IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-02-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:03:31] * valmont (n=chrishol@germany.pspdev.pas.earthlink.net) has joined #microformats
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  3. [00:12:28] <mfbot> [[resume-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4823 * RyanKing * (+202) Experience -
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  8. [00:24:24] <mfbot> [[resume-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4824 * RyanKing * (+173) added a sample publication
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  13. [01:23:22] <mfbot> [[resume-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4825 * RyanKing * (+1467) addeding object reference stuffs
  14. [01:24:02] <kingryan> btw, tantek and I have been working on a new layout for spec pages on the wiki. see http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume for an example of our ideas
  15. [01:24:06] <kingryan> I think its a bit cleaner
  16. [01:26:33] <mfbot> [[rel-directory]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-directory&diff=0&oldid=4826 * RyanKing * (+31) Abstract - cleaning up vebiage on rel attributes
  17. [01:27:14] <mfbot> [[rel-directory]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-directory&diff=0&oldid=4827 * RyanKing * (+0) Abstract - style consistency improvement
  18. [01:27:55] <mfbot> [[rel-directory]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-directory&diff=0&oldid=4828 * RyanKing * (+2) Scope -
  19. [01:28:26] <mfbot> [[rel-directory]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-directory&diff=0&oldid=4829 * RyanKing * (-2) rel="directory" -
  20. [01:28:57] <mfbot> [[rel-tag]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag&diff=0&oldid=4830 * RyanKing * (-12)
  21. [01:34:08] <mfbot> [[faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=4831 * RyanKing * (+360) <code>&lt;div&gt;</code> and <code>&lt;span&gt;</code> semantics -
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  25. [01:36:39] <mfbot> [[resume-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4832 * Tantek * (+379) hCard reference via object -
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  37. [03:50:02] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
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  40. [04:47:41] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
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  42. [04:59:11] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
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  49. [06:21:29] <jibot> Enric is a media Software Developer and Videoblogger located at http://www.cirne.com
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  56. [06:55:30] <jibot> KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs & syllepses & his blog is at http://epeus.blogspot.com & he explains how to get Creators paid at http://mediagora.com & originally from London, UK & living in Willow Glen, San Jose, CA & working at Technorati & is WikipediaWorthy & part of http://microformats.org & PST (UTC-8) & also in every time zone ever created, for KevinMarks is everpresent & the Podfather
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  62. [07:55:39] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  67. [09:06:56] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
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  82. [11:04:16] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  90. [13:04:21] <markmansour> does anyone have the link to the technorati page using x2v? I think it is somewhere in the kitchen, but I can't find it...
  91. [13:05:37] <markmansour> dont worry, found it... http://feeds.technorati.com/events/
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  93. [13:26:11] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
  94. [13:34:10] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  95. [13:34:10] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  99. [13:48:10] <_fil_> 'lo all
  100. [13:48:25] <_fil_> can someone validate this as hatom?
  101. [13:48:26] <_fil_> http://fil.rezo.net/spip/
  102. [13:49:19] <_fil_> and this too - http://fil.rezo.net/spip/article.php3?id_article=1
  103. [13:49:30] <_fil_> it has hcomment - forums
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  108. [14:48:55] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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  116. [16:24:10] <mfbot> [[job-listing-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=job-listing-examples&diff=0&oldid=4833 * MikeSiekkinen * (+282) Job Listing Examples -
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  120. [16:47:19] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: 01:00)
  121. [16:52:01] * bluesmoon (n=bluesmoo@nat-fw.bangalore.corp.yahoo.com) has joined #microformats
  122. [16:52:01] <jibot> bluesmoon is Philip from India & writes often on livejournal & sometimes about tech stuff on http://bluesmoon.blogspot.com & restaurants on http://bluesviews.blogspot.com & local food secrets on http://bluesfood.blogspot.com
  123. [16:52:38] * blake (n=blake@user-2ivf46h.dialup.mindspring.com) has joined #microformats
  124. [16:52:38] <jibot> blake is allegedly human. Blake, also known as Cortland M. Setlow, studies at swarthmore.edu and enjoys building things, exploring buildings, and physics. He currently sleeps during the day.
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  126. [16:56:01] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-faq&diff=0&oldid=4834 * Tantek * (+1536) answered one question and moved a q from -brainstorming to here
  127. [16:57:07] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4835 * Tantek * (-928)
  128. [16:58:43] <mfbot> [[xoxo]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo&diff=0&oldid=4836 * Tantek * (-7) changed simple XOXO XML pref mime to text/xml for better compat
  129. [16:59:19] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  130. [16:59:19] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  131. [17:12:51] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
  132. [17:12:51] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
  133. [17:20:06] * izo (n=izo@LNeuilly-152-23-33-39.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit ()
  134. [17:26:15] <mfbot> [[hash-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hash-examples&diff=0&oldid=4837 * Ant * (+111) Who offers MD5/SHA-1 checksums with software -
  135. [17:34:04] <pnhChris> hmm.. hatom says mark an entry's category as a tag... what do you do if an entry has both a category and more conventional tags? example: http://www.schussman.com/article/1247/covert-stylings
  136. [17:35:43] <pnhChris> (site not mine.. just the first example i ran across)
  137. [17:39:20] * limbo_beer is now known as limbo_
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  139. [17:44:11] <TantekC> chris, they are just different tag spaces. effectively they are both still tags.
  140. [17:47:04] * TantekC (n=Tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  141. [17:51:02] <pnhChris> just can't picture a case where i'd want them combined by the consuming application, that's all
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  150. [18:35:13] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: 01:00)
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  153. [18:41:03] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
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  156. [18:52:47] * tantek sets mode +o RobertBachmann
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  159. [19:09:17] * tantek sets mode +o TantekC
  160. [19:10:13] <Frederic> Hi TantekC
  161. [19:10:36] <tantek> chris, combining is what often already happens today in Technorati's Tag aggregation service: http://technorati.com/tags/ due to the fact that many blog publishing systems automatically put the "Category" into the RSS or Atom metadata.
  162. [19:10:44] <mfbot> [[blog-post-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-post-examples&diff=0&oldid=4838 * ChrisCasciano * (+1662) Other Stock Examples -
  163. [19:11:37] <pnhChris> i understand
  164. [19:11:44] <pnhChris> just seems lossy in some way
  165. [19:12:21] <tantek> it doesn't have to be, because they are often using different tag spaces - the bit in the URL before the tag term
  166. [19:12:36] <tantek> thus consuming applications *can* differentiate easily if they choose to
  167. [19:13:40] <tantek> hello Frederic
  168. [19:15:28] <pnhChris> nother hatom parsing q... is summary inside an hcalendar event supposed to be hidden from the parser when parsing the entry the event might be in.. or available.. i know theres some discussion on right use of terms, but wasn't clear on the opaqueness aspect
  169. [19:16:28] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@66.83.191.30.nw.nuvox.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]")
  170. [19:19:32] <Frederic> tantek: it's amusing how almost everytime I look for things related to CSS or XHTML I find docs saying "tanktek Çelik said this..." "Tantek wrote that..." "Tantek did that..." you're everywhere
  171. [19:20:52] <pnhChris> sounds like you're reading the wrong articles :P
  172. [19:21:36] * blake (n=blake@user-2ivf46h.dialup.mindspring.com) has joined #microformats
  173. [19:21:36] <jibot> blake is allegedly human. Blake, also known as Cortland M. Setlow, studies at swarthmore.edu and enjoys building things, exploring buildings, and physics. He currently sleeps during the day.
  174. [19:21:38] <Frederic> I read the ones I need, and I often find the solution of my problems
  175. [19:26:33] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) Quit ()
  176. [19:31:45] <RobertBachmann> pnhChris: Everything inside hAtom's "content" must be ignored by parsers
  177. [19:33:43] <pnhChris> RobertBachmann: works for me... just means i hit another parser bug
  178. [19:35:11] <RobertBachmann> which parser are you using?
  179. [19:35:24] <pnhChris> almost universal.....
  180. [19:35:39] <RobertBachmann> ah
  181. [19:37:59] <pnhChris> and my final question for now... " If an Entry has 0 Entry Author elements, the "logical Entry Author" is assumed to be the author of the XHTML page Atom requires at least one Author "
  182. [19:38:16] <pnhChris> if an entry does not have an author, how doe one go about designating the page author?
  183. [19:42:42] <RobertBachmann> class="author" within the feed.
  184. [19:43:24] <RobertBachmann> or <address> within (or outside of the) feed
  185. [19:45:13] <RobertBachmann> but this are just wild guesses. we better raise an issue for this.
  186. [19:47:56] * blake (n=blake@user-2ivf46h.dialup.mindspring.com) Quit ()
  187. [19:56:40] <qid> I think the preferred way of designating the author of a page is hCard with <address>
  188. [20:00:47] <pnhChris> yes.. i guess where i'm scratching my head with it is if it would need to be inside the hfeed element (but not in another entry) or anywhere at all in the document
  189. [20:01:11] * RobertBachmann currently writes the issue
  190. [20:04:49] <pnhChris> http://placenamehere.com/ -- though not currently hatom'd would be an example.. .but probably most blogs with a single author would be as well
  191. [20:04:54] <qid> I would assume it could be anywhere; designating the author of a page is independent of hAtom
  192. [20:05:17] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4839 * RobertBachmann * (+789) Added issue: Designating the page author
  193. [20:06:33] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4840 * RobertBachmann * (-1) Added issue: Designating the page author
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  196. [20:16:26] <qid> RobertBachmann: "try to use all <address>.s outside of the feed as authors", I am not sure if multiple <address> elements is correct or if it should be one address possibly containing multiple hCards
  197. [20:16:49] * premshree_ (n=premshre@nat-fw.bangalore.corp.yahoo.com) has joined #microformats
  198. [20:17:10] <qid> the example in the spec (http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/global.html#h-7.5.6) implies one <address> with multiple hCards is preferred over multiple <address>es
  199. [20:17:20] <RobertBachmann> qid, good point.
  200. [20:19:48] <qid> such a construct would be difficult to use, though, since <address> can only contain inline elements
  201. [20:22:08] <qid> pnhChris: didn't notice this until now... everything inside hAtom's "content" must be ignored by *the hAtom parser*
  202. [20:22:13] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) Quit ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
  203. [20:22:42] <qid> if you want to then take that data from the hAtom parser and feed it into an hCalendar parser or something, that's fine
  204. [20:23:36] <pnhChris> right... that's what robert was going for... i just hit a parser issue where my entry didn't have a summary, but the parser was picking up the hcalendar's summary as part of the entry
  205. [20:23:49] <qid> yep, that's a bug
  206. [20:24:07] * dmose (n=dmose@dsl081-050-187.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ("Leaving")
  207. [20:26:17] <qid> I think opaqueness issues like that are part of the reason people have argued against a "universal" parser; there's an increased chance data from one microformat will bleed into another
  208. [20:26:49] <pnhChris> but this is the opposite issue, no?
  209. [20:27:02] <qid> what do you mean?
  210. [20:27:14] <pnhChris> if a hatom parser knew nothing of hcalendar then it would always pick up the summary
  211. [20:27:22] <qid> no
  212. [20:27:46] <pnhChris> ?
  213. [20:27:49] <qid> the hAtom parser should not be parsing inside things that are supposed to be opaque
  214. [20:28:13] <pnhChris> i guess i'm not seeing where that has anything to do with universal parser or not
  215. [20:28:42] <qid> they're doing something naive like "search for elements with a class of 'summary'"
  216. [20:28:51] <pnhChris> particularly in this case... where the parser is specifically parsing for hatom
  217. [20:28:58] <qid> and wind up parsing inside the content, which is wrong
  218. [20:29:18] * pnhChris shrugs
  219. [20:29:56] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  220. [20:29:56] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  221. [20:30:07] <pnhChris> if the hcalendar was in the entry but outside the content.. wouldn't the parser still need to be smart enough to not read into the hcalender?
  222. [20:30:47] <qid> ...I'm not sure that's valid hAtom
  223. [20:30:51] <pnhChris> i mean, that's either an argument for not using summary for both, making sure the parser knows about hcalendar, or both
  224. [20:31:58] <qid> I should point out, from the wiki, "an Entry Summary element is identified by class="excerpt""
  225. [20:32:43] <Atamido> Given that hAtom was created after hCalendar, any parser for hAtom should cope with hCalendar.
  226. [20:33:07] <pnhChris> hmmm...
  227. [20:33:12] <qid> well you're heading down the road of "every microformat parser must understand every single microformat to parse any of them"
  228. [20:33:24] <pnhChris> then a combination of the older parser and the issues page threw me off
  229. [20:33:29] <Atamido> But yeah, sounds like qid is right and it isn't valid.
  230. [20:34:07] <pnhChris> yeah.. i see that
  231. [20:35:13] <pnhChris> maybe i'll just wait on this stuff till the parsers updated and i have time to comb through /all/ the docs
  232. [20:35:32] <pnhChris> i'm starting from the wrong end and its throwing me for a loop
  233. [20:36:21] * premshree_ (n=premshre@nat-fw.bangalore.corp.yahoo.com) Quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  234. [20:37:15] <qid> pnhChris: I would suggest making a post on the mailing list for this, and/or writing it up as an issue on hAtom-issues
  235. [20:39:36] <pnhChris> well.. if its not summary but exceprt, its simply a parser bug.. and the author already has stated its a bit behind the current spec
  236. [20:40:42] <RobertBachmann> but the parser also ignores the opcaity rules, that's a bug that should be reported
  237. [20:40:59] <pnhChris> the issues page could be clearer at defining what the current spec says tho
  238. [20:41:05] <pnhChris> yes
  239. [20:41:12] <qid> a construction like <hentry><microformatX><ambiguous element in microformatX and hAtom></microformatX><content>...</content></hentry> shouldn't be ambiguous
  240. [20:42:15] <qid> especially considering the propensity towards reusing names
  241. [20:43:46] <pnhChris> hmm
  242. [20:46:45] <pnhChris> i guess i'm on the fence there... both because of the implications on parsers (and keeping them up to date) and the reuse of common markup constructs.. but don't have time to hash it out... i'll shoot out another message to the parser's author today and worry about the rest later
  243. [21:00:55] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  244. [21:00:55] <jibot> KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs & syllepses & his blog is at http://epeus.blogspot.com & he explains how to get Creators paid at http://mediagora.com & originally from London, UK & living in Willow Glen, San Jose, CA & working at Technorati & is WikipediaWorthy & part of http://microformats.org & PST (UTC-8) & also in every time zone ever created, for KevinMarks is everpresent & the Podfather
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  250. [21:57:22] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4841 * ChrisCasciano * (+81) Entry Summary (atom:summary) -
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  255. [22:07:58] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4842 * ChrisCasciano * (+586) Entry Content (atom:content) -
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  260. [22:22:30] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=4843 * Mark Mansour * (+244) Life Lint parser addition
  261. [22:27:11] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples&diff=0&oldid=4844 * Mark Mansour * (+194) hCalendar examples -
  262. [22:29:07] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples&diff=0&oldid=4845 * Mark Mansour * (+124) hCalendar examples -
  263. [22:31:37] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit ("bbiab")
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  268. [23:02:20] * Enric (n=chatzill@c-67-188-10-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  269. [23:02:20] <jibot> Enric is a media Software Developer and Videoblogger located at http://www.cirne.com
  270. [23:10:04] <Snowden> where is jibot getting that info to spam? and why?
  271. [23:11:36] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  272. [23:11:36] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
  273. [23:15:20] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) Quit ("leaving")
  274. [23:21:19] <mfbot> [[hreview-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-feedback&diff=0&oldid=4846 * Rohit * (+222) General Comments -
  275. [23:27:37] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
  276. [23:27:37] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
  277. [23:32:47] <KevinMarks> Snowden: we tell it it
  278. [23:33:29] <KevinMarks> Imagine jibot as the chap by the door when you enter the royal ballroom who calls out your affiliations
  279. [23:42:05] * karlUshi (n=karl@tea06.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp) has joined #microformats
  280. [23:42:05] <jibot> karlUshi is karlcow
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