IRC Log for #openid on 2010-02-02
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [00:03:07] <keturn>
Does the example code using BaseHTTPServer help at all, or do you find those equally impenetrable?
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- [00:04:08] <yangman>
there's a few gotchas, but I didn't find it that hard to implement providers and consumers
- [00:04:38] <yangman>
mostly related to how there's a Response and then WebResponse
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- [00:08:01] <keturn>
I guess what I'm saying is, I'm sorry if the API sucks, it's largely my fault, and if you have improvements I hope we can find a way to incorporate them.
- [00:08:49] <keturn>
Writing an OpenID library from scratch kinda sucks, so I wouldn't really wish that on you. Writing something that mostly works isn't terribly difficult. Writing something that works with all versions of the protocol and every other implementation out there, however, gets pretty hairy.
- [00:10:23] <ronny>
well, lets see
- [00:10:36] <ronny>
at least the vcs is reasonable
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- [00:12:29] <ronny>
keturn: what repo format is that? darcs get --lazy seems to be ignored
- [00:14:23] <ronny>
man, copying 2k patches is dead-slow
- [00:14:58] <yangman>
I've made a git clone of the repo as well. that was fun to generate :\
- [00:15:52] <ronny>
darcs is strictly more powerfull than git
- [00:16:19] <keturn>
those repos are probably pre-darcs 2.0
- [00:16:33] <yangman>
theoretically. but, git Works for Me. the intention was to fork, so I had no reason to stay with Darcs
- [00:16:39] <keturn>
yangman: did you migrate the whole history?
- [00:17:14] <yangman>
keturn: only for 2.x branch, and as best a history as the tool would give me
- [00:17:27] <yangman>
http://yangman.ca/git/python-openid/
- [00:17:28] <ronny>
keturn: what repo format are you using?
- [00:18:04] <yangman>
I think I wiped some of the tags, but retrained as much as I could
- [00:19:02] <keturn>
darcs query repo tells me darcs-1.0
- [00:19:33] <ronny>
oh
- [00:19:37] <ronny>
thats the old slow one
- [00:19:46] <ronny>
you might want to upgrade it
- [00:20:04] <ronny>
that allows neat things like only copying pristine instead of all patches
- [00:21:18] <ronny>
lazy repos ftw
- [00:22:20] <ronny>
how do i run the testsuite?
- [00:22:59] <keturn>
admin/runtests
- [00:23:33] <ronny>
oh damn, unittest
- [00:24:43] <ronny>
oh, some unittests fail here, cause im in a network where the provider wont supply dns errors
- [00:25:24] <ronny>
own bind instances ftw
- [00:25:57] <keturn>
neat.
- [00:26:39] <keturn>
I don't have admin access to openidenabled.com anymore, so I can't migrate the upstream repo format
- [00:27:02] <ronny>
tell an admin?
- [00:28:16] <keturn>
yeah. I'm a little surprised they haven't switched already, but then, looking at the changelog, the codebase hasn't exactly been very active lately.
- [00:28:19] <ronny>
hmm, shouldnt the httplib2 fetcher be somewhere in createHTTPFetcher, like before testing for curl?
- [00:33:55] <keturn>
maybe? but it looks like the primary benefit of that fetcher is that it can caching, but in order for it to do so you probably need to explicitly construct it with a cache location.
- [00:37:51] <ronny>
it generally worked better than urllib
- [00:45:22] <ronny>
hmm
- [00:45:36] <ronny>
i feel like reimplementation is the way to go
- [00:46:29] <keturn>
okay, have fun, see you next year :)
- [00:49:33] <ronny>
keturn: i dont see a way to get myself working on this while keeping that api
- [00:54:05] <keturn>
I guess I don't get yet where the barrier is. The only environment I've found where it really doesn't work is async environments like Twisted, where you essentially have to make a thread outside the framework to use the python-openid discovery code
- [00:54:25] <keturn>
but werkzeug isn't async, afaik
- [00:58:19] <ronny>
keturn: im a sucker for good apis, and anything i do for fun, has to be on good api's
- [01:04:43] <yangman>
the discovery should really just be a separate Yadis library. the rest of OpenID parts don't care how data is coming or leaving
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- [01:24:18] <keturn>
yangman: it was for a while. but then nobody else used that protocol but OpenID, and managing two libraries was harder than managing one.
- [01:25:17] <ronny>
hmm, what exactly is yardis actually?
- [01:27:17] <yangman>
Yadis. it's a service discovery protocol
- [01:29:31] <ronny>
hmm
- [01:29:50] <ronny>
sounds like yet another thing that should be xmpp based
- [01:30:12] <yangman>
huh?
- [01:31:23] <ronny>
xmpp also has service discovery
- [01:31:30] <ronny>
among many other nice features
- [01:31:45] <yangman>
Yadis itself is fairly light weight
- [01:32:19] <yangman>
and, iirc, some semantics around the content of retrieved XRDS
- [01:32:50] <ronny>
hmm, if its all about discovert, take a look at XEP-0030 vs yadis
- [01:33:36] <yangman>
right, but you're talking about an extension onto a protcol that's unsuitable by its very nature
- [01:38:24] <ronny>
yangman: by now xmpp should be very suitable, since modern webapps are actually message/event based
- [01:38:41] <yangman>
but Yadis isn't one
- [01:38:51] <yangman>
it's strictly fetch resource, and interpret it
- [01:39:42] <ronny>
well, xmpp already has a discovery protocol that seems much more simple and powerfull than yadis
- [01:39:50] <ronny>
and its also request/response based
- [01:41:47] <yangman>
I'm not sure if "needs XMPP server" qualifies it as simpler
- [01:48:10] <ronny>
yangman: http, xmpp, both suck, but xmpp kicks ass as the world gets more & more into messages instead of serial request/response
- [01:48:47] <yangman>
that's a tangential issue, I think
- [01:50:14] <yangman>
it's not really a discussion I want to get into, but there's trade offs for everything. in this case, the tradeoff for using XMPP is to entirely avoid the main motivation for Yadis
- [01:50:28] <yangman>
s/avoid/abandon/
- [01:50:40] <ronny>
whats the main motivation for yadis/
- [01:51:25] <yangman>
discover potential authentication services given only a URL (assuming HTTP environment, of course)
- [01:51:56] <yangman>
were the URL is the identity to authenticate
- [01:53:16] <ronny>
i see, that need doesnt exist in xmpp
- [01:53:24] <yangman>
exactly
- [01:54:02] <ronny>
well, tbh im not a fan of http at all
- [01:54:20] <ronny>
its a mess that mostly gets abused these days
- [01:54:22] <yangman>
it works just fine for what it was designed to do
- [01:55:09] <ronny>
yangman: well, http is not a messaging system, its ressource representation transfer
- [01:55:25] <yangman>
exactly, again
- [01:56:58] <ronny>
the most recent abuse is websocket
- [01:57:02] <ronny>
also there is comet
- [01:58:49] <ronny>
oh damn, 0300 already
- [01:58:51] <ronny>
good night
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- [02:21:21] <keturn>
ok, I'll totally agree with you that doing what we're doing with the Internet today, HTTP is a pretty horrible thing to do it with
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- [16:28:58] <salty-horse>
hi. there are several wordpress plugins that refer to something called OpenAvatar at the domain www.openvatar.com which is now dead. do you know it? was it the same as http://paulisageek.com/openidavatar/ ?
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