IRC Log for #openid on 2007-08-18
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [03:53:23] <GabeW>
if anyone is interested, there exists #oauth
- [03:53:53] <VxJasonxV>
Is it linked to the oauth Pibb channel? :D
- [03:54:32] <openidpibbrelay>
<Gabe Wachob> hmm
- [03:54:34] <openidpibbrelay>
<Gabe Wachob> thats a good question
- [03:54:42] <openidpibbrelay>
<Gabe Wachob> clearly not
- [03:54:53] <openidpibbrelay>
<Gabe Wachob> but I will bug someone like _keturn
- [03:55:23] <VxJasonxV>
You can ask Kevin Fox
- [03:55:28] <VxJasonxV>
he's very generally responsive and helpful
- [03:55:33] <GabeW>
oh yah
- [03:55:37] <GabeW>
he was pibb-man
- [03:55:38] <GabeW>
at IIW
- [03:55:42] <VxJasonxV>
heh
- [03:55:52] <VxJasonxV>
I was about to ask what you meant by /was/ :P
- [03:56:07] <openidpibbrelay>
<Gabe Wachob> yah, I had him whacked a few minutes ago
- [03:56:17] <GabeW>
this is awfully wierd being in the channel and on pibb
- [03:56:25] <VxJasonxV>
But it's cool
- [03:59:03] <GabeW>
truly, though,
- [03:59:08] <GabeW>
i should only have one identity
- [03:59:11] <GabeW>
be it on IRC or pibb
- [03:59:14] <GabeW>
:-?
- [03:59:20] <VxJasonxV>
Use Pibb
- [03:59:23] <VxJasonxV>
OpenID r--lz
- [03:59:26] <VxJasonxV>
r00lz*
- [03:59:38] <GabeW>
har
- [03:59:39] <GabeW>
but
- [03:59:46] <GabeW>
pibb is only on this channel and one other
- [03:59:54] <GabeW>
i am on about 15 irc channels
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- [05:54:39] <openidpibbrelay>
<Kevin Fox> we are working on adding more
- [05:55:20] <openidpibbrelay>
<Kevin Fox> channels
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- [12:27:51] <Mavvie>
How does the OpenID authentication and the FOAF project link? Are they two different things or are they related?
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- [17:03:31] <VxJasonxV>
Mavvie, two entirely different things.
- [17:03:49] <VxJasonxV>
Hey Kevin, I was wondering
- [17:03:56] <VxJasonxV>
Why is Pibb pure SSL anyways?
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- [18:50:22] <openidpibbrelay>
<keturn> Encrypted For Your Protection.
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- [20:17:19] <Peng>
Argh. What the hell is with OpenID servers using stupid user-agents?
- [20:17:33] <Peng>
I don't block libwww-perl anymore, but I still want to block "".
- [20:17:43] * Peng thwacks Pibb.
- [20:17:58] <Peng>
Err, not servers. Websites that use OpenID for logins. You know what I mean.
- [20:18:08] <Peng>
Idiots.
- [20:21:13] <openidpibbrelay>
<cygnus> Um, the user-agent is advisory *at best*.
- [20:24:18] <Peng>
Yeah, and blocking bots too stupid to at least fake a real user-agent helps block some spambots.
- [20:24:27] <Peng>
I'm usually nicer. Maybe I read too much IncrediBILL. :)
- [20:29:18] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Hm, Pibb is interesting.
- [20:29:25] <Peng>
And openidpibbrelay is a little slow.
- [20:35:17] <keturn>
huh. Pibb doesn't send a U-A? I'll have to make sure to check that in the ruby lib.
- [20:36:25] <Peng>
:)
- [20:36:29] <Peng>
Yeah, it didn't send one.
- [20:36:44] <Peng>
Ruby lib, huh?
- [20:51:49] <keturn>
I think the part of pibb that sends those requests is in Ruby. I could be wrong about that.
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- [20:54:29] <keturn>
Pibb is a research project by a code-generating artificial intelligence, and the virtual machines it chooses to carry out its subprocesses change on a whim and are neigh unpredictable to human engineers.
- [20:55:18] <keturn>
(perhaps that should be a jyte claim or two.)
- [20:55:44] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Was the AI built by Google? :)
- [20:56:13] <idnar>
nah, Cyberdyne Systems
- [20:57:01] <Peng>
Heh.
- [20:57:28] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> (me == Peng)
- [20:57:38] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> ** Matt Nordhoff alt-tabs back to X-Chat. :)
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- [21:16:17] <idnar>
heh
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- [21:18:48] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Actually, I'm still exploring Pibb. :(
- [21:19:19] <openidpibbrelay>
<Kevin Fox> any questions?
- [21:19:29] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Not too many.
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- [21:19:40] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> I was just stalking you to try to find interesting channels. :)
- [21:19:50] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Any way to mark things as unread?
- [21:21:34] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Netnews lets you mark messages as unread, but I haven't found that anywhere on the web. It's annoying.
- [21:22:46] <openidpibbrelay>
<Kevin Fox> just to scroll through them
- [21:22:56] <openidpibbrelay>
<Kevin Fox> or fast forward with the arrows
- [21:23:06] <openidpibbrelay>
<Kevin Fox> errr unread
- [21:23:08] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Yeah. :P
- [21:23:26] <openidpibbrelay>
<Kevin Fox> sorry, no, no way for unread at the moment, working on ability to *star* messages
- [21:25:19] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Well, while you're doing that, unread would be nice too. :)
- [21:26:11] <openidpibbrelay>
<Kevin Fox> will add it to the list :)
- [21:26:31] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Thanks. :)
- [21:27:47] <idnar>
I guess I should take a look at pibb
- [21:28:13] <idnar>
a closer look, anyhow
- [21:28:16] <idnar>
it seems like a rather awkward proposition
- [21:28:34] <openidpibbrelay>
<Kevin Fox> its not though :)
- [21:29:05] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Yeah, it is pretty neat.
- [21:29:14] <idnar>
I mean, the core idea seems great
- [21:29:16] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> And no trouble to try.
- [21:29:36] <idnar>
but in terms of user interface, I don't really see it being workable for me
- [21:29:54] <idnar>
"pibb.com also asked for additional information. It did not provide a link to the policy on data it collects."
- [21:29:57] <idnar>
tsk tsk ;)
- [21:30:08] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Hmm. Pibb -> IRC is slower than IRC -> Pibb.
- [21:30:29] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Heh. All I gave it was my name and time zone, and it didn't complain.
- [21:30:49] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Ooh, no nick autocomplete in Pibb. That's a bad thing.
- [21:31:25] <idnar>
the interface seems pretty slick, but webapps currently have some pretty major limitations in terms of notification and so on
- [21:31:31] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Pibb needs more docs. A help section and an OpenID data policy thing too, I guess.
- [21:31:38] <idnar>
is there some kind of third-party API?
- [21:31:53] <openidpibbrelay>
<Kevin Fox> OpenID data policy?
- [21:32:03] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> ** Matt Nordhoff points up.
- [21:32:14] <openidpibbrelay>
<Kevin Fox> http://janrain.com/products/how-to-use-the-pibb-openid-communication-platform/
- [21:32:24] <openidpibbrelay>
<Kevin Fox> help section
- [21:32:35] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Ah. Yeah, that is pretty good.
- [21:32:57] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> I heard "screencast", and I don't have sound working, so I didn't check it out.
- [21:33:08] <openidpibbrelay>
<mithrandi> whee
- [21:33:10] <openidpibbrelay>
<Kevin Fox> our Terms of Service have our data sharing policies
- [21:33:29] <openidpibbrelay>
<mithrandi> ** mithrandi waves for the camera
- [21:33:33] <gregdh>
and why doesn't pibb.com mention xmpp?
- [21:33:40] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Well, of course I knew that, because of course I read them before signing up. Coughcough.
- [21:34:21] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Ooh. Either me or gregdh had the 500th message in this...channel.
- [21:34:25] <idnar>
whoa, XMPP, what?
- [21:34:44] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> And topic.
- [21:34:56] * idnar checks out the screencast
- [21:35:15] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> There's a screencast?
- [21:35:16] <gregdh>
well, pibb doesn't seem to be based on xmpp, yet it's some kind of IM thing. seems like somebody missed that boat
- [21:35:17] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> "Logged In Users" is in an arbitrary order?
- [21:36:16] <idnar>
ah
- [21:36:26] <idnar>
well, an XMPP interface would be useful, because then I could integrate it with my existing stuff
- [21:36:33] <idnar>
don't know how well that would work, though
- [21:36:51] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> ** Matt Nordhoff looks up XMPP.
- [21:37:21] <openidpibbrelay>
<Kevin Fox> jabber
- [21:37:24] <idnar>
it's the protocol Jabber uses
- [21:37:42] <openidpibbrelay>
<Kevin Fox> a bridge to jabber/xmpp is on the list
- [21:37:44] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Oh, neat.
- [21:37:54] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> I barely know anything about Jabber, though. :P
- [21:38:02] <keturn>
I see pibb as targetting the phpbb space as much (or more) than the xmpp space
- [21:38:05] <openidpibbrelay>
<Kevin Fox> IRC was just a test
- [21:38:47] <openidpibbrelay>
<Kevin Fox> we want all spaces :) though ya phpbb is closer than xmpp stuff
- [21:39:07] <openidpibbrelay>
<Kevin Fox> brb
- [21:39:24] <idnar>
"web forums" and "bulletin boards" drive me batty, because they're so cumbersome to track; but for that sort of thing, I tend to prefer mailing lists
- [21:39:39] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Yuck, mailing lists. Newsgroups++.
- [21:39:59] <idnar>
pretty easy to gateway between newsgroups and mailing lists
- [21:40:10] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Yeah.
- [21:40:20] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Mailing lists always have screwed-up threading.
- [21:40:21] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Due to crappy clients that don't understand it?
- [21:40:31] <idnar>
honestly, I also think newsgroups are better; it's mainly a matter of the client software I have at my disposal
- [21:40:48] <idnar>
unfortunately, RSS / Atom don't seem to be a rich enough interface for consuming either newsgroups/mailing lists, or web forums and the like
- [21:41:11] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> I guess newsgroups are "pull" while mailing lists are "push". That should make it more efficient too.
- [21:41:52] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Not that my last sentence meant anything.
- [21:41:57] <idnar>
should make what more efficient, mailing lists?
- [21:42:13] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Just in bandwidth consumption./
- [21:42:20] <idnar>
there's sort of a trade-off
- [21:42:32] <idnar>
pulling newsgroups is probably more efficient than pulling RSS/Atom feeds, though
- [21:42:33] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Mailing lists have to send messages to every subscriber while newsgroups only have to send them to the subscribers that are actually reading it.
- [21:42:44] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> It doesn't really matter anyway.
- [21:42:46] <idnar>
ah.
- [21:43:02] <idnar>
the flip side of that is that your NNTP client has to poll the news server continually
- [21:43:10] <idnar>
then again, most people's mail clients do that anyway
- [21:43:16] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Your POP3 client does too.
- [21:43:17] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Yeah.
- [21:43:24] <Peng>
Blah, 6 seconds apart.
- [21:43:26] <idnar>
but there are "push" mailbox protocols
- [21:43:36] <idnar>
cellphone clients have made that sort of thing more popular
- [21:43:36] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> IMAP?
- [21:44:05] <idnar>
I think that kind of "intermittent subscription" is probably best
- [21:44:24] <idnar>
you have some kind of push protocol between servers
- [21:44:28] <idnar>
like SMTP
- [21:44:28] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Hmph. I can see 14 lines at a time in Pibb and 69 in X-Chat.
- [21:44:55] <idnar>
and then when you run your user agent, it associates with your server, and stuff gets pushed to your user agent as it arrives
- [21:46:00] <idnar>
I'd really like it if I had one piece of software for dealing with e-mail, newsgroups, feeds, etc.
- [21:46:19] <idnar>
or one interface, anyhow
- [21:46:23] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Opera? :D
- [21:46:59] <idnar>
I haven't actually used Opera in ages, so I don't know how it handles those sorts of things; but does it really have a combined interface for them?
- [21:47:25] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> I don't know. I just use it as a web browser.
- [21:47:36] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> I checked out its IRC client once but didn't like it. It looked really basic.
- [21:47:53] <idnar>
I know various people do things like gatewaying their feeds to e-mail, but no single piece of software seems to have enough functionality to suit my needs
- [21:48:36] <idnar>
I read some mailing lists via gmane and others via e-mail just because I can find a newsreader that works better for some things than my MUA
- [21:48:59] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> I use(d) Thunderbird for both, so..
- [21:49:44] <idnar>
I'm probably more of a power user than most; I'm currently on more than 60 mailing lists
- [21:49:56] <idnar>
(and I'm in something like 35 IRC channels at the moment)
- [21:50:52] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Aww, I'm only in 24 IRC channels. I lose.
- [21:52:02] <idnar>
heehee
- [21:52:47] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> I might be subscribed to 30 or 40 mailing lists, though.
- [21:52:58] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Though all they're doing is flooding my Gmail account.
- [21:53:03] <idnar>
heh
- [21:53:53] <idnar>
anyhow, yeah; one of the problems I usually have with using web forums is that keeping track of them means visiting N sites every day, rather than just firing up my mail client (or whatever)
- [21:54:46] <idnar>
if I could check them all out in Pibb, that would be great; but of course, that's not likely to happen any time soon, without gatewaying software or similar
- [21:54:58] <gregdh>
a while ago I wrote a little app for myself that reminded me to visit various web sites at paticular intervals, to see what changed
- [21:55:13] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> I have a simple solution to that: I just don't keep track of any forums much. :)
- [21:55:19] <gregdh>
it was all ajaxy so all I would do is click on the link, the site would open in another window and the link would vanish until the next <n> days
- [21:55:20] <idnar>
hmm, that's odd
- [21:55:24] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Blah, I have like four months of backlog on two. Oops.
- [21:55:35] <idnar>
my Pibb window for this seems to have stalled
- [21:55:52] <idnar>
oh I see, I wasn't keeping up, so I get to page through it
- [21:55:55] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Huh. Hasn't happened to me yet.
- [21:56:06] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Oh.
- [21:56:28] <openidpibbrelay>
<mithrandi> and I'm back in realtime :)
- [22:00:14] * pvandewyngaerde (n=pvandewy@47.26-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) Quit ("http://www.last.fm/user/pvandewyngaerde/ http://www.jamendo.com http://amarok.kde.org/")
- [22:02:27] * Flenser (n=Miranda@twiki/developer/SamHasler) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
- [22:02:53] * brianellin (n=brianell@65.87.23.35) has joined #openid
- [22:04:44] <idnar>
is openidpibbrelay using super s3kr1t backend access on the Pibb side?
- [22:05:47] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Super s3kr1t and slow too.
- [22:05:57] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> A little.
- [22:06:07] <idnar>
yeah, the latency is a bit funny
- [22:06:29] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Yeah, latency, that's the word.
- [22:07:32] <gregdh>
it's just a thin tube :)
- [22:07:43] * brianellin (n=brianell@65.87.23.35) Quit (Client Quit)
- [22:08:21] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Bleh, jumpy, slow ajax interface.
- [22:08:42] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> It doesn't take half a second of jumpiness to switch tabs in X-Chat.
- [22:09:13] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> No matter how much people work on web interfaces, it's always "well, this is mostly as good as a regular interface, right?"
- [22:09:50] <idnar>
heh
- [22:09:57] <idnar>
that's partly the browser's fault
- [22:10:15] <idnar>
but "regular" interfaces are often pretty awful, too
- [22:11:49] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> As I said, it doesn't take half a second of jumpiness to switch tabs in X-Chat.
- [22:19:09] * SvenDowideit (n=sven@124-170-226-191.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit (Connection timed out)
- [22:20:04] * SvenDowideit (n=sven@124-170-230-106.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #openid
- [22:24:50] * craigoz (n=craigo@202.63.56.72) has joined #openid
- [22:26:01] * craigoz (n=craigo@202.63.56.72) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
- [22:27:07] * VxJasonxV (n=jason@xmms2/troll/VxJasonxV) has joined #openid
- [22:27:07] <jibot>
VxJasonxV is just another OpenID fan. Though he understands Yadis and follows it's progression.
- [22:27:46] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Gah. I think someone has said something in the channel, and it's just jibot announcing someone joined. :(
- [22:27:52] <idnar>
heh
- [22:28:10] <idnar>
hmm, that's one problem with the gateway, you can't see who's around on the IRC side
- [22:28:28] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> The gateway could announce such things.
- [22:30:21] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Hmm, I just had the UI go blank when I clicked on a channel after searching for it.
- [22:33:55] * wzph (n=wzph@pool-71-102-155-200.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [22:36:24] <VxJasonxV>
Now that the relay is up, should we kick jibot out?
- [22:39:00] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Does he do anything?
- [22:43:29] <GabeW>
um
- [22:43:30] <GabeW>
i like jibot
- [22:43:33] <GabeW>
but
- [22:43:40] <GabeW>
jibot should be pibb-enabled, methinks
- [22:43:49] <GabeW>
jibot lets me know who people are...
- [22:47:09] * AaronF (n=AaronF@ip68-101-200-165.sd.sd.cox.net) Quit ("Leaving")
- [22:54:22] <gregdh>
jibot is still here? I /ignore'd him months ago :)
- [22:58:27] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Heh, good idea.
- [22:58:48] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Does Pibb have ignoring?
- [23:14:13] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> I have an on-topic question for once... If I switched my OpenID URL from http to https, would it still be the same identity?
- [23:22:41] <openidpibbrelay>
<Kevin Fox> it should be... I think
- [23:23:35] <gregdh>
it depends on how the RP handles that
- [23:23:51] <gregdh>
in theory they could be different identities, so a careful RP would distinguish between them
- [23:26:21] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Yeah, but they won't be if I enable HTTPS on my site and want to use it for OpenID. I guess I'll just have to try it to see how different sites behave.
- [23:26:31] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Is this mentioned in the spec or anything?
- [23:27:08] <keturn>
no, https://example.com and http://example.com are different identifiers.
- [23:27:58] <keturn>
http://openid.net/specs/openid-authentication-2_0-12.html#http_s_identifiers
- [23:28:04] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Shoot.
- [23:29:02] <keturn>
HTTPS identifiers are more secure. You don't want an application treating a HTTP identifier as equivalent to it.
- [23:30:07] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Yeah, but what am I supposed to do whenever I start using HTTPS and all of my OpenID stuff is still using HTTP?
- [23:30:56] <gregdh>
use RPs that can attach more than one identifier to a local account :)
- [23:31:31] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> ...
- [23:32:12] <gregdh>
yeah, it's hardly ideal
- [23:47:19] * michelp (n=michelp@69-30-72-119.dq1sf.easystreet.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [23:52:31] * michelp (n=michelp@69-30-72-119.dq1sf.easystreet.com) has joined #openid
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