IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-02-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  3. [00:06:48] <jibot> karlUshi is karlcow
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  5. [00:09:52] <jibot> blake is allegedly human. Blake, also known as Cortland M. Setlow, studies at swarthmore.edu and enjoys building things, exploring buildings, and physics. He currently sleeps during the day.
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  15. [00:59:51] <mfbot> [[chat-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=chat-examples&diff=0&oldid=4688 * Chris Messina * (+45) Authors -
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  33. [04:52:09] <mfbot> [[chat-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=chat-examples&diff=0&oldid=4689 * Chris Messina * (+1268) Added Skype transcript format
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  37. [06:11:57] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  38. [06:12:01] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
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  40. [06:44:40] <jibot> Enric is a media Software Developer and Videoblogger located at http://www.cirne.com
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  59. [08:00:11] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  60. [08:03:18] <factoryjoe> hey mlinksva
  61. [08:03:20] <factoryjoe> what's your interest here?
  62. [08:05:47] <KevinMarks> mike's been shipping microformats out for ages
  63. [08:05:55] <KevinMarks> rel="license"
  64. [08:06:02] <factoryjoe> oh... nice
  65. [08:06:04] <factoryjoe> ah ha
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  70. [09:07:18] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
  71. [09:17:22] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  72. [09:48:48] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=4690 * Mikemd * (+384) New Examples -
  73. [09:49:54] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=4691 * Mikemd * (+24) New Examples -
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  80. [15:55:27] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
  81. [15:58:50] <mfbot> [[geo-issues]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/geo-issues * Brian * (+97)
  82. [16:02:12] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4692 * Brian * (+547) Added GeoRSS references for consideration in hAtom entries
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  88. [16:37:27] <DanC> hmm... I just got email announcing the dates of a meeting. a W3C meeting. I don't think it's marked up with hCalendar.
  89. [16:37:41] <DanC> I could mark it up myself, but it might not stick...
  90. [16:38:27] <DanC> ... somehow I got our syndicated news markup (precursor to hAtom) to stick, i.e. to become part of the norm in the W3C comm team.
  91. [16:38:42] <DanC> I wonder if I could pull that off for calendars.
  92. [16:39:22] <DanC> my first thought is authoring tools, but I don't think I can wait that long...
  93. [16:39:31] <DanC> next thought is instant-feedback checking tools...
  94. [16:39:57] <DanC> X2V is really handy, but can't be used for confidential pages (and many/most calendars I use are not public)
  95. [16:40:21] <DanC> so.. how about some in-browser javascript "yes, you got it right!" or "hmm... that looks like a date; is there an event you didn't mark up?" feedbac?
  96. [16:40:58] * DanC thinks he saw something like that...
  97. [16:43:43] <edsu> a microformat ide :)
  98. [16:43:54] <edsu> a neat idea
  99. [16:45:23] <bkdelong> good idea DanC. Might want to post that of the wiki
  100. [16:47:25] <DanC> where would you look for it?
  101. [16:47:32] <DanC> hCalendar-brainstorming?
  102. [16:47:39] <DanC> is that where use cases/stories go?
  103. [16:48:22] <DanC> it's pretty specific to me; not really a shared-text sort of thing like I think wikis are best for. hm.
  104. [16:50:27] <bkdelong> brainstorming, probably.
  105. [16:50:51] <bkdelong> Not necessarily....I think it's an application idea that might be specific to you but could be implemented elsewhere.
  106. [16:55:01] <tantek> DanC, I believe there are javascript hCalendar parsers
  107. [16:55:08] <tantek> check the Implementations section of hCalendar
  108. [16:55:57] * DanC nods
  109. [16:56:34] <tantek> another thought I had was a variant of X2V that would simply take the data as form fields
  110. [16:57:39] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2519P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  111. [16:57:39] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: 01:00)
  112. [16:57:41] * tantek realizes this is a common problem for converters/validators and points to http://validator.w3.org
  113. [16:57:49] * tantek sets mode +o RobertBachmann
  114. [16:57:56] * tantek sets mode +o KevinMarks
  115. [16:59:17] * DanC tries to remember the media wiki equivalent of <a href="..">...</a>
  116. [17:00:49] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4693 * DanC * (+988) on workflow issues around hCalendar for big W3C meetings
  117. [17:00:56] <tantek> [href linktext]
  118. [17:01:25] <DanC> I like the markup buttons
  119. [17:02:05] <DanC> it's kind of a nice compromise between wysiwyg/direct-manipulation a la tinyMCE and having to remember the cryptic codes for bold from memory
  120. [17:02:38] <DanC> media wiki shows many, many little signs if maturity, doesn't it?
  121. [17:03:04] <tantek> I think pbwiki is giving it some good healthy competition
  122. [17:03:21] * RobertBachmann whished there weren't 1000 different wiki syntaxes
  123. [17:03:48] <DanC> yeah... shouldn't there be a standard markup language for hypertext? ;-)
  124. [17:04:40] * tantek points RobertBachmann to http://microformats.org/wiki/wiki-formats
  125. [17:04:46] <DanC> pbwiki seems to be a service. mediawiki is a software product
  126. [17:05:27] <tantek> DanC true that is a difference, but from a UI point of view, I'm really liking pbwiki
  127. [17:06:01] <DanC> is the software behind pbwiki opensource? if not, it's not a competitor in the sense I was thinking out loud about
  128. [17:06:14] <tantek> yes, that is true
  129. [17:06:24] <tantek> I don't know if the developers plan to open source it or not
  130. [17:06:49] <DanC> "You can download a ZIP file of your wiki pages from your Settings page" I wonder what format.
  131. [17:07:59] <DanC> pbwiki seems to endorse StudlyCaps, at least from a glance at http://yummy.pbwiki.com/ . That doesn't turn you off?
  132. [17:08:46] <tantek> it's wiki legacy
  133. [17:08:59] * tantek wonders if anyone here reads Dutch: http://blog.volume12.net/2768.htm
  134. [17:09:30] * tantek is guessing at the content-language because it is not specified, though ironically, there is a meta ICBM specified.
  135. [17:09:38] <DanC> I don't see any moneymaking aspect to pbwiki. I wonder how they'll keep it going
  136. [17:13:01] <mfbot> [[hreview]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=4694 * KimBayne * (+282) Examples in the wild -
  137. [17:13:57] <DanC> ah... ads by google
  138. [17:14:27] <mfbot> [[hreview]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=4695 * KimBayne * (+20) Examples in the wild -
  139. [17:15:05] <qid> "StudlyCaps"?
  140. [17:15:37] <qid> oh
  141. [17:16:14] <DanC> it's called CamelCase by advocates and StudlyCaps by detractors.
  142. [17:16:26] <qid> I think what they're using would more specifically be classified as "PascalCase"
  143. [17:16:55] <qid> CamelCase and PascalCase are similar subsets of StudlyCaps
  144. [17:17:12] * DanC wanders off to guard against whittling away the day on IRC...
  145. [17:17:27] <qid> wikipedia explains all
  146. [17:19:54] <tantek> DanC, pbwiki also has "premium" wikis
  147. [17:21:08] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4696 * RyanKing * (-143) took away warning
  148. [17:21:49] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=4697 * Tantek * (+194) Discussions -
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  152. [17:47:32] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  153. [17:50:16] <mfbot> [[media-metadata-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-metadata-examples&diff=0&oldid=4698 * Snowden * (+122) Formats &amp; Protocols -
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  155. [17:53:07] <mfbot> [[media-metadata-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-metadata-examples&diff=0&oldid=4699 * Snowden * (+76) Formats &amp; Protocols -
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  159. [18:35:22] <Ragdoll> Hello, I'm new to Microformats.
  160. [18:38:05] <Ragdoll> I have a question I was hoping someone could answer.
  161. [18:38:19] <tantek> welcome Ragdoll, how may we be of service?
  162. [18:38:58] <Ragdoll> I've put together an hCalendar event, and I'd like to display more information on another page.
  163. [18:39:28] <Ragdoll> I wasn't sure how detailed hCalendar got. For instance, I'd like to write out a detailed description of a conference.
  164. [18:39:52] <Ragdoll> What time the lecture started, who is speaking, where they are from, etc.
  165. [18:40:27] <Ragdoll> Is this possible, or is hCalendar not that specific?
  166. [18:41:05] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit ()
  167. [18:45:23] <Ragdoll> Example: For this conference, at 1:45pm, the lecture is Looking Past Liberty Street given by Walt Aikman, who works with Grow Auburn's trees, and is from Auburn, NY. Is there anything about semantically breaking it up into these pieces?
  168. [18:48:24] <Ragdoll> (Also, how do I register my nickname on here?)
  169. [18:52:57] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@66.83.191.30.nw.nuvox.net) Quit (Excess Flood)
  170. [18:53:57] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@66.83.191.30.nw.nuvox.net) has joined #microformats
  171. [18:58:45] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  172. [18:58:45] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  173. [18:58:48] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  174. [18:59:06] <kingryan> hey everyone
  175. [18:59:34] <Ragdoll> Hello, kingryan
  176. [19:00:11] <kingryan> hey
  177. [19:00:24] <kingryan> DanC, I just saw what you added on hcalendar-brainstorming
  178. [19:00:53] * valmont (n=chrishol@germany.pspdev.pas.earthlink.net) has joined #microformats
  179. [19:01:41] <kingryan> ?def Ragdoll
  180. [19:01:42] <jibot> Nobody has defined Ragdoll yet
  181. [19:01:42] * DanC hesitates to swap this channel back in...
  182. [19:02:10] <Ragdoll> How do I register my nickname here?
  183. [19:02:23] <kingryan> I just wanted to point out brian's hcard-preflight xsl for some ideas
  184. [19:02:30] <bkdelong> Does hcalendar make allowances for "cancelling" events? I'm finding I want to mark whether I attended an event, did not attend the event, leave a "ghost" if the event was rescheduled, or if the event was cancelled.
  185. [19:02:35] <kingryan> ?learn ragdoll is learning to use jibot
  186. [19:02:36] <jibot> ragdoll is learning to use jibot
  187. [19:02:54] <kingryan> bkdelong, the html-ish way to do that is to <del> it
  188. [19:03:14] <Ragdoll> That makes sense to me.
  189. [19:03:19] <kingryan> and, have you looked at the rfc to see if there's a 'canceled' status
  190. [19:03:44] <bkdelong> I need to check that.
  191. [19:04:02] <DanC> bkdelong, vcalendar has status=cancelled
  192. [19:04:43] <kingryan> bkdelong, http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2445.txt section 4.8.1.11
  193. [19:05:02] <DanC> bkdelong, it also has partstat declined. http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/rfc2445#sec4.2.12
  194. [19:05:16] <pnhChris> yes.. but how you pick up on <del> without reading too much into it (perhaps its used just to mark up a description change
  195. [19:05:46] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  196. [19:05:53] <kingryan> pnhChris, I was assuming that you could <del> the whole thing
  197. [19:05:54] <Ragdoll> ?def Ragdoll
  198. [19:05:54] <jibot> Ragdoll is learning to use jibot
  199. [19:06:01] <kingryan> but changing the status is probably best
  200. [19:06:18] <kingryan> Ragdoll, if you /msg jibot help , he'll help you out
  201. [19:06:21] <pnhChris> del outsde the vevent'ed element?
  202. [19:06:37] <Ragdoll> Thanks
  203. [19:06:37] <kingryan> yeah, that was my thought
  204. [19:06:58] <pnhChris> sounds like hell on the parser
  205. [19:07:40] <kingryan> I think brian's already doing some <del> support on hcard
  206. [19:07:47] <kingryan> but, yeah, makes parsing harder
  207. [19:08:37] <pnhChris> not to mention xhtml nightmares
  208. [19:08:50] <mfbot> [[stock-symbol-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/stock-symbol-examples * JohnPanzer * (+459)
  209. [19:09:56] <mfbot> [[stock-symbol-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=stock-symbol-examples&diff=0&oldid=4700 * JohnPanzer * (+57)
  210. [19:17:12] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4701 * RyanKing * (+49) Feed (atom:feed) - marked hfeed as resolved
  211. [19:18:03] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4702 * RyanKing * (+52) Entry (atom:entry) - marked 'hentry' as resolved
  212. [19:23:19] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4703 * RyanKing * (+11) Initial Proposal - <del>'ing previous status message
  213. [19:25:10] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4704 * RyanKing * (+65) Entry Title (atom:title) - marked 'entry title' issue as resolved
  214. [19:27:52] * TantekC (n=Tantek@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  215. [19:28:06] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4705 * RyanKing * (+40) Entry Permalink (atom:link) - putting note at top of 'link' section
  216. [19:28:52] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4706 * RyanKing * (+12) Entry Published (atom:published) - just formatting some stuffs
  217. [19:31:19] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4707 * RyanKing * (+167) Entry Published (atom:published) - added some discussion
  218. [19:31:23] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  219. [19:31:23] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
  220. [19:32:05] <tantek> Ragdoll, did you get your hCalendar question answered?
  221. [19:32:20] <tantek> It would help if you could post a URL to what you have so far
  222. [19:33:45] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4708 * RyanKing * (+81) Entry Author (atom:author) - added some discussion
  223. [19:38:31] <mfbot> [[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=4709 * RyanKing * (-105) Draft Specification - removed redundant 'authors section'
  224. [19:40:58] <Ragdoll> I didn't.
  225. [19:41:07] <kingryan> Ragdoll, url?
  226. [19:41:13] <kingryan> and what was your question?
  227. [19:41:59] <Ragdoll> I've tried to sift through the iCalendar spec, and I think I've got it down...
  228. [19:42:17] <Ragdoll> I don't have a public URL yet...
  229. [19:42:27] <kingryan> k, its a bit tough to help, then
  230. [19:43:00] <Ragdoll> I just wasn't sure if there was specific elements for speakers, credentials, etc.
  231. [19:43:20] <kingryan> you can use the attendees stuff for that
  232. [19:43:27] <Ragdoll> Like: Time, Lecture, Speaker, Credentials
  233. [19:43:50] <Ragdoll> How does that work in hCalendar?
  234. [19:43:57] <kingryan> good question
  235. [19:44:06] <Ragdoll> Is it just a list?
  236. [19:44:32] <kingryan> it can be
  237. [19:44:56] <Ragdoll> I'll upload a page and let you look at what I have.
  238. [19:44:57] <kingryan> you can use class~="attendee"
  239. [19:45:08] <kingryan> I did it here http://theryanking.com/we.html for speakers
  240. [19:45:21] <kingryan> (that's a modified version of WebEssentials05's schedule)
  241. [19:45:28] <tantek> there is ATTENDEE, but per RFC2445 it is supposed to be an email address.
  242. [19:45:41] <tantek> as an improvement for hCalendar, I believe recommend putting an hCard there
  243. [19:45:52] <tantek> e.g. <span class="attendee vcard"> ...
  244. [19:47:22] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples&diff=0&oldid=4710 * RyanKing * (+0) fixed some formatting
  245. [19:47:31] <Ragdoll> The conference Agenda is here (it's not finished yet): http://arborday.org/programs/conferences/communityforestry/agenda.cfm
  246. [19:47:55] <Ragdoll> (And the hCalendar for the event is here: http://arborday.org/programs/conferences/communityforestry/ , just FYI)
  247. [19:49:00] <kingryan> on the second one, you could hcard the location
  248. [19:51:49] <Ragdoll> hCard the location?
  249. [19:52:37] <tantek> <span class="location vcard"> ...
  250. [19:54:12] <Ragdoll> Is there a list and description of all the available classes, or are they only in the iCalendar spec? That would help a lot, methinks...
  251. [19:54:31] <tantek> Ragdoll, yes, that is a very good suggestion
  252. [19:54:39] <trovster> Is something like <code lang="html"> valid?
  253. [19:54:40] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  254. [19:54:41] * tantek needs to add that to his hcalendar to-do
  255. [19:54:53] <tantek> trovster, as much as we might like it to be, unfortunately not
  256. [19:54:54] <trovster> Not valid, per-se, correct...
  257. [19:55:07] <tantek> lang must be one of the standard RFC3339 (I think) language codes
  258. [19:55:18] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  259. [19:55:21] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  260. [19:55:30] <qid> lang means a human language, not a computer language
  261. [19:55:57] <tantek> sorry, RFC3066
  262. [19:56:08] <tantek> qid, in particular, anything defined in RFC3066
  263. [19:56:16] <trovster> Says [RFC1766]..
  264. [19:56:21] * danja (i=DannyAye@host81-218.pool80104.interbusiness.it) has joined #microformats
  265. [19:56:26] <tantek> right, it has been obsoleted by 3066 AFAIK
  266. [19:56:43] <qid> I seem to recall something about being able to use custom language codes starting with x- or something
  267. [19:57:10] <trovster> Obsoletes: 1766 damn :)
  268. [19:57:12] <qid> although that's all kinds of risky
  269. [19:57:17] <tantek> see http://www.evertype.com/standards/iso639/iana-lang-assignments.html
  270. [19:57:48] <qid> <code class="html"> is about as good as you can get I think
  271. [19:57:48] <tantek> note: i-klingon, sgn-US
  272. [19:58:07] <tantek> yes, that is what is in current use as well
  273. [19:58:08] <trovster> qid: Aye, that's what I use.
  274. [19:58:19] <tantek> that and <code class="css">
  275. [19:58:54] <trovster> <code class="php"> or anything :D
  276. [19:59:04] <qid> tantek: i-klingon is deprecated :-p
  277. [19:59:06] <trovster> Shame you can't do it with markdown
  278. [19:59:08] <tantek> noticed that
  279. [19:59:18] <tantek> you might able to propose a new lang prefix for computer languages
  280. [19:59:39] <qid> Klingon has a registered language code, "tlh"
  281. [19:59:41] <tantek> e.g. cl-
  282. [19:59:41] <qid> hah
  283. [19:59:43] <tantek> cl-html
  284. [19:59:48] <tantek> cl-css, cl-php etc.
  285. [19:59:56] <tantek> then once that got accepted
  286. [20:00:03] <tantek> you could use lang="cl-html" etc.
  287. [20:00:15] <Ragdoll> Can <div class="org"> also be <span class="org">?
  288. [20:00:19] <tantek> yes
  289. [20:00:27] <TantekC> i believe that is in the faq
  290. [20:00:42] <Ragdoll> ah, thank you
  291. [20:01:50] <qid> kingryan: FYI you carried over the invalid fragment identifiers from the WE05 schedule, dunno if that page is something active that's worth fixing
  292. [20:03:11] <Ragdoll> I wish there weren't such an abundance of abbreviations. "fn" might be shorter, but I find "full-name" to be much more readable.
  293. [20:03:35] <Ragdoll> I realize it's probably a moot point at the moment; just ranting.
  294. [20:10:37] * _psychic_ (n=john@71.32.228.156) has joined #microformats
  295. [20:12:53] * csarven (n=nevrasc@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3577912.sympatico.ca) has joined #microformats
  296. [20:14:34] * BenjaminCarlyle (n=fuzzy@c210-49-65-65.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #microformats
  297. [20:14:35] <jibot> BenjaminCarlyle is http://soundadvice.id.au/blog/, GMT 1000
  298. [20:15:15] * BenjaminCarlyl1 (n=fuzzy@c210-49-65-65.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #microformats
  299. [20:15:36] * BenjaminCarlyl1 (n=fuzzy@c210-49-65-65.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Client Quit)
  300. [20:18:43] <factoryjoe> so um
  301. [20:18:58] <factoryjoe> go here NOW: http://37signals.com/svn/archives2/getting_real_help_us_put_out_the_campfire.php
  302. [20:19:03] <factoryjoe> cks, tantek
  303. [20:19:09] <factoryjoe> IRC in the browser
  304. [20:19:20] <Ragdoll> Can region be written out and abbrviated (i.e. Nebraska and NE)?
  305. [20:19:45] <factoryjoe> i think so
  306. [20:19:49] <factoryjoe> use title
  307. [20:20:13] <Ragdoll> Meaning?
  308. [20:20:39] <Ragdoll> And can an element be left empty, as in: <a class="url" href="index.cfm"></a>
  309. [20:20:57] <Ragdoll> Er, tag, not element.
  310. [20:23:52] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-81-161-155.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
  311. [20:26:38] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-81-161-155.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  312. [20:37:28] <factoryjoe> uh
  313. [20:37:29] <factoryjoe> no
  314. [20:37:35] <factoryjoe> that wouldn't make sense
  315. [20:37:47] <factoryjoe> better to not include it at all
  316. [20:46:45] * limbo_ is now known as limbo_stuff
  317. [20:49:26] <Ragdoll> But it doesn't show up on the site it's on (people know where the web site is, because they're already on it), and it's still readable by machines who are collecting the data.
  318. [20:55:30] <BenjaminCarlyle> Ragdoll: The microformat ideal is that data is readable by both. If you just want a machine to read it, you might as well just be publishing XML or RDF.
  319. [20:55:42] <BenjaminCarlyle> It is the visibility of data that keeps it accurate and relevant.
  320. [20:56:23] <Ragdoll> This hcard isn't showing up properly in Tails; it's not showing any of the name.
  321. [20:56:24] <Ragdoll> Would this be correct?:
  322. [20:56:26] <Ragdoll> <div class="location vcard">
  323. [20:56:28] <Ragdoll> <div class="n">
  324. [20:56:29] <Ragdoll> <div class="given-name">Arbor Day Farm</div>
  325. [20:56:31] <Ragdoll> <div class="additional-name">Lied Lodge &amp; Conference Center</div>
  326. [20:56:32] <Ragdoll> </div>
  327. [20:56:34] <Ragdoll> <div class="adr">
  328. [20:56:35] <Ragdoll> <span class="locality">Nebraska City</span>,
  329. [20:56:37] <Ragdoll> <span class="region">Nebraska</span>
  330. [20:56:38] <Ragdoll> </div>
  331. [20:56:40] <Ragdoll> </div>
  332. [20:56:41] <Ragdoll> Thanks, BenjaminCarlyle, that makes sense.
  333. [20:57:13] <BenjaminCarlyle> It is usually necessary to have vcard on an element by itself to avoid abiguity...
  334. [20:58:17] <Ragdoll> It was suggested earlier that I "hCard the location" by kingryan and tantek.
  335. [21:03:40] <BenjaminCarlyle> Ahh, I see.
  336. [21:03:51] * chazegh (n=chazegh@ip70-187-152-58.oc.oc.cox.net) has joined #microformats
  337. [21:04:02] <BenjaminCarlyle> location is your own css class name.
  338. [21:05:53] <Ragdoll> What does that mean?
  339. [21:06:55] * LTjake (n=brian@h64-5-219-130.gtcust.grouptelecom.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]")
  340. [21:08:50] <chazegh> sorry if this is a really basic question, but are there techniques discovering instances of microformats using google?
  341. [21:11:40] <Ragdoll> The microformats.org wiki has a lot of user-submitted examples.
  342. [21:12:58] <BenjaminCarlyle> Ragdoll: For some reason I was thinking the location class was part of your vcard content.
  343. [21:22:53] <tantek> Ragdoll, it appears that your location hCard is missing the required "fn"
  344. [21:23:20] <tantek> and what you are marking up is an organization, rather than a person, and there is a specific thing you do for that (fn==org)
  345. [21:23:34] <Ragdoll> Oh, I see.
  346. [21:23:40] * tantek looks for example
  347. [21:24:13] <tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#Organization_Contact_Info
  348. [21:24:23] <tantek> that's the explanation
  349. [21:25:38] <Ragdoll> Thank you, I will look at it.
  350. [21:26:51] <mfbot> [[hatom-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-examples * RyanKing * (+17587) moving examples
  351. [21:26:57] <mfbot> [[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=4711 * RyanKing * (-17573) Examples -
  352. [21:27:28] * tantek edits to-do
  353. [21:27:51] * izo_ (n=izo@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
  354. [21:29:58] <mfbot> [[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=4712 * RyanKing * (+20) Normative References - adding hcard-parsing as a normative reference
  355. [21:42:29] * _psychic1 (n=john@71.32.228.156) has joined #microformats
  356. [21:42:49] <Ragdoll> So is something like this correct?
  357. [21:42:50] <Ragdoll> <div class="location vcard">
  358. [21:42:52] <Ragdoll> <div class="fn org"><h4>Arbor Day Farm</h4></div>
  359. [21:42:53] <Ragdoll> <div class="org"><h4>Lied Lodge &amp; Conference Center</h4></div>
  360. [21:42:55] <Ragdoll> </div>
  361. [21:43:36] * _psychic_ (n=john@71.32.228.156) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
  362. [21:43:42] <tantek> I'm not sure about the two orgs
  363. [21:43:47] <tantek> are you trying to say there are two orgs?
  364. [21:44:04] * _psychic1 is now known as _psychic_
  365. [21:45:02] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl081-246-197.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  366. [21:45:58] <Ragdoll> Sort of. Lied is like a sub-organization to Arbor Day Farm.
  367. [21:48:30] <mfbot> [[to-do]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=4713 * Tantek * (+338) reorganize a bit and add some recent requests from IRC
  368. [21:48:55] <tantek> then you probably want to use organization-name and organization-unit
  369. [21:48:59] <tantek> e.g.
  370. [21:49:38] <tantek> <div class="fn org"><h4 class="organization-name">Arbor Day Farm</h4>
  371. [21:49:51] <tantek> <h4 class="organization-unit">Lied Lodge &amp; Conference Center</h4></div>
  372. [21:49:56] <tantek> (note the one fewer div)
  373. [21:51:36] <mfbot> [[to-do]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=4714 * Tantek * (+77) add example usage for organization-name and organization-unit
  374. [21:55:13] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@66.83.191.30.nw.nuvox.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]")
  375. [21:55:47] <mfbot> [[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=4715 * RyanKing * (-380) Deferred Elements - moving to faq
  376. [21:56:48] <mfbot> [[hatom]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=4716 * RyanKing * (-23) Parsing Details - killing empty section
  377. [21:58:17] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  378. [22:00:10] <Ragdoll> Ah, brilliant!
  379. [22:02:13] <Ragdoll> I think that was the last of my questions for now. Thanks, tantek and the rest. You've been a huge help.
  380. [22:04:19] <mfbot> [[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=4717 * RyanKing * (-90) Schema - decrufting
  381. [22:04:25] <kingryan> you're welcome Ragdoll
  382. [22:05:05] <mfbot> [[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=4718 * RyanKing * (+30) Introduction -
  383. [22:05:38] <tantek> Ragdoll, glad to be of help. Come back anytime.
  384. [22:06:26] <mfbot> [[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=4719 * RyanKing * (-160) In General -
  385. [22:07:07] * bewest|work (n=bewest@c-69-138-89-146.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
  386. [22:08:47] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  387. [22:08:47] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda and brian suda of X2V fame
  388. [22:09:36] <tantek> ?forget briansuda is brian suda
  389. [22:09:36] <jibot> I now only know that briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
  390. [22:09:47] <tantek> ?def briansuda
  391. [22:09:47] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
  392. [22:10:46] * keithalexander (n=keithale@87.112.10.231.bbplus.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net) has joined #microformats
  393. [22:11:22] <mfbot> [[hatom-tutorial]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-tutorial * RyanKing * (+916) moving "hints and tips"
  394. [22:11:34] <mfbot> [[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=4720 * RyanKing * (-851) Hints and Tips - moving "hints and tips"
  395. [22:20:12] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) Quit ()
  396. [22:21:40] <mfbot> [[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=4721 * RyanKing * (-373) Entry Title - removing some redundancy
  397. [22:27:11] <mfbot> [[hatom]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=4722 * RyanKing * (-65) Entry Published - removing an aside
  398. [22:27:28] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) Quit (Connection timed out)
  399. [22:28:42] <mfbot> [[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=4723 * RyanKing * (+7) Entry Published - cleaning up class name verbiage
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  402. [22:41:40] * Ragdoll (n=chatzill@rrcs-67-52-54-196.west.biz.rr.com) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]")
  403. [22:54:00] * chazegh_ (n=chazegh@vc240198.vpn.uci.edu) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  404. [22:57:09] <mfbot> [[hreview]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=4724 * RyanKing * (+12) Schema - adding link to rel-tag spec
  405. [23:01:20] <mfbot> [[hreview]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=4725 * Tantek * (-7) Schema -
  406. [23:11:36] <mfbot> [[resume-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4726 * RyanKing * (+1750) Strawman Outline - adding a first-round draft
  407. [23:11:59] * danja (i=DannyAye@host81-218.pool80104.interbusiness.it) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  408. [23:11:59] <kingryan> ^^^ first pass at hresume format
  409. [23:16:12] <mfbot> [[hreview]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=4727 * RyanKing * (-32) Normative References - changing atom reference to the normative link
  410. [23:16:36] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) Quit ("leaving")
  411. [23:19:03] <mfbot> [[resume-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4728 * RyanKing * (+294) Format -
  412. [23:19:55] <mfbot> [[resume-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4729 * RyanKing * (-93) Field details - simplifying
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