IRC Log for #openid on 2007-10-18
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [00:16:01] <benbangert>
hmmm
- [00:16:33] <benbangert>
I don't suppose anyone has a recommendation on a user-friendly message to show during the HTML form display that now occurs during POST with OpenID 2.0?
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- [00:26:09] <jibot>
marclaporte is Marc Laporte from Tiki CMS/Groupware
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- [02:24:46] <jibot>
marclaporte is Marc Laporte from Tiki CMS/Groupware
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- [02:43:33] <jibot>
marclaporte is Marc Laporte from Tiki CMS/Groupware
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- [02:55:52] <openid_pibb>
<Atom Dude> benbangert - which post are you refering to?
- [02:56:36] <benbangert>
During OpenID 2.0, the RP may find out that a OP wishes you to POST the credentials
- [02:56:53] <benbangert>
so the libs docs that I've seen, have it throw up a form with the POST to the OP, using a meta refresh
- [02:57:16] <benbangert>
so the user only sees it for a second... but they're still left wondering about the screen that just popped up, instead of the immediate redirect OpenID 1.0 has
- [03:01:39] * marclaporte (n=Marc_Lap@tikiwiki/marclaporte) has joined #openid
- [03:01:39] <jibot>
marclaporte is Marc Laporte from Tiki CMS/Groupware
- [03:01:41] <openid_pibb>
<Atom Dude> oh i see - presumably the browser will POST the form so fast that the the user will not see it
- [03:02:55] <openid_pibb>
<Atom Dude> i would think that most OPs will return a form with some javascript to auto-submit the form to the RP
- [03:14:38] <openid_pibb>
<Atom Dude> likewise if the RP is sending the Auth request to the OP, it can just return some html with the form and some Javascript to autosubmit it
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- [03:40:29] <benbangert>
yea, that does occur
- [03:40:47] <benbangert>
however, depending on the speed of the POST to the OP, a user could be staring at it for a good few seconds
- [03:41:01] <benbangert>
if the OP isn't lightning quick, there's plenty of time to wonder what you're looking at
- [03:46:22] <openid_pibb>
<Atom Dude> the RP should return as little as possible to the browser. there should be no images, no css, no external objects. just the form, and JS to submit the form.
- [03:47:03] <openid_pibb>
<Atom Dude> oh i see your point, the OP could suck and be slow
- [03:47:24] <openid_pibb>
<Atom Dude> well, hopefully, most of your users will have fast OPs
- [03:48:18] <openid_pibb>
<Atom Dude> although, now with OpenID 2.0, OPs are supposed to perform realm verification on the RP, so there could be some latency
- [03:54:10] <benbangert>
hmm, a blank page doesn't sound that good
- [03:54:34] <benbangert>
the JanRain example consumer shows a page thats almost as mysterious as nothing though, about, "Please wait while OpenID does something or rather"
- [03:59:33] <openid_pibb>
<Atom Dude> A "good" OP should display "something" to the user as soon as it receives the auth request
- [04:00:17] <openid_pibb>
<Atom Dude> i woudl think that the burden is on the OP to display an interstitial page if it's unable to display anything useful to the user
- [04:10:21] <benbangert>
well, in this case, its the time it takes the OP to fulfill the POST
- [04:10:47] <benbangert>
even a fast one like myopenid.com still leaves the user for about a full second on the page thats POSTing
- [04:31:17] <openid_pibb>
<Atom Dude> it seems that this is really the OP's problem
- [04:31:58] <openid_pibb>
<Atom Dude> one possible solution is for the OP to throw up "something" while it's doing its processing, so the user doens't have to look at a blank screen
- [04:33:02] <openid_pibb>
<Atom Dude> alternatively, the RP could display a "please wait..." screen at the top of the HTML, with the form with the auth request at the bottom of the page
- [04:38:04] <benbangert>
errr, well, its the fault of the browser for not acting fast enough
- [04:38:27] <benbangert>
somtimes a slow webapp being the OP might not take the POST instantly, until it handles the POST, and sends a reply, the client is left watching whatever is on the screen
- [04:38:49] <benbangert>
mild latency from other countries could easily cause a decent amount of lag on this as well
- [04:39:14] <benbangert>
but yea, displaying a please wait... seems like the best bet
- [04:40:17] <openid_pibb>
<Atom Dude> an RP that really cares about user experience can show a "please wait HTML" with the auth request form at the bottom. This would probably be optimal
- [04:41:29] <openid_pibb>
<Atom Dude> bennagert - out of curiosity - where are you located? is latency an issue for you when you browse to US based websites?
- [04:42:31] <benbangert>
nah, I'm in California, latency isn't much of an issue
- [04:42:43] <benbangert>
in my testing, I regularly have time to see the whole page pop-up
- [04:42:57] <benbangert>
I'll minimize it some more and see if that helps on speed
- [04:48:29] <openid_pibb>
<Atom Dude> ok - well in openid 2.0, OPs are supposed to make a direct call back to the RP (this is new in draft 12) which could cause additional latencyu
- [04:49:02] <benbangert>
ahh, while the POST is occuring?
- [05:06:01] <openid_pibb>
<Atom Dude> yes - the OP is supposed to verify the RP's realm by calling back to the RP. This potentially could be cached by smart OPs
- [05:07:04] <openid_pibb>
<Atom Dude> see section 13 in the spec http://openid.net/specs/openid-authentication-2_0-12.html#rp_discovery
- [05:07:56] <openid_pibb>
<Atom Dude> this allows an OP to determine if the realm is bogus or not
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- [10:57:30] <jibot>
marclaporte is Marc Laporte from Tiki CMS/Groupware
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- [15:34:36] <mmealling>
anyone seen any blog entries on whether there is any integration between OpenAuth and OpenID?
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- [16:03:34] <trel1023>
you mean oauth?
- [16:03:40] <trel1023>
there is no formal integration
- [16:03:59] <trel1023>
but the spec points out that the two technologies dovetail nicely
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- [16:09:53] <mmealling>
trel1023, I guess its oauth (the spec that AOL released, right?)
- [16:10:17] <trel1023>
openauth is aol i think
- [16:10:28] <trel1023>
oauth is the one announced a couple weeks ago
- [16:10:33] <trel1023>
oauth.net
- [16:12:19] <mmealling>
ok.... yea, different specs....
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- [19:19:27] <openid_pibb>
<=eran> OpenID + OAuth: http://groups.google.com/group/oauth/browse_thread/thread/9af5c0368f8a1162
- [19:19:47] <openid_pibb>
<=eran> Is there a test service for OpenID RPs?
- [19:21:26] <johill>
yeah but I forgot where it is :)
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- [19:22:44] <johill>
oh wait, sorry, no, there's a test for providers that I know
- [19:29:13] <openid_pibb>
<=eran> yeah, I found that one
- [19:29:29] <johill>
I've tested my RP against a fewproviders by just signing up and trying it
- [19:29:34] <johill>
but I don't know of a test suite per se
- [19:29:44] <openid_pibb>
<=eran> I need to figure out why my RP isn't coming up with the same signature
- [19:29:57] <johill>
oh heh
- [19:30:05] <johill>
never had that sort of problem using the janrain libs
- [19:30:25] <openid_pibb>
<=eran> I'm writing a new C++ OpenID 2.0 lib
- [19:30:35] <openid_pibb>
<=eran> so its all new code
- [19:30:55] <johill>
right
- [19:31:22] <johill>
can't much help you with that in any case, I'm just a (happy) user of the libs and gleefully ignoring most of the details
- [19:59:20] <openid_pibb>
<=eran> 6 hours later turns out I was double URL encoding the public key...
- [19:59:40] <openid_pibb>
<=eran> :-(
- [20:02:16] <GabeW>
that happens
- [20:02:17] <GabeW>
a lot
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- [20:13:58] <openid_pibb>
<=eran> We really need a test server that will tell show you what is going on
- [20:14:09] <openid_pibb>
<=eran> when an RP is connecting etc.
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- [20:14:51] <openid_pibb>
<=eran> but at least now I'm 98% done with a full OpenID 2.0 library in C++
- [20:15:13] <openid_pibb>
<=eran> just waiting on the final word on XRI Resolution...
- [20:15:24] <GabeW>
cool
- [20:15:55] <GabeW>
just FYI, we had a call today and tehre were *no* proposed substantive changes - we're reviewing the last editor's draft now
- [20:16:46] <openid_pibb>
<=eran> the last one posted has a lot of notes on it and some missing sections
- [20:19:59] <GabeW>
the things missing are not really substantive
- [20:20:05] <GabeW>
like "conformance requirements"
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- [21:08:56] <openid_pibb>
<=eran> openid.org is so BAD!
- [21:09:16] <openid_pibb>
<=eran> They even do HTTP wrong
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- [22:27:03] <jibot>
marclaporte is Marc Laporte from Tiki CMS/Groupware
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