IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-01-20
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [00:21:03] <tantek>
Kevin that URL says nothing about the rel attribute
- [00:21:09] <tantek>
b.k. asked:
- [00:21:43] <tantek>
"Does anyone know where LiveJournal details the extent of their support for the rel attribute?"
- [00:23:37] <mfbot>
[[rel-tag]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag&diff=0&oldid=4249 * Tantek * (+175) added LJ
- [00:24:15] <tantek>
that's about as much as I found. if anyone finds anything else, please add it to the wiki
- [00:24:18] <tantek>
thanks1
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- [00:34:17] <bkdelong>
Thanks, Tantek. The implementation does seem vague. I'm going to look through and possibly post in LJ-Dev for further details.
- [00:34:48] <bkdelong>
And the guy who added LJFind is apparently launching a microformat-enabled LJ full text search
- [00:39:58] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=4250 * Tantek * (+165) added code4lib
- [00:40:44] <bkdelong>
Have we added a means of adding hReview markup to Amazon.com review entrires? I thought I saw something about that but can't find it.
- [00:43:32] <kingryan_>
bkdelong, not that I know of
- [00:44:03] <bkdelong>
ah ok.
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- [00:45:29] <bkdelong>
Hey - is it possible to create a microformatlet? That is, instead of reference a profile in the HEAD element, reference it inline a document? That would make it easier to alert parsers to microformat data in "third party sites" that users have limited control of.....like Amazon.com
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- [00:46:07] <kingryan>
bkdelong, not currently, but there's been discussion
- [00:46:22] <bkdelong>
Anything on the wiki about it yet?
- [00:46:25] <kingryan>
here, I think: http://microformats.org/wiki/xmdp-issues
- [00:46:33] <bkdelong>
k
- [00:47:15] <tantek_>
actually that's not even an issue
- [00:47:22] <tantek_>
what b.k. is talking about is already part of XMDP
- [00:47:31] <tantek_>
b.k. check it: http://gmpg.org/xmdp/
- [00:47:44] <bkdelong>
ah cool.
- [00:48:00] <bkdelong>
So I can microformat my Amazon reviews. Cool
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- [00:49:31] <bkdelong>
hrm...wait. So where does it tell me where to reference a profile inline in a document? Looks like I still have to use the HEAD element. Would I have to do a Definition List for every inline use of a Microformat?
- [00:50:23] <kingryan>
no
- [00:50:32] <tantek_>
oh, sorry i missed that key word *inline*
- [00:50:36] <tantek_>
right
- [00:50:38] <tantek_>
being looked into
- [00:50:40] <bkdelong>
;)
- [00:50:41] <kingryan>
try this: http://microformats.org/wiki/xmdp-brainstorming
- [00:50:45] <kingryan>
for discussion
- [00:50:47] <tantek_>
current favorite candidate is
- [00:51:25] <tantek_>
This document uses the <a href="http://gmpg.org/xfn/11" rel="profile">XFN profile</a>
- [00:52:24] <bkdelong>
actually, I don't think I can even markup my Amazon review anyway. It would get stripped out. Blast....they would have to do it.
- [00:52:35] <bkdelong>
Certainly would give us massive adoption of hReview though :)
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- [01:54:39] <tantek>
where r u ryan?
- [01:54:44] <tantek>
ok, we're off to 21A
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- [02:39:27] <tantek>
welcome sexygirl153 and cee-dub!
- [02:39:58] <bkdelong>
Is there another mashpit I'm missing? ;)
- [02:40:23] <tantek>
media-info / fotonotes brainstorming dinner etc.
- [02:40:31] <bkdelong>
cool
- [02:40:53] <bkdelong>
Is Niall there? I'm curious what this wordpress.root thing is
- [02:41:32] <tantek>
Niall is at another dinner
- [02:41:38] <tantek>
what wordpress.root thing?
- [02:41:53] <bkdelong>
hang on....lemme find the reference
- [02:42:40] <bkdelong>
http://scripting.wordpress.com/2006/01/19/niall-and-i-are-heading-over-to-sixapart-2/
- [02:45:38] <tantek>
btw, media-info: http://microformats.org/wiki/media-info-examples
- [02:46:09] <bkdelong>
Another offtopic bit - do we have any sort of wishlist microformat?
- [02:46:18] <bkdelong>
rather an idea or brainstorm for one?
- [02:46:29] <tantek>
wishlist = XOXO list of wish items
- [02:46:37] <bkdelong>
cool
- [02:46:39] <tantek>
now, wish item is probably very similar to a listing
- [02:46:53] <tantek>
see http://microformats.org/wiki/listing-examples etc.
- [02:47:33] <tantek>
bk. that wp.r thing sounds odd
- [02:47:53] <bkdelong>
Was reading a Danny Ayers post...which is where the wishlist thing came from: http://dannyayers.com/archives/2006/01/19/personal-attention-aggregator-please/
- [02:48:07] <bkdelong>
Yeah, when I saw Wordpress working in MT, that piqued my interest.
- [02:48:31] <tantek>
i'm not even sure what that means
- [02:48:38] <tantek>
a wish list item is basically a want ad
- [02:51:06] <bkdelong>
(Sorry for the disjointed language...when I'm brainstorming I cant yet articulate what's going on in my head. Hence my desire for subvocal-recognition. ;) )
- [02:52:21] <tantek>
is there any semantic difference between putting something on a public wishlist and posting a want ad for something for free?
- [02:52:59] <bkdelong>
good question....
- [02:53:41] <bkdelong>
Not really except that want ads are usually single items and wishlists are an aggregate.
- [02:55:11] <bkdelong>
wishlists are often contextulized by gift-giving events - baby shower, wedding shower, christmas/kwanzaa/hanukkah , birthdays, anniversaries, valentine's day
- [02:56:06] <bkdelong>
and with a wishlist, you're more apt to prioritize your level of interest in each item, (at least....thanks to Amazon)
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- [03:04:57] <tantek>
actually, that prioritization is per item
- [03:05:01] <tantek>
not relative between items
- [03:05:09] <tantek>
so ok, that's a good distinction
- [03:05:23] <tantek>
wish list item = want ad + level-of-interest
- [03:05:30] <tantek>
and the event point is good also
- [03:05:31] <tantek>
so
- [03:05:53] <tantek>
wish list = optional-related-event + XOXO list of wish list items
- [03:06:17] <tantek>
ok, this is definitely different/interesting enough to deserve capturing on a wiki page or two
- [03:06:21] <tantek>
want to start bk?
- [03:06:40] <tantek>
http://microformats.org/wiki/wish-list-examples
- [03:06:45] <tantek>
http://microformats.org/wiki/wish-list-item-examples
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- [03:07:11] <tantek>
and note that a wish-list-item is very much like a want ad *listing* (link to listing-examples)
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- [03:22:32] <tara>
well...since we are trying to meet as a significantly larger group than I anticipated in a significantly louder space than I anticipated, we'll be partially participating in this meeting (microformats meets the jpg) in IRC...;)
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- [03:34:44] <tara>
hi enric
- [03:34:53] <Enric>
Hey babe!
- [03:34:53] <tara>
hey tantek
- [03:35:03] <tantek>
hey tara :p
- [03:35:14] <Enric>
8)
- [03:35:25] <tantek>
(tara is sitting nearly across from me for those in the ether)
- [03:35:31] <tara>
lol
- [03:35:35] <Enric>
so we can say things here we wouldn't in person ;)
- [03:35:39] <tara>
we're being san fransocial
- [03:35:45] <tara>
you two are hawt
- [03:36:06] <tantek>
this is what happens when you meet in person and it is too loud to talk in person
- [03:36:09] <tantek>
you go to irc
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- [03:37:10] <tara>
What is really interesting about this is that we are in the same space, so if we need to read body language, we can.
- [03:37:34] <tara>
For example, when Tantek uses the cut cut sign, I know to stop typing
- [03:37:49] <tara>
Otherwise, I would just keep going
- [03:37:49] <Enric>
This actually works quite well...you can say things w/o waiting for a moment when someone has attention to you...
- [03:37:51] * tantek has not yet used the cut sign.
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- [03:38:10] * Enric looks around
- [03:38:18] <tara>
hey sexygirl153
- [03:38:24] <sexygirl153>
hey tara
- [03:38:54] <tara>
loving it
- [03:39:06] * tantek changes topic to 'media-info / fotonotes discussion || add yourself to http://microformats.org/wiki/irc || http://www.digital-web.com/articles/microformats_primer/ | Channel is logged: http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot'
- [03:39:08] * gregelin (n=chatzill@adsl-71-141-26-195.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) has joined #microformats
- [03:39:13] <gregelin>
Heh.
- [03:39:28] <tantek>
hi greg
- [03:39:34] <gregelin>
Hi tantek.
- [03:39:37] <sexygirl153>
hi greg
- [03:39:37] <tara>
hey gregelin
- [03:39:42] <gregelin>
Hi.
- [03:39:56] <tantek>
hey termie, could you invite jibot in here?
- [03:40:01] <bewest|symphony>
tantek: I was curious what kind of system you use for your home page?
- [03:40:08] <gregelin>
Hi everyone.
- [03:40:09] <tantek>
"system"?
- [03:40:10] <bewest|symphony>
tantek: do you use a blogging platform or did you roll your own?
- [03:41:04] <bewest|symphony>
I looked for a tell tale generator tag and a colophon but came up short
- [03:41:17] <tantek>
bewest - see: http://tantek.com/log/2003/04.html#L20030423t1659
- [03:42:26] <Enric>
I knew someone who wrote HTML by hand...I did that for awhile and got used to it...
- [03:43:42] <bewest|symphony>
interesting... I actually am more comfortable writing the html myself
- [03:44:56] <bewest|symphony>
but I'm not interested in managing the stuff that should be the same
- [03:45:28] <bewest|symphony>
such as headers
- [03:45:44] <tantek>
indeed
- [03:45:56] <tantek>
so many folks end up writing their own lightweight template systems and templates
- [03:46:20] <bewest|symphony>
tantek: so you do have a lightweight cms?
- [03:46:40] <tantek>
i certainly wouldn't call it a cms
- [03:47:10] <bewest|symphony>
tantek: do you use preprocessing, or on the fly inclusion?
- [03:47:21] <tantek>
static files
- [03:47:22] <tara>
As people are finished eating, please allow me to direct your attention to the following link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/missrogue/88695404/
- [03:47:35] <tara>
Now, what happened here?
- [03:47:39] <tara>
Okay...let me explain
- [03:47:53] <tara>
I uploaded a jpg, stolen shamelessly from a google image search
- [03:48:15] <tara>
Never tagged it
- [03:48:23] <bewest|symphony>
so I'm curious: is adding a page to the site roughly the same amount of work as adding a blog post?
- [03:48:40] <bewest|symphony>
and what automatic mechanism, if any, is used to organize the new blog post?
- [03:49:00] <bewest|symphony>
I'm debating strategies for my own site, and have admired yours for some time
- [03:49:15] <tara>
Here is the story: http://www.flickr.com/photos/missrogue/88133619/ (once again flickerized)
- [03:50:20] <tantek>
bewest, i'm not sure i have much to admire there. they're all static files on an ftp server, generated with some hard-coded templates and a wizard-like program
- [03:51:35] <tantek>
combined with usenet style text markup interpretation
- [03:51:40] <tantek>
tara, that is very interesting
- [03:52:00] <tara>
Here is a shot of the EXIF data in Photoshop (although I corrupted it by removing the Corbis Copyright information): http://www.flickr.com/photos/missrogue/88790955/
- [03:52:06] <tantek>
cal says the tags were auto-extracted from the IPTC chunk in the JPEG
- [03:52:10] <tara>
yes
- [03:52:15] <tantek>
rather than the EXIF
- [03:52:18] <tara>
oh
- [03:52:20] <tara>
hmmmm
- [03:52:22] <tara>
k
- [03:52:50] <tara>
I don't know how that works, but, after I saw that, I started wondering why tagging photos in riya couldn't work the same way?
- [03:53:29] <tantek>
it could
- [03:53:31] <tara>
That when I do all of the work tagging my photos, why I couldn't bring those tags to my blog posts, my flickr account, my iphoto
- [03:53:38] <tantek>
a photoservice could *add* tags to the IPTC as well
- [03:53:43] <tara>
so, that's why I wanted to meet
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- [03:54:00] <tara>
and discuss how the best way of going about this is
- [03:54:36] <tantek>
well, invisible/embedded metadata like IPTC is a bit orthogonal to microformats
- [03:54:39] <gregelin_>
(test)
- [03:54:46] <tara>
hi gregelin_
- [03:54:58] <gregelin_>
(moving over to colloquy...)
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- [03:55:24] * gregelin_ is now known as gregelin
- [03:55:47] <tara>
That image is a Corbis image
- [03:56:06] <tara>
Which means to me that they've employed a lot of underpaid data monkeys to input all of that stuff
- [03:56:16] <tantek>
yes
- [03:56:27] <sexygirl153>
it's auto-pop'd from their database into iptc blocks
- [03:56:30] <gregelin>
Tara, you and I discussed three things in relation to microformats: 1) Notes 2) Tags and 3) EXIF.
- [03:56:37] <tara>
yes
- [03:56:40] <sexygirl153>
and xmp blocks by the look of things
- [03:57:02] <tantek>
but i'm much more interested in what people actually publish visibly on the web around photos and other media - and that's where microformats can help
- [03:57:03] <tara>
sexygirl153 I'll direct you to the original image
- [03:57:04] <Enric>
is there a command for sending a private msg?
- [03:57:06] <gregelin>
maybe we should first define if we are talking about all these for microformats.
- [03:57:13] <sexygirl153>
tara - i saw it
- [03:57:14] <tantek>
enric, /msg nick
- [03:57:19] <Enric>
thanks
- [03:57:27] <tara>
k
- [03:57:27] <gregelin>
examples, tantek?
- [03:58:43] <tantek>
greg, precisely
- [03:58:48] <tantek>
we have to start with examples
- [04:00:00] * josh____ (n=josh@adsl-71-141-26-195.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) has joined #microformats
- [04:01:41] <tantek>
there was an initial attempt for media metadata in general which spiraled out of control / overboard
- [04:01:41] <tara>
hi josh__
- [04:01:41] <josh____>
hey akk
- [04:01:41] <josh____>
all
- [04:01:41] <tara>
hi josh___
- [04:01:41] <tantek>
(which seems to happen a lot with media information)
- [04:01:41] <tara>
lol
- [04:01:41] <tantek>
hi josh_____
- [04:01:41] <josh____>
it didn't spiral out of control as much as it needed to be gardened.. and we do need a lot of that info -- mary
- [04:01:41] <josh____>
the translation table has been really useful for a bunch of folks -- mary
- [04:01:41] <tara>
alright, so maybe we should talk about what was done and why
- [04:01:49] <josh____>
chris allen left a gazillion straw men at the top of it.. that made it seem out of control -- mary
- [04:01:56] <tantek>
well it spiralled out of control in terms of trying come up with a microformat by looking at commonalities of other formats which themselves were grossly overdesigned
- [04:02:07] <josh____>
the table comparison was useful... josh'
- [04:02:17] <tantek>
and no-one actually bothered documenting *real* examples on the *web*
- [04:02:23] <tantek>
people jumped straight to existing formats
- [04:02:33] <tantek>
which are actually less relevant compared to *actual* human behavior
- [04:02:43] <josh____>
true, way overdesigned compared to what people *do*, which is actuallly pretty simple
- [04:02:48] <tara>
gregelin, maybe you could show us your code (;))
- [04:02:48] <josh____>
--josh
- [04:02:48] <tantek>
right
- [04:03:06] <tara>
gregelin, what you showed me the other day with the container tags
- [04:03:08] <gregelin>
Sure.
- [04:03:09] <josh____>
the most people *do* is this:
- [04:03:15] <gregelin>
Let me get the URL.
- [04:03:19] <tantek>
here is the page we are talking about (old page with big tables/lists) : http://microformats.org/wiki/media-metadata-examples
- [04:03:36] <gregelin>
Tantek, can you just describe some things that you mean by "What people are putting next to the photo?"
- [04:03:40] <josh____>
<a href="http://link/to/video.mov"><img src="http://my/image.jpg"></a>
- [04:03:45] <tantek>
so I basically gave up on that page because it will be impossible to garden without spending hours of work, and it is not clear that doing so is actually useful for a microformat
- [04:03:51] <tantek>
and instead started over here:
- [04:03:55] <josh____>
oh, sorry, that's for video
- [04:04:00] <josh____>
images, righteo
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- [04:08:12] <Enric_>
test (if still connected)
- [04:08:19] <sexygirl153b>
ping
- [04:09:09] <Atamido>
pong
- [04:09:14] <Enric_>
hi guys
- [04:09:26] <sexygirl153b>
ouch, 51 second ping
- [04:09:29] * tantek_ (n=tantek@adsl-71-141-21-18.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) has joined #microformats
- [04:10:40] <Atamido>
The server must be on dialup. ;)
- [04:10:40] <sexygirl153b>
minimal photo metadata: title/caption, description, tags?, author/taker
- [04:11:14] <sexygirl153b>
secondary metadata: time taken, location, exif/tiff/iptc tags, 'notes'
- [04:11:56] <sexygirl153b>
oh - and the URL to it being the primary data item when you're posting it on the web :)
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- [04:17:29] <Hixie>
tantek: yt?
- [04:18:00] * Atamido wonders why sexy girls alwasy leave him.
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- [04:22:48] <tantek_>
hixie?
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- [04:23:32] <Hixie>
heya
- [04:23:35] <Hixie>
question for you
- [04:23:40] <Hixie>
o' master of css hacks
- [04:23:46] <tantek_>
microformats related? ;)
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- [04:29:15] <Tantek>
greetings again
- [04:30:16] <Enric>
hey
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- [04:43:38] <gregelin>
testing
- [04:43:45] <gregelin>
View source of this page: http://fotonotes.net/test_dog.html
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- [04:53:21] <tara>
testing
- [04:53:22] <gregelin>
testing.
- [04:54:01] <pnhChris>
failed
- [04:54:28] <gregelin>
damn.
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- [04:59:21] * Enric (n=chatzill@adsl-71-141-32-86.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) has joined #microformats
- [05:01:12] <Enric>
Mary Hodder's design: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cirne/88811713/
- [05:02:07] <Enric>
.
- [05:05:11] <Enric>
photo set: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cirne/sets/72057594051062739/
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- [05:30:12] * ChanServ sets mode +o Tantek
- [05:31:23] <Tantek>
hey ryan
- [05:31:31] <Tantek>
we are still at 21A
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- [06:15:44] <Atamido>
Oooh, a reply to my hReview comment.
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- [06:52:16] <Enric>
.
- [06:52:26] <Enric>
anyone still here?
- [06:55:14] <mfbot>
[[irc]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=4251 * Enric * (+31) People on irc -
- [06:57:05] <Enric>
bye
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- [11:14:18] <jibot>
rav- is Serdar Kilic and blogging at http://weblog.kilic.net/
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- [12:04:09] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
- [12:04:09] <jibot>
bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com
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- [14:03:46] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego and a college student studying to supplement web scripting skills with an understanding of interactive design. and is on hiatus until March to find work in the Dallas area.
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- [14:13:26] <jibot>
RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann (Timezone: 0100)
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- [15:44:49] <mfbot>
[[rel-tag]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag&diff=0&oldid=4252 * B.K. DeLong * (+158) Implementations -
- [15:52:50] * _psychic_ (n=john@71.32.228.156) has joined #microformats
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- [16:00:33] <jibot>
dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com)
- [16:15:11] <mfbot>
[[media-info-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=4253 * Tantek * (+36) See Also -
- [16:16:47] <_psychic_>
is there a microformat for comments (like blog comments, etc.) ?
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- [16:25:36] <RobertBachmann>
_psychic_: no
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- [16:26:11] <RobertBachmann>
thought hatom could be related
- [16:26:18] <_psychic_>
RobertBachmann: do you think looking into creating one would be a good idea?
- [16:26:30] <bkdelong>
Actually, I think hAtom would cover most of it
- [16:26:52] <bkdelong>
No need to create a NEW microformat....just give examples of using hAtom to markup comments.
- [16:27:26] <RobertBachmann>
I agree with bkdelong.
- [16:27:38] <_psychic_>
cool. Thanks.
- [16:34:11] <RobertBachmann>
has anyone used hatom for forums?
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- [16:40:30] <Atamido>
RobertBachmann: That is on my todo list.
- [16:41:33] <mfbot>
[[User:ChrisCasciano]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:ChrisCasciano * ChrisCasciano * (+204) created my page
- [16:46:34] <mfbot>
[[xfn-implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-implementations&diff=0&oldid=4254 * ChrisCasciano * (+238) XFN Implementations - txp plugin -
- [16:47:18] <bkdelong>
I'm being lazy again - anyone know where I can see examples of markup of Blog posting details? I.e. Marking up title, author name, date, time, etc?
- [16:47:37] <RobertBachmann>
Atamido: Got any special forum systems on your mind?
- [16:47:55] <mfbot>
[[rel-tag]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag&diff=0&oldid=4255 * ChrisCasciano * (+242) Implementations - txp plugin -
- [16:48:12] <Atamido>
The form system for MD-Pro, which is nuke based.
- [16:48:36] <mfbot>
[[geo]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=4256 * ChrisCasciano * (+233) Implementations - txp plugin -
- [16:48:49] * therealdam (n=adam@66.196.247.89) Quit ()
- [16:49:32] <mfbot>
[[adr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr&diff=0&oldid=4257 * ChrisCasciano * (+239) Implementations - txp plugin -
- [16:52:00] <RobertBachmann>
Atamido: maxdev.com?
- [16:52:13] <Atamido>
Yeah.
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- [16:59:40] <RobertBachmann>
the forum looks similar to phpBB.
- [17:00:58] <Atamido>
Yep.
- [17:05:04] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
- [17:05:04] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [17:05:19] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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- [17:09:51] * tantek sets mode +o RobertBachmann
- [17:09:56] <Enric>
Hello
- [17:10:04] <Atamido>
I wonder if tantek is ever not Tantek.
- [17:10:12] <Enric>
lol
- [17:10:18] <Enric>
Tantek, are you there?
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- [17:21:16] <RobertBachmann>
Atamido: Tantek tried to tell jibot "tantek is Tantek Çelik ..." but jibot couldn't cope with the Ç.
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- [17:49:37] <jibot>
RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann (Timezone: 0100)
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- [17:51:42] * mflogbot (n=PircBot@213.235.239.37) has joined #microformats
- [17:51:42] * Topic is 'media-info / fotonotes discussion || add yourself to http://microformats.org/wiki/irc || http://www.digital-web.com/articles/microformats_primer/ | Channel is logged: http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot'
- [17:51:42] * Set by tantek on Fri Jan 20 04:39:06 CET 2006
- [17:52:29] <RobertBachmann>
?forgetme
- [17:52:29] <jibot>
I have expunged RobertBachmann from my mind
- [17:53:53] <RobertBachmann>
?learn RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at> and lives in Austria (Timezone: +01:00)
- [17:53:53] <jibot>
RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at> and lives in Austria (Timezone: +01:00)
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- [17:54:57] <bewest|work>
RobertBachmann: how's the Mozart celebration going?
- [17:55:13] <bewest|work>
you participating at all?
- [17:55:38] * tantek sets mode +o RobertBachmann
- [17:57:05] <Enric>
hello?
- [17:57:22] <RobertBachmann>
bewest|work: I'm not participating, I prefer other kinds of music.
- [17:57:28] <RobertBachmann>
hello Enric
- [17:57:40] * Atamido wonders if he should add his timezone on.
- [17:57:40] <Enric>
Hi Robert... :)
- [17:58:01] * Enric wonders if tantek is around
- [17:59:56] <Enric>
see you guys later
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- [18:06:47] <Enric>
ping
- [18:07:24] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78242134.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
- [18:07:24] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [18:07:56] <RobertBachmann>
pong
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- [18:08:05] <Enric>
lol
- [18:10:29] * cee-dub (n=cee-dub@adsl-71-132-1-222.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
- [18:10:43] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) has joined #microformats
- [18:10:44] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
- [18:17:45] * kingryan|sleep is now known as kingryan
- [18:17:46] <Atamido>
There are a million people linking to this image on my web server. http://orangeman.commo.de/images/carrot.jpg
- [18:17:53] <Atamido>
Time to change it to something interesting.
- [18:18:34] * dustym (n=dustym@office.cavoksolutions.com) has joined #microformats
- [18:23:04] <trovster>
A million?
- [18:27:23] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2450P031.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
- [18:36:45] <Atamido>
I rounded up to the nearest million.
- [18:37:07] <Enric>
not down ;P)
- [18:37:20] <Atamido>
It is enough to result in hundreds of leeching hits.
- [18:37:26] <mfbot>
[[presentations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations&diff=0&oldid=4258 * Tantek * (+545) added 2006 presentations
- [18:37:36] <Atamido>
My cable modem provider won't be pleased. ;)
- [18:44:39] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
- [18:44:40] <jibot>
hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
- [18:46:52] <mfbot>
[[rel-license]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-license&diff=0&oldid=4259 * Tantek * (+265)
- [18:48:58] <mfbot>
[[geo]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=4260 * Tantek * (-1) Implementations -
- [18:59:04] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl081-240-149.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
- [19:01:40] * timb_ is now known as timb
- [19:08:39] <trovster>
Is geo-tags in the head worthy of being added as an example to that page?
- [19:09:29] <tantek>
no, because they are invisible
- [19:09:33] <tantek>
they are worthless
- [19:09:37] <tantek>
like meta keywords
- [19:09:49] <trovster>
Yeh, just noticed the class="" above it
- [19:10:31] <bergie>
they're not worthless if the user agents support them, but few do
- [19:10:52] <trovster>
Well, I've got a greasemonkey script which links to google maps, quite interesting.
- [19:11:27] <bergie>
trovster: there is also http://www.splintered.co.uk/experiments/71/
- [19:12:25] <trovster>
Interesting... I'll check it out
- [19:13:09] <bergie>
I have it installed. The globe in status bar lits up if the geo meta tags are found, and they link to geourl, google maps or flickr
- [19:13:40] <trovster>
www.approveddesign.com/about/contact/ - try that then...
- [19:13:54] <Enric>
howdy Tantek
- [19:14:10] <tantek>
hello
- [19:14:25] <Enric>
Did you get my email about TBMA?
- [19:15:02] <trovster>
oops, http://www.approveddesign.co.uk/about/contact/ I meant.
- [19:15:47] <bergie>
trovster: gives me http://maps.google.com/?sll=52.7498,-1.9184
- [19:16:04] <tantek>
?def TBMA
- [19:16:05] <jibot>
Nobody has defined TBMA yet
- [19:16:19] <bergie>
trovster: and http://www.allthegoodness.com/projects/map/firefox/index.php?lat=52.7498&long=-1.9184
- [19:17:05] <mfbot>
[[media-info-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=4261 * Mary Hodder * (+661)
- [19:17:39] <Enric>
I'm developing an idea for a Time Based Media Annotation (TBMA) microformat...
- [19:20:57] <tantek>
have you thought about what use cases you are trying to solve?
- [19:26:46] <mfbot>
[[media-info-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=4262 * Tantek * (-661) Reverted edit of Mary Hodder, changed back to last version by Tantek
- [19:29:42] <mfbot>
[[media-info-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=4263 * Tantek * (+302) generic analysis in examples pages will be deleted
- [19:30:56] * markp (n=markp@bi01p1.nc.us.ibm.com) has joined #microformats
- [19:31:13] <markp>
tantek?
- [19:32:04] <tantek>
hey markp
- [19:32:54] <markp>
what's the state of hCalendar?
- [19:33:04] <markp>
ready for implementation?
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- [19:46:29] <bergie>
markp: hCalendar? yeah, works quite nicely...
- [19:47:04] <bergie>
markp: http://weblog.infoworld.com/udell/2006/01/11.html
- [19:47:15] <trovster>
Is there a hcard to vcard for Macs?
- [19:48:46] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) has joined #microformats
- [19:48:47] <jibot>
factoryjoe is Chris Messina, works for Flock, Bar Camp & Rhyzomatic & is working towards open source world domination & factorycityblug (http://factoryjoe.com/blog/) & looks like http://www.flickr.com/photos/dotben/70970770/
- [19:49:11] <Enric>
Hey Chris :)
- [19:49:18] <factoryjoe>
hi Enric
- [19:49:22] <Enric>
how goes it?
- [19:49:30] <factoryjoe>
anh, not bad, yourself?
- [19:49:50] <Enric>
great photo that jitbot provided of you...
- [19:50:09] <Enric>
Pretty good...brainstorming a microformat for time based media ...
- [19:50:22] <tantek>
markp, any particular questions about hCalendar?
- [19:50:29] <tantek>
the vevent subset works quite well
- [19:50:35] <tantek>
and has been fairly well exercised
- [19:50:40] <Enric>
are you at flock, chris?
- [19:50:49] <tantek>
with the exception of rrules and rdates (and exrules and exdates)
- [19:51:18] <tantek>
essentially very similar to the iCal-Basic profile
- [19:51:29] <factoryjoe>
Enric: @ cctp
- [19:51:31] <factoryjoe>
err cttp
- [19:51:34] <factoryjoe>
in the haight
- [19:51:37] <factoryjoe>
working remote today
- [19:51:51] <factoryjoe>
tantek: whoa, imagine using vevent for rich media...
- [19:52:16] <factoryjoe>
event start-end corresponds to the section of the media to which you're referring..
- [19:53:36] <Enric>
chris: ahh...ok...I see now...how's the weather
- [19:54:39] <factoryjoe>
chilly!
- [19:54:42] <factoryjoe>
where are you man?
- [19:55:40] <Enric>
I'm at home... ;)
- [19:56:41] <markp>
tantek, bergie: thanks
- [19:56:56] <markp>
i'm looking for microformats that are mature enough to implement in feedparser.py
- [19:57:17] <markp>
version 4.2 is all about the microformats
- [19:57:35] <factoryjoe>
markp: will your feedparser thingie be available maybe to use in flock?
- [19:57:40] <factoryjoe>
as an extension or something?
- [19:57:45] <factoryjoe>
would be useful to attach to lucene maybe
- [19:57:53] <markp>
it's python
- [19:58:01] <markp>
but i have a version of the hcard parser in javascript
- [19:58:12] <markp>
http://diveintomark.org/projects/greasemonkey/hcard/
- [19:59:06] <bergie>
we got one of the bigger skiing centers in Finland to publish their events in hcal: http://www.pyha.fi/talvi/tapahtumat/
- [20:00:04] <bergie>
though it seems their latest implementation of it isn't fully valid :-/
- [20:00:37] <factoryjoe>
we need a validator!
- [20:01:02] <tantek>
or several ;)
- [20:02:02] <markp>
validator.microformats.org ?
- [20:02:32] <factoryjoe>
oh?
- [20:02:36] <factoryjoe>
heh nice
- [20:02:40] <markp>
just a hypothetical
- [20:03:27] <tantek>
that would make a lot of sense wouldn't it?
- [20:03:37] <bergie>
definitely
- [20:07:21] <Enric>
it's pretty cool using IRC to ping people..
- [20:09:08] <factoryjoe>
heh
- [20:09:11] <factoryjoe>
welcome to IRC, Enric
- [20:09:24] <Enric>
yup...thanks
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- [20:21:55] <jibot>
RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at> and lives in Austria (Timezone: +01:00)
- [20:26:01] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
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- [20:36:14] <RobertBachmann>
Anyone read <http://www.gerd-riesselmann.net/archives/2005/12/microformats-ignoring-user-experiences> ?
- [20:40:27] * gregelin (n=gregelin@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) has joined #microformats
- [20:41:12] <bkdelong>
He's got a point at least as it comes to Web accessibility.
- [20:44:49] <trovster>
That is a good point. I thought it was wierd when I looked at the GEO microformats use of the abbr
- [20:47:14] <RobertBachmann>
alternatives?
- [20:48:36] <trovster>
Well, span is generic enough, it doesn't need to add emphisis
- [20:49:47] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78242134.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
- [20:49:47] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
- [20:54:22] * BenjaminCarlyle (n=fuzzy@c210-49-74-125.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #microformats
- [20:54:22] <jibot>
BenjaminCarlyle is http://soundadvice.id.au/blog/, GMT 1000
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- [21:20:17] <dglazkov>
any more thoughts on gerd's article? Other than it having a rather jack-assy attitude?
- [21:23:44] <_psychic_>
is it related to this at all? http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/20/151239&from=rss
- [21:25:44] <dglazkov>
eh.
- [21:25:45] <trovster>
dglazkov: I was a jack-assy tone of voice, but it's true.
- [21:25:51] <trovster>
And makes a completely valid point.
- [21:36:38] * Enric (n=chatzill@c-67-188-10-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.69.1 [Firefox 1.5/2005111116]")
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- [21:44:19] <jibot>
RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at> and lives in Austria (Timezone: +01:00)
- [21:49:02] * tara (n=tara@h-66-134-141-205.snvacaid.covad.net) has joined #microformats
- [21:49:02] <jibot>
tara is Miss HorsePigCow (http://www.horsepigcow.com/) and the alter-ego of missrogue
- [21:49:30] <tara>
nice da bot is in da house
- [21:50:11] * tantek (n=tantek@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) has joined #microformats
- [21:50:11] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [21:50:27] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [21:51:33] * tantek sets mode +o RobertBachmann
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- [22:15:10] <gregelin>
test
- [22:15:14] <tantek>
welcome greg!
- [22:15:18] <gregelin>
:-)
- [22:17:19] <tara>
hi gregelin
- [22:22:45] <gregelin>
Hi tara!
- [22:23:08] <tara>
gregelin: you and tantek progressing along nicely?
- [22:23:38] <gregelin>
yes. We keep getting distracted by interesting ideas...
- [22:24:21] <tantek>
hey tara
- [22:24:31] <tara>
hey tantek
- [22:24:36] <tara>
interesting ideas are goo
- [22:24:39] <tara>
d
- [22:25:07] <tara>
tantek: did you see mary's post this morning?
- [22:26:02] <tara>
http://napsterization.org/stories/archives/000580.html
- [22:26:07] <tantek>
yes
- [22:26:16] <tantek>
a good brainstorming summary
- [22:26:20] <tara>
yes
- [22:26:31] <tara>
it sounds like we're pointing down the right path
- [22:27:59] <tara>
gregelin: did you ever show tantek the markup behind the dog photo? Maybe it doesn't matter...but it really drove it home for me...
- [22:28:22] <gregelin>
tara: yes. looking at now.
- [22:28:30] <tara>
awesome
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- [22:43:10] <RobertBachmann>
trovster: "Well, span is generic enough, it doesn't need to add emphisis" Were you thinking about something like <span class="foo" title="Machine-readable value">Human-readable value</span> instead of <abbr class="foo" title="Machine-readable value">Human-readable value</abbr>, or were you thinking of using <span> instead of the title attribute?
- [22:43:30] <tantek>
huh?
- [22:44:32] <RobertBachmann>
tantek: http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/2006-01-20#T203614
- [22:46:30] <tantek>
yes i saw that
- [22:50:03] <RobertBachmann>
your opinion?
- [22:50:30] <tantek>
the author of that blog post is clueless about actual support of title by accessibility software etc. and is talking purely from theory / mispropagated conventions. This presentation at WE05 debunked most of that quite thoroughly: http://www.sf.id.au/WE05/indexa.html
- [22:51:11] <tantek>
the title of the talk was "The title atribute - What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!"
- [22:51:19] <tantek>
which is good, because we have found a use for it :)
- [22:55:37] <BenjaminCarlyle>
Screen readers that understood the microformat convetion should actually be able to make better use of the microformatted data than they could the visual-human-formatted data.
- [22:56:00] <tantek>
precisely correct Benjamin
- [22:56:09] <tantek>
btw, program from WE05: http://we05.com/program.cfm
- [22:56:16] <tantek>
(marked up with hCalendar, natch)
- [23:01:37] * danja (i=DannyAye@host20-217.pool80104.interbusiness.it) Quit ("Ciao!")
- [23:06:19] <RobertBachmann>
So "I was born on <abbr class='bday' title="1985-04-07">4/7/1985</abbr>" could be read by a screenreader as "I was born on Sunday the 7th of April 1985"?
- [23:07:27] <RobertBachmann>
microformats aware screenreader, that is.
- [23:09:50] <tantek>
yes
- [23:09:57] <tantek>
because the screen reader would have the precise date
- [23:10:10] <tantek>
it could then "render" that intelligently
- [23:10:21] <pnhChris>
i dunno
- [23:10:24] <pnhChris>
sounds fishy
- [23:10:25] <tantek>
similar to how a microformats-aware visual browser could render a calendar
- [23:10:34] <tantek>
see HTML5 draft for an example
- [23:10:38] <pnhChris>
hows it gonna konw the best way to read it contextually?
- [23:10:59] <tantek>
that problem is orthogonal
- [23:11:11] <tantek>
at least with microformats the screen reader will *know* that it is semantically a date
- [23:11:21] <tantek>
and thus can treat it more intelligently than simply a sequence of characters
- [23:11:38] <pnhChris>
wouldn't the written word / human readable form also be the most 'digestible' form for the spoken word?
- [23:13:12] <tantek>
not in any international sort of way
- [23:13:38] <tantek>
what's most digestible for the eye is not necessarily what is most digestible for the ear
- [23:13:41] <RobertBachmann>
btw: "Sunday the 7th of April 1985" sounds much better than "four slash seven slash ..."
- [23:13:48] <tantek>
precisely
- [23:13:50] <pnhChris>
maybe the birthday example isn't the best case.. how about an event next month
- [23:14:20] <tantek>
consider email programs that are smart enough to put "today" instead of the full date for today and "yesterday" similarly
- [23:14:30] <tantek>
screen readers could do the same
- [23:14:36] <pnhChris>
"So i'm throwing a party on <abbr class='bday' title="1985-04-07">April 7th</abbr>, you should all come!"
- [23:15:26] <BenjaminCarlyle>
I think that a lot of the benefits microformats open up to vision-impaired folk will actually be in getting through their content faster. The ear is slow, but things like hAtom will allow a user to skip onto the next blog entry quickly. hCalendar will allow them to quickly scan through the events in a page.
- [23:15:53] <pnhChris>
yes.. and also in making things more digestable.. like going back to someones birthday quicky
- [23:16:39] <pnhChris>
i just don't know about the reading the title bit... works in some context, but i'd rather have it not read in others
- [23:16:52] <RobertBachmann>
which ones?
- [23:18:14] <pnhChris>
the less formal cases, like my example
- [23:18:15] <BenjaminCarlyle>
phnChris: I've just been reading through <http://www.sf.id.au/WE05/indexa.html> (as per tantek a few screens back). The author seems to think that vision-impaired tools tend to ignore title anyway, by default.
- [23:18:51] <pnhChris>
(minus the error in copying over class="bday")
- [23:18:55] <BenjaminCarlyle>
... so it would still come out as "April 7th" to the ear.
- [23:19:53] <BenjaminCarlyle>
Otherwise, the reader could say "that looks like a date" (possibly regardless of any class attribute, or possibly because of context) and say 7-april-1985 (which would be wrong, of course in this context...)
- [23:20:04] <pnhChris>
yes... but the discussion went in the direction of more aware readers, eventually... didn't it?
- [23:20:13] <gregelin>
(thinking out loud)
- [23:20:24] <gregelin>
Tantek and I have been kicking ideas around regarding fotonotes.
- [23:21:33] <gregelin>
I am now wondering if the real problem needing be solved is simply creating a microformat for indicating a part of media object.
- [23:22:45] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2480P019.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit ("Leaving")
- [23:23:05] <tantek>
the specific problem we first solve is referring to part of a photo
- [23:23:19] <tantek>
the other related thought was, are photo notes simple a type of hReview
- [23:23:20] <tantek>
?
- [23:23:34] <tantek>
where the item is a *part* of a URL rather than the whole thing at a URL
- [23:23:45] <pnhChris>
also.. i'd worry about the reading of the title when dealing with both start and end dates for an event..
- [23:24:25] <tantek>
chris, that's the beauty of marking those both up with hCalendar - a microformats aware screen reader could take that into account
- [23:24:32] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) Quit ("leaving")
- [23:24:38] <tantek>
anyway, back to photo notes
- [23:24:45] <pnhChris>
heh
- [23:24:48] <tantek>
there are numerous real examples of photo notes on the web
- [23:25:06] <tantek>
i'm wondering if it is worth solving this a different specific microformat
- [23:25:10] <BenjaminCarlyle>
phnChris: That would be a tough one for any reader that doesn't understand the microformat, but reads the title regardless. I guess we're hoping that such things don't really exist (or don't constitute an 80%).
- [23:25:15] <tantek>
separate from the generic media-info problem
- [23:25:44] <BenjaminCarlyle>
tantek: Are these notes that anyone on the web just happens to make about a particular photo that someone else owns?
- [23:25:56] <BenjaminCarlyle>
... or notes from the author about the photo?
- [23:26:07] <tantek>
both
- [23:26:16] <tantek>
although i agree that they are interesting different cases
- [23:26:20] <tantek>
author annotations
- [23:26:22] <tantek>
3rd party annotations
- [23:26:28] <pnhChris>
its really the informal cases that i don't see it working as well.. where the microformat is embedded in a sentence, header or other form.. not a list or other more formal appearance
- [23:26:29] <tantek>
one microformat may be able to solve both
- [23:26:35] <tantek>
or you might want a different microformat
- [23:27:27] <BenjaminCarlyle>
It's interesting that if you decompose hReview, what you really have is probably a "comment/description", a "rating", and a "citation". Perhaps it could be cut down to answer each of those problem domains as necessary by making the other bits optional.
- [23:27:45] <tantek>
benjamin, not quite
- [23:28:28] <tantek>
you have the "item" (citation, photo, url etc.), you have the "stuff about the item" (description, tags, rating), you have the "who said it" (reviewer), and you have the "when" (dtreviewed)
- [23:29:17] * BenjaminCarlyle nods
- [23:30:00] <tantek>
to that extent, i am eager to see progress on cite-examples etc.
- [23:30:07] <BenjaminCarlyle>
But presumably a fotonote would be a description that may or may not have a rating
- [23:30:43] <BenjaminCarlyle>
... but I suppose reviewer and dtreviewed start to look more like author and created.
- [23:31:33] <tantek>
yes, subclasses thereof
- [23:31:44] <tantek>
a reviewer is an author of sorts
- [23:31:51] <tantek>
but an author is not necessarily a reviewer
- [23:32:19] <tantek>
same thing with the other two
- [23:32:28] * BenjaminCarlyle nods
- [23:36:20] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@pcp01381199pcs.levtwn01.pa.comcast.net) Quit ()
- [23:37:21] * therealdam (n=adam@66.196.247.89) Quit ()
- [23:37:31] <tantek>
well i'm going to document a bunch of *real* examples on the *web* using *URLs* of photo notes and we'll see if we can find some patterns among the empirical behaviors.
- [23:38:09] <BenjaminCarlyle>
Citation is either really hard (a description of the cited work's characteristics) or really easy (<a href="id">text</a>).
- [23:38:16] * BenjaminCarlyle has a look at the wiki pages...
- [23:39:01] * tantek goes to write up /wiki/photo-note-examples
- [23:39:39] <tantek>
anyone know how to lookup which photos of yours on Flickr have the most *notes* (as opposed to comments or tags)?
- [23:44:34] * BenjaminCarlyle ponders... when is an <a> element not a citation? Hrmm.. only when there is no connected discussion, eg blogroll. Are all urls in the context of a paragraph citations?
- [23:44:57] <gregelin>
The XML of Fotonotes (embedded in the jpeg): http://fotonotes.net/spec/index.php/Current_FNAtom_Schema
- [23:45:12] <tantek>
a citation is a reference to a distinct work of art of some sort
- [23:45:22] <tantek>
not everything you link to is really considered a distinct work of art
- [23:45:26] <tantek>
though perhaps most are
- [23:45:34] <tantek>
so yes, that is a good question, when is a hyperlink not a citation
- [23:46:16] <gregelin>
"work of art" is a legal term for something created, from a patent to copyrighted work.
- [23:47:48] <BenjaminCarlyle>
I'll do a bit more reading, then may add the question to cite-brainstorming. I think the answers may guide further discussion.
- [23:48:24] <tantek>
yes, i'm looking forward to that too
- [23:48:40] <tantek>
gregelin, that makes sense to me
- [23:51:37] * Enric (n=chatzill@c-67-188-10-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
- [23:51:56] <mfbot>
[[photo-note-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/photo-note-examples * Tantek * (+1361) first draft
- [23:52:13] <gregelin>
In order to make an annotation, you need to have a that indicates a "selection"
- [23:52:16] <gregelin>
oops
- [23:52:22] <mfbot>
[[photo-note-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=photo-note-examples&diff=0&oldid=4264 * Tantek * (+5) Photo Note Examples -
- [23:52:48] * tara (n=tara@h-66-134-141-205.snvacaid.covad.net) Quit ()
- [23:54:44] <gregelin>
In order to make any type of annotation on media, you need to have a "pointer/reference" into (or of) something, and you need to have a "selection" indicated by some type of "coordinates". Does it make sense to have an equivalent to the "mime-type" for coordinates.
- [23:55:34] <tantek>
a fragment
- [23:56:09] <tantek>
posit: the type of a fragment is fully determined by the type of the whole
- [23:56:12] <Enric>
Hey Greg :)
- [23:56:17] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@dsl092-184-073.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [23:56:17] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
- [23:56:20] <bkdelong>
RaJust ran across http://www.rorweb.com/ and http://www.meaningfuel.org from the Structured blogging list.
- [23:56:23] <bkdelong>
Mike!
- [23:56:30] <mlinksva>
hi
- [23:56:50] <tantek>
rorweb looks like lone-inventor looniness
- [23:56:52] * _psychic_ (n=john@71.32.228.156) has left #microformats
- [23:57:56] <gregelin>
Hey Enric.
- [23:58:13] <Enric>
Hey...good to see you again...
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