IRC Log for #openid on 2007-08-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:05:22] <openidpibbrelay> <Kevin Fox> doesnt seem to work for me either
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  11. [02:29:42] <Thinkling> I've got an OpenID newbie question: can I have multiple web applications that support OpenId running on one server (i.e. installed in subdirectories or on subdomains) and get a user logged in to all of them by authenticating with their openid once? Or will the user have to tell each application their OpenID and make another round trip to the OpenID provider to authenticate?
  12. [02:31:56] <openidpibbrelay> <wizardwatson> They would each have to make the round trip otherwise you would be authenticating off the first app, similar to google proxy authentication.
  13. [02:32:29] <openidpibbrelay> <wizardwatson> As each individual app does not contain or track the cookie/authentication from the IDP, that would be a security breach.
  14. [02:34:22] <openidpibbrelay> <wizardwatson> I was also contemplating whether you could have some kind of global cookie that says "I'm authenticated via OpenID, please auto-request from my IDP" without having to click some sort of sign in button for each app.
  15. [02:36:05] <openidpibbrelay> <wizardwatson> Problem is you might be signed in with multiple openid's in the same browser session, so you still need to be able to choose which OpenID you want to sign in to each app with.
  16. [02:43:19] <Thinkling> hrmmm. *digesting that*
  17. [02:43:21] <Thinkling> thanks!
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  29. [04:14:10] <jibot> chowells79 is yet another Janrain idler.
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  59. [12:29:45] <jibot> marclaporte is Marc Laporte from Tiki CMS/Groupware
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  87. [17:30:14] <ferai> Would anyone here mind answering some stupid questions that I can't seem to get answers to by googling and looking around?
  88. [17:30:30] <ferai> or maybe not-so-stupid?
  89. [17:31:23] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl081-055-106.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  90. [17:31:32] <keturn> it's worth a shot
  91. [17:31:38] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> ferai, best ask your question than to ask if you can ask :)
  92. [17:33:11] <ferai> I'm wondering about portability between openid providers. For instance, if I go with Verisign's PIP and one day they decide they would like to start charging for that service, is there a way to shift providers?
  93. [17:33:21] <ferai> Or if I go with someone now but someday want to run my own server?
  94. [17:33:42] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> you can use delegation, it's the simplest way.
  95. [17:34:03] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> do you have a homepage where you control the html?
  96. [17:34:08] <ferai> Sure.
  97. [17:34:23] <ferai> So use that homepage as my openid, and in the homepage delegate to whomever I wish
  98. [17:34:28] <ferai> as long as they support delegation?
  99. [17:35:16] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> delegation is mandatory, so they should all support it.
  100. [17:35:43] <ferai> Ahh. Of course, that also means that my web page has to stay up :-) Unless the information gets cached.
  101. [17:35:53] <keturn> the other approach (besides delegation) is that some applications will let you associate more than one identifier to your account, which would give you a way to transition from one to the other. but it'd be a manual transition process for every application you use it with, and unfortunately not all implementations take multiple IDs like that.
  102. [17:36:08] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> basically, you need to add 2-3 lines to your html head
  103. [17:36:12] <ferai> I run my own web server which is up most of the time, but it's hard to get 5 9s...
  104. [17:36:20] <ferai> yeah, I saw how you do the delegation
  105. [17:36:30] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> this has a few instructions: http://intertwingly.net/blog/2007/01/03/OpenID-for-non-SuperUsers
  106. [17:37:22] <ferai> So I think ketum answered my other question
  107. [17:37:30] <ferai> which was, what if I change my web page, or lose my webpage, etc.
  108. [17:37:33] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> with many services, you can associate more than 1 openid to your account, so if your homepage goes down, you can still log in to that service, as long as you registered a few openids.
  109. [17:37:40] <ferai> Yep, okay.
  110. [17:37:57] <ferai> Do you have a recommendation as to which service to use?
  111. [17:38:07] <ferai> PIP, MyOpenID...?
  112. [17:38:16] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> I use claimid and myopenid
  113. [17:38:36] <ferai> What the benefit to having both?
  114. [17:38:37] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> there is also certifi.ca which uses ssl certificates and a few more like that.
  115. [17:39:07] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> like I said, if one goes down, I can use the other one (at least on Jyte)
  116. [17:39:37] <ferai> Ah, okay. So you're talking about a situation where the openid provider goes down, not just your web page with the delegation code.
  117. [17:40:00] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> although that shouldn't happen.... you never know.
  118. [17:40:24] <ferai> Right. Is there a way to list two services to delegate to? In case one is currently unreachable?
  119. [17:40:47] <ferai> i.e. if you have the openid.server/openid.delegate code twice?
  120. [17:40:52] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> not that I know.... you'd have to change it manually.
  121. [17:41:12] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> or write a bit of code to do it automatically.
  122. [17:41:33] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> I never tried to use the delegate code twice, it might work... if you try, let me know :)
  123. [17:41:46] <ferai> heh, okay
  124. [17:41:46] <ferai> thanks
  125. [17:42:02] <ferai> might be hard to test, but I could do some futzing around with /etc/hosts or the like to make the first one fail to be reachable
  126. [17:42:25] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> sounds like a plan!
  127. [17:43:13] <ferai> have anything to say about inames?
  128. [17:43:17] <ferai> I saw them through the openid info site
  129. [17:43:28] <ferai> they look like they've been around for a long time and have yet to gain traction
  130. [17:43:50] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> in openid 2.0, I think inames are supported as well, but I'm not 100% sure.
  131. [17:44:25] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> I got a free one but generally, you have to pay for an iname I think, but again, I'm really not sure.
  132. [17:44:51] <ferai> Yeah, just reduced to $12 a year
  133. [17:47:35] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> oh, one thing to consider is that some openid consumers are already starting to use whitelists, like aol.
  134. [17:48:40] <ferai> Hmm, can you explain that?
  135. [17:48:50] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> so in some cases, (I hope the situation isn't going to get worst), a service only accepts openids from big names. In that case, selfhosting (the actual openid server) might be a problem, but it works if you delegate.
  136. [17:49:13] <ferai> Ahh. Okay. So I should be fine probably with Verisign or MyOpenID
  137. [17:49:28] <ferai> If I delegate to them
  138. [17:50:19] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> http://dev.aol.com/node/578
  139. [17:51:03] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> delegation should work, yes.
  140. [17:51:14] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> It's just something to keep in mind.
  141. [17:51:27] <ferai> Yep. Thanks for helping out an OpenID n00b.
  142. [17:51:34] <ferai> You too keturn.
  143. [17:51:45] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> It's a pleasure :)
  144. [17:52:05] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> I haven't been on IRC for a while, it's nice to help :)
  145. [17:52:27] <ferai> Where's the relay coming from?
  146. [17:52:32] <ferai> A Jabber room?
  147. [17:52:47] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> https://pibb.com/go/openid/general
  148. [17:53:26] <trel1023> ferai: you can also use an xrds file
  149. [17:53:28] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> pibb works with OpenID, of course
  150. [17:53:37] <trel1023> to delegate to 'more than one'
  151. [17:53:54] <trel1023> you encode your priority - and it serves as a failover
  152. [17:54:01] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> ah, I'm gonna have to look into that, thanks for the tip, trel
  153. [17:54:08] <trel1023> for when your first priority provider is 'offline' or whatever
  154. [17:54:15] <trel1023> it goes to your #2
  155. [17:54:33] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> that's openid 2.0, or ..?
  156. [17:54:35] <ferai> trel1023: do you happen to have example code?
  157. [17:54:47] <trel1023> http://terrellrussell.com/xrds
  158. [17:55:07] <trel1023> likewise - http://brianellin.com/xrds
  159. [17:56:03] <trel1023> it's part of openid 1.1 as i understand it - works for me well before there was any 2.0 code
  160. [17:56:26] <ferai> Hmm I saw code you put in <head></head> of your HTML...
  161. [17:56:41] <trel1023> yes, that's delegation 'old style'
  162. [17:56:45] <ferai> Ah.
  163. [17:56:49] <ferai> So this is the better way to do it now.
  164. [17:57:12] <trel1023> <meta http-equiv="x-xrds-location" content="http://www.terrellrussell.com/xrds" />
  165. [17:57:20] <trel1023> that's in the head of terrellrussell.com itself
  166. [17:57:25] <ferai> Ah. Nice.
  167. [17:57:45] <trel1023> and the current libraries will pick that up - and do the failover without any trouble
  168. [17:58:24] <openidpibbrelay> <Robin> I'll be upgrading on my end, cool.
  169. [17:58:33] <trel1023> a slight security concern in listing all your accounts in one place perhaps - but... come to that bridge when you get there, if you're worried about it
  170. [17:59:04] <trel1023> this is still such edge technology, there's probably not a great risk anyways
  171. [17:59:22] * pvandewyngaerde (n=pvandewy@161.78-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) Quit ("http://www.last.fm/user/pvandewyngaerde/ http://www.jamendo.com http://amarok.kde.org/")
  172. [17:59:28] <ferai> trel1023: besides, that assumes you're listing all your accounts...
  173. [17:59:39] <ferai> instead of just, say two
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  175. [18:00:00] <trel1023> sure
  176. [18:03:37] <ferai> trel1023: When I try signing into this chat room through Pibb using openid, using my delegated web page, I get errors
  177. [18:03:44] <ferai> works with either of my delegates directly
  178. [18:03:49] <ferai> would you mind taking a look?
  179. [18:05:33] <trel1023> sure
  180. [18:14:15] <trel1023> anyone here on the pibb team?
  181. [18:14:38] <trel1023> not sure which of you crazy kids does what over there in janrain land
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  186. [18:50:34] <jibot> brianellin is an engineer at JanRain
  187. [18:50:54] <trel1023> hey hey brianellin
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  194. [20:53:58] <_keturn> huh, there's an OpenID article in the #1 spot on programming.reddit right now.
  195. [21:01:58] * SunWuKung (i=SunWuKun@S01060016cbc4c705.vc.shawcable.net) has joined #openid
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  197. [21:25:24] <BlackDiamonds> hey guys I'm confused on what openid really is
  198. [21:25:35] <BlackDiamonds> lets say I go to an ID provider and get one
  199. [21:25:49] <BlackDiamonds> and my URL is me.provider.com
  200. [21:26:06] <BlackDiamonds> and I go to www.site.com, I just give my URL to them ?
  201. [21:26:50] <_keturn> yep.
  202. [21:27:35] <BlackDiamonds> crazy
  203. [21:27:44] <GabeW> ITS NUTS
  204. [21:27:45] <BlackDiamonds> now, lets say I want to keep all my online identities seperate
  205. [21:27:46] <GabeW> ITS WILD
  206. [21:27:48] <GabeW> hehe
  207. [21:27:53] <BlackDiamonds> can I have like more than one me ?
  208. [21:27:58] <GabeW> as many as you want
  209. [21:28:06] <BlackDiamonds> MIND STATUS = BLOWN
  210. [21:28:17] <GabeW> until the man comes down and forces you to reveal your one True Identity
  211. [21:29:13] <BlackDiamonds> now, is myopenid the offical provider of ids ?
  212. [21:32:36] <_keturn> nope, we're just one of many.
  213. [21:32:42] <BlackDiamonds> ok
  214. [21:32:45] <BlackDiamonds> and one last thing
  215. [21:32:59] <BlackDiamonds> when people at Mozilla say Firefox 3 will have OpenID support, what do they mean ?
  216. [21:33:19] <_keturn> that one I don't know the answer to :-/
  217. [22:05:58] <johill> maybe it'll just be openid autocompletion ;)
  218. [22:14:46] * markjones (n=markjone@c-76-17-123-161.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  219. [22:33:41] <brianellin> ?forgetme
  220. [22:33:41] <jibot> I have expunged brianellin from my mind
  221. [22:35:54] <openidpibbrelay> <cygnus> it seems that jibot has a bad memory of who he's forgotten. :)
  222. [22:40:49] * falkor81 (n=brianlan@rrcs-24-106-184-150.se.biz.rr.com) Quit ()
  223. [22:48:13] * wzph (n=wzph@rrcs-64-183-45-246.west.biz.rr.com) has joined #openid
  224. [22:58:49] * pvandewyngaerde (n=pvandewy@58.20-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) Quit ("http://www.last.fm/user/pvandewyngaerde/ http://www.jamendo.com http://amarok.kde.org/")
  225. [23:09:11] * brianellin (n=brianell@c-71-236-228-127.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit ("Leaving")
  226. [23:16:22] * markjones (n=markjone@c-76-20-233-71.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #openid
  227. [23:22:50] * shanoi (n=jonson@85.207.40.218) has joined #openid
  228. [23:23:13] * SunWuKung (i=SunWuKun@S01060016cbc4c705.vc.shawcable.net) Quit ("--out")
  229. [23:54:16] * AaronF_ (n=AaronF@wsip-68-15-8-102.sd.sd.cox.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))

These logs were automatically created by OpenIDlogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.