IRC Log for #openid on 2008-02-27

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  51. [11:01:56] * salty-horse (n=ori@pdpc/supporter/active/salty-horse) has joined #openid
  52. [11:02:13] <salty-horse> hi. any python-openid developer around?
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  62. [14:40:59] <johill> can anybody remind me of an openid test service?
  63. [14:40:59] * Plouj (n=Plouj@red.cs.yorku.ca) has left #openid
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  68. [15:28:16] <polyonymous> johill, 2.0?
  69. [15:47:10] * a9913 (n=a9913@unaffiliated/a9913) Quit ("Leaving")
  70. [15:55:59] <johill> polyonymous: preferably
  71. [15:56:27] <polyonymous> johill, no idea. I only know http://openidenabled.com/resources/openid-test/diagnose-server - which is 1.0 iirc.
  72. [15:56:56] <polyonymous> uhmm.. that is, if you want to test OP
  73. [15:58:54] <johill> ok, thanks
  74. [16:01:24] <keturn> johill: the only thing I know of for 2.0 is http://code.google.com/p/openid-test/ , and I'm not sure if that's a thing that works yet
  75. [16:01:54] <johill> ok. doesn't really matter I guess since I just use pyopenid :)
  76. [16:02:04] <johill> keturn: just committed the provider code to MoinMoin 1.7
  77. [16:02:12] <polyonymous> Back when I looked at it, I didn't really figure out how to approach the thing :)
  78. [16:03:08] <keturn> polyonymous: yeah, I had that problem too. maybe if I sit down and work through the TestSpec on the wiki there it might start to make sense.
  79. [16:03:32] <johill> heh
  80. [16:03:37] <johill> I'm not motivated enough for that right now
  81. [16:03:46] <polyonymous> keturn, that's true. It's just that I believe both of us lack motivation ;)
  82. [16:03:53] <polyonymous> ah, that makes three of us.
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  99. [21:57:36] * chuck (i=charlie@wikimedia/cmelbye) has joined #openid
  100. [21:57:46] <chuck> hi, why do i get this error:
  101. [21:57:53] <chuck> Fatal error: Failed to initialize OpenID file store in /tmp/_php_consumer_test in /usr/share/php/Auth/OpenID/FileStore.php on line 73
  102. [21:58:41] * TedThibodeauJr (n=Thud@ws2.openlinksw.com) Quit ()
  103. [22:01:32] * acemtp (n=Miranda@log78-1-82-242-47-3.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #openid
  104. [22:01:37] <acemtp> hi openiders
  105. [22:03:00] <CGamesPlay> anyone have any word on http://trac.openidenabled.com/trac/ticket/130 ?
  106. [22:03:45] <chuck> anyone know my error?
  107. [22:04:05] <CGamesPlay> chuck: couldn't create /tmp/_php_consumer_test
  108. [22:04:17] <acemtp> is it possible to translate myopenid. the french translation is an horror
  109. [22:04:44] <CGamesPlay> acemtp: you mean myopenid.com?
  110. [22:04:50] <acemtp> correct
  111. [22:05:06] <CGamesPlay> k. not in ym control, just curious :)
  112. [22:05:08] <CGamesPlay> my*
  113. [22:05:09] <acemtp> i imagine it s not the good channel
  114. [22:05:21] <acemtp> it s seems the be an openid general chat
  115. [22:05:37] <CGamesPlay> you may want to email JanRain
  116. [22:06:30] <CGamesPlay> https://www.myopenid.com/feedback
  117. [22:06:30] <acemtp> just wonder, which provider do you use?
  118. [22:06:47] <CGamesPlay> myopenid
  119. [22:07:22] <chuck> CGamesPlay: i'm aware, what can i do to fix the error though is what i meant
  120. [22:07:34] <CGamesPlay> chuck: delete /tmp/_php_consumer_test...
  121. [22:07:57] <chuck> hmm wtf
  122. [22:07:58] <CGamesPlay> ensure safe_mode is off
  123. [22:08:08] <CGamesPlay> or... that /tmp has the correct perms
  124. [22:08:11] <chuck> i get a permission denied when i do touch /tmp/_php_consumer_test
  125. [22:08:16] <chuck> but i can ls /tmp and stuff
  126. [22:08:18] <CGamesPlay> probably because you don't own i
  127. [22:08:30] <CGamesPlay> ls -ld /tmp/_php_consumer*
  128. [22:09:03] <chuck> oh i see, i already tested the script as a different user and i was looking for a file in /tmp
  129. [22:09:09] <CGamesPlay> yeah
  130. [22:09:17] <CGamesPlay> deleting it will fix though
  131. [22:15:19] * jcollie (n=jcollie@161.210.6.44) Quit ("Ex-Chat")
  132. [22:20:06] <chuck> JanRain's openid server is failing
  133. [22:20:24] <acemtp> chuck: why?
  134. [22:20:35] <chuck> acemtp: Fatal error: Call to a member function needsSigning() on a non-object in /usr/share/php/Auth/OpenID/Server.php on line 1458
  135. [22:20:41] <acemtp> :/
  136. [22:26:24] * VxJasonxV (n=jason@xmms2/troll/VxJasonxV) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  137. [22:30:32] <chuck> acemtp: do you know why it does that
  138. [22:30:59] <acemtp> absolutly no idea
  139. [22:41:13] * TedThibodeauJr (n=Thud@c-76-119-195-179.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #openid
  140. [22:41:13] <jibot> TedThibodeauJr is a Technology Evangelist from http://www.openlinksw.com/ and a Troublemaker from Way Back
  141. [22:43:07] <_keturn> acemtp: myOpenID translations are mostly user provided. See http://janrain.com/translate/
  142. [22:43:41] <acemtp> okay
  143. [22:54:02] <acemtp> _keturn: i sent a request
  144. [22:59:51] * acemtp (n=Miranda@log78-1-82-242-47-3.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ("http://www.mtp-target.org")
  145. [23:09:59] * tav (n=tav@client-86-26-201-51.winn.adsl.virgin.net) has joined #openid
  146. [23:09:59] <jibot> tav is from london, uk and can be found at plex:tav
  147. [23:10:39] * tav waves to GabeW, idnar, MrTopf and SteveA
  148. [23:10:55] <MrTopf> Hey tav
  149. [23:11:04] <tav> how goes?
  150. [23:11:21] <MrTopf> tired.. ;-)
  151. [23:11:26] <MrTopf> 0:11 and still in the office
  152. [23:11:26] <idnar> o hi
  153. [23:11:32] <MrTopf> thanks to some client updates..
  154. [23:11:39] <MrTopf> how are you?
  155. [23:12:06] <tav> ouch.
  156. [23:12:29] <tav> not bad -- down by the seaside, but still in front of a computer ;p
  157. [23:12:39] <MrTopf> heh :)
  158. [23:12:53] <MrTopf> well, I am not for much longer anyway, finally leaving very soon :)
  159. [23:12:58] <tav> woo!
  160. [23:13:27] <tav> was expecting this channel to be far busier
  161. [23:15:48] <tav> trying to figure out whether to support XRIs on the application layer
  162. [23:16:05] <tav> for a very basic definition of support ;p
  163. [23:16:28] <tav> do openid users actually use xri identifiers ?
  164. [23:18:54] <polyonymous> some of them do.
  165. [23:20:59] <tav> hmz
  166. [23:21:39] <polyonymous> and my guess is that xris are going to get popular.
  167. [23:23:42] <MrTopf> good night! :-)
  168. [23:23:53] * MrTopf (i=hidden-u@oecher.info) Quit ()
  169. [23:25:43] <tav> hmz, gonna have to rethink providing urls of the form: /profile/tav.myopenid.com (where the last bit after / is the openid identifier with the leading http:// stripped out) -- supporting xris means having to put lots of encoded '/' in, which looks ugly
  170. [23:26:12] <polyonymous> why?
  171. [23:26:28] <polyonymous> urls may be ugly as well
  172. [23:26:49] <polyonymous> I think it's just fine to have /profile/=iname
  173. [23:26:55] <tav> isn't /profile/http%3A%2F%2Ftav.myopenid.com a tad ugly ?
  174. [23:27:06] <polyonymous> why http?
  175. [23:27:22] <polyonymous> you can keep stripping http off.
  176. [23:27:33] <polyonymous> But how would you distinguish between http and https then?
  177. [23:27:39] <tav> hmz, maybe i misunderstood xris -- how would i distinguish ?
  178. [23:27:51] <tav> you make a good point
  179. [23:28:01] <polyonymous> OpenID specs section 7.2, (2)
  180. [23:28:20] <polyonymous> ('=','@','+','$','!') iirc.
  181. [23:28:33] <polyonymous> and, perhaps, '('.
  182. [23:28:46] <polyonymous> But https dilemma is worse.
  183. [23:28:59] <polyonymous> BTW, why can't you /profile/http:// ?
  184. [23:29:24] <polyonymous> you don't have to encode it.
  185. [23:30:05] <tav> ah, i saw the wikipedia article and saw: xri://broadview.library.example.com/(urn:isbn:0-395-36341-1) and assumed that they could begin with more than just those characters?
  186. [23:30:54] <polyonymous> I dunno if it's a valid xri identifier, but it's definitely not suitable for openid according to openid specs.
  187. [23:31:48] <polyonymous> for what I can tell by briefly looking at xri specs, it's not a valid xri at all.
  188. [23:31:53] <tav> ah, the encoding is needed, because wanting pretty urls for other parts of the application i use '/' as a delimiter for passing in further positional arguments, thus '/' has to be encoded within each "part"
  189. [23:32:00] <tav> thanks polyonymous! that solves it =)
  190. [23:32:41] <polyonymous> but if you're not going to add additional parameter to /profile/ component, you can work around it...
  191. [23:32:52] <polyonymous> you still have http(s) problem, remember? :)
  192. [23:33:10] * tav pouts
  193. [23:33:17] <tav> if i ignore a problem it won't go away? ;p
  194. [23:33:32] <polyonymous> depends on how long are you going to ignore it.
  195. [23:33:39] <polyonymous> for a short while it may go away ;-)
  196. [23:33:54] <polyonymous> (I'm wrong, the above xri is valid, but not for openid)
  197. [23:35:56] <tav> hmz, how about if i were to treat http and https identifiers as the same -- meaning a user cannot login using the same identifier with different protocols ?
  198. [23:36:29] <polyonymous> in theory, these are different identifiers that may belong to different users.
  199. [23:36:58] <tav> true, but how likely is that to happen?
  200. [23:37:21] <polyonymous> in practice, it is very likely that myopenid.com will complain if they once log in with http and then can't use https :)
  201. [23:37:32] <polyonymous> or vice versa :)
  202. [23:38:05] <polyonymous> It depends on your userbase. And, of course, it's very unlikely that users will have the same host with different schemata :)
  203. [23:38:06] <tav> but, if that part is stripped -- then why does it matter?
  204. [23:38:40] <tav> e.g. i log on for the first time with https://tav.myopenid.com -- then later with just http -- the system still treats me as 'tav.myopenid.com'
  205. [23:39:26] <polyonymous> ah. are you going to require that openids that differ only in schema part has to belong to the same user?
  206. [23:39:33] <tav> yes
  207. [23:39:46] <polyonymous> That is likely to work.
  208. [23:40:22] <polyonymous> but if you really want to support openid, nowadays you should also think of yahoo openids...
  209. [23:40:31] <tav> i have =(
  210. [23:40:35] <tav> me.yahoo.com/hfoeahaeoieohfoaiae
  211. [23:40:36] <tav> =)
  212. [23:40:40] <polyonymous> yup :)
  213. [23:40:59] <polyonymous> and worse - me.yahoo.com/hf952hpfhp829h52#3k54h9854--
  214. [23:41:00] <polyonymous> :)
  215. [23:41:07] <polyonymous> note the fragment part.
  216. [23:41:17] <tav> ehm, there's a fragment part ?
  217. [23:41:32] <polyonymous> here is my openid reply: claimed_id=https://me.yahoo.com/a/.IcSe7sTrdE8crbFiJ7GS0f57X.1Je3r6A--#b31d0
  218. [23:41:32] <polyonymous> identity=https://me.yahoo.com/a/.IcSe7sTrdE8crbFiJ7GS0f57X.1Je3r6A--
  219. [23:41:34] <tav> wtf?
  220. [23:42:01] <polyonymous> the fragment part is for identifier reuse, in case someone takes ownership of the same URL.
  221. [23:42:25] <polyonymous> but I can hardly imaging someone taking ownership of a/.IcSe7sTrdE8crbFiJ7GS0f57X.1Je3r6A-- url :)
  222. [23:42:47] <tav> heh
  223. [23:42:48] <polyonymous> so what is the idea behind yahoo's fragments I don't know :)
  224. [23:45:20] <tav> so, in short, it's going to look ugly like hell =)
  225. [23:45:26] * tav cries
  226. [23:45:34] <tav> why can't they make it pretty mama?
  227. [23:45:37] <polyonymous> well, there's nothing you can do to prettify yahoo urls :)
  228. [23:45:45] <johnjay> polyonymous: yes you can...
  229. [23:45:47] <polyonymous> why you can get pretty urls from yahoo.
  230. [23:45:59] <johnjay> There is a customization option at the provisioning stage
  231. [23:46:02] <polyonymous> johnjay, on yahoo site, not once you get the ugly one.
  232. [23:46:11] <polyonymous> s/site/side/
  233. [23:46:27] <johnjay> polyonymous: this is not correct, if you click on on the OpenID Home link in the header it will give you the option to.
  234. [23:46:59] <polyonymous> johnjay, I mean as an RP, once you get the ugly url.
  235. [23:48:06] <johnjay> polyonymous: sorry I'm not following you, all I know is that it is possible to "prettify" your OpenID identifier with yahoo
  236. [23:48:40] <polyonymous> johnjay, the tav's problem is displaying pretty urls for openid identifiers of users. So, it's beyond his control what identity user supplies.
  237. [23:48:40] <tav> wow
  238. [23:49:15] <polyonymous> but well, the user may choose to use his dynamic dialup hostname as an identity ;-))
  239. [23:49:19] <tav> polyonymous: johnjay is right -- if you goto openid.yahoo.com, you get a "hidden" option to choose a me.yahoo.com/tav identity
  240. [23:49:52] <polyonymous> tav, I know that. But we're talking about RP, not openid users.
  241. [23:50:44] <polyonymous> and, btw, you get the fragment part with pretty url as well :)
  242. [23:51:19] <tav> no fucking way
  243. [23:51:20] <tav> gah!
  244. [23:51:32] <polyonymous> it even makes sense for pretty ones :)
  245. [23:53:13] <tav> hmz, perhaps i should just map identifier -> uuid and be done with it
  246. [23:53:31] <polyonymous> always the possibility. or sha256 of identity ;-)
  247. [23:54:14] <polyonymous> (this way you can generate url for identity, without your tables)
  248. [23:54:33] <tav> hmz, good point
  249. [23:54:47] <tav> wanna check me out? goto: /profile/ca0e914d700673e621f706d85f1d13edcd21bec0e8fdae14872c1b057e3ef62e !
  250. [23:55:14] <polyonymous> how about using base64? it will shorten the url :)
  251. [23:56:57] <tav> hmz, it has chars like '+/', no? ;p
  252. [23:57:05] <tav> even with base32: /profile/ZIHJCTLQAZZ6MIPXA3MF6HIT5XGSDPWA5D624FEHFQNQK7R66YXA
  253. [23:57:05] <polyonymous> no
  254. [23:57:19] <polyonymous> base64 has '='
  255. [23:57:21] <tav> those can be replaced with other chars?
  256. [23:57:39] <polyonymous> but '=' is not a slash, you can keep it.
  257. [23:58:15] <polyonymous> I think '=' can be safely stripped too
  258. [23:58:50] <polyonymous> you only get '=' at the end, you can work around it.
  259. [23:58:54] <tav> ah
  260. [23:58:55] <tav> --
  261. [23:58:58] <tav> For this reason, a modified Base64 for URL variant exists, where no padding '=' will be used, and the '+' and '/' characters of standard Base64 are respectively replaced by '-' and '_'
  262. [23:58:58] <tav> -
  263. [23:59:10] <polyonymous> aha
  264. [23:59:15] <polyonymous> sounds good

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