IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-02-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:13:51] * cks (n=cks@ppp-70-248-121-149.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #microformats
  2. [00:13:51] <jibot> cks is Christopher St. John and has a brain filled with inane drivel from irc chat logs
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  6. [00:30:37] <mfbot> [[hresume]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=4730 * RyanKing * (-269) Concept -
  7. [00:31:04] <mfbot> [[hresume]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=4731 * RyanKing * (+296) See also -
  8. [00:31:25] <mfbot> [[hresume]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=4732 * RyanKing * (-95) Acknowledgments -
  9. [00:31:41] <mfbot> [[hresume]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=4733 * RyanKing * (-4) Draft Specification -
  10. [00:43:05] * cks (n=cks@ppp-70-248-121-149.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) Quit ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
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  12. [01:05:28] <mfbot> [[hresume]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=4734 * RyanKing * (+97) trying out some restructuring
  13. [01:07:38] <mfbot> [[hresume]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=4735 * RyanKing * (-18) removing abstract
  14. [01:10:45] <mfbot> [[hresume]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=4736 * RyanKing * (+4)
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  16. [01:32:36] <mfbot> [[hresume]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=4737 * Tantek * (+247)
  17. [01:32:52] <mfbot> [[hresume]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=4738 * Tantek * (-5) Microformats Draft Specification -
  18. [01:33:23] <mfbot> [[hresume]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=4739 * Tantek * (+2) Microformats Draft Specification -
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  20. [01:35:14] <mfbot> [[hresume]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=4740 * Tantek * (+7)
  21. [01:35:35] <mfbot> [[hresume]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=4741 * Tantek * (+5)
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  23. [01:39:09] <jibot> cks is Christopher St. John and has a brain filled with inane drivel from irc chat logs
  24. [01:44:47] <tantek> congrats everyone! Microformats is a finalist in the SXSW 2006 Web Awards: http://2006.sxsw.com/interactive/web_awards/finalists/
  25. [01:45:02] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
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  28. [01:49:46] <limbo_> tantek, together with odeo and slide?
  29. [01:50:12] <limbo_> oh well...
  30. [01:53:40] * Snowden (n=some@c-67-171-198-120.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  31. [01:59:32] <mfbot> [[hresume]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=4742 * RyanKing * (+236)
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  35. [02:27:44] <mfbot> [[xmdp-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xmdp-examples&diff=0&oldid=4743 * DClifton * (+117) XMDP Examples in the Wild -
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  53. [04:40:37] <PhilAshlock> anyone available to offer advice on contributing to microformats.org? Specifically, the idea of a Zen Garden?
  54. [04:41:33] <PhilAshlock> I'm in a position where I can essentially be paid by my employer to work on development and implementation
  55. [04:41:59] <PhilAshlock> especially with hCalendar
  56. [04:42:16] <PhilAshlock> but if anyone has some pointers for getting involved, i'd love to hear them
  57. [04:43:36] <markmansour> to all: I have written a hCalendar parser would like to get some feedback on it privately before I release it to the big bad world. If you're interested, could you send me a email to mark@lifelint.com
  58. [04:43:49] <markmansour> unless you are sitting here in IRC and just wanna speak up...
  59. [04:44:24] <PhilAshlock> where can i get it?
  60. [04:44:40] <PhilAshlock> oh, sorry. I'll email you
  61. [04:44:47] <factoryjoe> what's it written in?
  62. [04:44:51] <factoryjoe> can i dump it into a browser?
  63. [04:45:15] <markmansour> It's all server side stuff - not open source (well, not at the moment anyway)
  64. [04:45:35] <PhilAshlock> for apache? php? can you be more specific?
  65. [04:46:10] <markmansour> I'll be back in 2 hours.. gotta run.
  66. [04:46:30] <PhilAshlock> ok...?
  67. [04:46:35] <markmansour> :)
  68. [04:46:55] <PhilAshlock> i'll send you an email, i won't be around in 2 hours
  69. [04:47:13] <factoryjoe> heh
  70. [04:47:25] <factoryjoe> PhilAshlock: take a look at the process on the MF wiki
  71. [04:47:30] <cks> PhilAshlock: http://microformats.org/wiki/zen-garden?
  72. [04:47:41] <factoryjoe> PhilAshlock: /wiki/process
  73. [04:47:51] <factoryjoe> ok, i'm out
  74. [04:47:53] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl001-150-100.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  75. [04:48:02] <PhilAshlock> yeah, i reviewed that
  76. [04:49:05] <PhilAshlock> I don't necessarily want to develop a new microformat, I mostly want to offer time and design/coding skills to making an attractive Zen Garden like implemntation of some of the existing microformats
  77. [04:49:28] <PhilAshlock> especially hCalendar. I have a good resource and live data source & community to develop with
  78. [04:49:48] <PhilAshlock> not to mention getting paid for it, I'm a student and working for my school (Western Washington University)
  79. [04:50:10] <PhilAshlock> so, essentially I'm just getting a sense for where it would be best to invest my efforts
  80. [04:51:10] <PhilAshlock> I suppose I'll just add myself to the "interested parties" section of the ZenGarden page, try to get in touch with the others listed there and see where i can go from there. Doesn't seem like that idea has gone to far, so I'd like to help out
  81. [04:51:43] <cks> mailing list archives, around 10/22/05, "Microformats Zen Garden" is where that stuff got started, I think
  82. [04:52:35] <PhilAshlock> cool thanks. do you know if there stuff there worth checking out that's not available elsewhere?
  83. [04:54:04] <cks> mostly who thought of what and who volunteered to do what
  84. [04:55:53] <PhilAshlock> k, thanks
  85. [04:56:46] <PhilAshlock> it's kind of weird how the Zen Garden Interested parties section (http://microformats.org/wiki/zen-garden) feels so much like a Talk page
  86. [04:57:09] <PhilAshlock> and i guess i'm just going to be adding to that, that's why i thought i'd get some words in here first
  87. [04:58:13] <cks> the uf zen garden was a good idea, it could use some luvin'
  88. [04:58:57] <PhilAshlock> yeah, i totally agree
  89. [05:00:56] <PhilAshlock> I especially want to work with implementations of the hCalendar format and I can probably get some good direction in working with that because I'm working with George Dyson, Esther Dyson's sister. Esther has been really into the idea of new paradigms in time-management - http://www.release1-0.com/freshproduce/newideas_timecount.cfm
  90. [05:01:15] <PhilAshlock> and my school is making some pretty radical changes with university integration of calendar systems
  91. [05:01:52] <PhilAshlock> hehe, i mean Esther Dyson's brother.
  92. [05:02:38] <pnhChris> yeah.. hcalendar would be good starting point... not sure how exciting a relLicense zen garden would be :P
  93. [05:02:50] <PhilAshlock> hehe, yeah
  94. [05:03:52] <PhilAshlock> do you know about any development for a microformat that could mediate photo sharing functions like Flickr, iPhoto's "photocasting", or the Slide rss image sharing system?
  95. [05:05:25] * markmansour (n=markmans@dsl-202-173-156-87.vic.westnet.com.au) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  96. [05:05:45] <mfbot> [[User:PhilipAshlock]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:PhilipAshlock * PhilipAshlock * (+75)
  97. [05:05:56] <mfbot> [[zen-garden]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=zen-garden&diff=0&oldid=4744 * PhilipAshlock * (+377) Interested parties -
  98. [05:07:44] <PhilAshlock> thank you mfbot, that's very informative
  99. [05:07:59] <PhilAshlock> typos!
  100. [05:08:27] <mfbot> [[zen-garden]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=zen-garden&diff=0&oldid=4745 * PhilipAshlock * (+0) Interested parties -
  101. [05:12:58] <mfbot> [[zen-garden]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=zen-garden&diff=0&oldid=4746 * PhilipAshlock * (+51) Interested parties -
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  104. [05:21:09] <mfbot> [[zen-garden]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=zen-garden&diff=0&oldid=4747 * PhilipAshlock * (+26) Interested parties -
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  114. [06:26:16] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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  120. [07:56:17] <KevinMarks> http://icite.net/blog/200601/nanoformats.html
  121. [07:56:26] <KevinMarks> missing the point a fair bit
  122. [08:03:27] <Tantek> every good idea spawns numerous mutations
  123. [08:04:04] <KevinMarks> i remember him and his eternlly refactored project, but not what it was trying to do
  124. [08:11:30] <markmansour> Hey guys'n'gals. I've developed an hCalendar parser and was after some feedback before I made the service publicly available. Would you be interested in taking a peek? http://lifelint.net/
  125. [08:14:14] <Tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar
  126. [08:15:23] <markmansour> Tantek - ?
  127. [08:15:39] * valmont (n=chrishol@dsl092-043-004.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  128. [08:16:20] * ChanServ sets mode +o Tantek
  129. [08:16:46] <KevinMarks> teyou did a better job on the timezoneless ones at http://openrightsgroup.org than X2V
  130. [08:17:38] <markmansour> kevin - I know I still have some tz issues - like I don't do all day events propery, but I think I'm pretty much there
  131. [08:17:50] <markmansour> but thanks :)
  132. [08:18:10] * Tantek sets mode +o KevinMarks
  133. [08:19:33] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  134. [08:28:34] <markmansour> if you guys have long comments on lifelint.net, please feel free to email me at mark@lifelint.com. I'm always ready for a discussion on hCalendar
  135. [08:37:01] <mfbot> [[xmdp-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xmdp-examples&diff=0&oldid=4748 * Tantek * (+694) fix link to link to actual xmdp
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  138. [11:48:54] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  139. [11:48:54] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
  140. [12:07:18] <Frederic> trovster: this csloungee thing is nice
  141. [12:08:24] <trovster> Thanks, not been updated in a while :(
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  145. [14:21:57] <ben__> Morning?
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  151. [17:49:04] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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  153. [18:32:34] <mfbot> [[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=4749 * Tantek * (+169) New Examples -
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  156. [18:58:50] <mfbot> [[hreview]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=4750 * Tantek * (+306) Implementations -
  157. [19:07:52] <mfbot> [[geo]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=4751 * Tantek * (+184) Implementations -
  158. [19:36:04] <Tantek> good morning
  159. [19:37:21] * _psychic_ (n=john@c-24-2-78-210.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  160. [19:38:48] * Tantek changes topic to 'blog-info / cite / media-info || add yourself to http://microformats.org/wiki/irc || http://www.digital-web.com/articles/microformats_primer/ | Channel is logged: http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot'
  161. [19:41:31] <Tantek> i'm interested in discussing the specific problem of how to markup the links to feeds for a blog
  162. [19:42:00] <Tantek> links to feeds of a blog being just one part of "blog-info" about a blog
  163. [19:42:19] <Tantek> there are two interesting cases (which may require separate solutions, but for now, let's discuss both)
  164. [19:43:01] <Tantek> case 1: on the blog itself
  165. [19:43:36] <Tantek> the hAtom work has done a great job of how to markup the posts/entries in a blog - so that is effectively a "solved" problem
  166. [19:43:43] <Tantek> the posts/entries part that is
  167. [19:44:14] <Tantek> and on a blog itself, there are well established conventions (though I would love to see some canonical links to be able to reference) for how to link to the feeds for a blog
  168. [19:44:57] <Tantek> <link rel="alternate" type="application/xml+atom" href="http://example.com/blog/posts.atom" title="feed for example blog" />
  169. [19:45:01] <Tantek> or even
  170. [19:45:54] <Tantek> <a href="http://example.com/blog/posts.atom" rel="alternate" type="application/xml+atom" title="feed for example blog"><img src="cheeseygraphic.gif" /></a>
  171. [19:46:24] * pnhChris just wants the <a> case to be obsolete already :P
  172. [19:46:32] <Tantek> oops. s/application\/xml+atom/application\/atom+xml
  173. [19:46:44] <Tantek> chris, why?
  174. [19:46:59] <Tantek> the <a> case should be preferred IMHO because it is *visible* whereas the <link>s are not
  175. [19:47:15] <pnhChris> well.. i want UAs to get smarter
  176. [19:47:22] <Tantek> or are you just wanting the cheeseygraphic.gif to be obsolete? :)
  177. [19:47:23] <pnhChris> thus obsoleting the inline case
  178. [19:47:30] * _psychic_ (n=john@c-24-2-78-210.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) Quit ()
  179. [19:47:53] <pnhChris> its not just the graphic
  180. [19:48:15] <Tantek> the inline case is still useful for illustration, let me get to the second major case
  181. [19:48:50] <Tantek> so if the first major case is a blog itself linking to its feeds (and perhaps providing other informationa about itself, e.g. author - using <address class="vcard"> natch)
  182. [19:49:05] <Tantek> then the second major case is when describing *other* blogs, e.g. in blogrolls
  183. [19:49:20] <Tantek> e.g. take a look at Jon Udell's blogroll: http://weblog.infoworld.com/udell/
  184. [19:49:31] <KevinMarks> http://xml.coverpages.org/draft-ietf-atompub-autodiscovery-01.txt
  185. [19:49:35] <Tantek> note that it is a list of tiny orange xml buttons and the feeds
  186. [19:49:40] <KevinMarks> is the draft for the <link>
  187. [19:49:45] <Tantek> and the links to the blogs themselves
  188. [19:49:46] <pnhChris> yeah.. and i realize there is real world use for the inline case given browsers.. i just don't care for feeling the *need* to find a spot in a layout for the badge/link/button stuff that sometimes doesn't related to any place in the document/layout
  189. [19:50:15] <Tantek> chris, it certainly shouldn't be required to find such a spot, but it shouldn't be banned either
  190. [19:50:26] <pnhChris> Tantek: yes, and soemthing like http://www.itconversations.com/rss.html too
  191. [19:50:26] <KevinMarks> discussion http://diveintomark.org/archives/2003/12/19/atom-autodiscovery
  192. [19:50:49] <pnhChris> i know.. sorry for my errant comment ;)
  193. [19:51:09] <Tantek> Kevin, that draft has expired, do you know if there is any attempt to updated it?
  194. [19:51:20] <Tantek> or is an expired draft the best we have to go on for now?
  195. [19:51:58] <Tantek> chris, yes, good additional example. thanks.
  196. [19:52:35] <Tantek> does "blog-info" capture what we are talking about? the aspects of a blog that people talk about / mention when referencing a blog?
  197. [19:53:40] <Tantek> if there are no objections to calling this problem "blog-info" then I will go ahead and create blog-info-examples
  198. [19:54:11] <KevinMarks> this is the originla rss one
  199. [19:54:12] <KevinMarks> http://diveintomark.org/archives/2002/06/02/important_change_to_the_link_tag
  200. [19:56:09] <KevinMarks> http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/05nov/IDs/draft-ietf-atompub-autodiscovery-01.txt
  201. [19:56:29] <KevinMarks> is the same one
  202. [20:02:48] <Tantek> no objections heard, /me goes to create blog-info-examples
  203. [20:03:01] * tantek_ (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  204. [20:05:51] <KevinMarks> in mf terms, the fact that almost all blog tools impleent the <link> alternate winds over ietf lag
  205. [20:05:58] <KevinMarks> s/winds/wins/
  206. [20:15:14] * BenjaminCarlyle (n=fuzzy@c210-49-65-65.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #microformats
  207. [20:15:14] <jibot> BenjaminCarlyle is http://soundadvice.id.au/blog/, GMT 1000
  208. [20:15:42] <ben__> Hi there. Does anyone know if an hreview validator exists anywhere?
  209. [20:16:26] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) has joined #microformats
  210. [20:22:20] <mfbot> [[blog-info-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/blog-info-examples * Tantek * (+2226) created first version with real world examples
  211. [20:22:42] <Tantek> hi ben, no hReview validator yet, but it seems like a very good request
  212. [20:24:08] <ben__> Hi Tantek. Thanks. Second question, is anyone interested in collaborating on an hReview validator?
  213. [20:24:46] <mfbot> [[to-do]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=4752 * Tantek * (+95) added request for hReview validator, reorganized LazyWeb section into subsections
  214. [20:27:16] <BenjaminCarlyle> It may be worth considering validation for a range of microformats. Being able to run things through a parser to check validity is good, but where multiple parser implementations exist it is often useful to have validation to ensure everyone is playing from the same deck of cards. A nominated reference parser may also (or alternatively) be useful for each official microformat.
  215. [20:28:22] <Tantek> ben, I encourage you to add yourself to the to-do page, and grab the "hReview validator" item I just added, and note that you're looking for collaborators
  216. [20:28:49] <ben__> Benjamin, a reference parser would seem like a good step. We have some ruby code that parses a subset of hReviews - ie. those that we generate ourselves.
  217. [20:29:15] <Tantek> ben__ - are you Ben Griffiths?
  218. [20:29:20] <ben__> Perhaps it's worth me looking to do something with that.
  219. [20:29:25] <ben__> Yes!
  220. [20:30:01] <Tantek> Welcome! and thanks for your message to the list!
  221. [20:30:06] <ben__> We've been doing a lot of work with hReview recently.
  222. [20:30:24] <Tantek> I know Kritx.com is also parsing hReviews
  223. [20:30:47] <ben__> Yes, I think I'll drop kritx a line and see if we can collaborate.
  224. [20:31:11] <Tantek> but definitely add yourself to http://microformats.org/wiki/to-do
  225. [20:31:23] <ben__> OK. Will do.
  226. [20:31:41] <Tantek> I think there are some other folks working on hReview as well that would want to help out, and the to-do page is an adhoc way to find each other ;)
  227. [20:31:51] <Tantek> (for working on similar things)
  228. [20:32:53] <ben__> Absolutely. I'll ask our main developer on monday whether our parser is in a state to open source it right now.
  229. [20:33:20] <ben__> And we can maybe use it as a base to get started.
  230. [20:33:52] <Tantek> that would be great
  231. [20:34:15] <BenjaminCarlyle> ben__: Funky :)
  232. [20:34:54] <ben__> I suspect there's some code in it specific to us - but it's not particularly complicated and there are plenty of tests around it.
  233. [20:35:14] <ben__> OK. I must go now, but I'll announce to this list and add to the wiki when we've released something.
  234. [20:37:04] <Tantek> awesome, thanks ben!
  235. [20:40:44] * Tantek realizes http://microformats.org/wiki/blog-description-format needs some serious reorganization of content, given all the progress made on http://microformats.org/wiki/blog-post-examples etc.
  236. [20:42:20] * ben__ (n=ben@81-1-124-242.homechoice.co.uk) has left #microformats
  237. [20:43:37] <mfbot> [[blog-post-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-post-examples&diff=0&oldid=4753 * Tantek * (+286)
  238. [20:46:23] <mfbot> [[blog-description-format]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-description-format&diff=0&oldid=4754 * Tantek * (+429)
  239. [20:47:02] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  240. [20:47:03] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  241. [20:49:53] * amanuelt is now known as amanuel
  242. [21:01:45] <mfbot> [[blog-post-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-post-examples&diff=0&oldid=4755 * Tantek * (+820) moved blog-post examples that were in blog-description-format to here
  243. [21:02:07] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) Quit ("leaving")
  244. [21:04:56] <mfbot> [[blog-post-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-post-examples&diff=0&oldid=4756 * Tantek * (+578) moved more from blog-description-format to here
  245. [21:19:07] <mfbot> [[blog-description-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/blog-description-examples * Tantek * (+2524) created using content from blog-description-format
  246. [21:20:23] <mfbot> [[blog-description-format]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-description-format&diff=0&oldid=4757 * Tantek * (-1827) cleaned up a bit
  247. [21:20:44] <mfbot> [[blog-info-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=4758 * Tantek * (+2) Overall Notes About Examples -
  248. [21:20:49] <Tantek> ok, phew
  249. [21:20:57] <Tantek> done reorganizing blog-description-format I think
  250. [21:21:25] <Tantek> if anyone is interested in blog-info and blog-description, please take a look at blog-info-examples and blog-description-exaamples
  251. [21:21:26] <Tantek> thanks
  252. [21:22:05] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=4759 * Tantek * (+26) Exploratory discussions -
  253. [21:49:01] * Tantek (n=Tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ("via the nearest exit")
  254. [21:49:16] * tantek_ is now known as tantek
  255. [21:49:17] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  258. [23:36:10] <trovster> What are the minimum requirements for a hcard?
  259. [23:38:39] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  260. [23:38:39] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
  261. [23:46:02] * BenjaminCarlyle (n=fuzzy@c210-49-65-65.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) has left #microformats
  262. [23:48:44] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2421P012.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  263. [23:48:45] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: 01:00)
  264. [23:49:45] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2421P012.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Client Quit)
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