openid on 2007-04-02
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [01:26:41] <rgl>
hi
- [01:28:08] <rgl>
the 1.1 spec says the check_authentication response has a "openid.mode" parameter, is that correct? the "openid." prefix seems a typo. the 2.0 spec does not have it at all.
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- [05:18:41] <Kaelten>
trying to wrap my head around openid is hurting me :s
- [05:42:45] <keturn>
http://leancode.com/openid-for-rails/ and http://simonwillison.net/ have some nice introductory materials
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- [14:55:32] <rgl>
the 1.1 spec says the check_authentication response has a "openid.mode" parameter, is that correct? the "openid." prefix seems a typo. the 2.0 spec does not have it at all.
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- [19:20:31] <rgl>
hello
- [19:20:41] <rgl>
lemme try again my question *G*
- [19:20:46] <rgl>
the 1.1 spec says the check_authentication response has a "openid.mode" parameter, is that correct? the "openid." prefix seems a typo. the 2.0 spec does not have it at all.
- [19:22:31] <GabeW>
openid. prefix is most definitely still there...
- [19:23:30] <GabeW>
ah - it has to do with http encoding vs. key-value encoding
- [19:24:32] <rgl>
thats it. it seems a typo to me, because that response is in a key-value form.
- [19:24:40] <GabeW>
yah, i agree, confusing
- [19:24:55] <GabeW>
its all there, just not obvious unless you get it already
- [19:26:37] <rgl>
sorry? what is all there?
- [19:26:46] <GabeW>
the spec is not ambiguous
- [19:26:51] <GabeW>
its just a little indirect
- [19:27:21] <rgl>
you are confuing me hehe
- [19:27:32] <rgl>
is it a typo or not? :D
- [19:27:35] <GabeW>
i'm saying that the 2.0 spec is not ambiguos
- [19:27:39] <GabeW>
ambiguous
- [19:27:47] <chowells79>
And it's not a typo.
- [19:27:55] <GabeW>
right
- [19:28:02] <GabeW>
its just a little surprising
- [19:28:03] <GabeW>
thats all
- [19:28:13] <rgl>
why is it like that?
- [19:28:13] <chowells79>
The openid. prefix is required for url arguments.
- [19:28:24] <chowells79>
It's not required in kvform
- [19:28:26] <GabeW>
i don't know why the openid. prefix isn't required for the key-value form as well
- [19:28:35] <GabeW>
but its not
- [19:28:36] <GabeW>
so there
- [19:28:37] <chowells79>
That's *really* old.
- [19:28:59] <chowells79>
Someone said "there's no opportunity for a collision in this case, so namespacing isn't necessary"
- [19:29:09] <GabeW>
but confusion results
- [19:29:15] <chowells79>
And everyone else said "ok, yeah, so we don't have to do that"
- [19:29:23] <GabeW>
except
- [19:29:29] <chowells79>
And no one thought of how people in the future would get confused by it. :)
- [19:29:39] <GabeW>
uh, aren't there cases where you would be able to add stuff to kvform responses?
- [19:29:50] <rgl>
chowells79, humm, but I'm talking about the KV reponse for check_authentication. it should not have the "openid." prefix, yes, or no?
- [19:29:52] <GabeW>
Had I been involved at that level I would have said "uh, guys, this is wierd"
- [19:30:18] <GabeW>
rgl: its kvform, so no
- [19:30:33] <chowells79>
GabeW: At that point, no one was considering signed additional parameters...
- [19:30:52] <rgl>
so its a typo in the 1.1 spec. but chowells79 said it wasnt. so I'm confused! *G*
- [19:30:52] <chowells79>
That decision was made about a year before extensions started to be used at all.
- [19:30:54] <GabeW>
chowells79: yah, lots of history
- [19:31:00] <chowells79>
It's not a typo.
- [19:31:06] <GabeW>
wait
- [19:31:08] <chowells79>
It's just not clear. :)
- [19:31:09] <GabeW>
i'm looking at the 2.0 spec
- [19:31:35] <chowells79>
Which section of the 1.1 spec?
- [19:31:51] <GabeW>
actually it looks like the 2.0 spec doesn't actually state that the response to check_authentication is kvform
- [19:31:55] <rgl>
chowells79, what you mean by not clear? should I expect a "openid.mode" in the check_authentication response?
- [19:32:35] <rgl>
chowells79, at 4.4.2. Response Parameters
- [19:32:46] <rgl>
chowells79, http://openid.net/specs/openid-authentication-1_1.html#mode_check_authentication
- [19:33:04] <chowells79>
Uhh... 4.2.2 doesn't cover the results of check_authentication
- [19:33:28] <rgl>
4.4.2 :D
- [19:33:34] <chowells79>
Oh, right. :)
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- [19:34:33] <chowells79>
Uhh.. Where'd that come from?
- [19:34:43] <GabeW>
chowells79: where in 2.0 does it say that indirect communication responses are in kvform?
- [19:34:47] <chowells79>
openid.mode shouldn't even be present there, I thought.
- [19:34:48] <GabeW>
(or not)
- [19:35:13] <chowells79>
When's the last time that page was updated?
- [19:35:24] <j3h>
The 1.1 spec is very rough. It was a translation of a non-RFC-formatted document, and it hasn't had the same kind of review that the original document or the OpenID 2.0 specification had.
- [19:35:29] * GabeW will let chowells79 and rgl finish their thread
- [19:35:38] * GabeW goes off for food
- [19:35:42] <j3h>
I wince when I see people refer to the RFC-formatted 1.1 specification
- [19:36:15] <chowells79>
Ok... section 4.4.2 should not mention "openid.mode" at all.
- [19:36:29] <chowells79>
Where's the original OpenID 1.1 spec?
- [19:36:40] <rgl>
j3h, which 1.1 spec should I read? the RFC (.txt) one?
- [19:36:50] <chowells79>
This one: http://openid.net/specs/specs-1.1.bml
- [19:37:13] <chowells79>
That's the *actual* spec for 1.1
- [19:37:19] <chowells79>
Despite not looking like an RFC
- [19:37:47] <chowells79>
http://openid.net/specs/specs-1.1.bml#keyvalue
- [19:37:57] <chowells79>
Note the complete lack of openid.mode there.
- [19:37:59] <chowells79>
:)
- [19:38:16] <chowells79>
And GabeW, I think j3h is better suited to answer your question than I am.
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- [19:39:20] <rgl>
alright :D
- [19:39:32] <rgl>
so I'll ignore the parameter altogether
- [19:40:05] <rgl>
what is the striked text on the specs-1.1.bml ? I should ignore it?
- [19:41:14] <chowells79>
It's stuff that was there in earlier versions of the protocol, removed because it was poorly implemented (and hard, and confusing, to implement well)
- [19:41:25] <chowells79>
So, yeah, ignore it.
- [19:42:02] <rgl>
alright. thx :D
- [19:42:09] <rgl>
BTW, what is your name?
- [19:42:25] <chowells79>
I'm Carl Howells. I'm an engineer at JanRain
- [19:42:55] <chowells79>
I was involved heavily in the very early spec process... I'm greatly responsible for many of those struck-through fields being removed. :)
- [19:43:06] <rgl>
sweet. :D
- [19:43:08] <rgl>
hehe
- [19:44:56] <rgl>
is there a way for a OP to push atributes to a consumer? say, when I change my email address, I would like to update all consumers that had taken it on the past.
- [19:46:20] <chowells79>
Not currently. The AX extension should support that, but it's still in development.
- [19:47:35] <rgl>
I see thx. :D
- [19:48:10] <rgl>
In a screen cast (I don't remeber which). the author showed something like that, but I couldn't find it anywere *G*
- [19:49:50] <_keturn>
In OpenID 2.0 you could just shove id_res responses with sreg data at RPs, but I expect many of them wouldn't really be prepared to do the right thing with that
- [19:51:50] <rgl>
interesting. I'll check the 2.0 specs for that.
- [19:52:26] <rgl>
is there a OID 2.0 server and client available? so I can test this stuff?
- [19:53:07] <_keturn>
see /topic ;)
- [19:53:28] <rgl>
oh! d'oh! *G*
- [19:53:32] <_keturn>
and from what GabeW says, the openid4java code is functional too
- [19:54:15] <rgl>
thx! :D
- [19:54:56] <rgl>
_keturn, you also work at jainrain?
- [19:55:09] <_keturn>
rgl: yep
- [19:55:17] <rgl>
ops, JanRain (sorry)
- [19:56:12] <cygnus>
I've also seen it spelled Janran.
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- [20:25:33] <GabeW>
i wonder if there wouldn't be some play in having a "ask your openid FAQ" session here with the implementors of the libs
- [20:25:43] <GabeW>
ie the janrain, pip, sxip, etc folks
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- [20:27:53] <_keturn>
think so? I'd hope we're already considered pretty accessible on our respective mailing lists.
- [20:28:45] <GabeW>
5ok
- [20:29:07] <GabeW>
i find that the detailed sort of back and forth can be distracting on lists, so I tend to ignore it
- [20:29:21] <GabeW>
since often it comes down to "RTFM" ;-)
- [20:29:39] <GabeW>
personal preference I guess
- [20:31:53] <_keturn>
on the other hand, some days I wonder if I've entirely lost touch with how other developers use the internet
- [20:32:00] <GabeW>
yah
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- [20:32:34] <_keturn>
some guy came in to a python channel the other day asking what develoment environment he could set up to have a IDE with syntax highlighting, identifier completion, and *integrated web server*
- [20:32:39] <_keturn>
(emphasis mine)
- [20:32:45] <_keturn>
I don't even know what that _means_
- [20:32:55] <GabeW>
oh
- [20:33:02] <GabeW>
yah, you need to be in java land
- [20:33:05] <GabeW>
for that to be natural
- [20:33:18] <GabeW>
(read: eclipse)
- [20:33:49] <GabeW>
what was the response, btw?
- [20:36:05] <cygnus>
yikes
- [20:36:13] <cygnus>
(not necessarily *the* response, but definitely mine)
- [20:36:50] <GabeW>
in java world, remember, yo have compile & deploy cycles in development
- [20:36:51] <_keturn>
the response was in fact "check out eclipse with pydev"
- [20:36:54] <GabeW>
hehe
- [20:37:32] <GabeW>
and if you've got 14 java frameworks installed (which you almost have to, to do anything useful), the configuration management alone can require an IDE all in itself
- [20:37:55] * cygnus shudders
- [20:38:23] <GabeW>
i'm a litlte concerned there are so few openid java users
- [20:38:25] <GabeW>
little
- [20:43:10] * mmn (n=mmn@rn-v1e4b17.uwaterloo.ca) has joined #openid
- [20:45:30] <mmn>
has anyone encountered the error "Server responds that checkAuth call is not valid" when running the "diagnose-server" test using PHP OpenID 1.2.2 ?
- [20:45:48] <mmn>
Searching on Google did not give me any answers
- [20:45:57] <cygnus>
mmn: someone has probably encountered that, yes.
- [20:46:54] <mmn>
What should I do to try and fix this?
- [20:48:33] <mmn>
That error doesn't really explain where the problem lies
- [20:49:29] <cygnus>
mmn: may I sign up on your server and test?
- [20:51:25] <mmn>
ok, it is installed at www.noorenberghe.com/id/server.php
- [20:52:29] <cygnus>
oh, the example server.
- [20:52:50] <cygnus>
well, for me to test, I'd need a URL I can use. do you have one I can use (and a bogus password)?
- [20:53:50] <mmn>
one sec
- [21:02:24] <rgl>
no openid for signup with http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/security ? :D
- [21:02:34] <mmn>
http://www.noorenberghe.com/test/ and password testing
- [21:06:47] <mmn>
cygnus: are you able to login?
- [21:07:28] <cygnus>
mmn: yep, I'm looking at it now.
- [21:07:56] <mmn>
ok thanks
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- [21:26:40] <mmn>
cygnus: do you think it is a configuration problem or a bug?
- [21:27:30] <cygnus>
I suspect it's a configuration problem.
- [21:27:38] <cygnus>
(if it were a bug, it would be easier to reproduce)
- [21:27:40] * [e]afk is now known as elliottcable
- [21:28:07] <chowells79>
elliottcable: I see you got an answer on the mailing list... was it what you were looking for?
- [21:29:34] <mmn>
cygnus: you can see the error when you do tests right?
- [21:29:58] <cygnus>
yeah, I reproduce that behavior against your server.
- [21:30:14] <mmn>
ok
- [21:30:50] <elliottcable>
chowells79: Sort of
- [21:30:53] <elliottcable>
chowells79: I'm still having trouble
- [21:30:54] <rgl>
"lifetime" is a word? or two?
- [21:30:57] <elliottcable>
Still not entirely sure why
- [21:31:29] <elliottcable>
rgl: lifetime is one word, yes
- [21:31:58] <rgl>
elliottcable, thanks!
- [21:32:05] <elliottcable>
rgl: lol
- [21:32:12] <rgl>
*G*
- [21:32:23] <elliottcable>
chowells79: It's still annoying the crap out of me, I can't get it to use an old version of rails
- [21:43:51] <cygnus>
mmn: what sort of store are you using for the example server? (filesystem store, or database)
- [21:44:25] <mmn>
mySQL
- [21:44:49] <cygnus>
mmn: in the MySQL database used for the store, what tables exist?
- [21:47:09] <mmn>
I don't find any
- [21:47:20] <cygnus>
:)
- [21:47:56] <cygnus>
that might be a bug. give me a min.
- [21:48:03] <mmn>
ok
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- [21:56:24] <cygnus>
mmn: for now, change your example server configuration to use a FileStore. in config.php, return new Auth_OpenID_FileStore("/tmp/example_server") instead of using a MySQL store. the SQL-based stores to not get properly initialized by the generated configuration.
- [21:58:07] <mmn>
done
- [22:01:21] <mmn>
all the tests passed now
- [22:01:47] <cygnus>
great.
- [22:02:01] <mmn>
I might know where the bug is
- [22:02:11] <cygnus>
yeah, it's in setup.php
- [22:02:27] <cygnus>
when it generates SQL store init code, it should call ->createTables() on the store object
- [22:02:31] <cygnus>
(before returning it.)
- [22:03:09] <mmn>
on line 585: require_once 'DB.php'; what db.php is it requiring?
- [22:03:18] <mmn>
I can't find this file
- [22:03:29] <cygnus>
that's PEAR DB, which will probably live in /usr/share/php
- [22:03:41] <mmn>
ok
- [22:03:47] <cygnus>
if you lack PEAR DB, I'd expect you to get an error message
- [22:03:54] <cygnus>
before getting far enough to find that only some things work, that is.
- [22:04:09] <mmn>
ok, thank you for your help
- [22:04:13] <cygnus>
but if you have PEAR DB (which is a documented requirement when using the SQL stores), then the bug I described would apply.
- [22:04:27] <mmn>
yes, I have pear db
- [22:04:29] <cygnus>
you're welcome
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- [22:07:37] <cygnus>
whee.
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- [22:07:49] <idnar>
whee indeed
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