IRC Log for #openid on 2008-02-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  7. [01:02:41] <pkulak> Thanks for your help, _keturn. Looks like it was an older gem getting loaded for some reason that I didn't realize was on the system. Arg.
  8. [01:26:59] <GabeW> heh
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  42. [12:41:19] <killes> is there anybody who can point me to some URL that has a summary of what OpenID can currently do WRT sharing of profiles?
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  54. [13:00:40] <polyonymous> is there any information anywhere on what should OP do to support seatbelt?
  55. [13:09:13] * bortzmeyer (i=bortzmey@batilda.nic.fr) has joined #openid
  56. [13:15:26] <PibbRelay> <samsm> The Rails core's openid plugin is presently tied to the 1.1.4 openid gem until they figure out what patch to use.
  57. [13:15:48] <PibbRelay> <samsm> I would guess that to be the cause of the older gem problem above.
  58. [13:16:15] <PibbRelay> <samsm> Waaaay above. Yesterday. 10 p.m.
  59. [13:19:40] <PibbRelay> <samsm> killes: What's WRT? Google's best guess is some router firmware thing.
  60. [13:19:41] <PibbRelay> <hacker.klever.net> is there any information anywhere on what should OP do to support seatbelt?
  61. [13:20:33] <PibbRelay> <hacker.klever.net> samsm: WRT == with regard to
  62. [13:20:50] * TedThibodeauJr (n=Thud@c-76-119-195-179.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit ()
  63. [13:20:55] <PibbRelay> <samsm> ahhhh
  64. [13:21:29] <killes> PibbRelay: "with regard to"
  65. [13:21:30] <PibbRelay> killes: Error: "with regard to" is not a valid command.
  66. [13:21:59] <killes> eh
  67. [13:22:13] <polyonymous> ;-) But he's got your message
  68. [13:22:30] <killes> what is this relay thingie?
  69. [13:22:49] <polyonymous> relays messages to pibb.com OpenID channel
  70. [13:22:49] <PibbRelay> <samsm> I had to look up this one too: https://pip.verisignlabs.com/seatbelt.do
  71. [13:23:00] <PibbRelay> <samsm> https://pibb.com/go/openid
  72. [13:23:42] <PibbRelay> <hacker.klever.net> samsm - and did you find anything? ;-) I mean what op is supposed to do. Like this seatbelt.config xml, etc.
  73. [13:24:25] <PibbRelay> <samsm> No, no, that's just a reminder of what seatbelt is in this context. :)
  74. [13:24:31] * jcollie (n=jcollie@dsl-ppp239.isunet.net) Quit ("Ex-Chat")
  75. [13:25:00] <PibbRelay> <hacker.klever.net> Ah, yes, I don't drive and rarely leave my den at all ;-)
  76. [13:25:32] <PibbRelay> <hacker.klever.net> I'll try OpenID dev...
  77. [13:26:42] <PibbRelay> <samsm> I bet someone will respond eventually. Seattle should be awake in 2 hours or so.
  78. [13:27:14] <PibbRelay> <hacker.klever.net> heh, we'll see.
  79. [13:27:36] <PibbRelay> <hacker.klever.net> by that time I may get all the info out of firefox extension source, though ;-)
  80. [13:32:41] <PibbRelay> <samsm> The race is on.
  81. [13:33:14] <PibbRelay> <hacker.klever.net> well, if it's really 2 hours Seattle has no chance ;-)
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  92. [15:09:26] <PibbRelay> <hacker.klever.net> digged, implemented and even spent some time with my daughter in the meanwhile ;-)
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  102. [16:55:37] <jibot> miyagawa is Tatsuhiko Miyagawa, the author of Plagger <http://plagger.org> and works on Vox <http://www.vox.com> in Six Apart.
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  105. [18:43:31] <hogejo> hello guys! I want to ask some info about OpenID, from the developer side.
  106. [18:43:57] * danieljohnlewis (n=danieljo@cpc5-oxfd2-0-0-cust8.oxfd.cable.ntl.com) Quit ()
  107. [18:44:09] <hogejo> I am developing, and already finished with the basic services of an ID provider site.
  108. [18:44:24] <polyonymous> that's good ;)
  109. [18:45:18] <hogejo> I want to have such functions, that the OpenID describes... now the question is. Wether become a site that exactly supports (and thus became an provider) OpenID, or develop these functions in my way?
  110. [18:45:45] <polyonymous> hogejo, umm?
  111. [18:46:16] <polyonymous> I thought you were developing an OP?
  112. [18:46:33] <hogejo> No, I developed a site, that stores your Identity
  113. [18:46:51] <hogejo> it is like an online name card... with extra functions
  114. [18:47:08] <polyonymous> what is there to develop and what does it have to do with an openid?
  115. [18:48:33] <hogejo> I got an idea to create a site, that stores your ID + password, and all other sites rely on this, and then you only need one ID + pass, on my site, and you can use it everywhere... than I found OpenID, and saw, that this came to someone else's mind earlyer :P
  116. [18:48:53] <polyonymous> ah
  117. [18:49:05] <polyonymous> It's come to a number of minds earlier ;-)
  118. [18:49:12] <hogejo> yeah I know :)
  119. [18:49:25] <polyonymous> Well, if you want other sites to support your identity, you sure want to implement openid.
  120. [18:49:48] <hogejo> yeah... is it a big trouble? :S
  121. [18:50:07] <polyonymous> Well, there's a lot of libraries. What do you develop your site in?
  122. [18:50:13] <hogejo> PHP
  123. [18:50:29] <polyonymous> try openidenabled, I think this is where openid php libraries live.
  124. [18:50:50] <polyonymous> http://openidenabled.com/php-openid/
  125. [18:51:09] <hogejo> yeah I found that... but It was a big bunch of code for me... and I think I have to completely rewrite my site :s
  126. [18:51:33] <hogejo> an I am sceptic with 3rd party libraries :P
  127. [18:51:37] <polyonymous> if you have to completely rewrite your site, it's a sign of poor design on your part :)
  128. [18:51:50] <polyonymous> sure, develop your own then ;-)
  129. [18:52:16] <hogejo> not that way... It is like a big buch of rules, and I have to be strict to the
  130. [18:52:16] <hogejo> m
  131. [18:52:23] <polyonymous> I did so, because I do stuff in c++, you have nothing to justify your development, but you can do that without a justification :)
  132. [18:52:41] <polyonymous> Yes, the specs are elaborate and you need to follow them.
  133. [18:52:52] <hogejo> are there any limits?
  134. [18:52:59] <polyonymous> limits to what?
  135. [18:53:07] <hogejo> and there are lots of things that I do not know how they work.
  136. [18:53:17] <hogejo> If you have time, I can ask you a bunch of questions :D
  137. [18:53:29] <polyonymous> either learn or use libraries you're sceptic with :)
  138. [18:53:55] <polyonymous> Well, you can try. I suppose I'm not the only one here in case I'll step away.
  139. [18:54:13] <_keturn> ("skeptical of", not "sceptic with", I think.)
  140. [18:54:43] <hogejo> _keturn: ok :) will remember (or at least will try)
  141. [18:55:08] <polyonymous> _keturn, thought so, but as I'm not a native speaker, I thought I'd rather not correct if my correction may be wrong as well :)
  142. [18:55:17] <hogejo> so I have two big ones: How does the authentication work ( I think I can read that from the Specs), and why is it decentralized?
  143. [18:55:33] <hogejo> nether am I a native one :)
  144. [18:55:34] <polyonymous> to be true, I also wasn't sure whether to chose 'of' or 'about' :)
  145. [18:55:57] <polyonymous> hogejo, do you want to dump the whole specs here? :)
  146. [18:56:10] <hogejo> dump?
  147. [18:56:14] <polyonymous> paste
  148. [18:56:18] <hogejo> no. :D
  149. [18:56:30] <polyonymous> This is somewhat too general a question.
  150. [18:56:57] <hogejo> I still do not understand... If you have an OpenID, your OP provider stores your data, right?
  151. [18:57:10] <polyonymous> your data being.. ?
  152. [18:57:19] <hogejo> everything, including your ID + pass
  153. [18:57:42] <polyonymous> well, OP stores the id+password for this particular op, not for other sites.
  154. [18:57:59] <polyonymous> of course every site you log in with id/password stores this combination.
  155. [18:59:15] <hogejo> can we use a simple example? I have my openid at URL. And I gave my NAME to the provider.
  156. [18:59:15] <hogejo> It stores it, and If I log into the OTHER site, that site will get the info from my OP, right?
  157. [19:00:46] <polyonymous> the other site (replaying party - RP) gets from OP the information whether you're the owner of this particular identity url. That's the core of OpenID. It MAY also ask for your nickname/name/etc via extension if you don't mind.
  158. [19:01:40] <polyonymous> hogejo, maybe you should (1) get yourself an openid identity with some OP (like myopenid.com, claimid.com, etc.) and try to log into different RPs?
  159. [19:02:28] <hogejo> and then I will know how they do authentication, and stuff?
  160. [19:02:43] <polyonymous> hogejo, at least you will get the picture of WHAT is OpenID.
  161. [19:03:21] <hogejo> yeah... okay. "I should not be a noob in the topic If I want to be a provider :P "
  162. [19:03:32] <polyonymous> that too.
  163. [19:03:38] <hogejo> I just hate registering , that's why I have my site.. :)
  164. [19:03:49] <polyonymous> That's what OpenID is partially for.
  165. [19:04:30] <hogejo> anyway, can I ask that where is you information connected to your ID is stored?
  166. [19:04:43] <polyonymous> openid.net ?
  167. [19:05:02] <polyonymous> oops
  168. [19:05:05] <polyonymous> to YOUR id.
  169. [19:05:12] <polyonymous> I thought openid in general.
  170. [19:05:43] <polyonymous> What is the information connected to your ID? like you local auth info and persona details (if any) ?
  171. [19:06:28] <hogejo> yes
  172. [19:06:35] <polyonymous> on your OP
  173. [19:08:11] <hogejo> than it is centralized in a way?
  174. [19:08:27] <polyonymous> it would be centralized if there was a single centralized OP
  175. [19:08:44] <hogejo> okay. I got it :) I forgot that :)
  176. [19:08:46] <polyonymous> I, for instance, run my own.
  177. [19:08:55] <polyonymous> and I thought that's also your goal :)
  178. [19:09:15] <hogejo> run my own, and run other's
  179. [19:09:22] <polyonymous> run other's?
  180. [19:09:29] <polyonymous> ah, like friends, etc?
  181. [19:09:47] <hogejo> like everyone. I want to be a site like myOpenID.com
  182. [19:10:02] <polyonymous> ah, you want to compete with myopenid.com, yahoo and google? ;-)
  183. [19:10:25] <hogejo> of course.
  184. [19:10:32] <polyonymous> good plan ;-)
  185. [19:10:49] <polyonymous> Well, you definitely have to learn more about OpenID then :)
  186. [19:11:10] <hogejo> the basci problem, that in Hungary, among the Hungarian sites, there is NO (as far as I know) that has "something similar" to OpenID, except my site...
  187. [19:11:22] <hogejo> but I have only 4 members since the launch...
  188. [19:11:39] <hogejo> but that's not the problem :P
  189. [19:12:13] <polyonymous> uhmm.. Internet is worldwide...
  190. [19:12:26] <hogejo> yeah, so member count is not a problem
  191. [19:12:30] <polyonymous> But running a hungarian service of a kind doesn't sound like a bad idea to me.
  192. [19:12:45] <hogejo> my problem is to deceide whether to support OpenID, or develeop my own "protocolls"
  193. [19:13:05] <polyonymous> no one will support your own protcols.
  194. [19:13:06] <hogejo> I guess I would attract more people with an OpenID provider...
  195. [19:13:12] <hogejo> yeah...
  196. [19:13:23] <polyonymous> so, one question less ;-)
  197. [19:13:32] <hogejo> bad news :P I have to read those long white papers
  198. [19:13:48] <polyonymous> it's better than writing them, isn't it?
  199. [19:14:04] <hogejo> whooo... dont even tell me :D I have documentation :D
  200. [19:14:12] <hogejo> *hate
  201. [19:14:21] <polyonymous> so, you better read it ;-)
  202. [19:14:26] <hogejo> yeah...
  203. [19:15:04] * ianloic (i=yakk@glub.dreamhostps.com) has joined #openid
  204. [19:15:31] <hogejo> but getting back to my fears, and stuff... despite the methods that used in the communication between RPs and OPs, are there any other rules regarding the password encryption, data storage?
  205. [19:15:49] <hogejo> I saw that it is entirely HTTP(S), and that is really a GOOOOD thing :)
  206. [19:16:15] <polyonymous> on the OP side? theoretically, no. But I suggest that you don't publish your users passwords on the front page.
  207. [19:18:09] <hogejo> :D
  208. [19:18:25] <hogejo> damn... I will start with clearing those :P
  209. [19:19:28] <hogejo> wha is the point, in multiple personas?
  210. [19:20:42] <polyonymous> when authenticating against OP, RP may ask for the data you may want to use, like name, nickname, timezone, etc. You may choose not to answer, RP is likely to ask you, anyway, or may chose from different "personas". Like use this email address for this site and that for that.
  211. [19:22:21] <hogejo> e-mail is ok. but as I see on myOpenID.com, every persona has its own other informations
  212. [19:22:50] <polyonymous> non-mandatory.
  213. [19:23:21] <hogejo> yeah but than I will have a bunch of "ghost" personas
  214. [19:23:36] <polyonymous> well, you don't have to use it at all
  215. [19:23:49] <hogejo> okay. this is one of the differences It has with my ideas.
  216. [19:23:50] <polyonymous> and you can implement it some other way on your site.
  217. [19:24:09] <hogejo> I though you have your one and only profile,
  218. [19:24:23] <polyonymous> you don't have to have many personas.
  219. [19:24:28] <polyonymous> you can have one.
  220. [19:24:47] <hogejo> but when authenticating and giving data to the sites you can choose: give, not to give, and give custom
  221. [19:25:09] <polyonymous> some OPs do it this way, I think.
  222. [19:25:18] <polyonymous> some don't do it at all ;-)
  223. [19:25:21] <hogejo> good news.
  224. [19:25:35] <hogejo> one other difference. custom attributes.
  225. [19:25:53] <polyonymous> that would go beyond sreg extension right into attribute exchange.
  226. [19:28:20] <hogejo> hmmm I think the only strict rule is that all attributes that match, should be represented AS-IS, like e-mail should be "e-mail" and so on. I can not use "villanyposta cím" or other...
  227. [19:28:56] <polyonymous> attributes are identified by URIs. Do read attribute exchange specs.
  228. [19:32:46] <hogejo> I will buy a "native English speaker" skill tomorrow...
  229. [19:33:06] <polyonymous> I hope your skill selling site supports OpenID :)
  230. [19:34:00] <hogejo> and I have to buy an "OpenID fan" too :D
  231. [19:34:30] <polyonymous> I know it's hard to accept any technology when you started development your own way. But sometimes it makes sense.
  232. [19:35:06] <hogejo> it definately makes sense... it upgrades my site with a big rocket on its bottom....
  233. [19:36:12] <polyonymous> you're almost a native speaker now. You can hardly see non-native speaker spelling it as "definately" ;-)
  234. [19:36:39] <polyonymous> nonetheless, it's not spelled like that ;-)
  235. [19:37:03] <hogejo> I think I should start reading through these docs, and read codes when I feel better... I have big pain in my back due to this flue thing I think... but it is better when I sit... so I browse the internet :) If I do not have this pain... I do not find OpenID :P
  236. [19:37:08] <hogejo> how to spell it then? :D
  237. [19:37:32] <polyonymous> definitely?
  238. [19:38:18] <polyonymous> heh, no pain no gain :)
  239. [19:38:21] <hogejo> I will check :D I am suspicious with it :D
  240. [19:38:40] <hogejo> geeeeeeees
  241. [19:38:46] <polyonymous> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/definitely
  242. [19:38:48] <hogejo> D-E-F-I-N-I-T-E-L-Y
  243. [19:38:48] <hogejo> How to spell definitely. ... The correct spelling is definitely. Not definately. Not definatly. Not definantly. Not definetly. Not definently. ...
  244. [19:38:48] <hogejo> www.d-e-f-i-n-i-t-e-l-y.com/
  245. [19:39:02] <polyonymous> ;-))))))))))))))
  246. [19:39:09] <hogejo> mine is better I guess :P
  247. [19:39:33] <polyonymous> yeah, I told you a lot of native speakers do it :)
  248. [19:39:39] <polyonymous> native spellers :)
  249. [19:39:44] <hogejo> now I also want to know how to spell it :D
  250. [19:40:03] <hogejo> It was about a year after I could buy my own domain with hosting ....
  251. [19:40:14] <hogejo> and people just create such sites :D
  252. [19:40:26] <polyonymous> heh
  253. [19:40:51] <polyonymous> I think they make a big bucks of it.
  254. [19:41:48] <hogejo> how come that I do not make money with my sites? :D
  255. [19:41:48] <hogejo> ok. I'll try to make it to the kitchen... see you later (I hope so :P)
  256. [19:41:48] <hogejo> polyonymous, I will definitely chat with you about this topic, be aware :P | bye
  257. [19:41:59] <polyonymous> ciao
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