IRC Log for #openid on 2009-09-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  50. [13:07:57] <Skaperen> anyone know of an openid server (provider) implementation in C ?
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  52. [13:11:27] <Skaperen> what is the implication of using 2 or more different OpenID providers to login to the same web site?
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  59. [14:04:47] <openstandards> hi, what would you use to auth between openid and ldap... openid-ldap won't work as my php version has been patched, any others?
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  66. [14:47:35] <yangman> Skaperen: depends if you're using the same identity or not
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  78. [16:32:01] <Skaperen> yangman: but wouldn't different IDs be different IDs?
  79. [16:32:33] <Skaperen> yangman: this is what I'm trying to figure out about OpenID ... what constitutes the ID?
  80. [16:33:06] <Skaperen> I don't want to be known as skaperen.example.com (for example)
  81. [16:33:10] <yangman> the URL you're identifying
  82. [16:33:25] <Skaperen> but if the URL changes, then the ID is different, right?
  83. [16:33:38] <yangman> you can theoretically have different consumers discover different endpoints with the same identity
  84. [16:34:01] <yangman> and those different endpoints can still authenticate you to that single identity
  85. [16:34:29] <Skaperen> I have no idea what that means ... I still don't understand OpenID
  86. [16:35:51] <Skaperen> I looked at a site that uses OpenID (specifically stackoverflow.com) ... I don't see any posts there with any IDs that look like OpenID
  87. [16:36:09] <Skaperen> so either no one uses it, or there is some kind of aliasing going on
  88. [16:36:19] <yangman> stackoverflow doesn't display the URL
  89. [16:36:55] <yangman> I'm actually not sure if they allow a profile with just an openid url
  90. [16:37:13] <yangman> okay, so what part of openid confuses you?
  91. [16:38:28] <Skaperen> all of it (so far)
  92. [16:38:41] <yangman> okay
  93. [16:38:45] <Skaperen> I was trying to read the protocol docs
  94. [16:38:47] <yangman> so, you have an URL. this is your identity
  95. [16:39:03] <Skaperen> but that seems to assume understanding its principles, first
  96. [16:39:27] <Skaperen> well I don't have one ... but I guess we'll pretend for now
  97. [16:39:40] <yangman> using this URL, an openid-supporting service (consumer) can discover an openid-server (endpoint) to which it will use to authenticate that identity
  98. [16:40:15] <Skaperen> presumably that happens by some translation of the URL?
  99. [16:40:31] <yangman> no. there's a protocol for performing endpoint discovery
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  101. [16:40:51] <yangman> this is key. the identity URL and endpoint URL are, by design, not strictly related to each other
  102. [16:41:05] <Skaperen> what does an OpenID actally look like? I saw ones that look like a username prefixed on a domain name
  103. [16:41:11] <yangman> so, you can actually change the endpoit you use, but continue to authenticate using the same identity
  104. [16:41:25] <yangman> and openid identity is a URL
  105. [16:41:37] <yangman> mine, for example, is just http://yangman.ca/
  106. [16:41:38] <Skaperen> so I assumed if I own example.com I could have skaperen.example.com or http://skaperen.example.com/ as my OpenID
  107. [16:42:44] * jochen (n=jochen@77.73.176.113) has joined #openid
  108. [16:42:46] <yangman> or even http://example.com/
  109. [16:43:28] <Skaperen> what what discovery steps happen ... and where will it ultimately get to ... assume I'm a self-provider as opposed to using another provider (I'm guessing you are)
  110. [16:44:59] <yangman> okay, so this is where the decoupling of identity and endpoint come in
  111. [16:45:21] <yangman> an OpenID provider can provide both identity and endpoint, but it can also just provide an endpoit
  112. [16:46:07] * jochen (n=jochen@77.73.176.113) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  113. [16:46:52] <yangman> so, say you're using http://example.com/ as your identity, but you also have an openid provided by foo.net, which is "http://user.foo.net/"
  114. [16:47:18] <yangman> you can setup http://example.com/ such that it says "I am actually `http://user.foo.net/'"
  115. [16:47:33] <Skaperen> is that done with HTTP redirect?
  116. [16:47:50] <yangman> it's part of the discovery protocol
  117. [16:48:10] <yangman> I'm just explaning the core concepts right now
  118. [16:49:01] <yangman> anyways, the point is, an "openid provider" isn't strictly "identity + openid server provider"
  119. [16:49:30] * jochen (n=jochen@router.begen1.office.netnoc.eu) has joined #openid
  120. [16:49:31] <Skaperen> OK ... do keep in mine that my intent is to avoid using some other provider ... If I wanted to use them, I wouldn't need to uynderstand this stuff ... but I want to self-provide ... and later put it on a web site I'm building
  121. [16:49:33] * jochen (n=jochen@router.begen1.office.netnoc.eu) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  122. [16:50:00] <yangman> self-provide both identity and server?
  123. [16:50:00] * jochen (n=jochen@router.begen1.office.netnoc.eu) has joined #openid
  124. [16:50:17] <yangman> server being equivalent to endpoint, in this case
  125. [16:50:23] <Skaperen> I assume so ... I can't say a firm "yes" to that without understanding how this works
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  127. [16:50:53] <yangman> I wouldn't really recommend running your own server unless you have very good reasons to
  128. [16:51:19] <Skaperen> letting someone else provide it is the last thing I want to do
  129. [16:51:41] <yangman> ok
  130. [16:51:46] * Skaperen is very paranoid about security and privacy
  131. [16:52:15] <yangman> so, once the consumer discovers an endpoint, it moves onto the actual association and authentication exchanges
  132. [16:52:24] <Skaperen> if I did let someone else provide the ID, I'd have to create a separate one for each web site I login to, which defeats a key intent of OpenID
  133. [16:52:50] <Skaperen> the concern here isn't that a provider can see where I go ... but that they can see pairings of where I go
  134. [16:52:58] <yangman> at the end of it all, the endpoit redirects the user back to the consumer with either a "user successfully authenticated as IDENTITY" or "cancel"
  135. [16:53:19] <yangman> eh?
  136. [16:53:34] <yangman> oh
  137. [16:53:39] <yangman> okay, fair enough
  138. [16:54:36] <Skaperen> for example I do have an account on blogspot with a blog ... I could in theory use that account as a base for OpenID since they are a provider ... but if I use it, I would have to limit its use to not more than one web site to meet my privacy concerns
  139. [16:54:36] <yangman> anyways, that's openid in a nutshell. everything else is protocol stuff that's not very interesting unless you're implementing your own consumer or server
  140. [16:56:17] * karstensrage (n=chatzill@70.42.238.2) has joined #openid
  141. [16:56:18] <Skaperen> so if I use skaperen.blogspot.com as my OpenID to login to stackoverflow.com, and post as logged in, what will my posts show as who they came from?
  142. [16:56:40] <yangman> depends on how the consumer has implemented it
  143. [16:56:52] <Skaperen> my first guess would be "skaperen.blogspot.com" ... but I saw no posts like that
  144. [16:57:04] <yangman> stackoverflow, specifically, also allow you to associate up to 2 identities per account
  145. [16:57:20] <yangman> I'm pretty sure they ask you to specify the display name you want
  146. [16:57:37] <Skaperen> so there's more they want than just the openid?
  147. [16:57:48] <yangman> them, yes
  148. [16:57:58] <yangman> it also pulls SREG
  149. [16:58:01] <Skaperen> are they typical about this?
  150. [16:58:18] <Skaperen> what does sreg provide? I saw that referenced as a registration means
  151. [16:58:41] <yangman> a small, predefined set of information a server can provide to consumers
  152. [16:58:51] <yangman> fullname, nickname, timezone, date of birth, etc
  153. [16:59:06] <yangman> a lot of sites use it. some don't
  154. [16:59:10] <Skaperen> I am building a web site ... I would like to let people use openid to login there ... but I'll need to understand the implications of that during the building of it
  155. [16:59:31] <yangman> it's information provided at authentication time
  156. [16:59:52] <Skaperen> so they can pull the nickname from that and display that?
  157. [17:00:03] <yangman> so, a consumer can request to an endpoint "I want to check authentication for IDENTITY, and also these SREG fields if they are available"
  158. [17:00:06] <yangman> yup
  159. [17:01:14] <Skaperen> what about collisions of nicknames? I do have "skaperen" on blogspot ... someone else has the same nick on wordpress
  160. [17:01:27] <yangman> up to the consumer
  161. [17:02:04] <yangman> the underlying identity is different. how the sreg info are used is up to the consumer
  162. [17:02:39] <Skaperen> so in the consumer role (for my website that users will use) if I can figure out a way to keep users distinguished while they use the same nicknames, that won't conflict with openid at all?
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  164. [17:03:55] <yangman> there's no defined interpretation rules for sreg info
  165. [17:05:21] <Skaperen> so someone could have http://yangman.eu/ while you have http://yangman.ca/ and I could display both as "Yangman", but code the URLs for direct replies and such to some kind of unique identity, which MAY be the openid string, or MAY just be a sequential signup number
  166. [17:07:07] <Skaperen> but a site like blogspot could not do that because it can't share "skaperen.blogspot.com" ... so someone else coming along wanting to set up a blog there and has "skaperen" as their nick would have to choose a different blog name?
  167. [17:08:24] <yangman> um... yeah
  168. [17:10:01] <Skaperen> I downloaded the package phpMyID from the openid site ... looks like I can just run this to serve my own ID (but it's limited to ONE ID so I'm going to look for another) ... I looked at the source and found several hard coded big numbers presumably for the crypto ... are these numbers part of the specs that all these packages would include in some form?
  169. [17:10:28] <yangman> blogspot is a bad example though. their accounts are google accounts, and you can create google accounts with arbitrary openid identity
  170. [17:10:50] <Skaperen> I see ... OK ... twitter?
  171. [17:10:55] <yangman> not a consumer
  172. [17:11:00] <yangman> ;)
  173. [17:11:19] <yangman> (and I meant "can't create google accounts..."
  174. [17:11:32] <yangman> "n't" is getting away from me a lot today
  175. [17:11:34] <Skaperen> I was thinking of them as provider only, for example of usage by people that might go to my website (consumer)
  176. [17:12:33] <yangman> so, you want a server implementation that'll support multiple IDs?
  177. [17:12:47] * Skaperen wonders how many IDs he might have at google ... given that he has 4 blogs under 3 accounts, plus 5 gmail addresses
  178. [17:13:23] <Skaperen> yes I do ... at least to have something to look at to see how it's done
  179. [17:13:38] <yangman> http://yangman.ca/poit/
  180. [17:13:43] <Skaperen> I have a domain name I'm considering doing some kind of provider service for
  181. [17:13:47] <yangman> mine does multiple IDs but single-user
  182. [17:13:56] <yangman> if that's what you're looking for
  183. [17:14:15] <yangman> most of the server implementations out there are for single-user or use another CMS as backend
  184. [17:14:20] <Skaperen> it's "ham.org" and the idea is for ham radio operators to use their callsign with it, like mine is: http://ka9wgn.ham.org/
  185. [17:14:42] <yangman> ah, so you want to become an ID provider
  186. [17:15:00] <Skaperen> for that domain, yes
  187. [17:15:06] <Skaperen> well, thinking about it
  188. [17:15:26] <Skaperen> I have a different web site I want to be an ID consumer for
  189. [17:17:17] <Skaperen> but I also do NOT want to make OpenID mandatory on that web site ... if someone wants to sign up the old way, they can
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  231. [23:10:56] <flaccid> openstandards: you could write your own or choose a decent language like python
  232. [23:11:57] * samsm (n=samsm@c-67-191-159-220.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #openid
  233. [23:13:03] <openstandards> doesn't anything already exist not to bothered by the language, programming isn't something i'm good at
  234. [23:14:08] <flaccid> openstandards: openldap has its own lang called ldif. so this is already the case
  235. [23:18:03] <openstandards> flaccid thanks wasn't aware of that project before
  236. [23:35:04] * singpolyma (n=singpoly@216.16.242.254) has joined #openid
  237. [23:41:43] <flaccid> openstandards: which project ?
  238. [23:42:04] <flaccid> oh and when i said openldap i meant ldap because ldif is ldap itself
  239. [23:42:54] <openstandards> http://www.openid-ldap.org/
  240. [23:44:33] <flaccid> yeah but i think thats outdated/badly maintained
  241. [23:44:57] <flaccid> i could be wrong... check it out
  242. [23:45:12] <openstandards> it is 2008 the last update
  243. [23:45:38] <flaccid> yeah dates don't entirely indicate everything too
  244. [23:47:55] <openstandards> i remember seeing this http://blogs.sun.com/treydrake/entry/an_out_of_the_box aswell
  245. [23:48:43] <flaccid> is openDS ldap ?
  246. [23:55:03] * MacTed (n=Thud@c-24-61-62-241.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #openid

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