IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-02-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  46. [00:45:55] <mfbot> [[xfolk]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk&diff=0&oldid=4871 * RyanKing * (-7) Normative References - fixed rel-tag link
  47. [00:46:46] <mfbot> [[xfolk]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk&diff=0&oldid=4872 * RyanKing * (-110) Draft Specification - collapsed redundant editor and authors sections
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  50. [01:03:38] * Enric (n=chatzill@dhcp-6.danastreet.live555.com) has joined #microformats
  51. [01:03:38] <jibot> Enric is a media Software Developer and Videoblogger located at http://www.cirne.com
  52. [01:03:53] <mfbot> [[to-do]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=4873 * Tantek * (+214) Goals -
  53. [01:04:09] <mfbot> [[to-do]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=4874 * Tantek * (+16) Goals -
  54. [01:04:45] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=4875 * GrantYoung * (+122) added WWF-Australia examples
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  57. [01:07:31] <mfbot> [[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=4876 * GrantYoung * (+79) Added WWF-Australia example
  58. [01:12:38] <tantek> DanC, that's awesome. Now how about the plenary page? http://www.w3.org/2006/03/01-TechPlenAgenda.html
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  64. [01:45:08] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
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  69. [01:55:03] <jibot> Enric is a media Software Developer and Videoblogger located at http://www.cirne.com
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  73. [01:59:15] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
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  82. [03:18:02] <TantekC> greetings
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  84. [03:18:27] <jibot> karlUshi is karlcow
  85. [03:20:57] <TantekC> greetings
  86. [03:21:10] <TantekC> @SDForum Search Sig on Classifieds
  87. [03:21:26] <TantekC> do people mind if I take notes here from the SIG?
  88. [03:21:53] <_psychic_> go for it
  89. [03:22:05] <TantekC> first question was...
  90. [03:22:10] <TantekC> What are classifieds?
  91. [03:22:36] <TantekC> Google/Bindu - online advertising and classified advertising are becoming the same
  92. [03:22:55] <TantekC> Oodle/Craig - disagree. Very different kinds of things. Very different behaviors.
  93. [03:23:53] <TantekC> Bindu - when you type stuff into a search box, it should give you all the matching things, whether classified, or on sale somewhere etc.
  94. [03:27:25] <TantekC> Keith Teare: Classifieds online are growing very fast, whereas classifieds offline (newspapers) are not growing at all.
  95. [03:28:02] <TantekC> Craig: classifieds business model is shifting. Change is being held back by companies that are extremely scared. A lot of people make a lot of money from classifieds.
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  97. [03:29:21] <TantekC> Craig: I thought that Craigslist was going to be the forcing function for change. But outside the bay area, it's only really taken business from other classifieds.
  98. [03:29:34] <TantekC> Craig: Forcing function will probably be Google because of Adsense.
  99. [03:29:57] <TantekC> Craig: This is going to be a very big year in terms of classifieds, business model shifting.
  100. [03:30:15] <TantekC> Bindu: In general if you think about classifieds, the most important thing to focus on is local, and the second is social interaction.
  101. [03:32:40] * keithalexander (n=keithale@87.112.69.77.bbplus.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net) Quit ()
  102. [03:33:19] <TantekC> Craig: Are classifieds going to be free? Classifieds are already free. What you're paying for is delivery of leads.
  103. [03:33:42] <TantekC> Craig: Need to change mindset: how am I getting prospects rather than just eyeballs.
  104. [03:38:09] <TantekC> Bindu: How many vertical search engines are going to come out?
  105. [03:38:35] <TantekC> Bindu: How can you keep track of all these sites?
  106. [03:40:08] <TantekC> moderator: An entrypoint for the advertiser, and then a entrypoint for the consumer, a place where they start their process.
  107. [03:40:18] <TantekC> moderator: in some ways you are representing this...
  108. [03:40:45] <TantekC> Craig: When the internet becomes the marketplace, the platforms divide. if you are sell side focussed, you have to be vertically focussed. e.g. cars.com
  109. [03:41:02] <TantekC> Craig: buying platforms are horizontally organized.
  110. [03:43:15] <TantekC> Keith: Craig and I have agreed that we can take each others data and republish them.
  111. [03:43:28] <TantekC> Keith: We don't see each other as repositories of the data per se.
  112. [03:46:01] <TantekC> Keith: I think geocoding and tagging give you the ability to know where something is, and what it is. Publishing gives you the when.
  113. [03:46:21] <TantekC> Keith: Given those, it should be possible to filter the data with vertical search.
  114. [03:46:52] <TantekC> Keith: But there is a marketing problem, do people go to a generic place, or a specific place. E.g. digital photography and go to DPReview rather than Yahoo.
  115. [03:47:00] <TantekC> Might be an 80/20 problem.
  116. [03:47:18] <TantekC> ... /Keith
  117. [03:49:07] <TantekC> Keith: Everyone can become a publisher. As soon as the data is mobile.
  118. [03:49:33] <TantekC> Keith: The data becomes more valuable as it is distributed more.
  119. [03:50:53] <TantekC> moderator: I want to challenge that a little bit. If I have a blog, and I can put my comic book collection on that blog, and it can be picked up by another news reader, where is the business model?
  120. [03:51:05] <TantekC> Keith: I'm purposely not being specific, but you are forcing me to be.
  121. [03:51:15] <TantekC> [ note: URL about talk: http://searchsig.wordpress.com/2006/01/21/feb-8th-search-sig/ ]
  122. [03:52:19] <TantekC> Keith: Circuit City sends out a catalog. But if they sent out a feed, then they would get a lot more value by redistributing it. That is qualified leads. If in addition to that, I have 10k people who are looing for an LCD TV, and they have a query on Edgeio that as soon as one becomes available, that's monetizable.
  123. [03:52:43] <TantekC> moderator: that's a beautiful thing for circuit city, and for the consumer, but where is the business model?
  124. [03:52:54] <TantekC> Bindu: Let's suppose for a moment that we have Google Classifieds.
  125. [03:53:34] <TantekC> Bindu: Because a lot of people believe in the Google brand.
  126. [03:53:50] <TantekC> Bindu: People are not going to subscribe to the feeds of all the sellers, they will subscribe to a few only.
  127. [03:53:52] * karlUshi (n=karl@dhcp-246-59.mag.keio.ac.jp) Quit ("Mooooo in another space")
  128. [03:54:15] <TantekC> moderator: The consumer is not going to pay for anything in classifieds.
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  130. [03:56:52] <TantekC> Keith: Craigslist is free, and anyone can republish as long as they link back to Craigslist.
  131. [03:59:31] * cee-dub (n=cee-dub@adsl-71-132-1-222.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  132. [04:00:52] * TantekC is getting bored
  133. [04:01:03] * TantekC is getting distracted and switching to other apps.
  134. [04:02:41] <TantekC> Bindu: We are very much a consumer focused company.
  135. [04:03:08] <TantekC> Bindu: How do you organize that information so you can get to what you want quickly?
  136. [04:03:44] <TantekC> audience question: you have been mixing together many things. small ads, large ads.
  137. [04:06:15] <TantekC> ... in Germany they are called "small ads"
  138. [04:06:20] <TantekC> Keith: In England also.
  139. [04:11:13] <TantekC> Keith: Edgeio is founded on the premise that self-publishing will replace the need for centralized publishing.
  140. [04:11:49] <TantekC> Keith: ... that self-publishing will not limit your audience. The thing you publish will be aggregated into a centralized distribution system without you having to publish in a centralized system. So that eBays and Craigslists become unnecessary.
  141. [04:12:01] <TantekC> Keith: ... that is the vision that we have.
  142. [04:12:53] <TantekC> Dave McClure: Google is crawling other sites. But GoogleBase is different in that it is hosting the data. SimplyHired would like to index GoogleBase. Is GoogleBase going to stay a walled garden?
  143. [04:13:15] <TantekC> Bindu: We intend to make it crawlable. We do not want to be a walled garden.
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  145. [04:13:47] <TantekC> Bindu: Our whole point is, let's get all the world's information and organize it.
  146. [04:14:58] <TantekC> Bindu: We are not going to charge for the process of giving us content. The one thing that might happen and we might consider, is a nominal charge to combat spam.
  147. [04:15:22] <TantekC> Bindu: This is going to be content that you submit for Google for free and we will distribute to as many users as possible.
  148. [04:17:10] * bewest bouts confusion
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  150. [04:24:57] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  151. [04:32:13] * bear_dinner is now known as bear
  152. [04:36:51] <TantekC> first part of the session is done
  153. [04:36:56] <TantekC> they're doing demos now
  154. [04:37:00] <TantekC> note to self: always do demos first
  155. [04:37:21] <TantekC> Keith Teare demos Edgeio
  156. [04:37:29] <TantekC> http://edgeio.com
  157. [04:37:39] <TantekC> says to email matt@edgeio.com to get the alpha password
  158. [04:40:16] <TantekC> Craig demos Oodle
  159. [04:45:15] <TantekC> Craig pitches microformats!
  160. [04:45:28] <TantekC> to get the conversation going
  161. [04:45:41] <TantekC> we've put a proposal with research on microformats.org
  162. [04:46:16] <TantekC> for an hListing microformat
  163. [04:46:28] <TantekC> Wordpress plugin that supports the draft hListing
  164. [04:46:41] <TantekC> http://blog.oodle.com/
  165. [04:46:51] <TantekC> did a test hListing post earlier tonight
  166. [04:47:08] <TantekC> http://blog.oodle.com/?p=25
  167. [04:48:24] <TantekC> [ note from notetaker: experimentation in the wild is always a good thing, trying out microformata experiments to see how they work with real data is a good way to get experience, even with drafts or things that will change. ]
  168. [04:49:14] <TantekC> (applause for Craig)
  169. [04:49:25] <TantekC> Bindu demos Google Base
  170. [04:49:38] <TantekC> (someone asks for the font to be made bigger)
  171. [04:49:51] <TantekC> Bindu: GoogleBase is about three things
  172. [04:50:06] <TantekC> Bindu: 1. to complement how Google acquires content
  173. [04:50:18] <TantekC> Bindu: For individuals to post something who don't have a website of their own
  174. [04:50:26] <TantekC> Bindu: Also for small businesses to give us data with feeds
  175. [04:50:49] <TantekC> Bindu: We want to organize all the world's information, but some of this info is offline, or in databases
  176. [04:51:10] <TantekC> Bindu: GoogleBase is a place for you to come give us that content, and then Google decides what to do with that content.
  177. [04:51:21] <TantekC> Bindu: 2. It is taking and experimenting with a different type of search.
  178. [04:51:37] <TantekC> Bindu: This is a totally new kind of experiment. Trying this on base.
  179. [04:51:51] <TantekC> Bindu: 3rd thing is taking some of the data we have and pushing it into different properties.
  180. [04:52:31] <TantekC> Bindu: in terms of accepting content, all the content we accept can be, all the content we accept can be classified into an item type.
  181. [04:52:48] <TantekC> Bindu: We have all sorts of content types. We see recipes, we see protein databases.
  182. [04:53:26] <TantekC> Bindu: (pulls down drop down menu with about 15 items: Course Schedules, Events and Activities, Housing, Jobs, News and Articles, ... )
  183. [04:53:35] <TantekC> Bindu: for example I can upload a simple podcast
  184. [04:54:19] <TantekC> Bindu: We are looking at all the content submitted to base and looking to see how we can enhance our core search properties with content from base.
  185. [04:54:31] <TantekC> Bindu: Tagging. Get the content provider to tag their content.
  186. [04:55:06] <TantekC> Bindu: We took tagging one step further. Tagging is nothing but simple values. Why don't we take that one step further and have name value pairs. Anybody can create any number of attributes.
  187. [04:55:54] <TantekC> Bindu: The idea behind base is trying to get this data, which is not necessarily classified items, get this data into Google, and have it show up in other search results.
  188. [04:58:03] <TantekC> audience question: what will google do with this content?
  189. [04:58:09] <TantekC> Bindu: We need to make sure it is not spam.
  190. [04:58:29] <TantekC> Bindu: Some feeds into Froogle. Some feeds into Local. Some into different properties based on relevance and item type.
  191. [05:00:31] <TantekC> Bindu: Googlebase is a platform for us to get this data. Our next step is to create a bunch of applications on this data, and create features in our core properties which will take this data and surface it.
  192. [05:00:51] <TantekC> Bindu: The idea is how do you surface that data in the right place when people are looking for it.
  193. [05:09:54] <TantekC> Tantek asked Bindu if Google would work with the community to develop standards.
  194. [05:10:05] <TantekC> Bindu said they are working with XAPI for Atom extensions.
  195. [05:12:52] <limbo_> oooh
  196. [05:13:05] <limbo_> wrong window :)
  197. [05:14:14] * TantekC googles for XAPI
  198. [05:14:24] * TantekC fails to find a community that does standards.
  199. [05:15:05] <MarkB> XML DB API - not sure how you do Atom extensions with it
  200. [05:19:32] <TantekC> MarkB, agreed, I think she dodged my question.
  201. [05:20:11] <MarkB> they're at least participating in Atom... though not very actively any more IIRC
  202. [05:20:28] * TantekC (n=Tantek@207.47.10.130) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  203. [05:39:02] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-81-161-155.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
  204. [05:40:23] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  205. [06:04:13] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  206. [06:04:13] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  207. [06:20:41] * Snowden (n=some@c-67-171-198-120.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  208. [06:21:24] * Snowden (n=some@c-67-171-198-120.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  209. [06:47:47] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
  210. [06:50:08] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl081-240-149.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  211. [06:50:08] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  212. [06:50:18] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  213. [06:51:08] <limbo_> hey ryan, finally managed to get assaf's parser running
  214. [06:51:14] <kingryan> cool
  215. [06:51:14] <limbo_> i can read XFN now!
  216. [06:51:17] <kingryan> what was the problem?
  217. [06:51:24] <limbo_> there were many
  218. [06:51:29] <limbo_> mainly the lack of a clear howto
  219. [06:51:35] <kingryan> ah
  220. [06:51:48] <kingryan> the classic documentation bug
  221. [06:51:55] <limbo_> there's some nasty pitfalls...
  222. [06:51:57] <limbo_> yep
  223. [06:52:13] <limbo_> but it seems to be working ok
  224. [06:52:30] <limbo_> moving on to reading posts and parsing cite-rel
  225. [06:53:17] <limbo_> but it seems like the approach of using css selectors to read uformats is a good way to go
  226. [06:55:52] * blake (n=blake@dsl093-240-087.ral1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  227. [06:55:52] <jibot> blake is allegedly human. Blake, also known as Cortland M. Setlow, studies at swarthmore.edu and enjoys building things, exploring buildings, and physics. He currently sleeps during the day.
  228. [06:56:56] <limbo_> btw, i was looking for feed readers in ruby and found this guy: http://sporkmonger.com/projects/feedtools/
  229. [06:57:17] <limbo_> who seems to be working on something he calls microformat tools
  230. [06:57:17] <limbo_> http://rubyforge.org/projects/mftools/
  231. [06:57:37] <limbo_> not much info but who knows...
  232. [07:03:44] <kingryan> that name sounds familiar
  233. [07:03:57] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  234. [07:03:57] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  235. [07:04:21] <limbo_> dunno
  236. [07:09:35] * markmansour (n=markmans@dsl-202-173-156-87.vic.westnet.com.au) has joined #microformats
  237. [07:10:32] * izo (n=izo@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
  238. [07:19:57] <mfbot> [[resume-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4877 * RyanKing * (+280) added affiliation idea
  239. [07:32:02] * karlUshi (n=karl@dhcp-246-59.mag.keio.ac.jp) Quit ("Mooooo in another space")
  240. [07:39:28] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
  241. [07:41:31] * cee-dub (n=cee-dub@67.188.37.174) has joined #microformats
  242. [07:57:49] <mfbot> [[hresume]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=4878 * RyanKing * (+2568) added format
  243. [07:58:55] <mfbot> [[hresume]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=4879 * RyanKing * (+3581) added examples
  244. [08:02:08] * blake (n=blake@dsl093-240-087.ral1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
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  246. [08:25:21] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl081-246-197.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  247. [08:38:52] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl081-246-197.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  248. [08:47:21] <limbo_> http://hellonline.com/blog/?p=73
  249. [08:50:09] * kingryan is now known as kingryan|unconsc
  250. [08:50:29] * kingryan|unconsc is now known as ryan|unconscious
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  255. [09:03:20] * limbo_ is now known as limbo_zzz
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  258. [09:07:22] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  259. [09:07:22] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
  260. [09:08:14] * waglo (i=anehs78w@cogitateurs-agitateurs/waglo) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  264. [09:16:32] * waglo (i=acqj3768@cogitateurs-agitateurs/waglo) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  266. [09:20:33] * waglo (i=f5akthes@cogitateurs-agitateurs/waglo) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  268. [09:24:35] * waglo (i=aa86w0cf@cogitateurs-agitateurs/waglo) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  269. [09:25:11] * waglo (i=psos178w@cogitateurs-agitateurs/waglo) has joined #microformats
  270. [09:26:00] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) has joined #microformats
  271. [09:26:00] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  272. [09:29:14] * waglo (i=psos178w@cogitateurs-agitateurs/waglo) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  273. [09:29:29] <trovster> http://www.multipack.co.uk/members/ what is wrong with the vcards on this page/
  274. [09:29:48] * waglo (i=ymhavjm9@cogitateurs-agitateurs/waglo) has joined #microformats
  275. [09:33:15] * waglo (i=ymhavjm9@cogitateurs-agitateurs/waglo) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  289. [09:58:23] * cee-dub is now known as cee-dub|zzzzzz
  290. [10:16:03] * limbo_zzz (i=limbo@dsl081-055-160.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  291. [10:44:12] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
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  295. [12:38:03] * karlUshi (n=karl@sd1u209254.ocv.ne.jp) has joined #microformats
  296. [12:38:03] <jibot> karlUshi is karlcow
  297. [12:46:26] * cbeeth (n=cbeeth@194.183.239.133) has joined #microformats
  298. [12:47:32] * izo (n=izo@efas.allhost.fupl.asso.fr) has joined #microformats
  299. [13:21:14] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  300. [13:21:14] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
  301. [13:26:56] * davecardwell (n=dave@moose.davecardwell.co.uk) Quit ("leaving")
  302. [13:34:44] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  303. [13:34:44] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
  304. [13:42:46] <trovster> Anyone 'bout? Got an vcard problem (with a validator)
  305. [13:48:24] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@66.83.191.30.nw.nuvox.net) has joined #microformats
  306. [14:17:17] * danja (i=DannyAye@host174-220.pool80104.interbusiness.it) has joined #microformats
  307. [14:24:19] * markmansour (n=markmans@dsl-202-173-156-87.vic.westnet.com.au) Quit ()
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  310. [15:07:32] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  311. [15:07:32] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  312. [15:13:14] * waglo (i=4j7m5900@cogitateurs-agitateurs/waglo) has joined #microformats
  313. [15:13:14] <jibot> waglo is a supybot - ~[list|help] for more info. and also belong to oqp
  314. [15:22:52] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  315. [15:22:52] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  316. [15:30:15] * blake (n=blake@alumnicc1.alumni.unc.edu) has joined #microformats
  317. [15:30:16] <jibot> blake is allegedly human. Blake, also known as Cortland M. Setlow, studies at swarthmore.edu and enjoys building things, exploring buildings, and physics. He currently sleeps during the day.
  318. [15:31:52] * hlb (i=hlb@CCCA.NCTU.edu.tw) has left #microformats
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  332. [17:18:20] * limbo_zzz is now known as limbo__
  333. [17:18:22] * limbo__ is now known as limbo_
  334. [17:22:35] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  335. [17:22:35] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  336. [17:22:54] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) Quit ()
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  338. [17:48:34] * TantekC (n=Tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  339. [17:49:50] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
  340. [17:49:51] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
  341. [17:51:01] <trovster> Anyone 'bout? Got an vcard problem (with a validator)
  342. [17:51:24] <TantekC> hello trovster
  343. [17:51:32] <TantekC> did you get my IRC last night
  344. [17:55:48] <trovster> No... I wasn't online yesterday, I was at a conference in London!
  345. [17:58:32] <trovster> http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/get-vcard.php?uri=http%3A//www.multipack.co.uk/members/ "no FN property was found" ...
  346. [17:59:41] <trovster> <li class="vcard"><a href="http://www.trovster.com" class="fn url">Trevor Morris</a></li> -- clearly have FN and URL
  347. [18:13:52] * ryan|unconscious (n=kingryan@dsl081-240-149.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  348. [18:15:56] <TantekC> trovster
  349. [18:16:00] <TantekC> this hCard:
  350. [18:16:01] <TantekC> <dl class="vcard vevent">
  351. [18:16:03] <TantekC> has no fn
  352. [18:19:48] <trovster> Aha, thanks, fixed.
  353. [18:20:07] <TantekC> also, you have naked "fn"s
  354. [18:20:26] <TantekC> which should be inside something with class name of "vcard"
  355. [18:20:41] <TantekC> e.g. this: <li class="fn">Oli Walker</li>
  356. [18:20:42] <TantekC> should be
  357. [18:20:56] <TantekC> <li class="vcard"><span class="fn">Oli Walker</span></li>
  358. [18:21:11] <trovster> Ok, I understand that. But it's a bit pointless for just a name, isn't it?
  359. [18:23:58] <pnhChris> is there any danger in using fn outside of a microformat context?
  360. [18:24:28] <pnhChris> (or more likely, summary, content, etc.)
  361. [18:25:19] <trovster> I don't see why... I'm using it outside whereever the company name is mentioned.
  362. [18:29:00] * premshree_ (n=premshre@nat-fw.bangalore.corp.yahoo.com) has joined #microformats
  363. [18:31:22] * cbeeth (n=cbeeth@194.183.239.133) Quit ()
  364. [18:37:43] <TantekC> trovster, not pointless, in that often times you get other information about the person from other channels, private channels, etc.
  365. [18:38:06] <TantekC> plus what you are doing is semantically marking up that string of text as a "person"
  366. [18:38:20] <trovster> Ok. I'll add it.
  367. [18:38:53] <TantekC> pnhChris, it depends. if you set proper context with class names, it shouldn't be a problem.
  368. [18:39:05] <TantekC> note that "fn" is being reused for the "name" field in other microformats
  369. [18:39:22] <TantekC> and will probably see more re-use in the future in microformats like media-info, citation, blog-info etc.
  370. [18:40:28] <trovster> I create that list with this > http://pastebin.com/546997
  371. [18:44:50] * bear is now known as bear_mtg
  372. [18:47:06] * blake (n=blake@alumnicc1.alumni.unc.edu) Quit (Connection timed out)
  373. [18:49:38] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit ()
  374. [18:51:49] <mfbot> [[rel-tag-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-issues&diff=0&oldid=4880 * JonathanFeinberg * (+662)
  375. [18:55:54] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl081-240-149.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  376. [18:55:54] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  377. [18:55:54] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  378. [18:59:30] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  379. [19:02:30] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl081-240-149.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  380. [19:07:21] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  381. [19:07:21] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
  382. [19:11:43] * bear_mtg is now known as bear
  383. [19:13:23] * bkdelong_ (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  384. [19:13:30] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@N111P012.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  385. [19:13:30] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: 01:00)
  386. [19:13:53] * kingryan (n=kingryan@138.202.171.107) has joined #microformats
  387. [19:13:53] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  388. [19:14:10] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  389. [19:14:10] <mfbot> [[rel-tag-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-issues&diff=0&oldid=4881 * Tantek * (+893) rejected a bunch of previously discussed issues.
  390. [19:14:55] * TantekC (n=Tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ("via the nearest exit")
  391. [19:15:33] * bear is now known as bear_mtg
  392. [19:16:27] * premshree_ (n=premshre@nat-fw.bangalore.corp.yahoo.com) Quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  393. [19:16:40] * bear_mtg is now known as bear_lunch
  394. [19:20:05] * bear_lunch is now known as bear
  395. [19:21:48] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  396. [19:22:10] * bear_afk is now known as bear
  397. [19:31:53] * bear is now known as bear_lunch
  398. [19:32:59] <trovster> Is <li class="vcard fn">Dominic Gonsalves</li> wrong?
  399. [19:33:22] <mfbot> [[hash-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hash-examples&diff=0&oldid=4882 * Ant * (+109) Real-World Examples -
  400. [19:33:53] <RobertBachmann> yes, AFAIK
  401. [19:34:13] <RobertBachmann> you may not collapse the root class name (vcard) with sub-class names
  402. [19:34:18] * RobertBachmann checks the spec
  403. [19:37:38] <mfbot> [[rel-tag-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-feedback&diff=0&oldid=4883 * JonathanFeinberg * (+494) General Comments -
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  407. [19:52:13] <RobertBachmann> trovsert, have a look at http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-parsing#finding_hCard_properties
  408. [19:52:24] <RobertBachmann> trovster*
  409. [19:57:05] <trovster> So that's a no :S hmm. I'll remove them then.
  410. [20:01:12] <RobertBachmann> write it like this <li class="vcard"><span class="fn">Dominic Gonsalves</span></li>
  411. [20:02:33] <trovster> No point. I originally just had <li class="fn"> but tantek said to add vcard.
  412. [20:02:39] <trovster> I'll add them when/if they provide a URL
  413. [20:04:12] <trovster> I use a function to generate it, I can add the span in manually, I'd rather not
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  416. [20:20:50] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
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  423. [20:55:09] <jibot> blake is allegedly human. Blake, also known as Cortland M. Setlow, studies at swarthmore.edu and enjoys building things, exploring buildings, and physics. He currently sleeps during the day.
  424. [21:00:29] * premshree_ (n=premshre@nat-fw.bangalore.corp.yahoo.com) Quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
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  426. [21:05:25] * kingryan (n=kingryan@138.202.171.107) Quit ()
  427. [21:09:37] <mfbot> [[faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=4884 * Brian * (+414) Added FAQ about indicating the presence of a microformat
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  429. [21:11:01] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
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  432. [21:21:08] <mfbot> [[ap-feedback]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/ap-feedback * Tantek * (+1147)
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  435. [21:26:14] <mfbot> [[rel-tag-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-issues&diff=0&oldid=4885 * Robert Yates * (+903)
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  440. [21:37:28] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
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  458. [23:15:33] <mfbot> [[faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=4886 * Tantek * (+111)
  459. [23:21:14] <mfbot> [[rel-tag-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-issues&diff=0&oldid=4887 * RyanKing * (+109)
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  465. [23:43:44] <jibot> karlUshi is karlcow
  466. [23:47:36] <tantek> hello Karl
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  471. [23:57:16] <mfbot> [[rel-tag-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-issues&diff=0&oldid=4888 * Robert Yates * (+47)

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