IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-02-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:03:45] <tantek> trovster, absolute minimum, just "fn"
  2. [00:04:41] <tantek> in essence you can markup any instance of a reference to a person with hCard
  3. [00:04:59] <tantek> <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">firstname lastname</span></span>
  4. [00:05:36] <tantek> if the reference is more than just given and family names (e.g. including middle or other names, prefixes etc), then you need to explicitly mark them up with "n"
  5. [00:06:04] <trovster> OK, and does class="url" need to be on the anchor specifically, or can it be on it's container?
  6. [00:11:40] <PhlipAshlock> and if "url" needs to be an anchor, does it need to wrap around both "n" and "fn" or even anything at all?
  7. [00:14:50] <tantek> class="url" should be on the hyperlink element, the <a href>
  8. [00:16:17] <tantek> PhlipAshlock, it doesn't need to wrap around the "n" or anything at all, though in common practice, people link to people with a hyperlink where the linktext is the person's name
  9. [00:16:40] <PhlipAshlock> but would something like the following be correct - <a class="url" href="http://tantek.com/">http://tantek.com/</a>
  10. [00:16:40] <PhlipAshlock> <span class="n" style="display:none"> <!-- hide this from display with CSS -->
  11. [00:16:40] <PhlipAshlock> <span class="family-name">´┐Żelik</span>
  12. [00:16:40] <PhlipAshlock> <span class="given-name">Tantek</span>
  13. [00:16:40] <PhlipAshlock> </span>
  14. [00:16:41] <PhlipAshlock> <span class="fn">Tantek ´┐Żelik</span>
  15. [00:17:11] <PhlipAshlock> or does the specification require the a tag to wrap around the "n"
  16. [00:17:16] <tantek> it would be valid hCard yes
  17. [00:17:21] <tantek> no the specification does not require that
  18. [00:17:23] <PhlipAshlock> ok, thanks
  19. [00:17:26] <tantek> it's just common practice
  20. [00:17:50] <tantek> in addition, in the case where the n and fn are simply given-name and family-name, you can shorten it
  21. [00:17:53] <tantek> like this
  22. [00:18:37] <tantek> see http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-example1-steps
  23. [00:19:19] <tantek> following DRY, and only marking up visible content
  24. [00:19:36] <PhlipAshlock> thanks, i was looking at that, but just needing some clarification
  25. [00:24:38] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  26. [00:27:15] <PhlipAshlock> tantek - I'm not sure if you noticed my update to "interested parties" on the zen garden page (http://microformats.org/wiki/zen-garden), but I would like to provide the necessary effort towards moving this idea forward. If this means developing a new site to do so, or working with microformats.org, I'm still attempting to determine what would be the best route to take. I've got a lot of resources to devote to this - time, mon
  27. [00:33:30] <tantek> Phlip, I'd first start with marking up some of the sites you work on with microformats to get some experience with using microformats, and go ahead an add them to the "Examples in the Wild" sections of those microformat specs.
  28. [00:33:49] <tantek> the list/channel is very good about checking out new examples and providing feedback/suggestions
  29. [00:35:01] <PhlipAshlock> excellent suggestion, thanks
  30. [00:35:24] <tantek> no problem at all. looking forward to seeing your sites!
  31. [00:37:52] <mfbot> [[press]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press&diff=0&oldid=4760 * Tantek * (+331)
  32. [00:58:52] <amanuel> ?def amanuel_
  33. [00:58:52] <jibot> amanuel_ is running The Intentional Web Initiative http://intentionalweb.org
  34. [00:59:03] <amanuel> ?def amanuelt
  35. [00:59:03] <jibot> Nobody has defined amanuelt yet
  36. [00:59:07] <amanuel> ?def amanuel
  37. [00:59:07] <jibot> amanuel is running The Intentional Web Initiative http://intentionalweb.org
  38. [01:04:46] * TantekC (n=Tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  39. [01:04:48] <tantek> can anyone get to any blogspot blogs?
  40. [01:05:04] <tantek> hey Kevin, I can't get to http://epeus.blogspot.com - can you?
  41. [01:05:29] <PhlipAshlock> i con't
  42. [01:05:51] <amanuel> nope
  43. [01:05:53] <PhlipAshlock> can't. nor something like http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=6&q=http://googleblog.blogspot.com/&e=9797
  44. [01:05:58] <PhlipAshlock> i mean http://googleblog.blogspot.com/
  45. [01:06:41] <amanuel> tantek: tried a couple here no go
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  47. [01:09:50] <tantek> ok it is confirmed. blogspot is down. if anyone knows any Blogger folks, please ping them (so to speak).
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  50. [01:26:19] <mfbot> [[rel-tag]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag&diff=0&oldid=4761 * Tantek * (+131) Discussions -
  51. [01:32:59] <pnhChris> it was down a bit last night too
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  56. [02:30:02] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4762 * ScottReynen * (+346) Discussion -
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  58. [02:38:58] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4763 * ScottReynen * (-5) hCards -
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  65. [03:26:17] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
  66. [03:32:08] <factoryjoe> tantek: where you at?
  67. [03:37:37] <tantek> hey chris
  68. [03:37:39] <tantek> at home
  69. [03:37:51] <factoryjoe> ah
  70. [03:37:55] <factoryjoe> i'm @ cttp w/ tara
  71. [03:38:08] <factoryjoe> you could come down eh?
  72. [03:40:19] <factoryjoe> tantek: ?
  73. [03:42:50] <limbo_> factoryjoe, turning canadian, eh?
  74. [03:43:13] <factoryjoe> too late
  75. [03:43:43] <limbo_> oh well...
  76. [03:45:10] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@adsl-072-148-043-048.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  77. [03:54:14] * TantekC leaves to go get dinner
  78. [03:54:18] * TantekC (n=Tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ("via the nearest exit")
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  82. [04:41:46] <markmansour> does anyone know what the correct way to represent unicode escape sequences in ascii text is?? I have the feeling there is no correct answer, but I am paring out entity refs such as &#8220; and I'm not sure how to convert them to ascii.
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  85. [06:17:52] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-81-161-155.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
  86. [06:38:02] <tantek> mark, AFAIK, "ASCII" has no escaping mechanism
  87. [06:38:37] <tantek> (X)HTML has numerical character entities which can be used to escape any character
  88. [06:38:53] <tantek> and similarly URL has % escaping too
  89. [07:22:09] <markmansour> tantek... thanks
  90. [07:24:21] <markmansour> It is a strange case I am looking at but entity 8220 is a double quote, but only for CP1250, but it's closest equiv is &rdquo;
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  92. [07:45:41] * bewest is now known as bewest|twain
  93. [07:46:54] * bewest|twain is now known as bewest
  94. [08:25:08] <mfbot> [[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=4764 * BenWest * (+1) In General -
  95. [08:55:05] <bewest> noticed a typo :-)
  96. [09:23:13] * amanuel (n=amanuel@d150-138-173.home.cgocable.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  109. [11:54:18] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  110. [11:54:18] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
  111. [12:29:00] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=4765 * Mark Mansour * (+104) new site with hCalendar
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  117. [17:00:34] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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  120. [17:13:50] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
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  122. [18:34:21] <mfbot> [[rel-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-faq&diff=0&oldid=4766 * Tantek * (-101) a little clean up
  123. [18:48:48] <mfbot> [[rel-tag-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-faq&diff=0&oldid=4767 * Tantek * (+2225) created from original contents, one rel-faq tag specific question, and mod-rewrite q
  124. [18:58:14] <mfbot> [[rel-tag-faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-faq&diff=0&oldid=4768 * Tantek * (+68)
  125. [18:58:55] <mfbot> [[rel-tag]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag&diff=0&oldid=4769 * Tantek * (+460) a little clean up and linked to rel-tag-faq
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  127. [19:28:46] <trovster> http://multipack.trovster.com/members/ would that be appropriate use of vcards ?
  128. [19:29:51] * danja (i=DannyAye@host253-217.pool80104.interbusiness.it) has joined #microformats
  129. [19:36:38] <factoryjoe> yeah, i would say so
  130. [19:36:59] <bewest> erm. so I'm reading hatom. I think I may be missing something
  131. [19:37:05] <bewest> what is the benefit of publishing in hatom?
  132. [19:37:38] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2436P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  133. [19:37:38] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: 01:00)
  134. [19:37:43] <factoryjoe> could become a replacement for RSS
  135. [19:37:50] <factoryjoe> so you only publish in HTML
  136. [19:37:54] <factoryjoe> and your reader can parse it
  137. [19:38:08] <bewest> hmm
  138. [19:39:08] <bewest> but a parser would have to be hatom-aware... an atom parser wouldn't be able to read hatom
  139. [19:39:18] <factoryjoe> right
  140. [19:39:39] <factoryjoe> it's also something that could be useful for mashups, etc
  141. [19:39:57] <bewest> factoryjoe: but presumably if you are using atom, you have a feed that _is_ atom
  142. [19:40:20] <bewest> in whcih case you'd have quite a bit of redundancy, right? published in hatom + native atom feed
  143. [19:40:52] <danja> the atom feed could be provided from the hAtom
  144. [19:40:58] <factoryjoe> right
  145. [19:41:02] <factoryjoe> the idea is to publish once
  146. [19:41:04] <danja> e.g. via xslt
  147. [19:41:04] <bewest> but them atom readers couldn't read it
  148. [19:41:19] <factoryjoe> well the idea is that next gen readers will be able to read it
  149. [19:41:22] <factoryjoe> i mean
  150. [19:41:24] <factoryjoe> it's just xhtml
  151. [19:41:31] <factoryjoe> with some standard classes
  152. [19:41:51] <bewest> anyone using hatom on their website?
  153. [19:41:53] <RobertBachmann> "We already have Atom feeds why bother with hAtom?" - Because feeds typicaly hold only used for the latest articles while hAtom is used for all articles.
  154. [19:41:54] <danja> (though the translation could occur at the publisher side)
  155. [19:41:56] <bewest> maybe an example will convince me
  156. [19:42:13] <tantek> bewest, atom readers could use the XSLT to parse the hAtom
  157. [19:42:18] <danja> what RobertBachmann said - free archives
  158. [19:42:31] <tantek> hAtom could enable the biggest growth in Atom 1.0 feeds ever
  159. [19:42:45] <bewest> ah xslt would be enough?
  160. [19:42:49] <tantek> and danja and Robert are correct as well - archives
  161. [19:42:53] <tantek> bewest, yes
  162. [19:42:55] <bewest> where would the xslt reside?
  163. [19:43:09] <tantek> it could be in lots of places
  164. [19:43:13] <bewest> presumably someone could publish a single xslt document that would work on all instances?
  165. [19:43:18] <tantek> correct
  166. [19:43:20] <bewest> ok
  167. [19:43:33] <bewest> the vice-versa is true as well?
  168. [19:43:36] <tantek> publishers could even transparently offer a "native
  169. [19:43:40] <tantek> atom feed"
  170. [19:43:54] <tantek> which on the server was simply an XSLT transform of their hAtom marked up (X)HTML
  171. [19:43:58] <bewest> you could publish in atom and do transparent xlst transformation to hatom for visitors based on UA?
  172. [19:44:06] <tantek> yes, you could do that as well
  173. [19:44:14] <bewest> any sense on which is better?
  174. [19:44:29] <tantek> bewest - up to the publisher
  175. [19:44:40] <bewest> ok thanks
  176. [19:44:53] <tantek> some folks just want to publish simple raw content, atom works well for that, and with an xslt, they would get a decent XHTML web page for nearly free
  177. [19:45:23] <tantek> for most folks though, they like to publish and have nice control over their presentation, so they do HTML first, and the using hAtom + XSLT can easily publish an Atom feed as well for all the Atom consumers
  178. [19:46:01] <bewest> yeah, I'm going after something like one of those
  179. [19:46:32] <bewest> no one here has implemented something like that?
  180. [19:46:59] * bewest reads the implementations section
  181. [19:51:20] <RobertBachmann> we currently have an XSLT for transforming a single page hAtom feed to Atom. It's not ready for production thought because it generates invalid Atom.
  182. [19:52:00] <RobertBachmann> and a parser in written by David Janes in Python
  183. [19:52:17] <bewest> ah... those are the magic words
  184. [19:54:55] <bewest> ah and David Janes has rdf on his site
  185. [19:56:48] <bewest> there seems to be some redundancy when using hatom + rdf. Are [h]atom and rdf competing technologies?
  186. [19:58:44] <RobertBachmann> RDF has a different purpose, it is for providing metadata. hAtom is for providing structure.
  187. [19:59:09] <RobertBachmann> The RDF used by David Janes is just for trackbacks (AFAIK)
  188. [20:00:29] * danja notes RDF can provide any kind of data, though in the context of XHTML docs it's usually metadata
  189. [20:02:51] <danja> - there is XSLT for XFN, hCard, hReview to RDF/XML, others on way
  190. [20:03:38] <bewest> then it's conceivable to publish in RDF and xslt to hatom/atom?
  191. [20:04:35] <danja> hmm...you probably wouldn't use xslt directly that way around
  192. [20:04:57] <RobertBachmann> danja, in your blog you wrote something about Atom2AtomOWL.xsl too, so theoreticaly we could do: xsltproc hAtom2Atom.xsl my.html | xsltproc Atom2AtomOWL.xsl -
  193. [20:05:22] <danja> indeed!
  194. [20:07:57] <danja> btw, the RDFish XSLTs I know about are on http://micromodels.org
  195. [20:09:23] <bewest> neat
  196. [20:09:24] <bewest> thanks
  197. [20:10:29] <danja> I think the likeliest scenario in the near future is lots of systems publish in microformats
  198. [20:11:05] <danja> some consumers consume/merge/store by translating to RDF model
  199. [20:12:55] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
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  202. [20:14:18] <mfbot> [[book-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=book-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4770 * HOWCOME * (+57) expanded on the uchapter
  203. [20:15:14] <mfbot> [[book-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=book-examples&diff=0&oldid=4771 * HOWCOME * (+34) added link to home page
  204. [20:21:35] * Frederic is now known as fred_coding
  205. [20:23:00] <pnhChris> is there any reason to hold back using hatom now? (on a small scale) .. how stable is it
  206. [20:23:17] * LTjake (n=brian@CPE0011506c8049-CM0013711405ec.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
  207. [20:26:31] <pnhChris> ah, just missed mr t.
  208. [20:28:42] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl081-246-197.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  209. [20:34:21] <RobertBachmann> pnhChris, how small is small scale?
  210. [20:34:51] <pnhChris> a few blogs.. nothing that can't be tweaked in the future when it comes down to it
  211. [20:35:02] <pnhChris> potentially in templates that might be more permanent
  212. [20:39:36] * Snowden (n=some@c-67-171-198-120.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  213. [20:43:22] <RobertBachmann> well you could try it out with one blog.
  214. [20:46:09] <pnhChris> well.. its not like adding it is gonna break something, just curious how stable the draft is
  215. [20:49:38] <bewest> yeah: what is left before pubilshing it in full?
  216. [20:54:42] * valmont (n=chrishol@pdpc/supporter/silver/valmont) Quit ()
  217. [21:00:26] * TantekC (n=Tantek@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  218. [21:01:42] <pnhChris> hola TantekC
  219. [21:02:38] <TantekC> greetings
  220. [21:02:44] * TantekC catches up on irc log archives
  221. [21:03:04] <TantekC> chris, hAtom is reasonably stable, you can check hatom-issues for outstanding issues
  222. [21:03:12] <pnhChris> was just gonna point you to my question in the logs
  223. [21:03:41] <TantekC> the biggest one I know of off the top of my head is potential renaming of class="content" due to high frequency existing usage of it per the Google markup studies
  224. [21:03:43] <pnhChris> yeah, i skimmed it, but wasn't sure on status of things
  225. [21:03:54] <pnhChris> that was my next question
  226. [21:04:03] <TantekC> that one is highly likely to change
  227. [21:04:10] <TantekC> the challenge is going to be picking a new name
  228. [21:04:20] <pnhChris> almost added that to the issues page, but figured it was discussed already
  229. [21:06:22] * danja just suggested hAtom inclusion on the WordPress list
  230. [21:07:04] <TantekC> danja, very cool
  231. [21:07:31] <pnhChris> i was just looking at the ease of implementation in textpattern myself
  232. [21:08:20] <pnhChris> which looks easy enough
  233. [21:08:28] <danja> I only recently joined the list, have been expecting it to come up in discussions for their next release
  234. [21:09:09] <danja> reminds me, I must have another go with the template rewriter
  235. [21:09:27] <TantekC> chris, i just realized that the "content" issue doesn't have documentation of the Google study
  236. [21:09:30] <TantekC> we need to add that
  237. [21:09:31] <danja> - http://www.trinityanne.com/tools/rewrite/
  238. [21:10:01] <danja> any known problems around the date/abbr thing?
  239. [21:11:06] * danja goes to look
  240. [21:13:07] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4772 * DannyAyers * (+17) Alternatives -
  241. [21:13:32] <danja> added a +1 to "hfeed"
  242. [21:13:46] <danja> retrospectively ;-)
  243. [21:14:27] <pnhChris> whats the thinking on use of author name in hatom? in most contexts we're looking at handles or a wide vairety of names that blogging tools probably aren't smart enough to break apart
  244. [21:14:58] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4773 * DannyAyers * (+21) +1 for "hentry"
  245. [21:15:04] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  246. [21:15:12] <pnhChris> there any good discussion out there?
  247. [21:15:22] <factoryjoe> yes
  248. [21:15:27] <factoryjoe> of course
  249. [21:15:28] <danja> atom spec?
  250. [21:15:30] <factoryjoe> ;)
  251. [21:15:36] <pnhChris> hehe
  252. [21:15:45] <danja> 2 years of bitter argument..?
  253. [21:15:53] <pnhChris> yes, that too
  254. [21:16:12] <pnhChris> more thinking about current convention/usage :P
  255. [21:16:22] * danja said "use foaf:Person" for about 1 month...
  256. [21:17:59] <pnhChris> i see simply address without a card can be used... or is used in one exmaple
  257. [21:18:23] <pnhChris> so forget i bought up the disturbing subject.. if you can.. heh
  258. [21:19:10] <pnhChris> .. .and i won't comment about the oddity of <address>Chris</address>
  259. [21:19:23] <pnhChris> oops
  260. [21:19:43] <danja> hmm, Atom has -
  261. [21:19:45] <danja> atomAuthor = element atom:author { atomPersonConstruct }
  262. [21:19:57] <danja> where -
  263. [21:19:58] <danja> atomPersonConstruct =
  264. [21:19:58] <danja> atomCommonAttributes,
  265. [21:19:58] <danja> (element atom:name { text }
  266. [21:19:58] <danja> & element atom:uri { atomUri }?
  267. [21:19:58] <danja> & element atom:email { atomEmailAddress }?
  268. [21:20:00] <danja> & extensionElement*)
  269. [21:20:07] <bewest> wouldn't a high frequency of the use of class="content" be a feature?
  270. [21:20:31] <pnhChris> bewest: not when its used as a container in a larger scope
  271. [21:20:41] <bewest> pnhChris: but that's speculation
  272. [21:20:48] <pnhChris> e.g. #header, #content, #footer
  273. [21:20:50] <danja> er, so person = name, uri, email, extn
  274. [21:21:11] <pnhChris> i could probably grep my uses of content in the past
  275. [21:21:30] <pnhChris> it surely hasn't been the text of a item on a page
  276. [21:21:32] <TantekC> Atom should have simply reused vCard, like we did with hCard
  277. [21:21:54] <TantekC> and in fact, that's what hAtom does
  278. [21:21:59] <danja> * danja said "use foaf:Person" for about 1 month...
  279. [21:22:05] <TantekC> danja, why?
  280. [21:22:10] <danja> reuse
  281. [21:22:15] <factoryjoe> ut oh
  282. [21:22:21] <TantekC> why reuse something that itself failed to reuse ?
  283. [21:22:26] <factoryjoe> here comes tantek's foafbat
  284. [21:23:10] <TantekC> insert fundamental gripe about 99% of standards process/groups out there - who only wish to reuse stuff they came up with, and ignore standards that other groups came up with.
  285. [21:23:13] <danja> foaf was already in use around syndication
  286. [21:23:21] <danja> vcard wasn't
  287. [21:23:33] <TantekC> danja, you didn't answer my question
  288. [21:23:50] <danja> foaf 100% compatible with RSS 1.0...
  289. [21:24:10] <TantekC> see above about groups who only reuse what they come up with
  290. [21:25:18] <danja> reuse of vcard would have meant creation of syndication-oriented mapping
  291. [21:25:34] <TantekC> this is exactly why we have the "reuse" principle in microformats, and why creating a *-formats document is an *explicit* requirement of the microformats process
  292. [21:25:57] <TantekC> danja, i'm surprised to hear an RDF person say "syndication-oriented" mapping
  293. [21:26:05] <TantekC> as the whole point is you don't need specialized mappings
  294. [21:26:16] <TantekC> you reuse generic building blocks
  295. [21:26:19] <danja> this was for Atom
  296. [21:27:43] * TantekC references http://www.intertwingly.net/wiki/pie/PaceBetterPersonElement - specifically the part at the bottom.
  297. [21:29:03] <danja> aye
  298. [21:29:27] <danja> but in the end they didn't go for foaf, hcard or vcard...
  299. [21:29:57] <danja> so now we have to close a couple of loops with hatom, atom/owl
  300. [21:30:29] <danja> praise be for xslt!
  301. [21:31:09] <mfbot> [[blog-description-format]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-description-format&diff=0&oldid=4774 * Tantek * (+2) Blog description format (background research) -
  302. [21:31:35] <mfbot> [[blog-description-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-description-examples&diff=0&oldid=4775 * Chris Messina * (+17) Overall Notes About Examples -
  303. [21:31:58] <TantekC> danja, yes, I know, but at least the atom person element can be described in terms of vCard/hCard vocabulary (AFAIK)
  304. [21:32:08] <TantekC> so it should be a fairly straightforward transform
  305. [21:32:29] <TantekC> with hAtom we use hCard directly, rather than adding a new "person" class name etc.
  306. [21:32:46] * TantekC is now known as tantek
  307. [21:32:52] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  308. [21:33:23] * tantek sets mode +o RobertBachmann
  309. [21:33:56] <tantek> Robert, if you are still around, check out blog-description-examples and blog-info-examples
  310. [21:35:52] <tantek> danja, for the same reason, I'm a little annoyed that Atom didn't simply reuse <link> from XHTML m12n and instead invented their own <link> element with a subset of the rel values
  311. [21:37:25] <pnhChris> is the universal parser accurate when it ocmes to hatom stuff?
  312. [21:37:28] <pnhChris> comes*
  313. [21:37:47] <mfbot> [[blog-info-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=4776 * Tantek * (+7)
  314. [21:38:26] <pnhChris> oh damn
  315. [21:38:32] * pnhChris kicks address
  316. [21:38:46] <pnhChris> any alternative to address
  317. [21:38:50] * TantekC (n=Tantek@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  318. [21:39:10] * tantek_ (n=tantek@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  319. [21:39:30] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) Quit ("leaving")
  320. [21:39:36] * RobertBachmann checks out blog-*
  321. [21:39:42] * pnhChris wonders how to get address into his h3 :/
  322. [21:42:13] * factoryj1e (n=cmessina@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  323. [21:44:49] <TantekC> pnhchris, what do you mean?
  324. [21:45:23] <pnhChris> well, address being a block element, doesn't work in the context i was trying to convert
  325. [21:45:33] <pnhChris> and in a number of other cases as well
  326. [21:45:39] <pnhChris> umm... example coming
  327. [21:46:08] <pnhChris> http://textpattern.net/wiki/index.php?title=Default_Forms#default
  328. [21:46:26] <pnhChris> that's the default template used for posts in textpattern
  329. [21:46:35] <TantekC> yes, the damn block/inline "level" elements in HTML is a royal pain and damn near useless.
  330. [21:46:35] <pnhChris> note the posted by nick inline in the h3
  331. [21:47:26] <pnhChris> if <address> is the only way in hatom to designate the poster then that template can't be directly converted
  332. [21:47:38] <mfbot> [[blog-info-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=4777 * Tantek * (+189)
  333. [21:48:36] <pnhChris> can be made to look the same (in some browsers) if I put the address after with display runing, but i still would want to associate the "by " with the poster name in some fashion and not the h3.. .sematically
  334. [21:48:46] <pnhChris> display run-in
  335. [21:50:04] <pnhChris> actually
  336. [21:50:05] <pnhChris> http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-examples
  337. [21:50:53] <pnhChris> 2nd example there is invalid, with the span outside the addrss
  338. [21:51:03] <RobertBachmann> pnhChris, you could also use class="author"
  339. [21:51:09] <TantekC> Using <address> is a should, not a must.
  340. [21:51:38] <pnhChris> ok
  341. [21:51:40] <pnhChris> good
  342. [21:51:43] <pnhChris> =)
  343. [21:51:57] * rawtext (n=tim@pool-68-160-9-178.bos.east.verizon.net) has joined #microformats
  344. [21:54:34] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  345. [21:54:55] * tantek (n=Tantek@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  346. [21:56:09] <mfbot> [[hatom-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-examples&diff=0&oldid=4778 * RobertBachmann * (+33) Transformation 2 - Replaced <address> with <span class="author">; was invalid XHTML
  347. [21:59:42] <KevinMarks> where's the current comments process page?
  348. [22:01:40] <RobertBachmann> http://microformats.org/wiki/comments-formats (?)
  349. [22:01:51] <KevinMarks> no brianstorming?
  350. [22:02:45] <KevinMarks> http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/index.php/2006/02/05/cocomment-semantically-forked-conversation/
  351. [22:03:37] <KevinMarks> cf http://www.cocomment.com/article/388
  352. [22:03:53] <KevinMarks> gtg'
  353. [22:05:06] <factoryj1e> tantek_: is there vcard to hcard converter?
  354. [22:05:11] * factoryj1e is now known as factoryjoe
  355. [22:06:01] * tantek_ is now known as tantek
  356. [22:06:03] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  357. [22:06:18] * tantek sets mode +o TantekC
  358. [22:06:19] * valmont (n=chrishol@h-69-3-63-82.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  359. [22:08:03] <tantek> chris, it should be quite easy to write
  360. [22:08:07] <factoryjoe> heh
  361. [22:08:07] <factoryjoe> ok
  362. [22:08:09] <factoryjoe> i'll do it
  363. [22:08:22] <tantek> i would start with an open source vCard parser
  364. [22:08:31] <tantek> I think there are plenty of those out there
  365. [22:08:35] <tantek> or rather...
  366. [22:08:43] <tantek> perhaps start with what you want the output to look like
  367. [22:08:57] <tantek> a nicely designed "Address Book" HTML page, marked up with hCard
  368. [22:09:05] <tantek> once you know what you want the end result to look like
  369. [22:09:33] <tantek> then it should be relatively easy to hook up a vCard parser to some (X)HTML+hCard code generation in that end format that you want
  370. [22:12:39] <pnhChris> ok... next hatom question... h# vs. class="headline"...
  371. [22:14:01] <pnhChris> what do you do with this... <h3><span class="headline"> some text</span> some other text</h3>
  372. [22:15:37] <pnhChris> (see previous textpattern template link or http://placenamehere.com/temp/hatomtest.html
  373. [22:16:27] <pnhChris> almost universal parser seems to be picking up the title as the entire text content of the h3
  374. [22:16:36] <RobertBachmann> factoryjoe: For Ruby http://vpim.rubyforge.org/, For C http://freshmeat.net/projects/libvc/, for Python http://www.nongnu.org/python-pdi/
  375. [22:17:32] <factoryjoe> RobertBachmann: nothing i can just upload something i export out of apple's address book?
  376. [22:17:47] <factoryjoe> i just wanted a quick and dirty "convert a vcard to hcard"
  377. [22:17:51] <factoryjoe> via a web upload UI
  378. [22:18:22] <TantekC> factoryjoe, that's a good summary description - add it to the /wiki/to-do page
  379. [22:18:47] <factoryjoe> ok
  380. [22:19:44] <TantekC> (would be nice if you could add the links that Robert listed to help folks get started with building it)
  381. [22:20:45] <factoryjoe> sure
  382. [22:23:56] <mfbot> [[to-do]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=4779 * Chris Messina * (+370) hCard -
  383. [22:29:57] <mfbot> [[to-do]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=4780 * RobertBachmann * (+64) hCard - Added PHP vcard parser
  384. [22:34:54] <pnhChris> no one has any insight on the hatom use i posted... parser error vs. mine
  385. [22:40:46] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  386. [22:43:57] <RobertBachmann> TantekC, regarding blog-description format: seems like a lot of the goals for this can be archived with hAtom.
  387. [22:43:57] <RobertBachmann> Blog name (e.g: "John Doe's Blog") == feed/title
  388. [22:43:57] <RobertBachmann> Blog URI (e.g: http://example.org/ ) == feed/id
  389. [22:43:57] <RobertBachmann> Lanuage used for the blog, read-able by machines (e.g: "en-US" or "de") == [xml:]lang
  390. [22:43:57] <RobertBachmann> Topics covered by the blog == feed/category
  391. [22:43:58] <RobertBachmann> A small logo image == feed/author hCard's logo
  392. [22:44:00] <RobertBachmann> A short description == perhaps atomSubtitle?
  393. [22:46:31] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2436P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit ("bedtime")
  394. [22:52:25] <tantek> Robert makes good points
  395. [22:52:32] <tantek> doh, just missed him before he went to bed
  396. [22:53:13] <danja> yup
  397. [22:54:13] <danja> but (h)Atom *should* work well for blog-description, blogs were the big motivator for Atom
  398. [22:55:02] <danja> btw, tantek, you going to Cannes?
  399. [22:55:18] <tantek> you mean Mandelieu?
  400. [22:56:05] <danja> yep (but I can't pronounce that ;-)
  401. [22:57:29] <mfbot> [[blog-description-formats]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/blog-description-formats * Tantek * (+348) created with the obvious - Atom
  402. [22:59:09] * tantek points danja to http://microformats.org/wiki/events
  403. [22:59:11] <tantek> ;)
  404. [23:01:29] <danja> ooh
  405. [23:02:08] <danja> I hadn't really thought out the Wednesday - it's not strict member-only is it?
  406. [23:07:20] <TantekC> no it is not
  407. [23:08:20] <mfbot> [[blog-description-brainstorming]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/blog-description-brainstorming * Tantek * (+1227) created from Robert Bachmann and KevinMarks's suggestions on IRC
  408. [23:09:57] <KevinMarks> I checked with tim bray, and atom autodiscovery is still intened to go RFC, just not had much attention on it recently
  409. [23:10:27] <TantekC> thanks Kevin, good to know
  410. [23:10:49] <TantekC> I encourage folks to add more thoughts to http://microformats.org/wiki/blog-description-brainstorming
  411. [23:14:19] * danja (i=DannyAye@host253-217.pool80104.interbusiness.it) Quit ("Ciao!")
  412. [23:19:57] <mfbot> [[blog-description-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-description-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4781 * Kevin Marks * (+55) Just use hAtom -
  413. [23:24:23] <mfbot> [[listing-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=listing-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4782 * Tantek * (+11)
  414. [23:27:52] <tantek> bbiab
  415. [23:27:54] * tantek (n=tantek@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) Quit ()
  416. [23:28:11] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) Quit ()
  417. [23:29:08] * TantekC (n=Tantek@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  418. [23:36:04] <KevinMarks> hm, I was gogint to look at bogrolling.com, but they'e borked
  419. [23:36:06] <KevinMarks> http://rpc.blogrolling.com/display.php?r=5b93177d7736682b3d127ebf1f89a38a
  420. [23:40:48] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit (Remote closed the connection)

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