IRC Log for #openid on 2009-11-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  85. [13:44:24] <elysion> hi! could someone here tell me if it is possible to create a single sign on system on my server that would use openid, so that the user would have only to log in to one of the sites and would after that be logged in to all of them?
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  118. [19:43:04] <takahiro> hi
  119. [19:43:22] <takahiro> i'm having trouble logging in using openid with my gmail account
  120. [19:43:37] <takahiro> it keeps saying my gmail account is not a valid OpenID
  121. [19:45:39] <yangman> takahiro: are you trying to login using your email address as the identity?
  122. [19:48:56] <takahiro> sure
  123. [19:49:01] <takahiro> i believe google supports OpenID
  124. [19:49:28] <yangman> it does in a special way
  125. [19:49:35] <takahiro> hmm
  126. [19:49:58] <yangman> you authenticate using the same URL as everybody else, and it then authenticates you against your actual google credential once redirected
  127. [19:50:55] <takahiro> i don't know what that means
  128. [19:51:08] <takahiro> do i need to create an OpenID for each of my accounts?
  129. [19:51:08] <yangman> https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id
  130. [19:51:10] <yangman> log in with that
  131. [19:51:28] <yangman> all google accounts use that URL as their openid
  132. [19:51:42] <takahiro> IE is asking me if i want to save the file
  133. [19:51:48] <takahiro> should i download it?
  134. [19:51:55] <yangman> what are you trying to log into?
  135. [19:52:05] <takahiro> the URL you gave me, it's telling me to download
  136. [19:52:12] <takahiro> "Do you want to save this file?"
  137. [19:52:21] <takahiro> "Name: id Type: Unknown From: www.google.com"
  138. [19:52:24] <yangman> there's no point going *to* that URL
  139. [19:52:42] <takahiro> oooh
  140. [19:52:43] <yangman> that's the URL you put into the login field when you want to use your google account as OpenID login to a site
  141. [19:52:45] <takahiro> im very confused
  142. [19:53:13] <takahiro> i thought the point of OpenID was that i just need to implement one login and i could use all supported systems like google, yahoo, aol
  143. [19:53:26] <yangman> only if they support it
  144. [19:53:42] <yangman> google, yahoo, etc are only providers for OpenID. they don't consume
  145. [19:53:51] <takahiro> oooh
  146. [19:53:55] <takahiro> that sucks
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  148. [19:54:35] <takahiro> so is there a way to login using my google account?
  149. [19:56:37] <takahiro> i'm not sure what the point is of being a provider
  150. [19:58:27] <takahiro> so the google accounts are only used for creating an OpenID right?
  151. [19:58:34] <takahiro> i can't actually login using my google account
  152. [19:58:49] <takahiro> first i create an OpenID on OpenID.net
  153. [19:59:02] <takahiro> and register for an account using my google account as my e-mail address
  154. [19:59:20] <takahiro> but i'm not sure where to create an account
  155. [19:59:43] <takahiro> where do i go to register for an OpenID?
  156. [19:59:45] <yangman> if you've registered with openid.net, you should already have a valid openid identity with them
  157. [19:59:55] <takahiro> no i haven't registered yet
  158. [20:00:04] <yangman> ok
  159. [20:00:12] <yangman> well, you can always just use your google account
  160. [20:00:16] <takahiro> so i have to tell all my users that they need to register on openid right?
  161. [20:00:32] <yangman> no, just that they have an openid identity
  162. [20:00:38] <yangman> look at how stackoverflow explains it
  163. [20:00:49] <takahiro> but how can they login? it rejected my @gmail.com address
  164. [20:00:51] * HerrTopf (n=cs@p5B3D770A.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #openid
  165. [20:01:02] <yangman> because email addresses aren't valid openid identities
  166. [20:01:19] <yangman> an openid identity is either an URL or XRI
  167. [20:01:19] <takahiro> what's the difference between a google account and the google email address?
  168. [20:01:42] <yangman> they're separate things
  169. [20:01:51] <takahiro> is identity same as the login username?
  170. [20:02:01] <yangman> just that, on google's services, your login to your google account can be your google email address
  171. [20:02:15] <takahiro> ok
  172. [20:02:27] <takahiro> so if i have a website and i want to let people post comments, can i use openid?
  173. [20:02:37] <takahiro> because that's what i'm building
  174. [20:02:42] <yangman> yeah
  175. [20:02:58] <yangman> easier to just take an existing implementation
  176. [20:03:12] <yangman> I suggest you go read up on the concepts of OpenID first, though
  177. [20:03:28] <takahiro> it's weird because i just want one login box
  178. [20:03:34] <takahiro> and i don't want to do any redirects to google
  179. [20:03:44] <yangman> redirections are mandatory
  180. [20:03:55] <takahiro> ohh i know
  181. [20:04:11] <takahiro> i should ask for their google username and password, then forward that on a background process to do the redirect and fill out the form
  182. [20:04:20] <yangman> no
  183. [20:04:21] <takahiro> then they will never see the redirect
  184. [20:04:24] <yangman> just... no
  185. [20:04:33] <takahiro> it wouldn't work?
  186. [20:04:54] <yangman> it's a gaping security hole
  187. [20:04:57] <yangman> and, yes, it wouldn't work
  188. [20:05:11] <yangman> because it's a gapin security hole that any sane service would plug
  189. [20:05:47] <takahiro> i was using a wordpress blog and when i wanted to sign-in with google
  190. [20:06:01] <yangman> there are plugins available for wordpress to handle openid
  191. [20:06:04] <takahiro> the login credentials were requested in a pop-up div
  192. [20:06:13] <takahiro> it never redirected or anything
  193. [20:06:29] <takahiro> i think all of the blogger.com blogs do that
  194. [20:06:29] <yangman> the content in the popup is from google
  195. [20:06:40] <yangman> it's just one way to provide a smoother user experience
  196. [20:06:44] <takahiro> ok
  197. [20:06:51] <takahiro> so i don't have to redirect away from my site
  198. [20:07:06] <takahiro> that's all im saying
  199. [20:07:27] <yangman> depends on your definition of "redirect away"
  200. [20:07:44] <takahiro> the user's browser's URL actually changes from www.mysite.com to www.google.com
  201. [20:07:44] <yangman> at some point, the user stops interacting with your site and starts interacting with the provider one
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  204. [20:08:05] <yangman> anyways, you get my point
  205. [20:08:14] <takahiro> maybe that's done with ajax or something
  206. [20:08:32] <takahiro> i'm still really confused about why i can't login
  207. [20:08:48] <takahiro> i downloaded the PHP open ID library
  208. [20:08:58] <takahiro> i loaded up the example form
  209. [20:09:06] <takahiro> and i entered my gmail address, and submitted the test
  210. [20:09:21] <yangman> you're still not understanding the first thing aobut openid
  211. [20:09:22] <takahiro> and it says, "Authentication error; not a valid OpenID"
  212. [20:09:28] <yangman> you can't login with your google email address
  213. [20:09:36] <yangman> because it's not a valid openid
  214. [20:09:43] <yangman> go log into stackoverflow
  215. [20:09:49] <yangman> click the big google button and see what it does
  216. [20:10:31] <takahiro> yeah i can't login there either
  217. [20:10:41] <takahiro> it says: "OpenIDs are in the form of URLs, not email addresses"
  218. [20:11:00] <yangman> don't fill anything in
  219. [20:11:03] <yangman> just click the google button
  220. [20:11:15] <takahiro> google button? doesn't that just take me to google.com ?
  221. [20:11:20] <yangman> just do it
  222. [20:11:22] <takahiro> looks like an advertisement
  223. [20:11:29] <takahiro> ok
  224. [20:11:39] <takahiro> it says "You are signing in to Stackoverflow"
  225. [20:11:49] <yangman> you should see the identity box fill with an URL before you're redirected away
  226. [20:11:53] <takahiro> and now I am on www.google.com
  227. [20:12:02] <yangman> google uses a single URL for all openid logins
  228. [20:12:11] <yangman> (I've been repeating this over and over)
  229. [20:12:29] <takahiro> ooh
  230. [20:12:39] <takahiro> it doesnt make sense until you showed me the link
  231. [20:12:51] <takahiro> because how was i supposed to know to type that long URL into the openid box
  232. [20:12:59] <yangman> you didn't
  233. [20:13:04] <yangman> and I told you, but you weren't listening ;)
  234. [20:13:15] <yangman> now you know
  235. [20:13:19] <takahiro> it's not very intuitive
  236. [20:13:25] <yangman> indeed not
  237. [20:13:34] <takahiro> so i should tell my users that if they want to login using google, please type that special magic URL?
  238. [20:13:37] <yangman> that's why there's that big "Log in with Google" button
  239. [20:13:49] <yangman> just use one of the off-the-shelf OpenID login forms
  240. [20:14:31] <takahiro> wait
  241. [20:14:45] <takahiro> does this mean i need to know the correct way to login for every single openID provider?
  242. [20:15:03] <takahiro> and there could be thousands of providers and i need to code each one?
  243. [20:15:06] <yangman> no
  244. [20:15:15] <yangman> most of them provide the user with a straightforward URL
  245. [20:15:20] <yangman> google is an exception
  246. [20:15:31] <takahiro> because i don't know the magic URL for yahoo, or aol, or blogger, etc. etc.
  247. [20:15:38] <takahiro> oh
  248. [20:15:47] <takahiro> hmmm
  249. [20:15:50] <yangman> yahoo does something out of the ordinary, too
  250. [20:16:01] <yangman> all of this is well documented. you can look it up if you need to
  251. [20:16:06] <takahiro> wow i guess openID isn't as easy as i thought
  252. [20:16:27] <yangman> use libraries ;)
  253. [20:16:28] <takahiro> is it still worth it to use? i might as well just create a sign-up on my site and forget openid
  254. [20:17:35] <takahiro> when i clicked on AOL, stackoverflow showed me a form
  255. [20:17:40] <takahiro> it didn't even redirect
  256. [20:18:42] <yangman> in a popup?
  257. [20:18:56] <takahiro> no, on the same page
  258. [20:19:09] <takahiro> i guess it was a hidden div, and it appears right above the OpenID box
  259. [20:19:14] <yangman> I've no idea what it does for AOL
  260. [20:19:25] <yangman> it's all just UI things to make it easier for people using it
  261. [20:20:19] <takahiro> ok i guess if i support google, yahoo, and AOL then i should be ok
  262. [20:20:26] <takahiro> since those are three pretty big ones
  263. [20:21:42] <takahiro> you know what would be cool? openid based on email addresses
  264. [20:22:22] <takahiro> oh well
  265. [20:22:51] <yangman> look up webfinger
  266. [20:24:01] <takahiro> ok
  267. [20:25:50] <singpolyma> takahiro: http://username@domain.tld/ is the natural normalisation of username@domain.tld and works as an HTTP URL
  268. [20:27:23] <singpolyma> Yahoo doesn't do anything strange. They just use yahoo.com, *and* they also give the user a natural URL
  269. [20:28:02] <singpolyma> AOL also gives relatively sane URLs to all users (http://openid.aol.com/screenname)
  270. [20:29:04] * MrTopf (n=cs@p5B3D770A.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit ()
  271. [20:35:25] <takahiro> interesting
  272. [20:35:43] <takahiro> so for aol, i need to collect the screenname before redirecting
  273. [20:38:12] * xpo (n=xpo@bearstech/xpo) Quit ()
  274. [20:39:14] <yangman> you don't have to. the user can just input the URL themselves
  275. [20:39:31] <yangman> the extra stuff stackoverflow does is all just convenience
  276. [20:49:23] * MrTopf (n=cs@p5B3D770A.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #openid
  277. [20:55:09] * flaccid (n=flaccid@120.152.107.116) has joined #openid
  278. [21:18:58] * MrTopf (n=cs@p5B3D770A.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit ()
  279. [21:20:33] * marclaporte (n=Miranda@out.clearnet.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  280. [21:37:15] * marclaporte (n=Miranda@out.clearnet.com) has joined #openid
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  284. [22:14:43] * flaccid (n=flaccid@unaffiliated/flaccid) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  285. [22:14:44] * flaccid_ is now known as flaccid
  286. [22:53:07] * MacTed (n=Thud@c-24-61-62-241.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #openid
  287. [22:54:03] * singpolyma (n=singpoly@node-6511.tor.pppoe.execulink.com) Quit ("Lost terminal")
  288. [22:54:17] * singpolyma (n=singpoly@node-6511.tor.pppoe.execulink.com) has joined #openid
  289. [22:59:10] * singpolyma (n=singpoly@node-6511.tor.pppoe.execulink.com) Quit (Client Quit)
  290. [23:00:21] * singpolyma (n=singpoly@node-6511.tor.pppoe.execulink.com) has joined #openid
  291. [23:08:13] * singpolyma (n=singpoly@node-6511.tor.pppoe.execulink.com) Quit ("Lost terminal")
  292. [23:08:25] * singpolyma (n=singpoly@node-6511.tor.pppoe.execulink.com) has joined #openid
  293. [23:14:54] * singpolyma (n=singpoly@node-6511.tor.pppoe.execulink.com) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  294. [23:25:33] * Brend (n=brendonh@59-120-83-180.HINET-IP.hinet.net) has joined #openid
  295. [23:31:00] <takahiro> once the user logs in, can i get their e-mail address?
  296. [23:35:25] * daedeloth (n=daedelot@ip-81-11-164-117.dsl.scarlet.be) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  297. [23:36:17] <yangman> takahiro: use SREG or AX, but you can only get it if the user allows you to have it
  298. [23:37:09] <takahiro> ok
  299. [23:41:33] <Brend> (And if the OP supports it :( )
  300. [23:42:55] * Brend (n=brendonh@59-120-83-180.HINET-IP.hinet.net) Quit ()
  301. [23:57:58] * karstensrage (n=karstens@c-71-202-243-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #openid

These logs were automatically created by OpenIDlogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.