IRC Log for #openid on 2010-02-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:01:23] * karstensrage_alt (~karstensr@c-71-202-243-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #openid
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  4. [00:03:07] <keturn> Does the example code using BaseHTTPServer help at all, or do you find those equally impenetrable?
  5. [00:03:44] * kengyu (~lex_@199.223.125.189) Quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  6. [00:04:08] <yangman> there's a few gotchas, but I didn't find it that hard to implement providers and consumers
  7. [00:04:38] <yangman> mostly related to how there's a Response and then WebResponse
  8. [00:06:11] * kengyu (~lex_@199.223.125.189) has joined #openid
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  10. [00:08:01] <keturn> I guess what I'm saying is, I'm sorry if the API sucks, it's largely my fault, and if you have improvements I hope we can find a way to incorporate them.
  11. [00:08:49] <keturn> Writing an OpenID library from scratch kinda sucks, so I wouldn't really wish that on you. Writing something that mostly works isn't terribly difficult. Writing something that works with all versions of the protocol and every other implementation out there, however, gets pretty hairy.
  12. [00:10:23] <ronny> well, lets see
  13. [00:10:36] <ronny> at least the vcs is reasonable
  14. [00:11:22] * daleolds (~daleolds@137.65.156.1) has left #openid
  15. [00:12:29] <ronny> keturn: what repo format is that? darcs get --lazy seems to be ignored
  16. [00:14:23] <ronny> man, copying 2k patches is dead-slow
  17. [00:14:58] <yangman> I've made a git clone of the repo as well. that was fun to generate :\
  18. [00:15:52] <ronny> darcs is strictly more powerfull than git
  19. [00:16:19] <keturn> those repos are probably pre-darcs 2.0
  20. [00:16:33] <yangman> theoretically. but, git Works for Me. the intention was to fork, so I had no reason to stay with Darcs
  21. [00:16:39] <keturn> yangman: did you migrate the whole history?
  22. [00:17:14] <yangman> keturn: only for 2.x branch, and as best a history as the tool would give me
  23. [00:17:27] <yangman> http://yangman.ca/git/python-openid/
  24. [00:17:28] <ronny> keturn: what repo format are you using?
  25. [00:18:04] <yangman> I think I wiped some of the tags, but retrained as much as I could
  26. [00:19:02] <keturn> darcs query repo tells me darcs-1.0
  27. [00:19:33] <ronny> oh
  28. [00:19:37] <ronny> thats the old slow one
  29. [00:19:46] <ronny> you might want to upgrade it
  30. [00:20:04] <ronny> that allows neat things like only copying pristine instead of all patches
  31. [00:21:18] <ronny> lazy repos ftw
  32. [00:22:20] <ronny> how do i run the testsuite?
  33. [00:22:59] <keturn> admin/runtests
  34. [00:23:33] <ronny> oh damn, unittest
  35. [00:24:43] <ronny> oh, some unittests fail here, cause im in a network where the provider wont supply dns errors
  36. [00:25:24] <ronny> own bind instances ftw
  37. [00:25:57] <keturn> neat.
  38. [00:26:39] <keturn> I don't have admin access to openidenabled.com anymore, so I can't migrate the upstream repo format
  39. [00:27:02] <ronny> tell an admin?
  40. [00:28:16] <keturn> yeah. I'm a little surprised they haven't switched already, but then, looking at the changelog, the codebase hasn't exactly been very active lately.
  41. [00:28:19] <ronny> hmm, shouldnt the httplib2 fetcher be somewhere in createHTTPFetcher, like before testing for curl?
  42. [00:33:55] <keturn> maybe? but it looks like the primary benefit of that fetcher is that it can caching, but in order for it to do so you probably need to explicitly construct it with a cache location.
  43. [00:37:51] <ronny> it generally worked better than urllib
  44. [00:45:22] <ronny> hmm
  45. [00:45:36] <ronny> i feel like reimplementation is the way to go
  46. [00:46:29] <keturn> okay, have fun, see you next year :)
  47. [00:49:33] <ronny> keturn: i dont see a way to get myself working on this while keeping that api
  48. [00:54:05] <keturn> I guess I don't get yet where the barrier is. The only environment I've found where it really doesn't work is async environments like Twisted, where you essentially have to make a thread outside the framework to use the python-openid discovery code
  49. [00:54:25] <keturn> but werkzeug isn't async, afaik
  50. [00:58:19] <ronny> keturn: im a sucker for good apis, and anything i do for fun, has to be on good api's
  51. [01:04:43] <yangman> the discovery should really just be a separate Yadis library. the rest of OpenID parts don't care how data is coming or leaving
  52. [01:19:02] * shigeta (~shigeta@sakkgw2.sixapart.jp) has joined #openid
  53. [01:24:18] <keturn> yangman: it was for a while. but then nobody else used that protocol but OpenID, and managing two libraries was harder than managing one.
  54. [01:25:17] <ronny> hmm, what exactly is yardis actually?
  55. [01:27:17] <yangman> Yadis. it's a service discovery protocol
  56. [01:29:31] <ronny> hmm
  57. [01:29:50] <ronny> sounds like yet another thing that should be xmpp based
  58. [01:30:12] <yangman> huh?
  59. [01:31:23] <ronny> xmpp also has service discovery
  60. [01:31:30] <ronny> among many other nice features
  61. [01:31:45] <yangman> Yadis itself is fairly light weight
  62. [01:32:19] <yangman> and, iirc, some semantics around the content of retrieved XRDS
  63. [01:32:50] <ronny> hmm, if its all about discovert, take a look at XEP-0030 vs yadis
  64. [01:33:36] <yangman> right, but you're talking about an extension onto a protcol that's unsuitable by its very nature
  65. [01:38:24] <ronny> yangman: by now xmpp should be very suitable, since modern webapps are actually message/event based
  66. [01:38:41] <yangman> but Yadis isn't one
  67. [01:38:51] <yangman> it's strictly fetch resource, and interpret it
  68. [01:39:42] <ronny> well, xmpp already has a discovery protocol that seems much more simple and powerfull than yadis
  69. [01:39:50] <ronny> and its also request/response based
  70. [01:41:47] <yangman> I'm not sure if "needs XMPP server" qualifies it as simpler
  71. [01:48:10] <ronny> yangman: http, xmpp, both suck, but xmpp kicks ass as the world gets more & more into messages instead of serial request/response
  72. [01:48:47] <yangman> that's a tangential issue, I think
  73. [01:50:14] <yangman> it's not really a discussion I want to get into, but there's trade offs for everything. in this case, the tradeoff for using XMPP is to entirely avoid the main motivation for Yadis
  74. [01:50:28] <yangman> s/avoid/abandon/
  75. [01:50:40] <ronny> whats the main motivation for yadis/
  76. [01:51:25] <yangman> discover potential authentication services given only a URL (assuming HTTP environment, of course)
  77. [01:51:56] <yangman> were the URL is the identity to authenticate
  78. [01:53:16] <ronny> i see, that need doesnt exist in xmpp
  79. [01:53:24] <yangman> exactly
  80. [01:54:02] <ronny> well, tbh im not a fan of http at all
  81. [01:54:20] <ronny> its a mess that mostly gets abused these days
  82. [01:54:22] <yangman> it works just fine for what it was designed to do
  83. [01:55:09] <ronny> yangman: well, http is not a messaging system, its ressource representation transfer
  84. [01:55:25] <yangman> exactly, again
  85. [01:56:58] <ronny> the most recent abuse is websocket
  86. [01:57:02] <ronny> also there is comet
  87. [01:58:49] <ronny> oh damn, 0300 already
  88. [01:58:51] <ronny> good night
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  91. [02:21:21] <keturn> ok, I'll totally agree with you that doing what we're doing with the Internet today, HTTP is a pretty horrible thing to do it with
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  138. [16:28:58] <salty-horse> hi. there are several wordpress plugins that refer to something called OpenAvatar at the domain www.openvatar.com which is now dead. do you know it? was it the same as http://paulisageek.com/openidavatar/ ?
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