IRC Log for #openid on 2008-01-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:45:07] * shigeta (n=shigeta@124.32.114.226) has joined #openid
  2. [01:29:05] * stub (n=stub@ppp-58-8-8-253.revip2.asianet.co.th) has joined #openid
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  4. [01:47:55] * miyagawa (n=miyagawa@monster.bulknews.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  14. [03:20:17] * shigeta_ (n=shigeta@124.32.114.226) has joined #openid
  15. [03:36:01] * shigeta (n=shigeta@124.32.114.226) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  16. [03:57:24] * keturn (n=kevint@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/keturn) has joined #openid
  17. [03:57:24] <jibot> keturn is Kevin Turner
  18. [04:44:44] <bluesmoon> hey keturn
  19. [04:57:54] * huperniketes_afk (n=huperni@fl-71-49-103-149.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) has joined #openid
  20. [05:13:24] * stub (n=stub@canonical/launchpad/stub) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  24. [05:36:57] * danbri (n=danbri@unaffiliated/danbri) Quit ()
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  32. [07:36:17] * stub (n=stub@ppp-58-8-8-253.revip2.asianet.co.th) has joined #openid
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  36. [08:42:05] * stub (n=stub@canonical/launchpad/stub) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
  37. [08:42:21] * stu1 is now known as stub
  38. [08:47:31] * MrTopf_ (n=cs@62.47.104.114) has joined #openid
  39. [08:48:01] * SvenDowideit__ (n=SvenDowi@124-168-147-38.dyn.iinet.net.au) Quit ("Leaving")
  40. [09:12:05] * potato (i=potato@dsl-242-15-60.telkomadsl.co.za) has joined #openid
  41. [09:12:39] * potato (i=potato@dsl-242-15-60.telkomadsl.co.za) Quit (Client Quit)
  42. [09:14:26] * potato (i=potato@dsl-242-15-60.telkomadsl.co.za) has joined #openid
  43. [09:15:37] * potato is now known as quirim
  44. [09:24:11] * terraces (n=alex@ks34187.kimsufi.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  45. [09:43:40] * _Danilo_ (n=Danilo@host224-106-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #openid
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  47. [09:52:53] * hillsy (i=shaunh@npfit2.dh.bytemark.co.uk) has joined #openid
  48. [10:45:19] <Makenshi> I think a dynamically generated foaf won't be so great when you have 20,000 accounts
  49. [11:18:32] * MrTopf_ (n=cs@62.47.104.114) Quit ()
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  56. [12:09:53] * polyonymous-note (n=hacker@pD95383BC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  57. [12:12:47] * tjohns (n=tjohns@cpe-76-170-58-80.socal.res.rr.com) Quit ()
  58. [12:16:00] * shigeta_ (n=shigeta@124.32.114.226) Quit ("Leaving...")
  59. [12:27:36] * quirim (i=potato@dsl-242-15-60.telkomadsl.co.za) Quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
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  103. [12:55:30] * ertai (n=ertai@ns.feydakins.org) has joined #openid
  104. [12:55:30] * VxJasonxV (n=jason@69.16.139.205) has joined #openid
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  120. [12:56:08] <jibot> VxJasonxV is just another OpenID fan. Though he understands Yadis and follows it's progression.
  121. [12:56:08] <jibot> danbri is that foaf guy from http://danbri.org/
  122. [12:56:12] * jb (n=jrb@72-45-43-221-dhcp.aoo.pa.atlanticbb.net) has joined #openid
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  137. [12:56:20] * trel1023 (n=trel1023@cpe-071-065-202-118.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #openid
  138. [12:56:20] * Makenshi (n=makenshi@makenshi.at.furry.be) has joined #openid
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  146. [12:56:32] <jibot> trel1023 is Terrell Russell of http://claimID.com and http://weblog.terrellrussell.com
  147. [12:56:34] <jibot> GabeW is in the Bay Area
  148. [13:01:28] <danbri> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/shanerichmond/jan08/telegraph_to_become_openid_provider.htm
  149. [13:01:31] <danbri> :)
  150. [13:01:56] <Makenshi> Great, yet another provider, just what everyone needs
  151. [13:02:05] <Makenshi> Not sure whether to be happy or not
  152. [13:03:16] <danbri> be happy
  153. [13:03:20] <danbri> this is a good thing
  154. [13:03:32] <Makenshi> According to them you can log into Digg and AOL.. didn't know that
  155. [13:03:50] <Makenshi> I mean, with an OpenID
  156. [13:04:08] <danbri> providers give basis for exposing info that those sites have about a person, eg. number of comments that other known humans have positively rated
  157. [13:04:22] <danbri> so will help us build a spam-filtering, comment ranking network
  158. [13:04:23] <Makenshi> Of all the people to trust with my SSO login, a media outlet doesn't rate too highly on my list
  159. [13:04:36] <Makenshi> You can still do that when they are an RP surely
  160. [13:04:49] <Makenshi> Ahh do you work for the Telegraph, then?
  161. [13:05:22] <danbri> I'm a lifelong grauniad reader! I wouldn't paper a cat tray with that tory nonsense ;)
  162. [13:05:44] <danbri> but I'm happy to see 'em using open standards
  163. [13:05:47] <Makenshi> Ahh they snuck it in quietly.. "we will not only accept OpenIDs but also provide them"
  164. [13:06:27] <Makenshi> I switch between the Guardian and the Independent depending on availibility and the front cover
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  302. [18:29:08] <donomo> when Digg gets openid logins, that'll be a big deal.
  303. [18:29:13] <donomo> it hasn't happened yet, afaik
  304. [18:35:34] <donomo> [,gl 6
  305. [19:17:05] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@cs181170022.pp.htv.fi) has joined #openid
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  312. [20:07:20] <GabeW> ?heraldme
  313. [20:07:21] <jibot> Now heralding your full definition
  314. [20:08:01] * PibbRelay (n=supybot@nat/janrain/x-bee91516a2080fba) Quit (SendQ exceeded)
  315. [20:17:50] * PibbRelay (n=supybot@nat/janrain/x-32b81f9b8665c1af) has joined #openid
  316. [20:21:25] <PibbRelay> <commented.org> nope, it's down again, ah well
  317. [20:23:03] * a9913 (n=a9913@unaffiliated/a9913) has joined #openid
  318. [20:25:39] * p33r_ (n=espen@43.80-203-79.nextgentel.com) has joined #openid
  319. [20:29:01] * amir (n=Miranda@gentoo/developer/amir) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  320. [20:31:31] <kyevan> So. Do y'all agree that anyone who impliments a provider as part of a larger something without also implimenting a consumer needs to be set on fire?
  321. [20:31:53] <kyevan> (Not in a literal sense, of course. That would be mean. And illegal.)
  322. [20:32:54] <Makenshi> I think it is quite antisocial to do that.
  323. [20:33:19] <kyevan> Makenshi: Which is antisocial, the problem, or my solution? :P
  324. [20:34:09] * amir (n=Miranda@gentoo/developer/amir) has joined #openid
  325. [20:34:38] <Makenshi> Ah, the problem :p
  326. [20:37:32] * pvandewyngaerde (n=pvandewy@150.77-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) has joined #openid
  327. [20:42:09] * amir (n=Miranda@gentoo/developer/amir) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  328. [20:45:30] <danbri> it's not antisocial at all, so long as the provider is providing the Web some more info about the openid-holders
  329. [20:45:49] <kyevan> danbri: It defeats the purpose of openid though.
  330. [20:45:59] * amir (n=Miranda@gentoo/developer/amir) has joined #openid
  331. [20:46:01] <danbri> especially if they validate, check, aggregate/compute etc
  332. [20:46:07] <danbri> there are lots of ways to add value
  333. [20:46:08] <kyevan> If everyone provides them, but doesn't run consumers... >_>
  334. [20:46:28] <kyevan> danbri: Right, if the point is the identity, that's fine.
  335. [20:46:43] <danbri> people do what they find value in doing; there's no point in beating up on people who are nevertheless contributing to a more connected, semantic-in-some-sense, Web
  336. [20:46:44] <kyevan> I'm talking about things like Wordpress.com and Yahoo.
  337. [20:46:55] <danbri> users will start to demand it
  338. [20:46:57] <kyevan> danbri: But they're NOT.
  339. [20:47:00] <danbri> lawyers will start to ponder it
  340. [20:47:19] <kyevan> Their contributing to a more controled-by-them web.
  341. [20:47:38] <p33r_> i'm more worried about the lack of a decent php openid-provider implementation
  342. [20:48:11] <p33r_> moreso than the consumers, they will pop up
  343. [20:48:41] <danbri> i'll have various openids, i hope to mostly be able to use danbri.org but if authenticating as danbri.example.com lets me take advantage of things example.com know about me, i win.
  344. [20:48:48] <kyevan> Take Yahoo, for example.
  345. [20:49:04] <kyevan> Why can't I log in to flickr using my openid?
  346. [20:49:12] <danbri> if example.com want me to use their openid as my main one, they'll have to add a ton of cool services, plus some decent privacy assurances
  347. [20:49:32] <danbri> if they start tracking my behaviour and selling adverts, while not giving me much in return, i'll go elsewhere
  348. [20:49:36] <kyevan> If only one or two idiots did it, it would be fine.
  349. [20:49:57] <kyevan> But, AOL is doing it(I think), Yahoo is doing it, Wordpress is doing it...
  350. [20:49:58] <danbri> and so, having a lot of elsewheres to go is I think critical to giving users leverage to say, "hey, your provider services are kinda shoddy!"
  351. [20:50:14] <kyevan> The provider services may be fine.
  352. [20:50:30] <kyevan> but why can't I log in to the services that are obvious choices for consumers!?
  353. [20:51:06] <danbri> because it's only 2008? ;)
  354. [20:51:12] <p33r_> i'm pretty sure the openid logins will pop up slowly but surely
  355. [20:51:39] <danbri> I tried to make an openid-only little site the other day, but got stuck at the first task: math libraries for the php openid on a fresh redhat box, totally confusing and depressing experience
  356. [20:51:57] <kyevan> That's PHP's fault, though, not openid's >_>
  357. [20:52:31] <danbri> making the tools easier and more polished and "hey, you just do *this*" ... probably better than complaining. For cautious companies, even being a provider is a risky new business...
  358. [20:52:35] <kyevan> in fact, you can strip out math libraries for the, and "openid on a fresh redhat box"
  359. [20:53:08] <kyevan> PHP in generial is a confusing and depressing experience :P
  360. [20:53:23] <p33r_> i'm having enougf trouble providing OpenID identities for my users *sighs* the amount of openID servers in php can be counted on a single hand and arent exactly up to par :P
  361. [20:53:27] <danbri> "CEO: what, you mean our users can show up leaving comments with username.mybrand.example.com in random 3rd party sites? and we're supposed to be happy about this?!"
  362. [20:53:39] <p33r_> there is quite a while for OpenID to go i guess
  363. [20:53:59] <danbri> it's still moving astonishingly fast, for a standard in this space
  364. [20:54:04] <p33r_> thats true
  365. [20:54:15] <_keturn> danbri: "well, yeah, free advertising." "CEO: Woohoo!"
  366. [20:54:54] <danbri> "CEO: on porn and hate sites too? what if terrorists use it? will I go to guantanamo? I don't look good in orange!"
  367. [20:54:55] <p33r_> i'm gonna try with the JanRain server implementation, any tips or suggestions i should know about?
  368. [20:56:06] * PibbRelay (n=supybot@nat/janrain/x-32b81f9b8665c1af) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  369. [20:56:17] <kyevan> danbri: "Sir, what do we hire that huge team of lawyers for? Have them wrap us behind a 'we're not responsible for our users' blanket, like you already do on our own website."
  370. [20:56:37] <p33r_> danbri: that wouldnt be much diffrent from using yahoo.com mails as it is right now
  371. [20:56:52] <kyevan> (and anyway, why would a porn site accept openid? Hard to extract payment that way >_>)
  372. [20:57:10] <danbri> true, but some openid providers aren't email providers, so they're in new territory
  373. [20:57:28] <danbri> ok back re php...
  374. [20:57:35] * PibbRelay (n=supybot@nat/janrain/x-0437663fc01f01e1) has joined #openid
  375. [20:57:37] <danbri> when i go to try openid php, i always end up here: http://openidenabled.com/php-openid/
  376. [20:57:50] <danbri> is that the place to be, or i'm missing out on something else worth a go?
  377. [20:58:17] <kyevan> Yeh, package management. Go try perl's cpan or ruby's gems >_>
  378. [20:58:45] * kyevan has had bad experences with php, can you tell?
  379. [20:59:11] <donomo> can you dump php for something else?
  380. [20:59:25] <_keturn> p33r_: but, to take kyevan's line of argument, why do you think you need to provide your users with OpenIDs? Do you users not have accounts with AOL or Yahoo or Flickr or LiveJournal? Are you going to provide a more secure login experience than myOpenID, Vidoop, or Verisign?
  381. [20:59:53] <p33r_> keturn: streamlined norwegian login that supports norways strict privacy laws
  382. [20:59:53] <p33r_> so yeah
  383. [21:00:24] <p33r_> keturn: besides, more choice is important, so you dont end up with a market with 1-2 openid providers
  384. [21:00:27] <_keturn> ok, that's a decent reason. All those companies are US-based and our privacy laws suck. ;)
  385. [21:00:41] * peace-keeper (n=peace-ke@c-24-91-177-185.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #openid
  386. [21:00:58] <danbri> re "why", I think exposing extra info that will help your users distinguish themselves from spammers, or show their qualifications, is one scenario. Eg. adovogato might offer openid, so I could prove to other sites that I'm the person they describe in http://www.advogato.org/person/danbri/foaf.rdf
  387. [21:00:58] <p33r_> _keturn: besides, allowing admins to quickly enable their existing user bases would be a huge boom for OpenID
  388. [21:01:09] <danbri> ...and that could be a one-time interaction
  389. [21:01:19] <p33r_> _keturn: more users means more preasure for more logins
  390. [21:01:44] <danbri> eg. slashdot could let users bind their slashdot account to advogato, and after that, allow other slashdot users to include advogato karma in their filtering options
  391. [21:01:54] <p33r_> it's simply a good thing for OpenID as a whole, but as far as i can see most people working on the OpenID-spec allso happen to be the biggest provider of OpenID services. so the incetive to share code isnt really there
  392. [21:02:10] * Roebot (n=Roebot@wsip-68-15-8-102.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #openid
  393. [21:02:11] <Makenshi> On another note, I was trying to set up mod_auth_openid but I couldn't do it on centos (rhel clone) due to dependency hell
  394. [21:02:14] <kyevan> I'd rather see a practical way to tie multiple identities together, honestly.
  395. [21:02:29] <kyevan> Right now I have... at least thirty million openids
  396. [21:02:35] <danbri> what i'm suggesting is a way to tie multiple identities together
  397. [21:02:38] <Makenshi> I gave up at pcre++ because it needed so many other libraries
  398. [21:02:39] <kyevan> Most of which I registered for before the thing existed :P
  399. [21:02:54] <danbri> and since its a one time effort to associate them, not a daily-effort on each signin, i'm cool with that
  400. [21:03:02] <p33r_> _keturn: and to be honest, no, some of my users might have livejournal but in norway MSN is the standar for communication and hotmail for mail :P
  401. [21:03:08] <danbri> much like clicking on a link emailed you, to prove you have access to some mail account
  402. [21:03:24] <Makenshi> Livejournal is a very poor openid consumer.. fine as provider
  403. [21:03:44] <donomo> i'd say its a poor provider too.
  404. [21:03:54] <donomo> no profile support
  405. [21:04:00] <Makenshi> Some people seem to think that openid users should be treated differently to regular users
  406. [21:04:00] <danbri> i'd like to see a list of all the sites i've openid-authenticated with using danbri.livejournal.com
  407. [21:04:18] <kyevan> danbri: I think it supports that, actually.
  408. [21:04:29] <danbri> cool
  409. [21:04:50] <kyevan> but I haven't been over there for more than a couple seconds in... about a year :P
  410. [21:04:54] <danbri> can i get a total log of my openid actions too? in case my password's been nicked etc
  411. [21:05:39] <_keturn> danbri: I work on OpenID Enabled, so I might be biased, but I think that's the place to be. The most legitimate complaint I've heard about our PHP implementation is that we insist on supporting PHP 4.3, which some of the alternatives aren't burdened with.
  412. [21:05:51] <Makenshi> Oh yeah, i need to poke people to ask paypal to provide rsa tokens outside NA
  413. [21:07:19] <danbri> "OpenID authentication failed: Bad signature" :(
  414. [21:07:38] <kyevan> Why are you bothering to support php at all?
  415. [21:07:45] <danbri> i read that's often a badly compiled or linked GMP library
  416. [21:08:07] <danbri> (because godzillions of websites are built in it i guess?)
  417. [21:08:29] <kyevan> It's a hidious monster with about as much sanity as you would have after looking upon Cthulhu and Friends.
  418. [21:09:24] <_keturn> kyevan: what danbri said
  419. [21:09:58] <danbri> "bad signature"? ;)
  420. [21:10:50] <_keturn> no, godzillions of websites. there are a zillion PHP websites for every Ruby website out there, and there are a thousand Ruby websites out there for every Python web site, so...
  421. [21:11:02] <donomo> Makenshi: outside NA?
  422. [21:11:55] <danbri> wow, ruby really did get big...
  423. [21:11:57] <Makenshi> donomo: yes, they only supply them to the USA and Canada
  424. [21:12:08] * shigeta (n=shigeta@70.36.100.220.dy.bbexcite.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
  425. [21:12:09] <Makenshi> We cannot get them in Europe
  426. [21:12:19] <Makenshi> I actually have 2 RSA keys of my own but I don't think they would support those
  427. [21:12:34] <kyevan> _keturn: And there's still millions of sites largely in perl :P
  428. [21:12:48] <donomo> Makenshi: oh, North America. yeah its a neat toy to have.
  429. [21:13:35] <_keturn> yeah :-/
  430. [21:13:42] <_keturn> we tried writing Perl for a while
  431. [21:13:53] <_keturn> then we decided to pass that buck to Sxip
  432. [21:17:39] <danbri> _keturn, is http://trac.openidenabled.com/trac/newticket the place to report problems with that php?
  433. [21:18:08] <_keturn> danbri: yep
  434. [21:19:23] <danbri> thx
  435. [21:28:02] * KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@c-98-207-134-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #openid
  436. [21:28:30] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@cs181170022.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
  437. [21:30:36] <danbri> done - http://trac.openidenabled.com/trac/ticket/108
  438. [21:30:56] <danbri> _keturn, if i can provide any more useful info / debugging, welcome to ping me here
  439. [21:32:32] * kyevan (n=kyevan@li2-41.members.linode.com) has left #openid
  440. [21:35:11] <_keturn> danbri: hmm, I got a different error
  441. [21:35:24] <_keturn> stupid extra :80
  442. [21:35:28] <danbri> with LJ ids? or another?
  443. [21:35:32] <_keturn> LJ
  444. [21:35:51] <danbri> bummer
  445. [21:36:35] <niekie> _keturn: how come one can't select what (optional) SREG data one wants to be sent in MyOpenID anymore?
  446. [21:36:46] <niekie> I thought that was once possible.
  447. [21:36:56] <danbri> I wanted to make a communal hosted version of the DadaEngine (http://dev.null.org/dadaengine/) so non-geeks could host things like http://www.infotech.monash.edu.au/resources/ ... seems a nice cute app for openid logins
  448. [21:37:49] <danbri> oops 2nd link is goofed, ... meant to be: http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/
  449. [21:40:17] <_keturn> niekie: you can select which persona to send back
  450. [21:55:54] * SamRose (n=chatzill@c-71-197-25-225.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]")
  451. [21:57:37] * uzxd (n=user@c-76-18-200-33.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has joined #openid
  452. [21:57:47] * uzxd is now known as darrenb
  453. [21:57:51] * darrenb is now known as dbounds
  454. [21:57:56] <dbounds> hi.
  455. [21:59:00] * a9913 (n=a9913@unaffiliated/a9913) Quit ("Leaving")
  456. [22:00:13] * pvandewyngaerde (n=pvandewy@150.77-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  460. [22:29:59] * PibbRelay (n=supybot@nat/janrain/x-f7bb1c649d83b028) has joined #openid
  461. [22:30:56] * amir (n=Miranda@gentoo/developer/amir) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  464. [22:50:24] * PibbRelay (n=supybot@nat/janrain/x-2ae789f3bedfe10a) has joined #openid
  465. [22:50:29] <dbounds> <img>
  466. [22:52:18] * Cody`macbook (n=Cody@74-129-166-74.dhcp.insightbb.com) has joined #openid
  467. [22:53:36] * NASA (n=nasa@78-62-27-29.ip.zebra.lt) has joined #openid
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  470. [23:03:52] * _keturn (n=acapnoti@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/keturn) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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  475. [23:23:37] * illustir (n=alper@s55912056.adsl.wanadoo.nl) Quit ()
  476. [23:33:28] * NASA (n=nasa@78-62-27-29.ip.zebra.lt) Quit ("Ate")

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