IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-02-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:01:19] * keithalexander (n=keithale@87.112.7.215.bbplus.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  11. [01:01:44] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
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  16. [01:36:37] <mfbot> [[plain-xml]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/plain-xml * Tantek * (+510)
  17. [01:37:03] <mfbot> [[introduction]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=introduction&diff=0&oldid=4599 * Tantek * (-197) moved "plain XML" links/discussion to a new page and added more
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  27. [03:21:13] * LTjake (n=brian@CPE0011506c8049-CM0013711405ec.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5/2005111116]")
  28. [03:37:42] <mfbot> [[hash-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hash-examples&diff=0&oldid=4600 * Ant * (+215) Proposal - add example from Charles Iliya Krempeaux
  29. [04:04:45] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) has joined #microformats
  30. [04:08:56] * cks (n=cks@ppp-70-248-121-149.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) Quit ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
  31. [04:18:31] * Enric (n=chatzill@c-67-188-10-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  32. [04:18:31] <jibot> Enric is a media Software Developer and Videoblogger located at http://www.cirne.com
  33. [04:21:46] * cks (n=cks@ppp-70-248-121-149.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #microformats
  34. [04:23:31] <cks> this is a little frustrating, and i might be missing something really obvious, but i don't see a good way to find out if chatzilla logs are "in the wild"
  35. [04:23:46] <cks> is there any way to search for markup?
  36. [04:27:20] <Atamido> cks: That is what I was looking for, but I was unable to find anything.
  37. [04:27:58] <Atamido> Searching for the class names directly returned only guides to styling, so if there are any logs online, they are being served as HTML.
  38. [04:31:37] <cks> the chatzilla format is interesting, in that it made me realize i hadn't thought things through as much as they had. not sure if it's actually appropriate, but boy there's a lot of markup in there :-)
  39. [04:34:52] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  40. [04:34:52] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  41. [04:35:38] * Enric (n=chatzill@c-67-188-10-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5/2005111116]")
  42. [04:48:38] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@adsl-072-148-043-048.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.0.7/20051010]")
  43. [04:49:50] * davecardwell (n=dave@moose.davecardwell.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  44. [04:57:56] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=4601 * Dave Cardwell * (+96) New Examples -
  45. [05:02:12] <mfbot> [[chat-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=chat-examples&diff=0&oldid=4602 * ChristopherStJohn * (+1975) ChatZilla IRC client presentation layer format
  46. [05:03:03] <mfbot> [[chat-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=chat-examples&diff=0&oldid=4603 * ChristopherStJohn * (-2)
  47. [05:04:46] * blake (n=blake@dsl093-240-087.ral1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  48. [05:04:46] <jibot> blake is allegedly human. Blake, also known as Cortland M. Setlow, studies at swarthmore.edu and enjoys building things, exploring buildings, and physics. He currently sleeps during the day.
  49. [05:27:45] * limbo_goned (i=_limbo_@dsl081-055-160.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  51. [05:35:26] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  52. [05:49:17] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  53. [05:49:18] <jibot> Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
  54. [05:50:08] * davecardwell (n=dave@moose.davecardwell.co.uk) Quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
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  57. [05:50:20] <Atamido> ?
  58. [06:00:30] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) Quit ("leaving")
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  60. [06:06:51] <mfbot> [[chat-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=chat-examples&diff=0&oldid=4604 * ChristopherStJohn * (+57) Authors -
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  62. [06:16:59] * limbo_goned is now known as limbo_
  63. [06:36:10] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl081-240-149.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  64. [06:36:10] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  65. [06:36:16] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
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  68. [06:50:33] <mfbot> [[irc]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=4605 * ChristopherStJohn * (+41) People on irc -
  69. [07:07:00] <mfbot> [[hash-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hash-examples&diff=0&oldid=4606 * Ant * (-4) Proposal - change checksum to hash
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  75. [09:04:19] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  76. [09:04:19] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
  77. [09:09:18] * dnr (i=dnr@gwalk-56.d.port.ac.uk) has joined #microformats
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  79. [10:05:14] * bluesmoon (n=bluesmoo@nat-fw.bangalore.corp.yahoo.com) has joined #microformats
  80. [10:05:14] <jibot> bluesmoon is Philip from India & writes often on livejournal & sometimes about tech stuff on http://bluesmoon.blogspot.com & restaurants on http://bluesviews.blogspot.com & local food secrets on http://bluesfood.blogspot.com
  81. [10:16:56] * dnr (i=dnr@gwalk-56.d.port.ac.uk) Quit ("Leaving")
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  83. [11:29:48] <mfbot> [[citation-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-formats&diff=0&oldid=4607 * Yewtree * (+1241)
  84. [11:31:24] <mfbot> [[citation-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-formats&diff=0&oldid=4608 * Yewtree * (+3) University of Bath reference type -
  85. [12:02:01] * LTjake (n=brian@h64-5-219-130.gtcust.grouptelecom.net) has joined #microformats
  86. [12:20:28] <trovster> Who had the star-rating with radio buttons?
  87. [12:24:23] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  88. [12:24:23] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
  89. [12:35:21] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) Quit ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
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  92. [13:45:39] <mfbot> [[hreview]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=4609 * CaptainHook * (+128) Examples in the wild -
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  97. [15:26:36] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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  104. [16:44:31] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@N080P015.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  105. [16:44:32] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: 01:00)
  106. [16:46:20] <mfbot> [[plain-xml]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=plain-xml&diff=0&oldid=4610 * Tantek * (+125) Plain XML -
  107. [16:47:37] <pnhChris> can someone tell me the current status if any of any FAQ format discussions? is there an ongoing discussion
  108. [16:49:38] <bewest|work> wouldn't a faq be a simple definition list?
  109. [16:49:51] <bewest|work> faq's fit a key:value pattern
  110. [16:52:01] <bkdelong> Yeah....at the moment it's just XOXO
  111. [16:52:25] <bkdelong> When I get off my butt, I'll try to markup and post some examples to the wiki and we can see if there's anything missing.
  112. [16:59:05] <bluesmoon> can anyone get a login on the twiki or is it restricted?
  113. [16:59:32] <bluesmoon> *wiki
  114. [16:59:44] <bewest|work> bluesmoon: iirc, anyone can, but your user name has to be a WikiWord
  115. [17:00:22] <bluesmoon> okay
  116. [17:00:45] <bluesmoon> so bluesmoon isn't, but BluesMoon would be. is that correct?
  117. [17:01:02] <RobertBachmann> yes
  118. [17:02:22] <trovster> Yeh, what's that about... why do I have to change my username?
  119. [17:02:28] <bluesmoon> is it appropriate for anyone to add content?
  120. [17:03:02] <RobertBachmann> bluesmoon: yes
  121. [17:03:12] <bluesmoon> okay, thanks
  122. [17:03:18] <RobertBachmann> trovster: already have a login?
  123. [17:06:16] <RobertBachmann> bluesmoon: We ask you to include your full real name (and perhaps email or website address) on your user page
  124. [17:08:50] <bluesmoon> saw that RobertBachmann, I intend to.
  125. [17:14:10] <trovster> RobertBachmann: Yes, I do after I changed my main username.
  126. [17:16:20] <RobertBachmann> your main username for the wiki?
  127. [17:17:07] <mfbot> [[geo]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=4611 * BluesMoon * (+214) Add note about javascript to convert geo to google map
  128. [17:18:35] <pnhChris> bkdelong: thanks.. .i figured it was jsut wrapped up in something else, but couldn't track down any specifics in the wiki or the pack of list messages i've saved
  129. [17:18:59] <pnhChris> this made me think of it though: http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/toggle_elements.asp
  130. [17:23:01] <trovster> RobertBachmann: No, my username I use on all my logins for webstes.
  131. [17:24:37] <RobertBachmann> trovster: I see. AFAIK this CamelCase thing is here to prevent spamming.
  132. [17:24:58] <trovster> Well, I didn't think it was even CamelCase, just starts with a capital.
  133. [17:27:07] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl081-240-149.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  134. [17:27:23] <mfbot> [[adr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr&diff=0&oldid=4612 * RobertBachmann * (+35) See also -
  135. [17:32:32] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
  136. [17:32:33] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
  137. [17:34:53] <RobertBachmann> hatom-issues realy needs some clean up... howver not sure how this should be done. Thoughts anyone?
  138. [17:35:08] <bkdelong> You mean the page? or the concept?
  139. [17:35:29] <RobertBachmann> the page
  140. [17:35:41] * blake (n=blake@dsl093-240-087.ral1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  141. [17:39:54] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@66.83.191.30.nw.nuvox.net) has joined #microformats
  142. [17:43:31] * RobertBachmann whised microformat's wiki would support perma links
  143. [17:44:42] <RobertBachmann> actually I wished for perma link support ;-)
  144. [17:51:25] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@N080P015.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit ("bb later")
  145. [17:51:37] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  146. [17:51:37] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  147. [17:53:19] * keithalexander (n=keithale@87.112.17.239.bbplus.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net) has joined #microformats
  148. [17:57:06] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit ()
  149. [18:04:51] * Enric (n=chatzill@c-67-188-10-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  150. [18:04:51] <jibot> Enric is a media Software Developer and Videoblogger located at http://www.cirne.com
  151. [18:06:20] <mfbot> [[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=4613 * Tantek * (+76) New Examples -
  152. [18:12:26] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  153. [18:12:26] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  154. [18:12:41] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  155. [18:18:06] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  156. [18:18:06] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
  157. [18:44:27] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4614 * RyanKing * (-74) merged the two discussions around atom:feed
  158. [18:49:49] * danja (i=DannyAye@host231-217.pool80104.interbusiness.it) has joined #microformats
  159. [18:51:08] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4615 * RyanKing * (+42) cleaning up some formatting
  160. [18:52:14] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4616 * RyanKing * (-194) Purpose -
  161. [18:54:20] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4617 * RyanKing * (-1057) more format fixing
  162. [18:57:21] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
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  164. [19:05:47] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4618 * RyanKing * (+81) merging the discussions about atom:entry
  165. [19:07:33] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-issues&diff=0&oldid=4619 * RyanKing * (+165) Issues - added issue about atom vs. vjournal clash
  166. [19:35:45] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4620 * RyanKing * (-414) meged the discussion about entry titles
  167. [19:44:41] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4621 * RyanKing * (-159) merged summary discussions
  168. [19:48:37] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4622 * RyanKing * (+41) merging permalink discussion
  169. [19:49:47] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@N097P021.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  170. [19:49:48] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: 01:00)
  171. [19:50:33] <mfbot> [[hatom-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-faq&diff=0&oldid=4623 * RyanKing * (-149) removing non-faq question
  172. [20:05:26] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  173. [20:07:35] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4624 * RyanKing * (-917) a bunch of cleanup
  174. [20:10:55] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  175. [20:12:24] <qid> uh. anyone just see the "hReview for Stocks" message on the list?
  176. [20:13:08] <qid> not to put too fine a point on it, but I think someone needs to wield the cluestick on this one.
  177. [20:14:56] <mfbot> [[hreview-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-issues&diff=0&oldid=4625 * Tantek * (+308) only one item per hreview - duh
  178. [20:18:22] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4626 * RyanKing * (-53) merged the discussion on published and updated
  179. [20:19:38] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4627 * RyanKing * (+0) Dependancies - fixed typo
  180. [20:25:24] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4628 * RyanKing * (-129) Nomenclature - cleaning up my own mess
  181. [20:25:45] <kingryan> qid: what kind of cluestick wielding to we need?
  182. [20:26:40] <RobertBachmann> kingryan: Tantek already posted a verbose reply
  183. [20:27:20] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4629 * RyanKing * (-107) Dependencies -
  184. [20:31:41] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4630 * RyanKing * (-1622) Limitations - summarized some discussion. Use the list for discussion!
  185. [20:35:27] * trovv (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  186. [20:39:03] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4631 * RyanKing * (-131) Comparisons - cleaned up some conversation
  187. [20:39:13] * Atamido thinks he will post about the range being used on one of the hReview pages when he gets a chance.
  188. [20:39:46] <kingryan> atamido, wha?
  189. [20:40:44] * trovv (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  190. [20:41:07] * trovv (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  191. [20:44:33] <Atamido> kingryan: The default range being 1-5.
  192. [20:44:48] <kingryan> what do you want to say about it?
  193. [20:44:59] <kingryan> that hasn't already been captured on hreview-issues ?
  194. [20:45:32] <kingryan> whoops, we don't actually have it documented on hreview-issues
  195. [20:46:59] <mfbot> [[hreview-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-issues&diff=0&oldid=4632 * RyanKing * (+12) rel=&quot;self&quot; -
  196. [20:47:30] <mfbot> [[hreview-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-issues&diff=0&oldid=4633 * RyanKing * (+0)
  197. [20:47:38] * kingryan is now known as kingryan|lunch
  198. [20:47:57] <Atamido> :P
  199. [20:52:29] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  200. [20:54:33] <TantekC> kingryan, atamido, what?
  201. [20:54:42] <TantekC> it's been on hreview-issues for a while
  202. [20:54:51] <TantekC> http://microformats.org/wiki/hreview-issues#default_lower_bound
  203. [20:55:01] <TantekC> it's been *documented* that is
  204. [20:56:30] <Atamido> TantekC: The lower bound, labelling the lower bound, the upper bound, the use of integers, etc.
  205. [20:59:46] <qid> isn't there also a big extensive thread on that?
  206. [21:00:50] <TantekC> Atamido, to be precise, the "worst" of a range, the "best" of a range are better terms to use than "lower bound" or "upper bound", because lower/upper imply that higher is better which is not true across ratings in an international context
  207. [21:00:55] <TantekC> this is a common mistake in review formats
  208. [21:01:09] <TantekC> which use min and max typically
  209. [21:01:58] <TantekC> As far as integers, there's already been a consensus to allow one decimal digit of precision in hReview 0.3, per feedback and more analysis of more examples.
  210. [21:02:15] <TantekC> there are no other open issues regarding ratings in hReview AFAIK
  211. [21:03:00] <TantekC> qid, there was a big long thread about it where people brought up various new examples as a point of argument, but AFAIK, no one bothered documenting them on review-examples, so there is nothing to act on
  212. [21:03:03] <qid> actually, I think there have been several threads on the issue of ratings... most recently, sfam@cyberpunkreview.com seems to have done a fairly thorough study of what rating methods are preferred
  213. [21:03:50] <TantekC> not thorough at all. sfam appeared to complete ignore the research on the wiki, and then proceeded to not contribute to it.
  214. [21:05:01] <qid> thorough as in he seems to have talked to a bunch of people and gotten their preferences, then drawn some conclusions based on the responses
  215. [21:05:37] <TantekC> ah, he made that mistake ok
  216. [21:05:45] <qid> when viewed in the context of messages like "here's a new microformat I just invented!", it's pretty thorough
  217. [21:06:09] <TantekC> talking to people and *asking* them for their preferences will give you very different (and worse / less accurate) answers than actually researching what people actually *do*
  218. [21:06:36] <TantekC> that's a common methdological mistake in this kind of research, and i'm trying to figure out where to document it on the wiki.
  219. [21:07:16] <qid> well, it's not clear whether people use these rating schemes because they prefer them
  220. [21:09:14] <qid> I agree that a purely hypothetical exercise isn't good enough, but I got the impression that the respondants were reviewers who actually used their chosen format, or possibly several of the formats in different places
  221. [21:10:34] * blake (n=blake@dsl093-240-087.ral1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  222. [21:10:34] <jibot> blake is allegedly human. Blake, also known as Cortland M. Setlow, studies at swarthmore.edu and enjoys building things, exploring buildings, and physics. He currently sleeps during the day.
  223. [21:10:43] <qid> I'm also not sure how much of this actually matters; whether being able to specify the range actually enables anything
  224. [21:13:29] <qid> being able to take a set of reviews and normalize the ratings to a common scale would allow the calculation of an average rating; of course, there is also some confusion/debate over using hReview for aggregates like that
  225. [21:13:40] <cks> was there originally intended to be more text on the chat-examples page about the "why" of it? looks like it's been cut off..
  226. [21:14:35] <qid> hmm... yeah, the first sentence looks cut off
  227. [21:15:13] <TantekC> ok, I will add more detail on methodology to the "examples" page
  228. [21:16:17] <qid> cks: it's cut off in every version, so I guess whoever wrote it originally never got around to finishing their though
  229. [21:16:18] * blake (n=blake@dsl093-240-087.ral1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  230. [21:16:20] <qid> thought*
  231. [21:16:30] <TantekC> heh
  232. [21:19:17] * trovv (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  233. [21:20:51] * Delistick` (n=ddd@CPE00e01899fb10-CM0012c99ed6d6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit ()
  234. [21:20:54] <bluesmoon> I've update my geo microformat to google maps to support yahoo maps as well
  235. [21:21:11] <bluesmoon> http://bluesmoon.blogspot.com/
  236. [21:22:16] * LTjake (n=brian@h64-5-219-130.gtcust.grouptelecom.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5/2005111116]")
  237. [21:22:22] <mfbot> [[examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=examples&diff=0&oldid=4634 * Tantek * (+1670) details of Current Human Behavior on the Web
  238. [21:25:03] <mfbot> [[examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=examples&diff=0&oldid=4635 * Tantek * (-18)
  239. [21:25:30] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  240. [21:25:37] <TantekC> ok, there we go. qid take a look at http://microformats.org/wiki/examples#Current_Human_Behavior_on_the_Web
  241. [21:26:48] <TantekC> qid, also, the assumption that you can simply take scales and normalize them to compute cross-rating-scale aggregates is flawed in a number of ways.
  242. [21:27:08] <TantekC> in general, people treat numbers differently
  243. [21:27:19] <Atamido> TantekC: Yes, I said I wanted to add to the hReview pages, including adding examples.
  244. [21:27:47] * ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) Quit (ACK! SIGSEGV!)
  245. [21:27:51] <TantekC> people treat a 1,2,3,4,5 very differently on a 1-5 scale than they treat 2,4,6,8,10 on a 1-10 scale.
  246. [21:28:46] <TantekC> there is obviously a lot of correspondence, but there are differences due to people's different psychological perception of different numbers
  247. [21:28:58] <TantekC> and different ranges
  248. [21:29:05] * kingryan|lunch is now known as kingryan
  249. [21:30:15] <qid> TantekC: indeed, which is why I'm wondering how much time it's worth spending on the hReview rating, if it isn't always possible to really do anything with it programmatically
  250. [21:30:27] * ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) has joined #microformats
  251. [21:31:46] <Atamido> qid: Nice word, "programmatically".
  252. [21:32:04] <qid> I'm not sure if I spelled it right
  253. [21:32:22] <Atamido> I just like it.
  254. [21:34:32] <qid> TantekC: "outweight" -> "outweigh"
  255. [21:35:14] * blake (n=blake@dsl093-240-087.ral1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  256. [21:35:15] <jibot> blake is allegedly human. Blake, also known as Cortland M. Setlow, studies at swarthmore.edu and enjoys building things, exploring buildings, and physics. He currently sleeps during the day.
  257. [21:36:31] <qid> personally, I think that the microformats process is quite well-documented, but isn't emphasized enough over the microformats... formats...
  258. [21:37:52] <qid> many people seem to come into the community with knowledge of the formats, but not of the process used to create the formats, and thus the mailing list regularly receives messages from people just proposing new formats out of the blue
  259. [21:39:41] <qid> unfortunately the very name "microformats" is problematic, in that it doesn't sound like anything to do with a process
  260. [21:40:24] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4636 * RyanKing * (-131) Nomenclature -
  261. [21:41:12] <edsu> is anyone famililar with wowbar and what it is?
  262. [21:41:38] <edsu> oh hold on i found: http://www.commerce.net/wiki/Wowbar_notes
  263. [21:42:03] <qid> I think a specific, separate name for the "microformats process" would both ease communication (don't have to use the compound term "microformats process") and clarify the whole microformats "movement"
  264. [21:43:16] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4637 * RyanKing * (+11) hCards -
  265. [21:47:32] * blake (n=blake@dsl093-240-087.ral1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  266. [21:47:33] <cks> speaking of process, given the fragmentary nature of the "why" section on chats examples, it might be worth a loop back. i assume the thing to do is float some suggestions on the mailing list, then update the wiki as thoughts converge?
  267. [21:48:50] * _psychic1 (n=john@71.32.228.156) has joined #microformats
  268. [21:49:29] * Atamido is more interested in creating thing than in why they are being created. :P
  269. [21:49:48] <Atamido> cks: You saw my MSN examples, no?
  270. [21:55:07] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@66.83.191.30.nw.nuvox.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.69.3 [Firefox 1.5/2005111116]")
  271. [21:57:19] * bluesmoon (n=bluesmoo@nat-fw.bangalore.corp.yahoo.com) Quit ("Leaving")
  272. [21:57:25] <cks> atamindo: just looking at them now
  273. [21:57:49] <cks> shall i extract and post? or did you want to do that?
  274. [22:01:19] * _psychic_ (n=john@71.32.228.156) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  275. [22:07:04] * blake (n=blake@dsl093-240-087.ral1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  276. [22:07:04] <jibot> blake is allegedly human. Blake, also known as Cortland M. Setlow, studies at swarthmore.edu and enjoys building things, exploring buildings, and physics. He currently sleeps during the day.
  277. [22:07:57] <mfbot> [[chat-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=chat-examples&diff=0&oldid=4638 * ChristopherStJohn * (+1823) MSN Messenger XML format log example
  278. [22:08:13] <mfbot> [[events]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=4639 * Tantek * (+193) Microformats related Events -
  279. [22:08:24] <mfbot> [[chat-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=chat-examples&diff=0&oldid=4640 * ChristopherStJohn * (-2)
  280. [22:08:50] <mfbot> [[chat-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=chat-examples&diff=0&oldid=4641 * ChristopherStJohn * (+1)
  281. [22:10:51] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4642 * RyanKing * (+513)
  282. [22:13:52] <mfbot> [[events]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=4643 * Tantek * (+178) Microformats related Events -
  283. [22:16:46] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@N097P021.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit ("Leaving")
  284. [22:32:47] <KevinMarks> tantek, did you see the laetst in the 'Guido hunts for a web framework' saga?
  285. [22:32:50] <KevinMarks> http://www.artima.com/forums/threaded.jsp?forum=106&thread=146647
  286. [22:36:13] * _psychic_ (n=john@71.32.228.156) has joined #microformats
  287. [22:45:03] <danja> " Writing logic in XSLT makes writing regexes look fun"
  288. [22:45:12] <danja> heh, like it
  289. [22:47:25] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  290. [22:48:00] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  291. [22:51:08] * _psychic1 (n=john@71.32.228.156) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  292. [22:52:19] <KevinMarks> mind you, you could say writing CSS is tricky too
  293. [22:56:23] <cks> http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2001/05/07/xsltmath.html, about 3/4 of the way down is an xslt script that computes pi. 'nuff said.
  294. [22:57:00] * LTjake (n=brian@CPE0011506c8049-CM0013711405ec.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
  295. [22:57:21] * cks (n=cks@ppp-70-248-121-149.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) Quit ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
  296. [22:58:49] <TantekC> KevinMarks, except that, according to market adoption you would be wrong.
  297. [22:59:13] <TantekC> *far* more web developers understand how to write CSS than XML
  298. [22:59:16] * blake (n=blake@dsl093-240-087.ral1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  299. [22:59:30] <KevinMarks> oh, I agree, and I don't find it hard, I just ask you
  300. [22:59:32] <KevinMarks> ;)
  301. [22:59:36] <TantekC> heh
  302. [23:00:03] <TantekC> asking in #css probably works quite well too
  303. [23:00:09] * cks (n=cks@ppp-70-248-121-149.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #microformats
  304. [23:00:20] <KevinMarks> actually CSSEdit is pretty nice
  305. [23:00:45] <KevinMarks> with it's GUI/markup toggle
  306. [23:01:15] <TantekC> Kevin, was there anything in particular you wanted me to see in the comments to Guido's post?
  307. [23:01:28] <TantekC> I read through the comments and it didn't look like much of anything new was added.
  308. [23:02:51] <KevinMarks> that was the 3rd in a series on 'Guido tries to grok python web frameworks', and it was mainly the comemnt on XML vs HTML that struck me
  309. [23:03:04] <KevinMarks> (Guido being the inventor of Python)
  310. [23:03:09] <TantekC> too bad the comments themselves don't have permalinks
  311. [23:03:12] <KevinMarks> yes
  312. [23:09:00] * blake (n=blake@dsl093-240-087.ral1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  313. [23:15:20] * blake (n=blake@dsl093-240-087.ral1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  314. [23:30:41] <mfbot> [[microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=microformats&diff=0&oldid=4644 * Tantek * (+1016) Added related principles, point about using UTF-8
  315. [23:35:10] * Enric_ (n=chatzill@c-67-188-10-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  316. [23:35:31] * Enric_ (n=chatzill@c-67-188-10-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  317. [23:35:38] * karlUshi (n=karl@tea06.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp) has joined #microformats
  318. [23:35:38] <jibot> karlUshi is karlcow
  319. [23:36:22] <mfbot> [[chat-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=chat-examples&diff=0&oldid=4645 * Ant * (+1) IRC transcripts - plantext -> plaintext
  320. [23:39:11] * _psychic_ (n=john@71.32.228.156) Quit ()
  321. [23:45:57] <Atamido> Freenode has a #css channel?
  322. [23:46:07] <Atamido> cks: Thanks for adding that stuff.
  323. [23:47:13] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4646 * RyanKing * (+9) moving TOC down
  324. [23:49:06] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) Quit ("leaving")
  325. [23:49:09] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) has joined #microformats
  326. [23:50:30] <kingryan> cks, did you add markp's examples to the wiki?
  327. [23:51:34] <mfbot> [[chat-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=chat-examples&diff=0&oldid=4647 * ChristopherStJohn * (+2252) ILRT irc logger bot with foaf, wordnet and dublin core rdf
  328. [23:51:55] * Enric (n=chatzill@c-67-188-10-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  329. [23:52:56] <cks> in progress, trying to dig through the rdf stuff is a pain, i don't the foaf guys ever really finished spec'ing the chat log stuff
  330. [23:53:36] <kingryan> cool
  331. [23:56:50] <mfbot> [[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=4648 * RyanKing * (-1) Schema - changed 'atom' to 'h', since that's what we're now using for the containing elements

These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.

See http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot for more information.