IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-01-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:01:25] * rawtext (n=rawtext@pool-68-160-8-234.bos.east.verizon.net) has joined #microformats
  2. [00:01:27] <factoryjoe> i think i'm going emo
  3. [00:02:54] <kingryan> emo's cool
  4. [00:02:59] <kingryan> just don't get too much of it
  5. [00:04:11] <factoryjoe> isn't that the po... nevermind
  6. [00:04:13] <factoryjoe> i'm disaffected
  7. [00:04:23] <kingryan> thata boy!
  8. [00:05:13] <cgriego> "we need a microformat for that"
  9. [00:05:19] <bkdelong> So where does this leave the whole User Profile discussion, factoryjoe - you going to post a followup on the list?
  10. [00:05:54] <factoryjoe> i did, sort of
  11. [00:06:01] <factoryjoe> basically, the answer is
  12. [00:06:05] <factoryjoe> do whatcha want
  13. [00:06:10] <factoryjoe> then codify if it catches on
  14. [00:06:25] <kingryan> exactly
  15. [00:06:50] <kingryan> the opposite of other standards efforts
  16. [00:06:58] <kingryan> where its codify and then see if it catches on
  17. [00:07:11] <factoryjoe> yeah
  18. [00:07:14] <factoryjoe> which i'm fine with
  19. [00:07:18] <factoryjoe> i think i was asking for help
  20. [00:07:23] <factoryjoe> figuring out what to start with
  21. [00:07:31] <factoryjoe> rel=photos seems better than class=photos
  22. [00:07:42] <factoryjoe> i'm not asking for a definitive "this is a microformat" answer
  23. [00:07:56] <factoryjoe> but rather an answer to "does this seem like a reasonable approach in the meantime?"
  24. [00:08:23] <kingryan> sure, it does
  25. [00:10:47] <bkdelong> ARGH. The wiki is telling me I'm not specifying a valid username and I ammmm.
  26. [00:12:33] <cgriego> Are You Capitalizing The First Letter Because I Got Confused About That.
  27. [00:12:51] <bkdelong> Nope. Only on my real name.
  28. [00:20:19] <bkdelong> kingryan, tantek - you still around? Trying to get a login on the wiki to add some of these adr examples.
  29. [00:20:27] <kingryan> I am
  30. [00:20:29] <tantek> bk, see FAQ
  31. [00:20:32] <tantek> :)
  32. [00:20:50] <bkdelong> yeah, lookin at it now.
  33. [00:21:16] <bkdelong> good grief. Can't believe I missed that
  34. [00:21:20] <kingryan> http://microformats.org/wiki/faq#wiki_specific_questions
  35. [00:21:22] <kingryan> :D
  36. [00:21:33] <kingryan> you're not the only one
  37. [00:24:30] <mfbot> [[adr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr&diff=0&oldid=4174 * B.K. DeLong * (+18) More Examples -
  38. [00:45:42] <mfbot> [[adr-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/adr-examples * B.K. DeLong * (+1139) More examples of the ADR microformat -
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  41. [01:00:13] <mfbot> [[adr-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr-examples&diff=0&oldid=4175 * B.K. DeLong * (+156)
  42. [01:01:04] <mfbot> [[adr-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr-examples&diff=0&oldid=4176 * B.K. DeLong * (+8)
  43. [01:03:11] <mfbot> [[adr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr&diff=0&oldid=4177 * B.K. DeLong * (+72) More Examples -
  44. [01:05:17] <mfbot> [[adr-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr-examples&diff=0&oldid=4178 * B.K. DeLong * (+68)
  45. [01:07:03] * keithalexander (n=keithale@87.113.15.232.bbplus.pte-ag1.dyn.plus.net) Quit ()
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  50. [01:19:58] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  51. [01:25:03] <mfbot> [[adr-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr-examples&diff=0&oldid=4179 * B.K. DeLong * (+55)
  52. [01:26:24] <mfbot> [[adr-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr-examples&diff=0&oldid=4180 * B.K. DeLong * (+41)
  53. [01:42:05] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-faq&diff=0&oldid=4181 * B.K. DeLong * (+78) Q&A -
  54. [01:45:12] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-faq&diff=0&oldid=4182 * B.K. DeLong * (+124) Q&A -
  55. [01:45:48] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-faq&diff=0&oldid=4183 * B.K. DeLong * (-1) Q&A -
  56. [01:50:07] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@pcp09800352pcs.union01.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
  57. [01:52:04] <mfbot> [[User:ChrisMessina]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:ChrisMessina * Chris Messina * (+135)
  58. [01:53:29] * tara (n=tara@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  59. [01:53:55] <mfbot> [[to-do]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=4184 * RyanKing * (-167) Greasemonkey versions -
  60. [01:56:56] <mfbot> [[User:B.K. DeLong]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/User:B.K._DeLong * B.K. DeLong * (+179) User: B.K. DeLong -
  61. [01:58:42] <tara> hello
  62. [02:00:09] <bkdelong_> lo
  63. [02:00:25] <tantek> hi tara!
  64. [02:01:47] <factoryjoe> threesome?
  65. [02:01:51] <factoryjoe> ooops
  66. [02:01:58] <tara> hey
  67. [02:01:59] <bkdelong_> oi
  68. [02:01:59] <factoryjoe> wrong channels
  69. [02:02:03] <factoryjoe> err
  70. [02:02:09] <factoryjoe> where's dotben?
  71. [02:02:15] <factoryjoe> we could turn this into a real backchannel
  72. [02:03:08] <tara> well, if Tantek doesn't talk with me soon, I'm definitely calling bullshit. ;)
  73. [02:03:39] <factoryjoe> haha
  74. [02:07:56] * tara (n=tara@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) Quit ()
  75. [02:08:32] <factoryjoe> tantek: you scared her off!
  76. [02:09:07] <bkdelong_> doh.
  77. [02:10:52] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-faq&diff=0&oldid=4185 * B.K. DeLong * (+210) Q&A -
  78. [02:16:24] <tantek> i'm here
  79. [02:17:00] <bkdelong_> Missed her.
  80. [02:18:18] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-faq&diff=0&oldid=4186 * B.K. DeLong * (+120) Q&A -
  81. [02:24:15] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4187 * B.K. DeLong * (+435) General Questions -
  82. [02:24:23] * keithalexander (n=keithale@87.113.15.232.bbplus.pte-ag1.dyn.plus.net) Quit ()
  83. [02:31:30] * tara (n=tara@dsl081-246-197.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  84. [02:31:36] <factoryjoe> for ryan: http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2006/01/16/miles-of-semantic-markup-before-microformats/
  85. [02:31:42] <factoryjoe> ok, i'm out
  86. [02:31:44] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) Quit ()
  87. [02:33:20] * tara (n=tara@dsl081-246-197.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has left #microformats
  88. [02:42:42] <kingryan> how appropriate, chris and tara leaving together
  89. [03:02:51] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
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  103. [08:29:33] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
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  111. [13:07:41] <bkdelong> Morning, all.
  112. [13:13:43] <timb> and a good morning to you
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  124. [15:57:37] <mfbot> [[microformats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=microformats&diff=0&oldid=4188 * ScottReynen * (+76) the microformats principles -
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  127. [16:28:39] <bkdelong> I should probably read the documentation but I'm doing too many things at once. Do hCard and hCalendar have "profiles" I need to reference in the <head> element like XFN?
  128. [16:29:06] <RobertBachmann> yes, these profiles are recommended.
  129. [16:29:56] <bkdelong> k. and for multiple profiles, I do: <head profile="http://profile1/ http://profile2"> i.e. seperated with whitespace as per the HTML 4.01 spec....
  130. [16:30:46] <RobertBachmann> yes.
  131. [16:31:16] <bkdelong> Thx. :)
  132. [16:31:58] <RobertBachmann> currently there is no profile for hcalendar, only for hcard.
  133. [16:32:26] <bkdelong> ah. gotcha.
  134. [16:32:33] <bkdelong> What about adr?
  135. [16:32:46] <bkdelong> Tho I know it's a work-in-progress....
  136. [16:33:49] <RobertBachmann> but it (hcalendar-profile) is listed on <http://microformats.org/wiki/to-do#profiles>.
  137. [16:33:49] <RobertBachmann> adr: has no profile yet.
  138. [16:34:39] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RobertBachmann * (+0) deleted "hcalendar-profile": Spam
  139. [16:58:26] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=4189 * GeneMcCulley * (+186) Examples -
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  148. [18:39:32] <factoryjoe> #mashpit
  149. [19:03:17] * bewest|work is now known as bewest|lunch
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  152. [19:06:04] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  153. [19:06:19] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
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  155. [19:06:58] <kingryan> hey everyone
  156. [19:07:09] <kingryan> uh oh, cee-dub
  157. [19:07:14] <cee-dub> haha
  158. [19:07:18] <cee-dub> why uh-oh?
  159. [19:08:14] <kingryan> j/k
  160. [19:16:02] <kingryan> cee-dub, you need to join #banc
  161. [19:17:02] <cee-dub> so few people in there
  162. [19:17:41] <bkdelong> Is there a rel or rev for identifying someone's profile on a someone network? i.e. http://www.orkut.com/Profile.aspx?uid=10014040891428053697 or http://people.tribe.net/bkdelong ; or would that just be rel="me" ?
  163. [19:18:50] <kingryan> rel="me", yes
  164. [19:19:10] <bkdelong> kee-doke.
  165. [19:19:40] <kingryan> I do precisely that on http://theryanking.com/blog/
  166. [19:20:23] * valmont (n=chrishol@germany.pspdev.pas.earthlink.net) has joined #microformats
  167. [19:21:19] <bkdelong> I'm doing a big post on social networks and I'm looking for as many things I can markup as possible.
  168. [19:21:30] <kingryan> cool
  169. [19:21:41] <kingryan> I assume you've read all of http://gmpg.org/xfn/ ?
  170. [19:22:10] <bkdelong> Yup.
  171. [19:22:43] <bkdelong> Not just XFN....but other standard and proposed microformats.
  172. [19:23:58] <cee-dub> how soon will this post be available?
  173. [19:24:52] <bkdelong> In about 5 seconds
  174. [19:25:09] <cee-dub> link?
  175. [19:25:26] <bkdelong> ok, I lied. Hang on. :)
  176. [19:25:39] <cee-dub> of course... when you're ready :)
  177. [19:25:45] <bkdelong> http://www.brain-stream.com/blog/archives/001888.html
  178. [19:27:37] <kingryan> ah, is outputthis.org the old reblg.com ?
  179. [19:27:49] <bkdelong> Heck if I know.
  180. [19:28:20] <bkdelong> I just came across it when I checked out structuredblogging the other day. I got all excited but my SB plugin says it's "not enabled yet".
  181. [19:30:26] <kingryan> reminds me of reblg, but may not be related
  182. [19:30:36] <kingryan> they both appear to be vapor(ish)
  183. [19:31:08] <bkdelong> alas.
  184. [19:31:31] <kingryan> well, in the case of reblg, at least, I think its destined to always be vapor
  185. [19:32:18] <cee-dub> I'm just happy that structured blogging joined up with microformats
  186. [19:32:23] <cee-dub> no need for splintering
  187. [19:32:36] <kingryan> they've always been invited
  188. [19:32:51] <cee-dub> of course, they may have just started without knowing about microformats
  189. [19:33:01] <kingryan> no, they've always known
  190. [19:33:22] <bkdelong> I'm really disappointed with the MT plugin - it assumes people structure their postings very rigidly.. It's too linear
  191. [19:33:24] <kingryan> but there's just been personal conflict
  192. [19:33:40] <cee-dub> ah, I obviously don't know the whole story
  193. [19:34:03] <kingryan> right, bkdelong, one of the reasons I haven't created many authoring tools is that its very difficult to create anything that's going to be widely useful
  194. [19:34:12] <kingryan> everyone thinks about their writing/content differently
  195. [19:34:22] <kingryan> no, cee-dub, there's a lot of history there
  196. [19:35:28] * bewest|lunch is now known as bewest|work
  197. [19:35:57] <bkdelong> So...any thoughts on that post.....what else can I markup in it?
  198. [19:36:43] <kingryan> re: uniqueness of schools...
  199. [19:36:49] <kingryan> aren't URLs sufficient?
  200. [19:37:08] <kingryan> I attend http://usfca.edu/
  201. [19:37:12] <kingryan> unambiguous, right?
  202. [19:37:28] <bkdelong> True.....but MySpace didn't allow for it.
  203. [19:37:32] <kingryan> have you seen rhyzomatic?
  204. [19:37:34] <bewest|work> MT plugin?
  205. [19:37:44] <bkdelong> and some secondary schools don't have Web pages.
  206. [19:37:57] <bkdelong> Not yet - was checking out the wiki but haven't seen the site yet.
  207. [19:38:01] <kingryan> true, bkdelong
  208. [19:38:06] <bkdelong> bewest|work: Yup.
  209. [19:38:13] <bkdelong> bewest|work: MovableType
  210. [19:38:33] <kingryan> ?whois factoryjoe
  211. [19:38:41] <kingryan> ?define factoryjoe
  212. [19:38:44] <kingryan> ah, no jibot
  213. [19:38:44] <bkdelong> I didn;t see Chris
  214. [19:38:48] * dmose (n=dmose@dsl081-050-187.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ("Leaving")
  215. [19:39:00] <kingryan> I'm trying to find the url for rhyzomatic
  216. [19:39:03] <bkdelong> ah
  217. [19:39:07] <kingryan> its in chris's description
  218. [19:41:19] <bewest|work> kingryan: I think our discussion was cut short yesterday, I didn't see your message for several minutes, and then I couldn't seem to message properly
  219. [19:41:19] <kingryan> bkdelong, here's the plan for rhyzomatic: http://flickr.com/photos/factoryjoe/sets/1313120/
  220. [19:41:57] <kingryan> ah
  221. [19:42:07] <bewest|work> interesting
  222. [19:42:22] <kingryan> the idea is to be like an xfn hub
  223. [19:42:45] <kingryan> a central place for looking up people's profiles on various networks
  224. [19:43:14] <bkdelong> nice.
  225. [19:44:14] <kingryan> not sure how far along actual implementation is
  226. [19:44:25] <kingryan> but I've been working w/ chris on how to microformat everything
  227. [19:44:39] <kingryan> (its also an experiement in "can your website be your api?")
  228. [19:45:44] <bewest|work> interesting experiment
  229. [19:46:15] <kingryan> ref: http://tantek.com/presentations/20040928sdforumws/semantic-xhtml.html
  230. [19:47:16] <bkdelong> Quite...
  231. [19:47:20] <bewest|work> oo haven't seen this yet
  232. [19:47:27] <bkdelong> Exactally what I'm looking for.
  233. [19:47:59] <kingryan> http://microformats.org/wiki/presentations is a good resource, esp. if you go back to 2004
  234. [19:48:06] <kingryan> for the early, fundamental stuff
  235. [19:49:03] <bkdelong> BTW, for 2006, we need to look at beefing up Vote-Link. or at least encouraging it again.
  236. [19:49:49] <kingryan> I'd vote for encouraging useage first
  237. [19:50:06] <kingryan> vote-for*
  238. [19:51:22] <bkdelong> I think there was a lot of use before. But as soon as I look at the ballot initiatives and who is up for election, I'll do a post on it and see if I can spread it via a LiveJournal meme.
  239. [19:52:10] <kingryan> cool
  240. [19:53:46] <bkdelong> Actually, that's a good idea...if we can get all the livejournal/myspace folk to start memeing it around, it could become quite popular, very easily.
  241. [19:53:55] <kingryan> yeah
  242. [19:54:09] <kingryan> and build some tools for tracking/mining the votes
  243. [19:54:23] <bkdelong> Well, Technorati already does
  244. [19:54:41] <bkdelong> Or at least did for a previous election....2004?
  245. [19:54:46] <kingryan> yeah
  246. [19:54:55] <kingryan> and we use them for authority calculations
  247. [19:55:06] <kingryan> ie, we don't count vote-against and vote-abstain
  248. [19:55:37] <bkdelong> Ah
  249. [19:56:38] <kingryan> we also don't count rel="nofollow" links
  250. [19:58:02] <bkdelong> It would be interesting to add a field for what election someone is running in and maybe a date-stamp. Like MA Governor Romney ran for election a few years ago. But he's considering a run for President in 2008. It would be good to distinguish. Also to get some examples for ballot initives or even how the blogging community supports various proposed legislation in the House and Senate.
  251. [19:58:19] <bkdelong> Now THAT would be a fascinating thing to watch - let the PEOPLE vote on legislation ;)
  252. [19:58:32] <bkdelong> virtually, that is.
  253. [19:59:06] <kingryan> some of the disambiguation can be done just by picking the right url
  254. [19:59:34] <kingryan> so vote-for romneyforpresident2008.com is not the same as vote-for romneyformayor.com
  255. [19:59:37] <kingryan> right?
  256. [20:00:15] <bkdelong> true but I'm thinking in blogging terms as not every elected official has URLs.
  257. [20:00:21] <bkdelong> or candidate, that is.
  258. [20:00:36] <kingryan> that's possibly true
  259. [20:00:41] <bkdelong> and re: legislation.....people discuss pending stuff all the time on blogs. Being able to mark that up would rock.
  260. [20:00:49] <kingryan> but do candidates who don't have urls get blogged about?
  261. [20:01:38] <bkdelong> I blogged about my local election a few times...specifically how I was annoyed by my candidate's lack of Web sites.
  262. [20:02:09] <kingryan> ah
  263. [20:02:15] <bkdelong> I also blogged about my State Rep who was running again but only had a crappy basic site at the State House. I don't consider that an election site.
  264. [20:02:29] <kingryan> yeah
  265. [20:33:03] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=4190 * RyanKing * (-151) Microformats Wiki - just superficial cleanups
  266. [20:33:49] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=4191 * RyanKing * (+35) Introduction - adding link to mailing list
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  275. [21:34:57] <mfbot> [[robots-exclusion]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=robots-exclusion&diff=0&oldid=4192 * RyanKing * (+153) Suitability as a microformat -
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  278. [21:45:58] <mfbot> [[class-design-pattern]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=class-design-pattern&diff=0&oldid=4193 * RyanKing * (-15) How to use it - cleaned up verbiage
  279. [21:48:14] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=4194 * RyanKing * (+0) Exploratory discussions - sorted list
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  281. [21:53:50] <mfbot> [[rel-enclosure]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-enclosure&diff=0&oldid=4195 * RyanKing * (-3) Informative References - updated atom reference to the RFC
  282. [22:02:50] * bewest|work (n=bewest@pcp0011022684pcs.midltn01.nj.comcast.net) Quit ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
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  287. [22:35:02] <mfbot> [[hCalendar]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hCalendar * RyanKing * (+23)
  288. [22:35:38] <mfbot> [[xFolk]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/xFolk * RyanKing * (+19)
  289. [22:42:04] <mfbot> [[use]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/use * RyanKing * (+1586) gettin the ball rolling
  290. [22:45:31] <mfbot> [[irc]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=4196 * RyanKing * (+68) added a link to logs
  291. [22:51:17] <mfbot> [[use]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=use&diff=0&oldid=4197 * ScottReynen * (+5) So you wanna use microformats? -
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  294. [23:28:59] <mfbot> [[use]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=use&diff=0&oldid=4198 * Tantek * (+301) So you wanna use microformats? -
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  297. [23:54:55] <factoryjoe> where's the spec for hcal to do items?
  298. [23:57:15] <mfbot> [[hresume]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=4199 * RyanKing * (+812) just getting started
  299. [23:57:24] <kingryan> http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar
  300. [23:57:32] <kingryan> some examples at http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-examples
  301. [23:57:43] * kingryan thought that area of the spec hasn't been exercised much
  302. [23:58:22] <bkdelong> nrn. I'll chat on citations when I get back
  303. [23:58:33] <bkdelong> er....brb

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