IRC Log for #openid on 2007-04-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  44. [16:44:57] * cygnus (n=cygnus@www.cprogrammer.org) has joined #openid
  45. [16:44:57] <jibot> cygnus is WorkerBee(name="Jonathan Daugherty", company="JanRain, Inc.")
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  47. [16:51:41] * tommorris (n=tommorri@i-83-67-98-32.freedom2surf.net) has joined #openid
  48. [16:51:42] <jibot> tommorris is a UK blogger, lives in East Sussex and studies philosophy in London, but hasn't yet said whether he's a quark or a lepton and blogs at http://blogs.opml.org/tommorris
  49. [16:53:47] <tommorris> Is there any example code available for the PHP OpenID consumer?
  50. [16:56:47] <tommorris> Oh, wait, I've found the updated examples
  51. [17:18:12] * tommorris_ (n=tommorri@i-83-67-98-32.freedom2surf.net) has joined #openid
  52. [17:19:31] <cygnus> if you're referring to the Janrain lib, then, yes; examples for both the consumer and server are included
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  62. [18:08:14] <dUstBYTeR> Hi to all.
  63. [18:08:59] <cygnus> howdy
  64. [18:09:30] <dUstBYTeR> hi cygnus.
  65. [18:09:36] <dUstBYTeR> do you have an minute for a question?
  66. [18:10:33] <cygnus> just ask, and someone will answer when they can.
  67. [18:10:44] <dUstBYTeR> I'm looking to install an OpenID server in my local environment, i've checked around on the net and have had a hard time finding what i need to do this
  68. [18:10:55] <dUstBYTeR> what i end up finding is applications which are openid enabled
  69. [18:13:11] <cygnus> well, I would first begin by asking whether you really do need your own server; in many cases people really just need authorization facilities, not a server of their own. (We encourage using one of the various free public servers in part because it encourages people to use their OpenIDs in many contexts other than just "local" ones.)
  70. [18:13:57] <dUstBYTeR> well this is part of ap roject we are doing for my graduate class.
  71. [18:14:25] <dUstBYTeR> each student will set up an open id server and then we are to try to set up a simple openid enabled application, can be as simple as a servlet.
  72. [18:14:56] <cygnus> did your instructor fully research what is involved in "setting up a server"?
  73. [18:15:03] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has left #openid
  74. [18:15:06] <dUstBYTeR> hehe probably not.
  75. [18:15:32] <dUstBYTeR> this is part of the project, we investigate and see what it would take, goal by end of quarter is to get it working.
  76. [18:15:43] <cygnus> ah.
  77. [18:15:59] <dUstBYTeR> :)
  78. [18:16:20] <dUstBYTeR> some are working on openid and others on shibboleth.
  79. [18:16:24] <cygnus> well, your options for running a server are various: you can implement your own using an OpenID library, or you can find a pre-built server such as the RoR-based PIP codebase by Verisign.
  80. [18:16:25] * weblivz (n=steven@81-178-225-139.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #openid
  81. [18:17:08] <cygnus> for the sake of brevity, I would recommend using a pre-built server, unless implementing one (using a library) is part of your project.
  82. [18:17:21] <dUstBYTeR> ok. i suppose it would easiest to get one that is prebuilt working.
  83. [18:17:28] <cygnus> yeah.
  84. [18:17:32] <dUstBYTeR> then maybe we can try to implemente one on our own.
  85. [18:17:48] <cygnus> http://openid.net/wiki/index.php/Run_your_own_identity_server
  86. [18:17:54] <dUstBYTeR> is the RoR-based one the onlyone?
  87. [18:18:29] <cygnus> no (see above).
  88. [18:18:52] <cygnus> I do not recommend using phpMyID, FYI.
  89. [18:19:08] <dUstBYTeR> ok.
  90. [18:19:18] <dUstBYTeR> i did try to play with the netmesh materials but didnt get to far.
  91. [18:19:37] <cygnus> I can't vouch for that code; I don't know if it's updated.
  92. [18:19:54] <dUstBYTeR> it said it was pretty beta.
  93. [18:19:57] <cygnus> I can vouch for the PIP code, the DjangoID project, and the "PHP OpenID Server"
  94. [18:20:04] <dUstBYTeR> 2.0.10 i think was last none.
  95. [18:20:20] <cygnus> I recommend the DjangoID app for ease-of-deployment, although I have not used it.
  96. [18:20:20] * weblivz (n=steven@81-178-225-139.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Client Quit)
  97. [18:20:35] <dUstBYTeR> The php OpenID server might be best bet. since im familar with php
  98. [18:21:09] <cygnus> well, if you need help, ask me here or mail cygnus@janrain.com. I wrote it.
  99. [18:21:42] <cygnus> use the janrain PHP library, 1.2.2, with that.
  100. [18:21:59] * weblivz (n=steven@81-178-225-139.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #openid
  101. [18:22:12] <dUstBYTeR> hehe.
  102. [18:22:12] <dUstBYTeR> ok im sure i might have some questions.
  103. [18:22:20] <dUstBYTeR> I'll start to work on it tonight most likely after work.
  104. [18:22:25] <cygnus> cool.
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  106. [18:22:28] <dUstBYTeR> i guess thre isn't really one for java around.
  107. [18:22:39] <cygnus> hmm, I have no idea.
  108. [18:22:41] <dUstBYTeR> maybe after i udnerstand this I can work on a java library that simple to use lol
  109. [18:22:51] <dUstBYTeR> well thanks for the help cygnus!
  110. [18:22:54] <cygnus> yw, good luck
  111. [18:28:26] * cweiske (n=cweiske@dslb-088-074-135-212.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #openid
  112. [18:29:16] <cweiske> Hello cygnus
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  116. [18:31:44] <cygnus> howdy, cweiske
  117. [18:32:19] <cweiske> which additional information would you like to have in the pear documentation?
  118. [18:32:38] <cweiske> 1) v1 is deprecated and not used for new packages
  119. [18:32:58] <cweiske> 2) ?
  120. [18:33:29] <cygnus> well, if I were to read that, I don't get the impression it's safe to only support v2. my experience suggests that "deprecated" often means "still very widely-deployed"
  121. [18:34:03] <cygnus> so the docs should say "v1 is deprecated; DO NOT USE" or something to that effect, along with an assurance that it is *safe* to only support v2 in terms of working with most code in the wild.
  122. [18:34:52] <cweiske> I guess there are always old pear installations in the wild
  123. [18:35:03] <cweiske> greg did have some stats, maybe I'll find them
  124. [18:35:44] <cygnus> cool.
  125. [18:36:09] <cygnus> the main motivation for us was, we wanted our library to work with as many installs as possible, and part of that was making sure it'd work with deployed PEAR.
  126. [18:36:20] * fajro is now known as fajro_vuelvo_en_
  127. [18:36:26] <cygnus> so we couldn't support only v2 if there was any question about support for v1.
  128. [18:36:54] <cygnus> and as I'm sure you know, it's impossible to tell people to upgrade PEAR in hosting environments and so on, so we wanted it to be flexible.
  129. [18:37:42] <cweiske> btw, I'm a pear dev
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  132. [18:39:04] <cygnus> cweiske: excellent, then I'm talking to the right guy!
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  135. [18:41:46] <cweiske> http://pear.php.net/~greg/stats/
  136. [18:41:49] <cweiske> there they are
  137. [18:42:46] <cygnus> I take it PEAR 1.4 implies "v2" of the XML?
  138. [18:42:47] <cweiske> pear 1.4 adoption is at 99.83 percent
  139. [18:42:49] <cweiske> yes
  140. [18:43:13] <cygnus> that's something else that could be clarified: how to know when v1 vs. v2 is in effect (i.e., which versions of PEAR it corresponds to).
  141. [18:43:31] <cygnus> but if v2 adoption is that high, then maybe the v1 docs could be *removed* completely.
  142. [18:43:48] <cygnus> i.e., look in the attic for stuff that nobody uses. :)
  143. [18:43:51] <cweiske> I'll suggest this
  144. [18:43:55] <cygnus> awesome.
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  148. [18:52:12] * tommorris_ is now known as tommorris
  149. [18:52:59] <cweiske> so you don't plan to offer pear packages anymore, even with the script?
  150. [18:53:19] <cweiske> would you put the generation script into the package you deploy?
  151. [18:53:54] <cygnus> we do not plan to support them or spend time creating them, or maintaining any scripts; we're looking for a third party to do that.
  152. [18:54:04] <cweiske> ok
  153. [18:54:39] <cygnus> and we would be more than happy to link to any such page where PEAR packages are available.
  154. [18:55:20] <cweiske> I'll try to get to pearified.com, since its idea is to have pearified versions of php apps and libs
  155. [18:55:29] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  156. [18:55:38] <cweiske> I'll come back to you if I have more info
  157. [18:55:49] * fajro_vuelvo_en_ is now known as fajro
  158. [18:56:01] <cygnus> ah, interesting.
  159. [18:56:05] <cygnus> thanks again. :)
  160. [18:56:12] <cweiske> np
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  180. [21:42:23] <rgl> hello
  181. [21:43:41] <cygnus> howdy
  182. [21:46:29] <chowells79> Hey rgl...
  183. [21:46:40] <chowells79> What was Paul's explanation?
  184. [21:46:42] <chowells79> I'm curious
  185. [21:52:38] <rgl> chowells79, he didn't remeber the exact details of why I shouldn't directly use the shared secret returned by DH. he then gave me some "google" keywords to search for: CDH or computational DH, DDH or decisional DH, random oracle model, and security reductions Diffie-Hellman.
  186. [21:53:19] <rgl> chowells79, but, I was convinced that the whole scheme of: H(zz) xor mac_key is very nice in the end.
  187. [21:54:35] <rgl> chowells79, because we can use some nice transformations with the mac_key and the assoc_handle in order for not storing the assoc_handles on the Provider database.
  188. [21:54:56] <chowells79> Ah. That's one point.
  189. [21:55:55] <rgl> chowells79, which was one of those big troubles I was having. like, if you hammered the provider with loads of association requests, you could fill the database. but ith the association scheme its impossible for doing that, because, nothing is stored in the database :D
  190. [21:57:17] <rgl> so, that scheme doesn't buy you anything in security (well, it might, but I'm no crypto guy); but did buy you disc space :D
  191. [21:57:46] <rgl> and in the end, I did learn something clever :)
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